Automations Beta Terrifies Me - Space Engineers

[@a.retired.villain]

When I can build an AI to seek and destroy only Aaron, then I will consider it complete.

[@onerxowns2202]

Technically it is perfectly possible

[@kamounknown6857]

​@onerxowns2202 haha time to make it happen 🤣

[@raythe9264]

That is not very retired of you xD

[@a.retired.villain]

@@raythe9264 I retired and then was bored so have picked up the villainy again on a part time basis. I still consider myself retired because I haven't tried to blow up a whole nation, but a bank here and there, or an assassination of a you-tuber, they're like hobbies.

[@ConstyC]

do note that the current beta build is different from the inhouse dev build according to aragath, alot of the bugs in the beta build are already fixed (circle/stay at range facing the rear end of the ship when engaging, crashing when searching, etc etc) he was also confused why the beta build given to us was outdated lol

[@TheOofertaffy]

Why did they give us an out of date beta build?

[@invictus4050]

@@TheOofertaffy Not even they know, according to the post you're replying to.

[@sierra1513]

where did they say this?

[@TheOofertaffy]

@@invictus4050 Ok so did they say if they will update and possibly extend the beta due to this mixup?

[@ConstyC]

@@sierra1513 non-officially. aragath plays frequently with us on the naval battles server, and he mentioned it at some point after beta dropped

[@J19937]

They're really missing a couple of blocks, in my opinion; one that can read GPS and Ore detector, and another than can handle communication (antenna/laser antenna read-write), so we could automate mining and dispatching/updating drone orders.

[@Erik_Ice_Fang]

And I think reading weapon activity would fill that out. The antenna one is the most important missing one though.

[@antwarior]

definitely

[@cristiancamargo3240]

Just send to them bro, up this topic on the steam, i'm preaty sure that they can put this since this is just a beta, if the community finds interesting they certainly can add these few lines of extra code, we need to put these ideias on the forums to be implemented, the devs need to know what the people want in the game to put it on the game if it realy makes sense, like these things for example.

[@Tonatsi]

@@cristiancamargo3240 KSH has a track record of having extremely selective hearing, and just about not responding at all to requests made by players.

[@cristiancamargo3240]

@@Tonatsi This is sad, but there is a chance of raising the topic with a lot of engagement for them to notice and respond to the request, these are not bad ideas, making auto mining possible without a script for example is something that would make many things possible in space engineers, especially making it possible larger empires due to the ease of resource extraction, of course it will be necessary to see performance and everything but, however, it would be very cool to see

[@adyne7887]

I find that the AI stuff is very tedious to set up. For example, I make a combat drone with movement and combat AI and an event controller, so it automatically returns and docks with a carrier when fuel is low or it is too damaged. That takes ages to set up and when the drone gets destroyed and has to be replaced you can do it all over again. Maybe some way to export the settings, like some text you can copy-paste between AI blocks, but I'm not sure that works well with multiple AI blocks interacting with each other.

[@LastStandGamers]

That is a great idea giving this one the thumb up.

[@tael3081]

Settings tend to stick to blueprints as long as things get welded in the proper order, have you considered engineering a printable drone?

[@generaljedi8691]

Hope so, the offensive AI interception setting sounds like a good way to make vanilla homing missiles. But groups and settings need to be able to stick to blueprints

[@vedritmathias9193]

Do the AI block settings/configurations not save to a blueprint?

[@monad_tcp]

Space Engineers need a system to set up docks ports as waypoints, and then the AI just have to path between fixed waypoints, and then you can just set rules for what to move from one dock port to another. And this needs to some kind of global system, or a way to connect them with antennas into a network, so you can command it together. I would model the UI in the way trains work in Factorio.

[@ALPHABARLOG]

Tried autopilot block to simply move an atmosphere ship from A to B in one way, 66 km away. Set it to 0 degrees pitch/roll in gravity, 100m minimum altitude. Ship drifted left, forward and 45 degrees up, missed 10 km, realised it, tried to stop and crashed to the groud. Not to mention permanent thrust on all direction thrusters and consuming *a lot more power* then needed just to move forward. Useless blocks. Any event in controller can be programmed with prog block, dozens of scripts are in workshop.

[@badgerwildgaming6908]

Put a hydrogen thruster on top that's not hooked up.

[@wailfulcrab]

There is also something that slipped through the radar, Custom Turret Controller have a tick box to target the sun to make auto aligning solar panels not requiring a script.

[@jjbandit3355]

Oh that's very nice!

[@sgtdavscuba]

I had a load of trouble with the collision avoidance. Trying to get them to go around an asteroid it struggles

[@LastStandGamers]

Fingers crossed they now have a chance to get working on the issues before release. I think this beta was a good idea as if it was released like this people would not be happy.

[@sgtdavscuba]

@@LastStandGamers yes, it was good that they auto opened the feedback page when you closed the game too. I put quite a bit on there so hopefully it'll help them out.

