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400mm F/2.8 Vs. 600mm F/4 - Which Is BEST For Wildlife And Bird Photography?

  Рет қаралды 40,173

Steve Perry

Steve Perry

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 285
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
Quick note on the subject distance math to clear up confusion, In the video, I state that you need to be 1.5X closer to the subject for the same framing with the 400mm. So, if you are 60 feet away with the 600mm, you would need to be at 40 feet with the 400mm for the same framing. (60 / 1.5 = 40). However, you can also think of it as being 1/3rd farther back, since 20 feet is one third of 60. The math works either way.
@Richard-i9t2k
@Richard-i9t2k 8 күн бұрын
3/2 is 2/3 inverted, goes for all fractions, very useful in everyday math
@kilik92
@kilik92 6 күн бұрын
Thank you for sharing your incredible knowledge! This type of video must have taken a lot of time. Happy new year Steve!
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 6 күн бұрын
Thanks so much!
@Sooch900
@Sooch900 8 күн бұрын
Man you’re the best! Love this type of content and info! Super useful and informative! Can’t thank you enough
@gordonnorman8259
@gordonnorman8259 8 күн бұрын
Steve: Unquestionably, the definitive treatise on this topic I have seen anywhere - very nice job!
@inkheart124
@inkheart124 8 күн бұрын
Yes, what a superb job comparing these focal lengths, much appreciated!
@prolarus
@prolarus 21 сағат бұрын
The first minute of this video is so reassuring. #1 staring point: focal length. You’ll occasionally wish for the other, and there is no perfect lens for ALL situations. Great video, as always.
@ME2K23
@ME2K23 8 күн бұрын
4:45 this is why I chose a 500mm F4. Still getting 700mm with the 1.4x tc if needed. It's also smaller et lighter than a 600mm + with today's high Megapixels camera, cropping in less an issue than it once was. If I ever need addition reach, I can still go with th 2x tc and / or my apsc camera.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
I WISH they would make one foe the Z series - it's the perfect in-between lens. I keep hoping for maybe a 200-500 F/4 zoom, with built-in TC :) Talk about the perfect wildlife lens!
@Jessehermansonphoto
@Jessehermansonphoto 8 күн бұрын
@@backcountrygallery That would be Incredible
@codebunnies
@codebunnies 8 күн бұрын
@@backcountrygallery I keep waiting for that lens too. The Canon 200-400 f/4.0 TC was my favourite wildlife lens, having a Nikon 180-500 f/4.0 TC would be the one lens to rule them all expect for shore birds where I use the 800mm PF (often with the 1.4X TC). The 400 f/2.8 TC is a close second. The 600 f/4.0 TC really limited me when I had it since the animals where all too often far too close for it to focus on them.
@garyswergold4096
@garyswergold4096 4 күн бұрын
Yes! I bought the 500 f4 exactly for that reason. I’ve had great results with the 1.4x TC and even with the 1.7x TC.
@michaeljohannsen4872
@michaeljohannsen4872 6 күн бұрын
Dear Steve, your Videos and Channel are an invaluable wealth of knowledge, sprinkled with fantastic photos, and a charismatic, straight forward personality. Thank you so much! Lots of love from Austria!
@chantaljacques7664
@chantaljacques7664 5 күн бұрын
The most comprehensive and useful review I have seen on the subject! Thanks Steve!
@m.maclean8911
@m.maclean8911 8 күн бұрын
The Z 800mm is small and light and a fraction of the cost. It fits in a carry on bag as well. When shooting long I take 2 lenses (& TCs) … the Z 100-400mm and the Z 800mm . This gives me 100-1,600mm all handhold-able.
@user-vj9qw6ok1b
@user-vj9qw6ok1b 8 күн бұрын
Yes, but he's talking about big glass, not about the many choices available.
@TwickersMandM
@TwickersMandM 8 күн бұрын
I have the same two lenses, and honestly they cover my needs, but I can’t help lusting after the two top-tier lenses. Simply to be able to say ‘I have the best’?!
@m.maclean8911
@m.maclean8911 8 күн бұрын
@@user-vj9qw6ok1b most people would consider 800mm big glass …
@robguyatt9602
@robguyatt9602 8 күн бұрын
I have the same. On trips I take the whole kit but almost never use anything other than the 800.
@robguyatt9602
@robguyatt9602 8 күн бұрын
@@TwickersMandM Yeah I get you. I forget the term but it was the same when I was a fisherman. Had to have the best brand reels. But having seen the minor differences in reviews, I have no desire to have either of the integral TC Z lenses. I'm very happy with the results of the lesser S line lenses. The 800 rarely comes off the camera. Only when doing the grandkids playing sport do I use the 100-400.
@DreamingOfReality
@DreamingOfReality 8 күн бұрын
Cant express how helpful your videos are love it!
@frederichore1890
@frederichore1890 8 күн бұрын
Hey Steve, your videos and tutorials are always exceptional! I enjoyed your analysis, tech breakdown and comparison of the various features of tele lenses you featured. If I may make one tiny suggestion, try other adjectives for "however" which you used a lot. Try... "on the other hand" or "another choice is..." Superb video otherwise with your usual dedication to detail. 5 stars! Happy New year to you and your loved ones. Cheers! Frederic in Montréal.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
I'd like to, however, I really like that word :) J/K - thanks for the suggestion. Now that you mention it, I think I did overuse it in this video!
