bang chan was wrong and I don't feel sorry for him...

[@everglowup]

the 7 dislikes in the first 3 seconds, thank you haters for waiting patiently. ~kisses!

[@CheShiny]

I feel like there are some people on the internet who dislike every single video no matter if they think it's good or not lol

[@littlelou050]

@@CheShiny there must be lol

[@Eunwoo29409]

Stays don’t have brain

[@CheShiny]

@@littlelou050 Literally there's no way there's not. Btw that also goes for the opposite, there are most likely people who like every single video, no matter how bad it is

[@armyzngami]

Even though I think Chan didn’t mean this on purpose Your right Respect ❤ Idols need more protection

[@skazooz2734]

STAYS we've learned a lesson here. When we 'create' issues, it's our idols who have to suffer for it. So lets just enjoy the content Skz is giving us and not be problematic anymore. Remember that whatever we do, it indirectly affects the members, so lets make it a positive effect rather than what took place this time.

[@pix1943]

Bfr, Chan created the issue by talking about it, Stays just made it worse. Ofc not saying it’s wrong to share his opinion, but like the video said, you should know when to speak and when not to speak.

[@megsmacgregs320]

@@pix1943 okay BUT Bang Cham isn’t the only one who’s talked about this and unlike other idols, he actually kept his opinions overall vague. Someone shared screenshots and videos recently of other idols calling out specific groups and people for being disrespectful but they aren’t being called out? I wonder why, maybe it’s cause Bang Chan is a huge celebrity and a leader, part of one of the biggest boy groups in Korea, that’s why they’re calling him out. It’s because Stays and Dives are just like Blinks and Army’s, they can and do act toxic. It isn’t his fault people took his words and made it into something else. Alls we’re teaching him is to be silent and complacent and I don’t want that for him

[@pix1943]

@@megsmacgregs320 He’s not the only one, you’re right. He didn’t name drop anyone but he did say Paris Music bank and KCon (Which IVE wasn’t even there for) and since half of the idols there were his friends, fans decided to play detective and narrowed it down to 3 groups and unless you can actually give me proof of other idols calling out specific groups I’m not gonna believe that lol. He had these types of problems before where he was vague and that lead to the problem escalating, he should’ve known better the second time. Also, we’re not teaching him to be silent, we’re teaching him when and where he should talk about personal problems, fans are not friends/family as a celebrity he shouldn’t be sharing everything with them, fans in general are just crazy theres barriers between idols and fans for a reason.

[@megsmacgregs320]

@@pix1943 if I could find the post where someone showed other idols calling out other idols, I would but I’d be beating a dead horse because that’s probably 100% impossible for me to find. From the post, the only recognizable group I saw was Ateez. I just think Bang Chan is being attacked for no reason

[@pix1943]

@@megsmacgregs320 Ateez called out a dance group for plagiarism, that’s a valid reason. But calling someone out, out of pettiness is different.

[@itoo4884]

I hate the fact that this is clearly just an international stan problem. Our obsession is so embarrassing sometimes. Tbh, we're not ready for the unfiltered idols. When we get it, we interpret their statement as a mission we were lucky to hear and take action.

[@carmen_chuuu5224]

Actually there were a bunch of articles from Korean netizens about how he shouldn’t have said that

[@LaurenPebble]

@@carmen_chuuu5224 exactly. The international stans are the ones that interpreted his words as reason to hate other idols.

[@slaypa]

@@carmen_chuuu5224 there's like 20 articles on naver about it and none of it defend bangchan 😭😭

[@itoo4884]

@@carmen_chuuu5224 Yeah, of course everyone agrees with that. I mean the response tho. Knetz are not out here bashing IVE like that.

[@jisvngstt]

I love Chan sm bc he has such good and genuine livestreams and and as a stay, I love watching them. It's always int fans who will start something like omg it's so annoying tf Chan shouldn't be the one apologising, it should be the stays who starting bringing up IVE even tho Chan didn't mention anyone. We can never have good things, someone will always have to ruin it ofc

[@serinemadoui8675]

kpop is not ready for idols opinions, they either bash them for it or use it as a weapon to bully others

[@abiodunade8242]

That’s exactly why it needs to happen. Change doesn’t occur peacefully and that’s the truth of the matter

[@twilightdream]

Exactly

[@Mandombb]

@@abiodunade8242yess!! Let’s wait to see which innocent group is going to get dragged again!!!😍

[@Visual_Gene]

Honestly

[@animegirlie7119]

Not really. Especially when stuff is political. It isn’t always best to voice your opinion. Be you a idol or a regular citizen. Ppl need to learn how to censor themselves no matter what.

[@lunaticrose13]

You made some valid points about the state of fandoms. Fandom culture is extremely toxic on all sides. But I disagree about your opinion on Bang Chan and his ultimate responsibility. The reason Bang Chan is so real is because he is honest, something idol companies beat out of you before you even have a chance to debut. Bang Chan is known for breaching past the fucked up red tape of K-pop and being honest. fandom toxicity and it’s consequence should not deter him. That’s why he is a breath of fresh air and as a Stay I will not make any apologies for Bang Chan’s comments because he has every right as a idol within the industry to voice them, however also as a Stay, people need to really reflect on their reactions and learn to think critically before spewing nonsense and insulting anyone.

[@gyebiantwi4314]

SPITTING FACTS😌

[@moodzzforwoodz00]

true! not a stay but i absolutely adore and respect Chan for his thoughts and how he put up his opinions among the industry and he shouldn't be made feel any less coz he shared an opinion of his without hurting anyone. it's the fandom culture that sometimes sucks

[@gyebiantwi4314]

@@moodzzforwoodz00 yea...sad when u think abt it.

[@Smirksoo]

Exactly

[@mordecaiissad8529]

As a stay i think this is a bit parasocial. We know Bang Chan knows how to keep his mouth shut when he wants to. We know he has lied and refused to discuss things because he knows how stay will react. That being said he also has moments where he makes choices that get the fandom going. He has been in the industry for years, he chooses what he wants to talk about and focus on with stay. I don't know what he wanted to accomplish with this one. What he expected the end result to be? What he expected stay to take from this? He effectively went and told his adoring fans someone (multiple people even) were rude to him and hurt his feelings. Focusing on the tone also didn't help, from a perspective of most stays imagine someone not being the most enthusiastic to greet Bang Chan, the disrespect, the audacity. I don't see how this couldve had any other conclusion than stays trying to figure out who is the "evil" that disrespected and hurt Bang Chan, undirected anger that he was hurt looking to be unloaded on someone. He's young and his emotions sometimes get the better of him, and I would assume this is one of those. He also doesn't seem to know how to redirect his fans when he says stuff like that. He messes up. Such is life.

[@iyainorangsakitjiwa1803]

I mean: BoA love them. SNSD Taeyeon considered IVE as Nolto family. SNSD Yoona covered Kitsch dance. SNSD Hyoyeon’s mom is a fan of Karina and Wonyoung. SHINEE Key is a multifandom GG president so he’s definitely included. HaHa said that Wonyoung grew to be not just beautiful but great manners as well. Comedian Shin Guri said that Wonyoung is so adorable irl and she stans Wonyoung. NMIXX Bae biases Yujin, NMIXX Haewon sang to Kitsch. Super Junior Heechul said IVE and LeSserafim came to his waiting room back stage to greet him. Simple logic, if IVE are really disrespectful, they would be cancelled since long time ago. Senior idols, current idols, and South Korean people love them. It’s just that International netizens use IVE as gen 4th punching bag. Can’t believe how dumb it is that people believe evil-edited videos on social media more than seniors who have worked and met IVE in real life.

[@dollydoie]

Music Bank staffed complimented how hardworking and genuine Wonyoung is and Gaeul bowing to the host in the middle of their performance. honestly they just want to hate ive for no reason at this point

[@iyainorangsakitjiwa1803]

@@dollydoie lmao I found a Stay who be like “Music Bank staff could’ve faked his opinion about the girls.” Like, THIS DUMB B HOW LOW CAN YOU GO? And you’re exactly right! IVE is 4th gen punching bag right now AND ironically the hates come from girls. Like, women support women is just bullsh!t atp

[@ccsbm208]

It's crazy how people who have actually worked with ive go out of their way to talk about how polite they are yet koreaboos who have never set foot in korea watch a few tiktoks and think they know everything.

[@iyainorangsakitjiwa1803]

@@ccsbm208 and it’s mostly oppaurs’ fans who tries to discredit IVE

[@Jonas7x7]

THIS IS SO TRUE!, the whole IVE is disrescpecful hate train is fueled by international stans that think they are koreans (koreaboos), IVE is one of the most popular and talked about groups in Korea and the way there isn't a single news article or video of KOREANS critizacing them for being rude and disrecpecful really tells you something. KOREANS opinion about their culture ------> koreaboos opinion about korean culture.

[@kawaragi17]

istg he knows what he is doing

[@broom9155]

People forget that platform comes with responsibility

[@tolanisimpson5360]

YESS!!!

[@oli-v-e6429]

"Everyone wants a piece of you, and they want to get that piece by ripping you apart to shreds" THIS

[@brindamitra2494]

💯

[@bluaezul]

This reminds me when he said something like "someone betrayed me.... you guys know who" and then he had to clarify that he wasn't talking about Woojin, because the fandom went to attack him. Basically, if you know that it's gonna be controversial and a lot of strangers are gonna take it seriously, don't talk about it. Also, it's really personal, and as I already said, his fans are *strangers*. Keep it private, nothing good is gonna come from it.

[@jadesweetbutton]

Literally that incited them to falsely accuse him of SA and bullying and almost killed him. Woojin who Literally gave them the clothes off his back, who trained them vocally, and supported them emotionally.

[@Sharonsworld2003]

No becuz why would he say something like "you know who it is" to a bunch of random people who will try and link it to anyone, further hurting innocent people

[@bluaezul]

@@Sharonsworld2003 IKR, it reminds me those youtubers who have fights and be like "I'M NOT GONNA GIVE NAMES BUT YOU PROBABLY KNOW WHO IT IS" and make a whole video about that drama... or a live on instagram. It just doesn't make any sense. You don't want to give names, you don't want to talk about it, but you still talk about it¿?¿?¿? make it make sense💀

[@cheesecake3680]

Mmm… we’ll I mean I can talk about if he wants but I do kind of agree he shouldn’t have said you know who it is if it wasn’t about woo jin 🤡

[@jadesweetbutton]

@Cheesecake🍰 Taking advantage of somebody's NDA and having a bigger platform knowing that they can't (literally can't) explain themselves is malicious. That's the thing with him, he throws shots vaguely and then to protect himself from being sued for defamation he later says "that's not who I was talking about". It's a pattern

[@dualityamv6295]

No because honestly, I think Chan forgets how much power he holds when it comes to Stay. I love Chan, I really do, but he really does need to think before he says anything.