[@Banana_Zach]

I am very excited. The event controller is what I have wanted more than the other blocks. A single event controller block can replace handfuls of timer blocks that i have janked together for various purposes.

[@SomeD00D01]

Do remember it's a beta not a update yet

[@JonnesTT]

A beta is supposed to have all systems working correctly already. Just not balanced yet and the more esoteric bugs are still in there. The combat looks mostly like a beta, buggy and probably unbalanced but looks fun and inspires to play more. The navigation looks like it just doesn't work.

[@LastStandGamers]

Exactly that's why we need to provide feedback that it needs work. If we say nothing and just shrug because its a beta they will think all is okay.

[@pr0hobo]

@@LastStandGamers exactly. if this was an alpha, that's when you expect ideas and concepts to fail potentially more than 50% of the time, where ass since this is a beta, concepts SHOULD be fleshed out and working more than half the time with only a few bad bugs. Its seams more like its in late alpha than in beta and that's upsetting and we need to let them know that stuff needs improvement for an update called automaton.

[@Prestiged_peck]

​@LastStandGamers I wonder if maybe they could advance the replay tool with machine learning algorithms? Basically, you set an AI up on your own ship, and it can take in tons of data as you use the ship and slowly improve behavior?

[@LastStandGamers]

@@Prestiged_peck That sounds rather advanced from the AI that we have at the moment but would be super cool though.

[@lastwymsi]

With the insane creations people figured out how to make using modular tools like Minecraft's redstone, or Factorio's digital control components, I am sure soon this community will create some absolutely spicey blueprints for usefull AIs. Id love to see what this does when further polished.

[@gavinmitchell3709]

* sees intercept * * sees what it does * * immediately builds a boarding torpedo *

[@nativeforeigner]

Open Beta releases for public testing Right clicks Space Engineers in Steam List Select Properties in dropdown menu Clicks BETAS in window Click OPT INTO BETA Select Automotons BETA from dropdown menu Space Engineers become Space Engineers(automotons beta) in Steam list Tests BETA over the course several days posts results KZbin Comments: YoU KnOw ItS a BeTa RigHT?

[@LastStandGamers]

It's just the way we have been conditioned by modern gaming.😃

[@AndrewTFenn]

"It's beta" has been the go to reason to protect Keen from any criticism for years. No surprise there.

[@Sky14657]

@@AndrewTFenn Everything is Beta as soon as Keen is sure it doesn't work. Everything else is called a DLC 😁

[@jonathancole5179]

@@Sky14657 This is the only beta in a while. The beta is simply a test phase. Let the players discover problems and give ideas.

[@IsfetSolaris]

Really wish they would work with some modders like cheerkin, overwerk, or whiplash. They've made amazing drone and missile scripts and could absolutely have helped with a lot of these issues. For now, I'll stick with Artemis and APCK for my drones and missiles, bit it definitely has potential.

[@QualityPen]

This is exactly what I was thinking. I was originally semi-excited for this release, but having tried the beta, I think it’s largely just what we already had via script blocks but… Worse. That’s not to say this update doesn’t have potential. The missile (intercept) functionality and event controller are going to be useful on no-script servers… But they’re just so clunky and limited compared to scripts.

[@JuniperFinch538]

There's a feature the event controller definitely needs: It should be able to detect the On/Off state of a block, i don't know where i should submit feedback about it

[@Sky14657]

How about Keen? There is a forum for requests on their site, you can try via Steam, too (where you probably get the Keen software site anyway).

[@oscarwebb2382]

You should submit them so that the dev's at least hear about them

[@JuniperFinch538]

@@oscarwebb2382 do you have any links to where it should be submitted?

[@mindmachinepsy]

I mean it's a beta for that exact reason. They said it ain't ready and want the player feedback to find things they need to work on. I'm 100% certain that it will be much better, if it's gonna be really ready for release we'll see when it comes.

[@LastStandGamers]

Well we can only hope that they can get the pathfinding nailed down as without it its not really ai. I was hoping for some pre-built functions like dock at this connector rather than having to makeway point machines.

[@tackytrooper]

@@LastStandGamers Indeed, having to manually map waypoints in order to dock means we're literally back at square one with the original remote control block again.

[@malcontender6319]

I just want a.i. enemies added to survival, that's all. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable, like npc engineers that do everything a player does and build from preset blueprints... like a normal game would've had literally years ago by this point. No, I'm just asking for basic a.i. - the kind that can properly path a mine route by itself, ect. we already have PAM and the many other modded a.i. scripts. Using 4 to 5 different a.i. blocks and having to set multiple functions for each just seems like another massive pain, that state block is going to be even worse. Also consider what an incredible strain running dozens or possibly hundreds of badly coded drones is going to put on the average servers sim speed. I don't have the patience for this anymore.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

I was able to build very compact missiles in the update, I think Vertical missile cells may become surprisingly viable in the near future.