@mm8276352
@mm8276352 8 күн бұрын
I had the Z 800 for a year, but finally bought a 400TC. The versatility of that lens is just incredible. It can even get me to 1120mm if I need to, with still decent image quality. Yes, I use it more at 560/4 than at 400/2.8. But I also shot quite a few images at either 400mm or at 800mm at very close distance that I love, and those just wouldn't have been possible with a 600/4.
@JohnPepp
@JohnPepp 8 күн бұрын
I love my 400mm f/2.8 because of the f/2.8 as I like not worry too much about lighting conditions.
@mikaelschulin4315
@mikaelschulin4315 4 күн бұрын
Best comparison video of super tele lenses I ever saw. 👏
@craigthompson6519
@craigthompson6519 6 күн бұрын
Another very informative video, thanks. I, and I suspect many of us, really appreciate all the work and time Steve takes to put videos like this together in a manner that is understandable. While, as a non-professional photographer, I can't justify the cost of a lens that is equivalent to a 10 day African safari, this info is helpful in selecting the lenses I do choose to use. Thanks again.
@NikCan66
@NikCan66 8 күн бұрын
Another great video to show what you actually need in focal length that one uses the most compared to what one thought was required
@mcr8759
@mcr8759 8 күн бұрын
Great video, thanks for putting all the work into making it so informative!
@PhilFowler-Jones
@PhilFowler-Jones 8 күн бұрын
I use a 400mm f2.8 f mount + 1.4 TC when necessary. My option if I need to go further, which isn’t often , I just flick into dx. It usually gives me something acceptable. It also works if I don’t have time to put the converter onto the lens. As you say, most wildlife doesn’t understand the command to sit still ! Happy new year from Colombia.
@Interbeing_CDN
@Interbeing_CDN 8 күн бұрын
Very well presented Steve.
@richardreed3959
@richardreed3959 7 күн бұрын
A few years ago I did a ton of research and analyzed my needs and chose the 400 2.8 and added a 1.4 tele-converter. I have never regretted the purchase, it has worked very well for me. I did add a 180-600 Z lens last month to pair with my Z9 when shooting BIF with good light and it has really worked well and I have better arm strength stamina.
@thefourthquarter7429
@thefourthquarter7429 6 күн бұрын
I love the 180-600! Such a versatile lens and bargain...and yes, it will build your stamina!
@richardreed3959
@richardreed3959 6 күн бұрын
@thefourthquarter7429 It does but it's actually about 1/2 the weight of my 400, so I can hold it up longer...been getting some great shots with it.
@fredschwab2718
@fredschwab2718 7 күн бұрын
Thank you so much for putting this deep dive together, Steve. I have a 200-500mm Nikkor that I've been using and often comes up too short. I looked at the meta data for most of my wildlife images and found that I consistently shoot at the long end of that lens, yet still end up cropping. I've tried TC's, but they just don't work very well for me on that lens. Based on the wealth of information you've presented here, this confirms that a 600 f4 is the right lens for me. There was a lot I hadn't even considered yet, so this was enormously helpful! Thanks again! Cheers!
@marcusslade9804
@marcusslade9804 8 күн бұрын
Having had my Nikkor 600 mm f4 (G) for eight years now, it has categorically been the right lens for me throughout that time and I still think it's fantastic...unfortunately, it hasn't got any lighter in the intervening time 🤣. Hats off for emphasizing the point about what native focal distance you spend the most time shooting at without a TC engaged and it's as true now (if not more so) as it was back then and you've always been consistent on that point. You are the best ambassador for wildlife photography itself. Many thanks.
@nancyfischer4399
@nancyfischer4399 5 күн бұрын
Thank you, Steve. This was a really well done video. Wish I had seen it before I making my decision. After much consternation, I decided on the Sony 400mm, which I don't regret. Further, I believe this study confirms that very personal decision, all the while knowing that someday I'll really wish I had the600 mm.
@hotshotstuff8080
@hotshotstuff8080 5 күн бұрын
Thanks for another great video Steve! Several years ago I went with the 400 2.8 for the added flexibility. Also I use a Nikon D500 and a D810 full frame, as well as a 1.4tc. I basically mount up whichever camera I need in the field for the distance away the subject is. This gives me 400mm 2.8 and 560 f4 on my full frame d810. As well as 600mm 2.8 and 840 f4 on my d500 with its 1.5 crop factor. With that being said, I find myself using the 400 with the 1.4tc on my d500 most of the time. Especially on smaller subjects like songbirds.
@RandomPersonWow
@RandomPersonWow 7 күн бұрын
Nice video, Steve! I always appreciate your in-depth videos and they have helped me so much over the years. I have one note to add based on my experience: sometimes my 400 yields me better images cropped into 600 than my 600 does. I don't think it's the lenses themselves but it has to do with the terrain shot over. That extra reach from the 600 really amplifies "heat haze"/ "distortion " and sometimes I'm happier with a cropped 400mm image over a non cropped 600. Maybe it's just me or how I shoot. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.... I shoot a lot of ducks that are arguably too far away, across water but I have no other alternative locally.
@robguyatt9602
@robguyatt9602 8 күн бұрын
I can tell you I have become expert at running backwards since purchasing the 800mm F6.3. LOL. Seriously though, it took a time to get used to the MFD but I have not looked backward (bad pun) since upgrading from the 100-400.
