Banjo-Kazooie Review & Analysis (Part 2 of 2)

[@biometrix_]

The actual reason behind the N64 version's lack of note retention is because the game didn't have enough memory to store every single note as a flag or something like that, which is why it was changed in Banjo Tooie to be 14 collections of 5 and a single collection of 20, and also changed in the XBLA version because the Xbox has orders of magnitude more memory than the N64.

[@Veegie]

I believe you're correct! Your comment made me curious, so I did a bit of research and back-of-the-napkin math. B-K used the 4-kilobit EEPROM save format, pretty common for on-cart saving on the N64. 4096 bits minus a handful of global flags (intro cutscene watched, stop n swop stuff, etc), let's call it 196 bits of global data for ease of math, which might be underestimating a bit. 3900 bits divided over three save files gives 1300 each. Assuming we can map a boolean flag as 1 bit, which seems reasonable, that's 900 bits for notes, 100 for Jiggies, 24 empty honeycombs, 115 mumbo tokens, 14 moves from Bottles (counting Spiral Mountain), 12 note doors, 8 warp cauldrons, 3 bits for unlocking the Cheato codes, 3 bits for applying them, for a total of 1179 bits. Then there's stuff in the lair that breaks or unlocks permanently. 9 bits for Witch Switches, 2 for the switches outside Clanker's Cavern, 1 for the rotating spring jump pad outside Gobi's Valley and 2 for the two breakable brick walls in the same area. 3 spider webs, 1 for the gate outside mumbo's hut near Mad Monster Mansion, 2 glass eyes on the big Grunty statue, 1 for the grate leading to the Rusty Bucket Bay picture, the grate leading to the second water level switch, 2 bits for the water level itself, and 1 bit indicating if Furnace Fun has been beaten. 25 more bits for a total of 1204. Next we need to save the player's current inventory. 8 bits for current total egg count, 7 bits each for red feathers and mumbo tokens, 5 bits for gold feathers. Game total note count/jiggy count can be calculated from the other flags and don't need to be saved. This brings the total to 1231. This still leaves the jigsaw puzzles, and we could be clever and store the state of those as "number of missing pieces". This means we'd need 1 bit for Mumbo's Mountain, 2 bits for Treasure Trove Cove, 3 each for Clanker's Cavern, Bubblegloop Swamp and the Honeycomb Picture, 4 each for Freezeezy Peak, Gobi's Valley, Mad Monster Mansion, Rusty Bucket Bay and Click Clock Wood, and 5 bits for Grunty's Picture for a total of 37 bits, bringing the total to 1268. Unfortunately, there's still the level timers to account for. The timer for each level maxes out at 18 hours, 12 minutes and 15 seconds, or 65535 seconds, which tells us that the timers are stored as 16-bit unsigned integers counting seconds. 16 bits for each main level times 11 (9 main levels + grunty's lair + spiral mountain) is 176 bits, bringing the total to 1444 bits. This puts us way over even the most conservative limit for 3 save files, considering any flags, global or local, I might have missed. This was a pretty fun mental exercise for a giant dork like myself, and you're definitely correct, so thank you for the comment! (Though for what it's worth, Banjo-Tooie used a 16Kbit EEPROM save and definitely could have handled a hundred extra flags per level per save file, not that that necessarily would have been a good idea!)

[@biometrix_]

Wait so let me get this right. The game could have had saving notes (and Jinjos, those are also saved in the sequel and the remake) if it only had 2 save files? If so, I'm going to change my personal gripe with the game from "no saving notes and Jinjos" to "2 save files."

[@Veegie]

@@biometrix_ I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that with certainty. I'm mostly speculating here on what's *theoretically* possible. Cramming all this data, and particularly the numbers, into these wonky formats would have likely introduced tradeoffs in performance and complexity. My little analysis is just about space. I'm no N64 programmer, so there's a lot of nuance that's probably lost on me!

[@TheThirdDaySH]

@@Veegie fascinating!

[@qwegol1]

that’s interesting, I finally understand why banjo tooie did that, my main gripe with that is that they made the game way bigger then made the collectable I actually liked finding and getting all 100 of spread out making everything feel empty as hell.

[@_miteo]

Gruntys attack that never misses is supposed to be countered by the yellow feather, it's a clever way to force the player to use absolutely every move they learned in the game!

