Bambu RFID HAS BEEN CRACKED!!! - Making Awesome 211

[@dustindavis6700]

Bambu Labs should sell RF ID tags that you can set peramitters for a third party filament.

[@ToddCopeland]

I suspect a large majority of people only buy Bambu filament because of the tags (or they _think_ the quality is better). So Bambu could really kill off their own filament sales if they did this.

[@Marcus_Caius]

@@ToddCopeland not sure about the reason why people would buy BBL filament but for me it's fairly simple. PRICE & Quality. - BBL filament from BBL $13.99 with free shipping. - BBL filament from local reseller $23.99. - Sunlu $17, Elegoo $18 from Amazon Prime - etc.. I get BBL filament within 5 days. I bought over 150 spools (PLA, PETG, ABS, TPU) since April 2024 and none ever fail. I call that quality. I don't give a frack about auto loading that's more laziness then anything. It take about 10 seconds to set filament info. Since the RFID feather is only from using an AMS, it is fairly simple to use the AMS Autofill. I never run out of filament during a print. This is my experience.

[@johnsathe2429]

While you cannot change the tag to your choice of filament, you can change your filament parameters to match the RFID tag. I have done this with a lot of my Overture filaments and it works really well.

[@blu_indi9333]

The standards that should be used from the get go is ISO standards for RFID. Regarding your industrial customers wanting the same material everytime, there is a reason why. They have RD specs to follow, the have prototyped, tested, and run production per the specs. If they are good at there jobs, they even created FMEAs and have created some sort of QMS. A change in material would require testing, sampling, customer approval (if required), and then changes to all documentation, purging old material out of the system, and maintaining a clean point to ensure no mixed parts. Its way more than just changing the settings in your slicer.

[@jackcoats4146]

I found whenever someone asks the same question the third time, I wrote a FAQ or web page on those, for a company where I worked. That is a great way to get rid of many questions and save a lot of people time. This was when I worked for an oil company back in the 1990s.

[@floridasaltlife]

Serious 3D people better read my comment to see the future !!! I was 40 years in the plastic business and Raw Material varies a "LOT" even within lot #'s. We bought a lot of large lots, truckload quantities were common and we often specified like lot #'s to minimize variation and even still we would sort by sequence #'s within the lots we brought in. We were very tight tolerance injection molders and charged a good premium for our precision. Our machines needed tweaking throughout the sequence #'s of these lots to maintain +/- .001" or .002" tolerances. All this to Say that BamBoo could be looking ahead to be able to vary their parameters programed into their printers real time even on same repeat materials by recognizing the differences throughout the lots and setting up their printers to optimize the roll of filament your actually install. This could reduce variables beyond what anyone else in the market could do... Think About it !!!

[@3DMusketeers]

we discussed something similar to this later on in the video, full feedback with the tags, but they would wear out fast, however if the average user could reflash them, you just clone it and go from there.

[@xkeithedgex]

Would be better to implement a filament diameter sensor in the extruder to provide this functionality

[@robertmartinu8803]

@@xkeithedgex It's not just about diameter. More like the viscosity, flow rates, fusing properties and such at certain exact temperatures. That kind of parameters would be useful to ensure a repeatable product. Think more in terms of "whats the average length/weight of molecule chains in this batch" - the diameter and roundness can be controlled quite well by the filament factory, but their feed stock might have variation beyond their control.

[@SianaGearz]

@@robertmartinu8803 Mhm unfortunately we don't have a good model for what to do with that data yet either, not that i know of? Like 3D printer firmware is, apart from pressure advance logic, optional input shaping (second order smooth motion planning), entirely trivial in principle, it just holds temperature and pushes the plastic pretty much.

[@Alpha-Alpha]

It’s working fine without it , and this variation isn’t causing issues for 3d printers……

[@roobtoob2]

I have a Bambu X1C, and I think it would be GREAT if I could take a spool of another brand of filament (take Creality CR PLA for example or just pick one), calibrate for it, and then store the material type, color, and flow rate to an RFID tag stuck on the spool. RFID tags are cheap enough. Then, the printer could recognize that particular spool again in the future if I remove it from the AMS and put it back later. I can do all that *manually* now, but have to redefine the parameters from my notes (or re-select the profile I saved) every time I remove and replace that spool. It would be great if I only had to do it once per spool (calibrate the K factor), write that info to an RFID tag, and have the printer recognize that spool on sight. I went out and bought a 2nd AMS, so at least I can keep eight spools loaded before I have to start swapping spools around.