[@Nameless_mixes]

I said the same thing ~2 months ago. Stays called me a hater. Told me the world would be better without me. And said that I should shut up when I issued concerns about this exact thing happening. And look at where we are now. Stays need to understand that there are differences between loving someone, idolizing them, and obsessing over them. You can love someone and want them to do better. Just like how we love Chan but want him to be more cognizant of what he says because of how his words get misinterpreted.

[@ncteno]

ESPECIALLY since there's some savior complex going on somewhere here. a lot of stays think they owe their life to chan because he saved them at one point, and that shows in how they attack anyone that questions him. it's so icky im sorry

[@Wlhwo]

THIS. He forgets and becomes too comfortable in the lives. But yet again the thing is, he is VERY aware his words have consequences. For example, he'll complain about not being able to do this or that. Then what ends up happening is the fans complaining, emailing jype to let them rest. A week later he's on live saying "don't harass the company, I know my body....." When he mentions personal things of course the fans will react.

[@arinontop143]

Yeah, same i really really do love chan. But i feel like a lot of things have been happening in his lif e and he just kind of like started talking about it, i bet he does regret it now. I know this cauee ive done similar things, like oversharing. I feel bad for both chan and Ive, the toxic so called delulu stays should stop

[@arinontop143]

​@@ncteno mhm, chan also did help me in a time. But i could never just show hate to a random group bro thats messed up these toxic stays

[@skramzbehavior]

i agree with basically everything you said in the video except for one thing- if your main point was that chan is in the wrong because he understood the possible effects of his actions and still did them, i think that’s fair- i personally don’t think he knew it’d be taken out of context (considering the dozens of “””””risky””””” things he says that DONT get taken out of context all the time) but it’s a very reasonable thing to say- where i disagree is when you said chan can’t portray honesty because fanbases in general aren’t ready for it- OBVIOUSLY they’re not, but i don’t think there’s any way for people to learn that this is a horrible thing to do if they aren’t exposed to the consequences. fans aren’t going to magically have a change of heart- the change requires a catalyst of sorts, and i think that idols need to start being transparent FIRST in order for their fans to see how taking things out of context harms the people they “love” so much (and therefore stop the behavior). as for the second half of the video, bowing as a whole needs to be deconstructed in korea. i say this as a korean- it’s so fucking unnecessary and weird and even IF ive didn’t bow as much as they “should have” it really does not matter.

[@skramzbehavior]

also since most of the people criticizing ive for their etiquette are not koreans please just stop it godbless the MAJORITY of people in korea don’t use 90deg bows at all anymore

[@ally-22]

i remember leaving a really ignorant comment here but i actually got to think about what i said and realised how wrong i was, that made realise how important it is to actually listen to different perspectives

[@Clockatsevenohseven]

Good on you. It is a difficult thing to do.😊

[@d1gital.ang3ll12]

K-POP IDOLS ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS,THERAPIST OR PARENTS IDOLS ARE MEANT TO BE PARASOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS

[@samcarmen]

Chan is just too comfortable with stays. It’s not even an idol thing, it’s a parasocial relationship thing. Act relatable all you want, but once you start treating millions of people you will never meet (concerts don’t count) like they’re your friends, that’s when delusions arise

[@nomiedc]

True! I get that he wants his fandom to feel like their close friends. But he should be professional and be well aware, there's something to discuss with your fans and things that you can't 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@samcarmen]

@@nomiedc exactly, like if he has a problem with younger idols not showing respect, he should address it with them, not his fans. What are they going to do except go on a witch hunt to find who hurt their fav? I love him so much, but sometimes he really needs to be fr

[@masterofthebaiters]

@@samcarmen THIS ILY FOR THIS

[@samcarmen]

@@masterofthebaiters because as much of a hard pill that may be to swallow to some people, fans are not an idol’s friends. We just can’t be when we’ve never met an idol for more than maximum an hour outside of content

[@masterofthebaiters]

@@samcarmen exactly that’s what I’m saying

[@gusten1614]

Im sorry but u stays who are writing essays in the comments trying to defend him gotta stop. Chan is in the wrong, sure he can rant about things BUT when the rant is about other groups/idols that is where u stop. As a kpop idol himself he should know how toxic and obsessive kpop stans can be. And it annoys me that some stays are trying to make him look innocent when he is clearly in the wrong...

[@gusten1614]

also u guys who are saying "oh but it was dives who started making speculations" PLS sure maybe some dives did but it was clearly majority obsessive-stays with their hero complex.

[@kkureali]

i agree, i wish kpop fans wouldn’t take things out of context but we can’t fix it, and i think chan has realized after all this cont (with chans room shutdown fan trucks etc) that his fans aren’t his friends.

[@epiphanikii]

fr and why do they gotta right an essay ☠️ 1-2 sentences is enough 😭 I’m a stay but Chan needs to be aware that he is a public figure. I hope he learns from this 😢

[@nayapeep]

Now when did he talked about a 'group'?

[@thesimple1818]

if you really thought the person in question was a teen it just makes it worse, saying things like "a certain someone at this specific event didn't show me basic manners" is going to start a witch hunt, doing that to a teenager with the intention of "teaching them a lesson" is wrong in this climate of cyberbullying. he acted like he was spilling tea so he must have known it would cause drama to say this about an individual, not saying the name after saying everything else is just a cop out, and it made things worse as stans just made speculate and persecute based off a vague story

[@gg_lamb2422]

I do think it was not smart of him to say that but i do think that if he truly wanted the drama to happen he would not write an apology for it, he would just let it happen

[@8luvbug]

​@@gg_lamb2422he wrote the apology cause him and his group started getting dragged. Knets were not on his side this time and he waited 10 days to apologize when all the damage had been done

[@gg_lamb2422]

​@@8luvbug the vid happened on May 14th (late night) and he wrote the apology in the morning of May 17th.That's roughly 3 days not 10. So no it wasn't when all the damage was done as you're stating it was when ppl started talking abt it and he realized his mistake.

[@de341f6]

This is a pretty long winded way of saying: the problem is STAY, especially considering that SKZ isn't even that popular in Korea to begin with, and it was actually a lot of international fans (who make up the majority of Skz's fanbase to begin with) who were hating on IVE. IVE is well loved by the GP in Korea and seeing a bg's fanbase hate on them really pissed a lot of people off, which is likely why JYP felt the need to make Chan address what he said in his statements.

[@pix1943]

Honestly I’m so tired of international fans getting angry for someone else when that person isn’t even offended, the bowing thing is so bs lmao. Also I wouldnt say Stays alone are one to blame, yes the majority of the fault is the fan base, but Chan is also at fault. Ofc he should be able to share his opinion, but he’s a celebrity, you shouldn’t be sharing everything especially since he should know something like this would be controversial.

[@ayanobadass949]

​@@pix1943Fr lmao

[@justsomeone6517]

It's kind of hilarious. Ive is super popular in SK. Shows how much THEY care about their supposed "disrespect". Yet international fans are so mad about it.

[@Siimplybella_]

I believe it's 50%/50% I think Chan should be aware of how his fandoms reacts to things from previous scandals ect. Yet kpop fans need to stop twisting things, but tbf he needs to be aware that most of his fans or 13-15 yo which isn't necessarily bad but because they haven't matured yet they may take things differently and may start making assumptions.

[@nutella1757]

I know this video is old but the comments are so strange to me. This is a grown man. Someone with a fan base of millions of obsessed kids/young adults. It's not crazy to expect him to be mindful of what he tells his audience. It's basic PR knowledge to not disparage your celebrity peers.

[@Nat_0218]

Kids is in the name, so they treat these grown men like children

[@zyx1qlz]

@@Nat_0218 lmaoo 😭

[@rheaamaro9932]

Free speech, everyone. He is entitled to express his disappointment about the greeting. No if, no buts about it. Chan cannot control how others behave. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him saying on his channel how he felt. It makes him human. He is a human, young man and not some puppet. What he stirred up is what needs to be stirred up because silencing people is never the answer. Who are we to judge him? He is not responsible for others action. For him to have to apologize for strangers’ actions is ludicrous. Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own actions and stop looking for a scapegoat.

[@woojinin_gotunu_ye]

The problem here is that his feelings that he shares with stays hurts other innocent people, which he failed to be aware of. And mind you it’s not the first time that this happened.

[@wavzone]

Nobody is saying they want idols to be silent, lol. Did you even watch the video?

[@Sub-0o]

@@wavzone obviously they didn't and don't plan on watching

[@SE0LARZZ]

@@woojinin_gotunu_ye how has his feelings hurt anyone else? he didnt say any names. other idols have said the same thing about newer groups being more disrespectful so why is it an issue when he does it?

[@woojinin_gotunu_ye]

@@SE0LARZZ simply because he knows that his fans are obsessed with him and take every word he is saying too seriously which causes other innocent people to get hurt (which happened already 2 years ago with woojin!!) and thats why he is responsible for this situation. And trust me every other idol who would’ve caused this whole drama would get treated the same as Chan. He has a huge fanbase and should’ve known better and be careful with the way he is sharing his feelings.

[@mj-ff3xv]

Ngl so many people are so easy to brainwash. Chans opinion shouldnt change the way people think about something. People nowadays cant think for themselves

[@v_doll]

10:10 Oh God I remember this. I thought it was so weird for him to get so heated and talk about it for so long since realistically we don't have any idea of what actually happened. We don't even know if Woojin really left the group on his own or got kicked out so him talking about it like we understand the whole situation to the same extent he does was... weird. It was after Woojin was proven innocent of EVERYTHING too, but of course tons of people started again with their little "He bullied them and I have proof!!!!" videos. I'm all for idols expressing themselves but you'd think someone who's been in the industry for as long as Chan would understand he can't just say anything with no consequences. You don't see Woojin bitching about being associated with skz even though he's in a much worse position than they are.

[@clevanterskz]

As someone who has seen numerous posts about OT9 and how they miss Stray Kids as 9 and wish Woojin never left.. I can understand his frustration. All of SKZ have been adamant on how they’re an 8 member group. The departure of Woojin I still find sudden and questionable.. I’m not gonna state my opinion because the main point is.. whether they left on good terms or bad terms, being reminded about them as 9 can sting. And if I remember correctly, Chan wasn’t heated at all. He looked up Stray Kids concert dates. He was scrolling and clicked on a website that had them as 9. All he said was “let’s use newer photos please”. He calmly said that he understands that not everyone knows, but asks us to use OT8 photos. That’s literally it. I wouldn’t call that “bitching”. Chan clicked on another website and it also had an OT9 photo. He was probably just annoyed because it’s been years yet the websites are using old photos.

[@v_doll]

@@clevanterskz aww I'm sure he'll pick you someday

[@clevanterskz]

@@v_doll I don’t want him to pick me but thanks

[@LovelyKissess]

Exactly. You don't see any group complaining about being ot/Anything after losing a member Ikon BTOB Monstax BigBang Exo G-idle Nmixx Onf Onlyoneof Winner Not even the rest of Straykids do so. It kind of makes you wonder

[@8luvbug]

​​​@@clevanterskz It's not what you say but how you say it. He clearly sounded annoyed

[@SAnn1747]

Fans will respect idols true thoughts if you keep your fandom in line. Stop being afraid to scold your fans.

