Avoid Chatter on Your Mill - Haas Automation Tip of the Day

[@AZISMYKINGDOM]

This is V sauce of the cnc world

[@Ztingjammer]

Yes! 😁

[@capivaraofwar]

HEY H SAUCE! MARK HERE...

[@hemnathl]

Glad to see machinists watch vsauce videos, Any ways your true both are smart, specs wearing and bald with a beard.

[@oldy_butt_goldy]

Derek Maller of CNC

[@dillongreen7001]

I love your vids haas. You literally put money in my pocket by making me a better machinist with your tips

[@Obsurdious]

You know the product is excellent by comparison, when a presentation is this clear and extremely informative

[@MakeItWithCalvin]

I can speak to how well constant engagement tool paths work on my CRAZY janky benchtop CNC machine that weighs no more than 150 lbs tops. Yes it still is a flimsy machine but constant engagement tool paths really do make a difference! That said also figuring out each machines "sweet spot" with RPM & feed helps a lot with eliminating or reducing chatter. Just because your calculations say 5,000 RPM at 20 IPM does not mean that 4,500 RPM and 22 IPM does not work best!

[@jesusmarywillsaveyou]

ive never been so positively surprised at something so previously unappealing, yet ironically so relevant to my everyday life because these processes are used for virtually everything, in all walks of modern day civilisation. Great tutorials guys! not that I need them but impressive stuff. Bravo.

[@buckstarchaser2376]

It seems like a natural progression of the technology would be to place a simple acoustic pickup, and use it to auto-tune the settings. This could prevent chatter that is below human detection threshold, and respond faster than a human can. It would also require less hand-holding so the operator could do more productive tasks, such as napping, eating, or slacking in general.

[@jimburnsjr.]

You don't need a gov grant...giter done

[@RobMitshi]

this exists already

[@RobMitshi]

there are companies who use microphones to early detect vibrations and microcracks etc in machines

[@RobMitshi]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5nTqq2VlKh_bsU

[@harrelsontrumpets]

this is common practice in many shops

[@MaxMakerChannel]

I like these videos. Well done. Good for you to make these videos. Other companies should do the same. A video on feeds and speeds would be nice.

[@akaMyThought]

Max Maker very true

[@CNCPRINTBLOGSPOT]

Du bist aber auch echt überall vertreten ^^ Max Maker

[@sphericalsphere]

I'm an actual mechanical engineer and I still watch these videos to learn about the machining world. Great job!

[@MorganOliff]

"Get yourself a modern CAM system" -Haas Quote of the day. :)

[@DCT_Aaron_Engineering]

Yes, like Fusion 360 :-)

[@JaakkoF]

Or the best, SolidCAM

[@rmkscrambler]

Surfcam had this years ago. Guess it's finally making it to low end cam.

[@iPACKgoldDOTS]

We use solid works / cam works. Love it!

[@kzinty]

The best actually Powermill from Autodesk. But it has a price tag to go with it

[@PatrickFarrell_KJV]

These videos are some of the best I’ve seen. Good work, Haas!

[@mrsnrub3712]

It is indeed a 10,000ft view and it was nice to hear that mentioned. Understanding the fundamental reasons and methods and then being able to apply them is such a valuable skill in manufacturing. I think these videos showcase the fundamentals quite well. Also, Mark your personality is very inviting and you bring a sense of practically to these otherwise theoretical ideas. And, that tuning fork was an awesome demonstration! I have watched quite a few of these videos, and I hope to watch quite a few more.

[@peterzwart2830]

Not only the CNC world benefits from this. I am a hobbyist with a regular milling machine, and I like to look at it and get out what is important to me. So I like to watch and subscribe, nice that there is so much sharing on youtube.

[@norton750cc]

Same thing on the lathe, sometimes it is better to increase the pass depth to avoid tool bounce resonance, especially on hollow parts. Nothing worse than resonance in the finish cut.

