Converters in 2021 - Is There Really a Difference

[@esongsore]

In my honest and humble opinion, converters (and gear in general) tends to be VERY overrated...lol. Years ago, I was sucked into deep gear whoredom until I realized I was more concerned about gear than making music. I ended up selling my Focusrite Clarett and downgraded to a Motu M2. I also deleted tonnes of plugins on my system. I can confidently say that these changes have left me with no audible difference in the quality of my recordings. I recently had the opportunity to cut a bass track for an engineer in a very prestigious and professional studio. He wrote back asking what preamp and converters I was using. To date, he doesn't believe it was my squier bass running directly into my interface (with no outboard or in the box processing)...lol. It seems we have lied to ourselves that good music only comes from expensive and high-end gear.

[@zeppo20]

I have a MOTU M4, is great.

[@esongsore]

@@zeppo20 indeed... Great unit for an excellent price.

[@BeatsBangcomtv]

I agree except I believe we were lied to by the gear manufacturers in order to uphold their business model. Technology has taken the average hobbyist far beyond the studio capabilities that made some of our most favorite recordings of the past. It's definitely frustrating to think that I was more productive as a teen with an Alesis HR 16 drum machine, a Fostex 4 track and a Radio Shack microphone compared to my current digital setup with an Apogee interface, Logic and Pro-Tools and tons of VSTs and 4 condenser mics to record my one vocal. Smh... I'm definitely suffering from too many options. lol

[@ACDevastation]

@@BeatsBangcomtv true, but sometimes you don't know what you need until you've been down that road. You're not alone, and it's awesome that we live in such an age where we can try so much at the snap of a finger

[@shevyjohn9308]

Na converters are very important ot helps big time .you can hear the mix better and make quicker disissions and feels like the blanket is removed from the speakers

[@michaelcarroll1450]

I just switched from a year and half year old focusrite 18i8 2nd generation to an Antelope Audio's Zen Tour synergy core interface. I instantly heard more depth and wider mixes. The real proof was when my sister came over and she thought I got new speakers. She is not a musician so no gear means anything to her. The fact that she noticed a difference proved to me that it wasn't just in my head.

[@serfasleep]

Maybe she was smoking the same thing you were when you wrote this comment.

[@kylebostick2601]

@@serfasleepyou like focusrite entirely too much

[@TheLevitatingChin]

​@@serfasleeplol

[@Rhythmattica]

RME have the most solid Drivers I've experienced.....And ive sold and supported them all...... (2 x Apogee ensemble FW here) . Even decade old RME Interfaces have updated drivers... Incredible support.

[@Adrian_au]

+1 to these sentiments! I'm on the eve of upgrading my Fireface 400. It still works perfectly in Windows 10 with a Firewire card & there's current drivers & support software available. My first stop, at the store, will be to audition the RME UFX ii.

[@AlistairMaxwell77]

my last rme interface only got retired because it was impossible to find pci motherboards . it had no problems , it was still supported . it literally outlived the hardware platform it used

[@jgharding2]

Yep, still using mine, sounds great and just works!

[@tom_k_d]

@@Adrian_au I am happy UFXII user since 4 years, and can highly recommend it. The only thing I would do different today is to go the UFX+ route instead for it's additional MADI option - don't need it as of now, but MADI seems to get more relevant these days, and the price difference dropped since it's release...

[@cryptononymos3163]

@@AlistairMaxwell77 PCI motherboards ? Why did you need at PCI motherboard ?

[@AdamElteto]

What an encouraging and down-to-earth talk, making people understand that they do not have to spend obscene amounts of money to sound good. Spot-on about RME, too.

[@BarryJohns]

Why thanks man I appreciate that! Just so you know, I now have an RME UFX plus in my rack, that’s replacing my carbon.

[@ddrum121]

Ethan Winer has some great in depth videos talking about audio myths, including better/worse converters. One way he demonstrated you can test your converters is by importing a track into your DAW, and sending that same track out of you interface and right back in at the same sample rate, and doing a null test with the ITB vs OTB versions.

[@gfromshankside]

I bought the Arturia Audiofuse Studio ($900) purely based on feature set. I agree 100%, converter quality is no longer a worthwhile selling point. I absolutely love my interface because it disappears. I never have to think about it. It just works.

[@HandWiredAmps]

I agree! After comparing several interfaces in that price range, the Audiofuse Studio was a great desktop unit with no real competitor with that feature set. The main considerations for me were, dual monitor control with mute and dim, 2 headphone outputs with main out and 2 cues for separate phones out, 4 mic preamps with plenty of gain (70db) and inserts!, reamp and multiple in/outputs and the ability to control 2 sets of monitors in A/B. Lots of in/out adaptability and expansion.. The price may seem high for 4 mic pres, but add a 2 channel headphone controller, dual monitor controller and reamp and the price is worth it. Oh, and yes the preamps sound great.

[@davidfarmer7928]

How long have you had the Arturia? It's on my short list, but I've read of some problems (I know, don't believe everything you read on the internet!)

[@HandWiredAmps]

@@davidfarmer7928 I've had mine for about 3 months. In short, the only problem I've run into is that the ground lift option in reamp doesn't work and is a known issue. The fix if needed is an isolation transformer, which if your reamping and running outboard gear like keys or synths you should really have anyway. This was disappointing to me, but not enough to exchange it for something else that I would need the transformer for anyway. I've tried all kinds of ins/outs and mic/di and multi speakers A/B with great results as long as I did my part. I've seen a post about noisy inserts and I have found them to be quiet and good with both compressor and tube preamps. Unit is warm, like most of my other gear, but not hot. Running PC win10. If you buy from Sweatwater you get 2 years of guarantee.

[@tuneunleashed]

@@HandWiredAmps that explains it why you have issue. On Mac the Audiofuse it’s a beast!

[@HandWiredAmps]

@@tuneunleashed Hi, have you used the reamp and ground lift option? The Audio Fuse worked great for me with windows. The issue is a hardware issue in the Audio Fuse unit, not windows. The ground lift option in the Audio Fuse is not functional, (actually worse when used). I was told by Arturia's tech that they know there is an issue and "not to use the ground lift". I'm now on Mac Min for the last 6 months and it performs the same "issue" as Win 10. I went to the Mac to get away from the noisy fans in my PC. The PC is now in the basement studio! I'm still using the Audio Fuse and no plans of changing it out soon.