[@mairalaurence8283]

Well said

[@tolanisimpson5360]

EXACTLY!! If those fans turn against you when you hold them accountable for their toxic behaviour, they were never your fans anyway in the first place.

[@SAnn1747]

@@tolanisimpson5360 well said. When I started listening to kpop. The BTS and Blackpink fandoms, literally were out of control. Meanwhile the group got along with each other. They keep missing the big picture and it’s for kpop in general to break records worldwide… no matter what group or individual gets there. It’s all for money anyways… the fandoms need to chill out. They act like they own them. Only the idols can put them in their place!

[@jackiearnolds]

Thank you for saying what I was thinking better than I could articulate, I completely agree with you on all those points. He should be complaining to his friends over drinks, than he can share it to his hearts desire. He needs to be more midful of who he is speaking to: not friends or confidents, but immature and ruthless fans that will hold onto his words like gospel and use it to tear others down. I think he wished he had a matture fandom that could deal with the whole thing casually and with grace, and some fandoms can do it, but he doesn't. Stays have proven time and time again they can't be trusted like that, so he can't share things like that. It's sad he can't be fully real, but it's his own fandom's fault for being like that.

[@ea9504]

What I found is that alot of the people who accused wonyoung for not bowing properly aren't even Korean but I find that they like to take things and run with it if they hear if you don't bow it's disrespectful they will attack idols themselves even if it's not Thier culture and that's why this situation happened people take things and run with it without looking into it it's honestly so annoying that's why I was cringing throughout this video it's honestly so annoying

[@Moon_face1]

Im also a stay but I also don’t understand how other stays could be so clueless and disrespectful!! It’s just crazy

[@bleeblublo6561]

Chan should learn when to speak and when not to speak, he’s old enough already that’s all

[@yjungwon]

Huh?

[@bleeblublo6561]

@@yjungwon Huh

[@ashaiscool]

Um what happened to freedom of speech. U sound very controlling.

[@bleeblublo6561]

@@ashaiscool speech comes with responsibility when you’re an adult, especially when you have the power to influence an audience…you sound very immature

[@bleeblublo6561]

@@ashaiscool there’s a very clear difference between “controlling” and being a responsible person

[@JH-eg8yk]

Chan having an opinion isn’t wrong. Chan continuously voicing his opinions to fans under a climate he knows full well is abusive which consequently leads to other idols getting bullied, is. He knows what actions/attitudes his words will insight. Thus, he has a responsibility to be tactful with what he says, how he says it and ultimately, how many times he brings it up.

[@raincandy3]

"But oppar is NEVER wrong!" energy is strong

[@jadesweetbutton]

Real

[@op_timusprime]

No one is saying that, what people are saying though is why does chan have to apologized for stays mistakes/actions??? He was respectful and he also didn't say anyone. I find it weirder how you guys would rather silence an idol than take accountability for your own actions. Like chan did not force you to wake up one day and start hating on ive, only you can decide that.

[@op_timusprime]

@@jadesweetbutton I see you've been in every comment section hating on chan.

[@jadesweetbutton]

@@op_timusprime telling the truth, you all are just too delusional

[@op_timusprime]

@@jadesweetbutton saying "real" isn't the truth, it's a dislike or hatred you have towards chan for that woojin situation. Which is in the past, let it go

[@choiavenue]

wdym u dont feel sorry for him...? the death threats and hate he got .... u dont feel sorry? i genuinely dont think it's his fault and he isnt wrong either. whats wrong is stays/toxic fans taking what he said and ran with it. he said whats true and he also didnt need to apologize. im not a chan stan or stay but like................. ayo????

[@raincandy3]

Watch until the end and you'll know exactly what she means by she doesn't feel sorry

[@jhiaka9888]

I think she means in the since that he got criticized and had to apologize respectfully, not the death threats lol

[@stantwittersconner]

his fault is that he's not thoughtful enough to fortune about the problems that could've gone wrong if he talk abt that situation specifically. He mentioned directly about the name, the time of that event. He could've hidden the event name and told the story generally so that his fans can't assume and witch hunt other idols wrongfully.

[@stantwittersconner]

@@leebubbles he named it and also named the time, so they had the chance to witch hunt ppl. If he didnt, the fan wouldnt have known and they wouldve not assumed each of the idols in that event.

[@bougie_pink]

I don’t see why you have to take it to such an extreme trying to see as through she is excusing* death threats? Are we watching the same person 😅 she’s quite oppose to senseless hate in general

[@LyraReid]

Lol no more chan's room because of his dumb fandom causing issues.

[@LaurenPebble]

Why is it that groups that promote self-love, acceptance, anti-bullying have the most toxic, abusive fandoms? Strays Kids music is built on being a haven for people that feel like outcasts and like they don’t fit in, and then somehow they all came together and rather than celebrating their differences formed a hive mind with the sole purpose of bullying the rest of the kpop world.

[@DizzyLuv0]

Because all the insecure people unite there... like it kinda makes sense... you find in those fandoms either the sweetest people, or the most victim mentality, offended by everything type of people

[@LaurenPebble]

@@DizzyLuv0 that’s exactly what it is! People with a victim mentality from being ‘outcasts’. So basically they’re just the kpop version of school shooters. I suppose this is at least better than that…

[@arinontop143]

Ikr i feel like skz is my safe place but then these toxic stays just ruin everything.

[@verminlord666]

The way that you kpoppers vilianize stays and stray kids is crazy because what some stays do is nowhere near as bad as what every other fandom does. The way dives have been treating bang chan proves that. But stray kids and stays have been the kpop community's punching bag since the beginning, so what else can we expect. Yall can keep being vile and gaslighting people though. We will continue to love and support stray kids forever. ❤️

[@LaurenPebble]

@@verminlord666 you’re delusional but go off I guess. IVE and especially Wonyoung have been K-pop’s punching bag pretty much since debut.

[@absolutelynotellen]

I agree with what you said in the opening. Maybe somethings remain behind closed doors or talked about privately. This parasocial relationship really do taking over eh...

[@rikachin3295]

nahhh cuz you're so real for this....i agree that channie needs to be careful with what he shares and who he shares it with. Not everyone takes what you say in the proper context which in his case this time was not about bowing but was more about how greetings are ignored or the newer groups do not care about being respectful. However chan is in the wrong here since he has already witnessed how his words are weaponized by so called STAYs. But I think that chan apologizing for the issue getting out of hand was very one sided since us STAYs are not kids and he shouldn't be apologizing on our behalf, these bullies are grown ass people who completely go against the morals of the group. You spam positive messages on hyunjin and felix's posts since they're being bullied but at the end of the day bully a group and fandom that were simply minding their own business (i'm not referring to all STAYs here) Chan needs to realize the bigger they get the more toxic fans enter the fandom we've seen it with BTS, blackpink, Exo, etc. And to those STAYs who end up ruining the fandom's names please get help. Even yesterday at the versace show y'all were spamming the chats for hyunjin. I understand it's out of love and affection but there's a time and place for that it was a goddamn fashion show and you were straight up being disrespectful to the guests there.. even on versace's ig posts yes i agree the man looks like a greek god so non kpoppers were asking who he was and y'all are out here embarassing us saying my husband my boyfriend.....like gurl- they'll unstan even before stanning due to this cringe shit

[@xbaeksky]

I actually understand this because he knows LIKE HE KNOWS his fandom is shit internationally speaking. like the amount of times stays made hateful comments towards others, like y'all remember when justhis got death threats bc changbin was eliminated from smtm? the problem is the fandom. I'm part of the fandom and I'm embarrassed but it is true that he shares too much to people who only pay his rent.

[@saturnayeon]

.... how would he know what millions of people are like you freak

[@sasahnb]

With knowing how toxic fans are, chan should’ve known better. Just accept chan was in the wrong

[@tolanisimpson5360]

THANK👏YOU👏

[@cani-stay-withyou3406]

As a Stay I feel so bad being in this fandom sometimes. This is one of them. And I hate the fact that there are so many immature and toxic people in fandoms. Why can't we all just love the same thing and be civil about it? Annoying. But still, it should not be an idols job to filter their words, to think of every word as though it could start ww3. It is so unfair that idols have to do that. This isn't a generational thing either. It's always been this way hasn't it? That the people we adore have to put on a mask and filter themselves, just to protect people from each other. I hate it. I adore Chan and his way of talking so sincerely to fans. I hate that they just keep on abusing his trust, over and over and over again. One day he'll just stop telling his opinion. One day he will come to the conclusion, that no matter how he tries to talk about an issue he's noticed, his words will be twisted and used to hurt another. I fear that day. I'd say I'm a good fan. I never bash on people, I never cuss them out. But I'm also not the most active person. That's fine. I'm not hurting anyone. But I'm still hurting? Why? Because selfish people keep on making innocent people cry. I'm so sick of it.

[@KDHKZ]

Some fans seem to think there wasn't any problem with what he said, the only problem was the fan reaction. Let's strip away the context of him being famous and commenting about a colleague in front of thousands of people. If I were in a work meeting and said that someone else on staff hadn't greeted me properly in front of everyone else, I'd be considered a shit stirrer for airing it out in front of everybody instead of going to speak with the person individually. It's immature, passive aggressive, and does nothing but cause gossip. I'd give him a pass for lapse of judgment once, but this is the second time he's made such comments publicly and the last time he did a similar scenario played out with another group getting hate.

[@jaeshiki]

Which group got hate “the other time”

[@sidedishbangchan]

Your analogy is flawed, he did not even name anyone. So he is not the shit stirrer. What other group has he ever mention being disrespectful towards him, please do tell that.

[@KDHKZ]

@sidedishbangchan my analogy didn't involve naming anyone either. When you're speaking vaguely and the people you could be referring to are limited, it's foolish to assume assumptions won't be made.

[@sidedishbangchan]

@@KDHKZ Respectfully, toxic fans of any fandom spread hate and Stay are no different. Toxic fans always find a reason to hate, this time it was Chan, next time it will be someone else. Shutting the artist up, for just telling what he experienced is not going to lead to anything good. TOXIC STAY WERE AT FAULT. But all this video is doing is targetting hate towards Chan. Which is very hypocritical of the creator, considering that they're blaming Chan for causing hate towards a group when they are doing exactly that.

[@KDHKZ]

@sidedishbangchan this video is criticizing Chan for something that came out of his own mouth that had the predictable effect of inciting hate towards others. We all have to be mindful of how our actions affect other people, which hopefully Chan will remember to do before he incites a hate mob for a third time.

