Automatic vs Manual Antenna Tuners

[@PureAwareness76]

🎉 This video and you are a blessing! ❤ What a lovely, straightforward and scientific video at the same time! Cheerz from a Hungarian 🇭🇺 SWL working in 🇬🇧

[@charlesstephens3660]

Hi Tracy....TNX for your videos. I too am a fan of manual tuners. The use of these on other than the ham bands is VERY useful as you mentioned. Thus it acts as a "Pre-Selector". The added benefit is it helps to increase selectivity.

[@nielsstergaard4262]

And that final comment was what I needed to convince myself that got into HAM to learn - also the old school ways

[@mikethetuner]

This is excellent. Thank you for posting this video! I'm an old Know-Code Extra, first licensed 41 years ago, and the only automation in my first station was the transmit/receive antenna relay: otherwise, I had to do everything else manually. (Kind of like driving a stick vs. an automatic--the operator has to know the rig's capabilities and traits in order to make it work the best.) Once I upgraded to a rig with the automatic tuner built in, I still kept the manual tuner in line just to help out as needed--I've discovered that they work well together and the internal adjusts to the external with no problem. Like you said, even though technology has made huge strides very quickly, amateur radio is still technical, and matching things up like this is part of it. There's just no beating a resonant antenna, but this is the real world, and the tuner is sometimes needed to bring things into harmony in a compromise situation. 73 DE KØVZ

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Interesting use case, thank you for sharing your experience! I like your stick vs. automatic analogy.

[@dannelson8556]

That Kenwood AT-120 antenna tuner is on a whole different level better than the LDG auto tuner. Kenwood also made a very similar AT-130 Which also covered 10MHz 18 MHz and 24 MHz

[@BrianSmith-fc4qy]

Hi Tracy, thanks for helping me understand the functions of auto/manual tuners

[@radiorob]

Some very valid comments and observations. I've been in the hobby since my teens and grew up peaking grids and dipping plates but for the new hams, the operation of a manual tuner is often somewhat of a mystery. Manual tuners are getting a reputation of blowing up to easily. This is because they are being switched while full power is applied instead of pre-tuning by listening to the receiver noise then only doing the final adjustments at QRP levels. Thanks for a great video.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it!

[@smartazz61]

I think you have "The Voice". You have a great documentary voice.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, sir.

[@ekbanjosworld4926]

He does have an excellent voice ! You should check out Julian !!! Either could do wildlife documentaries !!!

[@JonnyMidnight870]

Thanks Tracy, I'm new in HAM and yet to get my licence. I'm trying to absorb as much information as possible before I buy my first rig. I opted for the Yaesu FC10 since I figured it's gonna be a no fuzz tuner but upon seeing your vid, it got me thinking... Thanks for the enlightening insight. I appreciate it.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Good luck with getting your license 👍 Looking forward to working you one day.

[@jfrphoto01]

You should decide which HF rig you want before getting a tuner as some tuners work with a limited number of transceivers. Case in point, the Yaesu FC-10 was made for use with the Yaesu FT-840 HF transceiver. FC-10 Specifications: * Coverage: 1.8 to 30 MHz Amateur Bands * Power rating: 100W PEP * Memories: 31 total * Tuning time: 1 to 8 seconds, 4 seconds average * Antenna matching impedance: 16.5 to 150 Ohms (SWR less than 3) * Tuning power: 8 watts or more * Matching Time: Under 30 seconds * Power requirements: 13.5 volts DC @ 700 mA * Enclosure: 4.5 x 4 x 9.5 inches 4.5 Lbs (117x93x243mm 2 kg). The Yaesu FC-10 Tuner is designed for the FT-840. It operates in all nine HF amateur bands and features 31 frequency memories. The FC-10 provides a compact, easy-to-install unit that is styled to match the appearance of the FT-840 and will match a wide variety of antennas to within a 1.5:1 SWR on any amateur band frequency in typically less than 30 seconds. You can use the tuner switch on the transceiver for one-touch recall of tuner frequency memories that have already been stored. SWR matching occurs in under one second for memory recall. Transmitter power required for matching can be as little as 10 watts and matching settings are automatically stored in memory for instant recall when the same frequency range is reselected later. The back panel features SO-239 inputs and outputs plus a ground lug. The FC-10 comes with a 3 foot (1m) coaxial cable, 3 foot (1m) control cable and features a pull out flip stand if you wish to operate the tuner at an angle.

[@twobikesandadrone]

After many years I'm finally getting into the HF world and couldn't agree more with your comment about getting back to the basics of what ham radio is all about. My goal is to work QRP at every opportunity and use the most basic of antennas whenever possible. Guess I'll add a manual tuner to the list!

[@larryprice9970]

Great video Tracy. I am a new ham in Guelph and enjoy all your videos. I have learned a great deal Thanks VE3WDF keep them coming

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you Larry! Always nice to hear from a fellow Ontario ham.