[@hjvarfjell]

I really appreciate your channel. It's refreshing to hear someone talking sense. Cutting through all the marketing hype and BS we find everywhere when we try to orient ourselves in the world of audio gear, and focusing on what do you really need, and stating the fact that in most cases good enough for the job is best for the job. A big thumbs up from me.

[@GersonELongoria]

I usually don't listen to anybody's opinion on audio because it's usually a dumb influencer with a biased opinion. But you sir; i can tell you've done your research. Thank you. Really. Subscribed.

[@CRURayality]

I love this already. Too many channels talking about studio equipment, yet their videos sound like TRASH. This sounds EXCELLENT.

[@smitty80]

I went from SSL 2+ to Carbon and it was the best thing I’ve ever done. Better stereo image and overall conversion: exactly what I was in the market for.

[@BarryJohns]

Carbon is a big step up!

[@mrflynn01]

@@BarryJohns, I also love the SSL2, it has its quirks for sure.

[@BarryJohns]

@@mrflynn01 SSL is doing some cool things lately for the home studio user.

[@smitty80]

@@BarryJohns sound quality the carbon is a grown mans interface in comparison. I also have SSL fusion and LTL Silver Bullet on the way.

[@bighousemusic628]

That little black lion 2x2 is a fucking monster in a small box

[@N8oRMusic]

Still rockin an old Apogee Duet Firewire on Monterey. That interface just won't quit.

[@andreasfranzmann9634]

50% performance + instrument 20% room 20% mic placement 5% mic 5% the rest (preamp, adda, cables etc. ) If I remember correctly this is the ratio that determins the sound of your recordings (out of Michael Stavrous book "Mixing with your mind".) Pretty solid as far as my own experience goes.

[@pjeffries301]

Agreed on room, but mic placement I'd put on equal footing with mic. Your list is also right on priorities. Surprising how many people start buying gear first.

[@Rhythmattica]

Andreas +1 for Stav, his a legend.. Always thinking outside the box, or in, whichever way you look at it... So ahead of the curve, (pun intended) check out his "ARC" control surface... Small company here in OZ, means it was expensive, but damn... So many ideas... I don't Think the market was ready for it... Plus the small team, probably couldn't manufacture or code to the requirements of multi daw support... But on your topic... What adds up to 100% , I agree with... But as I do it all myself, the Actual music/Song is at minimum 50% , id say generally 70 %... For me, Id place your 100% Into a 30% window... Then again, there's a difference between from nothing to the end.... Which can't be compared to just part of the process...

[@Babaksaeedi]

Can't agree more!

[@cristian-marius-albu]

Tried different interfaces and so far I stick with the Antelope Orion Studio. Besides the good quality preamps and conversion for me it matters if the interface can be easily connected to analog gear and its routing in the software mixer panel. Antelope in my opinion has the easiest routing. On top of that you get dsp + fpga chips that can run many proprietary plugins without stressing the computer. Here is a matter of taste, for me hardware still has the edge and cannot be replaced. Unfortunately Antelope drivers are not the most stabile as the RME drivers are, but improved a lot compared to 2 years ago.

[@TylerRifleyOfficial]

2 years ago When I went from a focusrite Scarlett to my apollo X system.... there went the blanket! Just playback on Apple Music through my apollo sounded incredible compared to the focusrite playback. Even my clients noticed it. It was a “lightbulb 💡 holy crap I finally understand” moment. Never going back.

[@FriendGaugeShotgun]

ABSOLUTELY!!!! i had a very similar experience , my focusrite was the absolutely the worst interface period. uad was a life changer.

[@TylerRifleyOfficial]

@@FriendGaugeShotgun glad to see someone else shares the experience I had!

[@shevyjohn9308]

Now try antelope I had the new uad x6 which a really nice. But the antelope discrete 8 blows thr uad away by far.i was coming from the focusrite pro 40 then the uad for 3 months now antelope

[@MisticDW]

I went from a MOTU 828mk2 FireWire to a Antelope Orion 32+ 3rd gen, it took me 0.2 seconds to notice the difference in sonic clarity, I've been getting a lot of comments about my mixes and sonic quilty improvements ever since I upgraded to the Orion 32, I'm so happy with the sound and features, I just wish the software and support was a tad bit better.

[@rook9309]

This is exactly the kind of commentary I want to see on these topics.

[@garybrowe]

For the longest time I used a Tascam DA-78HR recorder was the best. It beat the ones in my Yamaha 01V mixer. Now I’m using an Apogee Ensemble and still using a Yamaha 01V96V2 mixer to monitor. Really like your channel with lots of useful information.

[@Adrian_Franco]

I think my favorite piece of gear is my Prism Sound Titan interface. It just fits my needs so perfectly!

[@mattcero1]

This guy to studio audio equipment reviews is what Ken Rockwell is to camera equipment reviews. I'm subbin'! I'm just now teaching myself how to livestream and VLOG with my new X-S10 and will make this guy one of my GO-TO's.

[@BarryJohns]

Wow, thanks man!

[@FLAVMEDIA]

Question Barry? Lets say you have a semi pro converter UAD or the MOTU and its Mastered at a Professional Studio will you notice a difference with the Mastered version and the Semi pro other than the Loudness war? Why would we need Professional converters if its being Mastered in a 100,000 Dollar Mastering facility?

[@BarryJohns]

Conversion is a part, but only a part of the mastering process. The majority of that is creative use of compression, limiting, as well as EQ. Those things matter a whole lot more than the conversion when it comes to mastering. That does it mean that the conversion is not important, of course at that stage it is, it’s just there’s other parts of the process that contribute more to the overall end result.

[@jeffreyduncan989]

I agree with you about focusrite… I have the clarett pre-x and the Octopre expansion just for drums and am enjoying them. It’s a project studio but we are getting great results. I have a lot to upgrade before those would be my weak link 👍👍👍

[@battmanvonrichtoven]

I am so glad I found your channel. You are helping me on my journey. I recently upgraded to a 4 in 4 out. And it’s made a different for now. As I continue I know I will upgrade again but with this kind of content I can make a more informed decision, not one where I feel I am having something forced on me. Thank you Barry!!

[@jon4739]

Do session drumming on the side and need a lot of I/O ( usually about 13 mic's on my rig when I track). I use an HD native card with two old blue Digi 192 boxes ( Actually bought a third for dedicated routing out/in compressors and EQ's cause it was cheaper than a patch bay LOL! ) and to me the converters are not my weak link. For me the order of importance is as follows. Tuned drums, mic placement, room acoustic treatment, type of mic for the correct use (i.e. over heads vs direct drum mic), pre amps, external hardware ( if I plan on compressing on the way in on certain tracks), then finally the A/D conversion. Like you said now a days the converter ain't giving folks the problem. Usually something way back in the audio chain or it's the pilot in front of the DAW turning the knobs or punching the keys. Great videos Barry I have really enjoyed your perspective !

