Why the British Motorcycle Industry died

[@thomasackermann]

My best friend, a German Master Tool-Maker from Wuppertal, was an enthusiast for special, British motorcycles, until he went for a factory visit, at the BSA Works in 1964! He asked one of the Foremen, where he could find any apprentices, to take over, when the present, almost pensioner-generation, would retire? He was told: "We build the best motorcycles in the world, why would we need apprentices??" I applied, in 1968, for a job as Design-Engineer, at the Velocette factory in Birmingham. of which I still have my letter and the reply from the "Personell-Officer". Their reply was similar to the one from BSA, " We make the best motorcycles in the world and don't need Design-Engineers!" In 1974, one of our best customers, a Norton enthusiast, had his bike, a "Commando", serviced by us and complained, that it was, permanently, leaking oil! When I removed the Primary-chain- cover, I noticed, that the groove, which carried the rubber seal, varied, in depth, by some 2 Millimeters as it was only "sand-cast" and not machine-cut and when I called the "Chief" responsible for the production, he almost shouted at me, "We don't need lessons from you, as we have and are building, the best motorcycles in the World!" Lack of industrial knowledge, arrogance, over-aged, out-of-date machine tools and only looking forward to retirement, were the real reasons, why the British Motorcycle industry died!

[@beachcomber2008]

As an engineering apprentice (early sixties) and future design engineer (seventies and later) I experienced an exactly similar set of experiences. The system was set to destroy itself without any help from the likes of you and me. Every involvement with it was painful. Ships, trains, cars, bikes - engineering itself didn't interest Britain's 'owners'. WE were going to 'service the world's capital'. It took me awhile to escape that miserable place.

[@chucks6781]

Also the owners just took money out left nothing for investment or development such as the Dockers a real leach

[@damianbutterworth2434]

We are all computerised now. Robots all over the place. I work in a steel forge making crankshafts for CAT and John Dierre for the EU and America. I used to have a BSA a65 unit construction, velocette venom and a Honda 750/4. The Honda was loads more reliable. I used to have stuff fall off the English bikes all the time. :) Still good fun tho feeling the thud of the engine but the Honda sounded great too.

[@ludo9234]

The camshafts for the Norton commando were a disaster. Not hardened correctly and sometimes they were ground wrong when the cam machine went wrong. I had to replace my camshafts twice before i sold the heap.

[@damianbutterworth2434]

@@ludo9234 My dad has a Dominator. :)

[@Fete_Fatale]

I owe my life to a British bike. My grandfather visited his sister ... way back in Easter 1926, riding his then almost new 1924 Douglas TS 350. My grandma lived across the street from her future sister-in-law, and soon discovered this beautiful motorcycle had caused her knicker elastic to fail. A shotgun wedding, and my eldest aunt happened in short order.

[@domenik8339]

This is one of the greatest pieces of literature I have ever had the pleasure of reading.

[@jzimmerman284]

Greatest love story ever told lmao

[@jameseast7966]

Cute!!!!

[@jinz0]

still better than twilight

[@Austin_Soares]

You need to be an author with a book.

[@Dallas-Nyberg]

I recall, in the late 1960's, checking out a brand new Norton Commando at a local dealer. I noticed that there was a oil catch tray under it. When I asked why it was there, the young salesman said... "It's a Norton, if it is not leaking oil, then there is probably none left in it"

[@rhuephus]

that is one of the reasons I bought a Honda instead of a BSA, Triumph or Norton ... Much better engineered and manufactured, AND Honda dealers were friendly -- Brit bike dealers always walked around with the noses in the air, thinking they were better ...

[@victormiranda9163]

this is why I liked the Honda bikes I met. no need to clean the oil off it.

[@paulblouin6955]

@@rhuephus Norton and Triumph were quicker and better handling though. I posted links to rod test data above. If you wanted quicker and better handling, it wasn't Honda.

[@obfuscated3090]

@@paulblouin6955 I collect vintage British motorcycles but they are for real mechanics and in NO respect for owners who are not highly skilled. The minor statistical differences in contemporary road tests were and remain FUNCTIONALLY irrelevant. The trouble with (most) Britbike enthusiasts is love is blind. The aftermarket makes buckets of money correcting their MANY defects and they're still not remotely reliable 1970s standards. Much love for my 1969 Trident, 1972 Miles Engineering framed Trident and Norton Commandos but I sure as hell wouldn't martyr myself dailying them despite being more than capable and having done so for several years. British looks were beautiful but their drivetrains were both lovely cast art and pathetically delicate. Reliability was regarded as an insult (the even worse Prestolite two brush starter on Commando vs. the slightly less fecal HD four brush is an example. My collection (except for the Miles frame I bought in West Germany) is thanks to previous owners who gave up because they were not mechanics.

[@edmundooliver7584]

@@obfuscated3090 I would say it's the look and style, just like the HD's they look good.

[@jimc3891]

Owned a 1970 BSA “Thunderbolt” 650cc touring bike. Had to tighten most bolts, screws, etc after every ride. Did leak but not excessively. Bike caught on fire on a wild night ride when the carburetor decided to loosen all it’s bolts holding the upper and lower halves together. Flying down the dark country roads of Northeast Connecticut the bike started to sputter, I did not think it was running out of fuel, but switched to reserve on tank anyway and the bike surprisingly roared back at full throttle and seemed all was well until I had to slow down for a traffic light at the only major intersection for miles when the bike exploded in flames. The carburetor basically fell apart dumping gasoline on the hot motor under it that once not being cooled by the speed I was traveling at reached combustion temps when slowed down for the traffic light. The flames roared up through and around my legs over the tank up to burning the gloves I was wearing as well as melting the rubber throttle and scorching everything else. My passenger, a girl friend, who thought she was out for a fun ride, stepped off the back, I dismounted and gently layed the bike down and walked away from the flaming spectacle. The flames shot up around fifteen feet or so when two guys working a late night gas station (just a gas a station back then) ran out with a couple of fire extinguishers and emptied them on the fiery melting heap. They just about had the flames extinguished when a fire truck seemingly out of nowhere appeared and finished off the job they started. I missed my old machine, but I believe burning up that night it saved my life. My riding was getting out of hand, increasingly taking more and more risk and riding when I clearly should have not. I made an attempt to rebuild her, but after taking what was left apart, I realized my heart was not into it, and traded her remains for three months rent.

[@IdeaBoxful]

Just a footnote, Royal Enfield moved on to India. It kept on producing the Bullet for the Indian masses. The same situation happened in India in late 80's and early 90's. The Japanese imports came in pushed the company to its knees. I had an opportunity to visit its factory in Avadi, Chennai, South India. I remember sitting in its main meeting room where they had the entire company history in pictures. This was in late 2000's. The Bullet was dying in the market, same problems oil leaks and bad build. They used to test their motorcycle by listening using ears! A practice that was long gone in other manufacturers. But I also saw some intial steps being taken to modernize their plant. For example they had started experimenting with the use of modern day bonding technologies to solve the oil leak problem. The company has now really revamped itself under new management. They have started introducing some exciting segments like the cafe racer class and number of new models in the bullet line. They have an enthusiast clientie now. And their manufacturing quality has gone up significantly. They have re entered the British and American markets with some good bikes. It is a kind of reverse invasion for the brand given its orginal British roots.

[@yogeshrane1134]

And Mahindra & Mahindra are back with triumph and Java

[@adventurer5125]

Wait , isn't re indian origin bike , it was born in Chennai

[@IdeaBoxful]

@@yogeshrane1134 Partly because our choice of bikes are changing. They are not just transport anymore. We too want to have fun with our bikes!

[@hurri7720]

@@yogeshrane1134 , first time Java was mentioned here, it was quite popular in northern Europe as well fairly good and rather cheep too. Not a "status" bike but not that bad either.

[@devanathg2179]

@@adventurer5125 no it was a British brand but now an Indian brand watch its history video on u tube

[@ernestmathews4674]

I was there at the end, when the Brit brands were still using production machinery from WW1 and paying stockholders bonuses...what a train wreck. I went from a BSA Super Rocket to a CB750 that never leaked, always started, and didn't need tightening everything weekly.

[@Helm-w1q]

Same-o same-o went from Triumph Bonneville to 750 Honda. Same reasons. It was a toughy. The Brits make some damn fine "looking" motorcycle. Their new bikes, I own one, and have owned it twenty years. It's held up great so far.

[@mhoppy6639]

🎯 innovate or die. They chose the latter. Good to see Triumph respecting their heritage but also taking advantage of modernity at the same time. With that combo they seem to be thriving. Such a refreshing change for me as an English person.

[@carlatamanczyk3891]

I worked in a motorcycle shop as a mechanic that sold Honda, BSA, Norton and Triumph. When I uncrated and assembled the first Honda 750 4 cylinder bike and serviced it, then took it out for a demo, I was amazed how well it ran. The amazing aspect was no oil leaks and amazing reliability compared to the British bikes. A couple die hard Brit bike mechanics had a hard time accepting that their beloved Beezers, Triumphs and Nortons were on their way out.

[@caribman10]

I was a Royal Enfield owner in the late 60's. I wanted to buy a new high performance motorcycle. The Triumph Trident was available, but I liked the BSA Rocket 3. Dealer brought me over; turned on the fuel tap. Set the choke (cable). Primed the carburetors by pushing down the two little nipples on the outside carbs. Turned the ignition key. Unfolded the kick starter. Gave it a kick. Gave it another one, it started. I kind of liked it, nice color of red. On my way home, stopped by the Honda dealer. Dealer walked over to the bike, set the choke, turned on the fuel, turned on the ignition and pushed the start button. Started right away. I bought the Honda.

[@bsimpson6204]

We were all making the same decisions, stood side by side, it was a no brainer.

[@radiation0111]

Honda never let me down.

[@fiveowaf454]

I rather missed the British bike era, by 1976 when I started riding in the UK, there were no British sports mopeds and only the Triumph 750's. However I always loved what we called the "export Bonneville" based on looks alone, as youngsters we knew nothing about them. Having owned many motorcycles since then, finally just over 10 years ago, I started to buy some vintage motorcycles that I'd always wanted back in the day. I currently own two British bikes a 73 Triumph Tiger 750 and a 68 BSA Victor 441 along with a number of Japanese Motorcycles. Once you honestly compare the Japanese and British motorcycles of the same era in terms of design, maintenance, ease of repair and the riding experience there's really no need to watch this video, the problem is as clear as day. While I love my British bikes because of their, and my heritage, and they are fun to own, they are like something from a different era of time and this translates into the present day where bikes like my Kawasaki Z1000A2 are still very rideable, even compared to modern motorcycles, my 73 Tiger lets you know you are having a "vintage experience" in every way, that comes from it's 1930's roots and the fact it remained frozen in time, while other manufacturers who'd invested in the future, leapt ahead on every front with rapid development. The whole debacle of the British motorcycle industry still leaves me feeling sad as it is part of a much bigger picture of how pretty much all our engineering and manufacturing based businesses went into a rapid decline and demise.

