the age-gap romantic relationship complex in shoujo anime

[@itsbasicboi]

Hey besties, I totally forgot to talk about CardCaptor Sakura and Fruits Basket, my apologies. Noralities made a fantastic video dissecting Rika's relationship with her teacher. I wanna reiterate that this video is NOT to demonize shoujo anime; I just wanted to talk about the different portrayals of age gap relationships. I definitely should have worded my arguments better, but hey, this was one of my first video essays; what do you expect lol. Noralities video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oofOhHV8q7Kegrc

[@hannahv7008]

I conseil you to reach more about the japan culture and way of thincking and you will see that a lot of things are directly fron japan society

[@mystique9130]

In brother's conflict, I only root for Yuusuke cause he's only 1 years older than Emma and loved her even before they became step siblings to which he's still pissed off about. Also he's much more respectful of her personal boundaries and often pick fights with those who made her uncomfortable, especially Fuuto, that shady b*******.

[@Prettypoisonswitch]

Don't forget 90's Dub Sailor Moon! Serena is 14 and Darian is at least over 18 !! The closest I remember them mentioning in I believe season 1 was that he left the orphanage at 18 but never mentioned how long ago that was.

[@jlouisa]

This was something I noticed in most of the works done by Clamp. Even when I was younger, I thought it was odd but didn't understand what was going on. I also have to mention the Inuyasha sequel that recently came out and just what the creater felt Sesshomaru need to be a part of with Rin. This was so uncomfortable to me considering how he was portrayed in the previous series and I refuse to watch it on these grounds.

[@tiffanypicazo6599]

Super Lovers, 🤢

[@toothian9237]

THANK YOU for mentioning Brothers Conflict. It made me so uncomfortable the first time I watched it because Ema keeps mentioning how she's always wanted a huge family and brothers, so for all of her older step brothers to actively pursue her and even force themselves on her is not only disgusting but also saddening. The least problematic brother is Yusuke since he's the same age as her and never made her uncomfortable despite liking her too (to be fair, though, he liked her before they became siblings, so it's more of an unfortunate case for him lol). Anyway, loved the video, especially your portion on Nana.

[@itsbasicboi]

Thank you so much! Ema’s older brothers were…something else 😨

[@IzaiahKelly]

Yeeeeeah I’m a brothers conflict fan myself and 100% understand how their actions are creepy, (let’s face it there’s no way you can justify kaname saying he’d kiss her on their first meeting.) this is even taking into consideration the fact that Emma is adopted by her father , which depending on your level of comfort can really just seem like a cop out to ship her with any of the brothers . this is why with the anime/manga and games i honestly think Natsume and Yusuke are my favorite brothers . Their relationships with her are more based on knowing her as a person prior to the whole sister thing and even then they kinda grow with her instead of growing because of her . Hikaru ( I tend to use they them pronouns for them cause they really don’t seem to care about gender at all) does their own thing and isn’t really there and the bath scene in the ova is …. Interesting, Louis , Ukyo and masaomi I adore but they are more My type of guy then Ema’s I guess , Iori … if you know you know , wataru is a child and only looks at Emma like a big sister , Futo is trash and honestly I tend to forget Tsubaki , Azusa and Subaru cause I never really got attached to their characters whatsoever.

[@Mercy.Beloved]

Same here. I watched it when I was younger and I had no idea it was that bad until I looked back on it. They’re siblings. Like, bruh.

[@AsclepiusHoe]

Yusuke and Iori were the only sensible human beings.

[@kazoo6953]

The issue is that BroCon is originally a game. Ema’s personality is unimportant and bland as the player should be able to place themselves into Ema’s place easily. I have played the game and obviously while playing the game the weird aspects of the anime aren’t there as you go route by route with the character you want to get with. Honestly I don’t think anime like BroCon should be held up to any moral standard as they are basically romance pron for lonely women. People just want to see harem/reverse harem anime so they can have different attractive characters that have different personalities and looks.

[@HellsingSora]

NANA WAS ON PURPOSE IN ORDER TO SHOW HOW CHILDREN ARE EASILY USED AND ABUSED! Especially Hachi with that older guy. It's something that really happens and NANA made it clear it was wrong and that Hachi was just played. And about Shin it shows how children can get lost without parental figures and force themselves to become "adults" sooner. NANA was WARNING about these cases and not romanticizing it or glorifying it.