@ralfpassing
@ralfpassing 8 күн бұрын
I choose to buy the 400/4.5, the 600/6.3 and the 800/6.3 - less available light ability but no TCs needed and together the spending amount is the same. After a while you can figure out which lenght is the most used and you can switch to the 2.8 or 4 - and in the end you have the other options too. By the way "Wildlife inspired" made a good comparison as well - with a different result
@mmzwang
@mmzwang 8 күн бұрын
Great video and very informative. I shout BIF exclusively. Most of time, they are small birds, such as Kestrel, Say's phoebe or Swallows etc. So I use 800mm (Nikon 800mm PF) or 840mm (Nikon 600mm PF + 1.4x or 600mm TC +1.4). It depends on light to decide which lens to use. For small bird in flight, 600mm PF is the best. For BIF, the longer the better. Reach is just one aspect. Longer response time is another aspect. For example, given the same magnification for a bird from 25% of the frame to 50% (fly toward you). 600mm gives your 50% more time than 400mm.
@jackjericho
@jackjericho 8 күн бұрын
Excellent, timely video, thank you, Steve! Someday I will get either a 400 or 600 f/4, but every time I finally pick one, I second guess and then put off purchasing so I can continue researching/deciding. In a way, the analysis paralyses is saving me money, so I'll continue to be indecisive 😂
@pjdilip
@pjdilip 8 күн бұрын
Obviously need both! 🙄
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
LOL, it happens :) FWIW, 90% of the time you'll be happy with either one, this video helps you whittle down that extra %
@doriangray8007
@doriangray8007 8 күн бұрын
I'm a Nikon shooter, and I have a completely different opinion that I really like. I have the 300mm f2.8G VR II and the 500 f5.6 PF with the 1.4, 1.7, and 2.0 TC's, all F mount. That gives me 300 f2.8, 420 f4, 510 f4.9, 600 f5.6, 500 f5.6, 700 f8, 850 f9.5, and 1000 f 11. With proper technique, tripod, and remote shutter, I get very good results; and these lenses are much cheaper and much smaller and lighter weight. I think the F mount has very little if any loss in quality to the Z mount in the super telephoto range. I lose one stop of light compared to these top of the line, but I can live with that.
@Telemanblues
@Telemanblues 5 күн бұрын
Perfect statement: "Generally if I need 1200mm then my subject is just too far away (with the notable exception of tiny targets)." I am just starting out with bird photography and struggling to get frame filling photographs of small birds such as the red-bellied woodpecker. At the moment I am shooting on a R7 with a crop sensor and a RF 200-800 at 800mm which is 1360mm effective. My range to subject is about 30-40 feet. Maybe I just need to get closer? Awesome video - great information and perfect timing. Thank you!!
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 4 күн бұрын
Thanks - yeah, probably closer would help :) Sometimes, you gotta go to where the birds are a little more accustomed to people. :)
@dwv1900
@dwv1900 8 күн бұрын
I've been very happy with 100-400 zoom plus 600mm f4 TC for 100-840mm range. Looks like some photos from Chobe National Park, Botswana. Great to meet you there.
@cynthiabonnes9717
@cynthiabonnes9717 8 күн бұрын
Always enjoy your reviews. It really depends on what you’re shooting and where and if you want to be able to easily take on trips. The 600 is still large IMO. Loving my 800 pf and 180-600. If I’m going to a trip of a lifetime I could rent a lens at those prices after eating the value selling a 500 f4 ii last year. Never again unless it’s for income.
@biwageezer
@biwageezer 7 күн бұрын
Great video, Steve! Happy New Year to you and Rose. I bought the 600TC first and was just going to live with my 100-400. Then, Nikon had a refurbished 400TC listed for $10K...
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 7 күн бұрын
LOL, it's tough to resist!
@Kellysher
@Kellysher 7 күн бұрын
Interesting conversation and excellent presentation. I’m a serious hobbyist, not a pro. Cost is prohibitive for me, but truly, I don’t think that I would enjoy the weight, the loss of zoom flexibility, or carrying a tripod. Everyone is different with different needs. If money were no object, I’d have the 600 for specific applications, but I think my zoom would still be my day to day choice. I’m just happy to be in the game and being creative with the gear I own!
@user-vj9qw6ok1b
@user-vj9qw6ok1b 8 күн бұрын
I agree with your analysis, many KZbinrs dont understand about distances and wildlife. Yes, 600mm have an advantage by allowing to fill the frame easily.
@joakimolsson1024
@joakimolsson1024 6 күн бұрын
Of course its difficult, and sometimes impossible, to get closer to wildlife but tbh working on getting closer will generally get you better images than a longer lens. I shoot wildlife with the 400 2.8, working a lot with hides and getting closer, however if i was shooting mostly small birds (or very dangerous animals, without security) i would probably go för the 600.
@jean-louisrousselle1794
@jean-louisrousselle1794 7 күн бұрын
Steve thank you for an excellent video. I purchased the Canon EF 600mm F/4.0 L ll the year it came out and followed up with the Canon EF 300 f/2.8L No regrets, this combo has always satisfied my needs. Currently use these with my EOS R-7 & EOS R-5 Do not feel the need to upgrade to R series glass, I am used to the additional weight and superior build quality of the EF system.