[@davidpatterson9840]

I've had two Tridents, a 1974 and a 1972. They do take some maintenance and a specific starting ritual. It doesn't help that three sets of points required constant attention. Adding electronic ignition is a wise upgrade. My only experience with the CB750 was pushing that heavy SOB in and out of the shop where I used to work. That turned off any temptation to actually ride one.

[@doctorpanigrahi9975]

You are a traitor mate 🧉

[@peterherrington3300]

Grandad had bikes in the 30s , dad was a triumph man till the 80s & I've been a lifelong biker (Japanese mainly) ever since. They didn't understand why I wanted fast , reliable & daily usable bikes & I didn't understand why they didn't. "Get a proper bike" was something I heard constantly. "Fancy a ride" I said , "not today , won't start" was the common reply . . .

[@georgiishmakov9588]

- Get a proper bike - Fancy a race?

[@bsimpson6204]

And that 'Not today, won't start' is still going on today with my mates hoard of old bikes that don't work

[@InventorZahran]

What good is a "proper bike" if there's a 30% chance you can't ride it today?

[@hisdadjames4876]

It was the mirror image of the collapse of the British car industry....post-colonial arrogance, traditionalism, lack of innovation and bad labour relations leading eventually to irrelevant, poorly engineered and poorly built vehicles (compared to modern competitors)🤷‍♂️

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Exactly

[@paulroberts7561]

I seem to remember AMC, which owned Notton, Villiers, Frances Barnet ec. Was run by Monty Finniston, not sure if the spelling is correct, after he destroyed the motorcycle industry he moved on the BMC, later British Leyland, who had a world beating car, the mini. He later was knighted by Thacher, for his contribution to British industry. He later became the boss of British Steel, We all know what happened to them? Thanks Monty.

[@specialse]

well put and add to the fact that the CB 750 and XS 650 turned up in 1969 the end was soon to come for the UK bike industry .

[@adrianrouse5148]

Development in the British motorcycle industry stopped in the 1950s. All the money went to shareholders. They were producing motorcycles with pre war machines. In factory's that were never upgraded. The designers. The engineers. We're there but carried no weight. Simple faults that were easily fixed were left to save a few pence for the shareholder's. When the Japanese bikes arrived there was nothing left in the bank to compete. It was just polishing the same old bikes.

[@MrLeslloyd]

There were the trucks also,big names went and the ship building industries it goes on,for me the bike engineers were bottom of the class,mostly bar some exceptions.

[@Chris_at_Home]

I was in the military in the 1970s and a bunch of us had motorcycles, mostly Honda 350CLs. One guy had a Triumph and after he rode with us a few times we would sneak off without him because he always had to stop and adjust this or that.

[@larrynorsworthy8582]

I believe that.

[@tamar5261]

I had a BSA C15 in the mid 70s, my friends had Japanese bikes. I would stop every 10 miles or so to reset the timing and points. I don't think the Lucas distributor was upto the vibration. I sold it after one summer and got a Suzuki hustler 250. Nice reliable bike but my friends RD250 would leave me in a puff of blue smoke.

[@Dave-ty2qp]

Kinda the same story, but we had a bunch of different bikes, and times were different. We tried each others bikes out all the time. I noticed that graduadly honda rulled the roost. We would make jokes abou going riding, do you want to go with us and push your Harley? I loved the triumps, BSA, Nortons etc but leaking and lack of reliability was the issue.

[@kensanity178]

I bought a Triumph Bonneville t100 eight years ago. Its proven to be a junky bike compared to the three other bikes I have owned.

[@bjarkih1977]

I work in a motorcycle museum. There's a lot of Triumphs there. (plus several BSA,Nortons and Ariels.) The only Hondas are the 'milestones' such as a 1969 CB750 and then older Hondas that are more of a showpiece today. What I'm saying is that the Hondas are more likely to be in regular use ;)

[@tonyfurneaux3399]

As a Brit lol, your video was very good, however I think you missed out on an important fact. The way, and the tools used to make the brit bikes were the same tools used decades before. The management FAILED to retool the factories. The guys building the bikes were more or less building the bikes from the ground up. A major mistake. Instead of having a production line, with workers being expert at a few jobs to build bikes, they had a few expert workers with many major skills building some bikes.

[@GT380man]

So did that make cost of manufacture a disadvantage vs the Japanese, who used a Ford car-like process engineering early on & are still refining that today? Probably a better place to work for the factory employees. But ultimately cost was just one of several, each pretty much lethal, problems towards the end. Such a shame that we let everything go. We make so little cf even when I was a little lad in the 1960s. The Club of Rome hadn’t yet been formed, but Operation Paperclip had injected thousands into North America. Little could we have even guessed that the grandchildren of those picked up from a shattered Germany would end up destroying our entire world. For the Fourth Industrial Revolution read the Fourth Reich.

[@stewartellinson8846]

This is not actually true - AMC and BSA /T both spent huge sums on retooling; AMC retooled the netire Plumstead factory around 1958 (se link). Here's the rub; they retooled to make the same things they'd always made. They retooled to make pushrod engines with vertically split crakcases and seperate gearboxes. Failure to innovate and a failure to think about what the world's market needed (that's the rest of the world - not the UK & USA). www.workingatamc.london/images/links/article_alfred_herbert_machines.pdf

[@tommytar222]

I think you've been “led up the garden path” as they say..# Stand back and look for other similar happenings. They found lots of oil in WW2 while fighting. Oil the time machine. The British bike ended up in large dug holes all just scraped. The car came. My dad had a British car 1950s Then 60s we had Ford cars till 90s. Motorways or Freeways were built in the 60s no one used them = Government closed half the rail network down {Dr.Beeching cuts}Roads full now. This gave surplus aviation fuel. All Uk seaside resorts went exactly the same way as the Bike ,Car, Uk holiday scene. = Cheap flights to Spain ,Cheap bikes Japan,Cheap cars .US. Next was the Unions to go. The coal miners /Shipyards /Belfast, Liverpool ,Glasgow and others. All was put under government ownership then shut down,Look back and tell me what was the distraction in these working towns. (IRA. Belfast./ thieving Scousers /Liverpool others) All came under government control and closed down. The Uk was ahead in everything. Space flights, cars, bikes,radar and jet planes. All given away because we design not build now. It's cheaper ,world markets. A lot given to the US. Bikes/cars given to japs /Germans. Unemployment and lack of oil causes wars.

[@stewartellinson8846]

@@tommytar222 your answer is ahistorical and largely illiterate. I'll try to address it bit by bit 1) most oil was found before or after the war; oil discoveries during the war were pretty much zero due to the fighting being quite important. 2) "Motorways or Freeways were built in the 60s no one used them" - the motorway network was designed to deal with the trunk road overcrowing problem; it did this. People did use them as expected 3) Government closed half the rail network down {Dr.Beeching cuts) - this happened because the lines in question were very unprofitable. Most lost a ot of money 4) This gave surplus aviation fuel - aviation fuel is not petrol, it's kerosene 5) The Uk was ahead in everything. Space flights, cars, bikes,radar and jet planes. - no we weren't. Your "arguement" is gibberish and makes little sense. try reading some history books. Start with Steve Koerner's "the strange death of the British motorcycle industry"

[@adrianrouse5148]

@@stewartellinson8846 not realy . The drawing offices put out plenty of ideas but we're never taken in use .management had stock holders to keep happy. A paper gasket should have had a rubber seal. But the new tools were deemed to expensive. The guys in the race departments knew these faults and the race bikes got rubber seals machined as a one off. Quil feeds another example. Most of these designs were from the 1930s

[@azog23]

Another book that's worth reading is "whatever happened to the british motorcycle industry" by Bert Hopwood. He was an engineer who worked at Norton, Triumph, and BSA over the years. It turns out that they had recognised that their products were lacking and had designs for bikes at all levels of the market but management consistently ignored the engineers.

[@jasonhull1342]

Probably the best book out there he was after all there at the time and he worked at several British companies. I have read about 20 books about the motorcycle industry including Steve Koerner book ,not the best and not all about the British either to give some perspective and balance. Japans motorcycle wars is must by Jeffery Alexander

[@MrSummerblade]

In my own 58 years of experience, I can only say that British ‘management’ is generally appalling at all levels, almost medieval and feudal in its outlook, and consistently stymies and wastes the talent that these islands produce

[@hurri7720]

@@MrSummerblade , Well yes just look at your government. It is disturbing.

[@britishwillywanker]

I think they took the British approach to the Jap bikes ignore them and they will go away ! .

[@jamesfairmind2247]

Speaking as a Brit this is the fairest and most historically accurate documentary made about the British motorcycle industry, hands down, excellent job! BTW, early pre-war two Triumph adverts also boasted "made entirely by skilled male craftsman with no women at all employed in construction" or words very close to that effect.

[@johnconlon9652]

By The Way (just worked it out), a mate and I hitched lifts on a pair of BSA Spitfire 650s in Greece, 1970. US navy blokes picked them up brand new in Pireus. Fantastic! Except when a headlight might fall out - at night. Work ethos had gone out the window and I remember vividly the resentment felt by workers towards management and shareholders, when they had been grafting away with little reward. The workers that is; the others were considered parasites. Homo sapiens sapiens, non?

[@TheSteinbitt]

When the women entered the workforce, quality declined?

[@jamesfairmind2247]

@@TheSteinbitt Ha,ha, no I very much doubt that had anything to do with it!

[@lonewolfandcub668]

Good.

[@stephenbrookes7268]

I was a kid in the 70s, and we were immersed in a sea of nostalgic pride on what Britain used to be. The young generation did notice that we were living in the past. I looked at Italian cars and motor cycles as being more exotic, French cars as more technically quirky and interesting. American represented huge. It was not considered technically advanced or even upto date. The British were trading on the glory of their history, which was wearing thin. What the Japanese did was pure engineering. What is the problem? Need for mass transportation. Ok! What sort of money have potential customers got? Well, not much. What materials and manufacturing capability do we have? OMG a bicycle factory and a company that makes biscuit tins and one that makes lawn mowers. Mmmmmm. I got it! You remember those crappy Russian tractors we had to remanufacture before we threw them away? Yeah. Can we do a motor bike using pressed steel, simple engine, centrifugal clutch and simple cycle parts ? Sure mr H we can get right on that. The Japanese made what buyers wanted. The Brits told buyers what they wanted.

