Bafang Hub VESC Setup - Let's Not Break Things This Time! Flipsky 75100 PRO V2 + Bafang G62

[@EBikeBuilder_]

UPDATED SETTINGS - hey guys i learned something, ERPM = RPM * pole pairs, so when entering the ERPM into motor detection, the open loop would be about 46rpm * 50 lets just say 2500 ERPM, and the sensorless ERPM I am now setting to twice that at 5000 ERPM. SO, the motor detection settings I am using for this 1000w bafang hub are now: Motor Power Loss 250W, Open loop ERPM 2500, Sensorless ERPM 5000, Motor Poles is 100

[@rymalia]

That’s cool that you can hot swap the cores like that, and not have to rebuild the wheel

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Yeah its nice 👍 easy to work on. Really its a 5$ nylon gear i was lacking. But a new motor works 👍👍 i knew i had a spare for a reason buddy. That clutch assembly on the other one is stuck on the axle, i still need to figure that out

[@rymalia]

The new one definitely sounds different, seems louder but also a different tone. Sorta reminds me of the synthetic sound coming out of some EV cars when you have it fully cranked

[@EBikeBuilder_]

another benefit of this motor shell swapping is you can take a 500W hub motor shell , and POSSIBLy pop a 750W or 1000W motor in it. As long as the motors come out of the shell on the same side. Like some motors come out on the drive side and some come out on the non drive side. And that freewheeling clutch inside these geared hubs is directional. So if you wanted to do a core swap. it'd have to be using a compatible one But its possible in many cases. The 500W motors just have a big air gap inside the motor shell. And the magnets and rotor / stator are not as wide. But motor shell is still the same 175mm or 190mm wide to fit a fat bike.

[@chesteryao]

I was using my 75200 pro v2 at 150 phase amps and 50 battery amps. Using a 500w nylon gear hub motor. Pushing 2500w. 30a field weakening. I did not strip my gears. What I did was tune my throttle down. I use polynomial with -30% throttle expo, 12% input deadband, and 0.5 seconds ramp up time. Which helps with my thumb throttle aggressiveness because I tend to smash the throttle a lot from a dead stop. No issues. But I was on a 48v battery. Not a 72v yet.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

i'm just being super careful. I ran that previous G62 motor with 90 or 96 phase amps on my phaserunner for 2 or 3 years. WIth a BBSHD cranking on the cassette splines for a couple years!! So that old G62 of mine and those nylon gears were totally old and thrashed, 15000 + or 20000+ miles on them for sure. In my experience 90 works fine never had a problem for years. And I had it set to 2500W to 3500W. and did upwards of 4000W. But the sweet spot is like 2kw to 3kw. and after that its a waste and heats up quick. If you are goin up a hill or maybe tugging cargo or something it can help to do a lot. BUt typical riding i only use like 1500W or 2000W most of the time. THanks for sharing your experience I will have to try to mess with the throttle and tune that down like i did with my BBSHD.

[@rufusirvin5279]

That was a wild ride, should have been on IMAX. A very good tutorial on G062 and VESC. Seems to me that the Grin had a bit more kick at the start. Those settings seemed to be bang on for the speeds you were getting. Speed just means more battery less mileage but you got there quicker. Would be nice if you did one like that on the Phaserunner and the Bbshd. I like that stile of video editing, well done.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

when I first got my G62 almost 2 years ago from Grin, they were saying 90 phase amps and 2000W, thats what I always had my Frankenrunner set to for the longest time. ANd its what it says in the blog post when grin originally announced the G62 sales. At some point Grin changed the default settings DOWN to 1000W, and 60A phase current. My G62 worked for 2+ years on 90 phase amps without issues. Then when i went to 100 and 105 with the flipsky the nylon gear broke quite fast. 75 Feels kind of weak to me compared to how I was running it at 90+ with the phaserunner. But I did make the motor current like 10 or 15 amps more with the Flipsky which is pretty significant. So maybe its possible to run at say 80 to 90 without worrying aboiut much more than nylon gears. And still having a pretty sweet ride

[@NoInfoFound]

thanks for the minimum flipsky + G062 setup.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

for sure bud Ive found some better settings I guess the ERPM is actually the mechanical RPM * pole pairs, so I guess in motor setup instead of 46 rpm open loop you would enter 46 * 50 or about 2500ERPM for open loop, and sensorless ERPM is 5000, then i am now using max current loss 250W when doing the motor detect, I have a video coming soon about this and ive updated the description on this video. But honestly Im not sure if it makes a big difference yet. It seemed to run fine either way. STay tuned Ill figure This thing out buddy!!

[@NoInfoFound]

@@EBikeBuilder_ I'm sure there's quite a few folks that might want to try the setup, I appreciate the efforts.

