Barcelona - Board Game Review - Why...Soooo...Many Points?

[@jesuscoutofandino6280]

I'm waiting for it to get to my house, and I bought it... for the theme :P I mean, I'm not 100% in agreement with you, but about 50% The theme could not be easily replaced by anything else - because the map and the buildings are basically what the Eixample in Barcelona is. But well, apart from that, well.. for you Gaudí doesnt meant anything, for me is aha, the AI has the name of the architect of the Sagrada Familia and many other famous buildings in Barcelona... but is not like that changes the mechanics. So yep, is not a theme that is deeply integrated with the mechanics... but when you end the game the map looks like Barcelona and not any other city!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

The art needed to be better to portray it though, it's pretty messy on completion.

[@pmduguay]

Come on, Luke, Gaudi is the most famous Architect of Barcelona ;) Also, I didn't think the setup was all that bad. Having only played it at 2, I agree that at 4, I'm fearful that it will take too long.

[@pmduguay]

Also, theme might not care to you, but I thought it was nicely put in this game. As someone who visited that beautiful city, I appreciated that a lot.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Architecture wasn't a subject at school 😉😜

[@TheDreamcrawler]

@@TheBrokenMeeple neither general culture, obviously.

[@jaypatel-yt4uy]

You mentioned other euro point salads that you prefer, can you list them here? Thanks!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Pulsar 2849, Caverna and Fields of Arle would be some really big favourites for a start.

[@Balders-y1d]

I could not stop being distracted by the ring light reflecting in your glasses.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Yeah normally I take them off. However small issue.

[@Balders-y1d]

Hah, fair enough, I did wonder that I hadn't noticed it before now. Thank you for the review, definitely interesting to hear your thoughts on point inflation.

[@benpuckett3806]

Antoni Gaudi designed the Sagrada Familia (high school Spanish paying off right there!)

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Yeah Spanish and Architecture weren't available school subjects for me.

[@piotrek7628]

You may be right about many aspects of the game. But it's kind of unfair that you judge the theme so harsh (and even say it's replacable). You admit, you didn't make any effort to understand the city's lore or history. Not thay I expect you to do so, not at all. I simply believe, that if you ignored that part completely you just can't tell (and therefore you shouldn't) make claims about if the game is well ambiented or not. As someone who knows the city quite well i can assure you it sticks so well to the theme like no other. There are so many little surprises in the game design that makes me fell deeply immersed in it.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It's more that that theme doesn't come through when you are moving on grids for bonuses, buying a generic building for stat boosts or putting coloured roads down for points. If there was no setting in place the game would feel exactly the same.

[@piotrek7628]

​@@TheBrokenMeepleyes, but you can say that about any other game out there. Any game can be stripped of its lore and made an abstract strategy or redesigned to different settings, that's always true. Like On Mars could be Underwater Cities and vice versa. I believe it's important to see the game as is, if the selected theme fits it well or not. However if you are unable or unwilling to judge it this way (like maybe you don't know the city of Barcelona? not that everyone has to know it all...) that's fine too! Yet in that case you should refrain from saying the lore is indifferent and meaningless. Like you have to choose one or another. Blind man saying the rainbow needs no colors is technically correct, but would make a fool of himself :)

[@Vuig]

Did you really say: “Gaudí, whatever that is?” at 7:44? 😂

[@nickadams8460]

LOL! Yes I had a little laugh at that. Perhaps a bit of cultural / art superiority though! Ignorance is bliss!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Architecture wasn't a subject at school 😜

[@windyhillbomber]

Barcelona looks amazing. Euro point salad? Yes please!

[@tvvista9715]

I`m personally very much in the same department, mechanisms are interesting and differ enough. I want my euro to be thinky and a point salad.

[@nirszi]

It's a fun game, played it once at GenCon, the only two issues I have with it it's like you said, points are too many and they don't matter. I wish that was dialed down a little bit. And since there is only some randomness in the game, the expert will always win. But I do plan to get it, I think my group will like it even with the potential of it being an AP hog.

[@giantcalamari]

Lots of ways to score, having the ability to swap into plan B or plan C due to the player interaction, and a highly thematic game? Sounds like positive, positive, and positive!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Highly thematic....... It's historically accurate is more a perfect term. You will forget this theme exists after ten seconds.

[@giantcalamari]

@@TheBrokenMeeple i think historically accurate makes more sense, but yeah! The architecture and references are spot on to the city’s layout. Excited to give it a shot :)

[@keith2570]

Luke, Have you tried Galileo Project? Barcelona seems like a game I would like except for the long setup and table hog thing. Any games you can suggest as an alternative?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Nope, haven't even seen a copy!

[@aneetsinghchadha5084]

Thank you for pointing out the general "point-salad-euro stagnation" thingy. Euro's are a great system but the lack of innovation in the space really bothers me. Half the games are about how placing X tile can give you 3 points instead of 2 and so on. Thats the reason I recently started enjoying games like Dune Imperium and Pax Pamir 2e as they are more about board dynamics and tension. For this reason they feel more immersive too IMO

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Well before you praise Dune the opposite end of the scoring spectrum doesn't work either as it allows for too much swings.