[@TheManFromAustralia]

Excellent video my friend! I've been using a 941E for years, and never dreamed of going automatic. All the best and 73's

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you very much and 73!

[@marcdb9974]

I'm old school, but I prefer the speed with which my auto-tuner, which is at the antenna, finds solutions in nearly all cases. I did, however, spend some time stepping through the bands to figure out where it might choke; I also tune at relatively low power, just enough for the thing to work properly.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE]

Enjoyed your video and it resonated with me....without a tuner at all! LOL Liked your train of thought and you raised some valid thoughts. I'm old fashioned have recently bought a lovely Kenwood AT230.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment! Enjoy that fine tuner.

[@OldSweetTed]

My older Kenwood AT-130 is my trusty manual tuner. This is a great video! Thanks!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Nice tuner you have there, Jim! Thank you for watching and leaving a comment.

[@rogerparrett3242]

All great points, Tracy... Including the mention of Julian's channel. Been a long time subscriber to you and Julian. You guys are great assets to the technical aspects of ham radio. Well done. 73 ... Roger / NQ8RP

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, Roger. Much appreciated.

[@jasperbates6760]

I am not a licensed operator but I have used CB's and 10 meter export radio's, and amplifiers, and manual and automatic antenna tuners for years as a professionl driver in the U.S. It has been my experience that auto tuners generally look for a 1:5 SWR. with some having the option to seek lower than 1:5 such as 1:0. However are not always able to achieve that goal. But I have never had that issue in operating manual tuners even in my mobile radios. Manual tuners I have always managed to get a flat SWR that does not even swing a cross needle on a combination ham style SWR Watt Meter when properly grounded to your vehicle or outdooors with an appropriate 8 ft grounding rod and station setup. Regardless of the Manual Tuners amazing range and capabiity it is limited when your station itself is not properly grounded. I have used co-phased and center fed 11 meter dipoles for years in mobile and base operations with amazing results. I have also learned that 1:1 baluns installed at the antenna feedpoint which must be a minimum of 1/2 wavelength above ground for that specific band, then installed every half wave length in 11 meters of coax that's every 18 feet of coax in length on 11 meters, keeps the coax from acting as a tri-pole on the dipole. And from allowing your signal from the dipole to run back down your coax sheild. Or the Coax itself from acting as a recieve antenna. So on the first 18 feet of coax which is vertical I use a 1:1 balun at the antenna feedpoint, 18 ft of coax then runs down the mast with a 1:1 balun and a lightning arrestor together at the base of the mast that is grounded to an 8 ft grounding rod with a 10 gauge solid copper wire, then the other 18 ft of coax that connects to the balun and lightening arrestor that enters my shack I place another 1:1 balun there also that is attached to my radio. For a total of 3 seperate 1:1 balns installed with a lightning arrestor to proper ground. I was told this would improve unwanted noise levels but, that is not so. It's just as I stated keeps my coax from acting as a tri-pole antenna instead of a dipole antenna. Meaning the power emits from the antenna not your coax and keeps your coax itself from acting as an antenna. and also gives high levels of RF typical with amplifiers and antenna tuners a good solid ground for the RF to go that cannot be transmitted by the antenna or dissipated as heat by the tuner. What reduces unwanted noise levels in your rig is using a proprly tuned antenna for the specific band your using such as my rig which is 11 meters. And by coiling every connection of ac or dc power wires and coax jumper's attached directly to my rig inside my shack, meaning all power supplies ac wires, meters, amplifiers, coax jumpers, coax, and antenna tuners, etc......Remember that any wire hooked anywhere to your rig unless coiled ( "will act as a recieve antenna", ) and by coiling all these connections as close to your equipment as possible prevents them from acting as multiple "recieve antenna's". Many people also use magnetic torroids together in their coils that aids even further, or by instaling noise supressors in their dc power cables but, coiling the wire performs the same task also and is better than no coiling at all. I get awesome reports of my station being super clear because I take care in how I install the system. And I use high quality variable switching power supplies so there is no need for any dc noise supressors or for my ac power lines. With all wire / coax connections and lengths of straighht runs in my rig kept to an absolute bare minimum to connect the equipment all together. Added bonus with the cost of antenna anayzers coming down in price to just a $100 dollars these analyzers hooked to your manual antenna tuner will tune your antenna and antenna tuner without even transmitting a signal. Or the need to use your expensive radio your until ready to safely transmit on air. Also they are now selling portabe all mode transcievers 160- 10 meters for as low as $159.00. So I am thinking about getting both just to listen in on the airwaves. I already have CB, Commercial and Military Aviation, Marine, and VHF/UHF transcievers so I might as well complete all the bands. Even though I am not licensed to use them.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your very thoughtful comment!

[@duncanchaboudy4187]

Great video with excellent information.