[@peterc2248]

In the past 40 odd years I've owned pretty much every Japanese brand from 50cc to 1300cc. Surprisingly the 'prestige' German brand was the only one that regularly failed me so I traded it for a Honda. I recently bought a new Honda scooter and I know that with regular maintenance it will last longer than I will. I'll take reliability over character every day.

[@deedeeindustrialsuperprecision]

For decades I had a machine shop where I did cylinder head work, and not once did anyone bring in Goldwing heads.

[@chantakzee]

The joy of character quickly fates when the damn thing fails to start for the Nth time in a row.

[@michaelpielorz9283]

And you never came to the conclusion it wasn`t always the engines fault (;-))

[@krachenford9594]

I agree, my Suzuki never fails.

[@ACE999]

Has anyone ever had a bad Honda?

[@tadroid3858]

I remember my older brother drove from Princeton, NJ to Brooklyn, NY to buy a BSA. Had to have it. He sold it in 3 months and bought a Honda and was a loyal Honda owner for the next 50 years until he stopped riding.

[@hurri7720]

This is the first time I actually realize that in English you actually ride a bike while you drive a car. In my three other languages there is not that difference and riding is for horses.

[@trailrunnermike]

I lived in Brooklyn in the 1970s and my uncle lived on New York Ave. He owned a BSA around 1974-76 and sold it prior to 1978-79. It was navy blue. I wonder if that was your brother’s bike.

[@tadroid3858]

@@trailrunnermike That's crazy, but it was blue! Peace.

[@trailrunnermike]

@@tadroid3858 How many early 1970 BSAs where in Brooklyn at the time in dark blue? Very few. I am guessing my uncle will not remember who he sold it too. I’m going to call him tomorrow and ask.

[@ShuRugal]

lol, @7:30 - this is literally the exact same thing that keeps killing Harley. "we once tried small bikes, they sucked, therefore nobody wants small bikes and we must make two-wheeled pickup trucks"

[@corringhamdepot4434]

Thinking back to the 1970s, the Japanese targeted the learner market with mopeds for 16 year olds, and cubs, and 125, 175, 200 and 250s for learners and commuters. Which then created a market of younger riders looking for bigger bikes, without a prejudice against Japanese motorcycles.

[@cpuuk]

Motorcycles were primarily sold as cheap transport to get around. Over time a more discerning customer appeared who wanted performance and the price went up. Neither customer wanted a pool of oil under their bike in the morning. Quality control was terrible, they came out the factory with minimum assembly effort- there was no concept of quality. All the engines could be made oil tight, you just had to strip them, grind the surfaces down and use the appropriate gasket\ sealant. There's an old British engineering joke (told to me when I join such a firm)- The Germans work to fine tolerances and measure everything with calipers down to 10 thou; The Japanese work to finer tolerances and measure everything with calipers down to 5 thou;The British just look at it and say, yea, near as dammit.

[@Bobby-fj8mk]

One of my mates in the 1970s had his Triumph 650 twin engine which leaked oil so he stripped it down and had all the gasket surfaces milled flat. He rebuilt it with proper gasket sealing compound but within 1 year it was still leaking oil. He finally sold it when after going up a steep hill the clutch push rod popped out right through the engine cases - destroying one side of his engine. On the other hand - another mate rode his Honda CB750 for over 100,000 miles with no problems before he decided to rebuild the engine and some other items. The Honda was faster, more fun to ride and just an overall better bike. I liked the Honda too but I bought an H2 750 Kawasaki and it was the most fun I've ever had. The Triumph was way behind in performance and reliability.

[@davidjohn64]

At that time , the so called skilled worker / toolmaker , was so poorly paid . That was the beginning of the end . Why bother to learn a trade in engineering ?.

[@ian-c.01]

I was born in the late 50's in Liverpool England and my dad rode a BSA to work, I remember him taking me to school on it a couple of times and I loved it ! I never wanted a car and all the Japanese motorbikes I had seen looked very odd to me for some reason. The first motorbike I rode was a stripped down Vespa which was fun but the first real bike I rode was the Tiger Cub which was fantastic when I was 12 and I rode it off road until I broke it then figured out how to fix it ! I loved the simplicity of British bikes and I felt a great affinity for the design and realised that bigger Triumphs and BSA's were just the same only with more parts ! This lead me to be a die hard classic Brit bike rider for decades even though I had many problems with them and needed to carry lots of tools everywhere and had to designate a lot of time to working on them and they were off the road waiting for repairs half the time, I had no interest in Japanese bikes until I got one ! I found myself living is South East Asia and needing transport and everybody was riding round on little scooters so I hired one. I didn't like the fully automatic ones with small wheels and a footboard without footrests but I found the Honda Wave easy to ride. This was the modern version of the Honda Cub with a 125cc engine and I discovered the joy of reliable motorcycling ! Then I got hold of a Suzuki SR400 and it was a breath of fresh air to me, it was everything I loved about motorcycles but didn't leak oil, was reliable, had good lights, electric start, great brakes etc, etc, etc the only thing lacking was the sound and vibration but I could live without that ! It was like stepping out of the Dark Ages into the 21st century and realising that I had been viewing things wrong all my life ! It's easy to see what went wrong with the British motorcycle industry looking back today but at that time they had no idea what was happening or what they could do about it. They were so stuck in their ways and thought processes that nothing was going to make them change ! They were looking at manufacturing like the Victorians before them who were great designers and builders and they were not about to go against everything they stood for, it was beyond them to see any sense or to see what they were doing wrong.

[@j.whisper2379]

I turned 20 in 1968. Being a kid throughout the 60's, I remember how effective the Honda commercials were! I still remember the entire, "you meet the nicest people on a Honda", jingle!

[@dogphlap6749]

I was a young motorcyclist when the Japanese bikes arrived and quickly took over new motorcycle sales. This video mirrors my understanding at the time (and since). The only point I'd like to make is that the large British bikes mentioned here were with a few exceptions 650cc, a size now regarded as smaller displacement. For me 650cc is as big as I'd ever like to go but I'm an old rider, if I was a teenager I might feel differently.

[@lobsterbark]

650 is not "small displacement" by modern standards. It's standard for a fast bike. Not excessive, not small, just right if you like to go fast. If you look at all the media about motorcycles they will have you think a liter is normal and if you really wanna go fast you want even bigger. But they are always trying to sell you expensive stuff because they get sponsors for doing so. But if you pay attention to the sports bikes being commonly ridden today, almost all are 650s. If it's bigger than that it's probably not to go faster, but to not have to rev as high for the same power.

[@davidpatterson9840]

I always felt that 650 is as large as you wish to make a parallel twin, especially with a long-stroke engine. Anything larger runs into problems, like the need for counter balancers or rubber mounting.

[@chrisfournier6144]

That certainly was the case back in the day. I have a ‘76 Triumph a whopping 750 CCs! My Rz350 makes very similar HP. My 1200 CC BMW can carry a heavy load and is a pussy cat! I like them all.

[@ronskancke1489]

In the early 60s I bought a 50 cc Honda to deliver newspapers. The interstate highway system was under construction and my dad, 240 lbs , and I took it up the gravel unopened interstate on a 100 mile round trip to a town where the family still owned some farm land. There were no bridges biult yet and I would get off so dad could walk and power it up some of the bridge approaches. Dad turns 93 in October and I cherish the memory of that day. He worked 80 or more hours a week and it was really hard to find time for doing things together.

[@murksdoc]

I remember well how difficult it was in Continental Europe to get a screw like in 5/7 inch. Screws you lost every day on old motorcycles and if Harley didn't have them (who also were cursing and swearing about Imperial Measures and recommended to seal all screws and nuts with super glue) you had to wait for months until a simple screw arrived. In a Honda, BMW or VESPA, you went to any Hardware store and "here you are".

[@davidjohn64]

BSW / BSF , I screw cut many of these threads , on a lathe ..

[@ssgtmole8610]

As a person living in america, I really wish President Carter had managed to shove the metric system down the asshole manufacturer's throats. How much extra time was added to WWII due to separately tooled supply systems?

[@glenminnick3724]

Brit bikes were just cool and fun to ride. I bought my 500 Tri. Trophy in 1975. I've owned two bonnies, one commando and a Matchless g 80 cs! The feel of riding these things is intoxicating! Yes, they are maintenence intensive , the price of ownership... Haaaa..

[@chrisyonkus7424]

1973 Trident I bought in 1973 was a blast! 750 Hondas didn’t stand a chance 2nd gear front tire in the air as I flew by them. It’s the only toy I ever kept besides my Wife😊! And still have them both!!

[@randydewees7338]

In 1978 as a young USN sailor stationed on San Diego I bought a new 1978 Bonneville 750 for $1820 out the door. I had followed motorcycle models since age 14, when I bought a 1968 CT90 from summer job savings. So, when I was thinking about a big bike, I knew all of the models and all the rationales pro and con. My workmate bought a KZ650 about the same time, he thought I was crazy to buy a Triumph. We parked our bikes side by side at one of the piers at Point Loma Sub Base. Almost immediately the KZ finishes started going downhill - chrome, engine cases, paint, everything. At the end of a year, it was a corroded mess, basically worthless. He got out about that time and gave it away for $200. My Bonnie held up really well with just a bit of wax and polish. I took me a few months to get the Brit bike routine - a full tune up every 4 weeks - replacing the points (Lucas, Prince of Darkness!) every time. Every two weeks I'd take a few minutes to sync the amals to keep it running sweetly. It never let me down. Over 2 years I put 25,000 glorious miles on it riding the San Diego back country, many times with my young bride on the back. When my enlistment ended I sold it as I headed back to finish college. I got $1200 for it, regretted that sale many times since. Since then I've owned many (100+) street bikes. All of them decent to spectacular but only a few made an impression of character like that old Bonny - 1973 BMW R75LWB, 1987 Honda Interceptor 700, and my first real street bike, a 1973 RD250. I see a lot of this "the late 70's Triumphs were crap, etc". Obviously not my experience. This seems to come from people who have no ownership experience with the old bikes. I owned a 1967 Tiger for while, I'd take my 78 T140 over it no question. I've ridden many other old Brit bikes (Norton Commandos, Triumph 500 Daytona, Victor 441, many 650 and 750 twins), all were unique and fun

[@loveisall5520]

I'm really more a car guy than a motorcyle guy--but you have a great channel with a unique approach for bikes: intelligence and objectivity. I grew up in the sixties and remember in my Texas area how few British bikes I'd ever see, just one Moto Guzzi around me, but tons of Hondas. We kids had a set of what would now be called BMX trails, but on our Sting-Rays we called them the "Honda trails". Like the sad demise of British cars over here, when they used to dominate our sales, the lack of determination to get better and do better doomed their motorcycles.

