Why Independent Multi Subwoofer Outputs Are Needed in AV Receivers

[@JulioCSolar]

Gene, It feels like I'm following your channel since Colombus got here. You have been so helpful man and I appreciate that. Now.... your channel has been getting more and more technical and despite understanding the terms, I don't know how to implement them. For instance: time align. It'd be quite useful if you do an in-depth tutorial about the whole thing. The whole nine yards from start to finish. I tell you: it'd be a hit. I know it's a lot of work but your audience will appreciate that. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and passion; without you, my system would never sound the way it does, but I feel that I need to do more, however, I'm kinda stuck. Pd: I have two subs and a miniDSP for my 2 channels system. My receiver is a Yamaha RX A3070 with only one sub out. I'm kinda familiar with miniDSP but I am not an expert.

[@bric7244]

Yes I second this !

[@nodave77]

I would also love audioholics perspective. I've watched a number of other channels explain it, but would love AH video on it.

[@MattyDante]

I personally would also like to see more "shorts" as well. I am trying to make my way through the acoustical treatment webinar video series but I don't always have time to listen to hours of material that goes completely over my head. A nice 2-10 minute video to gain my bearings with broad strokes would be very useful when I am watching the lengthier videos.

[@tonygutermuth9347]

I have four SVS subwoofers, one in each corner of the theater. My Marantanz Pre/Pro has two subwoofer outputs. Since the main seating position is not centered in the room, for obvious reasons, the front subs are one distance and the rear another. The two subwoofer outputs allow for good time alignment. I measure with REW and use the onboard EQ of the subs to get each subwoofer close to target, then run the AutoEQ of the marantz. I had run a single JL Audio F113 subwoofer previously, which is a fantastic subwoofer. However, the performance of multiple subwoofers is so much more linear since it helps to deal with room modes that a single subwoofer often can't impact.

[@roccobruno8027]

I'm currently running two subwoofers connected to two independent subwoofer inputs. The difference over my old setup running from two parallel inputs is night and day. The bass is deeper, tighter and far more articulate allowing me to discern bass information that I simply couldn't from my old setup.

[@timbathras2660]

I’m just a 2-channel stereo guy, but I run two subs. They’re SVS SB-2000 Pros and I use their built in DSP. I’ve had them for just over two years now and still love ‘em.

[@doublet147]

I've got the 4700h and I'm using a minidsp with 4 subs. My HT is in the basement and has a kitchen and small sitting area off to the side. It seats 6, and with the use of REW & the minidsp, I've been able to get outstanding results for 4 seats. I need to add some room treatments because of the open floor plan (kitchen). After, I hope to get the same response for all 6 seats. It's amazing the results you can get with proper time alignment on multiple subs.

[@tonyb3350]

I'm running 4 subs off 2 independent outputs. Output 1 has a pair of subs up front equal distance from MLP. 2nd sub output has another pair of subs on either side of the couch, also equal distance from MLP. I was still getting cancelation. My sub enclosures are pretty big and I actually took some advice from one of yalls videos. I flipped the front subs so the cone and port is firing up, with the port closer to the wall. This fixed my cancelation issues. Thanks Audioholics for the tip. 👍

[@cafiveohsrockbandremix9254]

Currently running three subs off a MiniDSP 2x4HD. Time alignment took a bit of time, but the results are pretty impressive. I'd love to see you make a video about time aligning subs to mains using the spectrograph feature of REW. Also, for home theater I've seen some say that it's best to align the sub to the center channel...do you think this is true?

[@scott1063]

I’m using the same DSP with three subs. However, instead of playing with REW via trial and error I used Multi-Sub Optimizer. It works great. Yes, there is some trial and error but the predicted results are pretty close to measured. I started with four subs, two new identical PSA 15” ported, plus two older and also different subs. One of those subs could not cut it and never helped so it was discarded. I ended up using the fourth channel on the sub section of the GoldenEar Towers and yes, that even helped.

[@cafiveohsrockbandremix9254]

@@scott1063 I've heard of MSO but don't really know how to use it. How many measurements did you take for import into MSO? If I'm following correctly, you need measurements for each sub at multiple seating positions, right?

[@bubblehead5394]

Denon X6700H, dual PB-3000s, REW, UMIK-1, and a laptop. Currently looking through the Audioholics forum and this youtube channel to figure out how to set this all up for aome serious bass in my room. Thanks!

[@musicman8270]

My Denon had two Sub outs, but they shared settings. My new Basx MC1 has two Sub outputs (2 balanced and unbalanced) and you can do various settings independent of each other although they have the same signal, a big improvement

[@mikeschramm]

I’m running two PB-2000 Pros with an Onkyo TXRZ840. The Onkyo has parallel subs outs, so I added a miniDSP 2x4 HD to get everything time aligned and PEQed.