[@amchasteenable]

Great review! Thank you. What would be your similar recommendations?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Basically any point salad euro, it's nothing overly new. But Pulsar 2849 I find a better game overall in this genre.

[@PestiferousJoe]

This is why I stick around your not going to pull punches and give in to hype, thanks.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Indeed, I'll tell it how it is.

[@djintonic6485]

You came down hard on the historical notes in the rulebook--"you forget them," "who cares?," etc. but would you criticize the extensive Almanac that comes with A Feast for Odin the same way? Game mechanics are just that--game mechanics. AFFO is a magnificent game, but the Vikings didn't go hunting with dice.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

The Almanac is at least a separate document!

[@ramyahoo]

What similar alternative solo board game would you recommend?

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Point salad euros tend to be stagnant for solo gaming. Much more interesting solo games outside of point salad. Fields of Arle is a point salad but a much more fun one.

[@BurgerBeard]

Sounds like Luke made a pitch to make a whole series of these games, like Ticket to Ride.

[@alicia1465]

I think it does better than a lot of Board&Dice with heme. The sections resemble an aerial view of Barcelona. However, I do get how all the in-game point calculations and multi-step turns can make it feel mechanical.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

It could honestly have worked with any city with minor tweaks

[@alicia1465]

@@TheBrokenMeeple pretty much every euro game is like that haha

[@tombeullens4914]

Agree with you on this one Luke... It's ok. We like combo's but I thought the combo's in Tiletum were huge and over the top sometimes, in this however there sometimes is no ending, a little too much for us.

[@francopdx]

Thanks for the review. I've been curious about this game because I really like Arborea by the same designer. Also, it makes me think of Bruxelles 1893, which I played for the first time a couple months ago and enjoyed a bunch.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Ugh I cannot stand that game, so dull!! 😂

[@francopdx]

Ha! Good to know. Maybe that means I'll like Barcelona even more than Bruxelles.

[@craigandrews7544]

@@francopdxI’m looking to buy one of these two tomorrow: how did you find them?

[@francopdx]

I backed the crowdfunding campaign for Arborea, and that arrived in November. Although, I saw it at a game store in Portland, Oregon over the weekend - Guardian Games. The Bruxelles game that I played was owned by a friend.

[@craigandrews7544]

@@francopdx Which B game do you favour?

[@yanmartins7935]

By now i have played this game 2 times solo. I really enjoyed. I agree, though, that a lot of the points seemed meaningless and the points of the construction phase are a lil too much automatic for me. We can control the pace, but not that much. You cant delay one entire round, just one turn, so it does not help. But a love the art, i love the feeling of building the blocks and i just wanted the Sagrada to be better portraited. I dont, know, mayber in the center of the board with all the players disputing who builds the most parts of it. So I think im gonna play again some times, but it will not stay in my collection. I give it a 7,5/10

[@iansutton7416]

Yes, I can recognise some of those gripes. For me it's less the amount of the points, but more whether those points feel like they mean anything. e.g. yes at a stretch I can see how survival points in Outlive represent how successful your group appears. That's still something of a stretch, but this feels even more so. I do like the intersection defining the two actions mechanism, but quickly that's going to feel dated (I've backed Nova Roma which has it, and might pick up Pest if it hits retail, and at least the latter has a stronger theme)

[@elqord.1118]

Interesting you are complaining about inflated points scoring but didn’t you love Earth? It is the definition of that…had to say it :D

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Did you watch the whole segment as I literally explain the difference from Earth to Barcelona in that regard? 😅

[@sincitysir1]

Agree with his opinion on the difference. After the second scoring my buddy was 40 points ahead of everyone and we all stopped caring as much.

[@kerim8666]

He literally addressed your gotcha point in the video… elqord, you just looked at the title and fast forward to the end didn’t you? Joke is on you 🤡

[@elqord.1118]

@@kerim8666 Not really mate

[@alexthorne6996]

12:36

[@truenorth2615]

It is definitely a point salad game but who cares. You either like that type of scoring or you don't.....move on....I have no idea why you would spend so much time discussing it. I really enjoyed the 3 player game I played....and I came in last. Easily one of the better new Euro's I have played in quite some time. Player count is definitely important and the comments with regard to turn length are accurate. In a 4 player game you will be waiting a looooooong time in between turns. Easily recommend this game to all Euro lovers.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

People as you can see from the comments care about whether their turns feel meaningful or not in games. 😏

[@MrSkippingpig]

Excruciating with 4 players. So much useless downtime that I was actively trying to trigger the end-game as soon as I could. The board changes so much between turns that planning is pointless, so every player takes an age to assess the best move. Not helped by one too many fiddly little mechanics that nobody would miss if they weren't included.

[@klaus3856]

I passed on Barcelona when I heard the high scores. I think the sweet spot for point scoring in a game is 100-200. Lacerda follows this in his designs. Anything over 250 is ridiculous. Something like Dune Imperium with a race to 10 gets swingy.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

See some people get on my case about mentioning the scoring but loads agree with me.