[@tomflaherty2138]

Thanks for the great video. Just stepping up to General level and tryting to build my own NVIS for intra-State comms. This helps with my understanding of tuning, as well as the auto-vs-manual options. Great technical info, presented in a digestible manner.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, Tom! Good luck with your NVIS antenna, sounds like an interesting project.

[@brucecairnie3975]

Tracy, I always enjoy your videos. I use an FT-897D as well. I bought it used and it came with the LDG autotuner. My antenna is an inexpensive vertical and I had trouble tuning it successfully. I switched to using a manual tuner and love it. Last weekend I talked from my QTH outside Vancouver to stations in Alaska, Hawaii, Japan, Finland and French Guiana on different bands. I give significant credit to the ability of my manual tuner to extend its reach beyond the 3:1 range of the autotuner. I have a manual tuner in my shack at home and I have a second one in my kit for when I go portable. I don't foresee going back to autotuners.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Bruce! Those are some great portable contacts you racked up. 73 my friend.

[@brianshanahan3878]

Great video as I am torn between my manual tuner and switching to an auto tuner. I will use both for now.. Also liked your hat tip to OH8STN !

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you!

[@yugbe]

Thanks! I'm building out my portable setup now and this helped to make my decision on a tuner. Going to go the manual route. It should work well with my FT-891... it will be here Tomorrow!! 73

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Good luck and have fun! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@bk0681]

As a new ham but being exposed at a younger age I liked the idea of working the equipment to get my signal as optimal as possible. I've come into this hobby in an age where everything is button presses. I'm going to design and build my own manual tuner...the last bit of this video pushed me over the edge to manual.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment. You are showing the true spirit of ham radio!

[@gvosgerichian]

Marvelous insight and advice! Bravo!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you!

[@AndrejaKostic]

Special thanks to the author for taking the effort to speak loudly and clearly! Many KZbinrs today seem to pay little attention to the way they actually speak in the videos they make. 73 de YU1NKA

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment, you're welcome! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@donalfinn4205]

This vid has made me think again about my MFJ 939 tuner!👍☘️

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

👍

[@furonwarrior]

You can lower the power to transmit while auto-tuning to prevent hurting the finals. The same argument could be made when manually tuning, you’re spending more time tuning with making micro adjustments which would hurt the finals more… unless you have a NanoVNA or an antenna analyzer to adjust the manual tuner before using on the radio.

[@nr3rful]

You certainly hit the nail on the head with this one. I gave up after replacing finals in my 817 three times . I was using an automatic tuner.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Sorry to hear of the troubles you had. Thank you for sharing your experience, it will hopefully save others from the same fate.

[@forgetyourlife]

3 times? what were you doing wrong? what type antenna? was the radio modified?

[@roybailey6721]

Thanks Tracy, for a very helpful video. I have been toying with the idea of getting an automatic tuner for my FT818, it has made me think again and stick with manual. 73 Roy - G0VFS

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment, Roy! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@darylcheshire1618]

As a newbie, my Icon IC-7300 has a SWR meter and a tuner. I got a manual tuner using the same logic that I should learn to drive a manual car to learn to drive, likewise I should practice on a manual tuner. In my CB days when I didn’t know anything I used to think using an antenna tuner was a form of cheating. CB-ers had to know about SWR and adjusting antennas, but hams just turned a knob.

[@mikeharnett2410]

Thanks Tracy, great video. I've been preaching the merits of manual tuners since the processor-driven tuners came into widespread use about ten or so years ago, but the newbies on my facebook group don't seem to hear my words. Maybe if they hear the same words from you they'll listen. The points you've made are all valid. And in case you think I'm an "auto tuner hater", I regularly use the LDG AT-100ProII with my TS-140S, and the MFJ-939 with my FT-950. Both work very well, but they each have drawbacks too, some of which you've pointed out. Keep up the great work. 73 N5FPO

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Hi Mike, thank you for your sharing your experience, I appreciate it. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@johncliff5417]

A very interesting video Tracy. I first used manual tuners on Brit army transmitters some years ago. They were tuned for max indication on the meter i.e RF current pickup circuitry. So I used to connect up my home brew Ham VSWR meter in line just to check that I was getting the best output/match with a half decent earthing system. I used to get some funny looks until I started to educate my fellow op's in antenna theory. One of my best home brew tuners was a silver coated, 14 SWG copper wire coil, Pi match for a vertical half Rhombic on low band VHF. Worked a treat with QRP both from Germany up into Denmark and in Malaya across from East to West across the jungle using a man pack radio when the Brigade rebroadcast station broke down.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your amazing experiences, John.

