Banned athletes competing in Armwrestling

Going backwards.
Armwrestling cant be considered a real sport when we cant follow simple rules.
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[@voiceofarmwrestling]

Im really sorry but I think that you should be not allowed to compete if you went to a drug tested event and failed a test. How weird is that people think cheating should be ok even when you get caught.

[@EvolutionaryE]

Thank you for everything you do for arm wrestling ❤ Do you think athletes who failed a drug test should banned from events that don’t drug test? To me, that makes no sense. Sidebar: the food we eat is chock full of drugs. Our global health care system is based upon taking drugs. “Don’t do drugs” is an outdated saying that shows a lack of understanding about the world we live in.

[@EvolutionaryE]

I feel like the questions are about the punishment fitting the crime, tyrannical practices/actions on behalf of AW organizations, hurting the sport through the nature of the punishment, hypocrisy of banning athletes from “dirty” events, and punishing athletes for the actions of other athletes. I agree that getting punished for breaking rules makes sense.

[@efi4100]

WHO are we talking about

[@-RBR]

I fully believe that KoT and EvsW should implement drug testing as well. It's going to be good for the sport.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@efi4100 There was a guy who competed in the Arizona State 220lb round robin who they didn't know was temporarily suspended from armwrestling by WADA. After learning of this, they denounced his results.

[@RideWithJosh696]

meanwhile all the top arm wrestlers are doping not that hard to see.

[@ptpsupportercard4215]

It’s different since they’re literally the BEST. All that matters is that fans and everyone wants to see what is the maximum potential a human can reach in the sport, roid or not, just like many other sport. But it sucks for the more amateurs, but also it does make it fair for naturals. But if the event is an all natty event, then doping guys shouldn’t be entering and should have separate leagues for ones doping

[@RICHIE_RICH89]

Ya its top level pro leagues its in every sport. This is not ameture hr. There would not be pro league without peds. It would be pretty dam boring. You would never see people competing on the level there is in any sport.

[@blackenedsprite8542]

We are talking about guys taking drugs entering competitions that prohibit drugs.

[@mr5jr]

King of the table and East vs West don’t prohibit doping…

[@armwrestlingsecrets]

@@mr5jrExactly. The biggest competitions that people are actually interested in are full of steroid users for sure. Nobody cares about the 25,000 amateurs out there. It’s just the way it is…and will always be.

[@marco6993]

What do we learn from this? If you're going to take stuff, it's best to play in the top 10%, otherwise you'll be banned.

[@Yuri-cd9xi]

What about Morozov that competed in WAF tournament days ago?

[@bobby34u]

You'd have to disqualify the entire Georgian team Lol

[@Astro-us3fd]

@@Dmgolfer22there’s a list of all banned cases at waf and Genadi has been banned before for doping

[@highlyalloyed9296]

You’d have to disqualify most athletes at the top, virtually all of them regardless of country

[@Lagia7]

cringe

[@arncj18]

@@Lagia7 agreed

[@djomlatebra]

U mean all EvW and KOTT?

[@Lil_Smelly]

5:58 "You broke the rules and now you're trying to escape it by going to a different country and competing or LEAGUE THAT IGNORES IT" Ray, I'm a big fan of your work, and your earlier content helped me in my armwrestling journey, but this is kinda hypocritical coming from someone who is present at pretty much every EvW and KoTT event, whether you're commentating, announcing or competing... I've bought every EvW and KoTT and watched the PPV's evolve into the best thing that this sport has had in a long time, but how can you say the above quote when there are Georgian athletes competing at the events you yourself promote when the entire national Georgian team has been banned from participating in any European or World tournaments I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm genuinely curious why you are not up in arms about EvW and KoTT accepting athletes from a banned country if you believe this harms the sport in such a great way?

[@WheresMyMotivation]

I think it's common knowledge and acceptable that EvW and KOTT are not tested because It's more about entertainment. A tested event won't make the event more entertaining if anything it adds many more layers of complexity and uncertainty. It would just tank the promotions from a business standpoint.

[@B-TNT]

My thoughts exactly.

[@Lil_Smelly]

@@WheresMyMotivation Yeah okay, lets view it from the "its more for the entertainment" viewpoint, guys like Ray want AW to become an olympic sport, right? Then how exactly would that be achieved when every league out there has a different set of rules and a different interpretation of the rules that they share in common? If its more for entertainment, why is Levan the number 1, why does KoTT and EvW have world titles that to all intents and purposes, ARE the official titles that everyone looks at when they think of the "world champ at X division" Promotions that are strictly based on entertainment should not be considered valid when it comes to titles, yet in AW its literally the opposite and its like saying the official wrestling world champ is not the Olympic Wrestler, but rather the roided out WWE belt holder It all just seems hypocritical to me honestly, I'm not defending gear and rule abusers, but as coach Ray said it himself, you have to hold EVERYONE accountable for such bans, otherwise, everything loses meaning and it makes everything seem like it has no consequences

[@WheresMyMotivation]

@@Lil_Smelly ray is one guy with an opinion I don't think his opinion is the end all be all of what should/will go down. Ray is doing his best to explain the direction the sport needs to go as a whole with some missing details of course but the goal is there nonetheless. All of this is unorganized because Engin started this from the ground up so it will take some time for things to sort out more appropriately/professionally. Another reason for the hypocrisy is that WAF can send out orders suddenly and everyone else has to change their stance, opinions, and actions to move in the direction that WAF wants to go. They hold supreme power and a lot of the times they don't take fans and athletes into consideration in a justified way.