[@berniemayor4843]

Bought a Dangerous Music Convert AD+ and that made a BIG difference!

[@Ramziofficial]

Hi Barry, thanks for all your wonderful content! I’ve been using an RME ff800 for a very long time. I know that you own a UFXII. Would you say there would be a noticeable difference in conversion if I were to upgrade to that. I’m aware that the preamps are much better on the UFX II. I have spoken to RME and while the drivers for the ff800 are still going strong they may soon no longer work with Apple’s latest operating systems due to it being a FireWire only unit.

[@BarryJohns]

Yes coming from the FF800 to the UFX III would be an upgrade for sure. The FF800 was one of the best in its day, but it’s been out a long time now and improvements have been made since then.

[@Ramziofficial]

@@BarryJohns thanks a lot Barry 👍🏼🙏🏼

[@kmjansen]

Hey man I absolutely love your channel. You talk about a lot of subjects I wonder about but not many other KZbinrs are discussing. Thanks for the content.

[@BarryJohns]

Thank Kevin, I appreciate the support!!

[@fakshen1973]

Almost every manufacturer is working with the same handful of converter chips on the market. The components SURROUNDING your converter is what makes the difference. The first is power supply. It's the most overlooked part. Running a converter from a cheap 5v USB port.... well the results are going to be kind of meh. A dedicated and robust power supply is going to be expensive, but everything connected to it will function that much better.... including the timing crystals (clock) inside. Even the companies that hot-rod mid-tier converters... the first thing they do is replace or overhaul the power supply. Oh... back in the 1990's we'd use an Aardsync more often than a Big Ben. I think the Ben came out pretty late. The Aardsync stabilized the 888 interfaces via word-clock. They were well worth it.

[@GeorgePiazza]

The power supply & distribution, the clocking stability (both internal & external), the analog components & the lo-pass filter implementation (anti-aliasing & anti-imaging filters); these separate different converters with the same chips (the filters might be built into the chips - I'm not sure - but I do know that the RME ADI-2 Pro allows you to select from several anti-aliasing filters, so they must be either added or separate from the main chip in that unit).

[@eMatthieu]

After monitors, the very first piece of gear i've purchased 13 years ago now is a second-hand Aurora 8 from Lynx Studio, and i think it's been the cleverest decision i made i my entire home-studio building strategy. As a mater of fact i keep using it nowadays...

[@anthonyrock5039]

I love my 8(n) as well. I have 4 combi pre amps as well in it

[@ericmontgomery5241]

I agree with everything he said. The only add would be to consider used gear. Doing so will save hundreds of dollars while stepping into better quality gear.

[@starman5754]

Year 2023 here. I have a Studio One/Windows shop, Quantum 2626 and Studiolive 32SX interfaces. I mix almost always "in the box" so the A/D conversion aspect at tracking time is really the most relevant. Both systems are extremely clean and colorless at the inputs, but I tend to use the 32SX for monitoring and the Quantum for the actual tracking. The Quantum has a VERY low latency Thunderbolt connection and 2 ADAT imputs (also spdif) so it becomes the comm/interface hub for just about anything I want to plug into it. Any color I choose is accomplished with mic and preamp choice, as the conversion is absolutely transparent. Later, plugin's finish the job. The only real decision as far as the converter is concerned is the track/project sample rate. I can playback/mix through either interface and both give me an ever so slightly different sound. Quantum being the cleanest/flatest but the 32SX offering a slightly beefier/colored vibe but it is very subtle. For what I do, this setup is perfect and frankly out-weighs my present skill level.

[@19mo58]

I'm so grateful for your genius. You just made a fan/follower thank you.

[@michaeltravis3562]

I bought a Presonus Quantum 2626 when they first came out. This was a huge step up from my previous interface. I was thrilled. But, It wasn't long before I was gassing for another interface upgrade. Offerings from Apogee, UA, and RME were tempting me to spend more. I carefully analyzed my "needs vs wants" situation, and I decided to keep the Quantum 2626. I justified spending my money elsewhere (better mics, preamps, outboard gear, monitors, and room treatment). My humble little home studio has grown into a decent source of therapy and residual income and my skills and gear are steadily improving; I could buy a "better" interface, but it simply isn't necessary (not now, at least). Gear is no match for skill..which is to say that if you know what your needs are and you know how to produce music, even lesser gear will shine.

[@michaeltravis3562]

...and to prove my point- look at what Billie and Finneas have achieved with their simple gear. I will never achieve the levels of success made on gear that cost less than what I already have. That tells me I should focus more on technique and less on gear.

[@BarryJohns]

Good decision!

[@jamesangusmusic]

Awesome video Barry! Amazing how far it's all come. I'll share a quick story. I never used to care about audio gear or what people used. I figured you just needed to get good with what you got. I still believe this! However, my KRK Rokit 6s died after 10 years and I finally replaced them with Focal Shape Twins. I own an RME babyface pro and at my studio which is shared I was using a Presonus Studio 1824c Interface. After learning about converters, I plugged the speakers into my Babyface and man did I hear a difference! Clarity, top end and bottom. Still though, ain't no converter ever made a hit record!

[@unc1589]

I added an RME ADI 2 pro FSR to my apogee ensemble in a treated room with focal twin 6be monitors. Guy’s! I don’t see how anybody could have better sound! It’s just good to know that the quest for top quality audio is over.

[@damilolaadepitan6694]

Please what interface are you using this with? Thanks

[@midiman5045]

I have a Focus rite pro 40 Fire wire love it really 8 to 10 years now rock sold. Yes I have the TI FW card maybe why. I was looking at the Presonus Quantum 2626 as an add on to get better latency. I have tried USB is just not ready for prime time. Latency is not bad now with 128 or 256 buffer I get like 4 to 6 MS RTL, Fire Wire. Do you think the sound will be better on the Presonus Quantum 2626?

[@jermainesmith6315]

I went from BLKface Apollo8 to the Burl B16/RME Madiface. Huge difference IMO, I always felt like I was fighting some artificial harshness when recording and mixing with 2second gen Apollo8. Now mixing is going quicker and getting much better results.

[@AFMASTERING]

Thank you I was stressing about adding a converter but I will be upgrading my interface for more outputs for analog 🔥🔥

[@Hide_and_Tweak]

it's true some plateformes like KZbin have terrible audio compression. I feel like it got very bad in the last few years, it used to be decent.

