Avoiding Overtraining & Fatigue, Collagen Supplements, and More - Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 462

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// TOPICS COVERED
(0:00) Welcome!
(2:53) Hannah’s recovery strategies for stage races
(5:28) Nutrition that helps you recover between races
(18:42) Is the pro peloton behind the curve with nutrition?
(23:23) What Hannah learned from racing the Mediterranean Epic
(33:17) New Triathlon plans including Masters Plans!
(37:15) Big Update:Red Light Green Light is in Early Access!
(56:24) Overreaching vs. Overtraining
(1:06:52) Avoiding fatigue with strength training
(1:20:14) Could collagen actually make you faster??
// RESOURCES MENTIONED
- Enable Red Light Green Light here: www.trainerroad.com/app/profi...
- Mediterranean Epic Results: sportmaniacs.com/en/races/med...
- New Triathlon Plans: www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/a...
- Red Light Green Light Early Access: www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/r...
- Hydrolyzed Collagen Supplementation on Lower Body Stiffness in Recreational Triathletes, Nunez-Lisboa et al., 2021: trainerroad.cc/Lisboa2021
- Influence of specific collagen peptides and 12-week concurrent training on recovery-related biomechanical characteristics following exercise-induced muscle damage-A randomized controlled trial, Bischof et al., 2023: trainerroad.cc/Bischof2023
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[@jeremyleake6868]

Nate’s sleep story is exactly what I’ve had the past few weeks. Going to sleep easily, waking up for no apparent reason at 2 or 3am, going back to sleep, waking again or being awake for an hour. Then falling back to good sleep at around 5am! I tried dropping caffeine but it didn’t make a difference. Realised my legs were slightly pulsing at night - I’m now on a rest week and sleep is gradually improving!

[@tknight9674]

Todays pod cast and red light green light made me finally decide to sign up for a training plan.

[@augustgames6502]

I'VE FINALLY HAD IT! Listening to this was UNBEARABLE. Trainerroad just because completely unresistable. Long time listener, finally ready to pull the trigger. I just have to try TR.

[@TryHardNewsletter]

Hope you enjoy structured training. I would probably find it too boring. Unstructured mountain biking for me because it’s actually fun. It’s really weather dependent though 😢

[@fifthcircle1]

🙌🏻 Same here! I used it for structured trainer workouts many years ago. I went ahead and signed up, and started a training plan. Masters Triathlon. I'm back baby!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

[@siyz250]

FINALLY! Thank you for stating what happens to me, (and it seemed only me) after a big day riding or a hard training session I always sleep poorly. I feel like I am the only one who has this. No one I ride with, read about or listen to seems to suffer as I do. It's real. Main reason l have found 1 day on, 1 day off is the most volume I can achieve. Thus so I get 1 good nights rest the day after my training. Si, Christchurch, NZ.

[@starlitshadows]

Great podcast this week guys. The overtraining and recovery stuff was good timing for me.

[@MiguelAugusto1982]

So many hot spot topics touched on this one. You did it again TR team! 😊 Thanks again! 🙏🏻👍🏻✌🏻

[@TrainerRoad]

Glad it was helpful!

[@asun3630]

One thing people dont mention is how eating late at night can affect recovery. Studies suggest if you have to digest while you sleep energy is taken away from recovery. Is this true? Or Bro Science? How many hours before bed should a cyclist not eat? PS Trainer Road is incredible!!! Hosts are amazing too!

[@davidhughson189]

One of the best analysis of eating during stage races. I do 2x TT’s (5K, 10k) , and 2xRoad races (20k, 40k) per weekend once or twice per year for Senior Olympics. Fueling is a real challenge. I will NOW be doing better. THANK YOU

[@Mtn603]

A couple of years ago you guys had presented a study where vitamin c prior to intake of collagen peptides resulted in significant increase in collagen absorption. This is anecdotal, but I gave it a whirl for a summer, and experienced significant improvement in plantar fasciitis symptoms that I had been dealing with for multiple years. For reference, I’m primarily a cyclist who runs a couple of times a week to cross train. And thanks for some great dialogue today 👍

[@hondas562]

I’m definitely in the opposite camp for eating. When I’m riding a lot it’s the one time I don’t feel bad about eating like a campground raccoon. I have to watch how much I eat because I feel ravenous even after moderate training days.

