'Bad Blood' author John Carreyrou discusses Theranos trial

John Carreyrou, former WSJ reporter and ‘Bad Blood’ author, joins 'TechCheck' to discuss the Elizabeth Holmes case and the verdict which found Holmes guilty of defrauding investors but not patients. For access to live and exclusive video from CNBC subscribe to CNBC PRO: cnb.cx/2NGeIvi
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[@pete6705]

Carreyrou is the best, he did an unbelievable job reporting in this. I think Liz did more than just exaggerate claims, she outright lied thousands of times. She told investors they had 100M in revenue when they only have 100K in revenue, and she said her product was actively being used on medivac helicopters when they didn’t even work with the military and didn’t even have a working product. There were so many more lies like this. I think that’s different than saying a software program is further along than it is. Also she was purporting to have developed some that as of right now isn’t even scientifically possible, and may never be

[@were455]

I was really impressed by how he just stuck to the facts. He knew a lot about blood testing technology and was able to see through her lies. Very impressive when she managed to fool sophisticated investors.

[@SOS-ct9mv]

Her father ran the biggest corporate fraud in U.S. History as VP of Enron, he then connected his daughter billionaire investors, who knew his personal history of running a successful fraud company for 20 yrs, All Enron investors made billions before Enron collapsed. I would speculate these billionaire investors were hoping to make the same amount of money before Theranos collapsed. Her largest investor Rupert Murdoch could have helped in the fraud by insisting she go on all magazine covers creating a bs narrative. ( that's just my guess though) would be nice if any corporate media anchor would ask a follow-up question or dig around a little to prove or disprove my theory. But that won't happen as Rupert Murdoch is their daddy.

[@were455]

@@SOS-ct9mv That's very interesting. I didn't know that about her father, I guess that maybe some of her influence came from him. However, what I found very surprising was why she had Henry Kissinger and George Schultz on her board. Notwithstanding the fact they were diplomatic geniuses, they really were not equipped to understand the scientific nature of her fraud. I remember one interview John Carreyrou did where he started talking about 'microfluidic assays' in the context of blood processing technology and it was clear to me that he had spent time and effort familiarising himself with that information which probably helped him understand her fraud. The reality is that Kissinger and Schultz had no requisite knowledge/understanding of any of this information and hence couldn't interrogate her claims at all. It's a bit embarrassing if I am honest.

[@FC-hj9ub]

@@SOS-ct9mv her father wasn't even in enron when it happened

[@FC-hj9ub]

@@were455 because it isn't true. Yes he worked for Enron but not at the time the scandal broke out

[@FC-hj9ub]

Because Carreyou consulted experts. Something investors easily could have done in 1 week.

[@draconisdragonheart4248]

Let's not try to make her a victim when the investors and patients were the real victims.

[@rajs7876]

Investor didnt do their due diligence

[@draconisdragonheart4248]

@@rajs7876 They were lied to.

[@sarl2121]

The way she lied under oath about being the victim of sexual and emotional abuse is further proof of how unscrupulous she is.

[@VideoNOLA]

EH has been weird her entire life. I think she finally felt important to someone, and that someone exploited her trust by filling her with a false sense of entitlement.

[@deborahhoffman7394]

When one knows their guilty, they can always use the fallback -- sexual abuse.

[@caib714]

She got away with destroying the clinical database while also claiming it could prove her innocence. To me, this also shows intent to defraud patients because the data would show exactly how bad her devices were functioning in real clinical setting and her going live anyways. If she had good intentions, she would share that knowledge with the scientific community so others could learn from her mistakes.

[@MsGirlnextdoor123]

Of course. Unfortunately in our justice system this will be counted as reasonable doubt I think. Always give the benefit of the doubt. That's a great principle, except for people like Holmes it becomes a get out of jail free pass.

[@redmed10]

Destroying evidence should have been one of the charges as well as fraud.

[@MsGirlnextdoor123]

@@redmed10 True, but would they have PROOF that SHE destroyed it or gave clear instructions to destroy it? Very unlikely I think. Besides, if she gave instructions to destroy it (which is most likely, she and/or Balwani), that would come under conspiracy to fraud I guess.

[@dukeofdubuque950]

Maybe it was a weird combination of shame and hubris. She would have had to admit that using a tiny blood sample to test for hundreds of different tests had no scientific or medical basis in reality, as many people told her from the very beginning. But maybe she didn't know. She probably never took a biology or biochemistry course in college. Anybody with a medical background would have known the whole thing was fiction. I doubt if she kept any database at all.