[@rejimusic]

Ive just upgraded from a Steinberg ur242 to a Audient ID14 mkii. Details like reverb tails and top end separations are the major difference between the two.. I get transparent mixes out of Audient. I'm happy with audient. In India Apollo, Apogee, RME are costly so still haven't heard from those convertors.

[@3star2nr]

I upgraded to the claret 8pre from a scarlet. It was a huge difference and major improvement. My 8pre has been rock solid and very reliable the last 3 years its still running good. But I want to upgrade. Reason being the noise of the preamps is horrible so i cant run external hardware because the round trip conversion is trash. Ive been considering the claret + it serms promising they older lynx aurora and the antelope discrete 8

[@stevel850]

I went from the 18i20 3rd gen to the Clarett+ 8pre and it was enough of a difference that i'll never go back to Scarlett if I can help it.

[@CjDWIZ]

What do you think about presonus quantum line?

[@blackcreekmusic783]

I love my Persons Quantum interface. It's been nothing short of amazing for my needs. The latency is so ridiculously low I tracked vocals forgetting I had my plugin chain enabled and at a 64 buffer in Pro Tools. The integration with Studio One is the best, but I had issues last winter and found S1 not my cup of tea right now. Software aside, I've run a few outboard things and it was as smooth as running a plugin. I'm sure the sound quality isn't as good as other stuff, but it's certainly a step up for me. I'm perfectly happy sticking with it. Someday I'll have a Carbon, but that's w whole other topic.

[@thatchinaboi1]

I love the RTL of my Quantum 2626. The issue I had with it is that electrical noise from my desktop computer gets transmitted through the thunderbolt connection and adds noise and jitter to the audio of the DAC. To deal with this, I am using a separate audiophile DAC to do the conversion with the iFi SPDIF iPurifier 2 to reclock and galvanically isolate the digital stream. Another issue is that the thunderbolt connection (on a Windows PC) is finicky. The connection is often lost when switching between apps or playing and pausing videos.

[@thatchinaboi1]

I need to power down my Quantum 2626 and power it back up to reconnect, which is a pain in the ass. For professional use I have no issues with it so far.

[@MellowXBrew]

The Quantum runs neck or better than Apollo’s

[@midiman5045]

@@thatchinaboi1 I am thinking about getting a 2626 I have read some people have many issues with bad cables. Are you using it via thunderbolt 3 no adapter or with a thunderbolt 2 to thunderbolt 3 adapter?

[@thatchinaboi1]

@@midiman5045 Thunderbolt 3. After the latest updates, no connection issues.

[@Bluelagoonstudios]

Still using those Motu 828mkIII, interfaces, I revised those 2, because they are worth it. Next interface would love the RME interfaces. Their solid drivers is amazing for Windows systems. But the Motu's will be connected to the RME's via ADAT, and get extra channels in my DAW.

[@JH-pe3ro]

My own experiences with converters (and recording gear) started in the 2000's as a broke student...and having tried some of Behringer's dodgiest creations, I can say this....what actually matters is getting to the threshold where that piece of gear stops being a showstopper bottleneck. The threshold is basically the difference between the most bargain-basement offerings and the popular low-midrange one. The quality bar has stepped up over time, which definitely helps. I would estimate that a $500 investment distributed across the whole signal path(so, a podcasting mic, monitors, headphones, a basic DAC, cabling/stands) and then using the bundled software with all of that stuff is just about enough to turn a laptop into an entry-level production kit. Once you're at that threshold, the ergonomics of the gear and how it fits into the workflow start mattering much, much more than the spec. Going very high end usually means getting devices and software that have every possible configuration option, which also means more that can go wrong. "Professional" or "military-grade" often indicates that it's going to be your job to maintain the gear, which can be the wrong thing for a creative purpose that needs "disposable" or "lightweight".

[@almur88]

thank you so much, the video I've waited for so long. clear and to the point.

[@jq7065]

I've been using an RME UCX and Fireface 800 as ADAT since 2015 and never had an issue. I upgraded my monitors from ADAM AX7 to Neumann KH310 and it's made such a massive difference. I agree that the money should go into changes like this and acoustic treatment rather than the latest shiny new toy.

[@KabukiStarship]

The MOTU still has audio popping issues with Windows audio drivers but work well with ASIO, and you can use VoiceMeter to get rid of the popping, but you only get one stereo output. The Audient iD22 is also a smoking hot deal because the MKII just came out.

[@thaexception3406]

I do like the straight through format.

[@cesargonzalezbueno3359]

Learning is part of the journey. Thank you.

[@MikaelNitscheDrums]

I recently started looking into getting a new interface to consolidate my current 2 box setup (Focusrite Clarett 8PreX + Clarett OctoPre over ADAT) to a single box with 16 in/16 out to mitigate latency when tracking and summing OTB. I've been really happy, and still am, with the Clarett tough! Sounds really good and drivers have been super stable for me on Mac. The Red 16 Line is looking really promising in terms of I/O and connectivity, but it might be cool to check something else out?

[@BenKash308]

Just subscribed I enjoy the videos. I recently got back into recording and had a focusrite 4x4. Great little interface but I needed more I/o to expand to connect my little SSL mixer up to start mixing seriously. I purchased the MOTU 16a for $1500 and it was literally like taking a blanket off my monitors and I could hear more frequencies. There’s no preamps on it but it was the best purchases I’ve ever made because of those converters. Plus it has AVB which is great. Keep up the videos 👍🏻

[@brianvillage5]

I disagree that you need more IO to mix seriously. SSL native, UAD and a lot of plugin Alliance plugins will get you an in the box sound that will seriously rival analog gear especially if you’re good at using your ears.

[@BenKash308]

@@brianvillage5 what I meant was I didn’t have enough I/O to fully connect my small format console to mix through it properly. I never meant to come off saying you can’t mix in the box because plug-ins do an amazing job. My main point was a new interface with better converters was a huge improvement for me personally. Thanks

[@trentonspeakstv]

I love my Black Lion Revolution 2x2 for mixing and mastering 399.00 it's a Beast!

[@sonikblaksmif]

Thx Barry for the content .. I could use some advice.. Should I go with a Behringer 1820 interface n run that digitally into a audient Nero or just get the Focusrite 18i20? Help

[@patovega]

Happy camper with my apogee ensemble thunderbolt... plugins while tracking are just icing on the cake. went from a presonus firestudio 2626 to the apogee and it was night and day

[@Mikas_Emil]

How? In audio quality?