[@bbarker5766]

Excellent video! I tried to tell the bonehead supervisors at work about speeding up and slowing down the rpm but all they know and tell people to do is slow down the FR. I proved them wrong many times when they asked about how I reduced the chatter but they just looked at me with that blank stare so I just walked away laughing and shaking my head. Lol

[@TB-sw1tf]

Well you showed them didn't you

[@oriansbelt7852]

Where do you work? Round here most of them don't like you editing programs however if you prove them wrong the usually don't know that you've changed the programs, but I'm also 15 yrs in aircraft machining

[@bbarker5766]

Trenton Buss their programs were wasting to much time and not getting good parts. Before I made the changes they would make double the parts to only get half or less than half good one's out of what they cut (I worked with glass). When I changed it they cut 700 parts for a 325 piece order and I turned out 689 good parts that everyone there said looked better than anything they ran before even all of the QA people. So yeah I guess I did show them. I did the job they hired me for. 😉

[@bbarker5766]

John McCall I worked at a place that made anything from cell phone screen protectors to glass for automotive industry, to screens for t.v., tablets, atm's, to card readers and more. They laid off last fall so I started doing my own thing making products that I have made for years on a part time basis and I'm in the process of making it into a full time business.

[@stevendzupin2592]

Blessed are the wheels for they go round in circles 🙃

[@rocketscience777999]

Great Video. For similar reasons, turbine blades on gas turbine engines have their natural frequencies tuned so that they are at least 20% above or below the rotational speed of the rotor.

[@jaysilverheals4445]

You guys deserve a damn pulitzer prize. The videos are expertly done with astonishing graphics how did you show the cutter path with the item sitting on the table? amazing Im impressed and I am 66. On the longer jaws about 1/4 in by the way if someone happens upon this You can also put clamps across the 2 ends of the jaws to hold them together better for more dampening.. The videos are so good and it also gets people more friendly to haas and view them as "good support after the purchase and real humans you can talk to"--alot of the other cnc that is totally missing.

[@michaelparham3543]

You have the best machinist videos on the internet. Thank you kindly for publishing this material.

[@ozyrob1]

I'm not a machinist but I love these vids.

[@kotsios1234567]

THANK you the information given in this video helped me figure out issues on my non HAAS cnc machine. Free education...

[@maloyaircraft1174]

This is an excellent explanation of resonance frequencies. Following the tooling manufactures recommended feeds and speeds help avoid this as well.

[@mmpiforall5913]

I've run into chatter before and solved it, but I still learned something new today!

[@geoffcunningham6823]

I've just watched three of these videos and I'm loving it. So much knowledge and know-how. Thanks Haas!

[@juusojuuso9214]

I'm set on becoming a machinist and these videos are giving me such a headstart on my class 🎶

[@KeatonsCarlott]

Prepping for your machine, in webster tx, to arrive!!! Ive been in the automotive industry for 25+ yrs Using lathes, And hand making parts. I do not want to waste time or materials. Let alone the equipment. Hope everyone's staying covid safe!

[@dianelarocque4668]

Again It would be super helpful if you had a printable copy of each tip of the day. There is so much good information, it would be great to use this to help train the operators.

[@davidaitken4157]

ALL VERY NICE BUT, in many worskhop's over my lifetime , the FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT issue relating to chatter has been the instalation leveling and securing down of the machine , perhaps you could make this the absolute 1st point upfront ....... many have wasted a lot time trying to correct problems without reverting to the main cause

[@JaakkoF]

Except it has nothing to do when your part is not secured properly, like the first example in this video.

[@Zkkr429]

Don't really no what type of workshops you've been working in?

[@ericvonverde8755]

One of the most informative 10 minutes of my life!!

[@ozwhistles]

Thanks for the tip! Excellent real physics at work! What I do to stop resonating chatter with old-school lathe turning is to rub the rotating job with a notched piece of wood. This is done at 120 degrees of the tool and against the moving resonant peak where the job wants to flex. I have learned different speeds to do this so that it is just out of tune with the job as it changes over the cut. What it does is cause phase cancellation in the resonance which is trying to set-up. It takes a bit of experience to zone-in on the rub-rate of the notched stick, but when you know why you are doing it, it doesn't take all that long. Of course, applying any kind of force to the job will alter the tolerance of the result - but my experience is that the deviation is less than what is caused by the chatter. In an expensive "new-school" environment, I could see a cheap alternative being to mount an acoustic transducer in the job-holding structure to detect and cancel chatter in real time. It would seem far cheaper and quicker to have that, instead of spending time on toolpaths, de-tuned cutting tools and brute-force cutting speed adjustments .. also doing the constant cut toolpaths lengthens production-rate. Has anyone done such a dynamic de-resonator? If not .. maybe you should? There might be a few bucks in that .. I'm happy with my notched-stick.