@BillFerris
@BillFerris 8 күн бұрын
Steve, another thorough, balanced and objective presentation. Well done and thank you! I don't know if this was something you intended but your discussions of noise and subject separation do a great job of illustrating the usefulness of entrance pupil diameter when comparing different focal length lenses. The 600mm f/4 has a (600mm/4=150mm) 150mm diameter entrance pupil when wide open. The 400mm f/2.8 has a (400mm/2.8=143mm) slightly smaller 143mm entrance pupil. It is the size of the entrance pupil (the lens's aperture) that determines how much light is collected from the subject in the frame, the depth of field in the scene, and the size of bokeh balls. The 600mm has a slight advantage in light-gathering, a skosh more shallow depth of field, and introduces a bit more background blur, all due to its slightly larger 150mm entrance pupil.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
Thanks Bill :) I had actually thought about discussing physical aperture size for DoF and light gathering, but I was afraid it would take the video a little too far off track. In fact, at once point in the original script I mentioned the slightly larger physical aperture, but ended up cutting it, not wanting to jump into a whole explanation about it. That, and I figured they'd get the idea with the examples anyway and that's the main thing. :)
@BillFerris
@BillFerris 8 күн бұрын
​@@backcountrygallery plus, there are geeks like me who'll bring it up 😂
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
@@BillFerris Meh, you keep me sharp :)
@GaryKFroehlich-jh5mm
@GaryKFroehlich-jh5mm 8 күн бұрын
Well done, and your observations are very well explained. They also happen to agree with my own observations. In over 40 years of shooting (Nikons) I’ve used the flagship bodies and both the 400mm f/2.8 and the 600mm f/4-in the film era, the DSLR era, and now the mirrorless era. The 400mm is great for larger mammals and environmental shots, while the 600mm (especially the Z version!) is better for smaller mammals and almost all birds. If forced to choose only one (travel restrictions), the 600mm TC wins every time!
@vanmeter-photography
@vanmeter-photography 8 күн бұрын
I really enjoyed this video. I've been on the fence on getting a 600mm. After watching this, I am no longer on the fence. Your comparisons of each lenses quality were great. One of my reasons for going with the 600 weren't in the video though. At 66, I can't get as close to subjects as I used to. I'm not very stealthy anymore. Plus, some of the things that I shoot tend to bite or attack if you get to close. I'm like you, I want to fill the frame and I really don't like cropping unless I absolutely have to. You also did a good job of persuading me to take a look at teleconverters. I've never owned one, but after watching this video I may get a 1.4. Thank you for a great video.
@garrywatters1140
@garrywatters1140 8 күн бұрын
I'm a canon user and abuser and use the Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS USM with 2x and 1.4x converter on an R5 body and I am extremely happy with my results. With the large MP sensor I can crop in post and still get very usable pictures for printing up to A3.
@Dan.gibson.photographer
@Dan.gibson.photographer 8 күн бұрын
Big fan of the Sony 300mm f2.8 but I use mine with 61mpx. It’s and extremely lightweight lens!!! But anyway 300mm is cheap compared to a 400 or 600😉
@t.k.1448
@t.k.1448 8 күн бұрын
Thanks for the very enlightening and comprehensive comparison. I definitely fall into the 600mm camp, now there is just the small issue of the 15 or so thousand to cover the price of admission. What surprised me the most however, is how well the 400mm performs with all the different TCs. That sort of performance was unthinkable a few short years ago and only because we now have access to even better performing alternatives does it look "bad".
@billchambers6695
@billchambers6695 4 күн бұрын
Excellent video, Steve, as always. May I ask where do you purchase your lens test targets? I've looked around online but haven't found anything that looks as useful as the ones you use.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 4 күн бұрын
I made that one, took a couple of days to get it right. I just couldn't find any online that I wanted and the really high end ones were $800+
@billchambers6695
@billchambers6695 4 күн бұрын
Thanks so much! Yeah, I was shocked when I priced some of them - $800 - $2000 bucks!!!
@guenni0812
@guenni0812 7 күн бұрын
Hello Steve, I mainly use the Nikkor re 800 PF 6.3 for my photography and also the Nikkor 400 mm 4.5 and, depending on the application, also the 1.4 teleconverter and I find this to be a very balanced combination for wildlife photography.
@RVNmedic
@RVNmedic 8 күн бұрын
Great comparison. I'm using the EF 200-400 with built in 1.4 TC. Which is a great lens. I'm trying to decide on 400 2.8 or 600 F4 to get a stop faster (and of course 2 lbs lighter). Since I do mostly BIF I believe I'll go with the 600. Thanks for all the time you put in on this. Outstanding!
@ruiflores7672
@ruiflores7672 8 күн бұрын
Great video. Thanks a lot Steve!
@markachivers
@markachivers 8 күн бұрын
Great review as always Steve. I have the 400 TC as well as the 800PF. That gives me 400, 560 and 800 all on two bodies which I think gives the best range for my wildlife needs.
@user-markparker
@user-markparker 8 күн бұрын
Great video Steve, when these two Nikon lenses (400mm f/2.8 TC / 600mm f/4 TC) were released the big question every potential buyer was faced with was, which one? I chose the 600mm which suited my type of photography & after watching your video just reaffirmed that I made the right choice. Lastly, I’m glad you have a strong table as you had an awful lot of $$$$$$$$$$$$ sitting on it during the video!!… 🤣🤣
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
What I was really worried about was swinging my hands around and knocking something over! You can guess which system I'd be using then - the one with the missing lens (while my wife laughed at me).