[@Marianoejar]

Even with the design flaws in the final battle, I still love the fact that Grunty never ever does something that lets you hit her for free. There's no pauses to taunt, no giving you projectiles to shoot back. Every time you hit her enough in a phase, she does something so you stop hitting her, and you find a way to work around her new defense. The first phase lets you hit her because her broom is faulty (not her fault) The second phase she gets out of the way of melee attacks but you switch to eggs The third phase she gets out of range completely, but you start to fly The fourth phase she gains a shield to stop you from hitting her, but you start sending Jinjos her way There is never a moment where you feel "damn, if she didn't do this, I would never be able to hit her". Meanwhile Banjo Tooie is the complete opposite. Not only does she get out of her tank for no reason, she even holds back on purpose.

[@Goombachi]

Oh man, I didn't realize Rusty Bucket Bay muted the whistles like that to solve the puzzle, that's fantastic. Really good discussion on the subtler aspects of the game, like that and the camera control. Though I wouldn't say the never-miss attack of Grunty's is inherently a flaw, since it's meant to incorporate Wonderwing into the fight. Still, excellent job with this series. Really well done, truly, and I think I actually like your voice better in some regards to Matthewmatosis's. They both have their pluses, his offering a kind of biting objectivity yours doesn't have, but with yours being a lot easier for me to follow naturally, not needed to pause and re-listen to parts of the video to grasp the idea of what you're saying. Very eager to see the rest of this series, and if you continue it beyond the Rare platformers, I'll definitely watch them as well, unless I'd be concerned about spoilers or something.

[@SuperLufkin]

I hope you are still around and will make the rest of the series! These are very intelligent, well-made videos and KZbin needs more of them. Thanks for making them!

[@UnicornStorm]

even after watching countless analyses and reviews of this game, you can always learn something new. I didn't know about Gruntilda rephrasing her question in furnace fun when it's about herself, so thank you for that!

[@Scrubber89]

I've watched 100s of Banjo-Kazooie videos over the years but this is the first one where I've actually learned something new.

[@CoNteMpTone]

"This game is not perfect".... It sure is as close to it as any game gets though. Its one of the most complete masterpieces in existence.

[@WaddleDee105]

Excellent review! Like Mathew and a few others, you're doing what the paid critics should but don't do. I noticed it's been a while since you uploaded these. I hope that you continue making these.

[@AcerBandit]

This was excellent! I look forward to the next in this series.

[@dearcrowns]

Really nice and in depth analysis. Looking forward to what you do next!

[@Swan-may]

Still interested to see your thoughts on Banjo Tooie. It's helpful to see some thoughts on this game with less nostalgia goggles on -- my own nostalgia goggles are glued on, since it was the first game I ever played. Tooie, however, never stuck with me the same way, and I hope to hear if I'm not alone there.

[@ArcaneToaster]

This was an excellent review! You brought up a lot of interesting points and you were very fair to the game while still being critical, and the review flowed very well and never felt like it lasted for too long. This deserves FAR more views, this is probably the best review I've seen of the game. Looking forward to watching your Banjo-Tooie review, that is probably my favorite game!

[@lullaboid]

i came back to watch these videos again after thinking about the note score system, and i wanted to say something about it that i think you touch on but maybe don't explicitly state. here goes: another reason i like the note score system is that it discourages bad faith play, by which i mostly mean intentionally dying to reset something, or travel faster. it also encourages the player to always play actively, use their head, and do their best. i've played a lot of platform games, and in ones with lenient consequences for failure, i can often find myself playing a level or section in a way that feels like repeatedly bonking my head against the wall instead of using my head to try and find a way to climb it, if that makes sense. but when i play banjo kazooie, even when i'm not in a very tense situation and immediately at risk of dying and losing my notes, i still feel a little pressure to take every little piece of the game a little more seriously - wouldn't want to put myself at risk of getting into a really bad situation later. even though that almost never happens to me these days, the game still encourages me to play actively and stay engaged with it from start to end.

[@zacholesen1090]

This is probably the best game review I have ever seen on KZbin. Thank you and keep up the good work. I look forward to the episode on Banjo Tooie

[@mulvi747]

7:03 Oh no! 96 notes in click clock wood! That''s rough... you were so close to 100. By the way this is a fantastic analysis of this game

[@ECL28E]

Instead of a trivia game-show; the next one should've been a series of intricate obstacle-courses like in Double Dare of Hidden Temple

[@saligraphy]

This game is the reason I love video games

[@thinreaper]

Banjo Kazooie has always been my favourite 3D platformer, thanks for explaining to me why haha. Absolutely fantastic review man, easily up there with Matthewmatosis' Mario reviews. Didn't enjoy Banjo Tooie quite as much so I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it, subscribed!

[@Chaos3621]

Awesome job dude, although BK and BT are my two favorite N64 games and two of my favorite games ever I never realized how detailed and deep they were, such a technical marvels for their time.