[@3DLasers]

Adjustable Tuning Forks ? I wish I had known this 40 some odd year's ago... To Super Tune my guitar... 🎼🎶🎵🎶🎸

[@damionparson247]

This video was very helpful. I had to expand the length on my workholding on a job just last week.

[@thesuperjed1]

Great explanation of chatter Mark! I must say, you have a very clear teaching style that compels me to watch every video that you present so I can absorb the knowledge you share. I knew about adaptive clearing/constant engagement strategies but didn’t realise chatter could be reduced by using them. Great tip, thank you HAAS. One day when I finally get a proper production style VMC such as a HAAS, this knowledge will be invaluable

[@haasautomation]

Jed - Thanks for the comment. Haas has Applications Engineers (like me, but with more day-to-day experience!!) at each of their Haas Factory Outlets, so we’ve got you covered when the day comes. Thanks again. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@andrew_the_machinist]

Had this problem today when I had to use a couple of sub par end mills till my gorilla mills get back in. Overrides all afternoon till I found my spot again. Great video as usual!

[@FredFlintstone21]

Mark thanks for taking the time to make this video. We have a 2018 haas vf5- 50 xt mill, everything is going great on that front. Now we are replacing a 1997 kuraki horizontal mill with a new giddings & lewis horizontal mill. All the production parts from the kuraki are being moved to the G&L. I can take the same tool from the kuraki, that had no chatter issues, and on the G&L with the same tool path, it chatters. And the spindle is 155 mm dia on the G&L, vs 150 mm on the kuraki. Even our 669.95 mm boring bar will chatter on the 8.5 mm chamfer it cuts. Alot of times all I can do is greatly reduce rpm and feed. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the machine. Maybe pull stud draw slower on the G&L? Would be worth having maintenance test this between the two machines. The other thing is, since the G&L is a new machine, everything is tight, maybe that is playing into the chatter. Going from our 2003 vf5 that we traded in, we had zero issues with milling or anything else converting the programs over.

[@JeanGreyling]

Those 3 are the most obvious but not limited too, ball screw tension, wear on slides, cutting forward(y-) on the spindle pushes down on the vertical slides and cutting back(y+) picks up on the vertical slides, and then the other obvious one conventional vs climb milling plays a really big role

[@zombieresponder]

That is far from the most annoying sound in the world. I used to spend 12 hours a day running a Makino Mag 1, sometimes almost 80 hours a week. On roughing large workpieces, we ran a 1" two flute at 3/8" axial DOC, a full 1" radial WOC, approximately 28k rpm, and between 700 and 800 IPM. I do not miss listening to it scream. The tool changer on that machine was slower than a 30+ year old Matsura that my current employer had until recently. I never timed it, but it was probably 45 seconds minimum to change a tool. Next to quitting time, those brief periods of near silence were the best part of the day.

[@nbowling10trio]

Sometimes something in the machine is worn to a point where the ridgidity of the machine is causing the chatter on heavier cuts. Some of our machines are getting maybe six years old and only chatter in X direction cuts. One machine chatters every direction in heavier cuts. We moved same tooling, same set up, same programs over four machines until one ran the job without chatter. The original machine was chatter free until it broke gearbox. Using Z carbs in 303ss

[@ronvonbargen8411]

I remember years ago (we didn't have cam software. On one particular part on the lathe going into a large radius no matter what I did I couldn't get rid of chatter. Unless I stood there changing the spindle speed constantly from 80%to 110%... small batch runs 12pcs at a time made doing it that way tolerable... Other times back in the day when we used to have Manuel cincinatti horizontal mills. We would hang/slide a weight over end of arbor. To reduce harmonics

[@TOM-ph7xy]

i agree. you are alwalys making great videos. the explanation is really great and is helping during the daily work. "don't waste cycle time ; peck drilling essentials" saved a lot of time. a lot of parts were finished sooner as planned and made our customers happy. thanks haas automation, inc. i will keep that in mind and already focusing on your micro machine program to build up a home shop for the future.

[@haasautomation]

Thanks Tom! That’s what we want to hear. If you have any suggestions for us, send them through to [e-mail]. Thanks again. - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@moocowgobark22]

Another tip you can try in increasing the feed rate. by taking a bigger chip, you force the tool to be "stuck" between the chip while its cutting and the material that isnt cut thus eliminated that vibration. You can also switch from climb cutting to conventional. that will keep the work piece pushed away from the tool instead of climb cutting which will 'grab' the work piece

[@blakelibby2140]

I absolutely love these videos! I always click them over everything else! Mark you do an awesome job!!!