@user-markparker
@user-markparker 8 күн бұрын
@ 🤣🤣
@uaebifvideo5472
@uaebifvideo5472 8 күн бұрын
Thank you for the information!! 👍🏼👍🏼
@JayBlue2U
@JayBlue2U 8 күн бұрын
After a quick skim of the video I still feel that the 400 f/2.8 is best for me, but there are times when I wish I had a 600 f/4. Such is life! Thanks for an informative comparison, Steve!
@johnhjic2
@johnhjic2 7 күн бұрын
Hello Steve, There was a lot of work went in to making this video. Thank you. But I know that I will never have the budget to get any of these lenses. So I will stick to my 600mm Z f5.6, but it was good to see some honesty about the three manufactures lenses in that they are all very good. Have a amazing 2025.
@noel_s_visuals
@noel_s_visuals 6 күн бұрын
Super interesting! Thanks for all the work you've put in this video. Helps me dream on which one I'll own one day ;-)
@frankcruz8068
@frankcruz8068 8 күн бұрын
Excellent work, Steve. I own the 400 2.8 TC, and keep the external 1.4 TC on the lens 80-90% of the time. I find the loss of IQ and focus speed to be negligible, and I only engage the internal TC in extreme cases. I often think that I have the wrong lens, except for the 15% of the time when I use the 400 2.8, the results are always glorious at 400. I also keep the 800 PF for cases where everything is far and I need a lighter lens, while slightly slower focus the IQ is always great even with a 1.4 or 2X TC.
@googbert
@googbert 2 күн бұрын
So much information. Not sure which I might look at next. For now I will stick with the 600 6.3 PF lens
@bmwohl
@bmwohl 8 күн бұрын
Steve, this is one of my all time favorite discussions on shooting wildlife. I'm very amateur, and I use the Nikkor Z 100-400 with both the 1.4 and the 2.0 TC and with a 45 megapixel sensor. Until I have more experience, this will work for me.
@DuopolyJul
@DuopolyJul 7 күн бұрын
Wow! Very good detail comparison. 400mm 2.8 for sports and wildlife large mammals. 600mm for birds and small mammals. 500mm is a good medium for me for its smaller size compared to 600mm.
@selectiveimagery
@selectiveimagery 8 күн бұрын
Steve as always a great detailed comparison, this should be a video that everyon watches just to understand how subject distance is a big factor. Getting off topic a bit, I know a few folks that have the Nikon 600 f4 with the built in 1.4x TC but they rarely use it and if they do it's predominantly on a tripod. They typically use the 600 or 800PF lenses due to the lighter weight and flexibility when walking around a bit. This could be an interesting discussion for another video. Take care - Jeff
@mdjak3686
@mdjak3686 6 күн бұрын
I used to watch this channel all the time. Since I sold my gear, not so much. I can’t remember the last time I saw even a tourist in NYC carrying a camera.
@curtislewis3555
@curtislewis3555 8 күн бұрын
I shoot Canon. I sold my 400 f2.8 and bought the 600 f4. I just didn't get enough reach with the 400. I photograph a variety of birds, so keeping my distance is important to me. Great video.
@ericsmith9777
@ericsmith9777 8 күн бұрын
Steve, like usual, this is going to cost me money !!! Currently shooting a Nikon Z9 for wildlife/birds. Have the Z800mm and retained one F mount lens, the 180-400mm as it is an incredible lens. Thanks for what you do............
@jeffreystulin8130
@jeffreystulin8130 6 күн бұрын
Steve is a master of solid information and common sense.
@ED-on8to
@ED-on8to 7 күн бұрын
Awesome video!
@davidgreener2070
@davidgreener2070 8 күн бұрын
Thanks for another great video. I agonized over the 600mm vs 400mm choice for quite some time. I find the 600mm mostly better for North American wildlife and birds, while the 400mm is usually better for the closer-in large mammals in the non-plains areas of Africa. Always a tough choice though between two absolutely excellent lenses!
@chrisbartlett8146
@chrisbartlett8146 7 күн бұрын
Great comparison. I was originally using a Fuji with a 150-600mm lens but found in New Zealand where most of our wildlife are birds I was almost always shooting at 600mm. I am now using the 600mm f6.3 pf on my Z8 and was worried I would not be close enough to the birds due to the crop factor so also bought the 1.4 x converter. I found even though the birds were smaller in the frame I usually had more definition of the birds with the FF camera and only use a shorter lens in the forest but on another camera as for most shots I can still get the whole bird in the frame at 600 mm. The f6.3 is much lighter and smaller than the f4 so is more suited to my photography and the setup is lighter than the Fuji XH2s with the 150-600 lens when I was using it on the Z6iii but prefer the Z8.
@santoshmahalik
@santoshmahalik 8 күн бұрын
Though currently I can not afford either of these lenses, I enjoyed the video. Fantastic video as always with a lot of learning. Keep sharing. Thank you.