[@JamynShanley]

I've said this in other threads, but they absolutely should sell authorized, re-useable RFID tags for $2-5 each. They could even tie the tags to your Bambu account/device's serial number if they're worried about mis-use by resellers. I'd spend $20 on RFID tags to match my preferred filament brands & colors.

[@shawnwhinnery1831]

Label makers exist

[@roobtoob2]

@@shawnwhinnery1831 I have a label maker - How do you propose a label maker would provide the same benefit as an RFID tag? You still have to store and reselect the saved settings when swapping spools around. The RFID tags do that automatically. I know that leaving flow calibration turned on will recalibrate for every print, but that only calibrates the first filament that sees the nozzle, and doesn't recalibrate all the filaments used in a multicolor or multi-material print. It also adds time, some waste, and a little more cleanup to each print.

[@andyspoo2]

It seems like a lot of work for very little benifit. I have a P1s with a Bigttreetech Panda. It takes seconds on that screen to select PLA, Green Generic and the generic setting has worked very well for every filament I have tried (PLA at least).

[@airheadbit1984]

57:07 KEY:VALUE with key:value new items can be added to the tags and updating the printer firmware will allow them to keep up.

[@Jerrie-Lenore]

I worked in industrial plastics... Having the material type is great, but the real magic would be if the batch MELT INDEX was available on the tag. We could actually use that number to adjust flow rates and adjust melt temperature.

[@Serenityindailylife]

I have a picture of me at age18 working on the hubble main chassis. I always said it was the most expensive background, i have since worked on the f22 raptor, the seawolf submarine and the X-37B space shuttle. I have pics of me in front of each of them...i have a pic from a month ago of me in front of the b21 im awaiting clearance so i can bring it home.

[@3DMusketeers]

Okay that's pretty darn cool!!

[@PeyoteSpyder]

So long as they don't restrict what you can use.

[@3DMusketeers]

they have not yet, at least when it comes to other filaments

[@filanfyretracker]

of course at the begining the mention of settings, I can understand at times why a big industrial machine might be locked in. I suspect they can only assure you of the structural properties if its extruded at x temp. I will say one thing an OpenRFID filament system could allow is keeping records of used filament like you said. My idea is that in an ecosystem like Prusa could be if you are using Connect maybe it would even be able to suggest a printer with enough filament for your job. On an XL could even have it auto suggest enabling spool rollover. Of course could also have Link directly talk to the slicer over LAN, And in sneakernet usage just have the printer generate say "Filament.cfg" or something on the flash drive and when plugged into the PC it would update the slicer on available material(s). 33:35 btw the QR code on a Prusa nozzle case opens their manual for changing a nozzle. how he mentions verifying filament and making sure its legit, this could find use case in fields like aerospace. You could prove that spool is from that mfg and as such matches the material data sheets you might require for a client to know what batch that plastic came from.

[@Wabbit0789]

Maybe having a USB handheld RFID scanner for your slicer? then it could work in the slicer its self and be available to every printer with out modding. That could be open source slicer will set the values for hot end, speed and bed temp. Then the multicolour systems can catch up. You could buy the scanner with the filament would be an idea. You guys can go with it, free idea

[@stevecade857]

You might as well use bar codes on the spools and scan it with your phone. No need for extra hardware. The RFID/scanner just brings no user interaction required.

[@lonewolfsstuck]

With the Kobra 3 Combo and the ACE pro having RFID AND filament drying, i think it would be a cool feature to have the RFID information transmit drying settings.

[@radicalbyte]

This is awesome, I have three Bambu (and one Creality) and if this goes somewhere then it might force Bambu's hand.

[@johnm.gerard1718]

My first printer was the XYZprinting De Vinci 1.0. With a similar type of system. I don't remember if that was just so the loading process was easier or what information was on their tags. It was also an inclosed printer one of if not the first consumer printers on the market. It could only print ABS and then an upgrade allowed for PLA printing. But way too hard to level the printer.

