Australian Fingerlime, why is it so heavy ?

I'm mystified why this plant is so heavy, so as I don't want any root issues several months down the road I've decided to investigate the soil in the pot. As I suspected under the top 'cosmetic' layer of light peaty compost, I discovered a heavy mud-like ball of soil. As I foresee this causing root issues over winter, I decided to remove as much of the solidified soil as possible immediately and replacing it with my open, free draining soil mix. I'm hoping it won't be too stressed and that this citrus will respond well to the repotting.

[@JM.TheComposer]

I really appreciate you showing yourself doing the real steps, rather than just talking about them. It's really helpful for beginners like me.

[@lyonheart84]

For my citrus I’m using what you’ll hear American growers refer to as 511 mix, which is 5 parts orchid ( or pine ) bark to 1 part perlite to 1 part peat moss. It’s not an exact science and you can ‘tweak’ it if you like. You could use more perlite if you like, or add some coarse sand ( although that’s heavy ). You could also mix in a slow release granular fertiliser ). The theory is that this mix is lighter, well aerated and drains quickly.

[@lyonheart84]

You are more than welcome, I do feature repotting occasionally although it can be tricky to film them lol

[@Coolclimatetropicalfruits]

I’ve never found big rocks like that in my bought plants, that’s pretty slack of them. A bit of seaweed solution in the Luke warm water would help to heal and give a boost. I soak my bare root fruit trees in it for 30 mins before planting or potting up. Tip from my horticulturist mate who’s apprenticeship over 25 years ago was in a native plant nursery

[@lyonheart84]

Lol I couldn't believe what I found, could have started a construction business 😂😂. I soaked it for an hour I'd guess and this morning it's looking the best it has since I got it. Previously the tips of the new growth had been limp the whole time but now they are upright so hopefully this was a good decision 🤞🤞

[@careyjohnston4176]

Yes sir this type of soil will eventually cause root rot . I have been wanting to mention to some of the large commercial nurseries that grow plants using a peat base that most of these plants suffer and die by no fault of the consumer. Especially drought resistant plant bought in the southeastern United States. We can grow these plants if they can establish themselves first but we have so much rain in winter and spring that they drowned. I always remove as much of the peat around roots and incorporate into planting hole along with proper ammendment. Thank you very much for calling attention to a problem most do not understand is killing lots of these plants and killing consumer confidence in these products.

[@lyonheart84]

Yes although in fact the European commercial growers mostly grow in their native soil which appears to be mostly sand / clay based which is why they are so heavy. They often add volcanic rock to the mix. I’m not a fan of it because of it’s weight but it works well in Mediterranean climate, not so good in our wet climate. Peat is virtually banned over here now due to environmental issues so it’s hard to get if you like using it

[@careyjohnston4176]

I can see a problem with the shipping costs of something grown in a clay soil because it weights so much more raising rates. Thank you for your response.

[@lyonheart84]

Yes of course although once a batch of plants is loaded onto a van or lorry I don’t suppose the extra weight makes much difference 😁

[@TheGreenThumbGardeningChannel]

I predict rapid growth once this plant settles into it's new grow medium Brett, I'm totally surprised that any water was reaching the root ball of this plant prior to you repotting it in rich, well draining soil.

[@lyonheart84]

Yes the soil was shocking, I couldn't judge how wet it was as it was so heavy 😱😱

[@garycard1456]

This is exactly what I have been talking about. It amazes me that the plant is healthy in the first place. All the horticultural literature on citrus states that they hate wet feet and that the potting mix must be free-draining. I had a bergamot orange in this clay-like compact garden soil. The stone I found in it was more like a boulder. I have kept it as a memento, as it had an unusual triangular shape to it. When I watered the plant, it took a good 30 minutes for the water to permeate through the mass of compact soil. A soil change is definitely called for, but without disturbing the roots too much.

