BACK AND FORTH - IS ATTACK ON TITAN TOP 5 OF ALL TIME?!

Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Can 1 Hashira beat the 9 Titans
11:52 - Which civilians got "hoed" the most: Wano or Dressrosa?
26:15 - Is Attack on Titan "Top 5"?
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[@RDCworld1]

Back and forth the most underrated series is back!! Also spoilers for AOT guys! 40k likes? Please like for back and forth

[@KJALMIGHTY2.0]

Y’all the goats frl

[@dragonfruitgang7357]

Also tegan is the fastest hashria and a shinobi he is trained for endurance

[@jcblazer0470]

Yessir 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@nicouzamki4582]

Love y'all content RDC , part 2 ? And TBH titan would wipe a hashrima

[@jcblazer0470]

​@@nicouzamki4582This is already part 26

[@ReaIities]

Back & Forth is easily one of their best series. Perfect for background noise while doing things like work, studying, etc.

[@obafemianjorin5866]

Literally listening while doing hw rn

[@dominicandrus7027]

The best

[@rashaunn3546]

Listening at the gym rn

[@cliffordjackson3]

FACTS.

[@bradley8614]

😂They yell a little too much for me to study to, but I see your point

[@SK-XMBCBH]

The fact that Mark is saying his family is most important to him, so he's rather watch them DIE than watch them live happy lives without him is the most backwards shit I've ever heard😂

[@malrulesall9669]

That’s mark 💀😂

[@King_X884]

But they wont live happy lives

[@zackycookie]

@@King_X884 rather have them live a generally unhappy life, with a chance of being happy, then not let them live at all

[@TheRewindSession]

@@zackycookie id rather see my love ones in a safe environment not sick and dying than seeing everyone i love die.

[@zackycookie]

@@TheRewindSession fairs

[@Master-Of-None616]

Can’t lie DB is the WWE of anime. Came up in an era where it’s field wasn’t mainstream, pioneered its industry forward, became the representative of its genre, and many who watch it after it’s golden age don’t get why it’s so popular. You had to be there

[@angelsppp11]

No cap, that's a great ass fucking analogy, because you really did have to be there to fully understand.

[@jzagg9362]

They don’t understand cuz there’s better anime than dbz. The whole “you had to be there” is just nostalgia

[@Master-Of-None616]

@@jzagg9362 Lowkey you just proved one of the points of this comment

[@jzagg9362]

@@Master-Of-None616 Yea that “you had to be there” that’s literally the nostalgia talking

[@Master-Of-None616]

@@jzagg9362 More like you can’t appreciate the story because you can’t place yourself of what it was like to watch db in it’s golden age with no outside knowledge but aight bro

[@gabrielalas174]

The reason attack on titan might not do well in the past would be do to the form in which tv and anime was consumed back then. You can’t stumble into a random episode of attack on titan on tv and be easily hooked. It was hard to be able to find whole shows and seasons outside of theirs tv slotted times. That’s why a simpler plot like dragon ball z worked because if someone randomly watched an episode it wouldn’t be too hard to understand what’s going on and therefore make you more likely to pick the show up from there.

[@Eli-akad]

I believe there can be exceptions to this, however I honestly think ur right. Just going off of my own personal experience sometimes just being able to jump into things and still get what’s going on usually is more enjoyable. There are times where I’ve watched shows with advance overarching stories however, and sometimes I can get hooked on the plot of that episode. Enough so where I eventually become interested in the show. But asides from that u make a very good point

[@Watermelon_Man]

Not to mention that seasonal anime was FAR less common back then. If you got an anime, it just ran until it was over, so AoT would have a TON of filler since it’s monthly and therefore produces less content on average (page count) than an average weekly manga produces.

[@Moeinheaven]

This goes for almost 90% of anime lol

[@traviscue2099]

This is where the Golden Age of TV came in, like in the 90s it was mostly random adventures (Hercules and Xena are good examples).. I remember when it was all the hype to come home for a weekly show.. Heroes comes to mind.. But now when I watch a series I need long format and it to be serialised. I hate random episode stuff now haha

[@gabrielalas174]

@@Eli-akad I do agree that you can get hooked or enticed by advanced stories like attack on titan but trying to find its entire media after is a harder task to accomplish in the past compared to now. If it was in the current day then surely you can get hooked and easily go find the show and start from the beginning instantly while comparatively in the past you would have to go searching for physical copies that could take weeks or months.

[@kurimiaisukurimu]

The moment Armin decides to transform, it's a wrap. Hashira are fast, but they ain't dodging a nuke.

[@fidelostorga4550]

Tf you talking bout.....they can

[@evanvazquez3923]

didn't gyutaro blow up a town? they probably just tank that shi ngl

[@boubacarbari8291]

nigga this is a nuke equivalent 💀, also the founder is op end of story@@evanvazquez3923

[@retardedgenius6892]

Its literally a nuke and the hashira are humans Its just not possible im sorry Demon slayer characters arw not that strong

[@frostymarc5468]

on god @@evanvazquez3923

[@meatsweatsland]

With Tanjiro being able to cut through a boulder before defeating his first demon opponent, I think a Hashira can easily cut through Titan crystal.

[@raymondndayambaje7182]

Facts

[@whoisyunglip5989]

Facts

[@OGRia]

bruh any hashira would demolish all 9 titans together, also the founding titan cant do shit to a hashira since they not subjects of ymir

[@223sfa6]

⁠@@OGRiathey don’t need to be supjects of yumir for the rumbling to kill them

[@kingace6186]

Cutting a rock is nothing. That's beginner level shit for any anime with swords.

[@Zoro-cp9bj]

John is deffo right about the fact that Attack on Titan wouldn’t be popping back then the way it is now. The main demographic of anime/manga was kids who’s main focus was fighting and cool stuff. Which makes sense why we loved DBZ/Bleach/Naruto etc. Us growing up made us realize the amazing writing and faults in the likes of One Piece/Naruto etc. Also us growing up with anime and maturing opened us up to more mature series like Death Note/Code Geass. Which brings us all the way to Attack on Titan which aligns with our age and what story the author is trying to tell us! The opposing ideologies, racism, the complexity of humanity etc. The point John is making is that a series of Attack on titans magnitude would go over our heads if it came out when we were that young! Many would go back and watch it as they grew up but it still wouldn’t be as big as it is now. Examples who fit this would be 20th century boys and Monster. Two spectacularly written manga but came out in a era were most anime watchers was young kids who would rather watch straight fighting

[@benbryant6648]

Well said, if aot came out back in the day most people wouldn’t have even seen it cause of it’s hiatuses, not to mention shit wasn’t on demand so it would be very hard for you to keep track of it, let alone gain new fans.

[@Smokedetector1]

True dbz was definitely targeting kids didn’t realize the writing was mid until we got older

[@trailersforfun2669]

Honestly really solid points, that being said, there’s a reason it didn’t come out back then

[@Footballazz]

I agree wholeheartedly. Another thing against Dylan’s argument is that every point he made to detract from DBZ, you can say the same about Naruto, but yet he still had Naruto in his top 5 (above AoT). Naruto has way too many flaws to be in a top 5 (still one of my favorites) if you’re being critical and ignoring nostalgia and impact. And I’m not just talking about filler. I could say the same about One Piece probably but I’ll leave that alone since I haven’t seen it. For me, with Nostalgia and Impact and all of that involved it goes 1. DBZ 2. Gundam Wing 3. Attack on Titan/FMA brotherhood (I honestly can’t separate them) 4. Fate Zero 5. Hunter x Hunter/Samurai Champloo (I can’t separate these either) If we ignoring Nostalgia and shit 1. Attack on Titan 2. FMA Brotherhood 3. Fate Zero 4. Hunter x Hunter/Samurai Champloo 5. Cyberpunk: Edgerunners The fifth spot could’ve really went to a bunch of shows tbh. Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Darker than Black S1, Black Lagoon, Code Geass and Vinland Saga. Cyberpunk probably got some recency bias going for it tbh but oh well. I ain’t seen Stein’s Gate, Baccano or Monster yet but they could probably be up there too once I watch them based on what I heard

[@kelvin4910]

​@Footballazz one piece and hunter x hunter are tied imo, Vinland saga is probably 1

[@One_Dolla]

Can we have more of these episodes please cause this was truly back and forth!!! John and Dylan were killing this

[@thetruesquad5059]

Dylan been hating tho dont get it twisted To hate on dbz and act like aot had the perfect ending is CRAZY

[@81droid81]

The ending was great 🤷‍♂

[@aryangrewal9408]

@@thetruesquad5059when did he say perfect. If u were even listening they said multiple times that it wasn’t perfect but great (which it is)

[@FlashReturns]

Also to John's point about AoT possibly not shining in the 80s and 90s is actually valid. Cowboy Bebop and NGE are heralded is masterpieces yet during their time they were outshined by the typical Shonen battle anime. Those weren't the animes that made anime mainstream in America. Those were Pokémon, DB, Sailormoon, YuYu Hakusho etc. It's more likely AoT would be NGE back in DBZ era rather than it being more popular than DBZ

[@redcloudm5]

Exactly John point was valid but he hurt himself not being able to name well written shows from that era

[@FlashReturns]

@redcloudm5 True, but him not being able to name those shows, as well as the rest of the cast, further proves his point imo.

