The Best Way to L-Cancel in SSBM

[@dexneuf5584]

will this be on the midterm

[@Conellu]

No, but it will be on the Final Exam.

[@Mugen_YG]

story of my life

[@drakoz254]

These videos are melee's modern version of those ancient smashboards guides

[@Jack-ps2ic]

you already know who it is 😀 its me, kira

[@312bigbeanburrito]

It's so much more detailed

[@EugeneJOooOo]

New gen is hella spoiled lol

[@redstealth5106]

I like your profile pic, reminds me of Okami ingame

[@taylorbee4010]

I guess 15 years is ancient to a 15-year-old

[@guren_mk_II]

Damn here I thought I should hit the L button

[@ch3rry833]

L stays for Lag

[@hibernate44]

@@ch3rry833 what does the z for Z-cancel in 64 stand for?

[@ch3rry833]

@@hibernate44 Zig (maybe zag)

[@doq]

Not necessarily true. L- and Z-Cancelling are just named after the button (*a* button in Melee's case) used to perform the technique.

[@finmin2k]

@@doq L-cancel is Lag-cancel Z-cancel is Z-cancel, cause the only button you can input a z cancel with IS Z

[@garo7839]

Now I can beat Zain.

[@Kafyuzu]

Checking in after 3 years, did you beat Zain?

[@Dantakurai]

@@Kafyuzu Yeah, in Ultimate. LOL

[@Acryte]

Regularly L-cancelling with Z is bad if you aren't on a B0XX. If you mess up an perform an aerial too early while you are still in lag or not in IASA frames yet then your aerial doesn't come out but then your FF L-cancel turns into a late landing aerial. A soft press on L/R does not have this drawback! If you are on GCC you should still perform L-cancel with L/R. B0XX uses Z because that's just the best layout they came up with. For example, my layout has light press R, hard L, jump and c-down on homerow, while thumb has A, Z, and the other cstick buttons. Essentially I can perform hard or soft L-cancel on homerow without accidental Z aerials while still having WD on homerow. However that's because most characters don't need B on homerow. For Fox this isn't really an option. B0XX layout was specifically made for Fox since what works for him in general will work decently well for others, however that doesn't mean other layout choices aren't more optimal for other characters. An additional button is freed up if your controller uses WASD or left thumb for analog Up instead of wasting precious homerow real estate. Unfortunately, right now B0XX and F1 only use 2 buttons for left thumb but 5 for right thumb. A third button to left thumb group would easily accommodate said arrangements allowing for Up to not waste space on homerow and freeing up non-Z light L-cancels and WD on homerow depending on if you're not a Spacie. Just thoughts to throw around in future design decisions.

[@Zinksk8er]

When you say "stay in lag" are you meaning in hit lag for either the aggressor or the receiver? And what is a late land ariel? Trying to understand the argument against Z button L-Cancel.

[@NobodySSBM]

Immediately went to remap my smashbox layout after this video, thanks.

[@Rintse]

This content is dope, but I still don't get how this is an argument against button remapping...

[@burntfish123]

Bc swapping z and r will make it so that you have to digital input L cancel, which is objectively worse

[@Fireblaze3127]

It's really not lol, the b0xx is super designed specifically to be the most optimal for fox and no hard trigger on home row means you can't wavedash on reaction (unless you use pinky L, which is really awkward)

[@Rintse]

@@burntfish123 I totally agree it's objectively better if the objective is to play the game optimally. What if for some reason the mapping just doesn't work for me, and I don't care too much about being optimal? Especially with remappable alternatives entering the market, I think it makes no sense to force people to use the optimal mapping, when clearly not everyone wants to (just check twitter...)

[@sampletext02]

Because it isn't. Most people aren't saying that Hax is incorrect, but that they should be allowed to modify their own product they paid for without some dummy throwing a tantrum on the internet.

[@rpotts]

@@burntfish123 but you could choose to swap L and Z, or Z and B, or Z and up or something, that wouldn't go against hax's argument about analog L cancel on home row, it would just allow people to customize the product to suit them. Especially apparent for disabled people or those with missing or limited motion fingers.