[@peppino5413]

I have a subwoofer for each of my 5 high pass filter cut off connected speakers.... 4 x Sunfire True Subwoofer Mk II and one Whise 15" sub for the custom centre channel speaker. Bass is deep , tight and cleaner now.Very happy with time alignment and phase balance optimised for prime listening position.It means all the subs don't have to run hard and remain well within their linear operating parameters extending life of all components too.Star Wars Ep 1 , The Pod race is better than when I first experienced it at the cinema....Peter Gunn theme is very impressive as are female vocals....Predator mini gun scene is a true gut busting experience now that all the tonal balances are flat down to 10Hz.I got rid of the 95Hz suck out with improved home furnishings and foam absorbing bass traps in the corners of the room.LFE's are true to life and natural sounding, complimenting my two Duntech Soverign front speakers which have all Dynaudio drivers and custom Duntech centre channel speaker.Those Sunfire Subs are real REL killers for sure....next best subs are SVS and JlAudio Fathom.

[@GunnyPhillips]

Great video. Thanks Gene. I have dual SVS SB4000's and a Marantz Pre Pro which has independent sub controls. I'll probably still be adding a MiniDSP soon to compensate for Audyssey's shortcomings and the limited built in PEQ of the subs.

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Positive step forward.

[@B17B25guy]

Thank you for a most meaningful and insightful presentation. I run a single JL Audio Fathom 112V2 sub, utilizing a McIntosh MX-122. It is phase aligned using the JL Audio adjusting phase alignment instructions. It resides abeam my LF main (Sonus Faber Grand Piano). Moreover, the JL Audio company subwoofer guru (I can't recall his name at this moment) was incredibly helpful providing additional tips over the phone too.

[@coachgordonpalmer]

Nice video. I have an Arcam AVR20 which has up to 4 sub outputs. I have 3 SVS PB3000 and use a Minidsp 2x4 HD to a single output on the Arcam. I had a trial of the Dirac bass control option but couldn’t hear any improvement over Minidsp approach. For EQ ing the three subs across 4seats in two rows I have found MSO (multi sub optimiser) to give excellent results..removes all the trial and error. Eq the seats flat and let Dirac apply a house curve.

[@tvolkman88]

What is MSO? A feature of mini dsp or something entirely separate?

[@tvolkman88]

@@Antibackgroundnoise mini dsp 2x4HD is only unbalanced outs so you'd have to use the LFE in on the sub

[@tvolkman88]

@@Antibackgroundnoise for bass, right now I have 1 JTR RS1. My old system had (2) SVS PB12-NSD that aren't being used right now. I have on order the 2nd RS1 which I'll pick up in April. For now, my Emotiva XMC-1 w/ Dirac Live is all I'm using for bass management. Once the 2nd RS1 arrives, I'll get the mini dsp and microphone to use all 4 subs. I'll probably put a steep high pass filter on the SVS subs at around 25hz so they only fill nulls in the 30-120hz range. I'll move my crossover up from 80hz to 120hz since I can avoid localization with quad subs and all the subs have good response up to 160hz.

[@tvolkman88]

@@Antibackgroundnoise probably 8-10hrs a week. About 80% casual tv/movies 20% 2 channel music. The RS1 is great for both, but it wouldn't be enough for deep bass junkies.

[@andreemilsen369]

Great video Gene🤘 I am waiting for the Denon AVC-X3700H to get back in stock (ordered it). I use miniDSP to, and it is night and day difference. Have 3 subs now, front corners (identical subs), smaler one in center of backwall. Works great with 4 towers in large and extra bass😊

[@brandobond]

I just replaced my B&W 10" sealed sub (which sounded great for what it was) with two DIY sealed subs, each with dual 18" drivers. So far I have not been impressed with how my Denon 3700h (independent sub outputs) has been handling the two subs. It doesn't sound any better then before except for when I play something with crazy amounts of infrasonic sound. I'm thinking there is some cancellation happening between the two subs (maybe I need to change the phase on the rear sub?). Anyways, I ordered a miniDSP 2x4HD and a UMIK1 and they are arriving Monday. Hopefully I can get everything dialed in perfectly and get the tight, even, impactful bass I'm looking for.

[@godamongmen2]

Same happened with one of my customers. He has a pair of DB1D subwoofers from B&W and we did the subwoofer crawl to place both of them. It sounded awesome, but his AV processor calibrates them both independently and it ruined everything

[@BoredSilly666]

I have 2 SVS PB2000's in a 7.2.4 set up. Denon X6500H with Dual independent sub out. I use time align with REW and a Umik to measure what happens adding extra delay and also use it to Integrate with my front left mains. I found adding extra delay to a sub can help with a better frequency response after learning about it online. I thought about getting a Minidsp but I have also heavily treated my room so am just learning PEQ to help with a bit of a 7-8db rise 20 - 40hz using the Audyssey App.

[@Harald-MacGerhard]

Great things Gene….. I got 4 subwoofers in stack of two on each side, each stacked subs are parallelled. for bass management with time aligning I am using Trinnov that measures and calculates correct time alignment as well as phase alignment. The Trinnov has stereo sub output. I couldn’t be happier. (This is a stereo only setup)

[@raphaelmeillat8527]

Your videos are always so helpful Gene! Thanks for doing this!

[@JesusMartinez-mk6fc]

Excellent video Gene! A concise video packed with all the relevant information that is very well explained with supporting examples.