[@andrebryant5081]

​@@FlashReturnsFacts

[@user-rw3nd2ls6f]

I was literally thinking of those 2 and berserk the whole time. So frustrating he couldnt name one lol

[@joshbeckett9255]

​@@redcloudm5yeah all he had to say was berserk and evangelion. They're literally from the 90's but undisputed in every top story list

[@zcargill3]

1:03:00 John is right when he says people weren’t looking for those kind of stories at the time. And I have one anime to prove it that made a huge comeback in recent times and is widely loved. DevilMan Crybaby was an anime that came out in the 80’s (yes late 80’s for those who really know) but the story always had substance to it just not the eyes. When DevilMan made a return it was huge and people were really regarding the series as one of the best not knowing it’s based on a story from the 80’s scene. I get John is bad at bringing up examples in a lot tf this video but he was 100% correct that people back in the day weren’t looking for stuff this deep diving. Devil man is a story that was overlooked cause people didn’t really care or didn’t see the message of the show but now all of a sudden the younger people who watched the Netflix version understand the story better than those who overlooked it in the past. Timing means a lot when it comes to what’s going to be popular or widely loved by the public. Also DBZ had good writing when it came to Raditz and the Saiyan saga if you went from Og Dragon Ball to Z. It was a major twist that Goku was an alien and now he has a brother that wants to dominate everything for their race and he doesn’t have that sense of attachment at all. Then finding out he can turn into a super saiyan and the ozaru form wasn’t the only thing he got from being an alien was fucking mind blowing. I think the problem is really due to when these shows came out. Cause a lot of these arguments wouldn’t be made if things came out at different times. Like let’s be real here if DBZ came out in 2023 with updated animations and no filler would go hard af. If it jumped straight to each saga no one would be saying “it moves slow.” This id the problem I’m talking about when it comes out. If JjK was coming out at the same time DB or DBZ came out it would be filled with filler and be considered good for certain qualities yet hated for others.

[@WouldURatherHoops]

So true and the way Devilman Crybaby ended to I don’t think people would’ve liked that back then either

[@JoseRamos-mb1gj]

Back and fourth with yall is so dope and tagging in a more knowledgeable member is great. I love when yall discuss these topics among each other

[@thelightseeker94]

Season 1 and 2 of attack on titan are some of the best anime highlights of the decade. It hits a lot harder never reading the manga not getting spoiled. Trying to solve the mystery in your head of how the Titan thing started. I was falling off watching anime around the time when naruto and bleach ended. But AOT was one series that brought me back.

[@caleb_riordan]

Im glad I started watching only 2 years ago and not way back like some people because I wouldnt have been able to cope with it ending

[@Dundun11]

nah but like don't be sleeping on season 3! Season 3 was some the best pay off in all of aot with some really sick fights

[@thetruesquad5059]

​@@Dundun11s3 part 2 was FIRE all the fights then reveals about beyond the walls

[@Dundun11]

@@thetruesquad5059 BRO it hit so different but honestly I will say this as well part 1 of season 3 is a little slept on imo because that's where they started cooking and revealing more of the titan abilities and I really enjoyed

[@Bd0t_1400]

Not gonna lie season 2 was boring to me but I understand your point ✊🏾

[@KobeASF]

Attack on titan going down as one of the GOATS man even with the subjective ending, how did Isayama cover that COMPLEX ass story into a boy who just wanted to kill all the titans. One of a kind plot. Keep grinding RDC!

[@crystaleniola]

frrrr!!!

[@anaskhan-sr5oz]

frrr

[@geronimo1595]

Facts, all those twists and turns just made eren’s mission that much more epic. Classic show.

[@BoxingisgoatedBoxingisgoated]

still not top 5 to me

[@patricktorres1292]

@@BoxingisgoatedBoxingisgoated what's ure top 5?

[@ibrahimrazaq2488]

Watching John stand his ground made me happy 1:00:05

[@porkyonfroy8338]

Do they ever mention the fact that eren lost because he wanted to lose? Mfs don’t realize that if eren didn’t have a weak spot for his friends they wouldn’t of even made it to his back let alone kill him

[@thelocalhoodrat2881]

The toys in Dressrosa couldn't "just leave" they were under Sugar's contract Kyros was the first toy in Dressrosa that's and sugar forgot to do the contract thats why he was able to move freely

[@TRJ42]

Not only that doflamingo took all the money from the civilians and had king Riku, the beloved king of the country nicest guy ever and have him kill the civilians. That gave him the money.

[@zqShadowMonarch]

@@TRJ42yeah but they didn’t know that. They only found out during the time luffy was fighting doflamingo.

[@samscholz5024]

Sounds like Fan theory nonsense used to cover up a plot hole. Any evidence in the actual story that shows this?

[@manningforever1]

Nah yea and they was like that for 10 years. Idk it’s close bc Wano def got hoed but idk if I could live as a toy slave for 10 years w no hope of ever going back😭

[@augustineacevedo37]

​@@manningforever1 but they eventually did get their bodies restored. Wano got the smile fruits, that's a permanent effect. They have no cure 😢

[@dominick366]

I’m not gonna lie this is my favorite series from them, shows their individual personalities

[@arkei8500]

i love these podcasts man, keep them coming please

[@DragonNinja83]

Titans are getting cooked quickly by the hashira, especially if they know the nape weakness, which they could find out easily since they are already trained to do so with demons

[@rightguy200000]

They not beating the colossal

[@karma9340]

@@rightguy200000with demon mark they beat all titans

[@rightguy200000]

@karma9340 Nah he incenerates them in steam as soon as they get close.

[@DragonNinja83]

@@rightguy200000 spoiler for final parts of AOT Hange was able to kill a few of the rumbling colossal titans before burning up and we all know for sure how much quicker and stronger hashira are then hange

[@rightguy200000]

@@DragonNinja83 Those were mindless titans. Watch how fast Berthold incinerated Armin the instant he decided to kill him.

[@bjm121100]

A simple demon slayer speed feat that was overlooked about rengoku: if you watched the mugen train arc (series Not movie) at the very beginning there was a demon covering cities in seconds on a killing spree and rengoku ran him down and cut him down (with the demon having a huge head start) before it could kill that girl and old lady

[@dragonballe3146]

LITERALLY!!!

[@Taydaray617]

Surprised that was even an arrangement

[@Ryfrythecookedone]

Bro but it's not killing none of the 9 titans

[@doom7607]

rengoku is far faster but the colosal titan is a literal nuke that will instantly kill rengoku The war hammer titan can be piloted from afar making it a constant threat rengoku has to avoid leaving him no time to for a break at any point He has no way of knowing to go for the nape so the fight will drag on and any hit from the titans will permanently impair rengoku The founder can make more titans appear and the assault titan has precognition so they will be aware of what they are going to fight and they can easily make a plan (with the colosal titan as the win condition)

[@Ryfrythecookedone]

@@doom7607 Fax also if rengoku got close he'll look just like Armin

[@maaoruzketo]

I feel the AOT vs DBZ argument is tough to do because they're from completely different time periods where the standards of what is amazing were different. DBZ innovated a bunch of what modern anime take from today and you can see all of Goku's grandchildren and great grandchildren running around. The way the villains and characters like Future Trunks were handled was amazing and they were all unique and distinct both from each other and from other characters existing in the landscape at the time. I think the same way DBZ wouldn't beat AOT if it came out during the 2010s, AOT wouldn't beat DBZ if it came out in the last 80s and early 90s. The landscape was simply different for what folks were interested in reading.

[@fattygamer94]

If attack on Titan came out in the 80s or '90s, it definitely would have blended in to other animes of its time. It will probably have that same darker tones like Gundam, ghost in the Shell, Akira, Appleseed. A lot of modern day animes have really gotten away from Mecha, robot, space, post-apocalyptic kind of vibes

[@maaoruzketo]

@fattygamer94 bruh I never thought of it like that after all these years 😂 AOT is a mecha anime. It's literally a "Modern" Gundam (I know they still make Gundam series).

[@user-yj9rw2oy9g]

You one of the few niggas that understand future trunks saga through dbz and super alone already secure dragonball as some of the best anime story writing ever… his ssj rage in dbs, future gohan and the androids killing him etc all that shit is amazing if you think more deeply…. Trunks is a half breed with more potential than normal saiyans and he’s had an entire life of trauma and intense battles from androids to zamasu the cheese lord god enemy narcissistic mf lol… time travel and time rings etc handled perfectly… such an apocalyptic scenario akira toriyama held it down fr on that entire storyline over the decades

[@ippourameshi7535]

DBZ wasn’t in my top 5 but damn Jon makes some good points. DBZ is the reason why we have so many good anime’s today. Transformations, power systems etc

[@rais6036]

Ain't top 5

[@beanhead5398]

​@rais6036 it's top 5

[@danielvasharin4452]

Dylan is forever a legend for not letting that nostalgia bs slide

[@PeniceParker]

no he’s actually stupid lol. the misconception that dbz took episodes for a charge up showed his ignorance. he fr was talkin nonsense this episode

[@MachinaOwl]

Ngl saying that people only like something purely for nostalgia is a really lazy criticism. Are you saying it's poorly written or boring? You're just stating that people liked it way back when lol. People often leave it at "nostalgia bias" and that's it really.