[@StellarNinjas]

Button remapping should be allowed. Let people make their own mistakes. It's also possible you've made a suboptimal layout and we don't know it yet.

[@benjoleo]

GameCube controllers also have a suboptimal layout though. I don’t know if giving the box yet another advantage over pad would be smart

[@KalebSDay]

@@benjoleo You're arguing against a theoretically better button layout, when the Boxx's creator already tried to make it the most optimal it can be. That is ridiculous, let people remap if they want for their own taste or the specific game they are playing. If they are wrong point it out, but don't stop the ability to remap for other games too.

[@CommandoBlack123]

@@benjoleoIts good with claw grip

[@TheHairyKnee]

Finally, some asmr so I can sleep peacefully

[@NevrotikAvalokitesvara]

came to say this. it's the melee version of sleep with me podcast

[@KentAustinHenry]

Button remapping should be allowed

[@absolutelynathan2453]

I mean to be fair it is, hax just doesn't provide a program for it. You can do it if you wanted to but you'd have to modify it yourself which is a pain tbf

[@daviddotorg]

@@absolutelynathan2453 He will call you out and act like it's the end of the world if you do though.

[@DiscipleX00]

Button remapping should be allowed because not all your customers play fox. Not every character benefits from this configuration. Good argument for fox but this fails to account for every other viable character. The company that is more flexible and gives their customers options will always win because they realize that they might not be the smartest in the room other people can come up with their own remapping that is just as good if not better.

[@burntfish123]

I mean I understand wanting the option, but fox isn't he only character in the game that benefits from being able to tech after a late aerial

[@blackpyjamas7987]

People who have built a bad habit of full pressing the trigger can practice breaking the habit when they SHFFL by going to the 20xx hack pack and going to debug menu > training codes > l cancel options > and turning on "no l cancel on full L/R press". I've built up this habit myself but thanks to this video, I can start on breaking it. I hope this reaches people like me who built this full press habit

[@yannilibbes8219]

except I want home row to be R X Z up because I play peach and not fox. I get that you're worried about boxx getting banned or people doing what they want with a product that they paid money for, but it's super myopic to not allow a button remapper considering the F1 has it. you're just being Sakurai

[@Altimor0]

that would make up B unergonomic

[@yannilibbes8219]

@@Altimor0 fair point, but i need to up b much less often than I need to wavedash. having to move my hand to wavedash matters more than having to do so for up b. people have different preferences and i'd prefer not to have to open up my box and swap wires to do this.

[@lazyyfox7914]

These videos feel like computer security exploit walkthroughs but for melee.

[@CrunchyMaggots]

Excellent video once again! Superb stuff. I'll definitely be using this recommended layout as well. With that said however, I'm very disappointed to see the doubling down on the lack of remapping support.. (continued below) It completely disregards those who wish to play other titles, including fighting games such as CVS2, or Tastunoko vs Capcom (the latter of which is system locked to the Wii to this day), as well as those with physical disabilities. There are plenty of valid use-cases for a customer to want to remap their controller, and locking out the ability behind the pretense of doing it for their own good, completely disregards and diminishes entire subsections of your userbase. To expand upon the fighting game example, the inclusion of LS to the top row conflicts heavily with traditional fighting game input layout, and cannot be remapped through in-game means, and being unable to assign a jump input to the Mod/C-Stick zones also greatly inhibit the user from taking advantage of tiger-knee canceled motions. It's completely understandable and okay that a design laser focused around Melee wouldn't take these into consideration, but input remapping allows unexpected, and frankly unpredictable use-cases to flourish. By actively pushing against this, you're alienating entire groups of players, including those who play more than just Melee with their $200 controller, as well as those who may not have the same physical dexterity as your or I. If your concerns are as singular as wanting the best for your players, a default ship layout, and a video like this is more than enough. The vast majority of users adopt the default controls regardless. The decision to lock-down the platform only serves to hurt your image, as well as your chances of appealing to wider audiences, myself included. I've been a Box-based player for years in traditional fighting games, but did not like the Hitbox Company's policies, and built my own out of wood in 2014 (pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/558118348/1455578167/1500x500 ). I've maintained throughout the years a support for the Smash scene's adoption of these types of controllers, as well as yours. I've lately been on the fence about picking up a box style controller, as a way to bring me back into Melee/Ultimate, and as an avenue for playing TvC and other games I have for when friends are over/a bracket comes up in the future. The only thing stopping me was the pricetag. The decision to disregard this entire subset of players does greatly upset me, and with the Frame1 recently showcasing a competitive pricepoint, AND support for other platforms plus remapping, I'd all but decided before any of this came to light that I'd be grabbing one. I know I'm just one customer, and won't pretend that I'll impact your bottom line, but please do reconsider your stance. This kind of attitude is exactly what pushed me away from the hitbox company in 2014, and is putting a nail in the coffin for consideration of one now. The Frame1 has been ineligible for pre-order for months, and will likely continue to be for some time. You have an opportunity to address those with similar concerns rather than drive them away. Even if it's too little too late for the existing design, a commitment to changing that for the future would do wonders. And you can hold me to my word, I'll get one. Thank you for your time & consideration.