[@peterwilson3108]

Excellent video and totally agree Gene. I have an Arcam AV40 processor with 4 sub outputs and I’m running 4 REL subs and after running Dirac Live Bass Control the integration of my subs is very impressive. Would love to see a review of the AV40 and especially Dirac Live Bass Control as it really helped my system integration. Thanks again Gene from here in the UK 👍🏻

[@toddlewis6683]

I have Yamaha A3080 with 2 SVS subs. Have never looked if the outputs are independent. Speaker configuration has separate phase settings for each sub, so I assume they are independent.

[@FOH3663]

Be mindful, in addition to time domain, adjusting low pass freqs individually is another powerful tool in one's quiver. It's remarkable how effective it can alter the complex summation.

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Especially bearing mind if you use a different pair of subs for the rears and they have different chractureistics...... 👍🏻

[@Antonnn1111]

A nice easy trick for this if you don’t have a mini dsp or independent sub outs is to do the sub crawl with one sub, place it, then do a sub crawl again with that one sub playing, wherever you have a huge null, place the 2nd sub. This will provide you with super even room response, another thing you can do is place the 2nd subwoofer in a room mode to get even boomier louder bass if that’s what you choose. Still, time aligning and phase shifting will provide superior results

[@Superficial_david]

I have many subs so I bought a dayton dsp-408 and although I haven’t calibrated it properly I’m happy with the unit so far. There is a very small amount of hum so I used an old radio shack ground loop isolator and 👍. I miss radio shack.

[@bene1205]

I've got one sub with a mini dsp. Got lucky and all my 6 seats are in close proximity to a wall under a roof. Due to this I've got no bigger destructive interferences with the right subwoofer position but tons of boundary gain. That combined with the mini dsp ironing out some of the boundary gain gives me a very smooth response. Even down to 20 hz my 500w xtz does not struggle because the level had to be reduced by 15-25 db boost the room gives me across the board. Got really lucky with my room:)

[@adrianegowski5012]

Great video. Time alignment is underestimated. Thanks to these settings, even with Ypao (yamaha 803d) and SVS sub i have got excellent results. I got the feeling like DSP inside SVS causes audible delay. Audible = crossing at 100 or more Hz causes audible problems with phase, they are not adding anymore. Additionally Yamahas DSP seems to be bad at controlling delay introduced by itself. One sub with tower speakers and a lot of fun... Like week of measuring and changing settings :-) Now Anthem STR and it's even more fun😊

[@rmangoba]

I have a Marantz AV7705 processor, which has 2 independent subwoofer outputs. I have four subwoofers, so I use Y adapters with the 2 subwoofer outputs of the Marantz. I used REW and a UMIK-1 mic to adjust the gain and determine the best positions for the 4 subwoofers. Then, I used Audyssey to calibrate my system. I think I can further improve my system's bass performance. I was thinking of maybe getting a miniDSP 2x4 HD, although I plan on upgrading my Marantz AV7705 to one of the 2022 Marantz or Denon models that have 4 independent subwoofers. My question is: if I upgrade to one of the new Denon or Marantz models, is a miniDSP worthwhile or offer a big enough improvement to make it worth the trouble of integrating with Audyssey (and maybe in the future Dirac with future Denon/Marantz firmware)? Having to deal with miniDSP AND Audyssey (or Dirac) is quite a bit more work than just one calibration system (Audyssey or Dirac).

[@WTBlackwolf]

Even if my sr8012 have two sub outputs I preferred the handling of the minidsp for a precise time alignment and peq. Rew and umik1 is a great set of tools the improvements were drastic. So totally agree with you gene ;)

[@flageborg]

Most people have problems with multiple subs when subs are mounted at the same level(floor) either side by side or in different positions in their room. For best performance subs are mounted on top of each other to fill the space between the floor and the ceiling. My towers in front are 2,38 meter high and is made by 4 independent subwoofers and dialed in with 2 independent outputs from my AVR.

[@miikasuominen3845]

I have 2x12" self-made subwoofers (Peerless elements). And just bought Denon AVC-X4700h, so it has a separated outputs for 2 subwoofers.

[@jrep88]

I have a Marantz with two sub outputs but use a 2x4HD because I feel it is easier to use. Independent delays and trims are great but would be beneficial if the two sub outputs had separate filters.

[@rexdeshon5274]

Do you use both outputs from amp?

[@nobs3075]

