Avoid this MISTAKE in Luminar NEO! Correct Editing Order!

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Want to take your photo editing to the next level? I've created a comprehensive training course to take you zero to hero, from the fundamentals all the way to advanced level editing in 18 hours of organized training plus raw files to practice on. You can check it out here ➡ bit.ly/NeoMastery 😃

[@zardosspinosa6944]

Yea, I guess it makes sense, as the tools are presented in that order and that would be my normal of mode of progress, but nice to know that it is a thing

[@AnthonyTurnham]

I think one of the great things about Neo from a creative point of view is that we can apply tools in any order and also re-apply effects too. It's really liberating but without understanding how it impacts the photo as the edit progresses some people may end up with sub-optimal results..

[@ninjatogo]

Every time they send out those questionnaires about what features I would like to see in future updates, I ask for edit reordering. It's extremely frustrating that such a basic feature isn't here yet

[@AnthonyTurnham]

I recently met with Luminar's chief tech who explained why it's not as simple as you might think... I may cover it in a video

[@ninjatogo]

@@AnthonyTurnham If you can, I'd like to see a video on that, please

[@CrowkeeperStudios]

​@@AnthonyTurnham It is as simple as @ninjatogo thinks, because it was in the original iteration of Luminar 2018, as well as luminar 3, if I am remembering correctly. You could reorder at any time, much faster than how slow Neo is. There's really no excuse on their behalf.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

I don't think it's an issue of simplicity. Certainly not from an implementation point of view. The issue is that the tools affect everything that sits above, so if you've got say a 15 tool stack that's creating your edit and you pull the top tool down to 5th in the stack, for example, the user has to wait for 10 tools above to be recalculated. Skylum feel the gains from adding this feature are out-weighed by the user potentially waiting for their processor to create the updated look. And after giving it a lot of thought I agree.

[@CrowkeeperStudios]

@@AnthonyTurnham ah yes, and reverting the file to original and the reloading all those 15 edits in the order you really want it is so much faster than the recalculation time of simply reordering them, just like you could in the original version of luminar. It just doesn't make sense and it's lazy not to offer this piss easy function.

[@yinodiaz4290]

Please please please, more videos of Luminar Neo layers and how to work with it !

[@yeungeric6347]

Good observation. Hope Luminar will eventually allow adjusting/moving the sequence of the tools as an option for users

[@MrFastforwardcoach]

What an eye-opener!! Great video Anthony. After watching this, I went back and redid a couple of edits based on your suggestion. In one case, the difference as was really marginal, but in the other example, the difference was alarming. Keep 'em coming - well done.

[@richardbirger2245]

THANKS (a big thanks) for this and all your other videos ... having the "Whys" along with the "Hows" is well done and appreciated

[@AnthonyTurnham]

My pleasure! Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I too love to understand the why's behind things.

[@fallingrockmoto-cp5xh]

Liked, subscribed and commented. This is the first really good Luminar Neo content I’ve come across on KZbin, and - as someone who bought it but has really struggled to transfer their existing LR skills to it - this channel is encouraging me to try again and do it properly.

[@drwride]

Had this exact question while editing today. Perfect timing for me. Thanks.

[@shelmana]

Hi again Anthony, I first joined Luminar back in the Luminar 4 days as I was very new to photography and didn't understand layers in Photoshop. I now can use layers but still wonder when to use the and when not to. Could you do a tutorial on this outlining the pros and cons of layers, the traps not to fall into, and when it is best to use layers and when not to. I still wonder if I should do some of my edits on layers or not. Thx, I always enjoy your videos. Robyn

[@AnthonyTurnham]

It's more simple than you'd think. If you're wondering if you should use a layer then it's likely the answer is no. Unless you have a specific reason such as compositing or a layer with a blend mode, avoid layers and use tools with masks on the base layer only. Hope that helps

[@alangauld6079]

Nice demo. I too was surprised how well Neo held up with the "wrong" order tools.

[@Thetyrerepairer]

Thanks for these tips

[@peterhewitson71]

Hi Anthony as I have just purchased Luminar ( 2 days ago ) this was really helpful to learn in the early stages , have subed and looking forward to watching many more of your videos . Thanks Pete Western Australia

[@ingoeggers8356]

Hey Anthony, excellent tutorial, great advice. I'm just a hobby-photographer, but I'm surprised how your tips have enabled me to rescue some pics that were actually quite meh. Your videos are great, thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Great to hear!

[@ca_os4331]

Hi Anthony, stumbled across your channel a couple of weeks ago and I am enjoying your videos immensely! They also pushed me to finally decide and get myself Luminar Neo, so thank you for the nudge! Keep the good stuff coming!