[@justinchamberlin4195]

The positive benefits of RFID tags certainly are intriguing, possibly even a major step to true push-button printing that still preserves the ability to use any filament instead of first-party filaments, but I'll always be suspicious of a printer that could refuse to print anything if the "wrong" manufacturer's filament is loaded. Sure, manufacturers may claim that they'd never do that, but I'd only put so much stock in those promises depending on the manufacturer (I wouldn't believe it at all from Bambu Lab and only would mostly believe it from Creality or even Prusa). I would like to see a little more info on just how not-open source the Prusa Core One is...there was a lot said in the intro video about being able to customize parts of the printer to our hearts' content, and people in the live chat were saying that they've even gone as far as to no longer require users to physically modify the mainboard to load custom firmware, but how locked down are we talking? Are we going to have to rely on, gulp, Creality to be the open-source leader in the mid-range printer market?

[@andreas.grundler]

As far as the Prusa Core One is concerned, Prusa has made everything open source in the past, e.g. with the MK3. This includes the STEP files for the prints, the CAD files for the printer itself and the Gerber files for the mainboard. The result was cheap copies from China, which of course isn't great for Prusa. With the Core One, they are a little more reserved. The printed components are only available as STL files and as far as I know they still want to release CAD files for the side panels so that you can create your own mods. However, the files for the mainboard and CAD files for the rest of the printer will no longer be available. The firmware is still open source. The company that currently offers the most open printers is Sovol with their SV08 and SV06 ACE for which they released CAD files and the firmware which is based on Klipper. But as far as I know no Gerber files for the mainboard either.

[@mtnjhutch]

So, am I right that a Bambu printer will not read a RFID from another manufacturers filament because the programmed “correct” signature is not present?

[@fredpinczuk7352]

Open RIFD Protocol is the way to go.

[@AndreRuiz]

Can you clone a complete actual tag, including the signature? You don't need to re-sign if you just want to create your own tags based on existing ones. That's some thing already.

[@jgone4856]

Yes you can. I just ordered some tags and will be cloning bambu tags

[@Slapbackjack]

I know nothing about 3d printing, I bought an X1C because it just works and the filament just works because of the RFID... as far I am concerned it is the only reason why I am even using a 3d printer. I don't really understand why people would dislike Bambu? They have blown the whole thing wide open for anyone to buy a machine and print their parts without needing years of testing and experience, what is not to like?

[@johnm.gerard1718]

I think this is a great discussion. I just ordered my X1C combo pack on the 120214 Black deal. I hope eventually other manufacture are able to use their filament with RFID tags. I use Matterhacker PLA filament because it is pretty cheep and seems to work well. I would hate to have basically only one manufacture of filament to choose from. I love the idea that a Manufacture could potentially test there filament on your machine certify that it works reliably with these settings and print a tag with the appropriate slicer information. To at least get you 90% of the way there. I have been trying to print for many years now on other printers and I currently use Simplify3D slicing software. There is a tone of setting in these slicers. Very confusing to know what to change and how much on any one setting. A great learning process but I could take, again 90% of the guess works away from me so I can just "PRINT", is or would be wonderful.

[@11THEFEZMAN11]

Seems to me that this could be solved with a license agreement

[@3DMusketeers]

Bambu won't allow it.

[@11THEFEZMAN11]

@ that’s what IP attorneys are for

[@LifeOfSins]

14:37 This might sound stupid but wouldn't it be better to start from scratch and develop your own rfid tag and make it so it has what you need as a filament supplier and what a maker needs and push that to every one and make it the standard and hopefully bambu falls in line.

[@3DMusketeers]

Working on it so it works with the current manufacturers is beneficial as those not crazy electrically inclined can still use it and such.

[@LifeOfSins]

@3DMusketeers It looks like what I was thinking, you are way a head and in the process. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@versus023]

How can drying a filament for too long can ruin it?

[@derpymcderp42]

VORON RFID support ???

[@3DMusketeers]

that would be SUPER cool!

[@andreas.grundler]

@@3DMusketeers I have heard that BigTree Tech's multi-material system (VVD) is equipped with an RFID reader and they plan to support as many filament manufacturers RFID tags as possible.

[@3DMusketeers]

that would be stellar!

[@MarkDeSouza78]

Is it possible to clone a bambu labs rfid tag? ie if you have bought a black pla spool from bambu labs, can you copy the rfid tag and put that tag on say an esun black pla spool? I am assuming bambu is not tracking that number of meters have been used for a single filament serial number and that the non-writable parts of an rfid tag are used as part of hash signature

[@3DMusketeers]

It is but the formulas of the filament will be different and it likely won't perform as the same. We dig into that some in the episode.