[@lyonheart84]

If you watch or fast forward through the whole video you'll see how drastic I had to get with the root ball , it was like concrete all the way to the centre. The second rock I found was huge compared to the first stone. I'm just hoping it recovers from being taken back to pretty much bare roots. Interestingly on the Flora Toskana website ( where my other citrus plant will be coming from ) their citrus growing instructions talk about watering heavily 2 or 3 times a week 😱😱

[@garycard1456]

@@lyonheart84 Many times I have had to perform the exact same bareroot operation as you have done in this video. The citrus plants I have bought from Lubera and non-citrus (Jamaican Allspice, Acerola) from Flora Toskana often come in this compact and dense garden soil, whereas the plants I have bought from Canarius and Frutales were in a granular volanic soil which has better drainage. When my Acerola arrived two years ago it was a leafless twig! The overly retentive and clay-like soil it was in was saturated with water.

[@lyonheart84]

Shame frutales can’t be bothered to reply to emails, completely useless. I can’t complete my collection now 🤪🤪. Hoping my lost flora Toscana delivery finally turns up tomorrow

[@werpu12]

Got my finger lime in such a clay soil as well, for whatever reason. Did not want to do anything, lost 2 fruits and stopped growing. I did not take such an extrem measure but tried to get rid of the clay by hand which I succeded by 80% or so... repotted it in a citrus mix and after settling in, it literally was exploding in growth, some of the branches are about a meter long now. (they used to be 30cm before)

[@lyonheart84]

Yes that clay soil is a killer in our climate, they prefer an open, free draining soil

[@adamsolomon8346]

I've actually got a much smaller one, had it posted from australia its the red ruby variety, suppose to be a very cold hardy type. but yours looks pretty impressive Brett

[@lyonheart84]

That was really brave to risk having a plant sent so far, I'm very nervous when they are only coming from Europe 😂😂

[@adamsolomon8346]

lyonheart84 exotic fruit growing haha the seller was really good, they packaged it’s really well. Have you got any dragon fruits Brett?

[@MalaysianTropikfusion]

I just bought four grafted finger lime saplings from two local nurseries which imported them from Thailand. The inner part of their root balls were practically growing in clay. I wonder how they tolerated that soil up till the point I bought them. To add insult to injury, two of them arrived with melanose 🙄 One calamansi bought from another nursery was even worse. Almost all of the soil in its polybag was clay. It was so hard even after being wet. I had to hose it down real hard and tease the hardened clay bits off of the roots for quite a while.

[@lyonheart84]

Most of the citrus in Europe turn up in the mud / clay type soil, probably because it's their local soil. But it's no good for the UK because it's not warm enough here for the soil to dry out quickly. I normally try to change the soil in Spring if possible as I'm worried about repotting before winter when the plants go dormant 😬😬

[@MalaysianTropikfusion]

@@lyonheart84 Oh, I'm from Southeast Asia. Are you saying that it's normal for nurseries in the tropics to use clay soil? I don't know much about gardening, having just jumped into it recently because of COVID-19. Anyhow, I've since repotted my finger limes into ArtStone self-watering pots, with sandy loam soil and a base layer of lava rocks, pumice, and zeolite. The soil was originally sold as a mix for portulacas (moss rose), while the rock mix was my attempt at imitating Lechuza's Pon, which some people on KZbin swear by. Neem oil and soap seems to have the melanose under control. After watering them with mycorrhizal fungi and some 6:6:4 organic fertiliser, they've finally sprouted new growth (They weren't growing at all before that point). Sorry, just had to get this out of my system. There's a Singapore-based Facebook group of finger lime enthusiasts and growers, but I'm not able to join it at the moment.

[@lyonheart84]

I’m not sure about soils in Asia but on mainland Europe in the Mediterranean climate the native soil tends to be heavy like clay, not suitable for pot growing in my cooler climate and even where you are I’d say a well draining compost is safer as the roots breath better and you can simply water more often if it dries out faster. Yes it’s common here to be sent plants with insect or disease problems lol, I guess it’s hard to manage every plant on big nurseries 🤪🤪

[@lyonheart84]

In fact in a later video you will see this actual plant died due to winter root rot although I’ve now managed to save the rootstock so I might one day be able to graft back onto it. I do have 2 small fingerlime bushes as well that are still healthy

[@werpu12]

@@lyonheart84 Do tell me, I got the worst infested citrus from "home depot" like markets, where they import very likely from Asia (maybe even bypassing EU import rules), whereas citrus from local nurseries where mostly safe and healthy. I am glad I do not live in a citrus growing area, I guess those plants would be a an open door for pests. Already 2-3 pest species which are killing local plants came through this door.