[@PeniceParker]

@@MachinaOwl exactlyyy. its ignorant

[@danielvasharin4452]

@@MachinaOwl I think you’re kinda missing the context of the video if you’re saying something like that. They literally broke down the nostalgia bias and what it actually means. For reference, a show like dbz which is relatively boring and especially poorly written in a lot of places, is carried immensely by nostalgia and impact. Two things that have no place in any kind of legitimate ranking of quality.

[@dashaunmckenzie5357]

Impact and nostalgia are a way folks cheat to say old shit is great. I’m glad he stood on DBZ having issues

[@QuintBlitz]

Reason that AoT is a top 5 show is because EVERY SINGLE EPISODE MATTERS. No filler, no huge, episode long flashbacks, there is constantly something happening in each episode that has you connecting dots and asking questions, or just flat out amazed at the spectacle.

[@Johnin3D_]

Yup!

[@Shaq1q]

Im pretty sure Grishas flashback was a couple episodes long but that shit slapped, some of the best aot episodes

[@johncrowley3322]

Aot is overrated, literally while it was aired noone cared except for the first and last season. Every ep of dororo matters aswell.

[@KingPWNinater]

​@@johncrowley3322🧢🧢🧢

[@rkoobi654]

EXACTLY!! You are always on ur toes on AOT but on Naruto and one piece they be adding stupid fillers that ruin the momentum of the show

[@nickgibson3451]

DBZ story and world building is actually crazy if you look back at where it started in Dragon Ball. The fact that Toriyama took it from a adventure story then built on strings like the Ozaru, the fact that piccolo and kami, and red ribbon army, and expanded that to the saiyan arc, namek arc, the android arc, and all of the kai shit building into the Buu arc really shows a huge amount of world building from previously mysterious and small story points that should be respected. If anything, the characters are 1D compared to today as far as the writing, but the fact that you come to like the characters and point to them as one of the main reasons it is great regardless of the rest of the story shows how far you can go with simple characters and a huge scope for conflict points.

[@whyme4825]

Even crazier when you realize that he was pretty much coming up with the story on a weekly basis. He was just making more story on the spot.

[@emmanuelmaggit4760]

Dbz has very little world building. Y’all have bout 4 different spin offs which one of them had nothing to do with the main story. Dragon balls build ups are legit new sayiain or fusions and the obvious villain. And the fights are legit somehow I’m going to be stronger than you in the middle of this fight with no explanation as to why other than plot armor. If we talking about story and world building dbz is definitely not it and there is nothing wrong with that because dbz would still be in my top 5 because without it most these other anime’s won’t exist

[@whyme4825]

@@emmanuelmaggit4760 Maybe watch the show and don’t let someone else’s opinion dictate your own. Fusions have shown up a total of 3 times in the canon story and the only surviving “new saiyan”is Broly.

[@emmanuelmaggit4760]

@@whyme4825 I did watch the show lmao I put dbz in my top 5 all time dbz doesn’t compare to other anime’s story wise if you think that then that’s your opinion but in my opinion dbz doesn’t come close to these other anime’s as far as story and world building. Their opinion ain’t my opinion it’s my opinion I watched every dbz series including gt

[@KampzOnXbox]

As someone who grew up on the og Funimation dub and havent seen any other since, once I read the manga a lot of my problems with dbz story were quelled. The dialogue and pacing makes so much more sense in Toryiamas manga.

[@Raj-qh7ic]

Y'all mentioning the caliber of anime now forgetting that the reason why the anime now are popping is that they are taking the concepts from pld anime and building their own story from those concepts, alot of anime copy dbz's style (tournament arcs, transformations etc etc) and that's not a bad thing e.g. naruto and jujutsu kaisen jujutsu kaisen and so many other anime use the naruto's concepts and build great stories. And you can't knock dragon ball's impact because without dragon ball we wouldn't have the type of anime we have today even in the 90s they used dbz's formula another example yu yu hakasho, the mangaka themselves admit they read dbz and admire the work and toriyama helps several famous mangaka write their characters dbz isn't just about impact, its simplicity is second to none there is not one technique that you don't understand, there isn't one thing in dbz that's too hard to understand which is why it was so easy to watch and love anime nowadays over complicate their techniques and stories too much and lose their audience because of it the audience is trying to understand the techniques more than the anime itself and the fact that every arc transitions so seamlessly yet toriyama and his editor kept changing the story is an impressive feat. Mangaka nowadays can't do that, the android 19 and 20 were the big bads but the editor said "i ain't feeling that" then he added 17 and 18 and toriyama said "nah i ain't feeling that" and then cell first form was the final villain and the editor said "nah i ain't feeling that" same thing with the second form cell yet it felt like the ending was always perfect cell and he wasn't even in the original ending

[@iDanvari]

Le and Dylan are tripping on the Titan argument Mark’s reactions to how bad these people got rugged in both arcs is hilarious I hate that I was under the influence of some Guinness and I totally spoiled the AoT ending for myself by not skipping the segment. All good my fault gentlemen Couldn’t agree more with the GoT take 100%. They had me dying “they started Covid” Solid picks for Top 5 Mine would be Z, one piece, Naruto (should’ve ended at pain and then fought Sasuke after), cowboy bebop, and Attack on Titan. In the future it’s fringy regardless of the amazing story. Great segment boys! Looking forward to the next one

[@MrScreenplay]

Great convo! I disagree that no part of DBZ is written well. I think the idea that complexity = quality is a modern notion that shortchanges older shows. I think Gohan's arc is extremely well written. DBZ's style is just more character-focused with simple plots which was the style of the time. I've been going back to watch older anime, and it's honestly refreshing to see a different style of storytelling that focuses more on emotional truths than building a (albeit cool) house of cards.

[@redcloudm5]

Complexity does not = quality is a great point and Demon Slayer is proof of that in today’s era, everyone loves it and the story is not complex at all

[@ndubuisiamadi]

@@redcloudm5 nah bro don't get shit mixed up. People only love demon slayer cus the animation is fucking beautiful

[@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy]

Yep. Simplicity can beat complexity depending on execution. And thats EXACTLY why demon sIayers story aint as ba d as ppI say. PpI love to say all it has is animation. No it has a story too. A simple story. Ive been arguing this for awhile and its so cool seeing others wake up to that.

[@emitrex]

Completely agree, is aot more complex and more depth, I would think so But that’s impressive not “better”.

[@person4585]

i feel like cell saga had above average writing, u valid on everything else

[@anthonyw.8103]

I don't think they give Akira Toriyama enough credit. up until the Buu saga, it was written really well with an extensive lore (power levels, techniques, alien races, transformations, etc... shit that fuels discussions to this day). it didn't focus on dark or political themes like AoT, but that doesn't mean it was bad or inferior.

[@joshawnthabeast]

Exactly that part of the video was getting me annoyed lol it seemed like they watch dbz but really haven’t paid attention to dbz. I love Rdcworld1 but when it came to the dbz section they we’re wrong about some things in my opinion.

[@Dee2Nce]

facts, thts something i learned to appreciate once i went back and watched in my adult hood.

[@amm2099]

They don’t give him credit cause a lot of people ain’t watch OG dragon ball, where majority of the cast played a role unlike in later DBZ (mostly everything after the frieza arc)

[@gaiden8039]

It's definitely inferior in depth and writing

[@christianz.25]

I agree with you bro, they really try to downplay DBZ, just because it’s not as complex they already deem it as not well written when it’s actually a well written simple story. And I think that plays into what John was saying about AOT not being as successful if it came out during the DBZ time because the anime landscape was not what it is today so the audience and interest for AOT would already be limited. That’s why I believe DBZ actually has the better story for that time to mainstream anime like it did.

[@tsleeziii4435]

I’ve just finished AOT and when I tell you it’s such a beautiful story… I waited so long to watch it because for some reason at first I thought it was slow and didn’t give it a chance but now it’s easily top 5 favorite if not top 3…

[@ren_lightfoot]

I'm with Dylan on the Hashira losing. There's very little way a Hashira would know to strike the nape of the neck (or be able to actually reach it). The Hashira could avoid all day, but if they can't end the fight all it takes is getting caught one time and chomped.

[@jonathanquinteros6496]

Nah rengoku could cut through all their heels in matter of seconds, immobilizing the titans and dropping them. That would allow him to reach their necks. He can also dodge any of their attacks. The only way titans win is by tiring him out but Im pretty sure Rengoku would figure out what hes gotta do to kill them if he sliced one up from head to toe. Im pretty sure he’d eventually see the effects a slice through the neck would have.