[@todkapuz]

definitely agree with the reception and the technical nature of learning how tuning actually works... as for the presenting bad swr to the radio, there are quite a few good designs that don't do that... take the icom AT-140/ah-4 ... it presents a 50 ohm resister to the radio during so the radio always sees basically 1:1 during the tuning process, and it taps off a very small amount of RF to actually put on the line (I believe it is well under 0.1 W radiated while rig is driving 10 W into the tuner). I would say the biggest ADVANTAGE of an automatic tuner is one that is placed AT the antenna. Manual tuners and automatic tuners inside the shack are tuning the antenna AND feedline... and that usually makes the feedline part of the antenna (introducing losses and potential for RFI / noise). An automatic tuner AT the antenna keeps the signal in the coax 50 ohm to the tuner, then matches it at the point that it no longer matters (the antenna). Very much like the guys that use the high-voltage variable caps at base feed of 160 meter and some 80 meter antennas (ie loading a tower)... but yeah, there are days I fight with my ah-4 ... where I know a solution exists, but because of the current solution being weird, it can't find the correct one... sometimes have to change to certain bands to get the tuner to tune a solution that is closer to the desired solution then move back to the desired band before it will figure out.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I didn't know the AH-4 presents a 50 ohm resistor to the radio, very interesting!

[@mdouble100]

Thanks for this wonderful video. My wife Jan (VAEEAC) and me Marvin (VE3VCG) are newly licensed HAM's in Ontario Canada. We're still very much in the learning process when it comes to gear. Your video cleared up a good deal of information about automatic vs manual tunners. I can see the points you've made as being entirely valid up to a certain point. However I think the issue can be put to rest providing that the operator knows their gear well enough. We have a manual tunners at present and have learned a lot just from using if with various antennas. However once we're more experienced we should be able to know how each antenna tunes with a high degree of confidence. With that information in hand we should then know also if an automatic tunner will work properly with a multi-band antenna. I don't really think this is a matter of old school methods vs technology. It's all about knowing the gear.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

I absolutely agree with you, Marvin. Thank you for leaving your comment.

[@davidniemi4051]

Hi Tracy. As a relatively new amateur I'm enjoying going through your videos. I've been watch Julian's channel for a year now and have built up his solar power supply using my own tweaks. Now that winter is over I plan on getting out portable and giving everything a test. de VA3NIE

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Make it happen, David! Julian is a good man. You are going to have a blast with HF portable. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@kd5you1]

The Icom IC-7000's power drops as SWR increases above 2:1. This note can be found on page 15 of the owner's manual. The problem with the IC-7000 is that there is a design flaw. If I recall correctly the original design allowed too much current to flow to or through the finals and would eventually burn them up. I had to send mine in because TX power dropped to about 50% 30 minutes after Field Day started, and Icom replaced the finals and installed a resistor nearby. I saw this procedure in another KZbin video by a non-Icom tech, and he explained that the later designs had this resistor installed. If you use the Icom AH-4 automatic antenna tuner, not only will it drop the output power to 5 watts during tuning, but it will auto tune when needed without the operator having to press Tune, although the Tune button can be used at any time. I think that the manual tuners can be a great learning tool, but the operator would have to remember to drop power output every time tuning is performed unless the tuning was done while receiving only. Auto tuners typically can't be used for higher power whereas some manual tuners can handle 1500 watts.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing this information!

[@kd5you1]

@@OutdoorsOnTheAir You're welcome. 73

[@rrrandommman]

Excellent video, these are the reasons I paired my first HF rig with a small manual tuner.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you!

[@glenmartin2437]

Thank you. I was debating whether to get a manual or automatic tuner. Manual will be best for me now. N0QFT

[@juliocesarpereira4325]

Hi, Tracy. I have a manual tuner, an automatic tuner and also two manual tuners, they're both very big. One is an MFJ loop tuner and another an MFJ-974. You mentioned that one of the advantages of manual tuners is being peak the antenna system to listen to non-ham bands. And that was the reason I acquired them, for I'm more of a listener. I hope to take my recently acquired FT-817ND outside to try and make some contacts. I'm not taking any tuner, instead, I'm going to use an AlexLoop that with a manual variable capacitor and also a device that turns on a led bulb every time you reach optimum tuning. Of course, I can do it just by listening and checking the s-meter o the receiving mode. 73 from PY5WHO.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

That's an interesting setup you have. Thank you for sharing your experience! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@thuff3207]

I do like how your try to give the best information you know. In some cases automatic tuners can be an issue and especially for the FT-817. There I moved the elecraft tuner that allows you to manually adjust the tuner or let it decide. Today it’s much easier to get an automatic turner but I suggest one that has more buttons to allow manual adjustments.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@RadioAdventurer]

I always enjoy watching your video. As a new ham radio operator I enjoy learning from them Keep going! 73!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you and welcome to this great hobby! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@andrewhamop6665]

From what I understand about my transceiver, I believe that it has protection circuitry. It's a Yaesu FT-891, it seems to fair well when I am tuning with my manual tuner. Though my manual tuner can't get the SWR under 2:1, I hope my ATU can do better.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience. A manual tuner that can't tune a 2:1 SWR can't be that good. Never heard of one that couldn't.