[@sydecarnutz972]

I'm getting older now. Have had 40 bikes over the decades. Now I have settled into a RE 650 GT. I am finding it is "just right". Good power to have fun, good handling and economy. Easy to care for. They really nailed this one! A mid sized 650 twin is a great recipe for a bike.

[@yogeshrane1134]

The RE650 is an Indian bike and not a British/ English one.

[@AlexRye-sv6no]

​@@yogeshrane1134wrong

[@terencemacsweeney3667]

Thank you for a very interesting summation. For me the Japanese had a great tradition in mechanical engineering as a bedrock but they embraced and improved mass production and quality control systems side by side. They developed manufacturing techniques where every finished product was fit for purpose and with little or no scrap throughout the process. Further they developed a commercial approach to listening to what customers wanted and serving them, ... what we now call marketing. For a business to endure marketing and manufacturing can be opposing forces but are always symbiotic.

[@G58]

At 4:00 you missed an opportunity to give appropriate credit for the BSA Bantam. It was of course only possible due to BSA being gifted with the stolen German DKW designed engine, via war reparations, as part of the UK government recognition of BSA’s contribution to the war effort - which they were of course well paid for. Otherwise, there would not only not be a post war lightweight BSA, but there would likely be no BSA. But instead of learning from that gift, BSA simply sat on their laurels and muddled through, ignoring the competition from Japanese companies, chiefly Honda. However, the real problem was the availability of investment and funding for new projects. Japan, Germany and Italy were financially rewarded for playing their part in the second imperialist slaughter of the 20th century, whereas Britain was on rations up until 1954! What we need to understand is that business is war, and war is business. Just as the countries that receive the most funding for the duration, will win the war, those countries that receive the most funding during the period which follows, will win the peace. Add to these macroeconomic factors, the lamentable British management skills, zero imagination, innovation or advanced design initiatives, a thoroughly disgruntled workforce, gross political incompetence and some outside influenced worker’s rights agitation, and you have the perfect setting for the planned de-industrialisation of the UK. Japan was the holding game post WW2. But from long before Heinrich Kissinger’s meeting with (Yale educated) Mao in 1972, the plan was for China to take over as the world’s leading manufacturer of everything. So Britain’s bike industry was just the caged canary. The equally poor car industry soon followed down the same world bank commissioned drain. And as the USA’s rust belt testifies today, we weren’t their only targets.

[@Full_Otto_Bismarck]

If it wasnt Kissinger and the Nixon administration who orchestrated the move of manufacturing to China then who was it? Not trying to be snarky but genuinely curious who should be blamed for that.

[@borderlands6606]

The Bantam and MZ 2-strokes had the same origins. It should be noted that MZ were a force to be reckoned with in motorcycle racing, and it was the defection of Grand Prix rider Ernst Degner with Walter Kaaden's MZ secrets that enabled Japanese 2-stroke dominance. Post-War British manufacturing was a lions lead by donkeys scenario, with some highly innovative engineering shelved in favour of antiquated designs.

[@G58]

@@borderlands6606 All new innovation costs time and money to research and develop, and then tool up to put into production. Therefore the key root issue was the lack of investment. This means that even if the management of the British bike companies did have the foresight to take those leaps, they totally lacked the financial capacities to do anything about it. We also need to understand that that situation was intentionally contrived by those in charge of the global financial systems post WW2. Furthermore, the single individual most responsible for that situation was Winston Spencer Churchill!!

[@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess]

Reparations for what? Nobody forced British to go to war against Germany. It was the POS shill crown who chose to do that, to defend the jewish international financial institutions, that exploited European population. Mosley wanted to be neutral and help Germany to crush the Soviet red disease once and for all. He was the one who wanted the British true white population's wellbeing and had their interest in mind. Over 10 million German people were murdered and their cities were ravaged to the ground, a lot of stuff was lost like natural history artifacts and findings in Berlin. And British government also helped communists perpetrate the genocide of East Germans. They are the ones who are owed reparations

[@hurri7720]

There are huge errors in your post and I would recommend Fintan O'Toole, in "The Politics of Pain" for you kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnKTaYaOf52gd7s The advantage the Germans the Italians and Japan had after the war was that they had to rebuild to start again, and meanwhile Britain rebuilt nothing improved nothing, sat there complaining still convinced of being world leading. It's a sad story, ongoing and still world leading.

[@tres311]

Bart, keep grinding! One day, you’ll have at least a million subs! Great videos, editing, writing/narration. This is a million dollar channel waiting for an algorithmic push.

[@skysurferuk]

As a Brit teen biker of the 70's, I can say, you're pretty spot on. My last brit was a BSA A10 Lightning. A POS. My next...? 750 k4. Night & day difference. Yeah, british bikes at the time were... just oily, unreliable crap. An enjoyable analysis.

[@ACE999]

I bought a Triumph Daytona 500cc in 1969 brand new from the showroom. It looked and sounded glorious! It pissed oil all over the back wheel, and the useless mechanics could not stop it after many tries. These days I would demand a full refund but then I was just a kid.

[@billl7551]

As soon as I saw the year, it thought . . . .that was a crap year (and every one after it. ) A friend got a new '67 Daytona 500, a wonderfully balanced machine! A 750 trident that I saw arrived in '69 was corroded horribly, still in the crate. This was a sad, ugly end to both Triumph and BSA (followed by Norton). Even though getting dated, it was lovely machinery when machined and assembled properly. Good research, poor, products, no improvements, and no decent new products. Total failure to attend to the market. Kinda like politics this year, and our ultimate demise. Our hope for a wake-up is fading.

[@philliprobinson7724]

Hi from down under. The first factor in the demise of the great British motorcycle, was Alec Issigonis' Mini Minor, about 1958. Before the Mini, it was understood by all M/C makers that they needed to make bikes that could tow around a sidecar, the combination being the poor man's car because it was taxed and insured at the same rate as a motorcycle. When the Mini appeared, M/C makers didn't click that they'd just lost their most important home market. Six-fifty cc was a good size for sidecar work, fast enough on the open road, but still reasonably economical. Five hundreds were sidecar sloggers too. The BSA M30 500 cc side-valve did stirling service in the war, the sidecar carrying supplies off-road. Lots of exposed tubes on the frame meant there were points where a sidecar could be bolted on, and most makers provided lugs at these points. The need to drag around sidecars fixed the British definition of what "a proper motorcycle" should be. Being detachable meant the bike could be sold as a solo machine, or a combination, unlike the Reliant Robin, or the J.A.P. engined 3 wheeler Morgan. Sidecars were also bought or sold separately. Ariel's square four ("squaffer") was made primarily for sidecar work, as was the Matchless four of the thirties, and the HRD Vincent. The mother of all single bangers made for sidecar work was the Panther 650 single, with a long stroke motor, (bore about 88 mm, stroke, 106 mm.). It didn't rev. very fast, but did it have grunt! All the big singles had a decompressor lever on the handlebar so you could kickstart it without breaking your leg if it backfired. Much skin was lost from beginner's shins. To see a M/C combination on a 500 ES2 Norton in action, get onto you-tube and find some episodes of the TV sitcom "George and Mildred". The Mini was the beginning of the end. Rest in Peace, or should I say "Pieces". Cheers, or commiserations, whatever doesn't cross-thread you. P.R.

[@chucks6781]

The BSA Gold Flash was also used a lot i had a 4 seater sidecar & towbar for my 13 foot boat for fishing towed perfect up to about 60 mph

[@routmaster38]

Most folk quote 1959 as the birth of the Austin mini but right after my basic RN training in 1958,I was posted to Halfar naval airstation in Malta and met an older school pal who had a brand new red Austin Mini,completewith on the floor starter,sliding windows and a pull wire to open the door.

[@philliprobinson7724]

@@chucks6781 Hi Chucks. After one year I hope you're still alive and kicking----the starter crank. 🥴Nice bike the Gold Flash, I never owned one, but had a blat or two on my mate's. I had a Matchless G9 500 solo, and later a Tiger 100. Towing your outfit, did you find the Goldie burnt out clutch plates? Cheers, P.R.

[@Oooo-bi7bi]

My dad who was around at the time said they leaked oil, brakes didn’t work and bits fell off at speed from vibration.

[@StreetBob-tn1ed]

your dad told you the truth i must have had 20 brit bikes from the late 60s to the earley 70s and thay where unreliable crap i even got the the sack for constant lateness because my ariel arrow wouldnt start in the cold weather

[@Oooo-bi7bi]

@@StreetBob-tn1ed he said as much as it hurt. Him and his friends all switched to Japanese bikes overnight.

[@lensman5762]

As a Brit who works in industry, I tell you that the British engineers have all the ideas, but those who head the industries have absolutely none, bunch of accountants. Next to zero investment, very little ongoing training, excessive profit taking, slow to respond to market changes, workforce with low moral, etc etc. Now that is a recipe for abject failure. Motorcycle, Car, Electronics, the list is endless.

[@phillipkeeling7327]

Just discovered this channel. Great video. I was a little kid in the 60s and all my badass heros were screaming around on Bonnevilles and commandos. My first bikes were Yamahas, dirt bikes and later a 650 twin, indestructible things. But I had always wanted a British bike. A few years ago I Bought a barn find 79 bonneville 750, last gasp-oil in frame, still kick start but had crude electronic ignition and disc brakes. When it ran it was a wonderful thing, that sound and feel but OMG what a pain in the ass! Each time I worked on it I was absolutely amazed how crude it was. Had to chase bits and pieces from the ends of the earth and even the NOS stuff was crap. I finally got it to where it would start, idle and run, put it on Craig’s list and sold it to a guy about my age who fell in love at first sight. I listened as the guy clicked through the gears going down the road. What a lovely sound. Glad I would never see or hear the f#&@ thing again.

[@MW-xm1rc]

In 1970 I bought a 68 Triumph 650 cc, it was a fun bike to ride, BUT it was unreliable. The bolts were made from very soft steel and the electrical system was bad. When the bikes came from Japan, it was ballgame over.

[@bassmana2z686]

Thanks for this great content. I have lived through the decline of the British motorcycle industry and ridden some of the bikes you mention. This video is both fair and accurate.

[@shaggybreeks]

I worked at a Suzuki/Triumph dealer in the late 60s. Suzuki dealer markup was 30%. For Triumph, it was something like 18.5%. We preferred the Japanese bikes for many reasons, but the bottom line for a dealer is the profit margin.

