"It's not the vicious one that gets you..." - Dangerously Quiet Cob?

There's an old farmers' saying: "It's not the vicious bull that gets you, it's the gentle one" regarding letting your guard down around animals that are seeming quiet and not at all dangerous. However, in this video Barry talks about how 'falling asleep at the wheel' can be a dangerous in any aspect of working with animals and how even the quietest and most biddable of horses can have quirks that could get you all into trouble if you don't keep your wits about you when you're handling or driving them.
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[@cheerio2252]

This is so TRUE, thank you for sharing a healthy reminder: I just had 4 stitches removed from my face from horse injury while on the ground.. my dog spooked the horses at dusk causing them to basically run over the top of me: I had just entered the horse pasture through a gate and was walking along side an adjoining hay-shed wall on my left and had a horse in front and one behind. As we walked to the feeding station, suddenly my dog ran under the gate and spooked the horses who felt the safest path was to bolt forward along the wall with me as ‘the threat’ was on their right. The horse in the rear slammed into my back sending me headfirst into the legs of the horse in front of me. I had no time to do anything, not even put my hands up, it happened so fast I have no idea what happened next except picking myself up off the ground with blood streaming down my face. Now, in hindsight, it all could have been avoided. The horses are good and like people, I’ve had them for years, this is our twice daily routine. Issue 1.. my dog lost his metal color tags that help alert the horses it’s him, easy fix. Issue 2.. I’ve become too comfortable and allowed my horse to walk behind instead of to the side or in front. If you can’t see them out of corner of your eye that’s a problem, or if they’re too close in your safety buffer. Issue 3- I trusted my horses to not ever be willing to run me over but they are flight animals who’s priority is to stay alive. So, after a scary situation, an expensive trip to the ER with CT scan to rule out internal bleeding, I was lucky to only have stitches and bruises. And I’m sharing this to remind everyone that whatever horses will do to each other to survive, they’ll do to you too and the best course of action is to not get too comfortable in your routine or stop being proactive about safety because it’s an animal more than 4 times your size with speed, hard hooves and a will to live that is stronger than anything he’s ‘learned.’

[@barryhook2]

Accidents can happen at the most innocuous of times, especially when we all (certainly happens to all of us at times!) get complacent. Well done for putting steps in place to help prevent a repeat of it and hope you recover quickly and fully!

[@cheerio2252]

@@barryhook2 thank you!

[@lorlorslinger9617]

This pony reminds me so much of the old boy I had (another grey cob called Silver), he was another dangerously quiet cob. He was a lovely calm boy, hardly put a foot wrong 99% of the time, could have anyone deal with him, ride him, drive him, but when he decided to stop or eat, etc. there was no changing his mind. Never bit, kicked, or reared, he'd just plant his feet & not budge.

[@barryhook2]

They do remind you not to get complacent!

[@rosiereed4034]

I had one like that, she would not budge if she didn’t want to.

[@amberkluga8949]

So many people behave as if horses are pets like dogs & cats. Horses are large powerful domesticated prey animals. Their size and inherent prey nature means they are wired for flight before thought. Training a horse is a labor of increasing the "thought" side of the brain so they will pause to consider that rustling in the bush might not be dangerous versus their instinct which says "omg the bush moved it's a tiger let me run over this puny human to escape". Most horses don’t try to hurt you, but they often do accidentally.

[@user-mb1hg4qu9f]

Indeed!

[@Warrior_of_Symbolica]

Whenever you upload I hang on your every word. Your decades of experience really just shine through the whole time. Your approach to training horses is so fair and kind, putting the horse first while not losing sight of logic. It's refreshing every time :D

[@barryhook2]

Thank-you, that's very kind!

[@honesttraitorbear3527]

I whole heartedly agree. It's showing a side of horse training that I haven't found in the states.

[@kenmorris2290]

Really important topic! So often novice owners buy horses with this kind of temperament. The most severe horse injuries amongst people I know were with the "quiet" ones (a draft cross, a cob type and a Gypsy Vanner) who suddenly exploded or bolted. I call them "sleepers" because the behavior literally came out of the blue and caught the owner/trainer by surprise. In one case though, the behavior had happened more than once...clearly a pattern. So yes you are doing a huge service by broaching this subject!