[@MsGirlnextdoor123]

@@dukeofdubuque950 very interesting thought. I wouldn't be surprised. You're spot on about the hubris and shame combination.

[@kayjohnson9822]

I totally agree she needs to pay for what she did. She should found guilt for using the unvalidated instrument to produce test results that affect patients health in a massive scale. She violated so many rules and some laws in medical laboratory technology. I worked in hospital lab for 40 years one thing for certain is you never report a patient test result when your quality control is out of range. But Elizabeth Holmes has no idea she is committing Frauds right at the beginning by tossing quality control datas to fit her own purposes.

[@lornarettig3215]

I think she knew exactly what she was doing but thought it was fine for her to behave like this. (I’m also in medical industry.) At best, I think she knowingly lied ‘for a worthy cause’, but (1) you can’t skate on patient results, as you say, and (2) she had no basis for believing her cause was worthy, because she was told from before the beginning of her company that her idea couldn’t work.

[@derekcho2312]

If I were Billy Evans : "I'm saying goodbye Elizabeth, and it is not too soon"

[@cintroberts6614]

Awesome job, I like that this man saw through all of the BS and took this woman down. Way to go John

[@rajs7876]

He didn't see through anything. He is a journalist who relied on whistleblowers and scientists who brought it to his attention.

[@rajcan2008]

She was no Steve Jobs. She is more in tune with Bernie Madoff, and deserve long sentence like him.

[@marioarias9942]

Ironically one of Steven Jobs gf is named Elizabeth Holmes 😅

[@enzov9772]

I can understand the not guilty on the defrauding patients charge but wouldn’t it have been a malpractice charge instead?

[@josephthemann1174]

She's not a clinical professional

[@madamcurry9297]

Correct on this. Imagine those patients who were tested and the results are not real and were giving medications to take. How many patients are taking medications since 2015 because their doctors trusted Theranos blood test results. The President of the company and Her should be held accountable for this.

[@electropanel1211]

Can she be charged with experimenting on patients using her fraud tactics?

[@JohnSmith-eo5sp]

If so it is too late to do that now

[@feedyourhead731]

Evidently that's a civil infraction. Medical negligence but not with intent. I personally think it should be considered criminal.

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

The fact that she strategically allowed herself to fall pregnant before her trial says it all for me. What a horrible, calculating creature she is! 😱

[@MrDaveB123]

That is what you call Borderline Sociopath

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

@@MrDaveB123 She has crossed the line. 😳

[@MrDaveB123]

@@kerstinklenovsky239 she crossed many lines a lonnnng time ago. This is just a calculated move to try to gain empathy-to lighten her sentence All calculated by the psychopath

[@sharonhoxie5889]

@@MrDaveB123 maybe not even borderline

[@YukarioMashimato]

Don't give any excuses for white collars to avoid prison time! Pay for the crime because lower class citizens don't get a pass

[@mepulley7913]

In John’s book, Elizabeth’s father told her to live her life with “Purpose”. I wonder what “purpose” she’ll find in prison. Also how he now sees where that “purpose” got her.

[@steewith2ees14]

Just finished BB. Incredible reporting and bravery on behalf of the whistleblowers!

[@markm.9458]

What happened to investor 'due diligence'? Her claims defied physics. I have an idea for a flying car that stores in a briefcase. I only need 1m. Any takers? ... Berk? ... Wal?.... Mr K?

[@adrianjanssens7116]

I'm in, but I have to wait till they announce the winning lottery numbers.

[@LD-qj2te]

Correct ! I just invented a new material called imaginarium …. Lighter than paper stronger than steel , doesn’t corrode oh yeah and doesn’t exist - but I hope to invent it ! Give me money !!

[@GC-qe8vc]

Are you a woman or a member of any other demographic that can we can use as a marketing tool? If yes, I'd like to invest because "you need to believe in your dreams and make the world a better place". I'll give you a call after my yoga session.

[@thomasaquinas2600]

When the surface of things is so appealing, including her credentials and herself, we often just skip over the details. And don't tell us it's too good to be true. Sort of like the Trojans: hey, look at that magnificent horse, dedicated to us; wheel it in...

[@LoneTinaja]

“Elizabeth Holmes”, a poem - She’s got a new identity. The way it was meant to be. Felon Liz. That’s who she is. Sweet reality.

[@bettyboop-xg6jo]

Congatulations Mr Carreyrou. Your book is excellent research and I am pleased you exposed her.