[@zackwilson8701]

Honestly as a Western fan I'm still shocked by what an absurdly high standards of conduct Korean idols are supposed to conform to. I grew up with Kanye West saying dumb and offensive crap all the time, so these "scandals" never feel that scandalous honestly. I generally think that idols should be allowed to express their opinions more often, not less. Some of the parasocial stuff is cringe, but in general I don't mind when idols or celebrities are a bit messy with sharing their opinions, politics, expressing their sexuality, etc. I might dislike a celebrity for their comments or conduct, but I'm not going to expect famous people to just just shut up and be diplomatic all the time. They're human beings who deserve the opportunity to be messy, authentic, and make mistakes like the rest of us. Bang Chan was a bit careless, but he isn't responsible for the stupidity of the small minority of Stays who behave horribly, nor should anyone scrutinize Ive and whether or not they bow enough. Who cares about any of this?

[@theread3480]

Yeah man I’m an American Kpop fan and whenever these “controversies” happen in Kpop I’m always like “wait people actually care about this?”

[@theread3480]

Also I’m not sure what exactly it is about Kpop but I just feel like there are an unhealthy amount of people who are TOO invested into Kpop. Like the fact that IVE got an insane amount of hate because of a comment that wasn’t even directed towards them really highlights what I hate most about this community. People are too invested. They make Kpop a more significant part of their life than they should. They literally let this industry influence them to such a degree that they send hate and threats to groups because of something completely unrelated to them and then spend hours upon hours looking for “evidence” of these groups behaving in that way.

[@sienxverse]

The way I see it, chan sees stays as little puppies that he can talk to about anything. Man’s best friend. They will listen to him all day, worship him, rely on him. What he seems to ignore and neglect is the fact that those same little puppies will turn into wolves and run into an open field of sheep. They will attack, and when it becomes serious, he will call them all back, and claim that he wasn’t talking about anyone and they shouldn’t have done that. Then he takes them away again and forgets until it happens again. At the end of the day, they’re still his little puppies

[@linoshu]

i disagree with this, i think this is incredibly over-exaggerated. yes, for some stays, this may apply but describing the whole fandom as his little puppies who worship him, then eventually wolves who attack others isn't true. i don't think you realise that what you're saying is what you think CHAN thinks which already alone just explains the fact that this most likely isn't true. i don't intend to offend you or stir anything up, i'm just correcting you. & i really like the metaphor you used to describe stays as puppies who turn into wolves & run into an open field to attack sheep, it's very creative. (although it's not quite true)

[@sienxverse]

@@linoshu ty 😭

[@Ginasddiary_]

I love how you worded it even tho i'm a stay i completely agree!

[@sshaera]

people saying he shouldn't have apologised for his fans actions.... he's not just apologising for that, he's apologising bc he did not use his platform and influence responsibly, if you have such a huge fanbase behind you, you need to be aware of your influence especially when something like this has happened multiple times already

[@jadesweetbutton]

They seem to forget he can be sued for defamation. Korean laws on defamation are very strict.

[@jadesweetbutton]

@AnUnknownPerson I've seen it many times. I don't believe that a grown man pushing thirty who's been in the industry more than a decade doesn't know what happens when he feeds his fans a target. And for defamation you don't have to mention a name. If it is widely understood by people that you were talking about one particular person and you do not correct it.

[@Ellie-nv5vf]

This is a much bigger and more nuanced issue. While I can agree with a lot of the points raised, the answer or solution to this being "close your mouth and stick to the script" doesn’t seem to be progressive at all. It's true, he's a public figure, and should act as such. His fans *are* immature, most kpop fans are. But this seems like a long winded cycle. "I want authenticity. I want idols to speak freely" but then, "Stick to the script. Speak up... but not in a way I don't like" is the perpetual loop we can't seem to escape. Something has got to give. The climate in kpop culture is so toxic, both for artists and fans. Truly, companies and fans are really the issue. It's too easy to police the idol than to get fans to take accountability for their delusions, but then nothing changes and we'll find ourselves in the same conversations in a few months.

[@onegirlmusic]

those fans are honestly not okay my gosh do they nothing else to do

[@RyubearSaysGao]

I remember how Justin Bieber fans, physically harmed themselves, after he smoked upon becoming of age. One would think that other male popstars, come to understand how profoundly their existence affects millions of impressionable people. I suppose that everyone learns eventually. Bieber does not pretend to be the boyfriend-next-door, anymore.

[@dumbturtle4546]

Idkw but the way his fans talk about his “authenticity” and how much they like him because he’s “real” and “honest” it’s like… so weird to me because did you go to school with him? Did you grow up together or something? That you know him so well lol idk It kinda freaks me out a little bit how they think they’re besties or something. I’m not saying he’s bad or anything, I don’t know him that well, but just keep it real people, what we see is what they let us and want us to see, nothing more, we’re just fans at the end of the day.

[@8luvbug]

Fans always called they're fave real and raw, but when they get in trouble they change their tune and say "he/she didn't know any better" or try to blame their company whenever they do or saying something wrong.

[@murasaki_hj]

Thank you! I just think this is basic media training. It doesn't matter how comfortable you feel with your fandom. You have to be mindful of how your words may be interpreted. As a leader of a group, I've seen namjoon do such an amazing job of speaking eloquently and tactfully that anything short of that comes off as lacking. In any case, I hope he takes this mistake to heart and learns from it ❤

[@Maryam-un1cr]

thats just dehumanizing. how are yall gonna restrict someone of voicing their opinions online when that's exactly what you and this vid are doing? so hypocritical. grow up and stop shifting the blame from toxic fans who never apologized.

[@murasaki_hj]

@@Maryam-un1cr I don't think you're living in the real world where voicing your opinion has actual consequences

[@siana6599]

stays not beating the dumb fandom allegations TT

[@bumblefilm]

as dawko wisely said "know your platform, know where you stand on it, and use it right."

[@adriana7890]

So Chan treats stays like his bffs, right? If my bffs and I had a chat with a friend and they told me they felt disrespected or pissed about something that an unidentified person did or said, do you think we as friends would go attack random people who we suspect? Do you thìnk we would go blab our mouths on Fb or on chats for the whole world to hear about what our bff said? What happened to keeping things discussed amongst friends, just amongst yourselves? That's the kind of etiquette we have been taught. Kpop has become the woke era of fakenewsmongers.

[@adriana7890]

Stays literally finished watching the live and then after some speculating, ran to post on tt. Who betrays and blabs on a bff like this? It shows you the lack of upstanding character and respect these 'friends' of Chan have.

[@ashpandey4579]

That's just how you think bffs should behave, and that's your experience which is completely valid but a lot of fans are immature and toxic and they go on to speculate and harass other idols. A lot of people also do this irl where if they have a problem with someone, they get their friends and family to harass them or spread nasty rumors etc. You are lucky if you have not seen this type of crazy behavior before.

[@adriana7890]

@@ashpandey4579 I am lucky. I've never had a bff blab on anything we have discussed. It's about respect and we all respect each other immensely. And we certainly don't go around bashing on people like ex bfs. You are right, it's called maturity.

[@cdhdjbddjbsxksj]

Some stays are really toxic this not what it is suppose to be if u cant respect other fandom then u can leave

[@randomkpopstuff7589]

I fully understand everything you are saying, we can agree on the fact that what Chan said was irresponsible. But isn't what you are doing just as bad, if not worse. You have a lot of people watching your videos, and clips of what you are saying can be taken the wrong way and can be used to bully Chan. I do acknowledge that there were some things that he shouldn't have said, but you are literally contradicting what you are saying and doing the exact thing you are holding him accountable for. I would also like to speak about something that you did not speak about - in the same breath that STAYS were being disrespectful to IVE. DIVES posted some really sick and disgusting tweets and posts about Chan... Like they were shocking. People body-shamed him, made and shared disgusting edits of him, and some even sent death threats, just so that they could get hit tweets. If DIVEs want to make it seem like STAYS were immature about how things were handled then they should handle themselves more maturely as well. I also think it's sad that fans just expect K-pop idols to present this perfect image all the time, at least Chan is real with his fans, and is one of the few KPOP idols that we have that actually does that, sooo from my understanding, y'all just want K-pop idols to just put on a "perfect" persona all the time, they are human too, and we shouldn't hate on them during the times we see them in those moments(What I am trying to say is that I kind of like Chan's relationship with his fans.) But I fully do understand the part where you said that he should be more careful with what he says because all this did result in a lot of hate towards IVE. Even though I think Chan didn’t mean this on purpose You are right in some of the points you made Respect - Idols need more protection

[@nuclearclarity3778]

exactly. yesterday i literally decided not to fully stan any more 4th gen girl groups, because they always band together to say the most vile shit. i’d literally rather fight moas like we were in december; at least that was an actual argument and not just people being the scum of the earth.

[@elinama7061]

I feel like it's not the same. Yes, she has viewers but she is not an idol with a huge fanbase like he is. She is simply critiquing the situation and offering her thoughts and opinion. She does not have a fanbase, she does not share personal stuff about herself like we have a codependent relationship with her. And her viewers are NOT known to jump on bandwagons and hate people just because she brought it up. If she were as big as him, she is saying she would never use that big of a platform to get comfy with her fans like he does. She does not have fans that are ready to go to war at the drop of a hat. That's the difference she's trying to make. We as regular people are allowed to state our opinion on things. But someone like Chan has a responsibility to be way more careful with his words. Because the repercussions of us making a statement and Chan making a statement is completely different. It is simply kpop news and her thoughts on it. Granted there are other issues she didn't bring up like Chan getting unfairly hurt by DIVEs. They're not innocent in this either. But the reality is, as I said, an idol should be more careful with their words because fans in general are not ready to be mature about it. So until they are, wouldn't it be more feasible to keep it to himself? But that's why we are free to learn and draw our own conclusion. Personally I think it's okay to disagree and discuss.

[@golozerritchieenthusiast9178]

@@elinama7061 Doesn't fucking matter how big her audience is compared to his, she has one REGARDLESS and her videos deliberately paint him in a bad light and her stupid biased takes can easily be used to fuel the hate against him (as if it isn't already immense right now). I swear you people are such fucking hypocrites. Cheryl is doing the EXACT same thing as Chan, actually worse considering she's directly targeting him

[@k53107]

Yep.

[@revechae]

they are a kpop youtuber with thousands of fans. he is a kpop star with millions and known globally with people watching his every move. different impact

[@utena2]

This is part of why I stopped liking kpop, the fans are so petty they turn literally every little thing into a controversy and as a result idols end up with these super fake polite personalities because theyre constantly walking on eggshells.

[@soobunii4871]

this reminds me of when chan made that comment about woojin and stays sent woojin even more hate. seems like he just loves drama atp.

[@jadesweetbutton]

Not even more hate.. just hate. Woojin wasn't receiving hate until chan's vlive

[@golozerritchieenthusiast9178]

@@jadesweetbutton Wrong he wasn’t receiving hate until he made a satirical documentary to respond to sexual allegations 🤥 The fandom was still very much divided during that live, and he still had a lot of supporters until then. You cubs want people to forget this so bad and pin everything on Chan when the MAJORITY of the time people bring up their discomfort with Woojin it’s BECAUSE of the way he responded to the controversy 💀

[@jadesweetbutton]

@@golozerritchieenthusiast9178 So stays didn't falsely accuse him of sexual assault in sept of 2020? Leak his phone number, Spread what they thought were his nudes, Body shame him, Send DT to his mother, Impersonate his company, Cheer when he got covid. No all that didn't happen in 2020? He didn't start getting hate until 2021 june ? According to you. almost a full year after it was proven BY police that 3 brazilian stays made the false accusations on twitter, that his COMPANY made a satirical documentary telling the victim (Woojin's) story and how cyber bullying is bad. So And so how did they make a documentary about cyber bullying if he wasn't being bullied before. The spin is wild. Please go to h***.