[@XA-JJKILLERs]

Its a rfid tag they can be rewriten on

[@layeredwork]

@@XA-JJKILLERs The problem is, they talked about it, the signature. You can't rewrite a tag with a valid Bambu signature.

[@XA-JJKILLERs]

@@layeredwork yup i got to that part lol

[@jgone4856]

​@@layeredworkrsa encryption is no joke

[@dh-no2ke]

If 3d printing is to move beyond being a hobby technology and become a “home appliance” then there needs to be a tag standard for the filaments. The 3D printers need to get to a plug and play standard so your average person doe need to know all the printing details. It would be great if filament manufacturers would get along develop a standard and advance the industry to an home appliance status.

[@FreedomToRoam86]

I love my Bambu printer that just works great without incredibly boring dumb tweaking every little flow rate or retraction amount etc. I literally would not get a 3 D printer until Bambu’s came out because printers needing full assembly and figuring out settings was just not worth the cost and aggravation. And Bambu filament works great. But no PCTG, or recycled, or certain colors, etc. would be nice to have RFID for my non-Bambu filaments

[@andrews6639]

Can you just use an old bambu rifid tag from an old spool onto a new third party spool? Just match up the color of course. Like finish a bambu spool of white, and get a spool of Elegoo spool of white and put the rfid tag onto that spool?

[@3DMusketeers]

Bambu filament is not the same as normal filament, they add stuff in it to make it high flow. But yes, in theory you could

[@jackcoats4146]

ultimaker has been writing RFID tags on their filament for years.

[@3DMusketeers]

stratasys was first

[@62twinturboImpala]

Sounds like the future will be like the computer paper printer business . Our ink at 3x the legit price take it or leave it. Priority is our cash cow.

[@Walterz930]

I am new to 3d printing I have been using ender 3 and there pc software would be nice to see the rfid tag or nfc tag be able to be read by there software and change settings also add the price to the filament

[@3DMusketeers]

ooh that would be nice, minimally a slicer integration..

[@Walterz930]

@ it’s always nice to know the price of the part you making for someone so integrating it into the slicer software where you scan the nfc or rfid plus it being able to set the filament type heat ec would definitely make it easier

[@3DMusketeers]

it would still require you to input what you bought it for though, no? because sale pricing etc?

[@Walterz930]

@@3DMusketeers In the creality slicer there is a place that you can input the price of your filament and once you slice a project it tells you the cost of that project so if the tags had the price of the filament on it could auto add the price of the filament to your slicer tool

[@johntetreault]

My Android phone CAN read the Bambu tags...it obviously fails because it doesn't know the encryption keys .. but it identifies the tag correctly as a Mifare tag and attempts to read it.

[@tutoralTV]

I could see Bambu staying quiet and not changing anything with the RFID reading until another AMS comes out and can read Bambu filament AND other RFID tags (like if Creality made an AMS and put RFID tags in their filament). Then it would be a negative to use their AMS like "well I can do this with this other other brand, why are you locking it down". I can see them doing something then but I doubt before then

[@ivansmith654]

What would Mitch say about the home made recycled filament that Uncle Jesse talk about on his channel?

[@3DMusketeers]

great question. I say not to trust that company until they are shipping

[@billsmith2308]

The concept is really easy. Code a spool like a UPC ! Done. If not in the machine, load in manually.

[@3DMusketeers]

Most machines don't have this built in though

[@oldplayer8025]

5 clicks (5-6secs) to update the filament int he app or the from the machine......

[@IntergratedEngraving]

Would need a printer maker that could put a dent in bambu sales by offering a truely open rfid system

[@moodberry]

Help me out here. Why RFID tags and not QR codes? What advantage does RFID give me that a QR code can't?

[@3DMusketeers]

QR needs to be read by a camera. NFC or RFID is best as the ability to read it does not require a camera

[@moodberry]

@@3DMusketeers Yes, there's that. But OTOH, low res cameras aren't that expensive, and I can think of an easy way to need only one camera to read all the spools in the AMS (hint: the camera moves along a track) If there was a QR code standard instead of a proprietary system like RFID the whole industry could benefit.