[@lstevens1512]

Tuning forks make a very good illustration. Cleaning chatter can be difficult as well when you're close to tolerance. Using very fine cuts is like polishing them out. It's hard to add to this video because you are absolutely right. On a lathe, you can put a magnet on the tool to help prevent chatter.Maybe hard to believe, but it works. I put a screw-jack under the part and it usually helps as well. Like you stated.... stronger support.

[@haasautomation]

L Stevens - Thanks for the comment. We’ll have to try it! - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day

[@FredFlintstone21]

We use jack screws daily. The key is to not over tighten

[@stefanov92]

never used or seen cnc machine real life but i love your videos thy calm me down

[@mattinkel7342]

Great explanation of adaptive tool paths... heard a lot of people mention them in fusion 360 video but never lay out why they are better

[@dondroc1]

All these tips are great...however. There are cases where none of these may eliminate the problem. There is another tip I can share. Back when I was young often times you could hear tires on cars and trucks making a loud whining noise while rolling. Trucks were the worst. It was caused by the tread having the same pitch all the way around the tire. This caused harmonic vibration and the whine. It was found that by changing the tread pitch around the tire in segments that it eliminated the harmonics. Modern tires most likely have from 6 to 8 different tread pitches. The same thing occurs with end mills because the edges have the same radial pitch. One time I was having the chatter problem with long EM on CNC and when setting a new tool into the machine I accidentally chipped the corner off of one edge. I decided to use it anyway. It cut smooth! I discussed my find with a friend of mine that was vice pres. of a major carbide cutting tool company. So we did testing in my shop. He was able to produce an endmill with variable pitch. On a four flute EM it is not 90 deg. to each edge. 89 /91/90/90. His company began producing these EM's for the market. After more experimenting they found that they can alter the helix also from one edge to the next. I think today there are many manufactures of these types of EM's.

[@amirfarbodsamadi2473]

You guys are doing a marvelous job. Thank you ever so much, I've grasped every skill I needed to run a CNC machine thanks to your Tips and Advises. I program with Mastercam and the toolpath programming you mentioned in the Mastercam is called Dynamic Mill.

[@13cro13]

Hey... Mark ... Thanks for training me.... Ur making me a better machinest.... Thanks allot Haas team.

[@BlithelyNarcissistic]

So well done! From the examples, explanations to the solutions...I was able to follow and understand. Great job!

[@asdgaseve]

At 8:28 there is something that iMachining covers by calculating and change rotation to solve that problem...

[@cian-lukechristoff7771]

Great lesson. Simple but so valuable.

[@Thepriest39]

Another great video! Thanks Mark.

[@victorhernandez790]

Wow awesome way of explaining everything I will definitely show this to all the guys at work especially to those who don't believe in high speed adaptive tool paths but still want to use traditional tool paths

[@greensheen8759]

Awesome! I'm gonna give this a try to tame the chatter monster that is the robot arm CNC I'm building at my university.

[@billherreid9661]

I love these hands on intuition videos! It would be awesome to see a demonstration using a chladne plate to show how intermittent chatter lines up with peaks and troughs in the harmonic resonance of the part.

[@ryanleslie7425]

Excellent video series! You have a knack for making great analogies

[@rexmyers991]

Excellent overview - very concise

[@Emanemoston]

Thanks for the video.

[@dvanton]

Excellent video! Thanks, Mark.

[@raymondvanroest3904]

can you develop an oscillating spindle speed function for example lower spindle rpm 1500 rpm and upper spindle rpm 1600 and add to this a duration between the 2 rpm for the spindle to speed up and slow down over a given time say around 2 seconds this will also help reduce chatter I have done this manually by adjusting the spindle override in just such a fashion and it works just fine. call it a G95.2 or G96.2

[@TommiHonkonen]

Thats mark changing the jaws in reel time, not speed up.

[@robbiejames1540]

I saw this just as he started changing them 😂

[@connorwatson5724]

How have i never thought of simply making longer vice jaws? I usually just use two vices clocked in parallel with each other, or screw a jack under the most prominent end of the job.

[@silvertourist]

Thanks Mark another fantastic informative video

[@changhoyang9815]

Appreciate your presentation. Will spread your idea to my friends in Korea.

[@barryhenshaw9321]

You're the best Mark

[@Ricardo-uw3ov]

Very intresting tips. I will never use it, but stil very intresting to me. Thanks!