[@MartynWrigg]

Thanks for that Anthony. I have long advocated a set order of processing, but have never done the trials which you have shown us. It's quite incredible (terrifying) what a difference it can make. I shall place even more emphasis on the order of play when teaching my students.

[@fenraven]

I never thought much about the order of applying the edits, but it totally makes sense. Thanks for doing the hard work for us! I've copied your list into a picture I'll put on my desktop for reference. Hopefully this helps me avoid doing things that denigrate my photos. :)

[@Big.E]

As a snapper on a tight budget Neo, has been a breath of fresh air 👍 thanks for the much needed help 👍

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Great to hear! 😁

[@MrDivingduck]

Thanks - addresses a question I've had for a long time.

[@igorhlavaty2060]

What a great recommendation. I was not aware of this. Thank you Anthony.

[@edwinmart1]

Thank you Anthony! This is very good information.

[@petr.stasiak]

Thanks for another great video and tips. I wanted to enable changing the order of editing steps after Skylum as soon as I met LuminarNeo, unfortunately without a response...

[@rather-reverend]

THANKS! Pretty much what I've kind of guessed out, but I've never taken the time to think about WHY.

[@Jim181059]

Thank you Anthony - I've been finding Luminar Neo a bit confusing lately as it's added more features but this gives me a great basis to take a breath and start afresh.

[@ChemaPhoto]

nice thanks!! I have my order to do things too really similar that I learned the hard way hahah, I will love to be able to move / resort edits too...

[@mauriciolee7349]

Wow! This is one of the MOST EFFECTIVE Luminar Neo tutorials I’ve ever watched. Thank Anthony for VIVIDLY demonstrating the DIFFERENCE between Lightroom (NON DESTRUCTIVE editing) & Luminar Neo (NON DESTRUCTIVE & DESTRUCTIVE editing). Now, I know what steps I should do first in Luminar Neo. Now I remember, in Lightroom, in the past when I made a mistake I can easily went back to the original state of the photo. In Luminar Neo, sometimes it worked sometimes it did not.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Glad it was helpful!

[@riverofgrace]

Wow! Thanks for your hard work to be able to show the differences.

[@enjoythelittlethings3359]

Excellent !! Thank you so much for this.

[@cindyblacklock9764]

This was so helpful and clearly explained. Thank you.

[@michaelprange2348]

This video is so important ! Longtime overdue! Congratulations !

[@790Piper]

Real clarity and warnings here. So many thanks for the recommendations!

[@riflegurlsmom]

SO helpful!! I love your videos, Anthony!

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Glad you like them!

[@jonnyroids1482]

Another great video again Anthony, well done. I will follow these steps and fingers crossed my photos will look great.

[@brucecampbell4485]

Anthony, thanks for this. I seem to have generally got the order correct except for one. I always added Enhance Ai last instead of first, but usually only if I felt the photo needed it. I've now printed out your suggested order and stuck it in front of my monitor.

[@ChasWG]

Great info! I think I had seen an earlier version of one of your edit videos and you had talked a bit about this and that's how I started to do all my edits. And for the most part, I am following your guidelines, except for the vignette tool placement. I'll now end with that if it needs it. But I wasn't too far off really. This sort of content is very helpful to me!

[@nsfotographi]

Wow! What an informative video! Thank you so much!

[@reneabela1744]

Thank you Anthony very informative. This is information which I was not aware of.

[@BLZBub-kl6ns]

Thank you for the helpful information. Never thought the order would make a difference. I may have to go back and change the order on some previous edits to see if it improves.

[@stephencrane3180]

Indeed, so incredibly helpful and useful for sure

[@DJewell]

Thanks very well done. I took a lot of notes and will be using you suggestions 1-7. I am trying to switch to Luminar Neo from LRC and need to learn the details of photo file management, locations, naming, organizing and such. I hope you have some along that line. I think I remember you switching from LRC to Luminar a while back and would be interested in your story about that.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Hi. Funny you mention that... my most recent video talks about whether I switched fully or not... kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXivf56lqZuHl5I

[@rockyv23]

Great stuff. Keep up the good work. I enjoy watching your videos.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Thanks, will do!

[@jaumeolle3127]

Thank you, Anthony. Always learning new things.

[@MWTH37]

Anthony Thank you for sharing great information

[@thisarfingai]

Awesome as always mate. I found a lot of this to be second nature to me - your recommended workflow was was I had been doing - with one MAJOR exception: Contrast - I have been adjusting my contrast as well as playing with highlights & shadows at the beginning of my (Post develop RAW) workflow. I look forward to implementing your recommended workflow and see if that helps. Thanks again mate.