[@zazzleman]

I have been taking a collagen supplement with a hyrdration shake. It has really worked for me. The fatigue has improved dramatically.

[@bobkatanga]

Great video today team. I really enjoyed it. Well done Hannah on a great result in Spain.

[@SeanThompson-mj6ky]

I love TR. My favorite is low volume, and add in a couple of fun rides a week.

[@oliveoil2x]

Nice discussion - appreciate the open, info packed dialog. 👍🏻

[@TrainerRoad]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@NyleRaps]

I went super hard this weekend, with three days of intense training. While listening to this episode, I turned on red light green light and had a bright red day today. 🛑✋So I’m gonna chill TF out.

[@CannondaleDad]

Love how Dylan Johnson calls out TR about overtraining and too much volume... then you make amendments and take on that feedback.. Awesome. I will be signing up and switching over from a competitor.

[@jnatiw]

Nate's point at 51:25 (about other metrics that may not come into play with RLGL) is excellent and something I have overlooked time and time again over the years. Right now, actually, I'm struggling with getting enough sleep due to a work shift change. Tuesday/Wednesday was very challenging, specifically. Today I had a threshold workout scheduled. Got less than one interval in and pulled the plug. Even though it was a "green" day and I've not had too many yellow or red days of late. It would be easy to say RLGL is not working for me. But TR can't be responsible for every potential training challenge we might have (yet). Long story short, I bailed on the workout and finished my planned two hours with endurance. Live to fight another day. Which sounds so weird coming out of my mouth. Speaking of which, I got quoted not once, but TWICE during that section. Guess I'm pretty excited about the new features, too, Nate! 👀🤗 As always, super helpful stuff. Thanks. 🙏👍

[@scotth3354]

Great point from Jonathon re: body work vs strength work. The term 'strength work' in the fitness field has a fairly specific meaning, basically it's about lifting heavy stuff, not too many times. As for how to include strength training w/out too much fatigue, think about it like this: would you just add in an hour or two of really stressful training into your schedule and not expect problems? At least in the beginning, you have to cut back somewhere else when adding true strength worth.

[@robtt27]

Strength training is just that, strength training. Body weight exercises do not build "strength" for cycling. Stop doing high rep sets in the gym. That just makes you tired on the bike. Keep it to 4 sets of 4 heavy squats OR deadlifts followed by 4 sets of 4 single leg leg press OR lunges OR step ups. Keep the rest between sets at 3-5 minutes. throw in some calf work at the end. 45 minutes and your done. Yes it's a lot of sitting around but it's for strength. Keep a note book so you can track the weights of each exercise to know you are progressing. I do this 2 times per week and not fatigued on the bike at all and my strength has really improved.

[@MiguelAugusto1982]

51:30, I use Whoop also, and it helps a lot with the other factors like bad sleep and/or stress and/or alcohol, etc.

[@cynthialee6147]

Congratulations, Hannah, on your powerful performance at Mediterranean Epic! What a rare combination of "Beauty & the Beast" you are. Competitors beware:)

[@marklewis7484]

Loving the RLGL, already using it and it's so fantastic. (pls bring back Chad)

[@Zhiloreznik]

I’m doing climbing where tendon injuries are common. So naturally there are collagen studies if it would help with healing/recovery. Studies show there is no improvement especially if you compare it to whey protein supplementation. Thing about is as long as you eat enough protein there is no point in supplementation with collagen. Whey is much better alternative

[@familybikeguy]

I'd be curious to hear a little more about the timing of your "carb load" - like 48hrs prior? 24? 12? 4 hrs? 2hrs? Can you share what ya eat at certain points out from race start time? (the info about eating between and for stage racing is awesome BTW thanks!)

[@DavidC-rt3or]

To me, seems that the fat vs carb debate really depends doesn't it? depends on the person's effort level, race duration, bodies abilities. Aka if in (Z3/Z4) low oxygen level pacing, carbs seem a must, but whether you'd bonk or not would depend on duration of race, their fueling and body's ability to process the food taken in. If doing a longer endurance event (more of mostly Z2 pace) then seems fat would be more useful for the long sustainability (more resources to access). Dr. Dan Plews comes to mind in Ironman.