I just put a new system together. I have a Denon 6700 with the dual independent outputs. I purchased a pair of SVS PB-1000 pros. I also have an old Kenwood 120 watt sub that I updated with a new compatible 10" MYX Audio speaker. The old one's suspension surround deteriorated, so I repaced it a few years ago. I had considered the SB-100s, but I liked the idea of using the subs for both music and movies and figured I had more flexibility with the more expensive ported subs. I even started having buyer's regret that I did not get the 2000s, but when I reflected that my Kenwood scared the bejesus out of me when watching a movie I figure I will do fine with what I have. For some reason I did not notice until I upgraded to the SVS's that my Kenwood; for the last year, has been sitting on a hardwood floor. It had no feet. LOL I think it is why I purchased new subs; all that vibration that I thought was just the new home and an aging sub. Anyway, I also purchased the larger sound dampening feet that is offered for the SVS's. I took one set of the cone feet and added it to Kenwood, cleaned it up and installed some new fabric to the front. It now sounds and looks new. So, I did not like SVS's offering for the wireless setup, so I purchased the subwoofer setup from Emotiva. I also purchased and extra receiver. I do wish my AVR had three or four independent sub outs, but it does not. I plugged one of the 1000s directly into the Denon, but the other SVS and the Kenwood I tied together via the wireless. Some might say that is stupid, but after watching enough videos I liked the idea of having a crisper 10" sub, and having three subs in the large room. I talked with SVS and they said they would be happy to help with the setup. I just got everything in place and ran the Audessy setup, which required me to turn down the setup/volume to under 78db. While it does sound great, I can't say it is better one way or the other. I did enjoy adjusting the volume up a bit to listen to some bassy music. I DID notice a meteoric difference in quality bass. I can't imagine 2000s on up. At 62 my hearing has decreased. I had a hearing test recently and was told my higher frequency hearing had diminished. I think it has to do with drowning out the wife of 30 plus years. I have six tweeters, not including the wife, that takes care of that. I'm not sure if I need to contact SVS to dial in the subs just yet, if at all for what I use them for. Thoughts?

[@NakeanWickliff]

You will never know unless you measure. All you need is $100 Umik, A laptop and Free are REW software. Once you actually know what’s happening in your room a whole New World will open up as far as bass is concerned. And I don’t mean booming, buzzing, bass but a true foundation in both music and movie tracks. Once you have laid the last octaves out evenly, everything else is icing on the cake.

[@nobs3075]

@@NakeanWickliff Thanks for the advice.

[@ubza1234]

I'm looking at getting the Anthem AVM 70 Which I'm very excited about 😁

[@erod9088]

With a miniDSP, it's moot, as you say. Problem solved. Wonderful tools at a reasonable price. Better than DLBC in my testing.

[@lio1234234]

100% agree this is the way to go. Instead of 2 individual sub outs, you have 4. Which is much more optimal anyways!

[@rickdiculuss6049]

Have 4 subs, calibrated with a mini dsp! Have them sounding pretty great rite now but think I'll remeasure them soon just for fun, maybe get a little more out of them

[@jb.2986]

Well said Gene. Great shirt btw. We have two independent sub outputs time aligned to two subs on our McIntosh MX123 AV processor crossed at 80hz.

[@Adream-lf3mw]

Great vid. I have the SR8015 and 4 corner-loaded, dual 18", master-of-the-universe subs. When my neighbors pass the "You will hear me, before you see me" sign at the entrance to our community, their balls start shaking. So, I'm not worried about a 3dB suckout in the mother in law seat. The Grand Poobah's seat is dialed in!

[@rajopotamus]

Great video and topic! For those of us with processors or receivers with DIRAC with bass control; does it do a good job or is minidsp still a must have? I have 4 subs in the corners of the room just for reference.

[@richarddortch6122]

I have 4 SVS SB12-NSD subs, I use a MiniDSP 2x4HD, I have 3 subs dialed in pretty well, when I added the 4th it made things MUCH more complicated. Overall, I really like the MiniDSP for my subwoofer control.

[@raftube5199]

I had a minidsp hd initially with a different receiver but as you mentioned, the 3700h has independent outs- so I'm using that now.

[@anandshah71]

On Yamaha remote you have programe keys so you can keep profile of subs playing for music or HT

[@mikeharkins2985]

Gene, thanks for another great video. I'm running just one sub, but the room is only 12.5 feet deep, irregularly shaped and with enough furniture that it's impossible to place another sub anywhere. If they ever come out with that under-the-couch model that's 6 feet long by 1 foot deep, I might consider that for some real earthquake effects. Regarding time alignment, my sub is a Metro XD model from Legacy Audio. This is a powered sub. It has a volume control and a phase control. Seems like the phase control alone would be sufficient to allow proper alignment of the sub with the rest of my sound sources. I have attempted to do this by ear, but I doubt I can get it anywhere near perfect that way. If I had two of them, the phase controls on both would allow alignment without the need for two independent sub outputs on the preamp. The good news is that my room is so irregularly shaped that the peaks and valleys are not annoying at all and bass response is fairly smooth.

[@hiviman]

i use an onkyo tx sr393 it has 2 outputs not sure there seprate cuz no option to change each but i also use a Rolls MB15b ProMatch Balanced/Unbalanced Converter 3.5mm/RCA/XLR the gain is a game changer, it makes such a difference with my crown amp just sub duty, its a nigh an day difference

[@marcgallant5270]

Quick question Gene, why aren't AVR companies allowing zone 2/3 to be used as extra independent subwoofer outs. This would be such a game changer for these running 4-6 subwoofers. I wish Denon/Marantz would introduce something like this on their top tier receivers(avr-x8xxx /avr-x6xxx)

[@Audioholics]

Good point. I suppose the switching relays cost money and they figure most people buying inexpensive receivers are only using 1 sub.