[@Lil_Smelly]

​@WheresMyMotivation totally get it, although Ray isn't just some random dude with an opinion like you and me, he's the owner of one of the biggest AW channels and the current president of the Latvian armwrestling federation so his vies are going to be skewed... I know it's a hard and mentally challenging situation for him, as he can't outright denounce WAF as it brings a lot of advantages such as government funding and official sport recognition and it does bring the sport closer to the Olympics, but I just can't help myself to call out hypocrisy when I hear it

[@Tamarack_Barbell]

The #1 guy is on more gear than a racehorse. Testing won't help the sport much at all.

[@blackenedsprite8542]

Firstly: incorrect. That racehorse is part of a stable, and he's on more gear than that stable. His stack would kill a single racehorse. Second, no, it won't. I can see arm wrestling having 'untested' leagues and regular ones. We don't even need to test half these dudes. If the goal is Olympics, and that happened tomorrow, literally no top heavyweights could go

[@LaddRusso91]

If the goal is to become a legitimate, clean sport the the biggest leagues should have much stricter testing and lead by example. Right now it seems like PED use is encouraged, especially at the heavier weight categories. When you see all the enhanced guys easily beat the natural ones, it's just ridiculous. Either be strict or be open about it and anything goes. Also banning athletes just for political reasons is nonsense.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

In this case, an athlete was temporarily suspended for trying to compete at a tested event and tested positive. PED use is fine and it's not the issue here. The issue here is trying to compete against natural opponents as a PED user.

[@TheJohnbusi]

The solution will be pretty simple, yet probably difficult to apply, and is to simply adopt the bodybuilding competition division in natural and non-natural

[@PawelBajolski]

​@@TheJohnbusinot gonna work. People still take and just stop some time before

[@lovePotato]

Basically don't get caught, make WAF clean, use steroids for EvsW and then repite next year

[@adhominem9188]

Raimonds can you explain why Morozov was allowed to compete at Asians? im so confused

[@aminettay]

Politics

[@mrditkovitch8358]

Because Morozov is natural 😅😅

[@WheresMyMotivation]

Maybe Morozov has better ways to hide the substance.

[@djomlatebra]

Cuz Kazakhstan is in Asia! Right?

[@ZaneGeeting]

Because cheating a drug test is incredibly easy - Guy who competed at the top level of powerlifting for a decade plus.

[@Mike-n6u9t]

We're talking about if you compete in one League you're not allowed to compete in another league and we're talking about people not being allowed to do certain people's podcast because the owner of a league don't like that person

[@JeffJ337]

Why cant there just be a distinct separation between clean armwrestling and then steroid armwrestling?

[@AminEttayeb]

There is - pro sport vs amateur.

[@Lagia7]

There is. But WAF wants to ban them from even the non-testing sections of the umbrella

[@Nikoncha]

@@Sumppa They have done that for decades. In fact the majority of big names in any tested leagues are also taking steroids. Until they actually figure out how to do drug testing properly (it doesn't really work now, and it's also done half assed as well) there will always be a bunch of "whateverittakes" enhanced competitors in tested leagues.

[@WheresMyMotivation]

Countries with laws, ethics, and morals can't get behind it 100%. It's one of those things that will always be controversial.

[@Neilpickpocket]

The problem is that organizations that are unaffiliated with WAF understandable do not want to play sheriff and enforce bans they didn't implement. No organizer wants to be involved in confrontations with athletes. Especially if they are already showing up to the event and have potentially traveled a long distance. WAF isn't some pristine uncorrupted organization that we should all bow down too. Take the case of the Bulgarians that are banned from WAF. Cvetan, Plamen, Yordan. As far as I know they are not banned for drug use. They are banned for BS political reasons. Should they not be allowed to compete anywhere else? PS. As a beginning armwrestler who has no intentions of ever taking PEDs I am in full support of doing whatever we can to clean up the sport as much as possible. I just think there is a lot of hypocrisy going on with this topic that also needs addressing.

[@aminettay]

Fully agree. Waf is the main force that holds armwrestling from developing

[@ChrisBurton-wk9ie]

Respectfully disagree. If they get caught doping in a promotion that tests then ban them from that promotion. If your going to ban them from all promotions where nearly all athletes are doping then that is just hypocritical. Levan admitted to using sarms, are you going to advocate for his banning as well?

[@Lightitupp1]

Exactly, why would you ban someone from an event that has no rules regarding using gear because that athlete got caught in an event that does have rules against it? It doesn't logically follow.

[@xcforce9067]

I believe he is talking about amateur competitions not professional. In the future if professional promotions will enforce doping rules it will affect everyone including Levan. But that can only be promotion specific.