[@srqjim6381]

Another excellent video. Thanks Anthony. I often wondered about this workflow issue.

[@whooptydj]

Thanks Anthony! It is SO helpful to see editing over the top as you did to make your point.

[@EagleEye-ug8qw]

Thank you Dear Anthony...

[@brianford3517]

Thank you very informative

[@harryconte7222]

First common-sense workflow video I've seen. One question, where would you introduce noise reduction (if required) in the process?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Thanks. Depends on the noise level TBH. Usually for most cases I'll tickle in a little of the standard noise removal in developRaw, just to knock it back enough to proceed with the edit. If it's particularly bad I won't tend to use NoiselessAI in Neo, I'll run bit.ly/TopazPhotoAI at the END of the edit. It's also great if I need to upscale my initial capture for large format printing.

[@andrewmckinney3053]

Very intuitive, Anthony ... super helpful! Many thanks!

[@marknathan7744]

Yes good tips follow the normal raw edit first always! except do not automatically click the defringe tool and chromatic aberation tool when editing these tools do not work and WARNING TO ALL NEO USERS the chromatic aberation removal tool added more aberation than was already there on my original image yes thats right added aberation not remove! My suggestion is get yourself dxo pure raw or another raw editor and use neo just for flashy stuff if thats your thing.

That’s very valuable, thank you

[@mikesphotography7185]

Thanks Anthony always great info 👍

[@MikBehindTheLens]

This is so helpful!!! Thank you so much!!!

[@joeyrobertson4926]

Thanks so much. I purchased Luminar Neo a couple of weeks ago and have been watching a lot of your videos…which are very helpful. Thanks for sharing your work flow!

[@AnthonyTurnham]

My pleasure 🙏

[@robertmeyerson1618]

Nicely explained. Thanks Tony.

[@terryosborn]

Excellent Anthony, thank you.

[@sandipbhattacharya427]

Thank you ! This was an eye opener !

[@duncanmctaggart7183]

Thank you Anthony. Made a lot of sense! I would have loved to get a copy of the 7 (or 8) steps in a list in your comments though. Great job overall.

[@phlotographer]

agree -- a .rtf file linked in the original text message of all tutorials would be easy to do and offer to viewers. Personally, I feel the a straighten and crop at the beginning of the edit is a good idea but I know that there will be debate. Also, I also love to do a quick single image HDR to just see where one can go and maybe the areas the might wish to have adjustments during the edit process. Also, does the order make a difference if editing an original .jpg rather than a RAW image? Just a few thoughts and questions.

[@nigelchase2407]

Great, very well done.

[@clemturner1113]

As always a very professional, pragmatic and helpful video. Thank you.

[@leonfisher]

👍Nicely explained.

[@shelmana]

Hi Anthony, Is it possible to get a screenshot of your last slide showing the order of steps you recommend, all on one age. Great work as usual and explained in such a clear concise manner

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Nice idea, I'll see about a pdf...

[@steverich_photography]

Awesome video, thank you

[@MrKenny115]

Very helpful, thank you

Hey Anthony! A really great video ... and I actually didn´t know that and haven´t tried it yet. Thanks for that 😉!

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Happy to help!

[@arpearce4416]

great really appreciate the advice

[@edneubaum5456]

Always wondered about this thanks for highlighting this issue.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Glad I could help. 😊

[@watsoncrawford5296]

Brilliant explanation. Really helpful. Many thanks.

[@bertcheney481]

I wrote it down and will try it out. THANKS!!!

[@jaycstocks]

Thank you!

[@avnerbenzvi8757]

Hey Anthony! It will be great to add a PDF doc. containing the correct editing order.

[@smalltalk.productions9977]

i second this recommendation which is especially needed since the correct order is not on the screen without a KZbin tag for another of your wonderful vids thus a screenshot is not doable. thumbs up.

[@Centauri27]

Great tips as usual, Anthony. I'm watching this on an 11" Chromebook screen, and a lot of the differences aren't that noticeable after the KZbin compression. One comment: I find that if I use a preset, it discards my manual edits. Sometimes I can go back into the editing stack and make changes to the base Develop RAW tool, if it was used in the preset. If not, then I guess I'm out of luck?