[@chancemitchell4147]

My favorite Grunty rhyme is when you die that first time. “What’s wrong Banjo, is it tough? Let me know when you’ve had enough.”

[@NintendoFan]

When the next part comes out? :(

[@kawaiinekochick2]

I hope Banjo Tooie comes out soon!

[@NintendoFan]

10 months! This is the time we are waiting for the next part! You don't show any signal of life. The channel is dead? If not, when the Banjo-Tooie vídeo will come out?

[@Veegie]

+Nintendofan012 I'm alive! And the Tooie video is coming. A combination of writer's block, laziness and other obligations has been keeping it on the back-burner for a while, but it is coming. I'll be working on the script later today, since I absolutely don't want to take a year between these videos. It's already pretty embarrassing, I realize. Thanks for your interest, though! Knowing that people actually want to see the next video is a good motivator.

[@NintendoFan]

Veegie Woah! Thanks for the response! :D It's great to know you're still working on those. I'm very excited to see it. Keep up the good work. ;)

[@AwesomeNick94]

Channeling your inner MatthewMatosis, eh?

[@Veegie]

Nick Sohm Hahaha, more or less. =p I even credited him in the description considering just how much his work inspired me to take on this little project.

[@tomsawyer7230]

Only 4k views what a joke This is quality dude, great series, pls keep on going

[@dapsychoscrub1383]

Please.. come back. I wanted to see a Tooie review most.

[@Veegie]

Working on it right now! I'm posting very occasional updates on Twitter, but I've been making a lot of progress lately. The script and voiceover are all done, all that's left is editing, which is hard to say how long it'll take, but hopefully sooner than you think.

[@dapsychoscrub1383]

Veegie Yeah, I've been through editing. It sucks. Was not expecting a response! Thanks!! I thought you were gone from your channel.

[@jonsmith5058]

I’m really glad you recognize the benefits of losing notes on death. I always liked the higher stakes and tension. I think the Xbox version should make note saving optional.

[@CodyJB1292]

Haha I was already thinking you had a Matthewmatosis / ExoParadigmGamer vibe going on with the analyses. Great work, I cant wait for Banjo-Tooie!

[@EnderElectrics]

The only thing I'd change in Banjo-Kazooie, is that all the notes that you previously collected, will be grayed out. Like the purple coins in Mario Odyssey. Maybe the grayed out notes can act as an extra collectible. Altough not on the pause menu screen, they will give you an extra life once you collect 100. I don't know if notes did that, if not, then make notes do that!

[@neonspec]

Obviously very much inspired by MatthewMatosis but you do an excellent job of working with that formula. You're every bit as apt at examining the fine details of a game as he is. Big thumbs up! You guys should do some stuff together imo!

[@psychedeliccarlitox]

dude this review deserves so many views and likes, dude you went waaaaaaaay to deep in the game, you dont see that shit in nowadays games (like yeah sorta but not this deep). Love the review and u should make many more

[@nathanlehto8780]

Any time table on the next one?

[@silverarch0633]

I think the ending bit was all about rewarding the player for throughly exploring. I understand the criticism of Brentilda and the last note/jiggy blocks, but it works in rewarding the players who did more. I guess I can see why you don't like it, but I like it.

[@omearam]

This is fantastic! Really nice work.

[@Rubberman202]