[@barryhook2]

Absolutely this. Glad you appreciate our video on the topic!

[@30dayride67]

I used to help people with their "problem horses" and so many times I'd get on and the horse would do what he was supposed to. The owners would get upset that I could get the horse to do what they couldn't. I'd always explain that the horse knows how far it can push you, but it doesn't know what it can get away with when I'm on--yet. Most will start testing me too soon enough, but some never do. I think you often get what you expect to get out of a horse too. They pick up on your confidence or lack of confidence, if you're there to lead the partnership, ready to fight or surrender. I think many people today misunderstand what "being the boss" is. It's being the leader or the teacher of the relationship in herd or pack animals, not an abusive prison guard (although I've seen a few take it to that level). I have been injured a couple of times when working with a green or problem horse, but I've been hurt far more times when I've taken an older "bombproof" horse for granted. I was reminded of this just a few weeks ago when loading my 25 year old, perfectly behaved mare into the trailer. She loves to go places and always jumps right in. As I was tying her she decided to body slam me into the front of the trailer. I know to keep my trainer cap on whenever working with any horse, but every so often I cut a corner, skip a safety measure or assume the horse will do as they always have and I get a little too relaxed. Things still usually go as usual and I get away with it, until the time I don't. Thankfully, I haven't been seriously injured, but the older I get the less it takes to do damage and the longer it takes to heal. For years I drilled safety first into new riders and yet there are still days when I drop the ball myself. It's easy for our minds to wander off what we're doing and the same is true for any horse. When both wander at the same time accidents can and do happen.

[@barryhook2]

Absolutely! Very wise words there. Another saying is: "Complacency Kills" and it can be absolutely true on occasions. We must never lose sight of or the respect for the fact we are working with flight animals and even the smallest of them are usually much heavier and stronger than any human!

[@Rowdymotmot]

Beautiful horse. Horses are like children. We cannot just let them go where they want especially on the road. Discipline is key and if you let one thing go by with your horse they will try other liberties. Safety is number one for your horse or others that might get in the way. You can talk sharp to them without screaming in fact a sharp word does much more than yelling. Keep up all the good work.

[@barryhook2]

Absolutely - totally agree there!

[@beverleybalshaw9119]

We know the saying: 'Still waters run deep' ! We never stop learning from these Beautiful animals. I'm one of five siblings and growing up we were never yelled at, my Dad would Lower his voice when we were being told off, which i can count on one hand. (boast!😂) It's the same with animals,(all domesticated animals) it's a case of being reminded, in a firm, but kind way. What a Beautiful horse, and he's so happy and relaxed, and if i come back as a horse, i know where i want to be ! 😂. What a Fabulous end to a Fabulous video, a real feel-good factor 😊👏👏

[@barryhook2]

Exactly, Beverley! Glad you know what we mean. Thanks for the praise!

[@beverleybalshaw9119]

@@barryhook2 You're very welcome

[@ladysmithrnmert9196]

Well done all. Very thought provoking. Always the challenge to say, Hey Mate, you are over horsed . Or realize you might be yourself over your physical limit. Keep the knowledge going. Better living through honest exchange .

[@barryhook2]

Thanks, LadySmith!

[@nicolakerrison]

I just found your channel. I love how you speak so quietly and kindly to these horses, and make sure they have the experiences and reassurance they need while being firm and clear on what behaviour is acceptable. These videos feel like we're riding along with you and hearing you share your experience with us.

[@barryhook2]

Welcome aboard! Glad to hear you like our videos.

[@suewatson9124]

Great to hear your teaching

[@jolindo6724]

Sometimes the ones that really test you become the safest because the boundaries have been clearly and firmly established. The good ones that never push the boundaries or half heartedly try, they are the ones that can give you a nasty surprise. Good training on both sides to keep one alert.