[@elisabattle8456]

Owned a 250 BSA, 500 Victor BSA, Triumph 500 and a 1979 Triumph Bonneville 750. Currently own two Moto Guzzis and DO NOT MISS the reign of British bikes back in the 60s to early 70s. Fun to drive, look at and maneuver due to the relatively light weight, but you can only pack so many tools on a bike to deal with mechanical issues and I finally gave up. The same held true with a 1974 MGB GT (British) that was fantastic to drive when it was running. Moved to Subaru after I couldn't take British "engineering" anymore. --Mike

[@hennygoossens3655]

I had the honor to drive a BSA Royal Star. 500cc from 1972 it was a struggle for survivale every single day. After that bike, got a Honda four 500cc The joy i had cant be described. It was if i entered another world.

[@andyhowlett2231]

My older brother had three motor bikes back in the late 60's. He had a Triumph Tiger Cub, a BSA (can't recall model) and finally a Honda 60. Both British bikes leaked oil and one of them had a habit of frying its battery. Guess which one was 100% reliable?

[@ddavidson5]

At the time, the 1960's & 70s, it seemed to me that the British motorcycle industry acted as if they had invented the prefect motorcycle and then just kept building it. If you thought, well I would like something else, the attitude from the British industry seemed to be that you wanted the wrong thing. Or maybe it was just that they were running out of money and didn't have the wherewithal to invest in new products. Certainly by the time the writing was on the wall they were out of resources to do much about it. The U.S. motorcycle manufacturers suffered from much the same thing and even Harley-Davidson barely survived but revived once the boomer nostalgia craze got going. At least Harley-Davidson now has the resources to try something new though their best customers seem rooted in "tradition" and are not adapting too well to change. We'll have to see how that plays out. Perhaps today's big motorcycle manufacturers will adapt but I see that the motorcycle manufacturers from India are starting to make some waves. Just ripples right now but it could turn into something more. Royal Enfield is in the top 10 in sales in the UK so who knows.

[@Full_Otto_Bismarck]

The great depression killed off most of the American motorcycle manufacturers. By the end of the 1930s you really only had two manufacturers and that was Indian and Harley Davidson. Prior to the stock market crash of 1929 American motorcycles were world class machines with plenty of innovation and arguably Harley Davidson has never been so innovative as they were in the 1920s and 1930s. So for most of these companies it was a failing economy that killed them off, not a lack of modern products.

[@5tr41ghtGuy]

As Harley Davidson's boomer customers dwindle, they try desperately to diversify their product line with forward looking offerings. Unfortunately, HD lacks the engineering depth and resources of their competitors - HD's new products are either ridiculously overpriced, or just an original aesthetic slapped on top of a European or Chinese platform.

[@paulblouin6955]

@@Full_Otto_Bismarck Indian made a shaft drive V twin Moto Guzzi style for WW II Before Guzzi ever did I'm fairly sure.

[@Full_Otto_Bismarck]

@@paulblouin6955 Dont recall that one but Indian did have some very interesting and ahead of their time motorcycles in the pre war period.

[@paulblouin6955]

@@Full_Otto_Bismarck It was called the Indian 841 I believe. It has a Wikipedia page. I googled it on my phone but my phone is crap for saving links. Or I am.

[@svenbeowulfsson641]

My first real motorcycle was a Triumph 650 Twin Bonneville T 120. At that time I lived in Kiel, next to Hamburg in Germany. That was in 1975. My friends, who mainly rode BMW, or NSU Max or Japanese motorcycles, laughed at my Bonni from 1970. It lost oil, the engine shook and was all parts off or vibrated it broke. One asked mockingly the howvielte piston set I already had and laughed at my machine. Others drove Norton which were better or Moto Guzzi 750 which were very good, but heavy. But I was proud of my Bonni and after I had brought on a Norway tour to the Arctic Circle the new exhaust bags broken and broken strapped on the luggage home, it should be different. I traveled to London and bought at Pride & Clark a new wiring harness with lamp and fittings, as well as a piston set and carburetor parts and more. Very cheap at the time because the pound was down. I then removed the engine, had the cylinders ground out, supported the engine with pistons and new bearings and had the crankshaft fine balanced at a specialty shop with new bearings. All reassembled, no more oil leaking and with the new electrics, the engine suddenly ran smoothly with little vibration, no longer shook off parts and with its 50 hp was suddenly faster than the BMWs and other older big non-British bikes. So it was clear: Well made, with the best material and carefully assembled my Bonni had become a swell bike, with good road holding, better than the Japanese and didn't need to hide from the Japanese competition. Even the new 750cc two-cylinder Yamaha had more vibrations and was heavier than my 190 kg Bonni.

[@spiegelbetrachtung1290]

Not sure if it's just me, but the video seems to end abruptly mid-sentence at 19:40

[@derjungefuchs6870]

It's not just you.

[@mtkoslowski]

It did. I wonder what happened? All his other videos close properly.

[@freewill1114]

I bought a Honda CB450 in 1966, first production, with a 4 speed and large gas tank (4.5 gal? ). Rode it all over California, up to Seattle twice, and a lot of places in Washington State. It started every time, even when I was a little negligent about tuneups. Reliably got 50 mpg, sometimes better. My dealer where I bought it also sold Triumphs. When I would look down the row of Triumphs, every one had a pan under it to catch the oil leaks; the rows of Hondas had not a single drop under them. My room mate friend in Seattle bought the 750 when it came out, and it blew my socks off! I had the opportunity to cruise it on a wide open freeway, and 70 seemed like 55 on my 450. When I turned up the wick, it effortlessly climbed right up to 100, and was ready for more, but I wasn't, so turned it back down to 70. It had the brakes to go with the impressive power and handling, and I would have bought a 750 if I could have, but my life was changing, and the 450 was my last motorcycle, alas. Great memories from the 60's and early 70's!

[@johnvencill1511]

Honda 450 a great bike

[@Siskiyous6]

I owned a BSA 650 at the same time I owned a Honda 750F. The BSA was awesome when it ran, but Lucas saw to it that running was a highly variable thing. I did have a set of plans to re-wire up, but someone made a good offer for it. the Honda ran and ran and ran. They lost because they did not focus on ridability.

[@bjj4tone]

Man, so much cool footage and so many cool pictures in this video. Thanks, king. 👑

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

The demise of the British motorcycle industry can be summed up in two words: Greed and arrogance. There was a culture in all of the manufacturer's boardrooms in the post war era that "British was the best". The allies had won the war and a mindset evolved that dismissed competition as a result. Board members were also dismissive of investment in plant, training and design, preferring rather to pay dividends to shareholders and of course also pay themselves handsomely. This reluctance to invest in machinery, technology and staff training resulted in a product that was really only suitable for enthusiasts. Poor tolerances, poor metallurgy, terrible lubrication systems with terrible filtration systems and engines that rattled the bikes to pieces were a considerable disincentive to the average commuter. The average commuter didn't want to be mopping up oil from the garage floor, they didn't want to be adjusting valves and primary drive tensions and they certainly didn't want to be rebuilding an engine every twenty to thirty thousand miles or even less in the case of Norton. Honda certainly seized the untapped market of discerning commuters that the British industry ignored. And the lack of investment had another consequence. It made the bikes more expensive than they needed to be. These machines were being assembled in the 70's in the same fashion as they had been in the 30's. Extensive hand fitting and hand finishing on an antiquated assembly line added tens of hours of labour to every bike built and just about guaranteed dismal quality control. And this was not just the fault of the motorcycle manufacturers but it was also the fault of their suppliers which merely compounded the matter. And when it was all too late what did management do? Blame the unions! Like the car industry, the British government forked out millions in a effort to save them but ultimately realised that it couldn't compensate for a 50 year absence of any significant investment. If you're British and reading this, don't feel too bad. If it wasn't for Ronald Reagan and tariffs, Harley Davidson would have most certainly ended up meeting the same fate.

[@bertmeinders6758]

Too specialsied. They did little at entry level, and what they did make was so obviously unloved at the factory that they failed to sell. The Tiger Cub was endearing but unreliable, the Bantam was last decade's design and engineering, and anything Villiers-powered was best avoided. All the companies really cared about was big fast bikes which were totally irrelevant to most riders. Too many makes competing for a small market. The nearest car industry comparison would be DeLorean. An undeveloped show car needing nnual sales of 24,000 units to make a profit in a specialised and already crowded market.

[@benwedgwood1766]

"dividends to shareholders" look how the utilities companies have followed. It's as if the country is being asset stripped.

[@larrywhited3070]

Bought a used 1959 BSA Gold Star 500cc one-lunger as a kid in 1963. Beat it (and myself) mercilessly on rides over Montana hills & gullies, but it (and I) always could be repaired. Had a Honda in Thailand in the military in 1968. Back in the states in 1969 I bought the BSA Rocket 3. Was somewhat disappointed in its power, but it never failed me. Rode it from Montana to California twice, with the final run not being roundtrip but instead being part of a longer trip to Louisiana to start an offshore diving career. Again, no mechanical problems of any consequence. On that last run from Montana to California in 1971 I encountered snowy & icy road sections in 4 states. Never once went down, but it was a tough ride. Probably came close to hypothermia--could hardly believe how much my body would start shaking when I would go into a service station to pay for gas and some heat would then hit me. (Non-stop run / no motel stays.) Oh, I later fell asleep in Texas going into a curve--woke up in time, but almost lost it. God protected this young fool many times. Have had several doctor visits and one hospital stay from wrecks--last one was when I broadsided a deer in Idaho in 1986 at 55 mph on my second KZ1000. Have to chuckle now when I see heavily bearded guys dressed up like they are auditioning for roles in "Easy Rider" and they can barely keep their Hogs upright unless they are going at least 10 mph. Yeah, the tough guys.

[@antoniocruz8083]

My father once told me a story of a 70's English newspaper article complaining about how the instructions that came with the new Mini Honda motorbike were so badly translated from Japanese to English and how the British public were so appalled to have their mother tongue so thrashed at. Then he went on to say that today you mainly see Japanese bikes, no British ones, as if the translation has anything to do with the quality of the product.

[@PK-mw7et]

There’s more to it than that. I worked with a former James motorcycle cost estimator. He told me that when Honda introduced the CD175 to the UK, James reverse engineered it. They couldn’t produce the engine for the price that Honda was selling the complete motorcycle for. A combination of UK labor rates, currency exchange rates, lack of investment and poor labor relations. The industry was forced to focus on the bigger capacity machines because there was no profit on the smaller bikes, especially when they were in competition with the Japanese manufacturers.

[@hurri7720]

Nice to see that nobody here seems to pull the too normal - they stole it from us, they came and copied everything. But then, of course, both the bike and the engine are German inventions.

[@richardreusser9327]

Love your videos ! They're little documentary jewels that make my day when a new one pops up. Can only imagine the time it takes to create such rich and detailed content. Keep up the good work.