[@andrewhamop6665]

@@OutdoorsOnTheAir might have been my antenna, with my new dipole that I made I now get 1:1

[@M6GOF]

My weapon of choice is the Sotabeams Linked Dipole for my portable needs (40, 30, & 20m) but have found my auto tuner to be great for my OFCD while portable (goes into a 4:1 balun). As you said, fine as long as the SWR is no higher than 3:1. My OFCD and auto tuner is very convenient, however - as there's no collapsing the pole to connect/disconnect links to lengthen/shorten the antenna for what band I need. Very useful video with great advice.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for leaving a comment, Mark! Any others reading this should go check out Mark's channel, he's done some very interesting stuff.

[@WA8QFE]

I have several Auto Tuners, including the Z-11 and a Elecraft T1. For Hiking and Camping, I normally take my MFJ-9201. I would recommend this tuner to anyone operating from the forest ! Thanks for you videos, Best 72 es 73 Lee, WA8QFE (BushRadio on BCUSA site)

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment, Lee! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@phredyh]

Thanks Tracy... Great video! It reinforces forces my under standing of antenna turners. Well done. Fred.. KE0EF.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, Fred!

[@thuff3207]

Thank you for the video. I have three automatic LDG tuners for my radios. One is for my FT-817 and is the Z817 that I have use very little. For QRP to me it is better to use resonant antennas to minimize losses. I can say when I have used my Z817 I turn the power down, I think you should always tune a the lowest power you can. You make a very good point on manual tuners, you can use them without transmitting. On that point I plan on getting one.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@DavidS-iw4ei]

Thanks for the info. I use a MFJ-1899T QRP antenna. I can tune the antenna by rising or lowering it. But I'll be looking for a new manual tuner.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for telling me a bit about your experience, David.

[@nateo200]

I have the LDG Z-100Plus ATU. It can tune with as little power as under 1 watt so tend to do that on bands where my ATU can't set a match without a lot of time (vs the under 1 second time it takes to pull up a memory of a frequency or close by the frequency I use a lot) or when I'm trying to tune something I just know it is going to send a lot of RF back down the coax! I will say that the Z11pro or the AT-100 or the AT-200 from LDG offer fine-tuning the tuners "best finding" and the 200watt or even 600watt version in the future is definitely something I'd consider but for now, the Z-100Plus is great because it needs minuscule amounts of power which is great for QRP on the usage but also perfect for a "barefoot" Transceiver like my ICOM IC-718 which is 100watts and interfaces with the Z-100 for both power and tuning via the radios tuner button and some other features.

[@davidvaughn7752]

Hi Tracy! Thank you for going deeper into this issue. It helped me understand the question I asked you about (about using the auto-tuner on my 817ND) which you kindly posted a response to earlier in the month. Yet again another succinct and well-done video from my On-Line-Elmer! 😊 ...73 - K7GYB

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for watching and for your comment, David! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@johnarcher9480]

The only advantage manual tuner have is that they can tune a system with a higher SWR. When using an auto tuner, most rigs will send a very low power signal. And if they don’t, you can turn the power down manually. At 5w, your rig will be in virtually no danger when an auto tuner takes longer to tune. Another benefit of most automatic tuners is memory. It will save your tuning settings so the next time you are on the same frequency, or one very close to it, it can go back to the tuning saved in memory and have you tuned in a fraction of a second. Manual tuners normally have a wider ranger, but that is the main benefit. Tuning at the top of 20m will get you close enough to get a good signal on 15MHz. Not perfect, but good enough to receive.

[@dgafkucky]

auto tuners you can also get a lot smaller and cheaper price some you can even charge now

[@danl2825]

Thanks Tracy for an outstanding video. I always learn something from every one and really do value your insight.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for watching and commenting, Dan!

[@MoTown44240]

Tracy, one additional plus for manual tuners over automatic turners is "batteries not required" for the manual turner. If you are on an extended portable excursion then every device that requires electricity for operation determines the capacity of the battery you will be required to carry. I know from experience that the LDG 817 automatic turner batteries will last about one year but it I go portable, even for a short stay, I take my manual turner rather than my automatic turner. All other points in this video I agree with you. Best 73 Terry KB8AMZ

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Very good point, Terry. Thank you for contributing to the discussion. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@newpatrick8838]

Thanks for the video to which I'd like to add a word about the different kind of tuners available on the market. What is described in the video goes mostly about T-matching circuits and other matching type like Pi, Double-T, L-match...exist. These all serve the same purpose, though they don't have the same specifications or field of use. By this I'd like to tackle the antenna feed impedance for symetric vs. asymetric, centre-fed vs. end-fed, lw.... all require a specific type of matching unit and impedance tuning range. So I'd like to advise all to check which is the most suitable tuner for each antenna configuration. A good source of information is the MFJ webpage (this is not meant to be an ad), go through the specs hand have a look at the schematics. See you on the air and 73's, Patrick - ON4KNP