[@yasujirosanctum8883]

I mean, any proficient fighter worth their salt would aim for the head regardless as that would be the way to end a fight as quick as possible. The Demon Slayers have been hardwired to decapitate their opponents because of how they work, there's even demons of various sizes in Demon Slayer as shown in the earlier seasons so I think height is almost irrelevant. Outside of Colossal-esque Titans, the Hashiras Superhuman abilities that completely dwarf the Ackermans would be too much, though they'd certainly would have to get strategical for titans of Colossal size.

[@huh3719]

@@jonathanquinteros6496they don’t have 3d maneuver gear like Dylan was trying to say, they can’t zip around titans like that he’s running on the ground. Then he’d have to deal with colossals heat, warhammers real body is buried underground he’d have to figure that out, one colossal titan transformation would kill him instantly and infinite titans spawning from erens. Beast Titan throws shit tons of boulders. Armins also a genius, I’d say there’s hardly any chance for the hashira. Not to mention no we haven’t seen them be able to cut Diamond level like Annie’s neck is

[@thugger_wit_a_ak4444]

I think they would figure it out especially if the Titans guard their nape like Annie did

[@Patek.01]

@@huh3719 Um5 skin is harder than diamond and Muichiro no diffed him lmao and hes like the weakest hashira

[@BlackSpidey21]

Till this day, I’m astounded by all of y’all memories to remember all the details of these shows. It’s insane honestly😂

[@horushyperion76]

For Wano vs Dressrosa it really between "Would you rather suffer with your family or have your family be happy but forget your existence" Quite frankly if I was a dude with a wife and kids, I rather be forgotten than have them suffer in Wano.

[@zqShadowMonarch]

Exactly and marks wrong in thinking he’d get to suffer with his family bc any fit enough would be thrown into the factories to work until you die

[@bryte3795]

its a sefless decision to suffer for the ones you love if i had the decision to be a toy and my family can a have a decent quality of life and they not remember me vs my family slowing deteriorating in front of my eyes and i cant even cry abt it im forsure makin that sacrifice and becoming a toy 😅

[@samwilson4597]

only small portion of people turned into toys unlike wano where everyone were killed and become slaves

[@taahanajam8634]

​@@zqShadowMonarch Exactly, idk why people thinking you can suffer with your family when half of them gonna be enslaved and working in a factory and the other half are gonna die by starvation or orochi/kaido. Tama was literally an oprhan.

[@zqShadowMonarch]

@@taahanajam8634 I’m saying! Most of wano population is gone. What’s left is enslaved or starving to death or forced to work for nothing and fead smile fruits. And to work to please orochi

[@smashking4576]

1:02:20 John got it right there, AoT wouldn’t have done as well back in the 1999’s because people didn’t have the patience or the care for deep story telling like they do right now, so it would’ve seemed boring and confusing. Just like an all boxing anime like dragon ball with no changes to its story, wouldn’t do as great today as it did when it first came out

[@barondaniel]

Doesn’t mean its better than aot…not even comparable

[@NepBeard]

@@barondanielJohn’s argument was about how WELL the anime would have done, not about how good it is though. We like to believe that quality translates to success but there are tons of works that are amazing that very few people talk about

[@barondaniel]

@@NepBeard yeah i hear you..being popular pr successful dont make it good either Aot is way good to be compared to dragon ball imo,just not on the same level

[@sefatsilverlake3816]

Evangelion changed the industry and became a national powerhouse and it is ten times more slowly paced and confusing than AoT. That argument makes no sense.

[@Steezypooo]

Let it be known that the founder and eren were def holding back against armin and everyone they weren’t trying to kill them it was obvious when the war hammer instead of straight up killing the cart titan he held her on a stake for like 5min and the same with armin could’ve killed him too but chose to subdue him instead

[@anthonypadilla6627]

I think a big flaw with the Hashiras is the material given on their stamina. In both the demon-slayer manga and anime, they highlight several times where the demons are able to win a war of attrition (Rengoku as an example). I don't necessarily know if a Hashira could sustain the output to killing nine core titans. I personally believe they are capable of killing each one individually, but I don't know if they can last long enough to sustain.

[@Vhein]

Because the demons have immortality….oh and brains, smaller targets, and a more controlled manner of attack.

[@thecraze4853]

Like bro, everyone on the AoT side was arguing null points , tf was they bringing up the Jaw, Female, Armored,Beast and Warhammer for? They get negged by S2 Tanjiro imo, the real argument they shoulda brought up was the colossal and founding, who would literally out class and negg everyone from the DS verse, Muzan and Yoriichi included Like care to explain to me how Muzan or Yoriichi survive a fire ball that's 1000x hotter than the surface of the sun, and that reduces any form of matter down to it's subatomic particles, expands at 80% the speed of light, and covers a 5 mile radius

[@palooski227]

@@thecraze4853 im ngl you cookin so for the mere fact of wanting an explanation how do you think the hashiras would win or rather how would the titans lose?

[@Draxplayzit2]

rengoku didnt lose a bc of attrition he had an arm in his chest

[@thecraze4853]

@@palooski227 if we take the two top dogs out ( the founder and Colossal) The hashira would win because of their speed and their swords , if you remember Tanjiro in Season 1 cut a boulder in half and his sword didn't even have a scratch on it, S1 Tanjiro wasn't remotely close to even the weakest hashira, and the blades strength scales with with the strength and skill of it's user, so I can almost guarantee you their swords would go through Titan hardening, now if we assume they have no information on each other, that Titans might win purely from attrition, but if we assume otherwise, it's GG for the Attack, Beast, Female, Armored, Warhammer, Jaw and cart, they would simply run up to the nape cut them out and take off their head The Colossal like I said transforms with a Nuke, .....so I'm sorry if it's a fight even with Muzan, the MF would have to be over 5 miles away to not get Thanosed by the Nukes fireball, which doesn't make any sense For the founding...... it's the colossal, Plus all the other 7.....just on mad steroids, assuming the founding has full backing from Ymir ofc, it can spawn infinite Titans, hell it could spawn past colossal setting off multiple nukes, so no chance against that thing.

[@nehemiahkincey3048]

Impact is important but ultimately ruins the top 5 conversation. Shows like SAO have created entire genres and lanes in anime and unquestionably have huge impact, but are easily not even top 10 when you evaluate a show from standards like world building, plot, character development, and pacing.

[@willieda3rd]

I love anime arguments. One trait I feel is always missed from these convos be location. If you have two characters fight from different shows. The location plays a part. Naruto characters in other universes would get a downgrade because ninjutsu may not be apart of the universe. I can explain more but wanted to make the statement

[@fn1216]

We NEED even more back n forth I love this series more than anything

[@g7924]

I get John’s point about AOT MAYBE not being as popular if it came out earlier. It reminds me of horror movies and how now people like “elevated” horror as opposed to slasher films. That’s why a lot of media are cult classics-they find their audience later even though they were good when they came out.

[@r..e7045]

I ageee with John cuz all of the things and shows that pop out during that time, doesn’t fit attack on titan moto or style. Plus most big and successful anime’s 300+ eps and I think pacing and story would have change just a little bit of AOT as well as its animation during the 90’s

[@Mr10before9]

Slasher films are just BAD now, that's why they aren't liked as much. Halloween is still a classic that has aged well, Alien is still a classic that has aged well, Scream series is still going strongly. If Friday the 13th came out today, it would never have become the cult classic that it is...and that's true of majority of slasher flicks, but some told good enough stories to stand the test of time.

[@Dee2Nce]

i agree with John 100%...

[@vialize]

his point sounds so dumb. If aot came out back in the it would be still be the same. It wouldnt change the fact that aot had an amazing overall story and fitting ending. That whole argument bout not finding the audience target so stupid. Youre basically saying that if fma came out back in the day they wouldnt have the same impact and great story just cause its not shounen like dbz and other shit. Making it sound like people was only looking for shounen back then. No. DBZ is as big as it is today was because the story gripped us enough to watch everytime a new episode came out. and his whole argument basically saying aot not as gripping? WHAT?!? If anything. If aot came out and finished back in the day. it would MAYBE have more "impact" than dbz. Also. that point about elevated horror is irrelevant. That shit do not matter. It's literally just about how the story gets you hooked. Yall making it sound like you sit to watch a show because you already know what youre getting out of it. TF. Im pretty sure people sit to watch because they are looking for something new to watch. Not knowing what theyre getting out of it. That whole audience target do not matter. Especially if we talking anime. Dylan's points hit and I feel like John just arguing out of biased. And with his point he basically saying that if dbz came out now. It would be mid because people not looking for that kind of shit. Which is why he bringing in that whole "inspiration" argument saying that dbz better cause it was the first to come out. He literally just debunked his earlier argument with that "if aot came out back in the day" point. All I got from that argument was him yapping. and also, why he tryna bring in that "target audience" when they just talking about the anime as whole (story, character, pacing)... Whole argument about reaching the targeted audience actually just sounds extra stupid. With that point... Then Evagelion, akira, trigun, and or almost every anime that came out back then would be called mid with the story and everything they got because people was only looking for shows like DBZ?!?!??? what.

[@Mr10before9]

@@vialize exactly this...the great anime today would still be great, or even greater actually if they came out in the past, same can't be said though of some anime in the past if they came out today. DBZ would not compete with Kimetsu no Yaiba, Jujutsu Kaisen, Boku no Academia, Castlevania, Shingeki no Kyojin and others if it came out today...it came out at the perfect time for it to make its mark.