[@cv368]

I think, depending on the variety of events it can be triggered by, the event controller really is what we all have been trying to get with our massive timer block pillars, sensor arrays or custom scripts over the years, so that one makes me happy. But as i am not much into drones, i would be contend with basic maneuvers like autodocking on command or collision avoiding while on cruise control anyways

[@icyartillery9027]

The fact that henevent controller doesn’t just have a flat list of states for every block ie merge block connected/not, light on/off is a bit concerning for me

[@tackytrooper]

The teaser made it look like it would have way more options than it does. I am a bit disappointed honestly.

[@lamebubblesflysohigh]

The inability of navigating through voxels is really disappointing.

[@TBC256]

I think it is as they said: Mostly for console players that have no way of having programmable behavior. I don't really see the collision avoidance behavior as an issue. It looks mostly like something for avoiding crashes into asteroids or other ships rather than something to rely on for navigating tunnels and tight spaces. For PC players the greatest addition is the event controller block.

[@pman8312]

Finally I can build huge armies without hiring a.million people

[@Scarofman]

please remember to leave keen a feedback for better performance of the ai :)

[@LastStandGamers]

That the most important part ;]

[@null_focus5512]

All AI is just following waypoints. It's called a node, forming a node map (which I am sure you have heard of as a gamer). An AI uses a node map to determine where it can go and how it can get there. The Flight Recorder isn't just a replay because it can be combined with other AI to dynamically respond to problems on that path. The problem here is that the AI doesn't recognize nodes in the voxels which means that voxels either don't have nodes or they don't have the logic to update to accessible when the player mines away at them. Remember video game AI isn't true AI. It's responding to inputs with a limited set of responses, not learning to truly dynamically work within a simulates environment. Can it be better? Yes. Is it already better than the Ship AI was previously? Hell yes. And it's a beta so a lot of your concerns will probably be addressed by full release

[@pr0hobo]

It feels like warfare 3. Like they didn't even put in the bare minimum for any application of drones apart from combat and waypoints. Seriously where is my mining drone. If I had to relegate only one job to drones it would be mining not combat. What about auto repair or salvage drones? Asteroid scouting drones that set gps markers if they find ore or enemy outposts? What about contacting other drones; like say a resource hauler gets attacked so it flees and sends a signal to base for reinforcements and sends a gps marker to the grid owner. For an Automaton update that's been in the works for way lounger than any other update recently, and with keens other company GoodAI (an actual ai research company if you couldn't guess), this is a bit of a let down. Yeah I've seen the comments saying this is an outdated build or that its a solution just to help xbox players with no scripts or saying that it will improve drastically after beta, but that's just it; BETA. Not alpha where things don't really work in sync and ideas are still being thrown around, but Beta- where the ideas are solidified and finalized with bugs being worked out. Few to no new features ai related will likely show unless they do a second ai update or lock them behind a paywall dlc. No ai rovers, no ai mining/salvaging/repairing, no ai network communication, no gps, no mixed waypoint/task looping. Just slightly improved ai combat (which is nice but not grounds for an update about revolutionizing ai), mildly better auto cargo transport, and a new way to do waypoints.

[@AndrewTFenn]

Finally someone that gets it.. "lets make drones that do all the fun things such as combat while players are stuck mining and scouting for ore all the time". What a boring concept. "Lets make weather with lighting that breaks your buildings so you can waste more time repairing them again!" it's like keen has zero idea of how to make this game fun. They just see it as a sandbox only.

[@pr0hobo]

@@AndrewTFennits so hard to have fun rp-ing when survival is so slow and hard to introduce to friends in an interesting way. If i could tell my friends to mine for 5 minutes get a supper small minner built then mine with that for another 10 minutes and get enough to turn the minner into a drone, then from then on we could just work on everything else. SE is like trying to play factorio without minners rn.

[@onerxowns2202]

From The Depths only have ONE block called Mainframe, and it have all the features AI need

[@Comicsluvr]

I also had an annoying number of crashes. When testing the Event Controller, I was trying bog-simple stuff like 'When Cargo Container X is 75% full, turn on the Conveyor Sorter'. The whole thing was attached to the grinding bed from the Earth Base. Every time I started grinding a ship, the game crashed. The drones I built to test the Attack controller also did not move around much but then I was using converted ships and not dedicated drones so that may have made a difference for some reason. I'd be happy with more options on the Event Controller and send the AI back to R&D for another pass.

[@Hyperexecubewastaken]

This would have been perfect for drones from the colony survival series its sad that you left the series but atleast you went out with a bang

[@petrus6877]

Even putting aside the issues with the AI pathfinding, as much as I enjoy the Event Handler, I do feel like there's a handful of triggers that are still missing. It would be really nice if we could use it to trigger events when the grid locks onto an enemy target, not just whatever the AI blocks themselves can do when that happens. I also noticed that the Event Handler's "setup actions" option seemed to have many potential inputs/outputs, but the game doesn't really make it clear if the Event Handler can deal with different inputs/outputs. It would be nice to be able to easily compartmentalize all of that, but I don't know for certain if it's supposed to or not.