[@voxintenebris6367]

The only time that I haven't had waterlogging issues with citrus, is when I have put them in a pot that is really way too small - that way they draw the water out better. I had two limes that I constantly forgot about and they thrived; those that had my undivided attention and pampering, didn't. My citrus in the ground just grow so much better, but I don't know if they will survive the winter - even though I intend cushioning them with an actual fleece ( off a sheep) and pegging that down with goal pegs. I do the same with the grape and kiwi - at least 6" thick of some sort of insulation to keep the heat in and bubble-wrap over the lot to keep the water out. My LIdls lemon was in the same dense medium that your finger lime was in and the soil was tight against the sides of the rigid plastic pot - but I can't say anything as it was perfectly healthy, covered in oodles of lemons. It did however have the large chunks of pumice like pieces in the lower third. Have you tried a large terracotta planter?

[@lyonheart84]

Yes I'm going to try and keep my tropicals underpotted from now as much as possible as the more roots fill the pot, the less chance there is of root rot issues. I think terracotta would help but for the amount of plants I have, the costs and weight mean it isn't really practical

[@voxintenebris6367]

@@lyonheart84 I meant terracotta for that one, given that it is more of a specimen as a standard. I bought lovely, large pots from a potter in Germany. He charged £150 in shipping alone for a pots costing £180+ . Fortunately, Amazon stock his work and I paid just £50 shipping that way.

[@XoroksComment]

Keep in mind that citrus plants are evergreen. They don't go dormant like deciduous plants which loose their leaves, so you cannot wrap them like you would with your kiwi and grapes. The cover you put over them has to let light shine through. You can use a few layers of row cover fleece, and then put bubble wrap on top. But the plant needs light, even in winter

[@voxintenebris6367]

@@XoroksComment Apologies, I should have clarified that I only actually cover the base of each plant. I have a kiwi plant in a pretty miserable part of the garden, yet it got through its first winter. This year it has put on lots of growth and I hope it will continue to thrive, but we can get very low temperatures here, equally we get high rainfall. I hope that in adding some 6" of insulation/ protection around the base of plants that it provides a little water shed and insulation. I also add material to the raised beds - last year straw and paper, as I had copious amounts from packaged goods. It makes a vast difference returning to the raised beds the following year to have workable compost, instead of claggy, dense soil. I know that I am unrealistic in trying to grow some of the plants that I do in this region, but I am trying to see what can be done with some minimal, additional protection and creating microclimates for various plants. I hope that as the plants age, they will harden to the area. I also insulate the bases of grapes, citrus etc.

[@lyonheart84]

@@XoroksComment yes I wouldn't cover mine although I suppose you could throw a fleece over them at night then remove it in the morning....

[@mr.v3061]

You basicly bought a bag of rocks with an extra plant growing on it :D

[@lyonheart84]

Don’t remind me 😬😬. Not the first time I’ve bought a citrus with junk soil but I’m wise to the problem now and will check every one I buy, to try and sort out problems BEFORE they occur.

[@louiseahmedtropicalplantgr5000]

Do you make your own compost mix? I saw an Ericaceous compost bag, do you add anything to it. I usually add some orchid bark and add some citrus mix as well

[@lyonheart84]

Hi Louise, yes I always mix my own composts for the tropicals, I don't like any of the ready made products any more. The current mix in that bucket consists of coco coir, orchid bark, perlite, composted fine bark, and citrus compost. I didn't add the ericaceous compost to it as I didnt need to make it more acidic. It should be suitable for most of my tropicals but not for seeds as it's a bit coarse for them.

[@JM.TheComposer]

What's the composition of the new soil?

[@lyonheart84]

Composition given in my other reply 😁