[@alicia1465]

@@TheBrokenMeepleI think it is a valid thing to discuss. When you go to teach a game and people want to know how to score points, and every single thing you do scores points of varying amounts, it can become very overwhelming and AP prone for players trying to eek out points. I am interested in the game, but while I am sure the core is simple, turns look like they can get unwieldy and hard to track. I felt a bit confused by the notion of trams going in any spot, even without roads built, but moving for free over a player’s roads. Somehow, that was the point where I got concerned about it being a bit too much going on, with all the point scoring, all the actions, and the multi-action turns and bonuses.

[@electricLD]

Architecture wasnt a school subject for anyone and yet many people know who gaudi was and the sagrada Familia. However you re not (nobody is) obliged to know such things but you could have taken the opportunity to research the theme of the game and learn a thing or two very interest facts before the review. Many board games are a source of knowledge and give opportunities for research, take genotype for example or praga caput regni and iki (in the realm of country knowledge) and so many more. I think that we all should take the time to understand the theme of a game and just learn instead of been indifferent even if it is a subject that we dont care about it. Knowledge is always beneficiary.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Makes more people laugh if I'm blissfully ignorant. Knowing the details doesn't make me care about the theme when I'm placing tiles on a bonus grid.

[@electricLD]

@TheBrokenMeeple no one should laugh just because someone doesn't know something. I understand what you re saying, but when you know what you're trying to do it makes sense in the end. Nevertheless the history about Barcelona and Cerda is quite interesting.

[@TabletopTurtle]

Starting to think we've left the golden age of board games behind and now we are in this weird age where all games feel like derivatives of better games that came before. Still good games being made, certainly, but not much feels revolutionary anymore and everything just feels . . . mediocre.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Yep, pretty much!!

[@z.tamasmarosi7333]

How could a thematic eurogame be prepared if no one is willing to read and understand the thematic connections? Barcelona is problematic for me because of the aforementioned point flooding, but its thematicity is one of its best features. If, according to the prejudices, there is no thematic euro, then the authors are trying in vain.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

There's thematic Euro's for sure, but a point salad Euro isn't the way to go. Being historically accurate with a few names and layouts isn't enough to generate theme. Compare to something like Hegemony - the theme isn't simply the setting and factions in the game, it's the interactions and how the policies affect everyone and everything.

[@z.tamasmarosi7333]

My opinion is that there are not only thematic and non-thematic eurogames. It is a spectrum within which we can see several shades. A pure eurogame is just a network of mechanisms with something painted on it. However, in the case of games such as Barcelona, we can talk about much more than that. Why? These aspects are all written in the highlighted paragraphs of the rules of the game. And I found the connections, sometimes clearly, sometimes with difficulty, but they are undoubtedly present in the game. Indeed: the game cannot be called thematic so much that I don't lose the feeling in the first round of the game, but it can be called thematic, on the one hand, because the explanation of certain functions becomes more understandable by lighting the background, and on the other hand, it can be felt that the author was inspired by historical facts when made the game. And the production was not made in (the usual) reverse order.@@TheBrokenMeeple

[@elainetyger]

I don't really play too many city games with multiple point tracks but I'd play this one if I could have the lavender pieces.😊. I have now packed Sagrada to bring to today's games meetup.

[@larrytedmcbride]

Thanks for the review. I have one suggestion. I own one city builder, New York 1901, and I haven't even had the chance to play a full game yet, so this genre is "something new" to me. So perhaps you could have a bit where you talk about this being played by new players. Knowing all those other "similar" games you'd should have some good advice on any better/worst ones for new players of this type of game. That said, according to your review I would avoid this one just because of the setup. Sounds like, if a new player brought this home they may never even get pass the setup. Thanks again, Luke!

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Most of my games I play end up being with some newer players to the game.

[@larrytedmcbride]

Well, I mean, a section in the video where you talk about how a new play may react to the game. Like, putting your feet into a new player's shoes. You do quite a bit already, so no worries if such a section doesn't make it in.@@TheBrokenMeeple

[@shatnershairpiece]

When is the next big ‘innovation’ in board games going to happen? The game changer. Like dominion. The one that influences 100 others for ten years. Where you say “Wow. This has never been done before.” I’m sure rhado will say this is phenomenal while spit flies from his mouth at 130 km per hour, while wearing a ‘team vax’ t shirt as a bonus. Very happy you are not him.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Certainly yeah we don't have any defining game but then I think they will be very difficult to make now.

[@TheSludgeMan]

What's with the random shot at Rahdo? Don't understand why Broken Meeple has such a toxic viewership :S

[@TheAmazingYeti]

I'm glad he's not Rhado as well. Dude is a shill.

[@sincitysir1]

For a point salad ill always go Orléans

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

I just got bored with Orleans.

[@sincitysir1]

@@TheBrokenMeeple how dare you. Haha I can see that. I just got it last month so it's still fresh for me. Plus the 3rd expansion might make it even better!

[@SauerGustavo]

Glad did not listen to this review. This game is great.

[@TheBrokenMeeple]

Boring and just another dry, point salad Euro with no innovation or new. If you're happy to have the same stuff fed to you all the time with no change, then enjoy!

[@SocratesRR90]

Oof