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for the interesting comment, Patrick. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@eknaap8800]

Although the transceiver 'sees' the correct impedance with an antenna tuner, the radiation levels from the antenna is restricted. I find this drawback worth mentioning if one wants to use a tuner. Therefore a well tuned antenna is much more desirable. 73 from PD0PSX, the Netherlands.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Good point, thank you for sharing. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@timb4655]

Apologies for being late to the party with this video. Really enjoyed it as explained well the pros & cons of both types of tuners. Thank you. 73 de 2E0IEH

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

You're welcome...and thank you for leaving your comment! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@fabiosousa7953]

Hello! I really did not know that the manual tuner had so many advantages. In my base station I do not use tuner because I use one of those antennas similar to Comet CHA-250, the tuning in this type of antenna is instantaneous and automatic, but in portable operations I use an LDG Z-817. It is very fast, but it's true that you expose the radio to a high SWR for a few long seconds. Great video! 73 PY1XR

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Fabio. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@petenikolic5244]

I am unable to operate from home so have no choice but operate HF from the car favorite band 17 Mtrs a manual tuner from the car is difficult to put it lightly i use the LDG Z100 on my FT 857D all mounted out of sight i have modded the LDG using an old 4 pin mic plug and skt i now have a small box with 2 leds and a button mounted just below the radio head . works a treat .. 73 DE G6NJR .

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Sounds like a nice setup, Pete! 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@joeframo3347]

Hello Terry it's been a long time but I got my ft818 an my Rock pal solar generator in the loop antenna I'm ready to rock and roll I'm going to do some KZbin videos thank you for sharing everything you

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Let me know when you start your channel, Joe! I'm looking forward to seeing you in action.

[@nvrumi]

This is an oldie but goodie. I wasn't a ham when it aired. I have both types of matching units in my inventory. I find that the Elecraft ATUs are quite good at finding a proper match. They have a wide impedance matching range as well. Now I'm curious as to whether the LDG ATUs direct the transceiver to reduce power for matching. They are my preferred alternative for those radios that do not have good factory ATUs. Thanks for the video.

[@paulschmolke188]

Yay for my side! My big ol tuner isn’t worthless and it’ll tune virtually anything it comes up against.

[@BustRadioMyths]

The LDG 817 tuner drops the rig's power output while tuning. Thousands of hams have been using them with no widespread complaints. Sounds like a problem that might not exist.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment, Mark. It is appreciated. I'd like to add a few points: - many, many FT-817 owners have had issues with the rigs' final transistors. A good number of FT-817 owners who have been bitten by the failing PA syndrome have reported using the rig with an automatic tuner. In these cases, the finger was pointed to the rig itself and not at the tuner (and as we all know, we need to take the entire system into consideration, not just the rig). - while the Z817 tuner does reduce RF output, that will only happen if the tuner is used with the matching CAT cable. If the rig is only connected to the tuner with coax, that level of protection does not exist. This is true of any brand or model of automatic external tuner. - I showed the LDG in my video as I own two of them and no other brands. Definitely not my intent to single out LDG. - reducing power and exposing the rig to very high SWR levels for an extended period will not eliminate the possibility of damage to the finals. In my estimation, the danger to the rig outweighs the convenience provided by the automatic tuner. It sounds like your experience has been different. I wish you continued success in your radio adventures. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM

[@WadeAbout]

Agree on preferring resonate antennas - just built a linked dipole 40/20/15/10 based on the VK1AD design. I only use a tuner at home on a random long wire and the z817 seems to handle the bands I want ok. VK1FWBD

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment, Wade!

[@regularguy519]

Demo video would be great in this subject!

[@W6OWH]

Thanks for the comparison... was outdoors yesterday with MFJ big ears and tried automatic and manual and the manual lets me see the swr down to almost zero where as with the auto-tuner I was in the dark about the actual swr. My autotuner was the LDG 100 likein the video. I'll stick with the manual. N6BOB

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Hi Bob! Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@thormusique]

Thanks very much for this great video! I wholeheartedly agree that a manual tuner makes much more sense. One additional plus: Manual tuners tend to be passive and don't require external power, except perhaps for the LED that illuminates a meter. A little automation is fine, but some things can definitely be done better and more efficiently manually. Btw, I do subscribe to Julian's wonderful channel as well. 73 de K1RSK.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Great point, thank you for sharing! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@smartazz61]

Oh! Your videos are very well done as well.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you!

[@wadepatton2433]

I generally pre-tune with the manual tuner and then only let the auto/built-in tuner catch the bandwidth issues on the wider bands. Also my rig quits auto-tuning if you hit the "tune" button again while it's surfing around for a better impedance.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Good practice, Wade. That's a nice feature your autotuner has.