[@dove-1234]

He who wears the crown rules the kingdom… this dear little horse trusts you implicitly, and he has tested you by trying it on. You have shown him he is safe in your capable experienced loving caring paternal hands. He has given himself up to you. Others following your training must show the exact same loving paternal control, otherwise he will demonstrate… “no, not for me, I’ve had enough, I don’t feel in safe learned capable hands, so I’m going on strike’…. And who could blame him…. Bless his little feathery feet.

[@barryhook2]

Sounds very sensible to us and something his owners have understood and will continue at home!

[@annamcknight2573]

What a nice free mover he is. Great editing, Rhi. I found the video really interesting. He tends to drift across the road. We had a horse called Topper, a grey, who did this. Until I picked up a stick. Just the sight of it and he self corrected. | never used it. After a while I stopped carrying it as he got out of the habit and responded to my voice. He had obviously been ridden by novices who couldn't, or wouldn't, control him. He was a lovely kind horse too.

[@barryhook2]

Interesting story, Anna! It's a little like that with Silver - he's got out of the habit now and hopefully he'll stay that way at home so long as his owners keep on top of him should he try it again.

[@sladiewolf]

Randomly found this channel last night after smokin’ up…. And now I'm going through all the videos because 1) Cobs are my fav breed and 2) HIS voice and accent is relaxing. Hello from Canada btw

[@barryhook2]

Welcome aboard!

[@bjbrown]

What a beautiful horse, placid and easy, your training show through.

[@melaniehellum1281]

That's where experience shines. If you know when to correct and how to correct you have a better chance of success. Good Job on a beautiful horse.

[@janicebrowningaquino792]

Just LOOK at those ears pricked forward 😊! What a game little horse! Yes, I hope the family/owners of this little horse are people who will grasp that they are responsible for the guidance this horse requires for themselves, the horse, and everyone on the road to be SAFE. They are so fortunate to have this horse in their lives. I have loved horses since I was a girl and never had one I could call my own. Too frequently I hear of people what insist on having an animal, often a dog, and the dog unfortunately ends up being the victim of the owners lack of understanding they are responsible for that dog’s behavior in every situation. Too frequently they have no idea how to train a dog and make no effort to do so. Sadly it may result in the dog being surrendered, abandoned, or destroyed. I wish the family the very best with their wonderful and pretty horse. THANK YOU so much for your videos I enjoy them more than I can say 😊!

[@barryhook2]

You are very welcome! And yes, wise words there.

[@susanbrown2909]

We had a light horse like that at the stables years ago,when I was younger …he was as gentle as a lamb,but he would suddenly bolt ot shy..we also had another horse that was nice in the stable..not many would mount him..cos he charge to a fence n stop dead,you’d end up over the hedge..he knew how to get u off his back.thanks Barry

[@susanbrown2909]

Second comment after I watched to the end..he seems to run out of puff as his sides are heaving rather fast..he may get tired quicker then most…cos he’s a chunky boy..just a thought,Barry

[@barryhook2]

Thanks Susan. Silver was unfit when he came to us - which we think also had a bearing on his 'pulling over' to stop! - he lost a good amount of weight (apart from his crest!) and his recovery rate improved greatly. We are very experienced with improving the fitness of horses safely - don't worry! :)

[@kittykevan5052]

Great video - too often there’s a lot of aggression in training and you’ve explained how you use your voice. I hope the youngsters with thier first trotters are watching-!

[@SocialShires]

You said make the trip enjoyable. I make all my time enjoyable to the horse anytime I need them to do something. I'd pull them out of paddock, do something they want like bringing them to grazing spots. Then do something for me, and finish with something fun for them. Letting them run around, graze again or else. When I show up, they are always ready to follow me. "previous experiences; awesome. Today's experience; most likely awesome. "

[@janetcarbone4213]

Wise man, beautiful pony

[@bobjackson3307]

Been years since I had my Morgan Cart Horse 10 or 12 yrs old when I got him and he came to me all Trained up. So I'm a little out of practice. Most poeple don't understand how dangerous a horse can be. I always tell them: imagine if you had to negotiate with your car and convince your car to stop at the intersection stop sign. If you can't convince them to stop when you need them to, injury and death, may be just a second away. After that comment they understand. have a great weekend bob jackson

[@generalputnam2990]

They all can kick & spook. Even the best of 'em.