[@marcgallant5270]

@@Audioholics you cant deny this would be a game changing feature for their high end AVR's :D

[@Audioholics]

@@marcgallant5270 for sure. I will propose it to Sound United

[@tvolkman88]

@@Audioholics I mean you started the assignable biamp trend so maybe this could happen too

[@Audioholics]

@@tvolkman88 LOL true though I'm kinda regretting that now since companies are putting that feature even in entry level models with weak power supplies 😆

[@rafaelberinguelasr.8445]

Your new subscriber sir, i like the way you explain about sub woofer audio very interesting.congrats sir....

[@bric7244]

I have the marantz sr 6013 with independent subwoofer control . I also 2 monolith 15" thx subs . They do pretty gd on there own but I desperately need them tuned ! I no they can be so much better then what they are right now. I have no prob getting the mini dsp HD 2x4 but actually doing the work and tuning them with it I have no clue where to even start !

[@mzmz9355]

Hello, though I have 2 sub outs (pre-outs) on my 2 channel integrated amp, I`m using only one 18 inch DIY sealed sub (reason = WAF). I`ve already changed time allignment settings on my sub`s DSP and played vigorously with EQ settings based on REW`s measurements. Funny thing was to find out that my main ported speakers themselves produce 30Hz bump that even surpasses the sub, so I closed the ports that evened out the response. Next step probably would be to implement minidsp like mechanism for my mains too to find out that I don`t even need a sub? :)

[@rafaelruiz-tagle358]

Awesome educational topic, as always. This takes me to two questions. 1) does Dirac live and other similar software's do a good job in time alignment and sound? 2) what is your opinion on the REL stacked subwoofers? I understand that the six peace subwoofer system with their different frequency set supposedly makes the music more complete. What is your opinion on that? What are all your opinions of that set up? Thanks!

[@Audioholics]

1. Most room correction systems do a poor to OK job of aligning and calibrating subs. None to date can match what I can do manually, but my process takes time, compulsion and more time. 2. The REL stacking sub recommendation borders on silly to absurd. Then they talk about physically lining up the subs to the mains which begs the question, do they understand the concept of modal manipulation and the benefits of strategically placing subs throughout the room to even out bass response? I am puzzled by some of their recommendations.

[@rafaelruiz-tagle358]

@@Audioholics It makes sense. When I did the Dirac live on my Arcam 550 receiver, I could barely hear the bass. I had to modify it to make it sound better. Unfortunately, it still is not resolved because when I watch movies, it gets too loud, and when I listen to music is not loud enough. As far as far as stacks subwoofers from REL, your comment made me laugh out loud. I was not expecting that, but it confirms my wonder if it is snake oil or not. Thanks for your answers. 🙂

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Stack the Subs, Stack the Subs,,,,,, give us more money...... 😂😂😂

[@makemeinvisible1]

4x SVS SB12 with MiniDSP HD optimized with MSO software on 4 listening positiions.

[@davidlewis8124]

Thanks Gene 👌 very informative video as always. ✌️❤️

[@nodave77]

The non HD minidsp also has minimal adjustment to delay time. I forget the exact number but its something like 4 or 6 milliseconds. The HD goes far longer.

[@martinlindberg1983]

Great content, as always Gene! Many people are writing that they need a tutorial for multi sub config... What?! There are plenty out there... I run MiniDSP/UMIK-1 with a Marantz AVR. I have 4 x 15" built flush in front wall and 2 x 12" behind in corners. I have like 19 large 4 inch absorbers spread out in room on top of multi-sub to tame mid-bass... I listen mostly at 2-ch music and love the accurate bass that helps my ML CLS main speakers. I disagree with mono sub not working with higher cross-over. I have mine set at 140hz with excellent result, IMO. The down side to all technical potentials in my hand is that I tend to adjust/measure more than I listen at the moment :). Can I make a better curve and integration? I though love to mess with it :)

[@VoodooZ]

that's one of the reasons I went with X3700.. That and It's the lowest model to get 7.4.1.. So far I'm very happy with my choice..

[@jitrapornpha5104]

What red speakers are they in the background? Beautiful.

[@Audioholics]

Rbh Sound 8300 prototypes. More info coming later this month.

[@galzohar]

How much better is exact delay setting in minidsp/receiver vs variable phase knob on something like the SVS pb-2000? Would love to see a video on time aligning with mains. I am not sure but I have a feeling I can do better than what I have. Got a significant improvement for my right speaker bass by just using REW looking for optimal response, adding 2 meters over Auddysey measured distance. In REW the excess group delay still indicates my subwoofer is delayed relative to the mains.

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Minidsp HD is infinitely better, go see the videos on it, and compare what you can do with that svs now.

[@kewlbug]

2 subs on my Yamaha A2070. I had it pretty good w the delays and manual EQ. But got a MiniDSP just to have finer PEQ adjustment and add BEQ filters. Important to note MiniDSP is ONLY 0.9v output! Upgrade to MiniDSP 2x4 HD for a 2 volt output. Pay attention to your input voltages as well.