[@ChrisBurton-wk9ie]

@@apollozid simply ban them from WAF. That's where there responsibility and authority should end.

[@LeahRobb]

Ray's point is, DON'T COMPETE AT TESTED EVENTS WHILE ON PEDS thinking, 'If I get caught, I'll just aim to arm-wrestle at EvW or another event where they don' know of your ban. If you are 'Levan', and you don't arm-wrestle at tested events, then yeah, ok, go arm-wrestle at professional juiced-up events. At least you are not being dishonest.

[@tracireed2750]

Ray, the issue is the inconsistency. Levan and others are pumped full of dope. Ban users from that specific competition that doesn'tallow if caught. Why not go compete in a league that doesn't test? It makes professional arm wrestling look like WWF. The inconsistency is the issue. Might be time to start testing in EvW and KOTT. That would make most sense.

[@rosco_174]

all this topic are hypocrite sh*t

[@goldtaker95]

the ones who use dont go to tested competitions? what a bout morozov competing at a recent waf event? just shows the doping tests there are a complete joke

[@Gonzo3313]

@@Sumppa as well as LEVON!!!!

[@Nikoncha]

@@Sumppa Every idiot and his mom can pass these pee in a cup drug tests. Only way to properly do it (as of today) is to repeatedly blood test the athletes every week year round, and even then they can still use stuff like lower does of HGH and probably other undetectable compounds too.

[@ZaneGeeting]

​@@Sumppait's super easy to cheat a test. Short Ester gear is out of your system in less than a day. Gene doping through stem cells cannot be tested for. Designer steroids cannot be tested for, etc.

[@dylancurbjumper]

The biggest problem is incomplete testing. If you want to compete in a tested event you need to pass a screening, there should be no "8% random testing" it should be 100%

[@AminEttayeb]

If it's an amateur league like waf, or ifa or far and etc, and they clearly stated that peds are illegal - they have every right to prosecute. But, most of these leagues are led but very messed up people, and they only see this sport as a money making machine. So they try to influence other commercial leagues to follow their lead and also ban athletes. So in my opinion, if the athlete is banned for a violation of the rule - its fine. He can join another league. But if it's same bullshit as with Georgians or Bulgarians being banned from waf - that's fucked up.

[@EvolutionaryE]

I have no problem with punishments for violating the rules. I think lifetime bans are stupid, they shrink the sport, it doesn’t help anyone to do lifetime bans. Better to just make them pay for their testing for every “clean” tournament. All that matters is that they pull clean, so why not encourage to pull clean? The rules about punishing athletes who pulled with doping athletes are absolute nonsense, completely hurting the sport. If an event doesn’t test its athletes, that’s fine, doping and non-doping athletes can pull each other. If athletes want to pull at a non-doping “clean” event, that’s cool too, as long as they test clean for that event. You need to make arm wrestling as accessible as possible. To me, the solution is simple: if you are competing in an event that doesn’t allow doping, test everyone. It’s that simple.

[@Corriemcphee]

Hypocrisy at its finest right here. Take a stance, but don't be 2 faced on the subject.

[@SwedenArmwrestlingTelevision]

This video inspired me to a similar video! You're an active inspiration for armwrestling brotha!

[@dfk331]

In amateur competitions, all of the above may be relevant. But in professional sports, where 99% of lightweights and 100% of heavyweights use doping - doping tests can simply become a tool of repression.

[@AdamLighter1]

I understand your moral perspective, but they are banned only in WAF, so they are open to armwrestle anywhere where organizers dont care. Its a discussion for sure

[@A_Mystery_Man]

One of the situations I saw was an athlete that was temporarily banned from the sport by WADA.

[@rjharrold2907]

​@A_Mystery_Man I'm pretty sure WADA can't say jack shir about who's in evw though. I don't see why they could

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@rjharrold2907 This was just an Arizona State round robin. The problem wasn't doping, but that he tried to enter a tested event and tested positive for gear. To be clear, Arizona State was not the tested event, but he was invited to compete in the event, and the promoter denounced his results afterwards because of his ban.

[@brianmuttillo228]

In my opinion, Until all events are tested, armwrestling looks more ridiculous for penalizing one athlete in a room full of enhanced athletes…. Especially when everyone knows it.

[@adamthatoneguy8221]

You, Neil and RVJ definitely should have a livestream soon. Don't understand why so many people are against this mindset...really crazy how many people think cheating is acceptable. Lol

[@nighthawk0077]

No thanks, don't need RVJ ranting and raving about this like a loon.

[@Nikoncha]

RVJ is not natty, but keep falling for his lies.

[@bernardo2151]

RVJ has always been on TRT+ Test

[@arncj18]

Rvj keeps yapping yet the only time he come out to play from his bird's cage was vs guys 2 heads smaller than him. Cause his reasoning was "those ppl juice, but my bicep is large and i'm larger". And the second time was at armgods vs a clean guy. He says in podcasts he has wins over "this that and the other" mentioning big names. I caught him in a lie when he said Chaffee, the match is online, and he never passed the center vs Dave, got melted, yet he phrases it like "i got wins" yea you got 1 round on bs double fouls on Dave. if that is reason to brag, i think i have my opinion on Rvj. Unfortunately the guy is bipolar and a light alcoholic so you never know what you get.