[@watthairston1483]

Very good treatise of the antenna auto-tuner subject. Money spent on auto-tuners perhaps is better spent on a dedicated antenna analyzer or noise bridge in the shack with a manual tuner. Saves the stress on the rig and spares other HAM's of annoying QRM related to on air tune-ups. Many thanks... 73. de K4WRF

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Solid advice, thank you for your comment! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@steveroberts3512]

Very good points. I much prefer a more hands on approach. The newer all encompassing transceivers such as the ic7300 although excellent for automatic use, take the fun out of it for me.

[@rodneyjohnson4794]

i like to be hands on. i have an ldg z817 i bought several years ago. i used it a couple of times, but i wanted to be more interactive, soooo, back in the box it went. nice gear, though.

[@lambertpga]

Thank You for this very usefull video. Greetings from Belgium.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment! 73 from Canada.

[@bronsonreed]

Very helpful! I opted for a Dentron Jr. Monitor manual tuner for my setup. It would be great to hear about portable operation considerations based on your experience!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Good choice you made there with the Dentron! Check out some of my 2017 portable operations videos for more information on using tuners in a portable setting.

[@orangeandslinky]

I really needed to know what you know about antenna tuners.

[@trig6712]

Hi Tracy I have an Automatic LDG for my 817 and use an MFJ 949 Manual tuner for the FT897 etc.Excellent being 76 have used many tuners in my time and tuned many older radios as well so know what you are on about exactly but excellent as always my 73 Trig

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Hi Trig! Thank you for watching and for your comment. Be well, my friend.

[@q07906]

A couple of points i disagree on, in some cases resonant antennas off-shelf may have poor performance and swr, all dependant on the location of the install. I own several big brand EFHW multi band antennas and installed 7ft off the ground next to a house they are worse (swr and performance wise) that a compromised WL horizontal loop type wire with a 4:1 balun. In regards to built in tuners and the picture of IC-7300, the atu in there will not tune anything higher than 3 and is next to useless, compared to some of the qrp tuners like ZM-2 or Elecraft T1. Other than that, fantastic video!

[@paulblack3966]

Great overview. Thank you!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

thank you for your comment, Paul!

[@recumbentogiro26]

Thank You. I'm new and trying to figure out what things are necessary and what isn't.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

You're welcome!

[@n2jmb]

Fantastic video!! Thanks for sharing with us!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, and you're welcome!

[@kevinokeefe7796]

I thought the auto tuners lowered the power before starting the cycle. If the correct tuner and cable are used that is. I use the ldg z100pro with a yaesu ft891 and was under the impression once the correct yeasu cable was used when i hit the tune button the ldg lowered the power on the rig so as to not cause blown finals. Is this true or am i doing something I should be worried about

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

You are correct, that tuner and the matching interface cable will reduce power before transmitting.

[@Mr_Meowingtons]

Yeah when the Radio is paired with an auto tuner the Radio will drop Down to 10 or 5w in tuning mode well all my radios do. I think a lot of what he is talking about was with older radios and is not an issue at all on today's radios and the way they control power output. back then you may have had to turn your power down befor running the tuner.. so if you lets say are putting out 100w and have 10 watts reflected that is 2:1 rounding up.. so if we put 10w in to the tuner and it is running through a bad match the max your finals are going to see is 10w back.. that is not a grate deal of power and shod never hurt your radio at all.

[@Stingmni]

Nice explanation

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you!

[@warrenherdic3977]

thank you hit the it very good, thanks so much, you helped a lot new hams...

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, Warren!

[@budiwaluyo6895]

i have that IC 7200 radio and Japanese tuner Comet but, my antenna is doublet mfj 1777, please advise me how about choke current balun to protect over load of RFI backward ? thank you and hope stay healthy with us, Sir

[@budiwaluyo6895]

you do know that my radio don't have internal tuner?

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Hi, to answer your question about RF on the feedline, check out my video on line isolators: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5WtgnmNg9R5lbM

[@cmj20002]

I have to agree, but the auto tuners are neat and in most cases pretty fast. My radio has a built in tuner, but using an antenna that is for a specific band is a good idea for sure.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@applemachome]

I learned from this thank you

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for your comment! You're welcome 😀

[@davem7847]

Hi Tracy, I was curious about your video on manual versus automatic tuners while manual tuners give you more control, automatic antenna tuners will work as well as long as you turn the power down so you don't stress out your finals. Addressing your comment about the ft-817, I talked to Yaesu technical support today and they said that both the original ft 817 and the ft-817nd models have cut back circuits on them. Since the LDG Z-817 will work down to 0.1 watt turn the power down if you are concerned before doing a tuning cycle. Dave Black

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Hi Dave, thank you for the information on the protection circuits on the 817 and 817ND. I didn't know about that. Regardless, take a look at the eHam reviews of the 817 and you will see plenty of people reporting failed finals while using the rig with automatic tuners. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.