[@RandomYT05_01]

Imagine though if more advanced AI's came to the game, and there was a mode where you could do "Robot Uprising" where the machines you create end up going rogue within the game and you have to fight back against them or flee, and the AI robots can make more of themselves and whatnot.

[@tael3081]

Semi-possible to already do. I played a server where the admin had designed a mobile sprt-drone factory, the autopilot would fly it in a big circle around the edge of the map and periodically spit out half a dozen drones. No mods, no scripts (other than the standard pirate drone script), just timer blocks, sorters, sensors, and sub-grids.

[@Leffrey]

I think the two main issues with the AI as it stands are: Colission avoidance is very weak and drones have no plan for if they get stuck. Without colission avoidance, these drones will require a lot of care, can't be used in certain circumstances and will be in need of repairs if they even manage to return to base. The whole point of an AI drone outside of combat would be to not have to worry about certain tasks, but instead you can't really rely on them to even fly from A to B. If the drone gets stuck on blocks or voxels, there's no part of the AI that says "okay, clearly I can't make it to this waypoint, lemme back up and reroute". So if they're stuck, they can really only try and brute force their way through, which doesn't work 9 out of 10 times.

[@aaronfulton9217]

only thing that I have been able to get working well is AAM and AGM. (The AI is really good at crashing in to things)

[@Ziplock9000]

Your the only one of the big SE KZbinrs who actually bothered to test pathfinding, following and waypoints on anything other than essentially empty space or on a planet with no obstacles.

[@EricGamer87365]

We need the official inhouse dev build before I Can say if the update is ready or not. For Some Reason Unknown to God the Build we have is very outdated from the Inhouse Dev Build. I Need to see how that build is coming along before I can say if the update is ready or not.

[@kevinking8603]

What I found is that the follow home essentially stops working when it catches up and gets into the preset range. Basically if you had it set to follow one ship that you are flying in a start - stop manor it will more stop following once it gets close and you have to tell it to follow again. Making it rather difficult to make an escort fighter. Was able to get one to dock up when the batteries got low successfully using event controller to hit play on a recorded task block

[@Erik_Ice_Fang]

That "follow home" issue really saddened me.

[@18JEFF18]

With the event controller, you can set it up so that if a battery gets low it can trigger a reactor or h2 engine on, then when battery is full trigger it off, set the % however you like, good for conserving resources while keeping your base powered

[@Sky14657]

And that's really great. I'm using a script doing the same for a few years now, using a programmable block instead of an event controller. What a relief. I bet the event controller is 0.0003 ms faster. (included sarcasm is free of charge, you can use it as you want).

[@thedaveed1]

@@Sky14657I think you know this already, and that you are deliberately ignoring it, but I'm going to say it anyway. Some worlds and servers don't have scripts enabled. So the event controller makes life much better for those worlds.

[@AveryChristy]

Compared to the Red, Blue, Salvage, Incisor, Assailant, Attack, and Raider drones, I see no difference in behavior.

[@QualityPen]

This update seems more like a repackaging of existing SE pathfinding than anything revolutionary… Not impressed.

[@AveryChristy]

@@QualityPen Yeah, I agree. It's underwhelming.

[@datman6266]

Missiles, cargo, events, solar tracker, combat, defense, proper tank controls.. much good stuff. I also need a miner ai and im good for the time being.

[@juper0]

control panel on the ai blocks will be the first mod!

[@Leffrey]

I've also discovered that the AI doesn't update its pathing mid flight, without reaching a GPS point. So if it's trying to navigate through a ship and you close a passage it was going to go through, it'll smack straight into it and keep trying to fly through the wall. Same with hangar doors. Plus they can be very unsure of what they can actually fly throught, like catwalks on the ground

[@death13a]

It would be good if event controller also had options for 1 hinges and rotors 2 air vents to see if room pressurized or not, 3 antenna if it detects grid in range or not. For bases to detect if drone was destroyed or went out antenna range. 4 welder to see if welding cannot be completed due to lack of items or if welding is completed and allow event controller to order assamble 5 check items in container.

[@ocu5850]

They never said the AI would be smart

[@jerryplayz101]

unfortunately... as a person currently studying at Uni in the field of AI, it hurts that they call a glorified pathfinding algorithm, 'AI'. I hope they develop it further.

[@tackytrooper]

The missile knows where it is part of the time. It knows this because it knows where it might have been, and it knows where it is supposed to be, but doesn't care that much.

[@RichyN25]

It's limited, but it's promising

[@pman8312]

Robots revolution is coming they will dominate entire servers.