[@Nikoncha]

@@arncj18 The only thing bigger than his steroid enhanced biceps is his ego. He legit thinks he works so much harder than anyone else, mfer everyone works hard at the top. Even I work hard at the gym and I am just a natty wonnabe powerlifter. I wouldn't be surprised if I put the same or more hours into the gym weekly than RVJ, yet he's constantly yapping claiming to be holier than thou and natty. Nobody has a 20 inch lean (not shredded) biceps naturally. Even Larry Wheels has been measured at 19,5 inches many times. But of course RVJ has THE BEST genetics in the entire universe (according to himself).

[@dcgaming6898]

the problem i have with all of this is most heavy arm wrestlers take something or other. So just cause they didn't get caught doesn't make them any better than the one that got caught.

[@valitsemllaluokanavahyvaks3556]

Testing for a sport with 80% of pullers using gear is really stupid.

[@bobopaleo]

80%? wow, where did you pull that number from. Maybe on pro side that works, but in amateur... not even close

[@fjm7132]

80% where? In East vs west? Possibly. But in WAF and IFA competitions most are natural.

[@Lightitupp1]

@@fjm7132 I don't think you can make that assertion, we simply don't know what the percentage in those leagues are.

[@bobopaleo]

@@Lightitupp1 it's not high in amateur, most countries in europe at least test their athletes. problem is east side

[@Lightitupp1]

@@bobopaleo Again you can't make the assertion that it is not high, even with testing you can simply stop taking certain drugs and let them clear out of your system and it won't be detected or you can take bio identicals like test and not trip the test to epi test ratio even while on a moderate dose while getting tested. Let alone being on 500-1000mg's leading up to the competition for weeks.

[@AminEttayeb]

Once you became a pro, you shouldn't come back to amateur events. Regardless of the doping. Let others compete.

[@chrzoc]

Ray I love you, but this is one of the most hypocritical videos you’ve ever made bro

[@chrzoc]

And just to make it clear, I’m against PED’s. But there is some serious talk out of both sides of the mouth going on here. Not necessarily by you, but…yeah. Too lazy to type more. I think the scope of what I’m referring to should be self evident.

[@Gb-gp6xq]

The athletes who are not competing in tested leagues all together, seem to get a pass also and harming the sport as well .... doping should be banned universally otherwise doesn't make sense whatsoever

[@Nikoncha]

Anti doping doesn't work. The tests are dogshit and easy to pass. The only way that would be possible is if they actually worked, but you'd need repeated weekly blood tests from every athlete year round, and even then there are probably some stuff they can take to get around it.

[@1983mack1983]

Three things. The IOC is so hyper corrupt that countries no longer care to bid on the corrupt Olympics which is a shame to the athletes that train so hard. It's a bit hypocritical to talk about doping so passionately while being a key figure in EvW where there is no drug testing and the overwhelming majority of the athletes are sauced up more then a plate of spaghetti. If you're banned in one federation for doping then go ahead and compete in open events. Strongman is a professional sport with zero drug testing and been televised since the 80s.

[@WheresMyMotivation]

WAF needs world level credibility recognition while EvW and other professional leagues don't because they don't promote themselves in that light.

[@GAM3R3D]

The amazing thing is, that in most sports the bests, professionals are using similar amount of PEDs than in armwrestling, they have just much bigger medical background to cover these things. But whatever, people will always complain about everything.

[@rjharrold2907]

100%

[@Stevenforclaz]

That's what YOU think, if not proven they are in vast majority clean (athlet who use PEDs are often caught in big controlled sports)

[@WheresMyMotivation]

@@Stevenforclaz All major athletes in publicized events of any sport are more than likely juicing. It's not even a question when you reach the top and you want to stay there for as long as possible.

[@GAM3R3D]

@@Stevenforclaz it's not what I think, this is what the past shows. Of course if its not proven we should look at them as clean blablabla. But in reality cycling is one of the most tested sport, yet they are riding faster, sometimes most dominantly than riders who were caught before. In sports there are great amount of money, people wants to be the best, so they take drugs and in more serious sports (see cycling above) they have a medical team to help them cover the ped usage, while anti dopping agencies try to get new kind of tests to be able to show. Of course its a much bigger topic, but dont be naive.

[@TheMuelsaGD]

Levan Saginashvili doping: 📈📈📈

[@myownbigbang4655]

Artom in asia championship is just a slap on your opinion 😢

[@jacobobos]

Pushing towards the Olympics is bad for the sport and most nonsensical thing we are currently doing

[@silvergamer2449]

Why?

[@sundigest1121]

Why?

[@jayclean5653]

Why? Is it because all your favorite pullers are roided out of their minds?

[@jacobobos]

@@jayclean5653 Clarance0 has a pretty nice explanation in his video about why he is against anti-doping

[@Tamarack_Barbell]

The Olympics is a terrible organization. It's better that armwrestling doesn't get attached to the shitlympics whatsoever.