[@barryhook2]

Sure can - they are still a living flight animal after all!

[@loredelore7286]

I have a quiet one here and I never really know what he's thinking, mercurial to say the least. Otherwise he is a good. 💚

[@barryhook2]

They can be interesting ones to train! They remind you not to get complacent.

[@littlebrookreader949]

Do you also train the owner, not just teach them, but train them ? It seems necessary! I really enjoyed this. Thank you!

[@user-mb1hg4qu9f]

Horses are masters at figuring out what they cam get away with. They do test you.

[@jobond3317]

I had a horse that would and did take me into a parked horse float. Only happened once but made me aware of unexpected behaviours After that I was careful about passing parked horse floats.

[@seesafar9912]

good stuff, thanks. them hoss-es.....

[@marionevans8687]

It would have been a great to see how you corrected the climbing problem.

[@barryhook2]

Repetition of every time he climbed a bank or drifted onto the nearside, he was corrected by voice and reins. He was not allowed to stop whenever he thought he would and over weeks of training the behaviour decreased until extinction. It took time, but it worked for Silver. Perhaps he began to find it more effort to keep dragging the carriage off the grass banks than it was to just continue as asked in the first place!

[@renewyourmind1815]

My mare started doing this just yesterday. She hasn't been driven awhile, and she's just like this horse. Very kind, pleasant horse to be around. But when she wanted to turn and walk back to the barn and I was asking her to keep going, she decided to start backing up towards a very steep ditch (about 20 feet straight down) then she was pulling through the bit at a walk (same bit I've always driven her in D ring snuffle). She's usually not like that. During past drives, she does ask to leave the road by veering towards the ditch but with a little pressure on the rein she straightens back up. She's never left the road. I wasn't sure what to do since we were board-side on the road with the steep ditch behind and in front to keep working her through it, so i took a step back. I wasn't going to get after her and end up down an embankment but i also wasn't going to completely fold and let her turn around and go home either. I hopped off the cart, clipped the lead, turned her around (away from the barn) and led her another good mile before getting back in and asking her to turn around. She was no problem to lead. How would you have handled that? What should i work on? Until now I've never felt the need to have a whip with the sponge on the end to encourage forward movement because she's been good and has been broke to drive for several years. She's just been off. She was pulling through the bit and for a min i didn't think she was going to stop or stand because she was being impatient. She tossed her head a lot during this. She was pulling through at a walk. This mare is ridden bareback with a halter/ lead rope tied around so she's got a soft handle. I felt she was 'just done.'

[@barryhook2]

Always get her checked over by a vet for any discomfort that may have caused a big change in behaviour like this. Tossing her head could also be a sign of discomfort - is she up to date having her teeth looked at? If she is perfectly healthy but has had time off from driving, it may be beneficial to take her back to basics for a short while (drive her in a safe area practicing stops, starts, stands, turning and pace changes etc.) to make sure she is responding to everything you're asking of her.

[@lizbecker1677]

Before I learned to ride properly, I used to go on nose-to-butt trail rides, and the horses used to just stop and go off the trail and start grazing or snacking on leaves. They would ignore their inexperienced riders' attempts to get them moving again, and the guides would always have to come over and get them going again. It was really annoying but we never got hurt or anything. As an adult, I can see how this could become dangerous especially when on a road with car traffic.

[@barryhook2]

Exactly! And it's usually the little behaviours like that that slide into bigger problems if left unchecked.