@Met.Photography
@Met.Photography 6 күн бұрын
Hey sir, What combo would you recommend?The Nikon Z8+Z 800mm pf vs. Z9+600mm pf z vs. EOS R1+rf100-500+1.4x or the rf 200-800 vs.the R5ii with the same lens options as the R1?For bifs and wildlife
@johnsanderson9510
@johnsanderson9510 8 күн бұрын
Great work as always, I wonder how many of your conclusions will be relevant when tested on the A1 mkii, regards John.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
Much of this was done on the a1mkii
@Atrangi_chhap
@Atrangi_chhap 8 күн бұрын
I'm eagerly waiting for your z50ii review with tips and tricks
@CamillaI
@CamillaI 8 күн бұрын
It largely depends what wildlife you shoot small birds go for the 600 mm f4 but for Larger subject mammals on Safari for example the 400mm is probably enough and a Stop faster . Here in the UK I was very pleased I chose the 600mm f4 over the 400mm f2.8 . You also get a very usable 840mm f5.6 with 1.4 TC
@MiguelACoronaDM
@MiguelACoronaDM 8 күн бұрын
Great video and comparison! Out of curiosity - what bag are you using to carry the lens (and camera). I've been looking for a good option in this regard. Thank you!
@thebearpike
@thebearpike 8 күн бұрын
I can answer that on Steve's behalf, as I have the same: It's a GuraGear Kiboko 30 (not sure if he has the one with Notebook slot or the one without, though).
@jerjaws
@jerjaws 8 күн бұрын
After owning both. I do miss my 400mm 2.8. I did sell it to buy my 600mm. But since I own the 600mm I’m gonna add the 300mm to the line up
@scottlewisphotography
@scottlewisphotography 8 күн бұрын
Hard to use focal length of an existing library to see which focal lengths of lenses you don't yet own you use most often .... I come at the same question a slightly different way by taking a sense of what percentage of my images I felt the need to crop and by how much. Not easy to analyze that from data unless you keep track of it as you edit but even a "feel" for it can help.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
It's tough - but I feel like most people have one of those super zooms before they get into something more expensive and it at least gives them a starting point. And I do mention that they need to think about how much they crop.
@matthieugraveleau
@matthieugraveleau 3 күн бұрын
Hello Steve, Thanks for the interesting video it is really helpfull for me hen trying to decide which way to go. I have an extra question for you. I'm a Nikon shooter, still in DSLR and will most likely move soon to mirrorless. Also I'm not an hardcore wildlife shooter but I would like to do more. I won't be able to afford the new high-end lenses so I have a little dilemma. Should I invest in the more affordable Z telephoto such as the 600mm f6.3 or for around the same price a use older 600 FL or even G for cheaper and adapt? Really hopping you could give me your point of view. Thanks again for all the great content. Best Matt
@juliette-mansour
@juliette-mansour 7 күн бұрын
Hi Steve, size and weight is my biggest concern. Unfortunately, due to a hand injury, the 400mm f/4.5 is more my option. Nevertheless, I watched the whole thing! I love your videos, website courses, and your instructional style!
@thefourthquarter7429
@thefourthquarter7429 6 күн бұрын
Excellent video / analysis! Since I could only afford one, I would probably get the 400 F2.8 (Nikon). That said, I'm not excited about the rest of the necessary kit - a monopod for sure, but likely a heavy-duty tripod and gimbal. Given that I would still use the 180-600 most often for BIF.
@robertoa6958
@robertoa6958 3 күн бұрын
Now with the Sony 300 f2.8 available we have another element to consider when choosing a telephoto lens. The price ($6K) and the aperture 2.8 allow the use of a 1.4 TC and got the reach and aperture for less money and weight.
@AlexandreLeG
@AlexandreLeG 8 күн бұрын
Nice comparison, just a little mistake when comparing DoF between the 400/2.8 cropped x1.5 and the 600/4, you need to adjust the CoC, as you're effectively shooting with an APS-C sensor, the result is that both should have the exact same DoF (at least by calculation)
@seantomlinson3320
@seantomlinson3320 7 күн бұрын
Nope, not going to buy any of them but I still love you work and I'm watching the whole thing! My favorite option is a 500 f/4. A very happy, and smaller and less expensive, middle ground!
@vimalneha
@vimalneha 3 күн бұрын
Very well-researched video with all possibilities considered. I will use a Zoom lens.
@richardbedford5558
@richardbedford5558 8 күн бұрын
Great video again! I have to use a Nikon Z 600mm with 1.4x built in tc for my bif work here in the UK...birds always so far away.
@viv5964
@viv5964 8 күн бұрын
Excellent video, especially now we have a 300 F2.8 which one can hand hold with 1.4x all day! My request to Steve is to make a video on how he starts in the field i.e. with or without convertor as changing them in dusty outdoor is tricky
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
LOL, I wish I had a good answer for that. With the TC lenses it's easy - I don't care! With the Sony gear, I try to anticipate what I think I'll need based on the situation. Sometimes you know you'll need a longer lens. However, my "default" if there is one is no TC.
@perryelder5045
@perryelder5045 8 күн бұрын
Excellent video
@imtiazakbar9795
@imtiazakbar9795 8 күн бұрын
you do really hard work ,Nikon should pick you an ambassador 👍
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
Thanks! We've actually talked about it, but I told them I think we're better off with our current relationship. As soon as you're an ambassador, people think Nikon is paying you to say good things about their gear, even if it's not true. I like to stay neutral. :)
@andycoleman2708
@andycoleman2708 7 күн бұрын
Love this! But I would love to see your comparison between prime and zoom lenses. I'm confident that 400 2.8 will be sharper than my 100-400 5.6, but how much more? $12,000 more?