[@nancychace8619]

Thank you to Mr. Carreyrou for all his work. I can't drum up much sympathy for Ms. Holmes. I have a rip-off neighbor just like her. Always trying to get over at anyone and everyone's expense. These kinds of people will never learn if allowed to get away with it all the time. Ms. Holmes' lack of care for patients potentially could have cost hundreds of thousands of lives, if not more. Kind of breathtaking that the only ones who got any real satisfaction were the big money investors. And, no, having a baby is not an excuse not to be held accountable.

[@Actias1974]

Interesting that her punishment was to pay for crossing the super rich. Nothing for the people she defrauded with false medical data. You can tell who hold the most sway.

[@monica012077]

I'm disgusted at the emphasis on getting justice for the investors. We're more concerned with her lying to the public and jeopardizing people's health.

[@Linda-pw8gx]

One very smart writer/reporter/investigator

[@lesliematteis8010]

John Carryrou is the greatest.

[@ak203]

By the way does anyone think a male defendant would be holding his spouse's hand and his parents' hand every time he went to court? What's with that?

[@Actias1974]

Poor little white blond girl persona.

[@ak203]

@@Actias1974 So its the skin color and hair color huh? Nice 21st century thinking

[@Samuels-nz9em]

The man would be portrayed as Satan himself.

[@Actias1974]

@@ak203 that makes no sense. Did you even understand what I said or just looking to be outraged?

[@weemeemoo]

A male would definitely be doing that

[@ciarandoyle4349]

If Ms Holmes had used her marketing instincts and considerable powers of persuasion to found a religious cult or a political movement she would have made billions for herself.

[@sperrowhawk100]

Carreyrou's take is the the one I am most interested to hear, thanks!

[@ABDU7194]

I like this journalist. He is amazing.

[@HettiedeKorteDiplomaat]

She presented a machine that didn’t work. So she risked people’s lives. Knowingly. She’s just a con-artist.

[@drincogni]

Holding hands like in kindergarden seems a thing among the guilty now

[@AronEdwards]

She needs to go to jail because she was dishonest and put patients lives at risk being a woman has nothing to do with it.

[@boatman222345]

This whole affair is simply beyond belief. How could anyone listen to this woman ramble on and on and yet never even come close to answering a simple straight forward and then invest in her company? To call her transparent would be a gross understatement. As to her being a woman motivating attacks I would suggest otherwise. Given the current attack on STEM being dominated by male chauvinists her being a woman in the high tech medical world would all but guarantee that she would not be attacked. A video of Holmes giving a presentation to a group of chemists that runs on KZbin clearly demonstrates the hesitency of others to question her qualifications or the truth of her claims. Holmes literally failed to answer even the simpliest of their questions and her presentation was so lame that were she a male I,suspect she would have been ejected from the meeting.

[@kimjellen4508]

Good question, Deirdre.

[@GC-qe8vc]

I was waiting for the only serious person involved in this case to speak publicly. The media gave so much time to the "silicon valley sweatheart" and then the "handsome hero", but this guy is the only one who calls a spade a spade.

[@eolyt]

Question is also why it was possible for the company to do some live experiments on patients ? Some responsibility must be borne by medical regulators and Walgreens who failed to audit properly at that point. To some extent it could be argued that investors bear some responsibility too by giving power (money) without funding independent safeguards along the way (law and insurance come too late for affected patients). Auditing could be done very easily without revealing any trade secret, by just analysing same blood sample with the company's machine and a reliable big clumsy machine and that would have been job done. That auditing is what happened eventually thanks to this journalist and other people concerned about the credibility of the company.

[@williamshipley4841]

The thing that amazes me is that while you can get excited about technology etc., at the end there is a result. Knowing that the result is valid is a simple issue that every laboratory in the country does every day for every test. You run a sample of a known value and compare the result you get with that value. Clinical laboratory regulations require you to do that at least once a day for two different values for every test you intend to run on patients. When you are setting up a new device, even a normal one that you purchased, you have to start by comparing a result on it with a result from a known good instrument (correlation study).

[@AliKhan-fs3rm]

This man took down theranos and Liz Holmes single handedly!!

[@simcastpodvids]

Her White Privilege card is still being put to good use. She is found guilty but still able to walk free! I would have been handcuffed and sent straight to jail. The media did not cover the trial but they all jumped on the verdict. STRANGE!

[@grahamo22]

The media did cover the trial - there's hours of content and detailed podcasts covering everything.