[@bacs3525]

i know whoever edited this had so much fun 😭 loveeeeeed this episode

[@Godwin5575]

You can‘t put nostalgia into the mix yet. Attack on Titan just finished but lemme tell you the way how we‘re gonna feel nostalgic when rewatching Aot in 35 years showing it our kids when they old enough finna hit HARD. So I agree with Dylan as well

[@oneeyeopennation5870]

AOT is top 5 in my opinion. Obviously it’s a subjective list but the storyline and world building is one of the best out of any show including anime’s. Let’s remember that AOT holds the 2,4, and 5 spot for most watch tv episodes of all time. The only show that is in front of them is breaking bad.

[@TRJ42]

It’s top-five for me too bro 😎 but I’ve been seeing a lot of hate for attack on Titan the treated like it’s trash now for some reason if not trash, they give it the death note treatment go to the reaction a Videos on the final episode it’s just people comments filled with hate.

[@geronimo1595]

@@TRJ42AOT tackles social issues in ways most anime don’t even get close, people will never agree on it regardless of whether it’s objectively bad or not.

[@davethawng1585]

⁠@@geronimo1595imo aot “social issues” narrative is really weak. If you compare it to a whole load of anime/manga it’s not really anything special

[@geronimo1595]

⁠@@davethawng1585AOT definitely leans on those issues more than your average battle shonen

[@benz9174]

cuz hype

[@dariusporter358]

The thing that pissed me off the most about Arya killing the night king is that he had nothing to do with her story. Think about it. Name one scene, before season 8, where someone even said the word night king or white walker and Arya was in the scene. Meanwhile after Jon befriended the wildings the night king became his main villain. Jon is the one who brought the people together to fight him. Even worse, it was Brans entire story. The night king should have either died fighting Jon or Bran should have did so 3 eyed raven bull to kill him. Aryas big moment should have been killing Cersei. She was the last one on Aryas list and it would have been a more satisfying death then Cersei dying from falling rocks. I’m not even gonna talk about Jamie and Dany.

[@will_nd6120]

They need you in the writers room fr

[@donchinago3566]

What are you yapping about ?

[@dariusporter358]

@@donchinago3566 Did u not watch the video. They were talking about how Game of Thrones ending sucked and I gave my two cents about why I felt it sucked as well.

[@battousaix4263]

Facts man. They threw away all that whole build up for so many of the MAIN characters. Wasted so much damn time setting they character arcs up, and it drags down so much of the show along with it unlike other stories with bad/mediocre endings

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

AoT and GoT gotta a lot of similarities tbh

[@raheimcumberbatch387]

love the guys, i wanna hear yall own personal top 5s and debate em, keep working!

[@nWheezy]

Please do more "what if" fights in naruto, im tryna see some arguments over some new wild fights such as Deepa (boruto) vs Zabuza or Gengetsu (not telling him how his ability works) vs Jiraiya (even if there's a clear winner, you get my point). i miss those specific episodes

[@xaviercolbert9876]

Vinland Saga has one of the best stories I’ve watched it really gave me that Aot vibes from characters ,plot , Fights. Thorfinn characters development of a true struggle of a Warrior trying to find Peace and Repent for his Sins Amazing so far

[@ned8124]

Winland Saga 🔥🔥

[@kurimiaisukurimu]

AOT and Vinland Saga are definitely top 5, or even 3, for me

[@antviper135]

​@@kurimiaisukurimuThey definitely in my top 10

[@fatedestroyer]

Vinland is underrated

[@triggatrey2112]

I can definitely see Vinland Saga being on my Top 5 of all time after it’s over.

[@N0no420]

Ngl I kinda agree with John. I feel like if Attack on Titan came out in the 80’s or 90’s it would become a cult classic like Berserk. The violence makes me think that it would limit the audience but who knows as OG dragon ball was actually quite bloody

[@r..e7045]

I ageee with John too cuz all of the things and shows that pop out during that time, doesn’t fit attack on titan moto or style. Plus most big and successful anime’s 300+ eps and I think pacing and story would have change just a little bit of AOT as well as its animation during the 90’s

[@greeneyegamerguy6007]

Ppl really missed out on OG Dragonball and dbz. Super is written like fan fiction and you can’t watch dbz the way it was originally animated anymore.

[@TheRulersBack18]

@@greeneyegamerguy6007 this is super valid. it's crazy how much they fucked over goku's character in particular, but super was literally just one big ass nostalgia trip to make more money. more transformations! repeat the iconic moments from dbz! just trash. not even gonna get into how stupid every character looks now (just look at the freaking hair!)

[@greeneyegamerguy6007]

Yea people get mad but its really just Boruto for DBZ. People blame the shows for being mid but instead of just letting things end theyre like ok but how much money to bring it back and then get mad when its not the same tier of the original. Sure you get some cool scenes and ideas but to think the story is gonna hold up to the passion of the orginals is honestly an unfair comparison@@TheRulersBack18

[@trethephenom1921]

This the most John every made since to me👏🏾

[@nezzymarley]

The Game of Thrones analogy so accurate bruh like how u mess dat up 😭

[@Dxspair1]

Leland speaking facts. "I'd rather struggle with my family then be out there by myself" Real Talk!

[@zqShadowMonarch]

But u wouldn’t struggle with your family bc any men fit enough would be taken and put to work in the factories until you die.

[@Dxspair1]

@@zqShadowMonarch You got me with that one, I woulda been sent to the factories quick. That life would suck. But in the general aspect the line is facts tho.

[@samwilson4597]

in wano you'll be working in a factory with no break until u die, there's no spending time with family lol

[@michaelpeppers5478]

So you wanna hoe your whole family Vs just taking the Dolo L 😂

[@JACQUEZJOHNSON23]

​@@zqShadowMonarchhell no u just slaving

[@devinjasmin8029]

Dylan acting like Ymir on Reiner’s back will forever be in my head 😂

[@gositachi8438]

I love all of dragon ball… and I could confidently say in terms of Z from the Saiyan Saga to frieza is very solid story wise, and the android/cell saga to a lesser degree is solid as well. Not to mention the new least(most) underrated fight in DB history Piccolo vs 17. Writing been solid, then they wouldn’t let toriyama end the show

[@dashaunmckenzie5357]

Wanting to watch this motivated me to finish AOT this week😂. Needed to finish so I could see what y’all niggas om

[@Mendez_Trucker]

Respect Dylan standing on his opinion that people only put DBZ in their all time Top 5 because of nostalgia, but let's be clear without Dragonball modern anime doesn't exist as it does today. Its impact alone solidifies it's legacy as an all time Top 5 anime.

[@thetruesquad5059]

Dylan has BEEN hating bro There was a whole 15 mins on stream of him saying dbz is carried by nostalgia not understanding it was written that way cuz of when it came out, now the media is different and there is a lot more to work off of, like bruh 🤦

[@AmonDarkness]

People love to say just off nostalgia, me being a fan of so much anime I love dbz because of the story, the characters , and how much characters like Vegeta and Piccolo have grown since Dragon Ball and Z to now Super.

[@amarigibson9447]

@@thetruesquad5059 take the time period argument out because their were better mangas written than dragon ball z around that time

[@Drowzynxtdoor]

@@thetruesquad5059not hating it's facts like it's just hard to compare because as a generation we upgrade so you can't really compare as ur dragon ball z came out now with peoples attention span ... I have my life on majority not making pass season 2 they fought for episodessss with Frieza

[@iMortao]

If it wasn't dragon ball would be another , you got many old ass shounens out there that did good , Japan doesn't lack genius people when it comes to writing manga.

[@nobchopper9728]

Attack on Titan IMO is the only anime to supersede the genre and reach out to other audiences. It’s a legendary anime that will be the staple for other anime to inspire to be in terms of everything. It will talked about for decades to come. OST Animation Story Characters Twists Messages Mappa & WIT & Iseyama created something truly special.

[@fatedestroyer]

Preach.

[@skeletoncrew6500]

How did it supersede the genre and what genre would it be anyways (unless you mean anime then you’re using supersede wrong). Both of those are genuine questions

[@randalthekidd7006]

it’s barely even being talked about now, it literally is GOT again. shit was hype, ending was ass, people moved on

[@AreYouFNQRAZII]

Bro it’s a lot of good anime, just ain’t get the same attention fr

[@nobchopper9728]

@@AreYouFNQRAZIIobviously there’s good anime out there, but 99% don’t do or reach the peaks of attack on Titan. That’s why attack on Titan is legendary and other “good anime” that aren’t getting the same “attention”…

[@beckmangaming7860]

To keep it real dbz set the tone amd was the introduction to anime for a lot of people my age group (I'm 33) so dbz is my number 1 not because of the writing or characters but because it's a gateway. So a lot of us don't know about jjk, aoa, demon slayer ect without dbz.