[@ladynoluck]

They said as much in the video

[@euneunn2935]

but ai yazawa portraits abusive behaviour as a normal part in a relationship in all of her works?

[@maddieatkinson1527]

@@euneunn2935 yazawa portrays incredibly realistic relationships, that does not mean shes condoning it. just because she does not spoon feed the messages or dramaticize them to an unrealistic point does not mean they are any less of cautionary tales.

[@euneunn2935]

@@maddieatkinson1527 yeah I agree, but she doesn’t seem to be against it either. Think about Miwako’s relationship, their first sexual experience was forced. But it’s talked as a problem to overcome rather than a crime. Also my Nana obsessed friend told me she read in an Interview that Takumi was Yazawa’s favorite character. I con go on but yeah, “realistic” is the right word. Same way women in my family in rural areas think it’s okay for men to beat up their wifes. They neither think about forced-love-making as a crime if it’s their parter. Even my mom doesn’t think it’s a crime, just something that happens me cause “men”. Now think of Japan’s situation for women, ESPECIALLY over 20 years ago. If in this side of the world we didn’t change our perspective until it started being debated on social media like 8? years ago. I haven’t seen a single anime or manga who treats these toxic power dynamics in a negative way, but I can give you at least of dozen examples of those who romanticize (even works that are created for children). Don’t get me wrong I do think that her works at least opens the debate. But nobody seems to care about the social perspective of the creator. And you can’t understand it with today’s moral standards. Even in the fandom nobody truly hated reira or takumi 10 years ago, in the Japanese part as far I know they don’t do either today.

[@maddieatkinson1527]

@@euneunn2935 yeah i definitely see your point. they come off as cautionary tales to me but you are right in the sense that although her works reflect reality, we dont know her intentions behind a lot of what she portrays. on a side note - if you want an anime that deconstructs toxic power dynamics and patriarchal abuse you should check out revolutionary girl utena. its one of the few ive seen that truly deconstructs the power dynamics you're referring to

[@ladynoluck]

Hurts my soul that Fruits Basket, a series that covers abuse and trauma so thoroughly and well, contains multiple young girl and adult man relationships and presents them as acceptable and without issue. Most worryingly, it’s usually with the girls who had traumatic pasts/upbringings (aka the more “mature” ones) and includes one relationship between a middle schooler (age 14) and her student teacher (age ~22).

[@daphnedaphn3]

True. I rly didn't like Kureno and Arisa bcs of their age gap and I honestly wish arisa was a lesbian instead

[@wendysu4918]

I can’t believe everyone shipped Tohru’s parents in the movie like…the mom was just a minor 😟

[@wendysu4918]

@@caelestii I bet if the dad was just some old or ugly ass person, the anime would have received a lot of backlash 💀

[@_Galahad]

can you explain me about it? I don't know much about this anime. When it happens? And with which characters?

[@ladynoluck]

@@_Galahad they moved the teacher-student relationship (the main character’s parents’ backstory) to a separate movie, so it’s not in the anime series itself. The series still includes a relationship between the main character’s best friend (16-18yo high school student with traumatic/violent past) and someone who is around 8 years older and an adult when they meet. Her other friend also (jokingly?) flirts with someone in his 30s/40s. Another relationship that is very important to the series and thus very spoiler heavy (so I can’t specify the characters) is often also discussed as being questionable since they are at least 8 years apart and he was obsessively in love with her since she was a child and he was a teenager (and it’s implied that it was earlier, too). The author has retconned/clarified over the years that none of these relationships got physical until the younger girl was at least 18, but at least 2 of the romantic relationships began before then (even one marriage). Edit: As for when, most of this pops up in just seasons 2 and 3 if I remember right, but it’s spread out, so you can’t easily pinpoint specific episodes to skip it.

[@bluubandette8871]

Sure its natural for kids to crush on the teachers but honestly why did they push it further?

[@falconeshield]

Because CLAMP are weiiiird

[@liandoaethend2403]

Yeah...