@Richard-i9t2k
@Richard-i9t2k 8 күн бұрын
Great video as always, Happy New 2025🎉
@shanthaw527
@shanthaw527 7 күн бұрын
Very interesting Steve , and my thanks for your advices. I use 400mm f2.8 in Srilanka for more than 10 years now . I photograph birds , sloth bears , leopards and elephants in this lsland , and for my small birds it may not be the best sometimes but for the larger birds the lesns is fine with the the Tc s l have . As you all know finding the subjects is the most difficult in wildlife trips and l always go for large animals in a 4 x 4 with one to drive for me , so l have the time as in the next second without delay , as soon a the vehicle stops for me to photograph . In the island we have a estimate of 6000 wild elephants and about 1000 leopards and l am lucky enough to see 4235 sightings of elephants and 452 sightings of leopards so far having all the difficulties in finding while going in the vehicle . For the larger animals 400mm is enough and distance is ideal for most of the time while taking from the vehicle most of the time lens is rested on the window of the back door of the vehicle for stability.
@simons9952
@simons9952 8 күн бұрын
Great video. Theres one more thing, which would also come into play and that is focusing at all in very dark/bad conditions. I guess the 400 2.8 also has an edge here, where the 600 maybe is going to pump. One more strange thing, which I noticed with my Nikon 400 2.8 TC: it is sharper in the center with an external 1.4 TC, than with the internal. Did you test this as well?
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 7 күн бұрын
I've not really run into too many issues like that - once it's too dark for F/4, it's usually just too dark (at least for me). I didn't test just the external TC - it might be a touch sharper, I don't know.
@benstill6924
@benstill6924 7 күн бұрын
Interesting. Would you please compare low versus high mp cameras as a third option. I have often wondered if the super lenses were overkill on lower res cams.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 7 күн бұрын
I might do that - thanks for the idea :)
@Blueangel290393
@Blueangel290393 2 күн бұрын
For wildlife probably 500 f4. And for everything! the old good heavy 300mm 2.8! It's my most used allrounder with teleconverter of course.
@NAG3V
@NAG3V 8 күн бұрын
Your mention of looking at Lightroom statistics for focal lengths gave me an idea for gathering more detailed stats. I've already written some scripts for looking and modifying xmp files. I'm guessing that LR catalog also contains similar data for all those photos, so it should be possible to write a program to scan catalog and generate some statistics that combine both FL and crop to see the most used angles of view.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
That would be really cool - outside of my wheelhouse - but cool!
@BillFerris
@BillFerris 8 күн бұрын
You raise an interesting point that reveals a missing feature of Lightroom. It doesn't allow you to filter images by size. For example, it would be really useful to filter images by camera (doable), lens (doable) or focal length (doable), and image size in pixels along an edge (not doable). That would paint a clear picture of the frequency and depth of cropping one typically does. Personally, I upgraded to a Z9 with 800 PF in May of last year. A big factor in my decision was mining the most commonly used focal length over 6 years shooting with a D500 & 200-500. In LrC, I found I was at the 500mm end of the lens 85% of the time. Being an APS-C system, that translated to using a 750mm angle of view 85% of the time. Applying a conservative fudge factor on the frequency I cropped shorter focal lengths to match that 750mm equivalent AOV, I upped the number to 90% That made upgrading to the eminently handholdable 800 PF a no-brainer for me and how I shoot. 😊
@bamsemh1
@bamsemh1 7 күн бұрын
Depends on the lightning conditions
@FitzMichael
@FitzMichael 8 күн бұрын
Steve when are you going to test the A1 MKII?
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
I have it, just gotta get out and use it now :) I'm taking it to the Galapagos for a month and then to Africa for another month. I'll bet I have some thoughts to share after that!
@FitzMichael
@FitzMichael 8 күн бұрын
@ cool awesome 😎
@DavidSchamis
@DavidSchamis 8 күн бұрын
I feel like if I only did sports the easy choice is the 400; if I only did wildlife I would go for the 600; if I did both and could only buy one I would buy the 400; if I did both and could buy both I would. P.S. I went with choice D!
@birdysviews
@birdysviews 7 күн бұрын
Once again your videos are always helpful and entertaining. One question though.... I currently have a Canon 77d with a Sigma 150-600mm lens. I am looking to upgrading to Canon R6 mk2 but I am thinking of using a 1.4x teleconverter, to compensate for the crop factor from the 77d, as it is Crop sensor instead of Full frame. This would mean I have to use an RF adaptor and then add the 1.4x Converter onto that then add the lens. Will this degrade the images alot ?
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 7 күн бұрын
I've not used the Sigma 150-600, so I don't know how it takes TCs. However, I can say that generally zoom - superzooms in particular - don't like TCs, and you do take a pretty good hit in image quality.