[@phlotographer]

as I recall, there are a few tutorials related to Luminar that suggests doing presets first as what you have found is normal for the program.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Yes, it's a bit of a shame how this works. But it's the same with most programs and how the presets work. Lightroom does have the ability to pick and choose which tools are added to the preset and which are excluded. This allows for individual edits to remain intact if you apply a preset that targets other tools. I'd love Neo to introduce this feature. For now though a workflow option is to export your "technical edits" (ie edits that aim for authenticity, good exposure, good colour balance and good dynamic range) and then have a second version where you can apply a preset to your already adjusted file. Hope that makes sense....

[@Centauri27]

@@AnthonyTurnham That's a good idea, Anthony. I've been just going into the Edit stack and trying to tweak it to my liking. The main thing I'm after is the camera profile and a few other basic Develop edits. After learning about the importance of profiles from you, that's the first thing I do in every edit!

[@largefamilyruralliving7434]

Thanks, I view this as a helpful but highlighting the flaws of this program, I don't think it should be this fussy to work with. I used to love luminar ai, upgraded to two years of neo and is so slow and if you change or add your preset at the end you lose clone and erase among other things so you have to crop and preset first, then detail edit which makes it slower than before! I'm not liking it much so far. Some of my colors in random images are weird in a set of school photos that should all be the same, so I'm having a hard time figuring out why that is, probably what you are talking about in this video.

[@utahdesertadventures4512]

Thanks for your videos, they are so helpful. I am struggling to find a way to compare two photos side by side in Luminar Neo. My Main reason is for be able to see differences say when finding a lens sweet spot. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

It's not a function to do a direct side by side unfortunately. One potential workaround would be to load one of the versions as a layer on top of the other and use the before after slider or create a hard linear mask on the layer... not ideal but may serve the purpose.

[@jeanbarclay4899]

Thank you so much

[@Speak_Out_and_Remove_All_Doubt]

Really useful and important video, thanks Anthony. I always think it's a shame that the enhanced AI doesn't use develop raw data as surely it would be more powerful if it did.

[@tinkerphil]

Brilliant! Thankyou for this... I came on here to look up this topic as I was falling foul of this very problem. It is serendipitous that you have put up this video only a few hours before I looked.. You must have heard my thoughts. :^) A quick follow-up question - if you forget something in the Develop Raw section before applying all the other tools, can you correct it by going into the the EDIT section and then using Develop Raw there? I wonder if changes there in the Edit section has a knock-on effect on the other tools. Keep up the good work!

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Yes You can go back to re edit the raw tool lower in the stack.

[@phlotographer]

@@AnthonyTurnham before using other tools however if I understand you and others correctly. Hope I am not misunderstanding the process but let me know please.

[@lloydstuartm.d.5625]

I realize there are no hard and fast rules, but do you do Enhance AI before making changes in the regular Devope module AFTER you do the Develop Raw changes? Of course, Develop Raw has to be the first adjustment you make. It seems like Enhance AI should be the #2 adjustment and then go from there. That's pretty much how I've been doing my edits. Maybe one day you could do a video on how to enhance B&W photography as I've just gotten into B&W with my IR dedicated camera. Off to Greenland next week! Thanks again Anthony for another great video.

[@wlmiller7248]

Would your recommendations be valid for a non-RAW photo?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Yes

[@masterbilllauer8531]

KOOL Pic develop in both wayd Ant!!!

[@ebouwens]

Excellent analysis. Another commenter had recommended applying supercontrast prior to Enhance AI. I guess I'll need to do my own comparison in the same methodical way that you demonstrated.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Yep, sure. I'm not saying that there is only one correct way to apply the tools I just want people to be aware there is a potential for different results depending on the order and to make informed decisions as they edit.

[@thierryhoornaert9950]

Thank you Anthony. Where would you order Layers, Sky replacement, Remove and Clone in your workflow when combining them with the other tools, esp. with Sunrays, studio light ...? I had some issues with all these yesterday.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

I'd get the cloning done early and the sky replacement too. Studio light after that if that's part of the same photo workflow. Sunrays towards the end. As for layers... it depends what you're wanting to achieve by adding the layer. But usually that would come after getting everything done in my base layer.

[@garygoldsmith2889]

Thank you for another very informative discussion. Question: Would you make the same recommendations for B/W photos?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Hi. Yes, pretty much. I usually have a quick flip to b+w early on to check the general conversion will look as I hope. Then work my way through the tools I need and then convert to black and white towards the end of the process. Why? Because the tools give cleaner results if they're working off all rgb channels not just a monochrome image.