[@ZachStarAttack]

This comment sucks dude. Hax should lock the control scheme to melee because thats what is optimal. If someone from the ffc wants to rebind it, they shouldn’t. And this isnt about a bottom line for hax. Its about letting more dudes play melee

[@lonkster]

@@ZachStarAttack you missed the mans entire argument 💀💀

[@ElSSBM]

The reason he did it is mainly for ergonomics as like he said. The way it would be made would be unergonomic as well as making grabs more uncomfortable making grabs harder assuming you switched z and r. I do agree it may be a good option. I will say hax's point about not having it is good.

[@Spunney]

all of the replies to this comment are frankly stupid and seemed to be from people who didnt actually read the thing they were responding to. button remapping is unequivocally a good thing youd be delusional to deny that

[@sonriku7331]

Ok I actually did not know that hitlag actually helps you for L-cancels. Good video

[@Hibernial]

I wasn’t aware of the details of this tech. I always end up z cancelling now, after I tested it out to compare it to the full press R cancel I was so used to. At first I thought “how much better is using L and R to L cancel,” and then I tested things out in online play and saw using z flowed much better and more reliably. I spend less time in headspace while playing Falcon, since he relies a lot on maintaining momentum in part through a flurry of ariels. It’s great to know the “why” after switching an old habit. Awesome video!

[@ToThePowerOfX]

Neat, now show us why you think every single layout decision is objectively correct and no other remapping could in any way be more comfortable or optimal or ergonomic for characters other than Fox and for people who don't have issues with their left thumb. There is no good argument for why you should limit your customers from swapping a Mod button with L.

[@samyboi420]

@@someguy2016 the consumers opinion always matters why r u triggered

[@d0943]

he doesn't limit it, you can edit crane's code.

[@AlejandroRodriguez-lw2pj]

now you should know why

[@jshortohlongrp]

Cool, now that you've educated everyone, no need to worry people will shoot themselvs in the foot and you can make the remap software.

[@rpotts]

I like the detailed analysis but would appreciate actual tips on how to execute said things. Are you meant to light press L then release then digital press afterwards in only a few frames to both analog L cancel and then early tech, or can you light press L then without releasing full digital press?

[@jazionpurnsky1185]

Light press and full press activate different buttons so yes you could just complete the motion. Likely to be situational though.

[@crustykeycap5670]

I think you should use different buttons, like analog press with z then digital press with l. Or you can analog press with r then digital press with l.

[@passion4drums]

Hey, so I think I'm just gonna swap my Z and R buttons.. You don't have a problem with that right?

[@jrkb89]

Don't do it dude! Your hands will bleed!

[@hurlevent4728]

Funny how he doesn't talk about double buffered L-canceling in such an otherwise in-depth video

[@farleydbear]

synopsis; use light press or z to l-cancel so you dont waste ur teching input. early tech is good if ur going to get hit right away, late tech if you want to hold onto your teching frames for as long as possible.

[@ZachStarAttack]

No

[@havengulzenith2198]

@@ZachStarAttack which part of this is wrong?

[@garfthebased1882]

Finally wash this blood off my hands

[@kyaaanon1304]

the "L" in l-cancel refers to lag, not the button being pressed. its not exclusively a melee term.