@brucesummers7448
@brucesummers7448 8 күн бұрын
What sticks out is the number of images shot at 840mm with a 1.4x on the 600mm lens. This can be achieved with the less expensive and far lighter 800mm PF lens. Another consideration is what subjects are photographed. Many of Steve's subjects were large mammals photographed in Africa. This environment is found in the USA at Yellowstone NP and places with very large birds in Florida. Neither lens is well suited to photographing subjects from a boat as they require the use of a tripod.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
FWIW, I was tempted to add the 800PF to this mix, but Sony and Canon don't really have a similar lens and I wanted to keep it about the two big primes. I can tell you when I know I'm going to be at 800mm a lot, I take the 800PF and use it instead of the 600TC - so much lighter and I like the smaller size too. Great lens.
@codebunnies
@codebunnies 8 күн бұрын
@@backcountrygallery love my 800 PF. Though which it too had the flip in TC, though I usually know if I am going after subjects that need it.
@RussandLoz
@RussandLoz 8 күн бұрын
I've never been able to shoot at 100iso for wildlife, so really, do these charts makes sense? Very comprehensive and great video as always, thank you.
@Capcity44
@Capcity44 8 күн бұрын
US has lots of scenarios where it is feasible to shoot low ISO’s. Beaches, deserts and more.
@RussandLoz
@RussandLoz 8 күн бұрын
@@Capcity44 Fair enough, Here in the UK its not so common, I've been taking wildlife for a year and never had anything that low
@user-vj9qw6ok1b
@user-vj9qw6ok1b 8 күн бұрын
Understand, when comparing two things you have to minimize the effect of other factors, in this case ISO. So, you test in ideal conditions to avoid any interference due to noise, vibration or subject movement. And yes, there are people interested in this kind of analysis because they want to understand how the equipment works and that helps taking a better decision when buying expensive lenses.
@codebunnies
@codebunnies 8 күн бұрын
@@RussandLoz I've got wildlife shots at ISO 64 f/2.8 1/800s in Scotland... I can't image it is much darker down in England that it is up here.
@TRobBrownPhotography
@TRobBrownPhotography 8 күн бұрын
100 ISO is f/4 at 1/1000 per the Sunny Day Rule. At f/2.8, you can shoot at 1/2000. Shooting at ISO 100 gives you a nice, tight, smooth image--rarely any artifacts/noise.
@Narwaro
@Narwaro 8 күн бұрын
For me the 600f4 always was the most versatile. I shot birds for a long time and the 600f4, D850 and 1.7TC were a dream combo. The 1.7 is worlds better than the 2.0 imo, and turns the lens into a 1000mm f6.7 lens which is very reasonable. The 600f4 has enough reserves for the 1.7TC. If you need more than 1000mm, I think you need to look at the 800 or a telescope. The 2x is a little softer and mushy and the AF system really cant keep up with the light loss. But its very specific to what you do which lens is a better choice. If youre not extremely light-limited the 400 isnt that useful anymore I think. It was in film days and grainy digital days. In an emergency you can take a 70-200 with a 2x TC and be fine. With most animals youll have trouble filling the frame anyways. And if not theyre probably gonna bite your ass. 😂
@chennytango9298
@chennytango9298 6 күн бұрын
i have a nikon z400 4.5 and 800 FL. but i had a new discovery. i love the sony 300 2.8 GM with 1.4 and 2.0 TC. the lens is amazingly light and sharp and works well for 1.4 TC and 2.0 TC is reasonably sharp. it pair very well with my a7Rv. this set is under 4 LB in total with 300 2.8. 420 f4 and 560 F5.6 in very small mobile setting for safari or on the go handheld.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 6 күн бұрын
That 300 2.8 is really cool - I have one as well and agree with everything you mention- it's a great setup.
@chennytango9298
@chennytango9298 4 күн бұрын
@ thanks steve. on a unrelated question as both Nikon and Sony shooter, do you find that Sony lens or body render a yellow-ish tint on the picture than Nikon and its auto white balance seems a bit off more often. Just wondering if you noticed the same and if so, what do you do to adjust the color to match that of Nikon’s color???
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 3 күн бұрын
@@chennytango9298 Yes, I find Sony tends to have warmer colors, Nikon cooler colors. Although, between the two, I tend to find Nikon a little more accurate. However, none of it matters since I adjust WB in Lightroom when it's all said and done :)
@chennytango9298
@chennytango9298 3 күн бұрын
@@backcountrygallery thanks for confirming. as always love your videos and all the detailed explanations
@lumenspaul
@lumenspaul 7 күн бұрын
Interesting comparisons but I doubt many wildlife photographers will be able to go through their lightroom catalogue to decide if they shot more photos at 400mm 2.8 v 600mm f4,which is good case for a m43 om 150-400mm with t/c built in.
@rlast123
@rlast123 8 күн бұрын
Steve, thanks again for your great video. One idea: Rather than measuring focus speed from minimum distance to infinity (32.54min) isn’t measuring the speed for a fixed distance (eg 5 to 50 meters) difference a better indicator? The test procedure you use, depends a lot on what the minimum focus distance is, a lens with a shorter distance has a disadvantage. I’m most interested how fast a lens can follow my subjects in a reasonable range.
@backcountrygallery
@backcountrygallery 8 күн бұрын
I did an AF speed test video awhile ago where I discussed that - in short, most lenses can follow anything once the camera gets a lock. I think the video was called something like AF Speed - Do You Have It All Wrong (or similar). The reason I use minimum focus distance to infinity is because where AF speed really counts is when the camera misses and hunts - and this test does a good job measuring that issue :)
@rlast123
@rlast123 8 күн бұрын
@ thanks, understand your point.
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