[@CatsEverywhere33]

Me: i can very agree (i had a crush on my english teacher i think he never knew)

[@felipe8511]

its not like these things doesnt happen in real life either

[@ligeiasiren4290]

It's an extremely normal fantasy for children. However, it should not be normalized in the way Shoujo anime/manga does it. It basically tells children that is ok to be groomed.

[@Nutmeg1993]

When it comes to Kodocha, it’s the one instance of this topic that doesn’t put a terrible taste in my mouth. They make it apparent very early on that Rei thinks of Sana as a daughter figure and only goes along with it when she says he is her boyfriend because he wants her to be happy. Rei feels in debt to Sana because she gave him a place to live when he was homeless. The one thing that Rei was really at fault with was going along with Sana’s boyfriend fantasy because it ended up hurting her later on. Thankfully Rei felt great remorse for the errors in his ways and they resumed their father/daughter like relationship and Rei continued to be Sana’s manager. Kodocha handles relationships very well in my option 😃

[@itsbasicboi]

They absolutely did, honestly it is one of the best portrayals of age gap relationships that I’ve seen in anime.

[@coopigeon619]

Wow, this anime series sounds really good. I might give it a watch. 🌸

[@henloworld514]

agreed! I love kodocha so much ❤

[@mikuforlife1929]

@@coopigeon619 Pls do this show is so underrated you won’t regret watching it ❤

[@curry1412]

@@coopigeon619 The Manga is also really good. It's kinda different to the anime but it is still really good.

[@nyoon690]

I think sailor moon is also a hood example. I really loved it but usagi being 14 snd mamoru like a college freshman was so weird

[@vioveo7440]

Mamoru was a high school student when they first met. He didn't start college until until Usagi was a highschool freshman, which is 10th grade, or around 15 in Japan. So, they're actually only 2-3 years apart in age.

[@CarolaTesla]

@@vioveo7440 is still weird, in the manga they were closer in age. Idk why in the first anime they made him older s:

[@graxis1993]

@@alize0623 unbelievable my goodness I felt weirded out in their relationship good thing someone told their age gap. PS I still prefer haruka and michiru's relationship because it's my favorite.

[@kittychobit]

In the manga Serena was in junior high school and mamoru was in high school, it was the anime that aged him up to college age.

[@retrorewind844]

As a young adult now, I realize how uncomfortable their relationship is. 😬😬😬

[@feralcatgirl2169]

This is a problem not only in Japanese animanga but also in western movies/dramas/books, esp aimed at girls and women. I can't escape from it and I hate seeing it everywhere. I really hope this changes soon

[@raisyrosye7656]

For real, I'm a sixteen-year-old girl and although I've got a part-time job, I'm still just an inexperienced youngster.

[@miguelorozco4445]

It wont change Women writers like stories like that.

[@janetestherina7169]

fucking pretty little liars man

[@janetestherina7169]

@@miguelorozco4445 it will change, as long as more writers acknowledge how disgusting and unhealthy it is

[@bituinl]

Don’t forget the guys, because eh it’s not good either. /lh

[@paolalapi6367]

Nana is for adults not for teenagers, And they speak about that toxic relationship and the bad decisions, It is an anime to reflect the bad, it does not talk about the fact that none of the behaviors are good

[@PeyloBeauty]

i watched nana when I was so much younger and yes.. it def is an adult anime. like there is nothing directed towards a younger audience. and I felt that. like to this day I will never forget about it. I still was able to appreciate a good anime. you know how every anime has their own vibe? we all know what I mean. and the vibe from nana is something that I can't compare to something else.

[@ettaetta439]

Yep, it's not a shoujo, it's a josei.

[@_lemony_tart]

Do you want to know what shoujo anime really freaked me out with it's age gap relationship? Card Captor Sakura. I don't remember if they showed it in the old anime but in the manga one of Sakuras friends is in love with their homeroom teacher and he feels the same...ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN!!! It was seen as totally okay and by the end of the manga we were left with a "oh yea they love eachother and they know its wrong he is gonna wait for her" or something...ugh

[@val875]

I know right. It blew my mind.

[@ShanyShannon]

Woahhhhhh 😯😬🤢 how disappointing!? I had put off watching that anime for 15 years. Not okay at all!

[@denizkaragullu6239]

@@ShanyShannon it is a good anime please watch it ;-; The anime doesn't show the relationship just the girl's crush

[@monicacreator3168]

The older brother was in a relationship with his teacher (the red hair woman) + Sakura's parents...