[@stevecumming6427]

Interesting as I have a Mars 500W geared hub motor & unlocked it to 40kph with their contoller. Took it to a hill today I thought it would never climb on throttle as I took the chain & chain ring off. It barely made it at 7-8mph @ the slowest but didn't heat the motor up. Big battery sag though for a few minutes. I need AWD on it so I got backup that got you home yesterday on tearing up your clutch.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

yea when you are crawling up that hill, it will be drawing a lot of current, battery will sag and pedaling can help immensely in those situations. IF your motor is just 500W it may be wound in such a way where its designed to run at lower speeds for extended periods of Time. But if you get say like a 750w or 1000w ebike designed to run faster speeds. they can tend to heat up if you are absolutely gunning them up a cliff and its not spinning at the RPM it likes!! the front motor can be a life saver thats for sure. Its happened so many times with me LOL. but if you arent always messing around with your motor and breaking things. it shouldnt be like a huge concern Haha just in my case very useful!!

[@rok9587]

Thanks for testing this out and sharing all the parameters! What I didn't quite get from the videos is torque and acceleration from standstill. On my 75100 I find it to be quite sluggish, which is a big letdown, unfortunately. I don't care much about max speed as acceleration. Which is strange - it has 2x more phase amps than my cheap chinese 35a controller. Yet, it has slower acceleration. Makes no sense to me. Maybe some other tweaks in the settings that I'm missing on?

[@chesteryao]

Thank you for explaining how you fix the throttle input from a dead stop. I had the same issue but I did something different. What I did was change the safe start to disabled in adc general. Then throttle mapping adc1 abs min voltage I put 1.2v at that helps with start from dead stop. But I will try your settings might be better than mine.

[@chesteryao]

@EBikeBuilder_ I try your setting It did not work for me, I took it down the road and the throttle just stopped working. Then after trying to play with the throttle it kicked in and almost threw me off the bike. I went ahead and changed back to my settings. No issues with mine.

[@FlyDrone46]

hello, please tell me, I have a new gear motor from MXUS GDR19FAT 1200w, I use it with a 66.6V battery and a Chinese controller Jrank 35A, when reaching a speed of 58km, the motor starts making strange sounds, although it can accelerate to 64 with a charged battery. I read on the forum that the problem may be that my controller cannot correctly determine the erpm of this motor. Is it possible to solve my problem with flipsky?

[@EBikeBuilder_]

geared hub motors tend to make a crazy loud sound when they are higher RPMs. it's possible your chinese controller is a square wave? they can sound loud and funny. An FOC controller like the flipsky is sine wave, and could be slightly more quiet. It's hard to say what the noise might be, but I think you're right, the controller could certainly have something to do with it, I would try anther controller if possible. Some of those controllers they have no errors no codes no nothing and its hard to figure out whats wrong.

[@FlyDrone46]

@@EBikeBuilder_ Many owners of this motor say that this motor works better in square mode, but I have two Jrank controllers, the first is sine wave 34-40A, the second is in square mode 40-50A. When working on the first controller in sine mode, it starts to make a strange sound only in third gear, on the second controller in second gear, maybe because high speeds are reached earlier. Does flipsky support different modes? Your bagang motor is also geared. I recorded a video of the controller working in square mode with this strange sound, can you watch it in shorts ?

[@ChrisOlin]

I don't think the sensorless settings apply if you're running the motor in FOC mode. I know Grin has a "hall start/sensorless run" setting, but even then I wouldn't expect sensorless settings to have any affect here.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

That could be true, idk what I’m doing. In the grin tech stuff, the sensorless start parameters always seemed to need tweaking even when you used hall sensor start? The autostart settings had a big impact on how the motor auto tune worked and it’s results which subsequently affect everything. If the sensorless start parameters rpm or current or delay were too low, you had to increase it. In Vesc you could be right , so what you’re saying is the sensorless rpm and open loop current boost doesn’t have any effect on what I was doing, I can’t say that i I know how to configure the rpm’s right, but it seems to run even with Vesc defaults

[@ChrisOlin]

@@EBikeBuilder_ I'm basing my take from how the settings are presented in the VESC Tool and a general understanding of sensorless vs sensored start. I suspect it was the changes you made in the minimum current value in the Advanced tab that made all the difference.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

@@ChrisOlini think you’re right, thanks 🙏 for pointing that out. The minimum current did seem to help. Otherwise if i barely hit the throttle , it would be making this humm ringing noise and trying to start but not quite starting

[@stevemusgrave3218]

If u change the tire size will it increase top speed like on other controllers? Thanks!

[@EBikeBuilder_]

VESC doesnt limit the speed so if you are talking about circumventing a speed limiter, there isn't a limiter. But in general, with electric motors the top speed is a product of the motor RPM and wheel diameter, so yes, if you use larger diameter wheels (or tires), its possible to go faster top speed. But you loose torque and acceleration since the larger wheel is harder to spin

[@stevemusgrave3218]

So if I had a 20 in tire and wanted to increase top speed what tire size would I put into the parameter?

[@EliBiton-w3b]

Hi👋 thanks for the vid maybe you could help me please. I have a flipsky 75200 controller on my bike. everything works fine for me except for one thing. when I move the bike backwards I can't give gas to go forward, the gas handle doesn't respond. it happens when im on a step hell and the bike is moving a litle bit backward becase i stop for a second. only if I come to a complete stop I can give gas . (Bicycles only have forward mode)

[@patrickoneill1011]

What about upgrading to the metal gear instead and keep the high phase amps?