[@maxgilmore3170]

I had a 1972 norton commando 850, it was a coo bike but it cured me of my desire to own a vintage motorcycle. I like to ride, not wrench. Stranded too many times

[@brucestrickland8561]

My first bike (of five) was a 1967 Yamaha 250. A college friend had a Honda 160. Once in a while he'd talk about how great it would be to have a bike made with "British Craftsmanship." Luckily for him, he never got to find out.

[@maxflight777]

18:20 “you cant just keep doing the same thing, even if that one thing once worked really well!” Tell Mary BARRA …she’s driving GM to bankruptcy

[@ChrisKonings]

That cliff-hanger ending - great video man, thanks for sharing!

[@jhw7319]

Funny that also the BSA Bantam is based on the German DKW RT 125 which design was received as ww2 reparations, with the Bantam as a mirror image so the gearchange was on the right side.

[@Knapweed]

Excellent video. I think the British focus on big bikes was mainly due to the greater profit margin. British manufacturing was Dickensian compared to the Japanese. In the UK, a 250 twin four-stroke cost almost as much to build as a 650 twin. They both have the same number of parts, both require the same machining, painting etc. I can remember my Triton 650 (Norton Featherbed frame married to a Tiger 110 twin) was blown into the weeds by a 350 Yamaha LC two-stroke. Hardly surp[rising as the Yamaha had ten more BHP and was 50lb lighter. The shorter wheelbase also made the Yamaha more flickable, although it didn't feel as stable.

[@routmaster38]

On UT you see many Honda Cub rebuilds and note the excelent quality of its components and not a lot fewer than a larger twin cylinder model.

[@T16MGJ]

Easily explained, the essential home UK consumer market bought four wheels as the previously impoverished post WW2 British Folks suddenly could afford small cars instead of Motor Cycles and sidecars. My biker days are over but, if this former owner of Japanese 4-Cylinder Machines and German "superior" engineering ever wanted to ride powered two wheelers again, it would be a British parallel twin from those post war years until they built houses on Meriden. Something special about the riding experience of the British Parallel twin. I took my Triumph up to the factory in Meriden in the early 1960s. The Ignition system made starting the high compression engine difficult ( Oh me knees ) unlike previous Triumphs in my ownership. Told they would need my bike for a few hours, they suggested I killed time in the City which I did. As I walked to the Bus Stop, my bike passed me flat out closely followed by a Jaguar E-Type all at speeds considered illegal nowadays. Speeds all quite legal then. Such is progress. A year later I bought an MGB. Such is progress. That bike still exists in cherished ownership. This Nation turned its back on indigenous Industry and engineering. Bad decision. Shuffling papers and pressing buttons in the city is never going to be enough to sustain this over burdened population.

[@rogerthat10-47]

"What Killed the British Motorcycle Industry" The main thing was the "Datsun 120Y", it was a car that was the same price as a "Combination" & it was reliable, add that to the cheaper, much more reliable, faster & more innovative motorcycles that were also coming from Japan & the British motorcycle & car industries were in the worst "Trouble" they had ever been in, in the 60s & early 70s the sound on a cold wet Monday morning was bonnet catches clicking, bonnets opening batteries being played with & carbs being sprayed with "EasyStart", the "Datsun 120Y" stopped all that, for once the sound on that very same morning was the sound of engines bursting into life, for the very first time "Reliability" had come to our "Green & Pleasent Land", & it became addictive, everybody wanted to have a Bike or/& a Car that actually worked, naturally these were based on the British engines they were replacing but these ones actually worked & for once the average working man could afford a Car this was never really an option before that's why bikes & 3 wheeler car's were so popular, but now you could buy a "Propper" car at a price that you could afford that had so many things that on other cars were "Extra" but on the 120Y were all as standard, it became a Phenomenon everybody & his wife had one & because bikes were predominantly for commuting they stopped buying them, if they could afford a bike as well they went for reliability once again rather than a bike that hated cold mornings, leaked like a sive & was a "Roll of the Dice" on you getting to your destination they also bought Japanese, but what if they liked the look of the Triumph & not the Honda, well Yamaha had that covered with their XS range, the engines Triumph should have built, it was without a doubt a "Ripoff" of the Triumph twin, but it worked, & boy did it work, not only that but it came in almost any size you wanted, the only thing each & every size had in common, "Reliability" even now they are still in demand because they make the best "Cafe" & "StreetTrackers" out there, as for the British motorcycle industry now, it almost totally consists of fourine companies that have bought the name but not the "Heritage" banging out any old Shite just to make a quid out of a name that used to be something, but sadly it's not anymore.

[@fearsomename4517]

It took me well over five years to restore a '50 Triumph Thunderbird. I used nothing but OEM and Nos parts. Except for the exhaust and paint it was all original, even had the original air pump. I miss that motorcycle more than any other, including my '57 Harley Pan and my '39 Harley Knucklehead. Love this channel. I've been into vintage bike since '78.

[@MrAvant123]

Very good and fair analysis. I owned both CB750 and Triumph Bonneville and putting emotions aside, the Honda was a brilliant machine in every area smooth, easy staring much faster much more user friendly and a general joy to own. I remember in the late 70's the only comeback anyone had for pro Triumph was 'the frame is stiffer'.

[@brucekamps6970]

I've had both also. I still have the Honda, was glad to see the Triumph go. It shook so badly that things kept coming off it at speed, exhaust pipes, air cleaners. One time going down the highway I noticed the pitch of the motor change. I looked down to find my boot oil soaked, while the cylinders were going up and down. The nuts holding them on had all come loose. That, right there, is what caused the demise of the British motor cycle industry.

[@jamesexploringonline872]

Enjoy your content, sad how this one cut off halfway into conversation

[@baconsword6069]

I wonder if the change in the laws regarding riding motorcycles played a part in killing the industry as well. Now in the UK it's pretty difficult and expensive to get a license. Even for 50cc scooters you need to take the compulsory basic training (CBT), which can almost cost £200 now and you have to do it every 2 years if you don't get your A1/mod1 license in that time.

[@mtkoslowski]

Interesting handle. Are you related to the ‘Pork Sword?’

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

Bro. I live in Bulgaria. It costs a minimum of 300-350 pounds (equivalent) to get a license, and our salaries are about 600 pounds at average.

[@quickturn66]

@@TheTeodorsoldierabvb 600 a week ?

[@TheTeodorsoldierabvb]

@@quickturn66 600 a month my man.

[@quickturn66]

@@TheTeodorsoldierabvb is that enough to live on . Is that about 1000 usd ?

[@formerparatrooper]

I had both a BSA and a Triumph in Australia in the early 70s. Both were bone shakers and loose parts falling off all the time. When I got back to the US in 72 I got a Harley Hawg and toured all around the globe back to Australia. It was in the AMF days and the truth is that it was less a machine than what Harley builds now, but for the time it was great. Sold it in Brisbane to take a job in Africa, never got back to OZ. Our last machine was another AMF Hawg in 1975 touring all the Civil War and national parks we could find in the US. When we sold it we were done. I am now 82 and only now and then do I think I might still like one.

[@markiesmith4537]

True that the Honda CB750 was the stake through the British Industry's heart but there were other Japanese motorcycles that predicted their dire future even earlier. The Suzuki T20 "Super Six" 250cc two stroke was a sensation when it first came to the UK. Many Rockers on Triumph Bonnevilles and BSA Super Rockets were amazed to be out-raced on the roads by it . BSA bought one in 1966 and took it apart to see if they could re-create the engineering...only to find there was no way they could produce a bike that was anything like it for it's quality and price - the engineers recommended that BSA stop producing bikes under 500cc and concentrate on the bigger bikes where there was no Japanese competition - for the time being!

[@peterdavy6110]

I agree. If anything the T20 was the real killer as far as the British motorcycle industry was concerned not the CB750. That's my view anyway.

[@funhog24]

I've been riding motorcycles since 1964, and have had 40-50 bikes,. I grew up with what your video shows. Pretty spot on and great footage. Bravo! Oh, and I'll subscribe....

[@troll2637]

Damn. 40-50 bikes? Consumerism at its finest. No offense tho.

[@jamesbriers696]

During the 50's BSA's chairman was the financier Sir Bernhard Docker. He viewed expenditure on R&D as too risky and instead he had the company invest it's profits in British Government bonds! So when they where successful they were not re-investing in their products or creating new ones. Hence their lack of competitiveness against the Italians and the Japanese.

[@alandavies55]

Docker was a complete fraud and his wife was a disgusting snob, all either of them was ever good at was self promotion.

[@FirstnameLastname-xq4rp]

I used to ride a Honda Super Cub delivering mail, and I totally understand why they're so popular. They're easy to ride, inviting to new riders, faster than a moped, easy to service, capable of carrying some cargo if you have panniers, and still very efficient. I went down once or twice, and because of the step-through frame design, my leg didn't get pinned between the bike and the pavement. They're also perfect for motogiro if you're into that.

[@chrismoody1342]

Bart your videos a well worth watching, well produced, edited and narrated. I can explain all of the ins and outs of British industry but they fell victim to their own success and fell into complacency. Its true of the British automotive industry and to some extent aeronautics. A malaise set in company wide that lead to their decline and demise. I say look out Harley Davidson, keep cranking out the same old stuff, a little shinier and not much else and your gonna be gone too. Lead, follow or get out of the way.

[@lanhet]

For a very interesting read, I suggest Bert Hopwood's "Whatever Happened to the British Motorcycle Industry". In a nutshell, a fine mixture or complacency, arrogance, incompetence and total lack of foresight.

[@brockett]

Manufacturing cost were far higher in the UK. Due to lack of investment and high wage demands. One manufacturer looked at the Honda cub and found it would cost at least twice as much to make in the UK. German, Japanese and to some degree the Italian governments poured huge sums of money into all sections of manufacturing industries. Another factor is a general lack of product knowledge at executive and board level Also very poor skill and knowledge level of government departments (same now) public schools do not turn out many engineers. National schools were not providing the education that engineers require and still don't. And then the cost of small cars became very similar to the classic UK big bike.

[@hurri7720]

Only an insane society accepts that state financed education falls behind private financed schools. It's the proof of a class society if it happens. I wonder if you Brits will ever get it, and if you did, would you ever do anything about it. Or will you just hope that one day you, or your kids, will enter the upper class. (Eton has produced twenty British prime ministers, is that because of superior education, or just the class system.)

[@dennisgreene7164]

Excellent review and analysis. When I was a kid in the late 1960s, the bikes were already either Italian or Japanese. Kawasaki's were extremely impressive but so were bikes like Gileras. I don't know anyone who had a British bike by that point.