[@denizkaragullu6239]

@@monicacreator3168 yes older brother was a middle schooler too... I am so happy that they don't show those relationships in the actual anime and they are only talked about as a past thing. I love this anime and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the good parts if that was the case

[@Sailor_Universe]

It's funny because even in Marmalade Boy's sequel manga, when Miki tells her siblings how Meiko and Namura got together, one of them goes "She got with her teacher? Isn't that bad?" And Miki just responded they were a special case. I used to believe there were exceptions to the rule, but now that I'm older, I realize this is fiction. Their relationship is an unrealistic portrayal of student/teacher affairs. Its romantized for entertainment and fantasy purposes, but in real life, its terrifying.

[@Gross126]

Not defending Brother’s conflict bc I never watched it and was a grown ass woman when it came out… but let’s talk about what these stories happen. So in harem animes we usually see a very basic or downright ugly guy who has all of these ridiculously beautiful and interesting girls and women falling for him. There usually is a mother figure lady, the too young one, and the a number of other relationships. Men use these stories as wish fulfillment. They are equally as problematic but the way most societies are set us - men have power. So even if some of the relationships with the older women are predatory, the author and viewers don’t read it that way because of how our society thinks boys ALWAYS want female attention. The only story I ever saw depict this realistically was The Perks of being a Wallflower. Now for reverse harem. We have to understand the society man if the society these women live in. In Asia and many African and middle eastern countries and honestly places all over the world women are not really allowed to openly desire male attention. Any mention of liking male attention makes a girl a slut on many of these settings. So when authors create stories, they make the male character super aggressive and put this girl in many situations where “she couldn’t help it.” This removes the ownest from the female lead. “It’s not her fault any of this happened. These guys are just so into her, they couldn’t help but force themselves on her.” With this, she gets to remain innocent and the men are shown as ravenous monsters which many women see men in those societies as. Ah it’s very interesting but my comment is too long at this point.

[@iamyou3080]

I love this comment!!

[@Mercy.Beloved]

I completely agree! They never bat an eye when it happens to men and boys. The double standard is disgusting.

[@miguelorozco4445]

There aren't ugly guys in harem animes They are just normal looking guys like the female main characters in shojos

[@akale2620]

True, best comment. But it's a lil reverse also.

[@Hi-yt2xk]

While I agree that women don’t get to feel comfortable in their sexuality in many places in the world(and men are almost always given a pass when it comes to unwanted sexual advances) but Brothers Conflict isn’t really examining this idea. It reminds me more of older Hollywood films, where a man would relentlessly pursue a woman until she gave in(think Baby It’s Cold Outside). At the end of the day, the men in Brothers Conflict are still portrayed as desirable, and an option for the MC despite some of them crossing many of her boundaries. Overall, I think Brothers Conflict is not the best harem out there for women, but I do agree it is one among very few better options.

[@damatically]

You know i feel bad for hachi. She got married to takumi and he proceeds to gaslight her in their marriage and cheats on her 😭😭😭😭

[@cosmiccrush22]

Reality of casual sex, not using protection and the idea that it will all work out. Reality showed her alright

[@choux8372]

Tbh it was hard not to be pissed at Hachi for making such a dumb decision. Like, Nobu was healthy in all aspects, and she even acknowledged how different it was to be with him, and yet, she STILL chose to be with the guy who was clearly never going to be faithful to her from the very start. But, through a different lens, it makes sense why she would do that. It feels like Hachi was always looking for something grander to save her from her "average" existence in a small, milquetoast town.

[@AndSoWeLaughed]

I did for about 3 pages. She didn’t need to choose Takemi. She cheated on Nobu. And then she basically is trapped into a house wife life - which is everything she THOUGHT she wanted before, but noticed she really did enjoy her friendships and being an independent woman even if she was terrible at it. Lol. She had this obsession with Takemi and they had literally nothing in common. I stopped feeling bad for her quite quickly.

[@choux8372]

@@AndSoWeLaughed hard agree!! Hachi was only what, 19 or 20 when she met him, then got pregnant? Her independent life was barely starting 😭 At least Nobu scored himself a nice lady who also happens to be a pornstar.