[@Serenityindailylife]

I take my old tags and stick them on a new roll of overture filament. It runs faster. I think they throttle back 3rd party stuff. My p1s never picks up the real bambu filament. It always has to manually fixed. They wont reslice because it would trigger an iso supplemental inspection in some cases. Iso is a big deal, it costs on average $100k

[@DoNotContactMe]

File a report with Bambu. I use 3 printers with AMS and it is very rare for them to not detect the spools.

[@michael2one]

Sounds like mac vs window/linux discussion. Could turn into something big

[@3DMusketeers]

I think so too!

[@SteveLaird]

Isn't Rfid filliment part of Bambo's lawsuit?

[@3DMusketeers]

Alas it is

[@UNgineering]

there's a simple solution - bambu can issue private keys to other companies, same as what apple does for signing applications

[@3DMusketeers]

If they wanted to they would have

[@UNgineering]

@@3DMusketeers I actually thought of a way that can be done in X1 Plus without involving bambulab: just verify the signature against pubkeys. This would be the process: 1. a company that makes filament writes their own RFID tags, 2. they sign the tag with their own private key 3. they publish corresponding pubkey 4. User (or X1+ dev) adds pubkey to the X1+ software (or the company can create a pull request to X1+ repo to add their pubkey) 5. X1+ reads the RFID tag, verifies the signature now it can say "this is authentic Bambu Lab filament" or "this is authentic Polar filament" and if it doesn't verify the signature, "this is a generic black PLA"

[@3DMusketeers]

but X1P is working with Bambu, so I fully doubt this would be possible. If you have a machine with the latest X1P though please give it a shot!

[@UNgineering]

@@3DMusketeers ah, if the prerequisite is Bambu being ok with it, then it might be problematic, although I'd be curious to know if they're against X1P identifying 3rd party filaments as [whatever] brand (obviously as long as they're not bambu).

[@3DMusketeers]

if you arent in the X1P discord, that would be the right place to ask I think

[@ridrugo182]

Has anyone tried a flipper zero?

[@3DMusketeers]

You can read with it but that's it.

[@Hangs4Fun]

It's sad to think about HOW much Bambu was able to start their company with from open hardware to open software, and yet they don't give shit back to the industry. RepRapwas about sharing to help evolve 3D printing at record speeds. Bambu benefitted from that but doesn't give back, pretty crappy character if you ask me

[@Jimmy2Bits]

A new standard should be created that all other manufacturers have agreed upon and Bambu should be pushed to play along or play alone

[@3DMusketeers]

OMG YES

[@DJ-Hollandica]

500 likes now keep it up plastic lovers

[@sibbeh]

DRM has no value, the data is the value for the consumer. All the data could be in an open format.

[@timo4463]

true :/ i mean i said it beforthey couldsell 10 tags for 5 bucks you can programm its still close source but you can use it

[@TimGray]

Bambu has been extremely stupid for not opening all this. I really hope the hackers go full speed and hack 100% of their stuff and release it all.

[@3DMusketeers]

their encryption around the signature process seems strong

[@Spliner69]

RFID on any filament should have never been proprietary.

[@OneIdeaTooMany]

Why does it need to be cracked? That's the question that always bugged me. I see no reason as to why the information needed to be encrypted other than to keep people buying their own brand of filament. Instead if they wanted money they should do a "Made for Bambu Labs" certification. Make vendors pay a small royalty. Probably more lucrative that way. Obviously I'd prefer neither of them but I don't think we'll get that.

[@3DMusketeers]

That would be ideal, and I absolutely agree. The thing that worries me is they could, in theory, lock it down to only their materials in the future.

[@JJFX-]

This is why the community is so great and why I'll still never buy a Bambu. They're impressive machines but they lock too much away behind their walled garden in an industry founded on sharing information. Once it became clear people would put up with it Prusa began tip-toeing down that road as well. I realize not everyone has time to painstakingly build and tune their machines and just need something fast and reliable, which is fine. If they're smart they'll realize this only makes their machines more attractive. They're fooling themselves if they think people will avoid other brands of cheap filament but this shouldn't have much of an impact in the long term on their engineering plastic sales. Hell they'd probably make more money selling an intuitive, customizable RFID tag system people can just buy.

[@rsilvers129]

Bambu works with all filament so no reason to not buy it.