[@Mick-nd1tp]

Finally a back and forth🎉🔥🔥

[@bobjoe4847]

Dragonball has great writing it’s not a complex story but it’s written phenomenally

[@KonEl17]

Agreed especially for Toriyama literally writing off cuff! Lol

[@michaeledoigiawerie4594]

OG DB, I agree. But everything after that is just an action flick tbh

[@zprimus00]

They forgot to mention most of the toys in Dressrosa were forced into slave labor and had no control over their bodies. And they can still feel fatigue and their constant whoopings

[@tristenwhite3070]

omg

[@E5_Mayor]

20years though???

[@ball8761]

@@E5_MayorI’m saying bruh

[@SSJ98k]

For me it all comes down to if and how long it takes for the hashira to figure out the nape situation and how they would get up to slice it with no edm gear, the jaw titan could probably be the only one to keep up speed wise but if they can keep the nape away long enough titans got it imo just off group effort and stamina

[@jadencandelario7880]

I’m sure the Hashiras should already know it’s the neck nape area, it’s just another day in the office.

[@PolrFlar3]

@@jadencandelario7880 hashira move add the speed of sound, its in the databooks lol

[@jadencandelario7880]

@@PolrFlar3 the speed of sound blitzes anything the titans move at.

[@PolrFlar3]

@@jadencandelario7880 exactly, so i dont know why these mfs think a hashira wouldnt pack up a few titans

[@yackson55]

Man you guys have such good takes, I completely respect basing your top series off of how much they really mean to you and other aspects besides storytelling. For me personally, I value story and characters the most, Attack on Titan is the greatest of all time for me and Eren Jeager has cemented as the greatest character oat. Before this ending my top 1 was hxh, which, if it comes back in full swing and finishes nicely it will absolutely be my top 1 again, but I had to give it up bc this ending is just fucking amazing.

[@DizzyRaps1]

I love da guyz✊🏽 But they be having ass takes fr💯😂 Especially if you know your stuff.

[@yackson55]

@@DizzyRaps1 nah ik bro but for this vid i was lowkey surprised that they weren’t just like nah aot sucks one piece dbz on top fuck storylines type shit.

[@Snaggywon]

Endurance couldn't be a factor to worry about considering that all Hashira use concentration breathing techniques.

[@humanoidfrog4645]

it should e since they die from burns before getting to the top of even 1 colossal titan

[@Snaggywon]

@@humanoidfrog4645 armin took on Bertolt for a while before he scorched completely, surely a Hashira trained to fight demons with far greater abilities could within the heat.

[@humanoidfrog4645]

@@Snaggywon hashira are regular humans using techniques to enhance their muscles. At the end of the day they're still normal people. One sword through the body and the mist hashira instantly died. Levi has a bigger chance of beating THE 9 titans (intelligence, skills and all) than most of the hashira do. I finished both demon slayer and aot and the hashira would be wiped if they didn't fight the last 4 strongest demons one by one. EXPERTISE is the most important skill in aot and that's why new scouts died easily and later in their carrier they barely die.

[@Snaggywon]

@@humanoidfrog4645 Hashira would die in the same way Levi would because ofc are humans there’s no argument there but clearly those in demon slayer are far more durable and could bang toe to toe with a few (if not all) of the titans. And don’t act like Hashira aren’t intelligent enough to deal with demons that have been killing for millennia. Lastly let’s not forget majority of the titans understands how ODM gears work and can plan for it if they’re working together. Fighting a Hashira with no prior knowledge that uses several abilities that enhances their swordsmanship should not be overlooked imo.

[@humanoidfrog4645]

@@Snaggywon hashira are not killing titans from the ground up without knowing what the titans are. Hashira usually die very young and gang up on demons to beat them. 4-5 hashira is equal to upper moon 1 so that says enough about their power level. Hashira die to fire especially a nuke from armin

[@draculemihawk8844]

Dragon Ball wouldn't have stood out as much if it came out today but it'd be the same for AOT if it came out back in the 80s/90s when dark and gritty anime were the norm. It also helped AOT that mecha genre fell off because everything it does, shows like Gundam, Evangelion Code Geass, and Gurren Lagann did first.

[@jaccetaylor3672]

Dressrosa got tournaments going on, a good economy, and a good living situation. On the chance you do get turned into a toy you will be forgotten but your family still gets to live, you got a personality, and eventually you get turnt back with them remembering you

[@answering248]

I haven’t watched one piece beyond the live action but if you eventually get turned back being remembered then I don’t think it’s even close maybe if your family moves on or passes away before you turn back I can see it being an issue. Definitely curious on watching it now though.

[@jaccetaylor3672]

@@answering248 first off be careful with dressrosa it drags on a lot so be careful second you do get turned back and everyone remembers you one character has his daughter remember him and he even watched over his daughter as a toy it’s not close at all dressrosa is much better

[@LeelosAdventure]

Bro this channel makes me laugh so hard

[@michaelanyanwu939]

Dragon ball z and attack on Titan are two objectively different anime that are looking to accomplish different things one story is about a savior that comes through despite all odds while the other is about people looking for a savior in the wrong person which in turn fucks them over one is allowed to be more simpler due to the premise but dragon ball z story and world building isn’t close to being as bad as you guys were saying in the video. The world of dragon ball is more expansive and complex as opposed to attack on Titan where you only saw a handful of races and only explore two countries. Attack on Titan had a more in depth story because it was a more grounded series while dragon ball z is fantasy so they are allowed to do whatever they want however because toriyama wrote his characters so well along with creating a great power system the story is still entertaining and the manga actually is developing into a great story. Also impact is important considering the fact almost all current anime draw inspiration from dbz so that means dbz did something right. Dbz is top five because it is a great show point blank period

[@Scarfacego24]

Thank you bruh I couldn’t get it out and attack on titan has impact with the transformation that’s it idc maybe 3d gear and swords

[@rockytribouillier9028]

Facts!!! Preaching my fellow universe 7 warrior 💪💯

[@wel0219]

If we’re talking most influential than Dbz should be there but we’re talking greatest all time. I feel impact shouldn’t play a factor because that to me is a lazy reason that overshadows shows that hit all the beats of a truly amazing show. I feel dbz has better characters truly like Vegeta, Piccolo, teen Gohan, future Trunks , Dbz Goku. But other than that, it can be controversial on whether story plots are good or if it’s paced well. Attack on Titans story can be nitpicked for mistakes but all the story beats are there from the very beginning and everything comes full circle from the very first episode. I really admire Isayama because he thought out the show completely and every moment is necessary in each episode , no filler really . If we’re comparing the two shows against each other, it should be AoT without a doubt objectively , but if we look at it emotionally , then I can understand completely why ppl would say DBZ. But in a true top five list, saying that impact is a factor is lazy reasoning for why dbz should be there. It can be up there, but not with that explanation.

[@michaelanyanwu939]

@@wel0219 ok but if you read my explanation impact wasn’t my only reasoning it was just my last reason lol

[@TRJ42]

Dbz and Aot are gonna be in my top 5 I can admit, is nostalgia bias on z but AOT I truly think it’s the top 5 anime

[@jjbailey6430]

Dylan and Mark giving Code Geass it’s flowers. You love to see it. Goated show.

[@jaylen9701]

dillon & john’s argument had to be the best one in back in forth history

[@thephalange8630]

Loved AOT endning! Genius!

[@traviscue2099]

AoT would be my all time favorite series, something I can watch over and over again. There's no filler/no unfinished plot points/characters I love/and a super bleak and bitter sweet tone throughout it all. I've loved series such as Breaking Bad/The Boys/Sopranos/Game of Thrones/House of The Dragon/Avatar ect ect alongside a few popular animes.. But nothing has made me hold my mouth open for an entire episode/jump out of my seat/hold my hands up and get super emotional like AoT does.. This entire series just flows, every scene has meaning towards character growth or the story at hand. And it ended just perfectly, everything that was laid out before through various seasons all comes together and its just a masterpiece.

[@cdh6339]

The ending was perfect? Take the Rose tinted glasses off.

[@traviscue2099]

@@cdh6339 it's perfect for the story it's telling 100%. To a point where I'd give it a 10/10 for the series as a whole. I'm fully satisfied with it.. I don't get that with most series. Can you nit pick super minor details? Sure.. but you can in every piece of media.

[@zarc1145]

​@@traviscue2099i don't think 20 different plot holes that make the story retarded can be called minor details

[@MusicWorldVNT]

@@cdh6339it is perfect, 10/10. Eren did what he wanted to save his love ones and keep peace for hundreds of years to come. The rumbling was the only way. Just like Doctor Strange seeing all possibilities, there was only 1 outcome and that’s what we saw. It’s a realistic ending like Isayama say. Masterpiece

[@MusicWorldVNT]

@@traviscue2099agreed, facts, truth.

[@dewdadream]

Can we all agree that the ODM gear made them fast to get from point A to point B. A hashira could face the nine titans cuz they aren't fast. But lets not act like them ODM gears wasn't a necessity for them to fight. Edit: If Momonosuke and the Nine Kazuki had to time travel 20 years into the future to develop a plan to raid Kaido and take back their country, i think Wano had it worst.