[@ConnoisseurOfExistence]

Bodybuilding, strongman, most of powerlifting, aren't tested. So don't say all sports are. I personally think there shouldn't be any testing at all. By catching some people and banning them, you simply allow others that dope but haven't been caught to win. Doing control is a joke and a sh*tshow. Let athletes compete however they want.

[@Pumped.Arm1]

But its not right because someone that takes PEDS is in advantage strenght wise,and because of that he is in position to Win

[@SwollenSatyr]

Great video, Ray, and something that needs urgent discussion. You are completely correct in that the ultimate recognition of a sport is its presence at the Olympics, because so many conditions have been met (from guidelines to societal acceptance) in order for this to occur. I think of Greco-Roman Wrestling at the Olympics and how it operates in the different federations, and it is very strict on testing for a reason...if we want a sport to become universally accepted, and universally practised, success in that sport cannot be dependent on finding loopholes in the pharmaceutical industry to purchase drugs that give the edge. Importantly, as great sportsmen begin their journey when they are children, such a practice cannot be promoted in a healthy society. In Eastern Europe one sees many children practicing and enjoying Greco-Roman Wrestling and other Olympic sports. Parents would not be so keen to sign their children up to a sport that ultimately required unsafe drugs to find success. These guidelines are an important step on the Olympic journey. Thanks again. Stay Strong & LOVE Armwrestling.

[@RICHIE_RICH89]

Any ban is bs . Im super against any ban of any type. People need to wise up and realize how bad bans are the bs.

[@Day-ZDuke]

The main standing issue is cost. Who is going to pay for all this testing? And unless the testing is done randomly basically year round, it only becomes an IQ test when you’re just testing near competition The UFC comparison is useless; they didn’t implement testing until they were a Billion dollar company aiming to go be sold & become publicly traded. They want to be a “major sport”, AW will never be that. & the main purpose of combat sports is to hurt your opponent, so there is much more rationale for testing. Additionally,

[@mandrey85]

Someone broke some made up rule that bans every substance there is, and now he is not allowed to armwrestle anywhere? What kind of BS is that? Not even allowing someone to go to practice because of it. Give me a break. Calling promoters to bully them around should be banned. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Let people do what they like, without this, "we want to be olympic sport", bs.

[@Mike-n6u9t]

I like how you manipulated it but you know that's not the banning we're talking about

[@armwrestlingprofessor]

I agree with you Ray. If we want to get armwrestling into the Olympics there must be a clear ruleset that PEDs are not acceptable

[@irvingbrown2389]

I think there’s two schools of thought! One, clean it up so it’s taken seriously for Olympics , more serious sponsorship and events, which is great for those pursuing that path. Two, the more commercialized, KZbin, grass roots movement that capitalizes on a bad boy image and basically WWE, Slapfight , UFC atmosphere, shit talk n whoop ass! Which is also good! But either choose one or the other! I’m not sure both can coexist? Maybe though! I doubt anything will change so I guess we’ll see. Thanks coach Ray! I truly appreciate the effort!

[@hanzo52]

Atheletes that has been caught in the past but now are at a top level, should they still be allowed to compete?

[@Nikoncha]

@@Sumppa No, because once you have taken PEDs you will always have an advantage unless you completely destroy your natural hormone profile. Even after 4 years there can be a competitive advantage. They can also continue taking PEDs while banned and not being tested and then just come off when they are allowed back. If you're gonna ban people for PEDs, it should be for life. Now since drug testing doesn't work as intended, they should just remove it all together and let everyone do as they see fit, until they can figure something out to make the playing field even (which will never happen as you can't monitor every athlete 24/7).

[@Wisoo]

How many arm wrestlers in the top 10 of each weight class do you honestly think are clean, and how many do you honestly think are on some sort of gear?

[@BenOfficial94]

Problem is there isn't enough money in any league to do legitimate tests. Doesn't mean there is no reason to try to do tests, but if the majority of people still take gear and are able to get around the tests, I don't see the point. Scapegoating one athlete when the rest of the people competing are still taking gear and winning competitions but are luckier or smarter to dodge tests.

[@Ghostwriter33]

The elephant in the room is that organizations such as EvW and KOTT are promoting PEDs by not testing. Does that not hurt the sport even more? To be ethically consistent the same rules should apply to all events.

[@Henoxen]

Well if you wanna make it one day you have to do it. everyone at the top is using especially heavyweight / super heavyweight. Levan sat a very high bar. it is sad because armwrestling is fun to watch regardless if someone is juicing their brains out or not. East vs West should set an example and ban PEDs and the rest will follow

[@omardamico]

We could talk about enhanced athletes and steroids for months. That’s the point: Sport is entertainment as well and people from home want to see “freaks” (freaks in a good way, freaks of streght/size). No one is watching Olimpia level bodybuilding to see an average physique. No one is watching Olympic Weightlifting to see average lifts. No one is watching strongman to see average performance. Same for football, basketball, cylism and so Armwrestling, at some level (sadly, depends on your point of view) it’s just part of the sport/performance.