[@JJFX-]

@rsilvers129 That wasn't at all what I was saying. I just meant letting people use the RFID tag system with their own filament, which is the point of hacking it.

[@jerrygrimes8813]

The RFID is a "nice to have" for me. I have filament from other mfrs, and just tell the AMS what it is (usually Generic and the material type). It takes 3 or 4 button presses, and then I select the correct thing in my list, those that I've bothered to calibrate. For the "appliance operator" skill level, using Bambu's presets for both process and RFID filaments is a huge simplification. They just work. For many, that's worth a small premium. Anyone using "exotic" filaments, or maybe colors Bambu doesn't offer, probably has the skills not to really benefit much from the RFID capability.

[@waynewells4885]

Just watching this video for about the third time and towards the end you talk about gases, particulate coming off of materials. I'm a few steps ahead of you. I have various sensors I call environmeltal sensors and MCU's that shoot that sensor data to a database and I can tell you, categorically, you don't want to be sucking the fume laden contents o a Bambu Labs P1S into your lungs when you take a peek at your print. That stuff is toxic

[@MaheerKibria]

This guy does not really seem to a deep understand RFID, or encryption. So first, Mifare can be read and written by a cell phone. Mifare is a type of NFC. Cell phones can read any NFC/RFID that is in the 13.56MHz frequency. The rest of it is just software. Next the reason you sign the tags is data integrity. I want to know that the settings are verified by someone. It's the same reason we sign software or anything else. Even open source software is often signed if you want mainstream adoption. I would want the signature so I know that the settings that the tag is saying are accurate. If the tags or reprogrammable or even if they aren't; nothing is stopping a bad actor from changing the tag from say PLA to ABS or PETG or any other filament and giving someone a really annoying time. Bambulab extending their firmware to take other signatures is not hard. They would become a CA and issue certifcates to people that asked and then to verify the signature you would check to see if the certificate and the signature is valod. As for end users signing their own tags, they could do that today. Mifare tags can be written from a cellphone. Bambulabs could easily provide the certs so you could sign from the phone.

[@3DMusketeers]

They could, but they won't.

[@mikepeterson8663]

I have an absolute hatred for sd cards the most useless form of storage for anything hate them all of the twenty that don’t work.

[@3DMusketeers]

microdrives have entered the chat ;)

[@erinklein4144]

@@3DMusketeers - and CF holds the line

[@SianaGearz]

@@3DMusketeers Which microdrive, the Sinclair QL Microdrive? Oh you mean IBM Microdrive. Nah the Sinclair is worse. Imagine a Learjet or 4-track magnetic tape cartridge which has been shrunk to a thumb size which has a spliced 5m long loop of tape folded over itself which cycles every 8 seconds - the friction and tension is so high that it keeps stretching the tape continuously. Data often survived for minutes.

[@CitizenFortress]

I was like, "Oh this should be interesting". Then i saw this was a live stream and the video is friggin almost 2 hours long. Nah bru, make a wayyyyy shorter video please.

[@3DMusketeers]

It is interesting, that's why it's so long, but with the latest Bambu firmware update, all this is moot anyways alas.

[@3dPrintingMillennial]

Now if only we can unlock these $300 ABS cartridges

[@3DMusketeers]

from who?

[@3dPrintingMillennial]

@3DMusketeers Stratasys

[@3DMusketeers]

gotcha, there are companies out there that do this. Check out 3DX Tech, they have a whole line that are stratasys compatible. :)

[@josephgauthier5018]

Dont forget to get him in touch with BigTreeTech!

[@RandomMiscShit]

Game changer. My biggest concern with my p1s is Bambu deciding to lock the printer/AMS With their own filament similar to stratysys. (I hate stratasys printers for that reason, sucked buying parts for them).

[@rsilvers129]

Bambu doesn’t lock it to their filament! They only use RFID for user benefit.

[@3DMusketeers]

currently they do not lock you out, but that can be something that could occur.. Likely, no, but possible, yes.

[@jimmanis6717]

There are a lot of filament profiles in Bambu studio as well. Nothing locks you from using any brand. It's just a good way to get to printing reliable parts without tuning each brand/type/color/ batch or lot numbers. It's honestly just a good system and the prices for refill rolls is extremely competitive and has much less waste than a new spool every time you get a spool.