[@samirabaza]

well, I have a CAMWorks volumill that works every day except with long endmills 12mm with 5% side depth of cut and 60mm d.o.p. I will enforce work holding and change speed... I hope it works

[@lineage13]

Overhang milling is great if you get your rpms to proper hsm sfms. Just look up some basic carbide manufacturer recommended sfms your running your endmills rpm way too slow..

[@davidendres7808]

Hey bloke I have learned so much in such a short time thanks and keep the videos coming

[@HaloGamer401]

Where can I snag one of those beautiful Lista boxes??? I want that model he uses for a workstation! Beautiful!

[@1320pass]

Great presentation with great info. Thanks Mark!

[@chriscoppersmith7762]

Thank you. Superb video and animations. Makes difficult concepts easy to comprehend.

[@diditwork370]

Hey can you run the adaptive program on the overhanging part just to show the difference? Also could you post the time differences between the two techniques?

[@daniellachance4134]

Well done, very professional and informative.

[@charlieromeo7663]

Thanks Mark. I enjoy these videos.

[@nakul921]

Ur a cnc guru , liked it so much sir

[@slimetime2227]

Amazing tips. I love these videos! Please keep them coming.

[@JohnsonKnives]

Awesome video. I don't own a CNC machine, much less a large Haas, but this was interesting throughout.

[@dustinfisher5463]

Nice demo of resonance

[@janes-e378]

CHEERS AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS OUR SAVIOUR 👂👂

[@Sketch1994]

That was an awesome demonstration. Kudos!

[@manuelfernandezlosa1916]

Very nice tip!

[@vickysingh-lp5gx]

You are the best. I watch all video what you upload. They are so informative really. Keep it up👌👍

[@hakont.4960]

These tips will come in real handy for when I never get a CNC machine. :D It's still interesting to watch.

[@Yamaprilia]

Hi. Can you please explain to me how it is possible to use a long fluted 3 flute alloy cutter? Ive come to the conclusion recently that long fluted 3 flute alloy cutters are practically useless. I always get chatter no mater what I adjust. Big cuts and small cuts always chatter. But ive descovered if i run a long 4 flute steel cutter that I can machine aluminuim so much better with much reduced chatter

[@rowycoracing]

Thanks for doing these videos!

[@peteabc1]

I love that chatter sound. That's the true sound of heavy metal (but would probably hate it after a while). But is it possible to detect those resonancies with microphone (do FFT then), and dynamically adapt RPM? I'm no machinist, that's just an idea I immediately had.

[@zebraallday8332]

When you said you love the sound of chatter we all knew you weren't a machinist lol

[@johnjacobjinglehimerschmid3555]

I wish I worked at a place that had mills. But was only open say 9 to 5 But allowed employees to use tools during off hours ( bring your own bits of course )

[@chuckthebull]

I think the cleaner your shop the less chatter. lol. no wonder I fight this issue..

[@சபரிபிரபாகர்தமிழ்3535]

U r genious...please upload more videos...v r expecting lot from u...

[@mickeymouse-lu2yk]

excellent video as always!!!

[@avr4080]

I LOVE these videos!

[@dannypark8979]

loved the demo

[@aan5393]

This is fundamental for all mills and brand

[@TallmanMike]

The production values on this are sky high! Makes me want to get into CNC - any tips?

[@jimburnsjr.]

I personally prefere the mori seiki control....use sandvik and kennametal tooling...if possible...do not cut yourself short or dumb down the next gen in the name of the bottom line. Drop the rent rates instead of raising wages....learn how to machine titanium and inconel....stay away from debt dependant circumstances...the deal could fall through every second of every day.

[@michaelschalk4718]

Just wanted to say these videos are why I am buying a VF1.

[@haasautomation]

Michael - Thanks for the appreciation. We’re doing whatever we can to make Haas users successful. If you get a machine, and run into things that needed a video, send us some suggestions at [e-mail] . - Mark, Haas Tip-of-the-day.

[@hemnathl]

Never thought resonance would be a factor here thanks for the tip, great idea tho.

[@jantrzeci700]

Hi, can you add Polish subtitles to this and your movies? You have interesting movies and I wanted to understand them well.

[@kknives_switzerland]

I learned something. Thank you!

[@phuchnd]

Great videos. Thanks.

[@mxcollin95]

Great video! All good useable info. 👍

[@carlitoway9120]

I was talking about tuning forks and getting rid of shatter years before anyone new what they was about