[@patovega]

@@Mikas_Emil Yes, like when your camara focuses on something, from blurry to sharp

[@rollerdragon]

from working with 2", to ADAT, to digital tapeless... i learned a couple of things... LATENCY... old problem, but still very real for many... and while a better i/o might help, a faster computer with as much ram as you can stuff in will do more than a shiny new interface. and for the record, AVID takes advantage of their 'subscribers"

[@fakshen1973]

I'm along the same path, 2" tape and Digidesign Protools II hooked up to a NuBus Quadra 650 with an expansion chasis and three 442 interfaces. Even now the latency on that system would beat any USB system from today...

[@brianvillage5]

Nah a good thunderbolt interface will give you next to no latency, even usb interfaces have their workarounds. This is why dsp is still relevant.

[@trixdropd]

@@fakshen1973 My babyface fs is like 3.2ms round trip. Bus powered usb 2.0

[@areyoujelton]

@@brianvillage5 hahaha

[@Carlos-Rodrigues]

Focusrite> Audient> Presonus 192> RME Fireface 800 > Metric Halo > Metric Halo > Metric Halo > Metric Halo I don't like Metric Halo. I love them ❤❤❤❤️ My next upgrade is different however, it's gonna be a .... Metric Halo MKIV card

[@PurpleMusicProductions]

I am going with RME very very soon!

[@robinspat]

Mr Johns, Loved your video and valuable talk - thank you. Please keep making them, it is a joy to listen to you, and a buzz that you see fit to spread your immense mind bank ;) I like my PCI RME 2 channel at a fraction of the cost of a PCIe RME9632 2 channel... and will add the daughter boards 4x in and 4x out and eventually the Audient ASP800 or 880 for an extra 8 audio in... but the the biggest point of the PCI or PCIe is the low latency RTL... beats USB, firewire and no interest in my use case for Thunderbolt... ethernet live stage hardware at 32 channels peaks my interest though... As to audio quality mic or line into my old but brilliant Safe Sound Audio P1 - then into audio converter / card ... RME now... bliss... but tried a USB red focusrite box and frankly sounds nearly same to my ears at 48khz, but I want PCI or PCIe low latency. Difference is negligible... but I have the idea the RME daughter boards' improved convertors and the Audient adat expansion with 2x retro channels might add sparkle... but the end user could not care a jot... iphone, droid smart phone, mp3 file, extension box, car hifi... tiny ear buds... I used to love recording and mixing at 24bit 96khz using a terratec DMX6Fire in early 2000s - massive difference using Nuendo at time... (see SOS article 2006 maybe featuring Donald Fagan and his engineer conclusions: Morph the Cat, on Nuendo) but now use Reaper - it is brilliant... (best DAW to me) with LCS Blue theme... on a newly built at Xmas 2020 - - - Intel CPU i7 4790K, I imported, used from China... Asus 97-c mobo for its PCI slots, NOS (new old stock) £110 for unopened 32 gigs DDR3 1600 Ballistix Sport ram, with Corsair silent PSU, a mere 450 watt, and Noctua D15 cooler... GT1030 fanless GPU - I sometimes end up with 140 channels into mixer and use 300 plus VST FX, some pianos etc, without falling over, but its close to the limit at 80% realtime cpu use, even if CPU demand at only 60%-70% ... on an annoying 128 FLS limited Windows 7 x64 bit... I might upgrade to the H2 Win7 release, 4000 FLS limit, this September... but the grief of reinstalling all my VST and VSTi's... I might just let it go and work within the limitations... it forces me to freeze, render, commit to actual FX applied to audio... like in 2004... and move on... rather trying to keep VST FX and VSTi's 'live' - it is simply very, very, very silly trying to keep 'live' all those VSTi's and VST FXs applied to channels... why do we feel the need. Its a fetish? Now the important bit... EARS... to qualify all of that... My ears are actually fed the truth via a pair of Adam a7x monitors and BeyerDynamic DT150 cans... Ultimately ignore all I wrote but RME... and Latency - - - BUT GAS ;) Gimme potential 14 IN and OUT max... it IS enough... It IS, it IS... www.andertons.co.uk/recording/studio-outboard/preamps-channel-strips/audient-asp800-8-channel-mic-pre

[@eman0828]

Converters have came a very long ways away since the 90s and early 2000s to the point the difference is very miniscule as the gap closes esp between midrange and high end interfaces. I have some pretty extensive use of several Interfaces across several brands as a Record Producer from working in a commercial studio down to my own private production studio. I have used everything even the top top stuff like Lynx Aurora 16, and Apogee. I have Ab my most recent interface the MOTU 828ES AVB interface against an Apogee interface and the difference wasn't night and day. They were very sonically close to the point the price difference didn't really justified the extra cost.

[@Markpianist1]

Yes me also. So. I agree with you. When I bought my Apollo 8 there wasn't much up but now there's so many cheap preamps especially that PreSonus board wish I would have waited but hey sometimes you got to do what you got to do. I bought another Apollo it used to cut my losses rather than get rid of everything so it's all good. It was 2016 when I first purchased my Apollo

[@mrflynn01]

@@Markpianist1 I purchased my Apollo in 2014 and it’s basically new in the box, used less than 8 times with “dam near” every plugin. 20 plugins are missing. I keep forgetting I have an unboxed ISA two!! 6 months old.

[@LivinginLosAngeles-re5yx]

Apogee AD8000 still a good pickup today? I hear incredible things about it.

[@eman0828]

@@LivinginLosAngeles-re5yx Super dated by today's standards which is 90s technology. Modern converters have much improved over the years.

[@jacksp8de]

I went from a focusrite Scarlett to the apogee element and it the quality was just beyond what I expected. The Element has the same conversions as the ensemble for a much lower price. Too bad they discontinued it smh

[@nicolasstrawberry4148]

I’ve owned several audio interfaces throughout the years, my first was a Motu 2408, sounded great but it was connected to my Mac via a pci card and I updated my computer and it didn’t support the same pci card size so I started using FireWire then usb interfaces, Digidesign Mbox, M Audio fast track, Avid fast track duo, Apogee Duet 2, and recently upgraded to the Apogee Symphony Desktop. My Apogee Duet was getting the job done, but the Symphony Desktop has definitely helped improve my mixes in a big way. Of course the preamps are better but I’m getting better mixes from songs I’ve recorded and mixed before on my Duet. Like I’m really hearing the detail and truly whats there, unlike before where I found myself having to go back and make tweaks and adjustments after listening to mixes on other sources than the Duet. Long story short I’m getting much better mixes now.

