BACCH4Mac Overview and FAQ | Tom Martin Reports...

Tom Martin announces the BACCH4Mac as the 2024 Product of the Year, he answers some frequently asked questions about BACCH and follows up on his previous review.
BACCH4Mac Review: • Theoretica Applied Phy...
Andy Quint’s BACCH Preview: • Preview: Andrew Quint ...
Guide to High-End Room Treatment: • A Guide to High-End Ro...
Newsletter: www.theabsolutesound.com/news...
Facebook: / theabsolutesound
Substack: www.theabsolutesound.substack...
About Tom Martin:
Tom is a long-time audiophile. He began his reviewing career after acquiring the The Absolute Sound magazine in 1997 and then hi-fi+ magazine in 2002. He has worked closely with Harry Pearson and Robert Harley at TAS and with Roy Gregory and Alan Sircom at hi-fi+. Since Tom and his teams expanded the TAS and Plus platforms in the digital domain, he has served as Chief Content Officer.
What Is The Absolute Sound?
The Absolute Sound magazine has been a leading publication in high-end audio since 1972. Since the early 2000s, The Absolute Sound has expanded to include web, newsletter, digital magazine, social media, KZbin and Substack platforms. The Absolute Sound platforms have a global audience of over 500,000 audiophiles.
#hifi #audiophile #theabsolutesound

[@peterlundskow4061]

Thank you was the clearest explaination of what BACCH is all about. This is the second time you have helped me make a choice. The last time was helping me decide to go with Maggie's, which I have nto been so happy with in the months since getting them!

[@davehousteau6760]

I have had the Bacch for a while now and can tell you that you get the same rewards on analog as you do for digital. I use it on both LP and Tape.

[@imosolar]

What's about the sound quality

[@davehousteau2324]

The original character of your system remains the same, but it becomes specially enhanced .

[@gtrguyinaz]

Great review again Tom… I will demo the basic shortly..

[@stn9947]

The best bang for the buck money you can spend as an Audiophile. We had intro and upgraded to the Audiophile w/ Optimal Room Correction and there is no going back after you put this in your system. Highly Recommended!!!

[@ericelmore887]

Is the intro version a noticeable change to standard listening. Also if you own the intro version how much is the upgrade if you decide to do so?

[@stn9947]

@@ericelmore887yes the intro gets you 80% there, the addition $4k for the Audiophile version gets you there 100%, buy now by 3/3/24 you get orc for free!

[@thomasmartin2219]

Basically $4k (the price difference between the two software versions, including the hardware for HRTF measurement).

[@joek6207]

Is the intro only worth it? I have Polk L800’s, so I think I need something pretty effective to be worth the upgrade. I recently heard the head tracking version at Axpona

[@sbonamo]

Thank you, well presented. I think the biggest Market segment limitation will be A) Mac - only version and B) Analog source limitations, although I did hear you say it can work on analog, but a review on the benefits of analog would be very helpful.

[@davehousteau2324]

Yes and it works with analog exactly the same with all the same benefits.

[@joshuaschneck]

Thanks. Definitely intrigued. You alluded to it at the very end of your video, but my main concern stems from having to add a noisy Mac mini in my signal chain. I would think many other audiophiles would share the same concern.

[@davehousteau2324]

Yes, a belief held by many, myself included, until I bought the system. Hearing is believing. It simply works and the Mac is not a bottleneck for anything. Find someone that has the B4M and pay them a visit.

[@charliecroker2541]

Your humility is refreshing. I very much appreciate your educational review BACCH. Am keen, this has helped. Thank you.

[@mikeconnell698]

With various room treatments, my speakers can sound completely bright or completely dark and all points in between. I think the room is responsible for 2/3 of the sound of a system. We don't listen to our speakers, we listen to the room and the speakers are simply driving the room. I'm looking forward to trying BACH4MAC because I think it will solve a problem I haven't been able to solve with this point of view. I looking forward to testing it out.

[@felipegomes-ho4yi]

While I have the Bacch Audiophile version for 2 yrs now and enjoy the soundstage and 3D magic it provides, I still feel that resolution changes a bit , causing some kind of digital artifacts especially on sharp accurate sounds such as a drum hi-hat or even snares. Did anyone else notice that?