[@simcastpodvids]

@@grahamo22 The major news and media outlets did not cover the trial extensively. Cnn and Court TV barely covered the trial. Independent channels did, maybe some attorneys and lawyers but the major outlets did not.

[@larryo6874]

She will most likely be sentenced to many years in jail.

[@raymondcolison4501]

It will be interesting to see what happens to Sunny Balwani. Especially since little miss holmes accused him of doing the r word while they were dating

[@missmerbella]

Where was Bernie Madoff's "white privilege card" when he got sentenced to 150 years?

[@NPak-cw1ny]

Thank you John for shining the light on these felons.

[@fruitpunch5260]

How on earth could that dude propose to her knowing what she's done

[@aresmars2003]

If she sold her tests as a "quick and dirty hack" to flag early problems, and then validated by better tests, perhaps she'd be honest, IF her tests were at least marginally accurate. Perhaps if she had focused on ONE medical condition and ONE blood marker for that condition, and got 90% accurate results, maybe she'd have something, but it wouldn't reach a $9 billion market value. INSTEAD she promised 200 tests, and most apparently didn't exist OR could be off by 1000%!

[@themessenger2455]

Until she's physically behind bars I still think she'll walk.

[@Franciscasieri]

Please don't think because it's just a feeling you have with absolutely no facts You might want to try to read

[@PungiFungi]

NOBODY as far as I know, have EVER just walked after being convicted in a FEDERAL trial. .

[@themessenger2455]

@@PungiFungi I hear you but she seems awefully calm for someone who's soon to be doing jail time😕

[@Foxie635]

@@themessenger2455 one reporter said she cried.

[@themessenger2455]

@@Foxie635 crocodile tears. Only one reporter!?

[@qarnos]

Guy at 3:10 has a point... Bernie Madoff and Billy McFarland only had the book thrown at them because they were women.

[@JConestar]

E. Holmes needs to rot in prison for playing with patients lives.

[@junfu9452]

Her naivete and the greed from investors made all this possible. You don't have to be scientist to figure this out: one drop of blood is simply not enough the do what she promised to do.

[@deborahhoffman7394]

"Bad Blood" is riveting. Holmes deserves prison time.

[@mauricioweber8879]

The argument that her being a woman is the only reason she didn't “get away with it” is the dumbest defense ever.! Pure bull. The was no shred of new technology advancement to back her story, and she NEW IT !!

[@brutussmithers3777]

Fake it till you make it…or…till you get 20 years in prison. Whichever comes first…

[@MrYugo777]

Bought the book yesterday can't wait to read it!

[@Dascorpio36]

She's not getting the book thrown at her because she's a woman. Stealing from rich people was her crime.

[@samansiddiquie1902]

Come on! Don’t let her get away with this. Don’t sentence her with leniency cos she’s a woman

[@bikedawg]

I'd give her 30 consecutive years with the possibility of parole after 20 years served.

[@geekbaritone]

What difference does it make if she's a woman? The only people getting justice here are the rich people that she defrauded if she was doing this to common people that don't have much money to invest, she'd probably would not even go to trial. As always, she will not serve her due punishment. She now has a child with her billionaire boyfriend and probably will not even get 10 years.

[@ticker3132]

Guilty. Justice is served, i hope she does serious time.

[@Hollis_has_questions]

If women want equality with men, they should serve as much time as men if they’re found guilty on similar charges. She’s a con woman, not a frail.

[@heynowls3058]

John’s book is terrific. His podcast bad blood too. Look forward to the movies.

[@yiwenlin7119]

I read his book last night and now I want to switch to a journalism major.

[@tridenteiii8471]

Let her sit for 10 years in a prison 😨😰😱!!! She has done absolutely nothing for humanity and has only filled her wallet with billions because of her greed!!! 😈👿😈!!!

[@tridenteiii8471]

No no gif her 20 years

[@julieshelley9251]

Great work John, So chill and bright. I hope Ms Holmes does some time...SMH...She should have been guilty on all counts

[@epenesajennings4725]

Male or female, she lied for the glory.

[@FC-hj9ub]

Wonder if John and Holmes have ever met.

[@RodinThink28]

She was a contributing factor if not the sole factor in the suicide of Ian Gibbons

[@x13years]

Crazy they are debating no prison time.

[@mauricioweber8879]

Her “product” Was going no where, just a marketing wish…. But faking results made in other parties machines.. that is down right lying and cheating. Period.

[@factorfiction2847]

There is a big difference between tech companies and medical companies.