[@jadesweetbutton]

@@golozerritchieenthusiast9178 Us cubs want people to forget dates. The left twenty fourth of march 2020. Stays false accusations 2020. Woojin does 3 interviews Feb 2021, March and May 2021 talking very seriously about the accusations. Stays use those posts to promote back door (used SA to promote skz). The thing that you call a controversy in an effort to minimize what stays did, was as a direct response to Chans words. Rafa (the chan biased stay, also the false accuser) stated, she did it to punish him because of what Chan said. You seem to have your facts very confused but then again you're a stay. It comes with the territory. What's the use in facts when you can just make sh*t up.

[@jadesweetbutton]

@@golozerritchieenthusiast9178 at your big age, you should be so embarrassed

[@katiesmith5461]

The problem with saying that we're not ready for idols to have 'freedom of speech' yet is that if everyone sticks to this status quo then there will never be any change, we will always just 'not quite be ready'

[@nOsi2658]

I think that you are totally right. The problem in the Kpop industry is definitely obsessive fans, some of them think that they have the right to harass other idols to "protect" their favs and to affirm that they are a part of a fandom. That's why idols can't speak openly to their fans or else we end up in this situation. The problem are those fans but in the other hand Chan should have learnt from his mistakes and be more careful with his words

[@nOsi2658]

(Btw I think that he talked about "generations" because he has been a trainee for a very long time, he is friend with idols from the 3rd generation so he watched the whole K-pop industry evolving from backstage. That's probably why he made a comment about it.) + he is very respected by most of the 4th generation bc of his age so he must feel old even if he's not😭

[@anch1117]

+1

[@hennakhan4587]

Chan can learn a thing or two from Lee Know. I mean after Chan, Lee Know does most of the lives and the guy keeps his lips sealed about his personal and emotional life!!

[@ayanobadass949]

Like yes they should shut their mouth and act like robot instead of expressing their feelings.

[@4kach24]

@@ayanobadass949 Nobody said that they should act like robots and not express themselves . Fans need to understand that their actions have real consequences. Like look at all those suicides among public figures in Korea, it's disgusting. Some fans blow situations up like no problem just for fun and because of their own toxicity and insecurities. Fans need to take responsibility for their obsessive behaviours because it causes real people to get hurt in the end of the day. Bullying is not okay period. Idols are REAL PEOPLE and they aren't always strong when it comes to dealing with endless negativity. On the other hand, criticism is needed for better and safer industry and healthier fandoms. Chan apologized himself,it was HIS decision, because he (hopefully) understood the aftermath of his words,owned up to a mistake. There's no need to baby someone and get angry at every person who says that someone made a mistake. It's unreasonable and not helpful at all.

[@ayanobadass949]

@@4kach24 You are right critism is needed everywhere. But i'm still sad for BangChan because he is so honest with literally everything that people mistake his sweetness for " a man who just want attention " which is so fked up. And now i'm afraid he won't be the same bcz of some toxic mthfkers lmao. We don't even know their real identity 💀 at this point i think that being real is not an option anymore.

[@4kach24]

@@ayanobadass949 I totally understand what you mean. I'm afraid this will happen to my bias too, I still want them to not lose their spark! About the realness though...I don't even know how real Idols are when it comes to us (their fans). Of course we are able to understand their emotions and sincere things they say ,but in the end their job is to support this curated image with the help of their company and its staff. Sadly companies only care for mental health of idols only when it comes to losing money, so they act only if the public bullies an artist into an oblivion and it makes their stocks drop. So we as fans have some power to influence companies for them to prevent those situations from the start,so no artist gets hurt and they get their revenue. TLDR; the companies and the fans are responsible for the well being of an idol as well as an idol themselves. What we can do is treat people with kindness and to point out unprofessionalism,neglect, bullying,so nobody has a bad experience. Kpop is about fun after all

[@alegraasita1575]

I love skz, especially chan, and I fully disagreed with the caption before watching this, but after watching it it's given me a new perspective about how idols should watch what they say even if they have a right to freedom of speech. I'm not a "full time" stan of skz it I first liked chan from his livestream videos circulating social media which made me want to defend him against any opposing opinion. A lot of what you're saying actually makes sense and I think a large part of it is from the fans unfortunately. Good talk fr

[@clemandneck]

The major problem is just stan culture, I mean... it's trash. This almost never happens with other musical artists when their fan are reasonnable. Main actors of this weird stan culture are of course labels, but I believe many idols deeply play into it. It is clear Chan's parasocial relationship with STAY is more than unhealthy, and that applies to ANY kpop group that has EVER existed. On the topic of etiquette, I agree with you, and imo it really just should've stayed and intra Korea cuz non koreans clearly CANNOT understand the nuances and degrees of politeness in this country.

[@SamanthaRamirez-fq2dk]

I’m so glad finally someone said it. Stop making excuses for your idol and just accept they made a mistake. It’s fine and in the past now. Thank you so much for bringing this up in such a respectful way and giving good, reasonable reasons to prove your point

[@chloee3105]

stays once again proving that they don't have basic comprehension skills... also very hypocritical how you are all upset that people misinterpreted chan's words and hated on him for it and are doing the same thing to cheryl.. but i guess we can't expect common sense from kpop stans

[@egg4330]

Some of these people aren’t even listening to cheryls valid points, they’re just calling her a hater, I think the idea of criticism and calling out someone when they’re wrong as long as long as it’s their faves is incomprehensible

[@chloee3105]

@@egg4330 also proving her point that a lot of stays treat chan like god that can do no wrong...

[@DannieT-qu8xn]

People need to SEE this comment!!! I'm tired of fans blindly defending their idols like they can do no wrong.

[@golozerritchieenthusiast9178]

Sorry but implying that he deserves all the backlash he's getting when he's being bombarded with nothing but pedo accusations, xenophobic, racism and more is nasty of her, and several people are brining up her hypocrisy in these comments. But of course, y'all just love dck sucking her whenever she comes out with horrible takes, so y'all are just gonna turn this into another "stupid kpop fans" story when it's way more than that.

[@everloveslearning]

SPITTING FACTS

[@theyutazen]

stays still talking about korean etiquette as if they know what they are talking about?? Did they not learn from the "Felix asking Woojin to the bathroom" moment? When they did not know that it is korean etiquette to ask their elders for permission to leave the table and they made it a thing how woojin was a villain? I can't with stay.

[@Sklv-m8t]

It is not ONLY a Korean etiquette it is a basic thing to greet someone back isn't it? And woojin was for sure bullied by stays for unreasonable things.some stays for sure say a lot of rubbish things

[@LovelyKissess]

Oh I remember that. People swore it was stupid and no one does that and so much other stuff. But when it's chan "not getting respect" they think they know what they're talking about lol I honestly forgot all about that. Stays are eating their own words 😂😂😂

[@Sklv-m8t]

I don't stand by what stays say or they don't since I was not even in the fandom back then and i am not even educated about Korean etiquette but is is a really common thing to greet back all around the world and it should not be made into such a big deal by us stays he was just saying we, should have just listened thats it.....

[@KarinaKarasawa-jh3cf]

I agree a lot with you’re opinion but I hate so much about how stays or any random will take something an idol says and use it against anyone. I feel like idols especially Chan trusts their fans but the fans always find a way to break that trust.

[@CastawayKayGirl]

Hello! I would like to say, as a Stay I agree with most of your statements. I feel as if Chan has gotten way to close and with some people its not a problem. But when it gets into the wrong persons hands it becomes one. I deff think that its great when idols dont feel uncomfy with thier fans, but they also should say everything to fans.

[@notdahlia300]

this entire video is spot on!

[@KookieDough94]

I think this is why I never follow any groups like a sheep but just listen to their music instead. So much unneeded drama lol. But you're right on STAY, they are toxic af.

[@thriftskull5549]

The stays in the comment section are literally proving Cheryls point!!!! like just stop you are not his friend you are his fan!!!! have boundaries!

[@I_hate_life536]

The way I had no idea this was happening 😭😭

[@ryanostone22]

So basically, as Cheryl said, Chan went live and talked about Music Bank in Paris. That led to the conversation about respect. However, his fans who were watching the video began assuming it was IVE. They started taking video clips from the live and posting it to social media. This caused more stays to namedrop IVE, with no actual proof that he meant IVE. Dives found out and got upset by it. Knetz also found out and started bashing Chan. Basically it was a back and forth between stays and dives.

[@I_hate_life536]

@@ryanostone22 behh I love chan he's my bias but bro was a hypocrite for tht💀 alsoo ty for the explanation ❤️

[@dollydoie]

@@ryanostone22 May i add that even japanese netizens who aren't even fans started defending the girls

[@golozerritchieenthusiast9178]

@@I_hate_life536 How is he a hypocrite for that??????

[@hrtsfrmnsg]

@@dollydoie you mean their japanese fans? because ppl are defending chan

[@gabdongipark]

People blame himbut when Ateez said the exact same thing. No one blamed them, no ine told them they were acting reckless. So the issue is maybe the fandom and not the idol. He should have said to Stay not to dig who he was refering to and move on.

[@rosie9943]

His feeling are valid, but him ranting to the fans are not knowing they can be vile and attack others. He should talk to that juniors to fix them

[@egg4330]

@@rosie9943 oh he def knows how vile his fandom is 😭

[@AWansia]

As Atiny i think it's a difference in attitude towards such situations. Ateez gave an example of disrespect, but they showed after that themselves can handle this, even answer to rude idols, they don't take it so seriously and to heart, they can joke about the manners of another generation. As far as I understood, Chan said about this disrespect seriously and kinda resentfully, several times, thereby emphasizing that it was unpleasant and hurted his feelings, so the fans rushed to his defense. I don't justify their hate, but I kinda can understand the origins of their behavior.

[@jagiyaforsannie]

the difference is chan specified event and ateez did not

[@rreennaad]

Stays now are bullying Ive , young teens who said nothing and Stays has 0 prove the Ive were the group Chan is talking about, I feel I’m the only one who think Chan apology is fine since Stay made assumptions based on what he said.

[@ivebptwicetheholetrinity3466]

I saw 300+ stays bullying leeseo a minor when she was crying while winning a daesang on MAMA cuz of one troll account. And now flooding Ive and it’s members instagrams with their comments now

[@rreennaad]

@@ivebptwicetheholetrinity3466 I’ve seen it and it’s disgusting, their behaviour justify Chan’s apology

[@Blackswan75777]

@@ivebptwicetheholetrinity3466 what about ur other fandom bullying ive ? U still have guts to speak about stays

[@ivebptwicetheholetrinity3466]

@@Blackswan75777 yeah cuz yall have been bullying ive UNMENTIONED and in UNRELATED posts bringing their viral hates that weren’t even true back.