[@dlensmith]

Thanks for mentioning this, I will let you know when I have a listen after I purchase it. Interestingly I haven't read anyone else mentioning anything orher than possible tonality changes.

[@raphaelmeillat8527]

Thanks for this helpful video. Very intrigued by this product. Will try to find a dealer that can demonstrate it.

[@tms0425]

Congrats to Edgar and the Theoretica Applied Physics team! Very well done review, clearly broken down and explained, easy to understand. That is not an easy task with the Bacch technology, and clearly the video must have been a ton of work to research, prepare, and produce. Now, right on the heels of Bacch, comes Optimal Room Correction (ORC), which is an entirely different approach to room eq., fully integrated with Bacch processing. Exciting times

[@davehousteau6760]

Yes. ORC is outstanding and in another class of it's own, just like the original Bacch processing.

[@joek6207]

Heard this at Axpona this weekend. Was an absolute game changer! I’m likely going to purchase a Mac mini and a the intro license I have a pair of Polk L800’s and these hit different

[@imosolar]

Great KZbin channel and bacch SP review. Am interested in it

[@ColocasiaCorm]

Here comes the BACCH hype train. Choo-choo!!!

[@fernandomaldonado3583]

Tom excellent job describing BACCH XTC and its benefits. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts on the newly released ORC. I am completely blown away by ORC.

[@thomasmartin2219]

ORC setup is tomorrow. Glad it works well for you.

[@ronaldneale2013]

@@thomasmartin2219what is ORC please can you send me a link to it

[@zekiy6597]

it would be good if you could tell us how you go in and out of the mac in your setup - is it in and out over usb? because this surely adds a lot of noise to a high quality signal path

[@naren.freak1c]

Does this software usefull for dipole speaker like linkwitz lx521?

[@labalo5]

All credit to the theoretica team. XTC experienced through bacch is break thru.

[@audiorick841]

Great review. Would love to hear more about the other Baach products that don’t necessitate a Mac.

[@thomasmartin2219]

We’ll put a link to Andy Quint’s review of the BACCH SP in the description.

[@audiorick841]

@@thomasmartin2219 Thank you i’ll do more research on the hardware based Baach. I have an absolutely fantastic Grimm MU1 streamer which I can’t figure out how to integrate with the Baach for Mac so I’m thinking maybe their hardware solution would help me around that.

[@davehousteau2324]

They are all great products, but understand that the results you obtain are the same. The one box solutions are for convenience and for those who's religion does not permit having a Mac Mini anywhere near their audio system.

[@kevinriordan4922]

Is the consensus that BACCH4Mac (with a good DAC) sounds the same as BACCH-SP or is SP better?

[@jeffglotzer9346]

This is very much like Polk SDA system. Even a pair of the lowliest models from the 80's pull of this removal of crosstalk trick. The difference is the same higher focus, more spatially revealing around voices and instruments, even with very budget gear. I've listened to a friends pair in the last few months and his system is entry-level with some vintage gear. In ways, it bests my new Magnepan 1.7i's even with fuse removal and binding post replacement mods. Getting rid of the lmodr and rmodl is really key. Now if they could put this in an analog preamp... Very nice work Tom as well.

[@Lutznn]

I have been watching most of this video and I still have almost no clue what this is and how this thing actually works. Is this purely a software application or is there a physical box? If purely software, how do they justify the extremely steep price for the product?

[@thomasmartin2219]

The software starts at $980. It runs on a Mac with an M2 chip (the physical box). The product does crosstalk cancellation to reduce the spatial distortion imposed by stereo playback adding signals not on the original recording. As for the price, I would say it is a function of the complexity of the software (high) and the size of the market (small).

[@Lutznn]

@@thomasmartin2219 Hi Tomas, thanks for your reply. That sums it up nicely! I also suppose that the customers for the fully featured application are already heavily invested in their systems.