[@johnarcher9480]

@goinghomesomeday1 Of course, no tuner can tune to zero. At best 1:1 That said, even a 1.5:1 match will not show a significant reduction in performance. Honestly, anything below the drop down of the radio (usually 2:1 or higher) you will see no difference. The antenna is still at the same SWR, it’s just that the radio doesn’t see it. And the short length of coax between a tuner in the shack and the radio isn’t going to reduce the power at a level measurable without high end lab equipment. The BEST performance, with a radio using coax, will be with an auto tuner mounted at or very near the antenna feedpoint. There you eliminate most of the losses in your coax from a high VSWR.

[@YO2DA]

Super video about the tuners! Great job!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you!

[@dadofmichelle]

Can you list any rigs that have a reputation for getting their finals blown? You listed 2 fairly new models, which surprised me, as I thought that HF rigs have had the SWR rollback feature since the late 1980s. I'm looking to add an old rig like an 857 or 706 for SOTA, which is why I'm curious, but a complete list would be helpful. Nice presentation and good info in this video, by the way.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Great question. Since most quality rigs started employing high SWR rollback, the incident of "troublesome" units has dropped significantly. The only one that comes to mind as a recent example is the FT-991 (not the 991A). Older models know for blown finals include the FT-817 and the Icom 706 and 746 series. I hasten to point out that I have owned all of those models over the years (exception of the 991) and none of them ever gave me an issue. I'm not aware of a comprehensive list.

[@JohnnyRebKy]

I'm considering buying one for my Mobil CB. I have OCD about SWR and I'm constantly checking it and it drives me nuts when it's uneven. If I could shorten or lengthen the antenna by tuning a knob to make it perfect I would be happy 😂.

[@jackielarsen7517]

10:25 very good learning.

[@4dailyrunner]

Watched you video while attempting to decide to add a manual tuner. Manual tuners seem to be able to handle additional power levels where rig ATU’s are geared toward 100watts or less.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

In some cases they can, just keep an eye on the specs before pulling the trigger on one.

[@francescosilvi654]

Great video . i use alwais , in my QRP acivity , a simple wire and one L/c tuner ... Tracy , you are a very tacher ! Franz as ik0 rks ...vy '73

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Grazie, Francesco! 73 from VE3TWM.

[@shoppersplace]

Some of my apartment antennas require the manual tuner, mfj 969 and some the auto tuner built into the rig yaesu ft 900. But never both at the same time.

[@alejandro-lu8ach377]

Excellent Videoooo!!!! Thanks for sharing!!! Alejandro LU8ACH

[@davidj.wilcox6053]

Very well put! I agree 100%. I have both but rarely use my automatic tuners except in my Elecraft rigs. Also keep track of your tuner knob settings on the manual tuner. If they somehow in this tuneup don't come close to the last time you used it there might be an antenna problem...... Like it fell down in last nights wind storm or a wire broke in the connector...... It's a great antenna tester, something an automatic tuner won't tell you. Dave K8WPE

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you for these great tips, Dave!

[@MauriatOttolink]

Surely tune-up is carried out at very low power levels? Icom tend to be so low that signal used is too low to radiate as QRM.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Good point. Many ops don't start out with the power low when they tune.

[@markhadley1545]

Fantastic voice

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Thank you, Mark!

[@jerryfelty7374]

Wouldn't it help to lower your power to about 10 watts to use the automatic tuner? To save the finals.

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Yes, it would!

[@nufsanuf]

Hi tracie Can you advise me setting up a yaesu frg 8800 receiver with a long wire. I've got a auto atu and separate swr. All this was given to me. Could u put a vid together to show how a receiver set up should be put together please. Thanks Mike. Wales. UK..

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

Hi Mike! An ATU is designed for use with a transmitter. You can't use one with a receiver as the ATU uses the transmit power to tune. Find yourself a good manual tuner and start enjoying that receiver. Then consider studying to get your ham license 👍

[@DD-gd3fr]

I 👍 thank you great knowledge

[@thormusique]

Thanks again, Tracy! I've found this video so informative that this is the third time I've watched it. :-) I'm about to buy a manual tuner, but I'm having trouble deciding which to buy! I'd like it to be fully featured, and I love the idea of a decently sized, easily readable meter, but I'd also like it to be one that I can take out in the field, as I prefer portable communications to sitting behind a desk (too much like work!). So I'd truly appreciate any recommendations you might have. Thanks again and 73!

[@OutdoorsOnTheAir]

This is tricky as I don't want to offend anyone. Oh well, here goes. I avoid accessories made by a certain 3-letter manufacturer that starts with "M" due to production quality concerns. Look for a good used Yaesu or Kenwood manual tuner. You might have to wait for a while, but they were built to last for years.

[@thormusique]

@@OutdoorsOnTheAir Ah, interesting! And I hear you. I've been a tad concerned about that myself. I will definitely take your advice, thanks!