[@wyndoverfarm6465]

Do you have a video of the bad behavior and how you handle it? I've had a mare do something similar and I was unable to correct without a groom dismounting. I would love any tips or tools to use in this situation. I used stern voice first, followed by a vocal request to move forward, then a tap of the lash on the top of her back to have her move forward but her only response was to back or threaten to rear. I kept her head over to the side, enough to block the rear but not so much as to have her pulled off balance. At this point I chose not to add any additional pressure as she is reactive and pushing too hard with her will result in overload. My groom had to lead her forward and get us back on track before she would continue on. How do I handle this if I'm driving alone? Had we been in a safe space I would have just sat with her until she relaxed more, then asked again. But when she's in an unsafe place that time may not be an option.

[@barryhook2]

In the middle of the video there's a couple of clips of the behaviour. Unfortunately for teaching humans, we don't tend to be filming whilst we're teaching the horse as our focus is on them. We never recommend driving out alone with any horse. It sounds like you judge your horse well and understand how she might react. In terms of moving forward with her training, it is hard without seeing the horse, but practising in a safe area like you mention, with lots of time and patience, will probably be the best way to teach her.

[@ltilley7343]

I have one that was doing this! He wouldnt respondvto a verbal correction. The good part is it taught me to drive one handed so I could tap my whip on his side so he would move over in the direction I wanted. For me I could start the correction much sooner that way.

[@barryhook2]

It takes a bit of rein handling to do, but could be done with one of our 'boppers' as well. Glad you solved your problem!

[@user-my6fc4iq1z]

I wonder if when horses have worms and this causes a big appetite and they look for any opportunities to eat?

[@barryhook2]

Could be!

[@FarmFreshIB]

All horses can kill you. Even the perfect one can fall. Fear can cause any live thing to react. I know of one sad incident where a passing car caused gravel to hit a calm old horse and he jumped. The jump caused the unprepared child rider to fall to the side. As she fell one foot hung up in the stirrup causing her head to strike the ground. A hind foot from the now stumbling horse gave the second strike that killed her. Another time that I know a young girl was riding a horse that wad a true babysitter. As they were trotting along without a care in the world, the horse suffered a massive heart attack. He seized up, stumbled and fell on his young rider killing her instantly.

[@singingstars5006]

Omg

[@debbiedogs1]

Maybe he was used to do a lot of deliveries, so he turned into lanes and had frequent rests, and wants to still do that??

[@barryhook2]

Perhaps in a past life! In this life, he was and is a pleasure drive, with no frequent stops to make.

[@tessjones5987]

He is near perfect. But sometimes he does not feel appreciated.

[@skr8674]

Maybe this horse is just not cut out to pull a cart. Maybe it’s just too stressful for him. Give him another job or retire him. ❤ 🐴

[@elenacaddell3639]

Great Desensitization. ANIMALS NOT PROPERLY TRAINED LIKE CHILDREN WILL TRY YO HAVE THIER WAY. They need to be taught and guided NO MEANS NO ! HORSES CAN BE PETS 🤨. MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO T AND WONT LEARN ABOUT THE ANIMALS IN THEIR CARE. SO THE ANIMALS DEVELOP BAD HABITS. “( IF YOU TRAIN THE ANIMAL , YOU MUST TEACH THE OWNER ALSO ) ! “ RIGHT SIR. 👍👍👍

[@geolyn]

Do you not train the owners? You are experienced and competent. The rest of us may not have your temperament.....

[@marciabyram6003]

My suggestion: Take the blinders off and train more off road so you do not involve cars and drivers. He might be leaning off so he can see what his problem is. More ground work at home to gain more confidence. Nothing is 100%. That is fact. Sounds like his owners are clueless and maybe should buy a motorcycle instead.😊

[@barryhook2]

Hi, Silver actually does also drive blinkerless too (as he was also here for riding, we make sure he can do everything he can with blinkers without them as preparation for riding in traffic) and he's done plenty of off-road training. Unfortunately his behaviour did not change without blinkers - he still pulled off the road and again unfortunately as the unwanted behaviour only really occurs on the road, we must train him there. Thankfully our experience paid off and Silver is now driving safely at home. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

[@user-nv8fp2gl7h]

HhhhjjMmll🎉😊

[@Skystone123]

Maybe built in, strap on spurs would do the trick. Since they've invented everything else.

[@littlebrookreader949]

😂