[@adamos9879]

Sounds a lot like Bob Carver's Sonic Holography generator. It also works in exactly the same way, to eliminate crosstalk distortion ie the superflous left right signals directed at the opposite ears. I believe one of the reasons many listeners had difficulty in hearing a major improvement, was that the left and right speakers relative to the listening position eere set a lot closer in. If I remember correctly the speakers were supposed to be spaced something like 6 feet apart (correct me if I am wrong). The net effect of this was to a acheive what Tom is describing, essentially a more 3-dimensional image with much improved image specificity. The difference here is that the Sonic Holography Generator box that contained the processing, was conneced into the system preamp loop via analogue cables, whereas the Bacch4Mac solution is more custom programmable in the digital domain. Very interesting. Bob Carver is a bit of a genius init?

[@thomasmartin2219]

Carver is a genius. Bob’s system did not, to my knowledge, have custom HRTF compensation or head tracking. I don’t know how the analog approach affected resolution. Or FR. But still, Bob was ahead of his time.

[@Mike-vb6qw]

I'm hoping there will be a forthcoming review of the BACCH Optimal Room Correction (ORC) system in the near future.

[@thomasmartin2219]

Yes, I’ve been traveling so my ORC set is 3/4, then listening can begin.

[@goodsound4756]

As an audiopile I am curious and would be willing to give it a try, but for the same reasons I do not intend to add an electrical noisy laptop to my system. If it was a Roon plug-in that I could install on my server, yes, but not a second computer that is worse than my optimised server, just nope. Sorry.

[@thomasmartin2219]

For your situation I believe there is the BACCH-SP. We’ll put a link to a review in the description.

[@dlensmith]

In Tom Martin's setup scheme, he has his Roon on the MacMini and shows uBacch on the MacMini as well. Don't you have to have a DAW for uBacch to work with Roon? I have a similar setup but use a Windows PC instead of a MacMini and uBacch offers a PC plug-in but I think I need a DAW like JRivers Media Center to integrate uBacch with Roon? I didn't understand his comment about how uBacch is connected to Roon. Can anyone share some light on this? NOTE: It seems I am getting confused with the u-Bacch plug-in offered by Bacch Labs, also for $980.00 with the Bacch-dsp Intro software? This is very confusing.

[@LonBaugh]

I agree. The scheme for implementation is confusing and no one (including the manufacturer or its sister company, BACCH Labs) has provided any illustrative guidance. In the case of Tom's explanation, I believe that there is another element not included in the explanation that is present with the BACCH4Mac implementation - a hardware interface that allows the BACCH application to be applied downstream (?) of Roon. I've confirmed with Roon that u-BACCH is not compatible with the Roon architecture and I see no present efforts by BACCH Labs to produce a version which would be compatible. So those of us running Roon must either add a DAW implementation for those of us running Windows (which I've not yet figured out) or add the Mac Mini and the hardware interface (which I really don't pine to as this stuff would be added in very close physical proximity to my stereo equipment in my listening room). I'm presently considering adding JRiver alongside RoonServer on my music server, whereby I could access my library via JRiver (with u-BACCH as a plug-in) or Roon for my standard hi-res listening (where no DSP of any type is present). I'm still trying to figure all of this out and have come across no great illustrative explanations so far...

[@thomasmartin2219]

I set up (really Edgar at Theoretica set up) my Mac Mini as a Roon Core. We then used that, set to render via BACCH4Mac. No other application software was required, although I believe the BabyFace Pro that is used to interface the HRTF measurement mics may provide some licensed glue software. I could have run my Roon Nucleus into the MacMini via USB, but we chose to run Roon on the Mac thinking that was a more representative configuration.

[@dlensmith]

Thanks for the clarification Tom. I reached out to Theoretica via email concerning my setup and the u-Bacch Intro which is software only and they have been very responsive, to more than one of my overly wordy emails so this is very encouraging 😄. If I understand their response thus far, it seems if I use a Mac as my Roon Core, then the implementation is fairly simple. I download the u-Bacch software to the same Mac and it connects to my Bryston BDP-3 Roon Ready server via the USB connection, as does my current configuration which is a Windows laptop for my Roon Core. There were other ways to implement it if I keep my Roon Core on the Windows laptop but it becomes more complicated. I am just waiting for clarification on how I would add the BabyFace Pro and mic for HRTF measurements if I take an upgrade path in the future. (I think it has become very confusing with Bacch Labs also offering u-Bacch software for the exact same price of $980.00 which apparently doesn't work the same way as Theoretica's Intro package. I was very pleased with Theoretica's quick and detailed responses.)