[@HigherNobility]

Bro Armin turn into his titan once and nukes everyone 🤔 Eren can control everyone, I saw 1 hashira gets packed ngl

[@dewdadream]

@@HigherNobility "Could" never said they had one chance at all💀

[@doom7607]

@@dewdadream odm gear is different from just speed it lets them travel in any direction mid travel e.g. if rengoku jumps in a straight line he cant turn right instantly while keeping all momentum

[@demetersyx3042]

​@@HigherNobilityhow weak do you think a hashira is? I don't like demon slayer but the fact these 2 things were being compared was crazy...

[@dewdadream]

@@doom7607 i agree wit you but it was still a necessity for them to fight the titans

[@TrillTutorials]

I love the demon slayer vs aot question because I can honestly see it going either ways. Can I imagine a hashira beating a titan? Yes. Can I see a titan beating a hashira? Yeah. Honestly, I feel like it depends on so many things and so many factors that I’m not even on one side and love seeing the different pouts get bought up on both sides 😭 I do think that’s it’s crazy for ONE of them to go up against 9 titans because realistically nobody going up against titans by themselves ESPECIALLY not one of the 9. Most people in demon slayer aren’t fighting 1 v 1s (or at least not always willingly from what I’ve seen in the anime. Im not a manga reader!) But I also think a Hashira who has to chop demon head off for a living already has enough experience of getting through tough skin like that. But getting up there and cutting 9 of them off? Idkkkk. Because even if they get through war hammer armor, they have to get through armored titan, and Annie covering up her neck. And don’t forget Armin blowing tf up. Idk how much stamina they would have for that. I’m not saying it’s NOT possible, but as for the question of 1 v 9, it seems hard. I think an evenly matched battle would give them a run for their money tho fs (but I can still see either way)

[@PolrFlar3]

nah they forgot how rengoku blitzed on the train tracks in season 2, hashiras move faster than the speed of sound, they left it out in the debate

[@Danenown]

Dragon ball and Jjk argument was really most influential vs highest quality The light bulb example was actually great Edison set it off but any bulb today is better than what we had In a test of quality all that matters is what can be objectively measured i.e. plot, characters, character depth/development, themes, scores, etc.

[@ZeniyaSimone]

I think influence (how a show/film affected other anime and the genre) AND impact (how it resonated emotionally) should be judged alongside foundational factors like story, worldbuilding, characters, and animation. That way, classic anime aren’t disregarded because of the genre’s natural progression and new anime can still assert themselves as GOATs as well. Regardless of your top five, it’s just great to love anime and share that with other people. What a time to be an anime fan!

[@Stunt877]

No it shouldn’t being first should not disregard other factors.

[@ZeniyaSimone]

@@Stunt877 Yeah, I’m saying people should consider a combination of factors instead of just one. That way, it’s more balanced. Also, I wouldn’t say being first guarantees influence. A show could’ve come before and had no influence on what came later. And both new and older anime can have a huge impact on people.

[@Footballazz]

I 100% agree with your take. I get the points Dylan was making…but every point he made to detract from DBZ, you can say the same about Naruto yet that was still above AoT on his list. Naruto has way too many flaws to be in a top 5 if you’re being critical and ignoring nostalgia and impact. And I’m not just talking about filler. I could say the same about One Piece probably but I’ll leave that alone since I haven’t seen it. For me, with Nostalgia and Impact and all of that involved it goes 1. DBZ 2. Gundam Wing 3. Attack on Titan/FMA brotherhood (I honestly can’t separate them) 4. Fate Zero 5. Hunter x Hunter/Samurai Champloo (I can’t separate these either) If we ignoring Nostalgia and shit 1. Attack on Titan 2. FMA Brotherhood 3. Fate Zero 4. Hunter x Hunter/Samurai Champloo 5. Cyberpunk: Edgerunners The fifth spot could’ve really went to a bunch of shows tbh. Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Darker than Black S1, Black Lagoon, Code Geass and Vinland Saga. Cyberpunk probably got some recency bias going for it tbh but oh well. I ain’t seen Stein’s Gate, Baccano or Monster yet but they could probably be up there too once I watch them based on what I heard

[@e30orbeer30]

I feel up until new era-2010s, there was an emphasis on weekly serialized manga release and managaka’s really had to frame and pace the story alongside this sales method to ensure the anime would pick up and flow accordingly. Nowadays with anime only streaming services people consume anime at a much quicker pace and sometimes disregard the manga entirely. Newer series are condensed with less fluff as they don’t need to survive on the old sales model as series like DB/DBZ did. Side-note: I nominate Neon Genesis for old school anime impactful and well written

[@Footballazz]

Well said. That’s a really good point. DBZ had to survive weekly as a show so naturally they needed to drag things out a bit more. I also get the points Dylan was making…but every point he made to detract from DBZ, you can say the same about Naruto yet he still had Naruto above AoT somehow. Naruto has way too many flaws to be in a top 5 if you’re being critical and ignoring nostalgia and impact. And I’m not just talking about filler. I could say the same about One Piece probably but I’ll leave that alone since I haven’t seen it. For me, with Nostalgia and Impact and all of that involved it goes 1. DBZ 2. Gundam Wing 3. Attack on Titan/FMA brotherhood (I honestly can’t separate them) 4. Fate Zero 5. Hunter x Hunter/Samurai Champloo (I can’t separate these either) If we ignoring Nostalgia and shit 1. Attack on Titan 2. FMA Brotherhood 3. Fate Zero 4. Hunter x Hunter/Samurai Champloo 5. Cyberpunk: Edgerunners The fifth spot could’ve really went to a bunch of shows tbh. Ghost in the Shell: SAC, Darker than Black S1, Black Lagoon, Code Geass, NGE (original or Rebuild movies), and Vinland Saga. Cyberpunk probably got some recency bias going for it tbh but oh well. I ain’t seen Stein’s Gate, Baccano or Monster yet but they could probably be up there too once I watch them based on what I heard. I would also throw Ghost in the shell along side NGE for the point u made. Well written, probably one of the greatest animation spectacles when you consider the time it came out…and the Impact, while it wasn’t as large as DBZ, it still had a massive impact on the Sci-fi/futuristic/cyberpunk genre in all of media, not just anime. The fuckin matrix took inspiration from Ghost in the Shell. That hoe inspired a lot of shit.

[@jubrix2good959]

For that argument of rengoku and demons slayer covering distance, zenitsu was flying around entertainment district fighting , also they could use the example of rengoku running across an insane distance in minutes in his special , when he ran on train tracks

[@TedtheGrouch]

I think a big component that Jon and Dylan were missing in their argument was target audience. DBZ was/is tailored to children and AOT is for more mature audiences. Both would do well either in the past or today within their demographic

[@TedtheGrouch]

And to Jon's point, anime was a niche commodity in the global market. Adults in the US were not messing with anime like we do now. It's only big today because the generation that watched anime (tailored to kids) grew up. Dbz pokemon digimon yugioh sailormoon etc.

[@TRUESHADOWD]

Happy to see how far yall come frfr keep goin dont stop cant wait for the manga to turn into a real show

[@Heavenlydrag]

I believe the demographic in 1980s, 90s would have been different. While the writing would have been good animes like Ghost in the shell, Kite, Blue Gender, Akira, Bubble Gum Crisis, Guyver, and Gundam were being put out. The market was saturated with war themes, giant battles, and dark themes. I think Attack on Titan would have found it hard to differentiate itself during that time. Also, isn't one of the reasons attack on Titans became so popular in the west was due to its initial comparison to the Walking Dead (I may be wrong on this). The time AOT and DBZ came out matters. If Dragonball came out today, it wouldn't be the dragon ball of 1980s but a completely different story to match the current standard of writing.

[@fattygamer94]

I think back to 2013 when attack on Titan came out and the kind of like touching portion genres that it would fit into would be Mecha, zombie-ish, thriller, survival anime. And you're absolutely right compared to animes from the '80s and '90s, there were a lot darker more mature animes that were really popular. But one thing I will say is if DBZ never came out animes these days would have gone in a different direction in terms of popularity. The martial arts, the fight scenes, moving soo fast you can't see them, the power ups, the transformers, the slight comedic relief, the "found family" values. Dragon Ball did a lot for anime's.

[@Heavenlydrag]

​@fattygamer94 Absolutely agree. Actually, the Big 3 wouldn't exist. Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach were influenced in some way by either DB or Akira Toriyama himself.

[@r..e7045]

I ageee with John cuz if AOT came out in 90/80s I don’t think would have been as known or even impactful as Dragoo ball. Because all of the things and shows that pop out during that time, doesn’t fit attack on titan moto or style. Plus most big and successful anime’s wax 300+ eps and I think pacing and story would have change just a little bit of AOT as well as its animation during the 90’s

[@JACQUEZJOHNSON23]

Y'all keep saying but super come out in modern time so no

[@richsport]

Agreed the formats and the direction of anime at that time were totally different would have been harder to stand out in that mix. DBZ created their mix and from that they spawned a whole genre. AOT is a Top 10 but I can’t say top 5 I’m a long time anime watcher and I’m not discrediting pass work for current work.