[@chesteryao]

It will eventually wear out but will last longer than nylon gears. Gearless is the way to go if you want high phase amps.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

apparently if u upgrade to the steel nylon gear it can handle more phase amps, like 80 to 90 or beyond maybe 100. But then the parallel key / clutch key / woodruff key that goes between the recess in the axle, and the clutch assembly, can break. And its broke in my other G62 right now so I got the nylon gear and the broken parallel key double whammy. And its stuck on the axle due to the broken parallel key. So you can run higher phase amps. ANd get a metal gear. But then that parallel key can break. And i guess beyond that the clutch assembly itself can break, you can actually weld that, and then turn on regen. So IDK we will just try setting it up in a safe manner first, Lol. THen mess with that later.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

i actually like the nylon gears cuz its 5$ for 3 of them and its a lot cheaper than replacing the sun gear Or the ring gear, im not even sure how to get that ring gear off the shell of the motor its glued on there some how.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

and also btw. I did 90 to 96 phase amps on this motor for 2 or 3 years prior to breaking this nylon gear. Before this happened with the flipsky when i increased it to 100 and then 105 phase amps. So I think i may have found like the verge of the nylon gear's ability Lol. but I still have it set low for now until i get more gears in the mail. ANd I will set it back to like 90 or 100

[@stevecumming6427]

​@@EBikeBuilder_yes you found the racer's edge of pushing the envelope.

[@chesteryao]

I don't know if I caught in one of your videos but I notice you are only running 85% duty cycle? Shouldn't you be 95%? I am running 97%

[@EBikeBuilder_]

I noticed this today. and i asked big daddy elon chat GPT. and I've noticed when I give it full throttle unloaded its 100% or 95% duty cycle. But when actually riding on flat. max speed its like 80 or under 85% duty cycle. Chat GPT gave me a big long answer: In the context of a VESC (Vedder Electronic Speed Controller), the duty cycle refers to the fraction of time that the controller applies power to the motor during each cycle of the PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) signal. This modulation controls the amount of power delivered to the motor, thereby regulating its speed and torque. Here's a detailed explanation of why the duty cycle behaves differently under load versus no load conditions: Duty Cycle and No Load Condition: When the motor is running with no load (meaning there is minimal resistance or demand on the motor), the VESC can easily reach a 100% duty cycle because the motor doesn't need much current to maintain its speed. This is akin to running the motor in an ideal, frictionless environment where it can achieve high speeds without significant power draw. In this situation, the motor's back EMF (electromotive force) is low, and the controller can fully utilize the available voltage to reach maximum speed. Duty Cycle and Load Condition: When the motor is under load (e.g., when riding), it faces resistance such as friction, gravity, and air drag. This requires more torque to maintain speed, which translates to a higher current draw. As the load increases, the motor's back EMF also increases, which opposes the applied voltage. This reduces the effective voltage across the motor terminals, limiting the maximum duty cycle. Additionally, the VESC monitors various parameters, including current, voltage, and temperature, to protect the system. If the demand for current is high (as it usually is under load), the VESC might limit the duty cycle to prevent overheating or overcurrent conditions. This protective mechanism ensures that the motor and controller operate within safe limits. Voltage Sag: Under heavy load, the battery voltage can sag (drop temporarily due to high current draw). This voltage drop reduces the available headroom for the VESC to apply power to the motor. Consequently, the VESC may not reach a 100% duty cycle because it can't supply the necessary voltage to overcome the load's demands. Power Limitations: The VESC is designed to deliver a maximum power output. Under heavy load, the power (which is a product of voltage and current) required by the motor can exceed the controller's safe operating limits. To prevent damage, the VESC reduces the duty cycle, ensuring it doesn't attempt to supply more power than it can handle. In summary, when riding under load, the VESC limits the duty cycle to around 80% to protect the motor and itself from excessive current draw, overheating, and to manage voltage sag. Under no load, these limiting factors are minimal or non-existent, allowing the duty cycle to reach 100%.

[@chesteryao]

@@EBikeBuilder_ Thank you that makes a lot of sense. Now I am running on a 48v so I never reach max speed or rpm on my 650rpm max motor(qs205 50h 5T). Maybe that is why my duty cycle is at 97% load and no load. Maybe with a 72v battery it will reach that limit and the vesc will start to limit its duty cycle since it won't need all that power at high rpm.

[@dg9bfc]

my seeker 26 runs 38.58 with 52 v pack.. no moddings.. stock controller

[@EBikeBuilder_]

thas pretty good it must be a 1000w hub motor with a good controller, like 35 amps or something

[@dg9bfc]

@@EBikeBuilder_ dual motor.. 1000w nominal 25 Amp controllers... with single pack I got 60kmh.. with a 2nd battery in parallel 62kmh (lower voltage sag) repeat.. no moddings on controller done!

[@maniakfps249]

Motor pole 100 wtf

[@EBikeBuilder_]

geared hub is poles * gear ratio, there are 20 POLES, the gearing is 5 to 1, multiply 20 poles * 5 gearing = 100 effective poles

[@maniakfps249]

@@EBikeBuilder_ there are 20 POLES ? wtf magnes is 16