[@_944audiophile]

Hoping this product will evolve to benefit more than a solo listener at a time.

[@davidpetersen7091]

Excellent discussion. Mr. Pete-------> aging hippie

[@dripslobber]

Can an Ipad be used in place of a Mac Mini?

[@thomasmartin2219]

I don’t believe so. BACCH4Mac is built for MacOS. Theoretica also recommends an M2 as the minimum processor.

[@Fluterra]

Smyth-Realizer was the first to market with this tech. That was designed for headphones and could recreate a fully Dolby ATMOS system through just 2 channels.

[@AllboroLCD]

Software seems daunting as all hell to learn.

[@thomasmartin2219]

You don’t have to learn it (though you might want to). Theoretica walks you though the complete set up over phone/remote control. Then you are set.

[@bryanherr1093]

I got a free trial as a college student and they were less than cool about offering me any support for their terrible UX. Quite arrogant people to deal with.

[@mikelautermilch8939]

An excellent presentation - clear, detailed, and thorough. The naysayers on here just kill me. They dismiss it without having any firsthand experience with it. It reminds of people who railed against the automobile and stuck to their horse and buggy.

[@adrianalexander2651]

Good Job- Tom!

[@tkl0111]

Headphones system would add crosstalk to emulate speakers setup while speakers setup try to remove crosstalks. The irony.. 😅

[@thomasmartin2219]

Note that adding crosstalk is not part of the headphone requirements for head-externalized imaging.

[@vincentwerner4856]

Why no Windows, or even Linux, version?

[@thomasmartin2219]

I believe there is a Windows plug-in, but we didn’t test that.

[@dougg1075]

Cool

[@jowblow2171]

Trust the science, and this time it wont kill you.

[@TriAmpHiFi]

Can you say 'Yamaha Digital Sound Field Processor' from 1982? I owned one. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊

[@TriAmpHiFi]

. Lol. There's one for $42.50. I paid $500 in '82.

[@geickmei]

Tom, I need to know where you got the idea that stereo is a two speakers, two ears system in which a mythical left channel microphone signal is supposed to go to the left ear and the right to the right ear. Did you read that somewhere other than the Bacch literature? This guy has confused stereo with binaural for some 30 years now, trying to tell us that the crosstalk is a "problem" with normal stereo. It is not. Nor does stereo have to be reproduced with 2 speakers, nor is stereo limited to the area between the speakers. Please respond.

[@jimbeglinger]

Hey wait....it's only March, don't you want to call this the 2023 Product of the year....you appear to be suggesting there won't be anything else out there that might be introduced in the next 10 months that might be, even slightly, a better Product of the Year - 2024

[@thomasmartin2219]

We’re treating it like the Academy Awards. The 2024 Academy Awards are for movies released before 2024. We hoped that sort of timing was obvious by doing the awards at the beginning of the year. We also thought these observations were relevant for people shopping in 2024. The goal, in any event, is not to pronounce judgement on all products on the market; we aren’t in a position to do that, nor is anyone else, simply based on the math of thousands of products and hundreds of reviews at best. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

[@steven2809]

You really should have edited out the error at 21.42....it was brain fog confusing...!

[@thomasmartin2219]

Apologies. The simple version is that the whole term on the right side of the diagram wasn’t fed into the original recording intended for your left ear and shouldn’t be going to your left ear. You can think of the term as “R+LmodM” or “Error Term” or “Spatial Distortion” or whatever you like - it isn’t supposed to be there. But it is, so it needs to be cancelled. Hope that helps.

[@steven2809]

@@thomasmartin2219 Thanks for responding... 👍

[@stimpy1226]

This is a product I won’t waste my time with.

[@mikemalter]

Yeah, stick to posting.

[@scottwheeler2679]

We will alert the media

[@rsmood8362]

Lollll z

[@raphaelmeillat8527]

Congrats for posting the least helpful comment for the community!

[@imosolar]

Lmaooo