[@lucalyons-sosa9843]

Ill comment on every one of these videos till I die. They have helped me so much in becoming a better technical player. Thank you so much Hax. Never cease to produce them, they are excellent.

[@infierno9250]

Im gonna be honest watching this over I was confused for I am new and also too stupid. So I looked up other videos to understand it better at a simpler level and what you're basically getting at is since full press activate tech it keeps you from teching after you get hit. So lightly pressing for the L cancel is better because if you get hit you still have the tech option ? Please correct me if I misunderstood this in anyway shape or form. Again I only have like a month in melee so I am super noobish at the game.

[@piercehacquard4747]

This is exactly right. : )

[@as4675]

This is so cool. shffl is the first thing I learned in like 2014. The depth of this video reminds me of the old Kadano videos.

[@Hibernial]

When you thought Melee was deep during mid 2010’s, but post 2020 the sage wisdom starts getting rolled out front and center.

[@seand2100]

The Sal Khan of melee

[@SoppyBiscuit]

This would have been nice a few years ago

[@kelownatechkid]

Not allowing easy remapping is frustrating. There are other gamecube games that would benefit from the ability to change the layout easily. The boxx could be much more useful since it could be adapted to work ergonomically with all of those games, which IS in the customer's interest. Perhaps someone will release a tool...

[@bluefalcon7]

This has the same presentation as those videos that instructors show in college that explain how to use the equipment safely.

[@ThatWolfArrow]

I knew I wasn't a weirdo for using Z to L cancel!

[@Rhycebell]

If your on a gcc you are

[@00ooo000o]

amsa actually L cancels with z

[@Rhycebell]

@@00ooo000o yeah so does hbox

[@00ooo000o]

@@Rhycebell oh fr? the only problem i have with it is sometimes i light shield if i just barely hold for too long

[@Rhycebell]

@@00ooo000o hbox uses z for airials too hes a weirdo

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Hax I am sorry I disregarded so many things about the boxx over the past 2 years. I just recently built my own box and I am realizing how useful all these videos are. While they can be super boring they have a lot of great info. Like Z being used for L cancel is huge and make a big difference but I will still use L/R on regular controller when I am using a normal controller. However I do still stand on the side of thinking the box should be banned until we can make everything balanced. The fact I can go in and literally make a macro for perfect wave shines on fox and map that to a button is not cool. Techically I think there is a rule against this but no one is checking controllers so the rule is pointless.

[@DoomoBebop]

I really like this video, but hesitate to speed up, and have more rythm, it would be more diggest. Example : smash corner But the presentation and the profound understanding is incredible ! Keep up the good work !

[@Fynmorphover]

yea i think in general, Hax's videos are too long, maybe he could make 2 videos, one whos just the summary, and the other with indepth examples and such.

[@rrob1487]

Shout out the the boxx fixing this bad habit of mine automatically

[@skrill3348]

To be honest I don’t even know what the fuck you are saying but I still payed more attention than I ever have in school.

[@Micha-Hil]

spam R and pray it works

[@uw10isplaya]

I'm high and going down a melee rabbit hole. When I realized (about 5 minutes in LMAO) that this video was by Hax Fucking Money, it made me irrationally happy. I can barely shffl like a normal pleb, so you can imagine how much like Alice I feel listening to this about gravity aerials and box controllers and shit. Awesome to see Hax though; last time I saw him he was a TF one-trick in league of legends lol.

[@surfingraichu7594]

Amazing stuff as always! The deeper we dig out melee’s secrets the sicker the game becomes❤️

[@archlordXd0]

Did anyone else keep expecting him to talk about confetti?

[@EA_SP0RTCENTER]

And here i am doing 2 frame techs when it could have been easier

[@kamekings]

The reason Lcancel used L is the L stands for lag. When I was a young buck I was confused why L was used when you could use R or Z. The old school crew head grapers is who told me that.

[@emmbeesea]

Basic Melee Advanced Technique Methods 401

[@taylorbee4010]

Also why does Smash Brothers players still use the term lag when you can use the term hitstun

[@cruintention]

Turns out HBox spamming Z for everything was right all long.