Gruntilda is, was, and will likely to continue to be one of my favorite video game villains, for pretty much the reasons stated in this video; while not the most deep or complex character, her presence is always felt in this game regardless of where you are in her lair, or even in the individual worlds. Her rhymes and her personality, either through points where she chimes in to make one of her rhymes, or even through Brentilda's random factoids about her, also do a lot to give her a lot of appeal, to the point where, for me at least, Banjo-Tooie felt like a severe downgrade in regards to Gruntilda as an antagonist, though she still managed to be a fun character overall with how casually evil she can be. I always thought of the Musical Note limitations as a severe flaw with the game, but you make a good point in that it IS a good punishment for death, especially since this game still uses the lives system and it does more than simply kick you back to the start of a level, meaning there's motivation to actually being careful and trying not to die if you're low on health. Still, I didn't exactly miss the lives system or the Musical Note limitations when they went away in Tooie, either, since yeah, it's REALLY frustrating if you're trying to go for all the Notes and you have to go out of your way to get them without naturally going through the level like you did the first time around (Rusty Bucket Bay will forever be the bane of my existence in that regard, even though I do love that level). Speaking of frustrating, Grunty's Furnace of Fun is a great climax before the final battle against Gruntilda. I also like Tower of Tragedy in the sequel, but I love Furnace of Fun more because, even though it IS annoying to deal with those sudden death squares or to deal with death at all and have to restart the entire thing, I did enjoy strategizing what squares/questions to tackle and how to go about reaching Gruntilda. Not to mention, the use of the quiz is something I feel has deteriorated with each new Banjo-Kazooie game, culminating with Yooka-Laylee having the most intrusive, non-enjoyable version of that set-up so far; whereas Yooka-Laylee has three quizzes at three different points in the game, where it literally grinds your progression to a halt in order to answer 10 questions related to the game just so you can advance 10 spaces on a board in an incredibly shallow attempt to mimic Furnace of Fun while also missing the point of it completely, Furnace of Fun feels like a culmination of everything you've learned and experienced in the game so far and putting your knowledge (and skills, in terms of the timer challenges) to the test, while also, again, making it more than just a linear progression. As for the Gruntilda questions, I'll say this: good thing I wrote all of Brentilda's factoids down, that helped me remember the answers, to the point where I didn't even need to look at my written list when I finally got to Furnace of Fun. Still, for my replay, I had to look up where Brentilda was throughout Grunty's Lair to make sure I didn't miss a single one of her factoids. Not to mention, when I was a kid playing this game, I had no idea that Brentilda gave out three factoids with each encounter, I only bothered memorizing the first thing she said, so yeah, that was frustrating. Going back to Grunty one more time, while replaying the game, I do find it interesting how Grunty behaved in a relatively cowardly way towards the end of the game, running off and hiding behind a Jiggy portrait, then taunting Banjo and Kazooie further by saying they'll never get to the top of her lair where she actually is (until her living cauldron Dingpot decides to betray her and give the duo a boost up to where she is). I say this not because she seemed so full of herself up until that point (most villains can be all bark and no bite), but because when you actually DO fight her, she's a force to be reckoned with, to the point where Banjo and Kazooie need the Jinjos to help take her down! Seriously, not only is she a memorable character personality-wise, but she's also legitimately intimidating and imposing, a rare (pun somewhat intended) double threat, something I can't help but feel is diminished with Banjo-Kazooie's sequels, since each time, Grunty is assisted by something else, usually a machine or vehicle of some kind. As a side note, I recall reading that the final spell Grunty sends Banjo's way was meant to be a spell that turned him into a toad/frog, and the player had to assume the role of Tooty in order to collect the remaining Mumbo Tokens to have Mumbo change him back. Considering this would drag the game out further than it needs to, not to mention taking control of Tooty whereas the game was designed with Banjo and Kazooie's combined moveset in mind and some of the Mumbo Tokens can be missed and never obtained after a certain point, it makes sense why this idea was scrapped, which always left me feeling the final blast from Gruntilda was a pointless relic of that scrapped idea, though as you pointed out, Grunty is nothing if not tenacious, and in retrospect, given how much else she endured and went through in pursuit of her revenge, it makes sense for her character to attempt to take Banjo and Kazooie down with her, even if she ultimately missed. It's a shame you said Clanker's Cavern is a weak level, it's one of my favorites, even though yeah, it is kind of aimless, not to mention it's one move, one that's pretty much a requirement to get past certain enemies and surviving Grunty's homing attacks, is pretty far out of the way and requires a lot to get to.

[@toranar5545]

I can only hope you'll keep making videos,because this analysis was extremely well done. I loved it. I'm subscribing in hopes that you're (or will be) active again :D. Cheers!.

[@Youcifer]

I love you and especially love the fact that you have basic music knowledge

[@atlekristiansen4975]

15:26 - You could write down what Brentilda is saying, using keywords. You don't have to memorise, even though that would make it easier if you are able to. I never had any problems searching for the answer among 30 alternatives. I had more problems believing Grunty played in a band. Maybe you're doing it on purpose for the sake of the video, but I think you throughout the review are pointing out several «problems» that aren't problems at all...

[@ComposerKuandohan]

Excellent work, I would watch more game analysis of yours if you made more in the future.

[@hatwearinggamer]

Hyped for more! :)

[@knockupwood]

Loved the video!

[@Lyoshamuz]

Amazing work i am impressed

[@fifoffjfufs]

good video, very detailed.

[@kevinhannan4893]

Yo, where's the next vid?

[@Deadforge]

on the xbox version you only lose a life upon death and if youbquut the gane your lives are reset to 3. You dont lose anything elsebin the game which I'm happy about but i need to get the 64 version.

[@CarrieUnderwoodIL]

How do you not have more views/subs?

[@jimdotbeep]

I strongly disagree with your critiques of the game's difficulty. Banjo-Kazooie is one of the easiest games to ever receive and E rating.

[@dotcomGone]

Lol. Uncommon.