[@miriammorales1990]

@@AndSoWeLaughed my life has been exactly like Hachi's😅😅

[@choux8372]

What's crazy is that when i was 12, I was just enjoying these stories for the fantasy while still being aware that relationships between adults and minors IRL were "wrong". But my child brain still couldn't grasp the very real connotations that came with an age gap that large, and I thought while reading, "Well, if he's a nice person, I guess it's okay for them to proceed". Such was the case for stories like Nana and Fruits Basket for me. The adult characters in these scenarios were never drawn as actual human beings with ulterior motives, but rather as attractive, kind, respectful idols hiding only surface level flaws, like "clumsiness" or being "too polite".

[@christinazolezzi5746]

Honestly same. Didn’t fully realize it. I remember having a friend in high school who briefly “dated” a 40 something 😭😭 and I remember being mildly supportive, like as long as you know what you’re doing type thing 😭😭😭 16 year olds are not smart about this sort of thing

[@pbnj0]

i had the same experience in my adolescence, i didn't realize the power that these older characters had over their younger counterparts until i was 19-20 and i started actually feeling the difference in maturity between me and younger teens... so rereading/watching old shows and seeing these odd portrayals of relationships i never caught or paid any mind to before was so strange. i can't even enjoy stuff that's like "thousand year old immortal and 16 year old teenage girl" anymore lol. and i completely agree with your last point! it's commonly painted as if the harm that came from their actions was because they were complex characters, not because they were predators.

[@TenderNoodle]

Me too! Up until my very late teens, I couldn’t even attempt to fully process why it was so gross to adults, because of the amount of media I consumed about “forbidden” student-teacher relationships where they portray adults and minors as on the same plain mentally, and that the only thing holding them back is social boundaries. Extremely disturbing how little I understand as to why these relationships were so wrong due to the lack of cautionary tales in both western and eastern media about this type of thing.

[@flamingaish]

that's how i didn't even realise i was being groomed. scary

[@Nutmeg1993]

In regards to Marmalade Boy I was really disappointed that Meiko ended up with Mr. Namura not only because of the age gap but also I really liked Meiko with Satoshi. 😆Satoshi had Meiko’s best interest at heart and she had great chemistry with him too in my opinion. Also they were the same age which is a total plus lol 😂

[@itsbasicboi]

YUP!! YUP!!

[@marielavender9768]

This what really turned me off on marmalade boy as a kid and even sacrifice our already broken tv so that my sisters couldn't watch and me cringing at the sounds of it...

[@kemiowokoya5518]

Yeah. I couldn't get over Mieko choosing Namura over Satoshi. I refuse to rewatch Marmalade boy because of it. Thinking about it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[@sruthidivvela4298]

I liked nana but found relationship between shin and Reira problematic . I somehow feel the show shld have addressed it better . They did good job with hachi but shin's relationship with older women made me really uncomfortable. I am happy that u addressed this topic

[@mimyeko894]

Shin deserved so much better than this, it disgusts me how Reira doesn't get anything for this

[@tamerafarly7666]

Great Video! 👍 I hated that Meiko married Mr. Namura. He was terrible. When a middle schooler confesses her love for you, you don't get in a relationship with them. You're supposed to let them down easy and then put some space between you. Meiko had a whole arc about getting over Mr. Namura. She had a boy her own age that she was starting to fall for and a future career as a writer. And then he decides to send her a letter and tear down all her hard work. The series tried to paint her parents as unreasonable for not wanting them to get married.

[@itsbasicboi]

YOUR COMMENT DESERVES AN EMMY! Shoujo anime needs an intervention. It’s crazy to think a young girl dating an adult is romanticized. Meiko deserved better 😥

[@grazisamor1991]

We are not their main audience. Japanese are. And they like age gaps. These animes are old too, from the 90s. Nobody cared about age gaps in fiction that much back then.

[@leslievalenzuela3810]

Brothers Conflict is originally an otome game (dating sim game). She starts with 17 years old, then 18. Yes, most of them are flirty, but in a short anime you can't develop each character route, so you really can't see her relationship with all of them. And I would say that this is more of a "mature" anime/game than a regular shoujo. Like NANA. Where I do find it messed up is in most CLAMP relationships and many other shoujo mangas where an adult male takes care of the protagonist as children and end up as a couple. That's really gross.