[@mrose401]

you all really want kpop idols to stay in a cage where they can’t express themselves. he said nothing wrong. the problem is not him feeling a certain way about greeting in HIS culture. the problem is toxic ass stays who feel the need to jump to conclusions and start placing blame on someone for god knows what reason. to feel superior? i truly don’t know why. but it was stupid as hell they did that. Chan doesn’t control stays and that is not his fault. “well he has a platform and should take responsibility” is such a bullshit excuse in this scenario because what he said wasnt disrespectful, it was his truth, and it did not warrant the amount of death threats, xenophobia, body shaming, fucking everything that dives came back at him with. chan said no names. didn’t mention gg’s or bg’s. he is allowed to feel some type of way as a senior in the industry, and he wasn’t even rude while saying it. stays should not have attacked ive, and they always take shit out of context and run with it and cause problems. i would understand if dives shut stays down, if they came for the tik tok creators who made videos about ive, but they didn’t. they went right to attack chan and all they did was prove how vile they are. BOTH fandoms have acted absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing throughout the entire thing. This is also not an excuse for you all to hate on Chan because way too many people have jumped on the hate train and are saying the most vile shit about him and his family and in what world do you all think that’s acceptable?

[@nasacarat]

"His culture" And the general public of korea is targeting chan... not even dives or something like that

[@mrose401]

@@nasacarat you’re clearly not on twitter where that fandom has been sending MASS hate. saying someone should sh**t him. wishing harm on him and his family. how you can sit on your ass and defend that is sick and you need to seek help. he does not deserve this. what he “did” and what backlash he’s facing does not match even in the slightest. and even if it did it is pure evil to say the shit that fandom is. dives are just as in the wrong here as those dumbass stays.

[@parsachoudhury6727]

​@@nasacarat Id think the gp is attacking him though... Pann isn't the gp, it's mostly incels who hate everything and that's the only online Korean forum I've seen him get hate

[@nasacarat]

@@parsachoudhury6727 I'm not talking about pann though... I 'm talking about various naver articles and tweets from korean and japanese ppl who weren't even dives... Do you know how many articles this issue got😭😭Even today there were around 5 articles titled "Even after the apology, stray kids fans continue the witch hunt and target ive members"... on NAVER.. Literally chan is suffering because of his fans

[@parsachoudhury6727]

@@nasacarat I really don't know how many articles this issue got 😭 I haven't been keeping up with it. Tbh because at some point I decided it isn't my place to. Also because it's too chaotc and Id wanna be a part of that. But yeah I totally get what you mean, and I do understand the sentiment that he was a but out of line by venting his frustrations about the state of the industry to his fans who are known for being rabid.

[@fleurlievens6916]

I get where all of this is coming from and I totally agree that with what you are saying in the video. I just think it's so sad that people are kinda pushing chan into being this guy who did something wrong just bc they abuse what he says and go use it to justify their own actions. I totally understand that after all these incidents chan should be more careful with his platform and I think now he also understands it more (or I really hope so). It's just really ducking stupid that idols just can't speak their minds or share these kinds of moments with people without their being consequences. so I get your point on 'freedom of speech' and I totally agree. It just makes me sick that this is the truth just bc people abuse idols freedom of speech for their own (mostly bad) doings and i'm kinda sick of it.

[@pe1rcess]

i know this video is old but since it's being brought up on twitter again i felt like coming back to it. i feel like this is a problem that is systemic within the industry rather than chan's fault entirely. i'm not trying to shift the so called blame as i do believe the way he handled it and the way he overshares with his fans wasn't good but this undeniably a product of the fact that the industry uses parasocial relationships as a marketing tactic to draw in fans. his fans feel like they have some sort of duty to him to protect them while attacking everyone else around him and therefore blew this whole situation of proportion, twisted his words and attacked IVE. in a perfect world chan would have been aware of this possibility, however, considering that many idols have spoken up about this exact thing before, there's no way he could have been. yes he made a mistake and he deserves to be held accountable for it, but to oversimplify the situation by acting like he willingly fostered hate towards someone is...strange to say the least. he is one person, on the other hand, starship, a whole ass company, willingly used him as a scapegoat for IVE's long standing controversies with "not bowing" instead of defending them properly.

[@citamora]

But poor IVE and WOOJIN take the heat because of fansom delusion.

[@aishxni]

okay, i'm gonna be honest. i saw the title, i clicked "dislike", but you hooked me, and i kept watching. 16 minutes later, my opinion hasn't changed much, but the lens i'm viewing it from has (if that makes any sense?), and i've no longer "disliked" this video. i think you make a good point about power and responsibility, but i also think that the kpop fandom needs to be told that their idols do have opinions and some of them can be controversial, and idols like chan (and dare i say, yunjin) are normalizing this. i think while he definitely shouldn't have talked about something that was particularly controversial at the time, i don't think he should have apologized. in fact, you're right; i think it should have been stays apologizing. i also think that you're right about how he chose to share it with the wrong audience, and the fact that stays are now considered that "wrong audience" says a lot about the fandom. i think that although the end result was quite depressing (with chan's room being cancelled), i think it was a super important call to stays saying that "yo, ur hate has consequences", and maybe i'm being delulu, but the fandom HAS gotten a bit better (in terms of hating other artists) since.

[@benndarayta9156]

I laughed so hard when I heard "the basic etiquette of keeping your mouth closed"🤣😂

[@pepsi3595]

you perfectly explained and debunked everything thank you

[@hotsexyangel]

DUUUDE THANK U SO MUCH FOR POINTING OUT THAT CHAN ENCOURAGES A TOXIC, WEIRD FRIENDSHIP WITH STAYS 😭 it’s almost on purpose atp. It’s like he knows he can use his fans to fight his battles for him. It’s so weird and gross. I don’t know how you can be a 30 year old man and do the things that he’s doing without fully being aware of what he’s doing…

[@Nat_0218]

It's not almost on purpose, it is on purpose.

[@via45]

The answer is he is deranged

[@8luvbug]

It is on purpose. This is the 3rd time he's whined to his rabid fans on social media about other idols/groups. Only this time it backfired on him.

[@lavienssera]

I don’t get how stays cannot understand that THEY ARE the people who made Chan apologize and feel ashamed of the whole situation

[@LovelyKissess]

I don't get it either. But I think it's a care of not wanting to take accountability for their own actions. They'll continue to blame everyone but themselves

[@ugh899]

YES LIKE???? I am a Stay myself (however, at no point I used his line against him or other groups) and it is so embarrassing to know that Stays did this 💀

[@Nameless_mixes]

THIS!!! What Bang Chan said isn’t terrible. The only reason it’s a problem is because there’s a large enough portion of the fandom where every little thing can set them off on someone. Yes, Chan needs to stop being so personal with online strangers. But, more importantly, Stays need to learn that not everything Chan says is a justification for bashing on other idols. They’re to blame here.

[@khadijarafiq9293]

bffr

[@あきら-v7h]

Chan also has some fault. It would’ve been fine if he said it once, he mentioned it multiple times. He knows the influence he has on Stays. My main issue is that people in the comments are comparing Chan to idols that were talking about mistreatment they faced with a certain company. To me, it’s just a blatant insult to those other idols. I guarantee you that not saying “hello” to your senior isn’t as serious as the corruption in the industry

[@kiyanawhitney-james6596]

It doesn't matter how respectful someone is. People will take your words and twist them. Kpop has gotten more and more toxic over the years, and a lot of fandoms are bullies. "Fans" need to change.

[@lifeissobeautiful6404]

That's what I'm saying, in every argument I've read, from people who say "He shouldn't have to apologise for fans behaviour" & those who "He should've known what his fans are like", the fans are ALWAYS the common denominator. A lot of people are failing to realise that. The people should be put on the spot the most are the Stays who decided to attack IVE over something they were never proven to do. No idol should feel like they're prohibited from expressing their genuine feelings (as long as it's not offensive) just because their fans act in a certain way. Then it's those people who are the problem and must change, not Chan and definitely not IVE.😤

[@karlafrancis8471]

I don't think this is a kpop issue. If any artist even in western music went on live and said that a fellow artist ignored them, how do you think their fans would react? I remember when sza lied and said that bts ignored her at the Harry styles concert and they were called every slur imaginable, thousands of people were in spaces dragging them.

[@kiyanawhitney-james6596]

@@karlafrancis8471 The example you gave sza lied. emphasis on the lied part. Other idol have stated that the younger idols don't greet or exchange pleasantries. So I don't see your comparison. Anyhow it's still "fans" taking it upon themselves to be complete asshats and bully others which isn't appropriate. I said kpop in my comment because that's what the video is about. Either was "fans" make the people they say they like look bad because they are feral. The people that they try to defend are not our friends and their isn't a reason to call people out of their name or say they have done things that they have never done. Some people don't know how to keep a thought just a thought and need to take the next exit out of deluluville.

[@karlafrancis8471]

@@kiyanawhitney-james6596 we found out it was a lie later on but at the time it was taken as the truth and that was how they responded. My point was this toxicity is everywhere. And I wouldn't say kpop has gotten more toxic because it was always toxic. Social media just amplifies it, people used to meet up physically to fight in the past

[@filmdiva6840]

@@lifeissobeautiful6404 I have started to hate being into kpop at all at this point because there are so many toxic fans in every fandom. I don’t understand why some stays felt the need to attack a group when they don’t even know who he was talking about. I’ve literally defended those girls because they are so often targeted, even when they haven’t done anything. I wish there was a way to stop them.

[@replayboomtrack]

honestly chan was politely sharing his thoughts. the fandom just acted so immaturely about it, that’s all. that's the main issue. he should have also thought about who is actually watching his lives - (generally) delusional, young teens. we cannot fix a fandom, but he is the idol, he can be careful with his words/actions. this could have been avoided if he never said what he said ^^

[@sunsets1209]

I agree stays are protective as they should be but they also keep setting the boys up...

[@si_multifandom_ch_5099]

@@WitnessEra Petition for Everglow-Up to ban this troll.