[@dylanhughes4548]

Nice, I just ordered a Symphony and im coming from 2nd Gen Apollo Twin so hoping to have the same experience as you!

[@brianbatie6650]

One unit you may have missed was the legendary Terratec EWS 88MT. 8 channels of I/O, 24/96 resolution, pci interconnect, ultra-low latency, excellent drivers. I used 3 of these for 24 channels of clean tracking in my PC for 15 years, live recording concerts, including chamber orchestras. This was back in the days when the only alternatives were the cumbersome ADAT, the far more expensive MOTU, and the exponentially more expensive ProTools rig. Had the PCI cards not died, and PCI slots not discontinued on PC mainboards, I'd still be using them! I also owned the old Digidesign Session 8 unit, but it was stolen while on a location assignment abroad. Now, because I rarely record higher than 48K, I use the QSC Touchmix 30 Pro for 32 channels of good IO and decent standard DSP all in one desk.

[@BarryJohns]

I could have mentioned the Ensoniq Paris System too, not sure how relevant either is today though?

[@brianbatie6650]

@@BarryJohns I'd opine that neither are relevant today, because PCI is extinct. But back in the day, (1990s) both were quite relevant, because the 24/96 audio quality was miles ahead of similarly-priced competition, even if you had the big bucks for ProTools and the like. In fact, the Envy24 AD/DAC chips were pretty much the go-to converter for most of the better units, sound-wise matching today's better offerings. That's why I never gassed for RME, or ProTools, etc., I only wish that Terratec had updated their interface to PCI-E, because I'd still be rocking them now!

[@sabomusicllc8165]

Bought an RME UFX+ years ago, never looked back. Solid support, clocking, firmware, controls, ADDA, etc. hope it lasts another ten years at least.

[@bg4productionsllc]

Opinions on Antelope converters?

[@bachbeats2217]

i bought a burl b2 bomber adc, and also blackface UAD (not the newest x8p models) i sold the burl about 2 months later because I could not tell any difference in blind a/bing them

[@LivinginLosAngeles-re5yx]

I've heard so many good things about the Apogee AD8000, and am close to buying. Everyone seems to say the output is so musical and the most analog sounding. Any reason for me not to pick one up?

[@MarlonKingShow]

Thanks, some interesting thoughts here. Your recommendations are pretty expensive still for non pro. Wonder what your thoughts are on the audient id44 which is around £400-500 range. I'm currently running a steinberg 2012 interface, not a fan of the d pre. Love the flexibility of 4 or more connections but if there is a higher jump to be had going else where then that would be worth considering. I'm not going to spend a grand though lol. I do release albums on vinyl etc but its not my livelihood.

[@malevahouse]

Hi Marlon! I got the iD44 one year ago. Greats features like inserts, two headphones out, talkback, D.Is etc and adat expantion

[@MarlonKingShow]

@@malevahouse thank you, thats good to know, defo considering this one as my next one to save up for.

[@brettjr9521]

Alot of today's top engineers are using apollos. The solo and the x and beyond have the same converters and yet still make great recordings.

[@shevyjohn9308]

Most likely for tracking but the converters on the uad are not that great imo

[@brettjr9521]

@@shevyjohn9308 post Malone and his engineer luis record and mix his music all on the apollo twin

[@GospelDjshane]

I use an Roland Octa Capture for many years and decided it was time for an upgrade, came across Antelope and decided to give them a try and by surprise it was day and night. The same vocals I recorded through the Roland Octa Capture by it self I did with the Antelope Discrete 8 and there was a big difference I was shock 😲 didn't though it would be such a big difference, it was bigger and wider, I'm very happy I did the upgrade.

[@BarryJohns]

Yea the difference between older gen interfaces and current ones is big, differences between more modern interfaces not so much.

[@DnBLand81]

i got a prism sound and i fill good with it and i still use a apogee rosetta 200....never felt need to change nothing

[@EthanRMus]

Hey Barry! Question - How do I know what makes an interface have better or worse converters? Is there any sort of defined consumer end specs? How do I compare converters rather than just being swayed by words like 'better' conversion, 'elite' conversion, etc.?

[@trv503]

I had to move to my backup audio interface, the Gen 1 Focusrite 6i6 from a Presonus FireStudio Project. That was my looong time interface until I rebuilt my Windows recently (Xmas 2020) and the FW card wouldn't fit into the new motherboard, so FSP is now decommissioned. I'll say this, the Focusrite sounds sounds better than my old box. Even my old mixes sounded better and wider though my ages old Behringer Truth monitors. I am looking at upgrading to an RME card, but I need a REAL video card 1st.....the RMEs have been rock solid for ever. Thanks for your videos Barry. Keep going!!!

[@ernieg]

i have a apollo x4 any advice on a GOOD adat 8 Ch Pre ?

[@nitrozex]

What is your opinion on the Cranborn Audio 500R8 and its converters?

[@SilvertoneKevin]

The new Apollo X6 (or X whatever) converters on paper are noticeably better than the RME UCX II. Do you think they really sound better? I need to replace My Apollo Twin MKII (got destroyed). I use 2 Chandler Germanium rack mount pres 70-80% of the time so I like that the RME UCX II has true line level. Otherwise I would get an Apollo x4 (no true dedicated line level). I loved my Apollo but I want true line level.

[@OTA3D3]

Awesome Barry! I want to buy a better converters level, recently I bought some analog gears like compresors and eqs. Rme it can be a option but my budget is around $1000 for 8 line in and out, I don't need preamps because I have some analog preamps. May you give me a recommendation? Thank you!