[@nvfury13]

Interesting, the behaviors with the drones seem to match the ASSERT drones for behavior…but takes two blocks to do the “shoot until you can’t, then ram” behavior they have.

[@Cloakdasasin0]

My biggest complaints about the AI blocks are that they don't intercept very well with only one thrust direction and that the game crashes when you print them and the printed missiles AI often doesn't engage, it can even break timer blocks set to turn it on causing every timer action to fail.

[@LastStandGamers]

The AI really needs thrust in all directions to be able to calculate. Perhaps we will see that change in the future.

[@-_Dawg_-]

On top of that, if you have multiple missiles merged to your ship, and you launch them. The ai block gets disabled rendering it useless, and you have to re-paste it in.

[@secretmink8389]

@@-_Dawg_-hats interesting. Do you know if it works with rotor detaching or is it just merge blocks. Could also be a naming misconfig if you have multiple missiles each with the same names for their ai blocks Try giving each missiles ai blocks a different number after them to differentiate

[@-_Dawg_-]

@@secretmink8389 i think it confuses the ai blocks if they're all same grid, i tested with connectors and they worked fine. It was only when they were merged to the same grid with another ai block, that it was having issues. This applied when i made a drone that could launch missiles from it. Also using the merge block. I think if you separated them into their own subgrid, like rotors or hinges it might work better

[@secretmink8389]

@@-_Dawg_- in theory they should work with multiple on the same grid, since they want you to combine multiple different ai functions on the same grid to achieve your goals. Im not at my pc so cant test myself, but im pretty sure giving them unique names will solve the problem, as I encountered something similar with identically named rotors and the custom turret controller

[@charleshughes2683]

Aaron I must say I have enjoyed the last few weeks of your videos. I like the fact you are doing more informative content now than previously. Have also been enjoying your server tours. Keep up the good work mate! 👌

[@friendlytravelagent7784]

I'm having trouble getting drones to be created by my ship, then automatically follow it & engage enemies when possible

[@tinonoman5831]

Navigating the static maze was not too bad actually as collision detection and being aware of your own bounding box is pretty difficult, it does make the path, it just bumps the walls a bit.

[@Anuwabu]

I didn't have much luck with the AI navigation either. Slapped a basic follow me at 15 meters into one of my robots and it really struggled to follow me indoors. Open space outside was a bit better until it randomly decided to fly up to 200 meters before remembering it's supposed to be at 15 meters and crashing itself to avoid having to work.

[@bernardodallacosta8684]

i think the event controller could have more events, 2 that i was really hoping for is weapon and thruster firing, i was realy hoping to use weapon firing to my heavy flak custon turret, because i need to activate a rotor to it to fire, but i don't know how to let the custom turret controler do that, and the thruster firing would be realy cool to have, you can use it as a WASD converter or to altomate gravity drive intertia dumpining

[@congareel]

100% agree so I managed to kind of create WASD converter by firing thrusters at blocks, damaging them, using the event controller to detect the damage, using a welder to weld it back up...a very obviously overcomplicated solution. What this really needs is an ' on key press in cockpit' function this would solve about a million problems with control. Isnt that what this block should be about? Control?

[@bernardodallacosta8684]

@@congareel i thinked about doing this way, but man thats LOTS of components, do you have any idea for weapon fired?

[@congareel]

Not sure maybe using a sorter block to pull ammo from a container when weapon is fired for a split second the cargo will fall below threshold? Haven’t looked at that in game but, might work?

[@bernardodallacosta8684]

@@congareel does the event block have cargo detection? if yes, can it see inside a autocannon for exemple? if that is true might be a way to do it...

[@numudomo]

kinda saddens me that the "Remote Control Block" lost it's "align on gravity" ability with the new update (was default before the update)

[@WizardBrandon]

the event controller just feels like what the timer block was meant to be tbh.

[@demonoftheweb]

Heck if you play with Revers you can now build a better decoy drone for them to chase. From what i've seen and heard you will need to have the flight and defense ai blocks on the same small grid. Depending on how you set it up you may want an event ai as well to turn on a beacon after it moves away from your ship to really encourage the revers to give chase. This is still in the works as well so send a bug report to help them help us.

[@panzerkampfwagenviiimaus3976]

I made a surface to air missiles with it but the ai is not even smart

[@pariahdevalis]

Trying to find a workaround for my missile, and failing. If a launch platform has multiple missiles on it, it keeps disabling all but one of the AI blocks available. Even if the setup is such that there is only ever a single active AI block. Current logic is: 1. Timer disconnects connector and merge block, starts second timer. 2. Second timer activates all thrusters, arms warheads, turns on both AI blocks, and ENABLES AI control on both AI blocks. Despite the AI Blocks starting in the off position and despite activation of them happening after it is its own independent grid, outside of the first missile launched, the other missiles show as AI DISABLED in their detail tab once "launched," making them totally inert. I've even tried multiple blueprints with everything assigned to uniquely labeled groups as opposed to just calling the blocks directly in the timers. Any ideas on how to make multiple missiles on a single launch platform actually, ya know... work?