[@227060]

Ultimately, I think when it comes to DBZ vs AoT its just not fair to compare the two. They were made at different points in time, with different technology available, different production realities* and most importantly different genres. Yes, they are both shonen and both have action, but DBZ's action is mainly 1v1 martial arts stuff whereas AoT has way more group battles or war manoeuvres. Its like comparing a Bruce Lee movie to Lord of the Rings. They are not trying to be the same thing. Similarly, AoT isnt mainly about the action. Its about the lore, world building, mysteries, politics and suspense over who is lying and so on. That takes up huge chunks of the show whereas DBZ was deliberately written *around* the 1v1 fights. Everything was feeding into or setting up those fights. So I just don't think it makes sense to compare them blunt force. They have to ve put into the context of when they were made and what genres or subgenres they are trying to fit into *AoT being seasonal meant no filler, DBZ required filler as it ran weekly for over 6 years

[@timothymcmiller3333]

Awesome back and forth

[@dtucker285]

Mark & John are VASTLY overrating the speed scale in Demon Slayer. All of the effects are just to show how powerful they are to regular humans; they're not meant to be taken literally. Hashiras are basically the peak of human performance, barely superhuman. They're like Captain America or Iron Fist. They could kill some pure titans, but the nine titans together would wreck they shit.

[@babufits1584]

AoT will stand the test of time. Unique, engaging story, memorable as hell characters and damn near every one of them MATTERED to the story progression... and JJK shaping up to be top 5 for sure.

[@riley4872]

Agreed but I don’t think it’s top 5 tho

[@retro7369]

@@riley4872what’s ur top 5

[@gotenj7733]

@@riley4872 Whats yours?

[@skynight4540]

JJK flopped hard after Shibuya

[@icelestine178]

​@@skynight4540You are bugging to say it "flopped hard" after shibuya. The most you can say is its aight or that you just dont like it. Jjk is still good after shibuya.

[@Godwin5575]

I don‘t think Hashira‘s could transfer their speed that comes through their breathing onto the ODM gear. But that wouldn‘t be needed, toe to toe their speed would easily chop up the titans and if they have incel on how to kill them it‘s easily a wrap. Yes Armin transformation would definetly nuke them away, yet remember Rengoku stopped a WHOLE TRAIN FROM DERAILING BY USING HIS TECHNIQUES AND STILL THREW HANDS WITH AKAZA AFTERWARDS.

[@yusukeurameshi7744]

He def didn't stop the train from derailing cuz that still happened but he did lessen the impact of said derailing somehow by using some of his breathing techniques so that there wouldn't be any casualties.

[@Godwin5575]

That's exactly what I meant like this nigga lessens the impact of a DERAILING TRAIN THAT WENT FULL SPEED BY HIMSELF so what do you think would he do up against them titans especially if he has intel on how to kill them and what their attacks are@@yusukeurameshi7744

[@markkilla781]

The armored and colossal titan reveal is the greatest transformation of all time

[@kurimiaisukurimu]

Put some respect on Jean and Conny tho, they were among the top of their class for a reason, their ability with the ODM gear was unmatched.

[@darylvondutch6096]

And it still doesn’t compare to a hashira movement😂 they’re humans

[@jblakk6768]

And it makes sense for Jean to be with Mikasa. It was forshadowed in his character intro. He was crushing on Mikasa. And kept fixating on her and admitedly jealous of eren. Its on the page. It made sense.

[@YALLDONTNEEDTOKNOW]

​@@jblakk6768it makes sense but nobody actually wanted them to be together. mikasa do not love him 🤣 she still hung up on eren 10 years later.

[@emmarod8746]

@@YALLDONTNEEDTOKNOWThat’s like saying you can’t miss and love your dead wife and still be able to love your current wife. It literally happens all the time in real life. It’s perfectly fine that she can miss Eren and love her husband Jean at the same time.

[@samwilson4597]

all of them were dead if falco and OGs didn't save them

[@K1NG931]

John probably has the best understanding of ranking. Black and white movies are being ranked as greatest of all time still to this day and they're writing was not where it is today in some places.

[@bofi1280]

I'd actually argue writing in movies has gotten worse compared to back then.

[@K1NG931]

@@bofi1280 absolutely

[@RageHazzardous]

The Demon with the drums on his body was sending attacks at the speed of sound. TANJIRO saw, reacted to and dodged that. If Tanjiro is hypersonic a Hashira wipes the 9 titan shifters.

[@trevorarmstrong6641]

You silly eh 😂

[@zachbearman]

Trying to follow a John explanation has to come toe to toe with like the greatest human feats ever performed. Man is all over the place.

[@joshawnthabeast]

Dbz has a story to it, no it’s not complex but to sit there and say there were no plot is crazy to me. It was very consistent. Yeah the the android and buu saga has its up and downs but the story is consistent. People be sleeping on akira.

[@ottohenriquez9374]

Claymore came out in 2007, but Claymore is pretty much "90s AoT" and it didn't take off after Season1. You read the manga and see it is a severely underrated series, and on par with AoT in multiple aspects. The general interest isnt ever consistent. People liked different things across different points in time.

[@dedricktonsing2007]

Yeah titans might actually do better than i orginally thought. All 9 would be crazy for 1 hashira and i think only one of them even survives the whole story. One of the reasons i like demon slayer is cause they dont make your heros too op and there are real stakes.

[@dedricktonsing2007]

Depends on the hashira fr. I actually think zenitsu or inosuke would do well.

[@skoobysnax3831]

Older animes with great stories for me when I was comin up Gundam wing Cowboy bebop Wolfs rain Samurai Champloo Older than that... ninja scroll but that's all I've seen Older than those 4 I mentioned.

[@jamesross29]

I see y’all’s point about Dragon Ball, but overall it’s still a well written series. It might not have the level of writing of Attack on Titan, but it still has a good story, great characters, all-time moments and great fights

[@TakaGangLeader]

I honestly think that last question is impossible to answer because every person goes into watching an anime looking for different things because if u want a good story u can go for shows like aot,monster,code geass etc but if u go into a show looking for fights and transformation you will obviously like dbz, bleach, naruto and shows like that more.

[@r..e7045]

It’s definitely a bias question cause anybody can say their personal fav anime but I think dragonball as whole is just different on a level even without nostalgia really

[@karlomolnar2780]

​@@r..e7045I know it's your opinion but come on now. You cannot rewatch dbz today and say it is amazing without nostalgia. Or maybe, I am just hating. I don't even know anymore

[@qriz5]

@@r..e7045and you are buggin, if you put someone fresh on to anime and have them watch both, 10/10 people over the age of like 13 going to rate AoT way higher

[@r..e7045]

@@qriz5 no there not that’s just you be basis like I just stated that’s ur opinion there’s some of anime’s that better then AOT and there’s plenty that are not. The question literally revolves around favoritism’s of YOuR personal top 5😂which for me AOT is 6 or 7 on my list

[@bofi1280]

@@qriz5 That's just your opinion. None of us can know for sure.

[@atg_ro]

I don’t think people were expecting a happy ending, I think they were expecting an ending that was completely unhappy. Like eren is successful in his efforts type of ending

[@nnightkingj]

Thats technically still happy though unhappy is everybody losing and dying

[@EntrEsprit]

yeah, i think a good amount of fans hated the ending because they thought this long arc since the rumbling was building to something different more unexpected than what has happened (especially considering a lot of them were on Eren's side), but if you really think about it that was one of the only logical ways to wrap it up

[@santokun5835]

Only edgelords, Eh shippers and literal na*s (hello, Floch) wanted that ending lol

[@Eibemig]

@@nnightkingj exactly what happened xD

[@rico2244]

@36:30 FACTS! And I need us as anime fans to understand you can have favs and still understand that the narrative may be weaker than another. I love Naruto with all my heart so it’s always going to be number 1 for me, but narratively, AoT had eaten up the Big 3 and every other manga/anime I knew by the second season and that’s just being real. It literally broke several rules of shounen and did it masterfully. They foreshadowed several huge moments almost 10 years in advance and it actually works. They didn’t hit the ground like Black Clover, JJK, MHA and others that took the OG formula and improvised (and I enjoy all of these but I’m keeping it a stack). AoT said “fuck this shounen playbook, I’m putting y’all on some new shit”. AoT has already changed the tone of some newer anime but watch, in 10 years, we will see how big the impact was. That said, I think the Big 3 and DBZ have their place for a reason - tho. Their characters and the love they made us have for them are still unrivaled.

[@Rdclaughter]

Haven’t watched one piece in awhile, but i think these are correct if my memory serves right -u don’t randomly get turned into a toy in dressrosa it’s usually done if you disobey -after you’re reverted back to human everyone gets their memories of you back, but in wano after you eat the smile fruit you can’t go back

[@BioYuGi]

Yeah and one of the worst drawbacks of Sugar's power is even SHE forgets the people she's turned into toys, so if she does it to an ally, she won't even remember to undo it.

[@Rdclaughter]

@@BioYuGi I didn’t even think about it affecting her memory too

[@emmanuelmaggit4760]

Yea but only some of the population had a possibility of being affected in wano most of the population was living lavishly. Also don’t forget you had a chance of getting your child sent to punk hazard to be experimented on