[@davidlewis8124]

Are there any DSPs out there that have 4-volt for each subwoofer out. Just curious. ✌️❤️

[@kewlbug]

@@davidlewis8124 Not at this price point, (unless there's some random chinese unit) even the Dayton dsp-408 is only 1.5v in 2.3v out before clipping. 2v will work for subs no problem. Get the 2x4 HD and don't worry about it. My Crown amp seems to just barely be clipping at 2v in (40hz odb) maxed out gain. You may find more options if you look at car DSPs (most have 4-6v out) but you're looking at double the cost at least for something with PEQ. If I was doing a high end system and want to step up from MiniDSP, I'd go something like a Helix DSP Mini. The software is next level. I would really like to experiment with individual peq, and then the peq grouping. *also you might need a quality power supply, But most the mobile units have a few grounding options if you have a problem

[@davidlewis8124]

Thanks for all the information guys ✌️ ❤️

[@stevemann3078]

I have the 2400 Denon And amplifier from S.V.S. Subwoofer 1000 Pro and it is amazing awesome bass.

[@danbretherton]

There should be a list of all AVRs with independent subwoofer outs.

[@jasonpipkin8060]

Love your channel, has helped a lot with my HT journey. Recently purchase mini dsp 2x4 HD along with more subs for a total of 4 now. Time align and EQ was a cinch but I’m only using 1 sub out of pre-pro into the mini input with 4 subs on the outputs. Would it be better to use both my independent sub outputs on pre-pro to both inputs of my mini? Also would it be better to use the 4v jumper inside dsp instead of 2v. Still new to this, any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!

[@mohammedisaa9952]

I think the 2v id for phono connection, and the 4v is for xlr studio equipement on a phono to xlr wired connector, but ask others in the know, i think im correct though 🙂

[@MagnumMuscle1000]

Why can't we get the equivalent of the MiniDsp module and REW built in to an A/V receiver? It can't be that hard to write a routine that would properly automate the process in the receiver.

[@shawnbrennan7075]

I have two subwoofers. I have the miniDSP. It is only being used as a high pass filter around 16hz. The subs are probably considered "nearfield" about 4' from listening position and naturally time aligned because of their placement. I have the Yamaha RX-A6 with dual independent sub output and PEQ ability.

[@tvolkman88]

Near field is within the diameter of the woofer, so these are outside of that

[@shawnbrennan7075]

@@tvolkman88 interesting, thank you.

[@rainman3269]

Gene ... Will you be releasing your report on the Anthem 740 shortly ... Looking at get one ... Kind Regards

[@glengatt3941]

I don't need to put the subs front but that's the only place I can put them or the other place is on the closest 9ft high small room

[@GlennMcKeon-n5s]

Are 2 independent sub outputs less critical if you are only using 2 subs which flank the L+R mains, and are equidistant to the LP? (One sub is slightly closer to a side wall than the other)

[@tg6373]

Gene, you're the best!

[@kewlbug]

YES I can't find any videos on how to actually use Spectrogram/wavelets

[@Audioholics]

Added to the list

[@simoto8327]

Hi Gene, I have an Anthem MRX1120 and miniDSP 2x4 HQ with 2 x 12in subs Martin logan 1000, I used REW to align both subs togheter using the phase alignment option in REW then after that I phase the sum of the subs to my towers again using REW. At the end of all of this, I use ARC from Anthem to finetune the final result. ARC give you the opportunity to give bassboost at the lower end of the subs curve (you can do it with miniDSP too). after testing the result, I can fell a lack of power below 30hz and at let said 25hz and less there is almost no power, I mean the subs speakers are moving but no bass feeling. My guess here is that I have 12in speakers subs and it is the physical limit of 12in speakers. I guess if I want to go lower than that, I would need an extra 18 or 21in sub. The 3rd sub could be set on a 3rd output of the miniDSP with a 30hz low pass filter to play the last octave from let said 15 to 30hz. I dont think there would be an issue with peak and nulls as it would be alone in it range and it range would be a little small regarding the kind of peak we can see in a standard room. I would like to know your tought about addind a 3rd bigger sub and im also curious to see how you align your subs with REW.

[@galzohar]

Is your subwoofer sealed? For a ported 12" sub of reasonable quality you should get power at 20Hz.

[@tenehaglendening9246]

What's your opinion of seismic audio amps? Thanks in advance

[@adamjj85]

The new wall is looking good! Did you do any soundproofing for it? I did the same thing recently and built a wall to enclose my office.

[@Audioholics]

Thanks. Loosely filled with Rockwool insulation. I tried to get them to do studs at 20in on center but they did them 14in and built a very rigid wall. They are using a solid core door though. Best thing is I have privacy now and got rid of the bass suckout.

[@adamjj85]

@@Audioholics Nice! Same for me, I did standard studs, with 5/8" drywall, filled with R-15 rockwool and solid core door with weatherstripping on all edges. Not home theater level isolation, but it gets the job done and the acoustics of the room are completely different.

[@mohammedisaa9952]

You could use firstripping in the frame grooves.......?

[@carlos2bass]

What do you think of Swarm or DBA concept of using 4 subwoofers for 2 channel and that delay (mini dap)is really overrated and what is important is location of ; subs to minimize peaks and valleys all over the room?