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

Like the British car industry, industrial disputes also played a big factor in later years. These disruptions in manufacturing hurt their revenue so that they didn't have the money to innovate & compete in the later years. The sad fact is that we're seeing a similar situation form Japan today. None of the big 4 are innovating like they did through the 80's, 90's & into the early 2000's. Kawasaki are just throwing the same engine into as many bike styles as they can, just look at their 649cc twin from the 06' ER-6F & ER-6N as an example. 16 years later you can now find the same engine in the Ninja 650, Z650, Versys 650, Vulcan S cruiser (wtf?) & Z650RS Retro Sport. Yamaha are doing a similar thing with a smaller range of bikes. Suzuki's range is anemic & most of their lineup is just minor upgrades to what was available at the turn of the century. And Honda seem to have just given up at this stage. India seems to be where the innovation is likely to come from moving forward, with Royal Enfield finally moving on from the 1950's with a motivated leader at the helm, and KTM/Husqvarna with exciting bikes across a range of displacements, as well as redefining what a motorcycle should look like with the Vitpilen & Svartpilen range.

[@Jon-zj2nj]

Royal Enfield are manufacturers of genuine antique and reproduction antique motorcycles. I realise that they are popular, I get that, but I can’t think of a worse example of an “innovative” motorcycle manufacturer. At least Triumph can built competitive and modern bikes as well and proved their credentials there, long before building their own retros.

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

@@Jon-zj2nj You need to read my comment again. I didn't say that Royal Enfield are innovative, I said it was where innovation was likely to come from. They've already modernised their 650 twins & are releasing a number of new bikes over the next year. Their starting point may be from another era, but they are one of a few companies that are looking to the future & improving their range with the modern motorcyclist in mind. Triumph, on the other hand, has no heritage. They're an old badge that has been dusted off & given a new lease of life. Out of the gate they made some great modern bikes, and their triples offered the benefits of both twins & inline 4's, but they had no DNA from what had come before. They could have been called any name & have been almost as successful. And they haven't really innovated since they released their range of modern classics. My point is that among a sea of stagnation that major motorcycle manufacturers are currently in, only Royal Enfield & KTM/Husqvarna seem to be doing things to bring out new models & make major improvements in their range. Harley Davidson are looking promising with the Pan America, but their management's strong attachment to their history & heritage seems to be holding them back.

[@Jon-zj2nj]

@@ADingoTookMyDasco I regret that I can not agree with you from the moment that you said “Triumph, on the other hand, have no heritage”. I had to read that three times to make sure that I hadn’t misread what you said.

[@ADingoTookMyDasco]

@@Jon-zj2nj Quick history lesson. Triumph Motor, the company with all the history dating back to 1885, closed in 1983 & was purchased by a property developer, who turned the factory into a housing development. Triumph Motorcycles Limited started in 1990, manufacturing a new range of motorcycles to be sold under the Triumph badge. Just like Bugatti, someone took a name badge with a long heritage & name recognition and released an entirely new vehicle. No one would argue that the Veyron has any DNA that links it directly with any previous Bugatti's, or that the heritage of the company is being carried on by it. The same thing is true for the first Daytona & Trophy released in 1990. The first of the modern classic Triumph's weren't released until 2001, and were a response to customer demand & the early sales success of the Kawasaki W650, which was released in 1999. Triumph make great motorcycles and have carved out a 30+ year history of their own, but, like BSA & Norton, it's a modern attempt at reviving a brand that died out due to the Japanese motorcycle. Triumph Motorcycles Limited success came from doing what the Japanese did to Triumph Motor. They looked at the best selling bikes of the day & released a sport bike & sport tourer that could compete with the popular Japanese offerings. "Heritage" wasn't a consideration until 10 years later when they thought that they could make money from it.

[@Jon-zj2nj]

@@ADingoTookMyDasco Please allow me to fill in the gaps in your “history lesson” and correct one or two errors: John Bloor purchased all IP rights of Triumph in 1983, along with their then current Bonneville replacement project, the “Pheonix” (later renamed “Diana”), liquid cooled, parallel twin and he took on several of the Merden staff as well. He licensed Les Harris, to continue Bonneville production, until 1988 in Devon. John Bloor did not buy the site. He continued to develop the Diana project, from 1983, for a further 6 months or so, until he found that it was too badly flawed and that he needed to start from scratch. The company had their T300 series under continuous development from that point onwards. The first series production started at Hinckley in 1989/90, with models on sale from 1990. Their retro range started in around 1994, not 2001, with the launch of the Thunderbird triple (based on the T300 design). I even know one member of staff, who trained and worked at Meriden, that works at Hinckley to this day! Royal Enfield, on the other hand, went bust in 1973. Enfield India, a different company, continued to manufacture the, genuine antique, Enfield under the name “Enfield”, aided by India’s highly protectionalist trading laws. Enfield would not gain the rights to the name “Royal” Enfield for over 20 years. A problem that gets glossed over in their claim that “Royal Enfield has been in continuous production since 1901”. Royal Enfield, to this day, continue to manufacture ancient curiousities and newer bikes, within their own highly protected Indian market and have the dubious honour of building the only current retro/modern bike that has a worse power to weight ratio than its 1960’s predecessor.

[@astro61362]

Man, this is an awesome channel! Great video as usual!

[@tomrawlinson1177]

I see two things missing from this video, along with a lesser third factor. Most important was the thoroughly bad way that the management treated the workers in all of British industry - they were expected to work and eat and live in filth. This led to a rigid wall separating shopfloor and design workers. And another rigid wall between design and management. The Japanese were always listening to suggestions by the workers, making them feel much better about their jobs and instantly making them much more attentive to quality. This factor may even help to explain why British engines leaked, filth never seen as an engineering issue! Secondly, the Japanese must have been making huge strides in metallurgy which were ignored in the UK. We all know that Japanese aluminium castings didn't distort and spring leaks - but better steels were also being used, enabling much higher speeds while internal components no longer wore out the same way, valves no longer burned out. Sometimes the designs were more complex and the components were smaller so they wore out after the same mileage - but they did it predictably. Metallurgy must surely have improved all Japanese fixings. Rattling mudguards cost the British their reputation as well. Lastly, the British had once been leaders in combustion technology and we seemed to have lost our way - maybe because we couldn't make our engines rev so fast. There were none of the very high-performance two-stroke engines that the Germans had pioneered and the Japanese had mastered.

[@davidjohn64]

I had a very unfortunate experience at a tender age , just 17 and a engineering apprentice . I bought a matchless 250 cc . I was constantly fed the crap british engineering was the best .... Total crap ...

[@spamdump4459]

Interesting. I was going to comment on how the labor situation in UK contributed to the collapse. But from the other side. It was practically impossible to change anything without prompting a strike that would shut down the factory. Try to introduce better tooling--strike, because you're trying to put people out of work. Try to introduce quality processes--strike because you're demanding too much, you need to pay more for that. Not to mention the strike because the shop steward's wife wouldn't give him any the night before. NOT excusing the bone headed complaceny of management, but labor bears a lot of responsibility for collapse of UK car and bike industry.

[@tomrawlinson1177]

@@spamdump4459 - everything I speak of was directly and solely the responsibility of the management. What you speak of must, essentially, be the same. Directly and solely the responsibility of the management.

[@chasleask8533]

@@tomrawlinson1177 I 'temped ' at a BSA factory somewhere in South London in the early '70's . Everything , including the workforce was covered in black grease . When I went into the bait cabin all you could see was a mass of white eyeballs shining out of the darkness . It was like a Dickensian nightmare .

[@tomrawlinson1177]

@@chasleask8533 Tragic business. And I fail to understand why.

[@BreezyE-d3n]

I'm 44, my great grandfather on my father's side was chief engineer for one of the top motorcycle manufactures in the UK, I think it was Norton but to my shame I'm not too sure, this must have been prewar. Apparently he invented bits and bobs which are still used today. He was in charge of pro racing, so if they won, he'd tell his wife he wouldn't be home till the next day because they'd be out all night celebrating. My grandfather on my mother's side was an engineer who worked for Raleigh bikes and designed the undercarriage of the de Havilland Mosquito, of which Hermann Goring said something along the lines of "if I had 1 Mosquito for every 10 of my bombers the battle of Britain would be over in a week." Something I take great family pride in. Personally, I only ever had a Yamaha 125cc when I was a teenager growing up in London, I loved that bike. My sister's husband was a 1000cc bike and fighting kind of guy... he had 9 friends killed in a crash and spent a year in hospital getting his shoulder reconstructed. I never became an engineer myself, maybe I missed my calling. I do think motorbikes are death traps. I've known 2 people quite well who died young crashing on them. Now, in my 40's living in Japan, I'm thinking about buying a Kawasaki Zephyr 750... beautiful machines.

[@VinayKumar-db4qz]

I think its more to do with the work ethics and attitude, I worked with many British people for over ten years and what I have noticed is that they are very arrogant, and most of the time they think of going to the bar and getting drunk or getting laid. They were never serious about work. But the Japanese are very humble, hardworking, disciplined and committed, hence it shows in the products they manufacture.

[@davidshattock9522]

I walked to the local shop one day to buy some beers and food ,outside shop was a Honda vtwin fire storm. And laying on the road giving the honda a very thorough examination was a little old bloke when the bike owner came out of shop and asked him what he was doing he replied that he worked years before at the old Matchless factory as a tester many years before .and was looking at his bike to see if it could be improved and proudly tpld.owner of the bike that in his opinion it couldn't be improved at all bike owner smiled and rode away ,the old bike factory was less than th ree miles away.i thought how odd

[@geneclarke2205]

Harley Davidson in the early 1960s, produced a line of smaller bikes that were imported Italian Aermacchi motorcycles rebranded as Harleys. In the AMF years, these were produced until 1978, when the Italian motorcycle company was sold to Cagiva. Strategically Harley was on the right track but the bikes were of poor quality and reliability.

[@LesSharp]

I remember those. Awful things compared the two-stroke trail bikes the Japanese were building at the time. AMF should have stuck to bowling alley equipment.

[@tamar5261]

I think one of the problems was the triumph twin was designed in the 1930s and it was still basically the same engine in the 1970s. They stood no chance against the Japanese.

[@grahamt33]

That "best selling" motorcycle, the Bantam, was actually a GERMAN design acquired by the British as part of War reparations..

[@m2menuiserie540]

You're right. It was a DKW. But the Brits managed to use 6 different machine screw types on the thing. A BSA ex-Post Office Bantam was my first bike (of 42). And the last BSA.

[@replevideo6096]

My father was a motorcycle mechanic working for a main dealer. Almost every new bike they sold leaked oil. My father would strip the engine down and scrape the crankcases flat so they no longer leaked for every customer who complained and all free of charge. They felt obliged to do this to keep their customers coming back, but ultimately they survived by becoming Honda main dealers. Honda avoided the problem by splitting crankcases horizontally and employing accurate casting machines as used by Rolls Royce.