[@BarryJohns]

Newly released/updated Focusrite Clarett www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ClarPlus8Pre--focusrite-clarett-8pre-usb-c-audio-interface PreSonus Quantum 26x32 www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/QuantumTB--presonus-quantum-26x32-thunderbolt-2-audio-interface

[@robinspat]

Herere's an idea = Audient ASP800 8x channel... £560 odd = sends via adat into RME PCIe 9632 2 channel card or if you have a intel i7 4790K system and PCI asus 97-c motherboard for example then £150.00 - - - used pci RME card ;) No DSP

[@robinspat]

Here's an idea = Audient ASP800 8x audio channel... £560 odd = sends via adat into RME PCIe 9632 2 channel card or if you have a intel i7 4790K system and PCI asus 97-c motherboard for example then £150.00 - - - used pci RME card ;) No DSP but equals extremely low latency RTL - Gives you 10 channels analogue audio IN... with option to add another 2x RME daughter boards adding 4x IN and 4x OUT - no DSP FX off cpu processing though but on a budget - my choice !! At minimum my 2 channel pci type RME is frankly ALL 99% people need... unbeatable RTL latency can be used at ludicrously low 1.6 ms but I tend to use 7.9 ms 128 buffer and used PCI low price last stocks of PCI new still value for money... if staying with i7 4790K not over clocked 4 core at 4.0 ghz - still a rocket ferrari PC box to me, OS drive EVO PRO SSD, scratch drive WD Black, Sample drive WD Blue - - - - SILENT Corsair PSU and Noctua D15 silent, silent, silent 32 gigs DDR3 ram for £110 last NOS unopened... fanless Nvidia GT1030 card. 48 volt large diaphram condensor mic does not pickup machine noise... PC at feet, while mic on stand, in front of my face... but my fridge... that it can sometimes from other side of large living space combined offset kitchen area. But, but, but my only gripe... the RME PCIe audio internal card, however, is annoyingly stupidly upscale pricing - throughly not impressed with the wallet gouging.

[@BarryJohns]

@@robinspat the outputs are just for inserting hardware between the mic preamp, like a typical insert on an analog mixer. They can’t be used as Monitor outputs. You also would not have headphones. The Audient unit is great for expanding the number of mic preamps to an interface via light pipe, but not as an interface by itself.

[@robinspat]

@@BarryJohns My intent was to feed the RME PCI card via light pipe adat... have I missed something? I currently have a feed from the RME to a volume 'knob' unit which feeds the Adams and I have a feed from the RME to only one head headphone. I thought adding the RME daughter boards would give me the extra 4x IN and use of 4x out to gain extra independently controllable headphones. I thought the final adding of audient unit expanded the audio IN? Where have I lost the plot? At present not yet in trouble but your input might change my project. ;) Thanks for your interest, most kind of you !!

[@koitka2037]

I like the content on your channel, i subscribed. I must say that I am very happy still with the Focusrite 18i20 1st gen. I've had it for years now and i don't think it sounds bad in any way...

[@giovannimercuri5168]

Barry, as always, a great video and a stimulating discussion topic. That said, I think it is important to clarify some things here as the topic you highlight is "converters" but then you sort blur the lines beyond "conversion" (A-D and D-A) and discuss interfaces and mic pres. I know today with the enormous selection in gear and the with the combination of lots of capabilities in one box (e.g. the Avid Carbon or the Focusrite Red16Line) it is easy to combine those topics...but they are all pretty significantly different. As folks already point out in the discussion...there are things like latency, and I/O (e.g. mic-level, line-level, Dante, AVD, Thunderbolt) DAW integration etc. that all really are in the interface domain....then there are converters themselves...which to be fair come stand-alone in pricey form like Burl and many others (e.g. Focusrite Rednet 2 or newer Rednet A16R) and convert line level A to D and/or vise versa and can be included in some interfaces (again like the Red8R/Red16R hence the overlap and confusion) And then you have mic-pres...which require their own circuity to boost ultra low mic-level signals to line level and/or convert them to digital...and there are tons of offerings here too like the Audient ASP 880 for example or Focusrite Rednet 4 or newer MP8R...can you tell I am a Focusrite Red user/fan?)...and of course these two are included in interfaces (like the two that come in the Red8L or Red16L or the eight that come in the Red8Pre). Anyway, I guess my point is that interfaces, converters, and pres...while then can and often do come bundled in modern interfaces are all very very different animals. Personally I use a combination of many of these things like a Red8Line as my primary interface with a Rednet2 converter to add 16 more line level ins/outs and a Rednet 4 and an ASP 880 to get 16 more pres (plus a Rednet 3 to get the ADAT IO to Dante for use with the Red system)...Would love to hear your thoughts (maybe future video) on the value of all these things bundled together in one box like the Apogee, Focusrite, Avid and other offerings vs. the piece-by-piece options of choosing them all separately. Again, thanks for all the great content on the channel...and for reading this ultra long post!!

[@BarryJohns]

I can do that later, but this topic was more of a 30,000 feet general perspective, way too much to dive into all those details in one video.

[@joeydego2]

Had a m audio profire 2626 and an apogee Rosetta really stepped up the sound. Fast forward about 10 years I got a presonus studio 192. Very little difference there, sold off the apogee. Now using the Apollo X8, I’m happy with that.

[@ISaudio]

Man I miss the sound of the profire 610 so much. All my tracks came out so big with depth if that makes sense. Been chasing that magic ever since

[@Adept216]

@@ISaudio m audio magic?? lol

[@Lcelenza14]

Would you be able to comment on the difference in conversion between the Apollo mk2 series and the newer but not new anymore x series? I had apogee products before switching to UAD for plugins, and after several years I think the apogees were better clocks and converters. Could go for satellite device and then get any interface that’s not u audio, but I’m considering upgrading from mk2 to X and wondering if it’s going to give me the conversion improvement I’m looking for. Thank you!

[@hamtramckchronicles]

Speaking of Focusrite, on the home/bedroom studio front, their Scarlett 3rd generation and the brand new Clarette+ ranges of interfaces are dollar for dollar among the finest out there for again, simple home bedroom tracking and production. I am consistently pleased with the quality of what I am getting out of my Scarlett 18i8 3rd gen interface. That said Barry, in my opinion, you are going to endeavor to match the interface to the environment you find yourself working in. In other words, if you are in a simple untreated bedroom studio, a Symphony is going to be way overkill; you are better off spending the money to acoustically treat your room first, if you can, rather than spending thousands on an interface when something like a Scarlett or Clarette will do you just fine at this stage. Good video Barry. Thanks!

[@jamescuttsmusicjcm5013]

Focusrite offer very good products for sure. :D.

[@americanantagon1st]

My room is untreated, but I mix in headphones. I consider myself a professional producer/mix engineer, so I invest in high end analog hardware and audio converters. My bedroom is where my equipment is, but I have no issues with my setup. I think that it depends if this is a hobby or a career, rather. There’s no way that I’d consider anything Focusrite converters, unless they’re RedNet. I’ve heard lot of converters and the cheaper ones are usually priced well. A difference in converter quality can make a performance appear more dynamic and lively which will greatly impact mixing and listener feedback.