[@u404685]

I got a mini DSP, love it!

[@jeremy9450]

Problem is that Auro3d setups, the VOG channel will often utilize the sub 2 output on your receiver. Only way to get around this and utilize the sub 2 output for the second sub is to go with something higher than an 11.2 channel processor which is big bucks.

[@Audioholics]

There's no native content for Auro. Don't ditch the 2 sub feature for a dead format.

[@frankkasteren6012]

It's not a dead format hier in Europe ther comming alot of New movies white auro 3d

[@Lindros1988]

I've got four subs. One in each corner, in a slightly irregular shaped room. I originally used a miniDSP and UMIK-1 to align them myself, but my AVR has independent sub outs and because the pairs of subs are nearly equidistant from the MLP, I was able to use a y-splitter for each sub pair and get slightly better results than I was able to get with the miniDSP. At some point, I'd like to try an AVR with 4 independent sub outs, just to see how much of an improvement it would make over my current setup.

[@Christopher._M]

The time Is now with the new Denon x3800h

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Costing how much?..... you think we all rich so you can sit on miami beaches on our thousands @400%+ markups........ sad, you're nearly as bad as bankers..........

[@deanedgx]

Hi Jene. May I ask, If you have only one LFE out and use multiple subs with variable phase controls, I guess time alignment could be achieved although it would be quite a bit more difficult if you don't have the means to measure? Edit: I see you addressed my question in the video. Thanks buddy, great video.

[@nickbessey5352]

Up until today, I run a minidsp with my intergra as it has only 1 sub out. I just ordered a Marantz AV7704 that claims to have 2 indepent subs. Since I only have 2 subs, will I really need the Minidsp? Thanks

[@rexdeshon5274]

I have a Marantz 8015. Do I use both sub outs for minidsp 2x4hd?

[@Audioholics]

No, use 1 sub out and do your delays in the mdsp.

[@leighagnello7993]

Would you go x6 roof speakers x2 sub on mono or x4 roof speaker in x2 independent sub ports?

[@mohammedisaa9952]

6 roof is preferably, you mean for atmos?.....

[@natsts50]

I’m right in the middle of calibration of three subs using a minidsp 2x4hd and my sr7015. A full start to finish Vid of the proper steps to complete this correctly from AH would be much appreciated. I have seen a massive improvement over my previous audy calibrations of seat to seat bass response/quality. A specific issue I am having is how to run xt32 without affecting the minidsp sub calibration?

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Now..... thats "meaning of life" levels of consideration....... tune individually, and prey they dont affect eachother when ran together, or its going to cost more "dsp's"...... 😂😂😂

[@paulgyro]

I have four subs, aligned with REW, MSO, and miniDSP 2x4 HD. Great results other then poor integration with mains.

[@tvolkman88]

What is MSO?

[@paulgyro]

Man I've posted the answer two times and it keeps disappearing

[@paulgyro]

MSO = Multi-Sub Optimizer Software

[@NakeanWickliff]

Took me forever to get the integration to my mains AND surround. Keep at it because once you nail this, the system will feel like one cohesive unit and will make you smile! Message me and maybe I can help.

[@tvolkman88]

@@paulgyro so what order does MSO come in? Does it come first and provide the values to set in the mini dsp or do you dial in with mini dsp/REW first then run MSO?

[@garcjr]

I have two towers as my L/R channels that I run the LFE through. I also have one (so far) subwoofer. In another video you said to set your towers to small speakers so the LFE doesn't run through the towers. What are the benefits over what I'm running?

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Your coils wont melt, as there not built to handle lfe signals...... do you even know what the abbreviation "lfe" actually means?......

[@2tall886]

Isn't this built into for example svs subs?

[@luciusblackwood2640]

I have two SVS PB3000's and I don't really have a good understanding on how to use the phase adjustment. But that aside if both subs are equal distance from the main listening position is independent time alignment necessary?

[@mohammedisaa9952]

I dont think so, but try and sit down and listen to the differences, ask SVS, as they have your money (a considerable amount) so im sure they offer some customer service, ijust hope you dont get a generic BS reply.....

[@SorikuXIII]

If you just use Audyssey instead of REW how important is this? Or rather will Audyssey do a decent job at time aligning dual subs? I have a Denon x3500h which I don't believe is independent.

[@amigosdohometheater5140]

make a video of the new audissey for pc please

[@Samzep]

1140 waiting for the sub firmware coming which time alignment i only have one 4000 svs pb

[@sebulbathx]

Great video!

[@alexthesaxman6219]

I run 2 subs off my Yamaha 3080 but decided to split the signal instead bc it seemed when I ran it independent I lost subwoofer gain for some reason

[@damienlahoz]

I have goldenear Triton 3+s up front, running a y split to a aventage with a rsl speedwoofer. So 3 subs total. But the aventage doesnt have independent control. I live with it but wouldn't mind a more elegant solution. But i dont want to pay for it

[@theredon2]

Great info like always. So in my case I’m using a parasound p6 for my HT/2channel listening the reason I like this parasound is because it has HT bypass and also 2 sub subwoofer output with crossover controls. Right now I have one subwoofer if I add another one the sub will be independent for the stereo audio right?