[@Jdm5299]

What you mean to say is if you know how to pass drug tests, you're allowed to compete.

[@miroslavzicha99]

What could be reasonable estimation for percentages of PED use amongst world class arm wrestling athletes? Let´s say in "under 80 kg", "80-100 kg" and "100+ kg weight category".

[@megyskermike]

Some people will always get away with it/be clever with it. I understand why people would want it, but it also has the potential to ruin the sport for many/be unfair to clean athletes. NFL is supposedly "tested" yet 99% of them are geared out of their minds. If you pick a side, it has to be very clear, either incredibly strict and frequent testing (which is costly) or none at all.

[@dinozgb]

Yeah, Olympics... boring. Let them fight for more money, make sport interesting for the public... who cares if they are taking "TRT therapy", HGH or stem cells. Without that, all athletes over 40 would be in retirement. Just be real. Without drugs, you wouldn't have 90% of top tear arm wrestlers, which are champions in their weight classes.

[@alexandrnoriltz2920]

Based.

[@Nikoncha]

99% of top arm wrestlers. As of today, probably 99,9%. (basically 100%)

[@dinozgb]

@Nikoncha I know. I said 90% just to not hurt some feelings 😉 Even if they test clean in the future, they will still carry benefits. Muscle and bone density, stronger tendons...

[@Nikoncha]

@@dinozgb yea

[@veselingramatikov]

Evrebody is on steroids :)

[@J_Skaaren]

I dont like that there is no testing in the biggest leaugues, but at least there is some kind of clarity in that you probably will meet someone who is probably juiced, hence no testing. But if you compete in a tested event while juicing, you are a cheater and you are breaking the rules. Totally agreeing with you that one has to take the consequences of doing such a thing.

[@Mike-fc3hd]

Its funny when people say non-ped events would be less entertaining..if no one did it, it would still be competitive just not with huge people.

[@aledagaro8075]

Do you think that we are all stupid? Every east vs west armwrestler are on steroids, that's why you do it in Turkey. WAKE UP PEOPLE

[@misterbarcafan10]

Ez dislike for nonsence, 95% on gear i am sure

[@mcc1172]

I mean I agree as long as there is fair treatment. But if that's the case what about the superheavyweight division and really all of the top guys in each weight class at KOTT/EVW? Levan is basically a walking steroid experiment, Morozov looks like the hulk, Dave Chaffee is built like Popeye. Even Ermes is a good example because we know what his natural body composition looks like and it sure as hell isnt what he's walking around at now.

[@mump71]

Not accepting drug testing is the thing that is holding professional jiu jitsu back. The sooner that a sport regulates itself the better. Look at the growth of the UFC after they began drug testing. Arm wrestling is growing ,learn from other successful growing sports . Regulate the sport and it grows.

[@Homefreeliving]

BJJ tournaments are openly talked about letting their athletes be on juice. You can tell almost all of these guys utilize doping agents. It’s a shame I bodybuild , and have done this completely natural. It’s the world we live in. God sees all, so just follow your path and stay true! I have watched Armwrestling for almost 20years now , and if you test a lot of these athletes, I think the game would change big time!

[@TopTrollKing-fu8yp]

BJJ tournaments do not make money in all fairness

[@Homefreeliving]

@@TopTrollKing-fu8yp check into the new tournament coming out 2.5 million going to competitors , give it time

[@blackenedsprite8542]

If they're cheating already you can't appeal to them with 'you're ruining the sport'. They don't care, they care about winning, not the sport. It's on arm wrestling to implement the strategies, checks, balances and mechanisms to A catch these people, and B make sure other promotions can know about them. It is a weird posture considering literally all top level guys are on something (sorry, spoilers if you're new) but ultimately if you're juiced and enter a natty competition you should suffer consequences (hell, even if you WERE juiced and aren't any more you still have advantages you wouldn't normally have). However, all that being said, it's a difficult line to walk, saying someone is banned for life, or banned at all, when you can flip to any ppv and see people holding belts and being described as 'the best ever' or 'world champion' and they're on MORE gear, and shown publicly as the face of the sport. Are we going to start drug testing the biggest, most notable ppv the sport has in kott and EvW? If not then i don't know what to tell you, enforcing the rules is kinda laughable and meaningless. I'll tell you right now, Levan won't be competing at the Olympics under drug testing and random drug testing conditions, and he's supposed to be 'the best arm wrestler ever'. Neither are any of the guys mentioned alongside him. So what now? Tl;dr if seems wrestling wants to be taken seriously this is exactly the bullshit it needs to sort out

[@bigbore4498]

Rules are rules. But you will never see a natty athlete on the big stage like KOTT or EvW.

[@Rondigity92]

Meanwhile Levan is putting out videos advertising his sarm use and how good they are, and paul linn has veins on his ear lobes. To be taken seriously as a sport that all needs to be stopped

[@Kevingrip]

I'm the reason people have to take gear, they don't wanna lose.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

Same. Just too strong. lol

[@Kevingrip]

@@A_Mystery_Man ❤️

[@storageaccount1104]

Completely agree with you Ray, but given that 99% of the top level is doping I can't imagine how to put this into place. Can you imagine drug testing super heavyweights?