[@RTU130]

Z is bad though

[@salj.5459]

ICS Wrong

[@devonhajduk9107]

@@salj.5459 I've slowly used z over the span of time I played melee, felt natural and effective especially if a finger needed a break from L or R.

[@laffy7204]

So you can extend the window with the C-stick? That's sick

[@RationalFunction]

No, what you do is lightly press L or R to l-cancel, and then hard press when you need to tech.

[@mattforbes3670]

I don't understand, why not let them choose to analog L cancel with a button that isn't on the home row?

[@JavierPwns]

Z is the only button you can analog L cancel with on the boxx controller since none of the buttons are pressure sensitive and pressing Z on a gamecube controller technically counts as a light shield input

[@nogard0497]

So top players not teaching could be a mistake, not just trying to get a read on their opponent.

[@abjoern]

Isn't analog L-cancel the way it's taught? I thought that was how everyone did it. Idk if I'd even be able to full press a trigger and release in time to not accidentally shield sometimes

[@Saskaruto16]

A lot of pros like Leffen and Zain hard press and advocate it as better because you will automatically tech if you are hit by an unreactable mixup you didn't expect. This however could also be achieved by Hax' method shown here by soft pressing to L cancel and then hard pressing during your landing lag. Hax' method is theoretically more optimal but also much harder to do. Literally doubling the inputs and requiring you to be able to release the hard input in time to not accidentally get shield.

[@abjoern]

@@Saskaruto16 oh that makes sense. Now I'm unsure if I should switch to full press lol

[@Saskaruto16]

@@abjoern I'm debating the same thing myself. I currently use Z (GC controller) and I tried hitting R during my landing lag like Hax said and honestly I don't think it's viable on GC controller without modification or maybe trigger tricking. While Hax method is technically superior Leffens hard press model seems much more practical especially on GC controller.

[@abjoern]

@@Saskaruto16 oh yeah, his method is obviously geared towards B0XX users. I think I'll stick to what I currently do. I don't think it's *too* hard to full press if you're expecting a tech situation and light pressing otherwise

[@Saskaruto16]

@@abjoern Yeah it's mostly for the box. I will probably continue using Z to L cancel cause I find it easier to press it more than once sometimes so I can get the L cancel on whiff or hit. Then I just tech when I think I'm gonna get hit after I land. I main Marth anyway so it's not like I'm gonna be hitting people with negative on hit attacks and be able to tech out of their conterhit in practicality.

[@NAND512]

this is on the final, right?

[@LactationMan]

Best content in the game

[@mcdonaldolds]

that ending though

[@itsyaboi1245]

Hax$ got the best goddamn shffl nairs in the game

[@jackalvonstone250]

That's still a dumb reason not to include a remapper. I like it how it is, but man. That's a dumb reason

[@falcolom]

Go rewire it if you really wanna remap

[@mikey-hm7dt]

Great video Hax, but when is HNC S2E2

[@sagacious03]

Neat explanation! Thanks for uploading!

[@jensvide777]

Ok, good arguments! But still, let people remap buttons.

[@clutchedbyanangel]

"Don't ask me if I've done the math, I ALWAYS do the math." HAX$, probably

[@r.d.drowned9332]

Man I hope this guy doesn't post some crazy shit with a file extension in the title any time soon.

[@biblical_figure]

I laughed and lol'd and lmfao'd and jej'd and rofl'd and kecked

[@parad01x]

nice video!

[@sfaxeh2389]

Only hax fucking money would upload a 17 minute long video about how to press L.

[@taylorbee4010]

I can't be the only one that does this with the r button

[@Afflictamine]

why would I be teching if I'm doing the L cancel ? I thought you only tech if after you get hit ?

[@alxetiger4470]

For example, if fox CCs your nair, fox can shine you out of your SHFFL before you are actionable. This shine will be teched if you L-cancel properly. There are more interactions than just this that you would need to tech, this is just 1 example.

[@R4NK4Z]

Dude, this is beyond good and evil

[@successfulfailure1298]

I only play melee with my roommate. Why am I watching this?

[@RTU130]

Because you want to move beyond that and see what you're really capable of

[@cfalcon8342]

Where can I find all of fox's moves' hitlag frame data?