[@sth50100]

Its disappointing that you haven’t mentioned / recognized Britten (NZ) motorcycles for innovation and a point of difference to what everyone else was doing although being a racing bike designed to beat Ducati etc. in the early 1990s a 1000çc V twin water cooled quad cam 4 valve 300lb 138KG wet weight. 166hp @ 11800rpm with programmable electronic engine management. The extensive use of carbon Fibre and the engine / trans being part of the frame / structure made it more light weight than anything else. It was basically hand-built in John Brittens shed at his home Christchsurch NZ including casting the engine and carbon Fibre wheels. Only 10 were built. It was remarkable that an individual and friends with limited financial resources could build an innovative lightweight bike that was able to beat Ducati etc on the international stage. It had varied success due to reliability issues but has broken some speed records. This bike made Harleys and British bikes dinosaurs of the 50s 60s and 70s cb Hondas. Major manufacturers have all made the same mistake of churning out the same old what they know works without innovating. You only have to look at the failed British car industry and failing American car industry, with Government bail outs It's a shame that they didn't get any financial support from any major player to continue. For innovation need to look at F1 with carbon Fibre use 1000hp from a 1.6 V6 hybrid turbo still evolving ie Braking /acceleration a rough speed difference of 30 seconds a lap quicker than a Nascar on proper multi turn F1 race track.

[@paulblouin6955]

I read that the Britten engine was designed around the ports. It started with the flow characteristics, which sounds brilliant.

[@flybobbie1449]

College tutor back in 80's said Japan took the best British lathe, improved it's design with a solid bed and more robust chuck head, etc. Could then produce more accurately and consistent products. Britain was still using machines made before WW2 possibly even the Great War. Just no investment, i saw it in the forging industry.

[@freewheeler8924]

There's a similar situation in the electric guitar industry. Fender and Gibson keep on making guitars based on 1950's designs as if that was the apex of guitar engineering. And they charge a premium for their inferior guitars and numberless reissues of out-dated "classics". In their favor though, there are a lot of idiots willing to part with their cash.

[@StratfordWingRider]

Under 30k subs? This feels criminal when the channel is so well done.

[@juliandrake7862]

The primary reason for the failure of the British motorcycle industry was the Japanese governments mercantilist polices aimed at a handful corporate Keiretsu dominating world markets. The British government fascination lay with propagating unproductive popular culture, disastrous labour relations, casino capitalism and third world migration. Britain’s innovative engineers, productive workers and visionary managers would from the 1960’s be fighting not only a determined Asian foe with a militantly supportive government, a much larger protected domestic market, a more competitive currency and a culturally reinforced Japanese salary man’s work ethic, they would also be fighting elite elements within their own country who had decided Britain’s fate lay with the post industrial services economy. Manufacturing was surplus to requirements. Britain was a signatory to the 1975 Lima Declaration who’s stated purpose we to relocate manufacturing from the developed world, of whom Britain was the most renowned, to the developing world of whom Japan was the first beneficiary. Remember, Japan has been a vassal state of the USA and Britain since surrendering in 1945 - yet it was given a free hand to destroy both countries car, motorcycle, outboard, electronic and machine tool industries. Japan’s success could have been contained at any time by restricting its access to markets, imported commodities, patents and foreign exchange. So forgot this nonsense about motors leaking oil, lack of kick start or shoddy Lucas electrics failing to keep up with the brilliant Japanese - these are mere symptoms of plan well underway. The same movement has in recent decades seen Japan subsequently lose its manufacturing to Korea, Taiwan and the China. Soon enough the great game will move onto India.

[@kevatut23]

I've had 37 bikes at last count. But nothing ever really satisfied me more than my 75 Norton 850 commando. Bought it new when the dealer went out of biz. $1795 if I recall. It was the most beautiful site next to my other bikes. Loved it.

[@zzebowa]

And yet today, Triumph make some of the best bikes, and the retro styling is very popular.

[@LesSharp]

Sure, but could you have sold an updated version of a 1900s design in 1955? I don't think so. The lads bought the fastest thing they could get their hands on, and never mind the practicality. There was no starry-eyed nostalgia in those days. Kids modified street bikes to look like the race bikes of the time, not the past.

[@crazyhorse1771]

Unfortunately, 60,000 of the 65,000 bikes produced each year are produced in its factory in Thailand. Only the specialist custom bikes are still made in the UK.

[@zzebowa]

@@crazyhorse1771 Yet they are still expensive!

[@zzebowa]

@@LesSharp Yeah, but, the British Motorbike industry ddint die completely, and in fact has come back, and is now a big player. especially when you think of Enfield, for 70 years they hid in India, and have now come back with one of the best selling bikes ever. OK, made in India, but British at its core.

[@crazyhorse1771]

@@zzebowa That is true, but it is an iconic brand with a rich heritage, and that is what people pay for, in addition of course to that fact they are great motorcycles!

[@johnconlon9652]

Very good presentation, especially well-spoken. A teenager in the 60s, I loved Bantams. 175cc , perfection. War reparation from DKW I think. (Sorry, I may have missed this in your filum). In 1979, I bought a Beamer R100RS, planning to ride to Australia, using the occasional ferry, ( for smart-arse commentators).The demise of the motorcycle industry in the UK was not unexpected. Abysmal management, poor industrial relations. Awful to observe. Thanks to this young Yank (no offence intended).

[@crawdadandtheboilers]

Having owned a Triumph car, I can agree that reliability was what really killed not only the motorcycle industry, but the British auto industry, at least in the U.S. Mine was a 1979 Spitfire, and while it was simple to work on, the electronics was a weak point. Here's the thing...this was in 1995. I grew up in a family of shade-tree mechanics. I could replace an entire brake system, but no one around me could give me any ideas on how to work on electronics. And again, it was 1995. I had to order parts from a British catalogue, and they were expensive. Now, styling was great. It looked awesome. Performance was weak, but it was never supposed to be a race car, just a fun 2-seater to whip around back roads with the top down, and it was perfect for that. And fuel economy was ridiculous. I drove 30 minutes to work and back, 30 minutes to the gym and back, all week on a tank of gas. Friday night, I wanted to make sure I had a full tank (the gas gauge didn't work because...British electronics). I gave my friend a $10 dollar bill, and ended up having to send him back for change because I only used about 5 gallons of gas that week. But it didn't take long after the gas gauge died, for the speedometer to die, the tach to go down, and lastly, the lights to stop working. And that's when I had to sell it.

[@jarhead6153]

Dr W. Edward Demming is why the Japanese motorcycles eventually overtook the British and pretty much everyone else. He taught the Japanese quality control. Which to this day is why the products produced in Japan have pretty much overtaken the whole world in many industries…auto, motorcycle, electronics etc. Add this as one of the main reasons on top of all of the other good posts here…

[@camgere]

True. American companies also had access to Deming and Shewhart. The Japanese were too poor to allow waste. They eliminated all forms of waste. Americans just wanted to "make the numbers". Waste was a forgivable cost of doing business. The Japanese knew that they were making interchangeable parts by a standard process. A bad part demanded a fix to the parts, people or process. They felt that everything that they did could be improved. American managers did the math: they were in big trouble if they changed something and it failed, they were in little trouble if they did things the way they always did them. It takes huge guts to improve a system that is working OK.

[@paulblouin6955]

@@camgere Gosh I hated taking those classes and the boring reading. I won't say where I was working, but I assure you it was window dressing. They did not embrace or apply the principals, but they wanted feedback instantly on what "Quick Wins" the magic beans were producing. We are hurting today from the "Just in Time" component delivery, although outsourcing everything wasn't really part of it as well as I remember.

[@TheLoathsomeCowboy]

Just a comment on the Norton Commando - I bought one new (black 750 Roadster)back in late ‘71. It was super-sexy, went well, handled great, but as a daily I used to find myself wishing I’d bought the new Honda 500. Where do I start? The Norton’s side stand fell off before I’d got home from the showroom. The exposed air cleaner used to get soaked in the rain and bring the bike to a sputtering stop. The front drum brake would fill up with water and leave you trying to stop on a wet road with just the back brake. After twenty miles the seat felt like a piece of lightly padded 2x4. It used to eat clutch cables, to the point that I always carried a spare. And yes, it leaked oil. Through the hills on a sunny afternoon, it was magic.

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

I think it was 1970, down at the local bike shop, I tried pulling the clutch on a Commando. Talk about heavy, I could get it in but the thought of doing it 2 or 3 times in a row was too much. A friend had one, I once came across him and a few others wandering about in long grass at the side of the road. What's up? The vibrations of the Commando had unscrewed the top of the Amal carb and the slide had popped out! They found it and I stayed happy with a CB750.

[@CathodeRayTube99]

Yep, mine did all of those things too.

[@jala6707]

Thanks for another great video!! It would be very nice to make a video about the future of motorcycling. There are many possible futures, but so far it looks a bit foggy. What is clear is that the current established manufacturers are a bit lost regarding the direction they should go and invest in. Electric vs ICE, expensive playthings vs affordable main transport-vehicles, how to make it safer, how to get young people interested in motorcycles, retro models that sell well vs daring new designs that may not sell at all, etc etc. Companies in Japan, Europe and USA seem to wait & see what all the new (and a few old) companies in China and India can come up with. The electric engine has by far the biggest potential: it allows small start-ups to design and assemble a good-looking motorcycle. It has much less parts, does not need as much maintenance and is therefore much less dependent on dealer networks. So in theory, this should result in many different companies that produce many different styles & models of electric motorcycles. Of course, only IF (!!!) there is a large enough market for electric motorcycles ...

[@yuglesstube]

At around 4.40 the photo is of a Vincent HRD. Standing behind it is Phil Irving. Rich Mixture and Black Smoke were books written by Phil. Excellent reads.

[@nhancao4790]

Its kinda eerie how HD is going the way of classic British motorcycle brands by their practiced ignorance of small & affordable bikes. With the current trajectory, I could foresee a future where HD as a life-style company would exist, but HD as a motorcycle maker would go extinct.

[@hisdadjames4876]

Very wise and maybe prescient observation. Thx.

[@justincase4892]

At this point, Harley-Davidson is a merchandise company, selling T-shirts and keychains, and in their spare time build a few poor quality bikes. Harley-Davidson will be following suit of the British companies very shortly.

[@hurri7720]

@@justincase4892 , no I don't think so, they have managed to create a status around the name. They produced 180.000 units in 2020 and employ 5000 and make a profit in a rather large market. No reason at all to compare to any British company.