[@philiphavey]

It never would have happened Total Quality Management.

[@oprescue999]

while the judge is considering how long to sentence her he should read John Carreyrou's book about Theranos. She's evil

[@SPHATROLL]

Anyone here after The Dropout?

[@pretorious700]

Nobody ever "set her up to fail". That's a ridiculous way of looking at it. Young inexperienced female talking head...no surprise.

[@chillchester]

john carreyrou is my idol!!!!! wwe love you johnny!

[@1tonybricky]

just a vile individual, promising false hope for self gain lock her up, she won't change

[@leslieb2971]

Mercy + whiteness = Freedom. She will never see the inside of a prison.

[@anthonycaruso3688]

You must have been sleeping the past 3 years. They work against her.

[@JamesMullarneyIsAFraud]

How woke are these CNBC talking heads? Holmes was messing with patients lives. Not an app crashing.

[@sngs9565]

Thank you, Mr Carreyrou....As for Ms. Holmes, she would need to pay for her crime. What kind of message we are going to send if she is not? Also, this nothing, nothing got to do with Gender!!! Crime does NOT pay! Stop twisting the facts!

[@HumanAndroid18]

How is it not compelling. If the entire business was an intentional fraud than anyone doing business with her was intentionally frauded. Patients and Investors alike.....tf.

[@visibleinvisible4549]

7 is perfect ...

[@davidjma7226]

She was selling a concept, not a proven and tested actual product. Great concept, product didn't deliver.

[@jeannieluna3009]

Book throwing … Because she’s a woman ? Thats just stuff and nonsense. It’s due to it being medical.

[@sergioavalos9343]

Merece que le den otro premio pulitzer

[@ThomasDeLello]

Is it even possible that Elizabeth Holmes actually believed herself and what kind of psychosis is that if she did...? Or did she have a contingency plan to abscond with the money and live out her life incognito but missed her exit cue...?

[@GC-qe8vc]

It's narcissistic disorder and probably she does suffer from it, if not concurrent with other mental health issues. But this is not an argument to avoid the consequences of her actions, especially to the health of the patients that her start-up defrauded. In any case, her defense did not ask for a psychiatric evaluation...

[@ThomasDeLello]

@@GC-qe8vc Elizabeth Holmes must be the same kind of "crazy" as Bernie Madoff. Perhaps Elizabeth Holmes legacy should be relegated into nothing more than a case study in Mental Disorders. It would be less infamous for her that way. Does it really serve anything to incarcerate...? Really...?!

[@GC-qe8vc]

@@ThomasDeLello If the choice was between jail and involuntary commitment to a mental health facility, the latter would probably be better indeed. But the choice is now between jail and nothing. The US justice system is so flawed that such things are beyond them, so she probably will be able to set up her next fraud in 2-3 years' time. Mind you, unlike Maddoff, she put human lives' at risk (by giving falsified blood test results to unsuspecting patients), but she's not even being held accountable for this crime!

[@Joe-ij6of]

Patient's lives are at risk: well, you know, it's hard to prove that and some of this stuff can be tricky in court and, and, and, Rich People's money at risk: HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE THE FURY OF JUSTICE!!!!!

[@ian_b]

Girlboss gets caught in massive fraud, tries to blame a man for making her do it. Yay feminism.

[@beaulah_califa9867]

CNBC interviewers asked poorly formed, relevant, and interesting questions.

[@pretorious700]

CNBC is laughable.

[@zivaschmid]

A black person would be dead for stealing a candy, but Elisabeth holms is walking free since few years, shameful!!!!

[@Samuels-nz9em]

She is a blonde.

[@missmerbella]

Bernie Madoff got 150 years. Stop.

[@ZiggyMercury]

So, basically, the interviewer raises the belief that because Holmes is a woman, she shouldn't go to prison. Isn't it one of the most anti-feminist ideas one can have?

[@ak203]

Carreyrou wrote a splendid book but he has been lsot in the context of a trial. He simply doesn't know what he is talking about. And his podcast has been awful -- he hasn't brought in a single lawyer for context, or even experts. He's been on a downhill slide since the book.

[@Franciscasieri]

Sometimes hacks get lucky and are exposed afterwards Any English student with this info could have written this He's not a businessman

[@ak203]

@@Franciscasieri That's true of nearly all journalism. I still think eh wrote a good book, but everything since has been really bad.

[@bobrobert6600]

Let's go Brandon.,.#FJB

[@danielhoward755]

?