[@akasuna3_]

My thoughts exactly! I feel like this video was missing a lot of context about both brothers conflict and nana

[@bclp005]

@@akasuna3_ Not only Brother Conflict and NANA but this video was also missing a lot of context about Kodocha. Sana and Rei's relationship was like more father-daugther, not inappropriate.

[@suenzhong7891]

Usagi drop manga cough cough

[@Gross126]

Let’s also talk about Shoji from Nana. I think that’s her ex’s name who cheated on her. The girl he cheats on Nana with literally looked like a middle schooler. I always thought Shoji was a creep

[@bhavya5692]

She was actually 17 if i remember correctly

[@CarolaTesla]

@@bhavya5692 she was about the same age as shoji and nana, she was shojis classmate as well as coworker

[@graxis1993]

Yup it's a bummer that he did that.... I just wanted to smack the hell out of that guy's guts when he did that to hachiko 😓😓😓😓

[@tsubakihanazono]

Agreed BUT thinking about their relationship from beginning to end, you could tell it wasn’t a healthy relationship, they NEVER had the proper communication necessary to have a healthy relationship which was juxtaposed by Jun and Kyo’s relationship. Even when they first started it was founded on conflict and lust. [But when he cheats with sachiko if you remember when shoji first started liking nana she looked pretty similar to sachiko - maybe that’s just me ] Due to all the overwhelmingly obvious conflicts in Shoji and Nana’s relationship, he finds himself entranced by how self reliant and positive Sachiko is. I think he just found it easier to love her because unlike Nana and her dependency issues, sachiko didn’t have the same baggage as is evident in their eventual meeting and how they tackled the cheating issue. In the end, Nana is seen contemplating how she ended up spiraling onto the path which she ended up and deluded herself into believing if she had done enough then she and Shoji would’ve been together. Which is absolutely false, imho from the moment Shoji left her and told her to stay home he wasn’t into her anymore.

[@rebecamendez5456]

They were the same age and pretty much on the same page, even more than Hachi and Shoji because Hachi was really immature at that time. Sachiko only looked young because she was short, but she acted her age. So yeah, Shoji is an ass but I don´t think is fair to call him a "creep".

[@Sushidogbat]

I have nothing against age gap romance but only when the person is mature and at least out of college

[@missstranger7697]

Nana was 20. For her wanting a man was natural, she just didn't develop herself.

[@katitadeb]

I agree, the age gap between Hachi and Takumi wasn't even such big of a deal... What, 3 or 4 years difference? And they're both in their early 20s,so...

[@notthesimi]

Underage age gaps in shoujo anime. I hope that trope dies. It’s a gripe I have with favorite series Fruits Basket. It’s the one thing I want changed for the movie.

[@sruthidivvela4298]

I totally agree . I like the series alot but underage age gap relationship makes me uncomfortable

[@ladynoluck]

Unfortunately, it wasn’t changed for the movie 🥲 I also hoped that it would be changed but yeah…

[@alize0623]

Wait I was OG Fruits Basket and the reboot. What age gap was there? I don’t remember any between adults and underaged girls?

[@choux8372]

@@alize0623 there was two major ones, with Arisa and the bird dude, and Tohru's parents.

[@ehe.2961]

@@alize0623 Tohru's mom was at least 14 when she met her dad who was a teacher at her school and at least in his early 20s. plus her best friend Arisa ends up with Kureno, the rooster zodiac who is a solid 26 to Arisa's 16-18. i'm not sure if it's just a joke but Kyo's adopted father was teased to be set up with Hanajima, Tohru's other best friend, who is also about 16-18 years old. also spoiler Alert: Akito and Shigure end up being a couple as well and there is at least a 10 or so age gap between them plus he practically helped raised her so very weird vibes from that.

[@sxphx5121]

The fact that I've watched brother's conflict multiple times when I was 13 or 15, and I've never realized the whole abuse and predator behavior. Instead, I thought it was super romantic and liked those scenes 💀💀

[@Riaaonline]

No fr my young teenage self ate this anime up😭💔

[@anshikaprabhat6279]

It's just guilty pleasure and we all liked it. I see how cringy and problematic it is but still pretty nostalgic and I'm into reverse harem and it's just an anime so why not

[@sxphx5121]

@@anshikaprabhat6279 yeah, nostalgia really gets me with this anime :(

[@anime5360]

Brothers conflict is honestly gross like why would they make it in the first place

[@itsbasicboi]

That is a great question!