[@MFsyrup]

Still can’t turn on the bell because KZbin thinks this is kids content :/

[@TheNahrstedt]

Woah controversial Leffen said to hard press ooooohh

[@unaipolo9162]

Hmm whats the difference in terms of input between Analog and Digital?

[@JavierPwns]

Digital inputs are either 0 or 1, on or off, pressed or not press, analog inputs can be anything between 0-1 so 0.25 0.5 etc., for example how far down you press the gamecube trigger buttons like in super mario sunshine, since the triggers are analog inputs the more you press down on the R trigger the more water Fludd squirts

[@batteries671]

awesome content

[@Hologramburrito]

how about a tutorial about how to use the boxx properly?

[@Rael0505]

!whylcancelz

[@prince5063]

Bonk

[@shivangpatel4640]

This is BY FAR the best Leffen diss track

[@RustyChickn]

Peach players “what is L cancel”

[@LordRyu_]

Aziz posts a new video? I watch.

[@sorenwittwer8100]

Is analog L-cancel light press on L and R?

[@rpotts]

light press L or R, or press Z.

[@RTU130]

@@rpotts Why Z? Isn't that digital?

[@rpotts]

@@RTU130 The Z button is digital, yes, but it triggers the lightest light shield possible. You can't tech with it or powershield either, both of those need "digital L or R" inputs

[@RTU130]

@@rpotts i thought hax said not to l cancel with z because you could get locked out of tech. My B if I misunderstood im trying to figure it out, isn't it still harder though because hitlag?

[@RTU130]

@@rpotts should i still use z? Is it the best option?

[@Puffzilla777]

Wait so you wanna hit Z?

[@shiina4861]

this is so fucking insane

[@DharkMode]

These videos are very interesting though I don't play Melee 😓

[@EllisG123]

But I want Z where X is ..

[@SL-pt1ib]

Loving the videos Hax$, thank you for the information! Can't wait to see you shit on everyone in 2021.

[@THEFEZFEZ]

So L cancel with Z. Got it.

[@n0lain]

Analog L-cancels will buffer light shield when held during the end of landing lag, digital will buffer regular shield. Since regular shield is usually the better of the two when preventing a counterhit after whiffing and aerial, I think that's definitely an advantage to digital L-cancels that should have been mentioned.

[@thegeeeeeeeeee]

Light shields are bigger and push you away from your opponent. They are really good compared to regular shielding if you know how to use them . Also try to conserve your shield. You shouldn’t be sitting in shield long anyways since you will get punished hard. On top of all Haxs points, I think analog is much better usually

[@n0lain]

@@thegeeeeeeeeee A lot of the time you buffer shield after L canceling is to block their attack and give yourself a chance to punish, basically getting advantage back (depending on how frame negative their punish was of course). Light shield is good if your shield is low but being pushed far away and having more shield stun is usually not great in those scenarios, can definitely be good though don't get me wrong. And yeah I agree his other arguments are solid I just thought he should've mentioned the drawbacks.

[@general.kenobi]

All hail the hero of 20XX

[@benleman6033]

Idk how to normaly shffl yet the fuck

[@FoUr-ko1rs]

20XX

[@KalebSDay]

Never understood why people hard press L-cancel, just wasted effort.

[@salj.5459]

Leffen's propaganda

[@turtlechamp8325]

I only press it hard because pressing it light or pressing z for l cancelling hurts my hands

[@7ukaa]

oh god

[@DigitaIJustice]

Hax, my man, you’re a great technical writer but you gotta learn some brevity.

[@wes8448]

Smile

[@mlalbaitero]

I l cancel with z

[@Afflictamine]

I watched the whole video and I didn't understand any of it lol

[@MageKirby]

PepoG Press L

[@Prikense]

why remaping is bad in 17:00

[@hunky1013]

push L

[@urallnoobs8943]

Basically, Hbox was right

[@urallnoobs8943]

@@RTU130 he's always L cancelled with Z

[@salj.5459]

ICS No it isn't?

[@michaelcastelpoggi1735]

Hey check it out xD, this guy just learned how to.. wait what?

[@alexanderlane7863]

#freehax

[@ehitale]

Is this what Foxes do in their free time? Jesus Christ.