[@PrimordialNightmare]

a thing that might be interesting or useful would maybe be to use event controller and timerblocks on drones to activate gyro and thrust overrides to do some very basic evasive maneuvering.

[@tigersfangs305]

I've experienced a lot of the bugs that you mentioned, plus some others. Like for me the "Circle/Orbit" attack pattern only works if I manually force it to face the right way. Setting it to "Use Static Weapons" makes it face 90° in the wrong direction. Seems to face the "UP" direction instead of the "FORWARD" direction. I didn't mess with mazes and following since I can't get the AI to figure out how to do a simple vertical dock at an unobstructed connector that's out in the middle of an open field. It DID navigate around a wall that I put on it's way, but then got confused above the connector itself. I've also tried getting the "AI Functions" to display on the HUD, and only ever got it to show a single waypoint once despite trying it with every build. And yes, I enabled the options and had an antenna setup correctly. Not enough debug info to figure out what it's doing or what I'm doing wrong. The Event Controller is AMAZING. Only issue was figuring out which slot triggers when. Only "bug" was user error. Still can't work out how you're supposed to be able to use multiple toolbars on it and do complex actions though. Overall, there is a LOT of potential. Even with the small things like the 1x1 SG connectors and the solar tracking CTC. I agree that releasing the bulk of the update would be a massive improvement when without the AI. The AI has SO much potential, but I think that it needs some more ironing. As you mentioned pathfinding with mods, I kept thinking of half a dozen scripts that can get ships to reliably dock with minimal setup, some can handle some pretty complex docking too. Obvious bugs aside, I am REALLY impressed with the AI and the way that this update is shaping up. I have lots of big plans for AI, but the major bugs will need to be worked out first.

[@Crytum]

the pathfinding on the grid AI is really not that good i hope they improve on that. Otherwise had a lot of fun with making guided torpedos and am now experimenting with the idea to make it fire a railgun before impact.

[@r3dp9]

It would probably help if players could tell the AI what the size and placement of the ship hitbox is. Between thruster damage, angled parts, and ships that are longer on one dimension, it's a bit tricky for for ships to know their own effective pathfinding hitbox.

[@Crytum]

@@r3dp9 the pathfinding breaks sometimes even if you make it pilot a sphere

[@HmmWelp]

From the release of space engineers I have always wanted to build a mega Corp, the one issue has always been lack of any true ai to operate the ships being produced. I am rather excited for this.

[@Boltron]

after testing the live DLC . i think the best thing that can improve the Ai is some sort of scanner. maybe something like a sensor but its detecting voxel or blocks and its able to see the hole and fly through. as for now it seems like its just bouncing around.

[@Marxon1134]

Okay that homeworld deserts of kharak cruiser you got was beautiful.

[@B0ldtaar]

About weapons getting removed when changing attack mode. I like to have two difrent lists but both being saved even if not active. Then I can have rocket lanser saved for my inistal runns and have a even controler switch to stat att a distans and use galingguns when rocket run out

[@kurokaze511]

Just the ability to make seeking cruise missiles without scripts is pretty awesome. I feel like they can't make the pathfinding too much better though or else it'll make base invasions impossible since you can just set a fleet of drones to patrol your hallways and nobody'd be able to escape from them.

[@Veggum]

Yeah I'm scared for multiplayer.. It's already super laggy and has rubberbanding with just basic stuff going on let alone everyone having AI on top of that... They really need to redo the netcode to stop using the server side roll back system.

[@-_Dawg_-]

One thing I was confused about. Was why only one speed limit on one ai block? I understand that the move block is required for all drones, but I feel like it would be better if each different ai block could have different speeds depending on what block is on. That way, I can use the task ai at a slower speed, or have different combat offensive ai blocks work at different speeds too. Like stay in range doesn't need to be as fast as intercept. Which will really create that complex behavior keen is looking for.

[@secretmink8389]

You can always have multiple flight controller blocks, each with their own speed limits that get enabled/disabled with the state change

[@-_Dawg_-]

@@secretmink8389 i know, and that's what i did. But i don't want to add more blocks than i have to you know?

[@joshuarosenberg4062]

Maybe cameras and/or sensors could be used for the ai to work with?

[@starshiptrooper5014]

ive tried most of the AI blocks and i cant get them to work at all the AI picks a random side of the ship to fly at the enemy so it could be flying left, right, or upside down at the enemy even with the only weapons facing forward with the AI blocks forward. and i hope more features gets added to the event controller such as weather type speed % AI block enemy detected and maybe a button in each UI of activatable things to turn on and off dampeners for example event-altitude lower than 10000m-turn dampeners on and i hope the event controller can soon detected more than 1 at a time for example when h2o2 gens are empty AND tanks are empty only then turn off hydro engines or when altitude lower than 500m AND speed is above 90ms deploy parachutes

[@Robert_801]

I think the auto pathing needs a user defined hitbox, because it seems like the ai doesn't know how big it is, or it does but it doesn't keep enough distance.