[@kimraymond2749]

Thanks Anthony, so helpful. It reminds me how little I understand about what is actually happening when I apply edits. Just a question about hardware. My little laptop really struggles with some functions like cloning. Any advice on the minimum computer specs for smooth operation of Neo?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Hmmm... yeah they do have a minimum specs page on their website, but tbh you want to be maxing your RAM memory and getting as fast processor as you can afford. The graphics card isn't as important for 2D editing as most people think. If your budget permits running luminar and your photos from an m.2 ssd is also a nice improvement over traditional hard drives or basic SSDs.

[@hughellins1422]

very interesting

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Since creating this video Luminar Neo has been updated and improved. You can get the newest version on sale here: bit.ly/NeoSale and maybe save more with coupon: ATNEO10 (sometimes Skylum de-activate the code if there's already a promotion running but worth giving a go!)

[@min_chau6564]

Thanks for this beautiful tutorial One question.. if i go to layer properties...i see only Opacity sider..do i miss anything? Any idea how to erase or blend and modify other layers?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Yes there should be more. Do a search on my channel homepage for "layers" and you'll find a few vids you should find helpful about using blend modes etc.

[@wanderingsoul59]

Evening (from here in the UK) - great work as usual. I never fail to learn something useful when I watch your videos. Just a quick question (and I'm sorry if I've missed it in the comments) - when would you apply Noise Reduction? I have always treated RAW develop and Noise reduction as a pair - mainly as they are paired together at the start the entire process. Is this the correct assumption?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

For the way I work, it depends on the level of noise. If the file really needs help then I'll hit it as a first step paired with dev raw. Otherwise I may just use a light pass of non-AI noise correction at some point.

[@wanderingsoul59]

@@AnthonyTurnham thanks for that. I'm a novice photographer in a lot of ways. Many thanks for the advice

[@bublt4me]

When do you suggest we use the Pro Tools? Should we save it for the end?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Hmmm, that's a nuanced answer depending on the tool and the use. You need a unique approach for HDR merge, pano stitching etc to get the best out of them, and whether you pre-process the photos before using them depends on your output needs and workflow. TBH each one would need a video of its own.

[@paulhayward444]

Great advice, thanks. At what point in the sequence would you recommend to do sky replacement?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Early on, after develop raw and making the photo technically sound, but before any creative work.

[@harthamm]

Thank you. Where in editing flow do presets and LUTS fall? Are they non-destructive, destructive or both?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

All depends with presets what's being applied. But effectively it's throwing a load of tools over the top of your photo so it's subject to these effects. Luts are just a "filter" manipulating colour and tone. They will affect subsequent tools for sure and should be used towards the very end of the process. Usually as a last touch

[@nutin321]

This is critical information. Does the same apply to On1, LR/PS, C1, etc.?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

No, not in Lightroom or Capture 1. Depends which On1 program you're referring to, and yes as you build layers and tools in photoshop it's also subject to these effects of changing orders. Some are more pronounced than others.

[@nutin321]

@@AnthonyTurnham Thank you for your reply. I guess that this consideration is rather specific to Neo.

[@michaelpegg8966]

Thanks interesting

[@62cliffD]

very good to know

[@edwardkillesteyn1479]

Thanks Anthony. Another eye opener. But, doesn’t this mean that Luminar’s claims of non destructive editing is somewhat overstated. I use both Luminar and ON1, the latter i think maintains non destructive editing throughout the editing process. Kind regards.

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Luminar has many pixel level creative tools that by their very nature move away from the raw pixels. As soon as this happens its impossible to maintain a raw editing workflow. However the original file remains in tact. You can always remove tools and step back in the edit so from that point of view there is no actual file destruction, so strictly speaking it's non-destructive. If you stick to the raw develop which is pretty much all lightroom offers then in Neo too you're still in a completely non-destructive workflow.

[@josecolon8143]

So should I not use it as a plugin bcs files are TIFF or tiff files are fine? (Considering your work order)

[@AnthonyTurnham]

It works fine with tiffs and jpegs too you just need to be aware of the order thingy. Usually activating it as a plugin you will already have done some type of raw develop in lr or ps etc so you'll be fine. I often use Neo this way.

[@josecolon8143]

@@AnthonyTurnham 🫡🫡

[@AnthonyTurnham]

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[@jixal]

Once you've done an edit with a tool, is there any way to change the order of them in the stack?

[@AnthonyTurnham]

Frustratingly no. I asked the developers about this and the reason thy haven't "allowed" that function is to do with all subsequent tools having to be re-rendered afterwards based on the underlying changes, which will inevitably take a re-calculation which may frustrate some users... I'm not sure I agree with that rationale but there ya go...

[@marcrjacobs]

Is this issue of the raw edits first, and then the pixel based (destrctive) edits coming later true in apps like Lightroom classic and ON1 Photo Raw as well?