[@lokerola]

Yes, please give us old guys (sorry, masters,) 2 weeks on and 1 week recovery as an option on the masters plan (super-masters?).

[@tomigun750]

Hey Jonathan, with all the lactate testing you do, how accurate do you find the Garmin estimates to be in relation to lactic threshold?

[@edgibbs3229]

People should do twice as much pull exercises as compared with pushing to prevent shoulders hunching forward.

[@mnbv5555cxz]

how are there yellow lights on red light green light??

[@Critracer]

Wait I thought the masters plan was for the higher level racers . Is it ment for older people . In Training ?

[@CrabgrassFarmer]

FWIW I started taking 18 grams of collagen every day and my fingernails got so tough that my fingernail clippers have a very hard time getting through them.

[@Critracer]

Can you give a quick mix recipe for on bike fueling ? I think I heard you say dextrose, fructose or sugar.

[@TrainerRoad]

Yep! You can get bulk glucose and fructose from Amazon or other similar online retailers. Then mix it at a ratio of 2:1 with glucose:fructose at whatever amount you want per bottle. If you aren't adapted to high carb intake on the bike, start at 60g per bottle (1 bottle per hour), then work your way up gradually over time to 90-120.

[@Formula369]

Look for Formula 369. It’s already mixed for you and is very affordable.

[@ehuremovic526]

I've had success specifically with dextrose glucose and fructose with the 2:1 ratio stated above. Things I've learned along the way, granulated sugar doesn't dissolve easily and it's way too sweet, maltodextrin doesn't dissolve well and gets everywhere. If the ratio of 2:1 gives you gut distress, a ratio of 1:0.8 is a good alternative.

[@theotheroneb1548]

HAHAHAHAHA OMG I enabled the feature and my calendar is mostly yellow and red. I was not prepared to see that lol. I dont manually add my gym days (and I'm big into powerlifting) so I bet the ai is going nuts trying to figure out why I'm so cooked all of a sudden then I'm better like a day later. Cool feature though, and it could be handy.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

Definitely low carb off season when intestines are low. It's a great time to learn just how far you can go mentally and physically without carbs. I have a family history of diabetes so I have to be very careful with my carbs and as a result I do pretty well on low or even no carbs. I'm also lighter without carbs so power to weight ratio goes up.

[@cervelodavid]

Is this limited access or can anyone enable this early access feature?

[@MiguelAugusto1982]

anyone can. go to website, account, early access, enable ✅

[@MiguelAugusto1982]

55:54

[@cervelodavid]

@@MiguelAugusto1982 Thanks, no idea how i missed that!

[@TrainerRoad]

Thanks, Miguel!

[@beanlandgm]

Why does Nate look so much younger? Care to share your skin routine?

[@richardmiddleton7770]

Could the shift to higher and higher sugar intake during exercise be from an increasing 'insulin resistance' and carb dependence in the population which can also explain the increase in obesity?

[@steeevt]

“Unlimited PTO” - schedules the standard 2 weeks off 😅. Unlimited PTO is a great strategy to not pay employees their PTO balances when they leave but “unlimited PTO” is always a red flag when I am reviewing job offers. Promotes a culture that makes people apprehensive to take their PTO more so than having a set amount to use without guilt.

[@donbarnard82]

Yeah my company kept tweaking vacation policy over the years until they landed with 'unlimited time off' -of course you're still expected to bill xxxx hrs per year so really it's a certain amount of time off followed by time off you can make up for with overtime. hehe This is in addition to the culture issues you mentioned.

[@StephanieLuff]

Sshhhhhh stop telling everyone my collagen secrets 🤫

[@TrainerRoad]

You've been holding out on all of us!!! ;)

[@StephanieLuff]

@@TrainerRoad 📠😂

[@funfunfanfun]

Yeah, drink coca cola, what a great advice, especially coming from a 20-year-old specialist nutritionist. ... Remember, at 20 everybody thinks they're undestructable....