[@always_mob]

@@WitnessEra lol what?? Bfr

[@always_mob]

@@sunsets1209 yeah I just wish stays would just take accountability for their actions instead of throwing blame to dives

[@orbitsomnia]

@@WitnessEra he never mentioned wonyoung or her group, ppl just assumed and threw hate at her who was alr a target for other things

[@kimtashi5376]

You know what's sad is the fact that chan trusts us so much but somehow the fandom finds every way to break it..... Multiple times

[@LO-dm6uf]

That's just typical of every large fandom, armys, blinks and all other groups as large as stray kids or even larger will always be toxic because the bigger the fandom the more obsessive they will be, also more younger stans will exist. So bangchan should just realize that fact and just not say certain things to his fans because he KNOWS what they will do with it. He can still have a close relationship with stays just not in everything because that doesn't make sense

[@kimtashi5376]

@@LO-dm6uf even if they're are some younger fan i think it depends on a person mentality because i joined this fandom when i was 15 i am now 17.but i can proudly say that I've never been like those people who does stuff like that

[@choisansrightankle9106]

i think after the first time tho he should’ve realized the implications and not done it again he’s 26

[@LO-dm6uf]

@@kimtashi5376 okay?? Being young doesn't mean you're gonna 100% be toxic, but MOST toxic fans are young, that's just a fact. So just because you're not toxic doesn't deny the fact that younger stans ARE much more toxic

[@Kpopmore2023]

Where do you all see bullying made by stay? Or I’m just at Stray Kids/Twice timeline..I don’t even look at other idols posts. Lol

[@yujinzz3835]

Chan is not wrong about voicing out his opinion. However, it's his fans who DID wrong for theorizing that chan is referring to IVE, even though he did not named anyone. DIVEs opinions are valid about chan considering that his cryptic statement made his fans go wild and hate on these teenage girls who have been receiving the hate train ever since they became popular.

[@hrtsfrmnsg]

their opinions are that hes a p3do and pr3dator

[@nuclearclarity3778]

dives opinions about chan seem to include that he should be shot in the head, should go back to his own country, and is a pedophile; so i definitely disagree that all of dives opinions are warranted.

[@IxChipmunk101xI]

And this has happened to SKZ as well all groups get hated on this isn't new.

[@thantkhant4147]

​@@IxChipmunk101xI nah girl groups got more hate for just exist

[@hrtsfrmnsg]

@@thantkhant4147 skz is literally the punching bag of kpop the way you ppl purposefuly ignore that is beyond me

[@matjb]

I’m honestly tired of the standard K-Pop idols are held to these days. As someone that has been listening to K-Pop since 2007, the way the industry has changed in such a toxic way is horrible. Chan voicing his opinion for basic etiquette, is just a microcosm of a larger issue of the standard people put on these idols. It seems like there’s a controversy and an apology having to be given, happening daily at this point. Usually for the stupidest reasons. Chan shouldn’t have to apologize. He didn’t do anything wrong. The fans are the ones that need to apologize because not only are they immature, they are toxic. This goes for most fandoms at this point. At the same time, if someone wants to be rude and not have etiquette, fine. Not your problem, that’s their’s.

[@chanbin]

True..I don’t know about whether he should apologise or not but I feel like he should be careful as to who he’s sharing his opinions with,because it’s not only the industry but also the fans that are getting way too toxic

[@marielintu]

No tiene que disculparse, solo debe ser más cauteloso

[@marielintu]

No tiene que disculparse, solo debe ser más cauteloso

[@phantomgirl_0009]

This! It is not Chan's fault. Just like how Chan is some Stay's safe place. Stay is Chan's safe place. And with all the hate he is getting along the pressure of being a leader is not easy. He is a human and human make mistakes. I get that watching your mouth is a 'basic etiquette' but how are you expecting him to watch his mouth all the time. This is why some idols don't talk during interviews and stuff. And when they don't talk, they go and shout at the haters. I agree with the general stuff you said as k-pop as a whole. But Chan is not at fault here. I am sorry if you want the man to be perfect at everything. Chan's lives with Stay is where not only Stay's, but Chan feels like he can open up. I stated this before and will state it again. Being a leader is not easy. Especially when Stray Kids is a self-producing group. Chan was blamed for months because of the Woojin incident. He has had wild accusations thrown at him like, "he couldn't keep his group together." or "He is a really bad leader who doesn't consider his members feelings." People tell idols to address these problems, and then attack them for doing so. I do not understand how you think of yourselves and idols. Leave them alone! We have already lost Moonbin and many others. So please leave Chan alone. If Stays are toxic then address them, but please don't blame Chan.

[@rooscanbulat6107]

Kpop has always been toxic. The thing is, it wasnt this bad. Now its litteraly out of hand. I dont stan any groups. I also make sure I dont post any opinions about kpop groups.

[@yoonrisworld8678]

It just getting worse and worse. I’ll never understand taking time out of your day to speculate and hate on a person you don’t know online.

[@scarletjems7040]

Literally. But here we are.

[@straykiss_woo]

exactly :/

[@Шейма-э9м]

exactly what I was thinking 💭

[@A_major_disappointment]

Ik, I feel like people take things too seriously these days as if it is happening to them

[@scarletjems7040]

@@A_major_disappointment maybe but most people just like to find things to gossip about and be upset about. They might not actually care.

[@visenya8]

Chan is pretty great, but he often forgets that an average Stay is like 15 years old. He is talking mostly to kids 10+ years younger than him, and he is expecting a level of maturity they simply don't have at that age. And let's not forget of one etiquette rule that is pretty much universal: if you have a problem with someone you talk to that person about it, you don't go to a third person (or your whole fandom) and complain about them behind their back.

[@Clairedollette_]

But that doesn’t make sense he didn’t talk about a specific person just a problem plus there are so many young stays that sometimes act more mature than the grown ass adults.

[@xrrgr]

it’s not a teenage-maturity issue, it’s a parasocial relationship maturity issue.

[@hotsexyangel]

How is he so great if he’s 30 years old and has the maturity level of a 4th grader? Like you just pointed out btw.

[@-dark-paradise]

Girl I was fifteen using social media and I assure me and a lot of others at that age were not being like this, maturity (and I mean exclusively internet media maturity) doesn’t come with age, this is a deeper issue

[@artlover4997]

​​​@ShineeSimpYes but the teenagers are the loudest unfortunately because most of the stays who are adults are mature enough to not jump to conclusions and go around hating. And in all honesty 15 years old is old enough to know not to cyber bully so this is a bigger problem within kpop fandoms and how quick they are to hate in the name of "defending" and "protecting" their faves.

[@ibrahimabarry4937]

One simple answer that I think people don’t realize: Korean fans will always be the priority of K-pop companies, when they complain companies act. Scandals only matter when Koreans are pissed. This reached Korean forums and they were dragging Chan and the whole group (Hyunjin in particular), he apologized because Koreans were annoyed that IVE (the GP’s darling at the moment) was getting hated on because of his words indirectly setting off his fans.

[@hrtsfrmnsg]

those korean forums are literally their korean fans those articles have zero interactions

[@hanniejaf]

and those forums actually don’t even represent the public opinion. pannchoa and the qoo are full of korean incels who hate foreign and female idols like their life depends on it. he was called all types of things for being australian nationality-wise even though he was born in korea and has lived there for longer than he has in australia. he is a korean man. those same netizens would drag chinese and japanese idols through the mud the moment they get the chance.

[@crystalice2458]

If that's the case then why did jyp make him Apologize? If the korean public didn't care and it was just international fans upset, jyp would have just moved on with buisness as usual. But because of the hate that stray kids are receiving, they had to release an apology

[@Hermionee-Jean-Granger]

@@crystalice2458 Read the latter half of Op's comment again. Koreans were annoyed that Ive was getting hate, so the company made Chan release an apology.

[@uritje]

As a stay when I was watching the live my first thought was that stans were going to use this to bully other groups. I think it was right for him to apologize because he should know his audience and the effects his words can have. I do think he sometimes forgets that there are tons of immature people listening to him. HOWEVER the authenticity and honesty Chan possesses is such a breath of fresh air, it is his strength and I genuinely believe that this is what kpop needs to become a healthier place. It is so natural for him to be just himself that it's only normal that it's harder for him to filter his thoughts and that now and then, he says something that isn't tactful. that is the shadow that comes with his gift. I think we should point out and not deny that his words have consequences but let's also give him grace and the space to make faults and grow.

[@_hehe2883]

Finally, someone neutral !!! 😔👊

[@asmaa_x223]

Well said.

[@Haley__Mae]

this was my opinion aswell, well said

[@ayanobadass949]

Finally someone said it. 😮‍💨

[@WickedKittie666]

It's not his fault that so called fans ran with his words and twisted them. That is the so called fans fault. He is being honest like he always is and he always get hate for it

[@Hgtv-ok3gl]

I totally see your point and that he should be more careful but I don't think blaming it all on chan and calling him a hypocrite is logical since I feel the argument 'kpop isn't ready for freedom of speech' is invalid because when will it be ready? cuz kpop isn't getting any less hateful and if we keep telling idols to stop sharing their thoughts or opinions it will only silence idols even more. And chan was also receiving threats by dive's claiming he was attacking ive. In the end I'm sick of idols having to apologize for their immature stans but I guess that's the only way to stop or lessen the hate though. (Yall I'm not going to baby chan he's a grown ass man and should've been careful but all I'm saying is that he never targeted/disrespected ive so he doesn't deserve the hate and even ive doesn't deserve the hate. My God)

[@mariapiccioni5974]

Exactly..

[@rosietales]

Tbh, I don't believe in freedom of speech in kpop. It's an entertainment industry that is used by the government to hide their issues. They scout children to train and work to give their companies money, there is exploitation, abuse and a whole lotta dark stuff behind the colorful clothes, sets and smiles the idols have. Besides, fans are and will always be part of the problem when they don't see idols as humans.

[@Djullyene]

Dives response are totally normal since stays where making extreme comments on wonyoung´s weight and sending death threats to the members, you can´t be that low and not expect that the consequences are in the same level of disrespect or even lower. While we both now these more extreme comments come from a minority, stays have been bashing IVE´s IG and trending tags wishing IVE to disband while also having 3k likes tweets wishing their disband.

[@Hgtv-ok3gl]

@@Djullyene I know ive doesn't deserve hate, and I know they have been just aggressive hate and they don't deserve that at all but that doesn't mean dives should go and send death threats and racial slurs to chan.

[@Djullyene]

@@Hgtv-ok3gl never said it was deserved but it´s definetly a reaction to your fandom behavior. All of this would never happen if Stay didnt run to bully IVE (wich they are still doing rn)

[@aSUGAaddiction]

I don't think he was wrong to voice his opinion, he was wrong for voicing it to Stays. I saw the vid then within 2 hours, Stays were posting he was talking about IVE! I was like "Where did he say that"? Stans as a whole are the old saying "A person is smart. People are stupid", so when ppl get together, mob mentality takes hold, and we get articles, tweets, and stupidity, and homeslice issuing a whole apology. It's happened more than once, and he should have known better. I hope he learned his lesson, but it's a loss for Stays because yall have shut him up. I don't want to hear any whining about why yall haven't had a Chan's room in a while. Yall don't deserve it.