[@xcforce9067]

Its up to tournament organizers to monitor athlete compliance to the rules. it would be naive to rely on athlete's high morality, particularly those who already cheated. IFA and WAF should establish a mechanism to excluded caught athletes. This is the only answer.

[@ZaneGeeting]

This is pretty laughable. Strongman doesnt test for PED's at the highest level, nor does the IFBB for bodybuilding. Both of those sports are bigger, with more recognition, and way more money than there ever will be in armwrestling. The same applies to powerlifting. Yes, the IPF has more competitors, but there is no money, youre literally competing for a plastic trophy. All the money is in untested competition. It turns out that people watch strength sports to see the strongest people in the world, not weaker people who think they're taking a moral high ground. Furthermore, many professional sports such as American football where ALL the money is, have very lax testing, and almost never test the top talent. The majority of their tests are on bench riders and the injured list. Drug testing is the absolute worst thing to happen to professional strength sports. This isn't an opinion, the money and sponsorships prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. All that being said, competing in a tested competition while using, is scummy. But to think failing a drug test excludes you from competing in an untested event simply moronic.

[@segaGenesis24]

Just think about it for a second. If an NFL player quits PEDs would you not notice a drop in his performance? If a bodybuilder stop taking drug would he not get massively downsized? Or if a powerlifter is natural would his bench not go down from 500 to 300? We all would notice it. But let's say 2 armwrestlers roided out of their mind now compete naturally how would you know? The act of armwrestling doesn't rely on drugs. The viewers get the same experience from 2 naturals going at it in a hook war vs 2 drug users. If Paul Linn is 25% weaker and Sasho is also 25% weaker how would their match look any different than the one they had at EvW last year? We do not need drugs in armwrestling. Our sport can generate the same excitement without it just like UFC. We are not like strongmen or powerlifting. There are no numbers here to compare drug vs natural here.

[@jakesarmwrestlinguniverse9792]

We can't all be as cool as you Ray!

[@mattt5752]

If they did drug tests at East vs West or KOTT there won't be matches anytime soon lmao and the level would get lower, that equals to less athletes, that equals to less entertainment, that equals to less odience, that equals to less money, that equals to basically the destruction of the top armwrestling scene which is the core of the sport. So the plan is to keep that top scene as it is now and do tests on less important competitions

[@Stickyforbricks]

On who's authority?

[@legendramin0074]

You 100% spoke out my mind 👍

[@Verhulsts_Mum]

If EvW is really the UFC of armwrestling well..test baby test! If you can’t run a successful promotion without 90% of the cards geared to the hills then your on shaky foundations. As for not doing your sentence well..if places aren’t going to embrace testing and unify on that then don’t hate the player hate game Ray.

[@Nikoncha]

90%? try 99%. EvW gonna be like 5 people if they test properly. However most drug tests are a joke and easy to pass, so most athletes will pass the test anyways. JUST like in the UFC and JUST like in tested arm wrestling leagues.

[@thedrew24]

KZbin algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... i do think it's quite tough still, for clean sports, and testing. clear communication of what is tested events or not, since it seems there's still some confusion? how many pullers r banned and does that mean they shouldn't pull in any event anywhere too? i didn't know. also, Olympics is just not what it used to be, and most people don't seem to care as much about Olympics in general anymore. would love to have a sensible easier tested events for all AW events. but I'm not holding my breath.

[@PinyataSpirit]

WAF mafia

[@Mike-n6u9t]

If there was a drug testing half arm wrestlers wouldn't be allowed to go anyways

[@marcopignone9386]

Fans want good matches. Nothing else matters to us in the short run. Re: Levan/Devon for example, what we wanted was Levan to be a little weaker, Devon to be a little stronger, and for the match to be a lot closer. In the long run, we also want the athletes to remain healthy and continue competing well into their 50s. What we don't want is the constant uncertainty as to who "won" a match as we await the results of blood tests. What we don't want is an entire decade of competitions where the results are retroactively invalidated as happened in cycling. We want to enjoy the sport, not legal matters or politics. Look at the bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s... were they "clean"? No... but they generally avoided excesses and lived to a relatively ripe old age. The bodybuilders in the 90s and later saw dramatically reduced lifespans, and no one wants to see their heroes drop dead in the 20s and 30s. I don't think many AW fans take issue with PEDs as long as they are used "responsibly".

[@RGANT_Music]

Completely agree with you Ray

[@arncj18]

i can't believe people bite on Rvj's bullshit. He is not completely wrong but he ruins his own credibility. He is the type of guy that would accuse you of doping, if you are as big as him or more. just from envy, not even knowing you. Luckily nobody looks at his rants cause he wouldn't be welcomed at an EvW event ever again the nasty shit he said about the Easterners. He most likely was offered the match vs Leonidas at Florida but declined it, so Engin asked John. Plus Rvj doesn't understand that metabolisms are different some people have higher some lower, some can gain weight cause of this some can't. He says it was impossible for Audin to grow 15kg vs Whisperer, without doping, in 3 months. While i heavily disagree, i know exactly how much i could gain at that age up to my 30's. Now ofc it is not quality weight, but why does Rvj care then?