[@cron1807]

Can't you edit collision distance?

[@shadowgamer5scorpio815]

The event block is going to be fun to mess with.

[@thexboxpc]

can we have the drone that was used in the maze and the other similar ones put onto the workshop with a link to download them

[@mattstorm360]

It is a beta. It dose show things are working, some things aren't working, and quite a bit of work still needs to be done. But nearly there.

[@antwarior]

it is great, no crashes no issues and I am able to automate everything just using pistons and event controllers, have excelled at creating great stylish and functional drones now with way better efficiency

[@Nurhaal]

Yea there was definatley a crash on the CTC if you set it to follow sun on cockpit terminal but it didn't have a camera on the custom turret the CTC controlled lol There's DEFINATELY crashes. Lol It's just that they're easy to fix ones. Keen will fix them pretty quickly. That's the purpose of Beta.

[@beaconofwierd1883]

Even in open spaces, the I can’t get the AI to fly level on planets, it always tilts to the sides, making mining drones almost impossible to build :(

[@lancearmada]

Im pretty sure in some ai systems they place waypoints on the map to help the AI pathfind around areas, so that doesn’t seem too unrealistic.

[@jerryplayz101]

It seems that Keen calls pathfinding algorithms "AI" - which is a misconception of the field. Pathfinding algorithms are involved in some AI, but AI refers to intelligently pathfinding - not just following the algorithm. This includes logical reasoning and entailment from a knowledge base. This 'AI' for pathfinding seems very light and dumb in comparison to what it should be.

[@jerryplayz101]

For clarity, the pathfinding is used at a lower level to navigate in the world while the 'AI' part is determining where to go, and if needed, what avoidance maneuvers to take to ensure it gets there. (For example, the pathfinding should be able to handle finding a valid path from source to destination, while the AI goes: 'hangon; there is an asteroid wall here, I should expect that it is solid and that I can't move through it, thus I should pathfind around it as an obstacle.' That is a simple example for what AI does. Another example would be ' Hey, my camera sees a ship infront of me, moving at X m/s, I expect it to be at position A in Y seconds. I will also be at A in Y seconds -> collision possible : avoid early.' That's more complex, but definitely doable.

[@SSS333-AAA]

does anyone else notice the fact that he just sat there for like 5 seconds breathing into the mic at 5:36

[@AlienAnthony]

Looks like you forgot to snip out the beginning during the intro to the blocks.

[@matthewmotor18]

I just had the perfect idea, use the event controller to turn the antenna off if an enemy is detected, that’d be crazy

[@matthewmotor18]

Imagine the fear induced when you see multiple drones of your HUD and then they start coming towards you and your visual (the antenna signal) just disappears, when you know they’re all approaching you

[@matthewmotor18]

Oh shoot, missile drones using the ai offensive intercept with collision avoidance off, it uses the event controller to release the drones from a connector when an enemy signal is detected

[@congareel]

Event controller isn't ready. We need an 'On Key press from cockpit' function, we need to be able to use it as a controller! its just an event handler right now as you said in the video!

[@bullslayergames]

hurray he did the vid, sadly its pretty much what i suspected arron to say, the ai blocks them selves are problematic at best right now so keen needs to work on them, the event controller is solid and could be a consolidation prize if keen wants to release something sooner rather than later giving the community something to be happy about while they take extra time flushing out the ai blocks, mostly the path recording and ai movement, the target block shouldnt use the shoot OnOff which it does instead use shoot once while aiming at the target, i had issues with them not turning guns off and stray fire causing collateral damage.

[@LastStandGamers]

Didn't want want to rush this one as I feel like a lot of the community are super hyped but are unaware how much the AI struggles to pathfind. Thankyou for the comment and I agree with the weapon ON/OFF needing to be changed as it got stuck on in my testing too.

[@bullslayergames]

@@LastStandGamers actually arron theres been a development, on a discussion post i made the other day someone replied to me this morning claiming they had been in contact with some of the devs... i presume keens discord, and apperently what was pushed to us in the beta is actually not the current version they have. some of the devs have been confused by this but you've been playing SE longer than most of us so it probably isnt a shocker to hear that. Just thought you should know.

[@psychodoctor5370]

@@bullslayergames This is common, while the beta right now is unstable I'm sure that the more up to date versions of the Update are undoubtedly worse, you have to remember that a lot of optimization when it comes to both releases, and updates are often done in the last month before release. they probably had a team working on this beta for a while to get optimized enough to be a beta they can release to the public, hence why it's out of date.