[@mohammedisaa9952]

I think so?.... ask the manufacturer to be sure, but if its signal is taken from the mains, then it would be stereo and independant..... What you need to ask is, what signal are your mains getting? As if they are set to small and have a shelf of 80 or 100hz, then there wouldnt be much base, especialy beneath them shelves..... I think you would need mains on full range and lfe (low frequency extension) going through your mains which is NEVER a good idear as you will blow your mains up, also..... is this signal to your device at volume controlled, or line level where you need an independant volume........ Its too much of a dodgey area for me, just to get a more basey signal to the seperate woofers..... im out 👎🏻

[@joelopez7459]

I got one of these a while ago but still interesting

[@robshigledecker5998]

Nice video as always,I have a question, I recently cut the cable & have KZbin TV, how do I get the audio to put out more than a 5.1 signal, now I have a 7k dollar system that only puts out 5.1, it's really frustrating

[@andrewhornfeck7421]

I had KZbinTV for a time. I recall researching to find they do not support but stereo audio. I will say my Denon can do amazingly well as DD-Surround and DD-Neural achieving 5.2.2 in my room. I’ve been again researching using REW for my el-cheap o Polk PSW 505’s to KNOW what they’re doing with an eye on a pair o SVS PC-2000 Pros. I will look closer at Gene’s SW room size again as I’m 3,000 ft^3

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Use laptop to give video and audio signal through non hdmi inputs, then use synthetic 7.1 signal, thats the best you will get ☹️ maybe choose another supplier, but over internet the picture will always be crap..... let alone the sound.

[@Quietprofessional1]

I have the Yamaha RX-V6A receiver and 2 Klipsch R-12SW subwoofers. I assume because I have two subwoofer outputs on my receiver that they're both like parallel or not separate channels I couldn't find any information on it can you confirm this for me please? Thanks for your time!

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Download that items manual from manufacturer, Gene is farr too busy to do your work for you, he wouldn't even get paid for the time, and if your not prepaid to do it, your certainly won't offer to pay him to do it....... This is whats wrong today in this world, the youth of today adopting the idelogies of the "entitled"..... You have had them far too long in your society, you need to be sending them back to russia where they came from before you fall too far...........

[@tonyb3350]

What avr has more than 2 independent outputs?

[@benfits8768]

Can you use 2 mini dsp's if you have more than 4 subs ?

[@mohammedisaa9952]

Having more than 4 subs is completly pointless u less you own some massive nightclub or bar/restraunt somewhere where you need the consistant volume in all areas..... You own your own stadium or football field?......

[@mohammedisaa9952]

You could plug 4 mini dsp's into the firsts outlets giving you 16 subs for 5 minidsp's........ than times 4 again for the next progression (64 subs 😂)....

[@benfits8768]

@@mohammedisaa9952 I'm running 5 subs at the moment. The room is 5.2m X 8m. Idea is to have more subs to cross over the low frequency. Get some 21 inch for that. High bass will be dedicated to the smaller faster drivers. I've seen rooms with 4 subs in each bottom corner and 4 in the riff corners, then at the back of the room a huge driver for the really deep stuff. So no having more than 4 subs isn't completely pointless. I guess it is if you have a small room which I do not. Waste of money maybe haha but not pointless.

[@TheRextc]

If you are using 4 subs I guess you have to use atleast 2 Mini DSPs for time alighment. Even if you have dual independent outputs. Right?

[@tvolkman88]

Just one. One output from receiver and mini dsp has 4 outputs

[@EquesCasurus]

Do you use the same PEQ on all the subs in a multi-sub or do you PEQ every Sub on its on?

[@Audioholics]

Typically you do global PEQ but sometimes I tweak each sub a bit for fine tuning.

[@josephfranzen5626]

I’ve had great success using global PEQ applied to both inputs on my MiniDSP HD and than using a few PEQ channels on each sub to fine tune the post global PEQ frequency response as I have four sealed subs but the rears are 12” THX SELECT with my front subs being a 15” THX ULTRA and a Mirage BPS-400. So a bit of additional fine tuning is required for the level of precision I prefer.

[@1psxpat]

I have a questions, when I time aligned the subs as good as it gets, do I need to tweak the variable phase control to get even better alignment?

[@Audioholics]

You need to measure the combined output of your subs and mains at the Listening area to make that determination.

[@1psxpat]

@@Audioholics thanks. maybe someday you can make a tutorial for subs alignment with mains.

[@goandy89]

I don’t run any subwoofers in my setups. I’m only a 2ch setup using vintage large 4way speakers with 16” woofers.

[@peterstraw6355]

Another great video, Gene, That is the first time I have heard you mention the minidsp 2x4 HD. Any chance of a video showing how to set up 4 Subs using it with REW? Keep up the great work

[@peterstraw6355]

@@Pete.across.the.street Thanks for that - will do.

[@tvolkman88]

@@Pete.across.the.street that video is great but I wouldn't mind seeing Gene do a video as well if he has any additional insights