[@shakarocks]

@@americanantagon1st I'm a hybrid guy who does work at home and also integrates with a multi-million dollar facility with incredible gear and Burl/Prism converters. My home based system is based on a Clarett 4Pre with great front end gear by Heritage, BAI, and CAPI. My home gear integrates seemlessly with the high end stuff at the studio. Absolutely no complaints and zero problems mixing. The truth is that the Clarett isn't as good as the Burl and Prism stuff it is good enough for professional output.

[@UTSONUT]

thanks for this video? UA apollo mk 2, D to A is what I want to ask about, do you think it is 'pretty good' and your speakers will sound good with them ? how much better is UA apollo latest in terms of D to A? is RME wayy better?

[@imflying2953]

SUBSCRIBED. love this type of convo...not sponsored content trying to sell a converter. a real discussion on whats available and how much greatness you can achieve these days on a limited budget...respect....I will say i bought the new focal alpha evo 65's...GAME CHANGER. speaker tech / digital amp tech is seeing a big bump in whats possible also...these new monitors are shockingly clean and detailed across the spectrum for the price.

[@syru2894]

I'm getting myself a clean 2004 era Pro Tools, Digidesign 192 setup and if that stuff works out, all modern converter manufacturers will be put on trial at The Hague.

[@Judasz696]

Im trying to decide between Focusrite scarlett 18i20 3rd gen and clarett 8pre. Im recording some drum machines and synths to my daw and i am wondering if more expensive clarett will be worth it for my usage.

[@Bhallmed]

The have the apogee symphony and it’s super awesome!

[@Lemon8]

Very happy with my Audient iD22. Subscribed. Thank you.

[@nathanstanborough1550]

Absolutely agree that up to a price point, there isn’t a great deal of difference in conversion quality. What really matters these days is the full feature set of the interface. Does it have a monitor section, how many channels can you ingest at once, can you have individual headphones… all the things we take for granted, but can make things easier. I upgraded to a MTRX Studio as I’ve wanted to have 16 I/O analogue and expandability with Dante. Also with DADMan I have a comprehensive custom monitor configuration!

[@thatchinaboi1]

My main audio interface is the Presonus Quantum 2626 SPDIF out to a SMSL M200 DAC. What are your thoughts on the ADC?

[@StratsRUs]

MOTU has always been great for me with Logic X.

[@barneyrubble8255]

Whats the best I/O interface, with no preamps and convertors so you can spend all your converter and pre amp money on dedicated units?

[@MrNickDrummer]

Question: If you have 16 high-end analog rack mounted Neve Mic Pre-Amps for drums, what is the best AD converter to place all those raw and pristine clear individual tracks into Logic X - using either thunderbolt or USB (thunderbolt preferred) - without losing the amazing Neve mic-preamp sound character?

[@BarryJohns]

When you are looking a high end, you end up splitting hairs a bit. The Lynx Aurora N would be an excellent choice though.

[@MrNickDrummer]

Thank you for the quick reply! Lynx is interesting as you can configure the converter anyway you want it, I was not familiar with them. Pricey but should last. And they offer thunderbolt as well, excellent.

[@skiiizo]

The Focusrite RED 16Line is fantastic, I have for some months now on a Windows 10 PC and the performance is awesome.

[@BarryJohns]

Honestly, I regret not buying it when all my instincts told me to!!!! I love the Carbon, but want what the Line16 can offer! It was a refurb from Focusrite and it was $2200!!!!!!! I’m still obsessed over the mistake of not buying it!

[@skiiizo]

@@BarryJohns it's never too late 😊

[@stephenpierce2274]

BIG shift for my studio was adding Apogee Rosetta 800. Stunning improved results. Really bummed that it's now obsolete :( Hate to be dropping my 003 control surface as well... And, just made the shift to Apollo x8 and Twin Duo. Can't really do any A B comparisons - too bad. Ideas for continuing to use Rosetta appreciated! Also have 4 channel SSL mic pre strip, and 8 channel Focusrite multi effects strip (not so great), and a pair of Voice Master Pros - would be nice to have them upgraded somehow! Thanks for the video! Nice presence and a topic of interest! Best...

[@mikewhiteman23]

I got a Clarrett 8pre and was wondering if getting the Rosetta is there a point in doing so or not?

[@gwsound]

Still you will notice difference in sound when you change the clock. I did some tests with different world clocks and you can hear it. It will make in general sound any digital device different (not alway better).

[@JohnnyStreamz]

I think dante is the future. I don't have a large setup right now but I get so much sound fidelity from the rednet x2p. I probably will never go back to usb or thunderbolt because I can get way more flexibility using dante. In the future I'll probably get one of those yamaha network switches and audiophile ethernet cables to connect everything. I'm probably one of the few producers that integrates audiophile connections with studio gear. Definitely a gamechanger. Imma add more channels but I can do it using a red 8 line or more rednet gear too. 💯

[@thatchinaboi1]

Thunderbolt is still KING when it comes to lowest RTL.

[@JohnnyStreamz]

@@thatchinaboi1 I've used thunderbolt and usb but I still hear higher fidelity from ethernet. I started using Dante Via today and it's definitely helpful too.

[@xgenealex]

I use the Focusrite 6i6 1Gen at the moment and would like to upgrade Should I get the Apogee Symphony Desktop OR the Universal Audio Volt 476

[@billbradleymusic]

I bumped up from presonus firepod's to the focusrite clarette's and there's a superior difference in my humble opinion. Not a huge difference in price for the time either. Extra hundred bucks each or so. But, there were 10-15 years in between there.

[@anaiybeatx]

Great video but can you show as pictures when you talk about a gear in the video

[@BarryJohns]

Yes I can if that helps!

[@henrygentles1894]

Converters for tracking preamps etc are all nearly the same now but for Mastering Converters the difference is still massive! Night and day! Unless you have Mastering Converters in a Mastering Studio with high end monitors etc to listen to them critically, how would you even know? It's like a Rally Car driver saying his car is as fast as F1 car on slow corners! Some PPL are too dumb to understand even that much?

[@p.m-audio]

barry do you say that RME with the UCX and UFX Series are semi Pro ? cause they dont cost 3 -4 000 Dollars

[@BarryJohns]

When I sold my Avid Carbon I bought a UFX+, hopefully that answers the question.

[@p.m-audio]

@@BarryJohns Thanks yes ! Me too, but they dont produce the UFX+ (cause the thunderbold connection, they dont want to design it anymore cause Apple has stopped with this) anymore only the UFX2 and i bought it before a month, and i love it. The Support is oustanding, i phone to RME in Germany, and they directly helped me out and used Teamviewer to show me totalmix settings for recording on Studio one. I believe i will get a longtime user for RME