[@Paweu94]

I gotta admit that they gave us pretty nice opportunity to test beta and report problems before we summon clang to avenge our destroyed precious after another update dissappointment 🤔🤓

[@alexandersergal]

it might end up being that the AI needs a sensor to tell it how close it is to a voxel, who knows though

[@shadow2273]

My ability to blueprint my drowns has been disconnected and all of my ships and can paste my blueprints but not get any new blueprints

[@Red_the_pirate]

Something i tried to do was try to get a large corvette to follow my carrier in some kind of formation. Long story short, I couldn't even get it to follow me at all, let alone in a formation. At first, i tried the recorder. I was told if you set up a beacon on another ship and record a path relative to it, the ai would follow that path around that beacon, no matter where it moved. So i figured "if i record the ship in just the one spot and set it to repeat, it should try to maintain that same position relative to the carrier right?". Nope. Whenever i moved the carrier, it stayed in the same spot, as in it didn't even attempt to move, at all. I tried the other task block and tried to get it to simply follow the carrier, but that didn't even work half the time either. At one point it did move towards the carrier, but when the carrier moved away, it froze up and refused to do anything else.

[@LastStandGamers]

The bit I am confused about his how did they make that mining bot return to the rover to collect more ore. The rover would be moving about so the flight recorder could't be used. If someone could explain.

[@wailfulcrab]

Try setting the waypoints for the Recorder manually, just 2 waypoints, first slightly behind and second on the place where it should be in formation. Make sure each of them have the carrier ship beacon selected as reference. On reaching Waypoint 2, setup action refering to the same Recorder block to Replay. Apart of Recorder, you need also AI Flight for it to work and both blocks have to have "AI behaviour" ticked on. Same way you set up a Remote Control autopilot routes, but without using GPS.

[@Red_the_pirate]

@@wailfulcrab Even if that works, wouldn't that create an oscillating behavior, using up a lot more fuel/power?

[@wailfulcrab]

@@Red_the_pirate Alright, played around it a bit. If the waypoint 1 and 2 are in the same position, setting Recorder to repeat, there is no oscillation or wasting energy, though I'm concerned about game performance if there is constant command to go between waypoint 1 and 2 every game frame. So probably you would want to set up a timer for like 1 second that will trigger the Recorder's Replay upon reaching one of the waypoints. Unfortunately, the ships do not follow the orientation of the waypoint was set up so upon the reaching it they just stop. It will look ugly for a formation but it will work.

[@AndrewTFenn]

@@LastStandGamers because they tricked you. If you look in the video you see the "mining bot" never moves position.

[@kulgydudemanyo]

Ok I want to build a drone that doesn't run away after it takes a certain amount of damage. I want it to charge into the enemy at full speed if its weapons have become too damaged to continue working.

[@GhostOfSnuffles]

I just want a full sized air vent block with conveyor ports on the back and sides.

[@trolly4233]

There needs to be mining functionality. That’s all I really hope for with this update. Mining in this game is a soul-draining drag.

[@ShaddyWoohooMan]

I just wanted to be able to have fighters dock and undock on command by a press of a button. cant do it

[@shawlock]

I would be very much happy with the event controller alone. The rest of the AI blocks are a plus and can come on a later date, when they're ready. Thanks for the review. You have some pretty cool guides/explanations in your channel.

[@LookOutForNumberOne]

It is funny that you have to test the guidance system to see which one would work best, sounds like Keen just makes Zhit and leaves the community to figure it out.

[@baconblitz772]

the video at the 5:34 mark has an editing issue it would seem, really threw me for a loop lmao

[@Chronostra]

So now I can launch sticky beacon missiles without controlling it manually to track my target when it jumps. Neat. Also, I bet there will be RTS style space engineers server.

[@ukaszlinka4662]

when i saw "connctor connected" option my first reaction was "automatic repair system for ships XD the momment u connect ai with welders triggers :P

[@party4lifedude]

I'm excited to see what people do with this. I still don't even really know how to use timer blocks or sorters so it will definitely be a while before I'm ready to mess with these lol

[@kitsueb]

Orby 2.0 when? You mentioned it briefly, but switching between multiple ai blocks with an event controller has a lot of potential.

[@thetwistedgamer370]

Did you turn on collision avoidance for the first tests?

[@dmanweiss5986]

You shou try and make a fighter fleet where half of the fighters are in combat and the other half is on standby and if a fighter takes x amount pf damage it flys back to its respective bay and a new standby fighter takes its place while the damaged fighter repairs I think you can make a mother ship that will be a carrier for fighters and has a cargo ship that replenishes any resources that may be needed for fighter repairs

[@CrystallineFoxCF]

This probably won’t happen, but a few new sounds for the sound block would be nice, like if you get below a certain altitude the event controller could activate and turn on a voice that just says altitude over and over like what irl fighter jets have, stuff like that

[@tackytrooper]

I'd love sounds for Bingo Fuel, Weapons Damaged, Low Fuel, Low Ammo, etc.

[@jorockgalvan]

0:55 hence the beta lol