[@lixm_is.thebest5196]

I honestly don't think he was wrong for voicing his opinion or voicing it to use stay reason being he wasn't being rude about it he was actually being very polite when voicing his opinion as i'm pretty sure we've all watched the video or even just the clip ya know he didn't say whether it was a girl or boy group so for stay to go and attack IVE was so uncalled for all he was saying is that he was disappointed in younger kpop groups bcs in Korea it is rude to not bow too ppl that are older than you like a proper greeting but i don't even consider them stays all the ppl that decided to hate on IVE when they don't even know if it was them or not is wrong Chan can't control what ppl say online so for him to have to apologize for something he didn't even do is sad and disappointing and for all the ppl who did hate on IVE i personally don't consider y'all apart of the fandom anymore

[@yamiiszn6]

@@lixm_is.thebest5196 agreed

[@skztheworld_]

all i remember was that some stays were pointing out ive cause of some clips (i think) of them not greeting other groups,i don’t really remember the full thing but thats all i know

[@kaylabunnie5283]

Stays did what they always do, their actions were predictable. Bang Chan knows his fandom very well and I think his actions were deliberate. The apology letter gives him cover and sets him firmly in the "victim" chair: "it's Stays/Dives/Internationals/Antis/K-nets fault not Chan's, he shouldn't have to apologize." Now Stays are talking about how to make up for embarrassing Chan...has pre-order for the comeback started yet?

[@whatevs7332]

@@kaylabunnie5283 what's the comeback got to do w anything tf. and yes it's the fans fault not chans so he does not need to apologise for voicing his opinion on people who aren't being respectful??

[@lovehobi523]

I think some people are still missing what this whole video is about. Yes, toxic fans are the core problem to this whole situation. But the main point of this video is that Chan needs to be aware that his opinions will always have consequences to them no matter what. It’s obvious that he had no ill intentions when talking about “basic etiquette”. He was simply sharing his experience at the events he went to. However, he is a public figure. It’s not like Chan is some random netizen giving his opinion on something, he is a whole kpop idol who has millions of fans that are ready to back him up!! His words has weight to them!! People will pick apart at every little sentence. Fans are gonna to instigate and try to find out who these unknown idols are. I appreciate how Chan wants to more open and create a close bond with stays but like the creator of the video said, this will create a toxic relationship. At the end of the day, stays are his fans not friends and it’s obvious that some obsessive fans have overstepped this boundary. I think Chan needs start setting clear boundaries and be mindful of the type of people who are watching him.

[@LovelyKissess]

Most of the people here didn't even bother to watch the video and the ones that did and still don't understand are the ones that can't handle someone they "love" being criticized for their fandoms actions. It was stated that he wasn't fully to blame, but his words are what led to to multiple groups, mainly ive and himself to receive hate. Therefore an apology was necessary But even after explaining, too many people are stuck on one part so they don't get it

[@98fran]

Agree!

[@Choi_Odi-by6ng]

Watching all of this unfold as someone who's not a part of any fandom, it's surprising just how detached from reality so many Kpop stans are. So many of you are referring to your favs as if you know them personally, as if he knows any of you personally, as if your 'relationship' with them goes deeper than just being fans. Some of y'all here need actual psychological intervention because oh my god??? It's actually baffling how DEEP your parasocial commitment is for these people. It's scary, I can't imagine myself being THIS deeply committed to protecting a person/group of people I don't even personally know. And one of you might comment that my name is literally a reference to a TXT member. And? I'm not going around here kissing their feet. I literally only listen to their songs.

[@LovelyKissess]

Agreed

[@via45]

Yeah it's actually so gross

[@thatoneperson8154]

"My Channie" "Our Idol" idk it feels icky

[@Choi_Odi-by6ng]

@@thatoneperson8154 It should. I'm as filled with many psychological problems as any Asian kid out there raised in a strict Asian household but damn I never reached THIS type of delusion

[@FahmidaSultana-u6u]

@@thatoneperson8154 you know whenever i see someone saying our boys to their idols i cringe a lott. Like calling someone yours when you dont even know them is Weird af.

[@Акра-м5б]

I think the defenders of Chan's honesty in the comments don't understand one fundamental difference between his honesty about his personal life and his honesty towards other idols. On the live, he didn't just "say how he felt" he literally complained to fans about his peers in the industry. Imagine, you go to the mall and a salesperson suddenly starts complaining to you about the workers in the neighboring departments. Even if he's complaining fairly, how ethical is it to tell that to customers? Yes, fans are to blame for the harassment of another group, but Chan really did act unethically and thoughtlessly by telling fans information that could have damaged the reputations of any of his colleagues (without legally risking anything himself, because he really didn't name names). And even the only reason he apologized was to pressure Dive, he will never be held accountable for ruining Woojin's reputation with vague phrases and without a single fact (because he also didn't name names or even a specific act). There is an important lesson to be learned by each side from this situation. Hopefully there will be no more victims of similar situations.

[@tolanisimpson5360]

THANK👏YOU👏 SO 👏MUCH👏 FOR👏 SAYING👏 THIS!!!😫😫😫😫😫 I literally love you for this amazing comment!!! Words cannot describe how FED THE F*CK UP I am with toxic Stays and their adamant need to defend and coddle Chan when he, along with them, was in the wrong in this context. Once again, I endlessly thank you for your well articulated, much needed comment.

[@speaknowstan.13]

This is why he always speaks vaguely cause he easily gets away with it. I mean just imagine being able to talk shit and ruin your colleagues reputation without having to worry about being sued in the later future because you didn't name anyone. He knows what he's doing and he enjoys it.

[@via45]

Honestly the fact this is the 3rd time (that we know of) truly speaks to the privaledge he has to still be a idol. What idol does that.

[@tolanisimpson5360]

​​​@@via45 @slayjin733 THIS!! We can't keep letting him get away with this behviour.

[@sunflower6654]

Just.. to argue a bit of the hypothetical situation, the difference between a salespersons' customer and STAYS, is that Chan and both stays have grown accustomed to the routine of Chan's Room for almost 4 years, and Chan was very familiar with Stays. I don't think this bond could be compared to someone you will probably only see once or twice. And hardly talk to. Although, this question he raised has been brought up by many other celebrities in the same industry!!! The difference is that they were not placed under the same spectacle as Chan. Therefore, the impact of their words wont matter as much, it won't cause a huge wave. In fact, I believe what Chan has done was effective, in a way, I bet most of his juniors now are more aware on being respectful in award shows and such.

[@NaDee-mh2po]

I have always been concerned about Chan because he's showing ALL of him, all of his beliefs and opinions and values etc to his fans. That is definitely something he should not do as a celebrity because I know fans and how they twist words to suit their agenda. And how they will drop you like a hot potato the instant you say something they don't agree with. If he shares all of him he won't have anything to keep for himself when they tear him down. And they WILL tear him down.

[@NaDee-mh2po]

@AmyLeeLYMab6 Haven't watched it but I am glad I wasn't the only one thinking it.

[@hrtsfrmnsg]

we have been with him for more than 5 years i think we are good and no 'drop like a hot potato' is about to happen

[@NaDee-mh2po]

@@hrtsfrmnsg True. I forget sometimes how ... Loyal specific part of fandoms can be. Though it is the rest who would definitely get swayed that worry me.

[@lunarialoonatic]

I do think he definitely should have saw this coming and I feel like he should have kept his values to himself. However to say he deserved the hate train is a different subject. He didn’t name any specific group. This could have been solved if dives or any fandom throwing shade watched his live bc a lot of them just missed the point. He said nothing degrading any group

[@NaDee-mh2po]

@@2FullMoons I do think it was Ive haters who's were taking the opportunity to hate under the disguise of being Stays. From what I have noticed the hate was too specific to be caused by either fandom.

[@Shuhuasfan]

If Chan is allowed to say wtv he wants he should be able to handle the backlash of his words 💀 like you guys are saying he’s allowed to his speech then let him handle his own consequences of his words.

[@tolanisimpson5360]

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!

[@via45]

Honestly he needs to apologize again becuase the first time did nothing

[@idk-xf6rd]

​@@via45if anything it caused more hate for ive

[@Shuhuasfan]

@@via45 if he didn’t apologize ive would get more hate and dive n stays would be arguing, him clarifying the situation and apologizing made it better and plus stays now dives n stays arent having fanwars

[@kakskwksjsbbshwjzbs]

AS A STAY, THISSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! like i cannot stress this enough, words have consequences and he KNOWS. he just speaks without thinking about what the backlash will be.

[@tothemoon4066]

For me the biggest problem is that Chan says that he will not give any names, but then he proceeds to talk about the ones that greeted him well. It excludes them from the list of "guilty" and we are left out with a few groups that can be targeted to bullying. He has the right to complain and be disappointed but he cannot give specific events where things happened and exclude certain people from the list unless he wants to drop the names straightaway. Otherwise he just feeds speculations and his fans will for sure take his words out of context to fit their narrative.

[@indescribableconfusion7017]

THISSS

[@yujinzz3835]

EXACTLY! he specifically mentioned an event which is the Music Bank in Paris. At that time, they only have 3 junior groups and we're left with IVE, ENHYPEN and NMIXX. There's no way that he's referring to nmixx and enhy since they're more close to them and have more interactions. So basically, it's IVE. And that's how his fans arrived to their theory that he was referring to IVE, even though there's a video of them bowing to them and their other senior groups.

[@MariaThePotterNut]

​@yujinzz people are really quick to write off en- when they're one of the groups that were also at kcon, and familiarity could lead them to being less respectful with greetings, especially as a group with so many foreign members, and ones who've shown a lack of respect for Korean culture previously...... See, you can do this about nearly any group, and its as valid or more so than accusations against ive.

[@thriftskull5549]

@@MariaThePotterNut I agree with this!!! Like stop the hate on IVE they are literally the most respectful even bowing too staff and persistently bowing!!!

[@thriftskull5549]

This is a great point like he was literally leading his fans to pick IVE like I’m literally a stay and a dive we have to have an objective look at things!!!

[@closed3000]

His fans need to realize that the reason Bangchan have to apologize is bc of their actions. And stop playing the victim card when you are wrong as well.Didn't meant that he deserved all the shits he got rn.

[@tolanisimpson5360]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THE TRUTH!!!

[@lovelylovelylovely.]

The way stays are acting they'll make him apologize again

[@friedchicken9553]

I always thought chan’s relationship with stays was a lil off and if I said this on twitter, you know I’d be cancelled immediately by defensive stays lol. But fr I admire idols like minghao and jaehyun who don’t feed into fans’ delusions during fancalls and says things as they are- and knows what to say and what to not say to fans because fans and idols are not friends. I know people like to joke about it “x idol is my bestie” but the reality is they are not. We don’t know them personally regardless of how many fancalls or fan signs we’ve attended.

[@BELIEVER78989]

Yeah I believe the same, fans and Idols should have a clear boundary between them, some Idols feed into fan delusions and some fans cross their boundaries, its so toxic.

[@si_multifandom_ch_5099]

Like did you see that live where Chan saying he was a daddy to Stays? That one was just weird wherever he joking or not 😭

[@Taylorc0de]

@@si_multifandom_ch_5099 LMAO i remember It physically pains me whenever i see clips of that😭

[@dollydoie]

minghao and jaehyun put those delusional fans in their places 😔🤞

[@begooddontactgood796]

Truee