Another drama topic where none should exist!

[@andrewp.9541]

Did you fail a drug test, Sandris?

[@ronniemillsap]

If rvj knew you guys in the aw at the top actually agreed with him one some things. he wouldnt feel like such an outcast.

[@Nikoncha]

He is of course not natural, despite what he says.

[@TopTrollKing-fu8yp]

Sorry, I don't give a f about testing in not olympic sport discipline if it's paid from my tax dollars. Goverments shouldn't run f-ing armwrestling league. For example Chechnya produce best mma fighters and yet it's the most poorest Russian region. If any armwrestling organizations want to do doping test they should do it with their own money.

[@IgorVolyn]

They are all on juice and hgh. Hell many buy roids and hgh while competing in Turkey to bring home since there you can buy anything you want.

[@joshholden8561]

Engin don't do testing I think that's wrong it's obvious 90% of engins events have juiced up athletes that's not fair.

[@hellboyarmwrestling]

Very good Video

[@deathswirl]

The list of arm wresters in the top 50 is saturated with athletes on PED, I think it would be a much smaller list to gather all the ones that aren’t abusing PEDs actually. Think of that however you want but in order to clean up the sport you’d have to eliminate most of the top athletes, what does that say for someone competing who has ambitions to break into the top of the sport.. Levan resembles one of those steroid pumped bulls you’ve seen in the news and can Couch Ray even say he’s never used PEDs? Honestly I don’t know, maybe he can.

[@Foraster96]

Лицемерие это, у Левана в крови вся таблица Менделеева, у Морозова тоже с этим проблемы, но они топы и их не трогают? А на ноунеймов которые где-то в США учавсвуют, можно и стукнуть.

[@chipk5468]

All leagues must be clean or none.

[@fivedaysfitter5225]

Professional competitions are not the same as amateur events. It is the height of scumbaggery to go to a wildly recognized amateur events, which are tested and take drugs. Pro events, do what you want as far as I am concerned. WAF etc we all know it's tested, so taking stuff is wrong, end of. However I hope Arm wrestling doesn't go to the Olympics because it's super corrupt.

[@bruh-kx5hn]

every single arm top 20 arm wrestler is on gear bro

[@A_Mystery_Man]

In this situation, there was an athlete that tried to enter a tested event and tested positive. It's not about the gear usage or not.

[@Lightitupp1]

@@Sumppa Considering people in the Olympics are on gear how would a sport like armwrestling manage to correctly screen for gear use? You can come off at certain times, mask the drugs you take or take bio identical amount that don't trip the test to epi test ratio and you won't get caught.

[@James-rx2ng]

Here’s the issue when you only test 6% of the competitors it’s a joke. I know it’s expensive but to only test that limited amount it’s almost pointless. I agree with testing but if you’re not testing all athletes then you will always have people cheating, because let’s face it we all want to win, and most of the time people don’t want to take the time to perfect there training and put in the work to become the best naturally.

[@allanbrunelle]

I hear the UFC comparison all the time and ive said this exact same thing. That sport is tested strictly, armwrestling CANNOT get to that next level while promoters and leagues are openly allowing the steroids/doping. The worst part is that ALOT of the top guys are guilty of this. The sooner armwrestling starts testing across the board the faster the sport can grow.

[@Day-ZDuke]

It’s not really a good comparison. Firstly, UFC wants to be a “major” sport. ArmWrestling will never be that. It will always be among the likes of Strongman, Bodybuilding, some extreme sports, etc. I love AW, but it will ever be seen as a major sport, ever Secondly, in UFC / Boxing / combat sports, the main purpose is to hurt / damage / knock out / submit your opponent. Of course there is more rationale for having drug testing, when people’s lives are at stake. No ones life is at stake pulling an ArmWrestling match. You are not attempting to hurt each other.

[@Lagia7]

Ok but that is not whats holding the sport's growth back tho. What is holding us back is the rules and the fact that we only have like 4 athletes with an active, promoting social media. Doping tests wont do anything if our sport is confusing and boring to the general public to begin with

[@arncj18]

ruining some1's life by prohibiting his right to practice their favorite sport should be punishable by jail. That is why fuck WAF, on what they do to Yordan tsonev.

[@gavinhay6627]

Are you telling me Paul Lynn's traps are natural ? No fing way. Classic sign of steroid use. It's ok to use them unless you get caught right ? 😂😂😂

[@Gonzo3313]

So apPARENTLY you have never tested LEVON!!!!!! He admits to using them!!! He should be banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Alex.McManus]

Everyone should be able to compete because the top obvious offenders never get banned. Dennis Levan cough cough.

[@ethanweyandt3860]

If Dana White gets involved with the sport it will grow

[@thirstythirsty8083]

So ur talking shit about all the top athletes that evw shocases that are on roids and u dont care what they think

[@seanlennon5986]

Bring in doing tests.