[@RedPilotl02]

@@taraallen7408 To be fair, School Days doesn't portray their characters and their actions as something good

[@RedPilotl02]

@@taraallen7408 I was missing a word, mb

[@jialenbaluran5376]

@Tara Allen I think you misunderstood @RedPilot02. That's the whole point of the anime is show horrible actions that the main characters choose. On top of that, it was adapted from en ero game

[@luislee3247]

​@@lxttiedxll959 Whether you like it or not, it's just popular enough to get an anime adaption.

[@MiaMizuno]

I loved the Nana anime for being so raw on issues. It really was more Authentic than any anime I knew back then. I wish, there are more of these

[@yourhonorr5439]

kodocha was my childhood favorite. even at my young age, I knew her relationship w rei was more familial than anything inappropriate. it was like a running gag. and I think it does a good job establishing that. and imo sana never truly had any romantic feelings towards rei. she is a kid, she doesn’t know what that really is at that point. she loves him as a father figure, is possessive of him(a bit) and she is scared of him abandoning her bc of her being an adapted child. thats what I understood but it has been a long time since I watched it.

[@enjisilverstone-nolongerac7533]

True even if she said boyfriend she probably thought it was a close male friend but still I think she knew partially what it meant to date as she was jealous of his actual girlfriend

[@yourhonorr5439]

@@enjisilverstone-nolongerac7533 I understand that but I think the jealousy was more about the fact that if he did get an actual gf then she wouldn’t be the most important girl in his life (from her pov). and eventually he would leave her and abandon her. ofc rei would never do that but I think in her eye it was all the same. I also agree that I think she knew the general sense of what a bf meant but to her, the love she felt for rei was every kind of love bc she still hadn’t learned to distinguish between familial and romantic love. hence her possessiveness of him when threatened by someone who could potentially take that love away.

[@ryleighminto238]

I do wish more shows would portray it as Nana does, as something that is corrupt and causes trauma. It shows how young people are easily taken advantage of and is a show that helped me to be more cautious of these events.

[@crudlucasconsigliere4084]

I think that an age gap is okay if both parties are at an age where their pre-frontal cortex has developed. Like, people on twitter were getting mad about an age gap between a 32 year old...and a 26 year old. Like, at that age, it doesn't matter.

[@matchaleche]

Tbf, is Twitter ever NOT mad?? 🤣🤣

[@localheaddealer1382]

@@matchaleche no sir 💀

[@christinazolezzi5746]

They both adults so like it’s fine to me 😂

[@andreja9425]

I’m in an open age gap relationship with someone who is 32 while I am 24. I am not sure if I should continue it or not tbh. Like it is weird to think that when I was 18 that they were 26. Idk they have so far been quite kind and romantic without really pushing me too much but idk I feel kind of young

[@kimareska]

@@andreja9425 I mean if your conversation flow really well and your vision match with each other, for me it doesn't really matter. Also, idk...your fashion taste kinda match (?) Because I see a lot of couple with age gap difference and they look like a father and daughter instead of couple because their style is wayyy wayyyyy too different era (and that's okay too if you don't really mind what people thinking, maybe I'm just over analyzing it because I work in fashion industry. But I think this is still a thing to note before diving into relationship)

[@ohw5306]

I think it's just a reflection of Japanese society towards their female population. It's says a lot that even when female mangakas are writing their own stories there's still traces of patriarchal treatment in their own stories

[@luislee3247]

Same tropes happen to western YA all the time, too. Just saying 🙄

[@remigal899]

It’s just a reflection of their pedophilic laws.

[@luislee3247]

@@remigal899 Says the guy whose country allows child marriage. Even Japan wouldn't allow that crap lol.

[@remigal899]

@@luislee3247 they might as well. Having 13 as low as your age of consent and literally your entire industry of Anime and manga being pedophilic authors isn’t any better at all.

[@luislee3247]

@@remigal899 That law was long ago and no one actually follows it irl. It's just lazy politicians didn't bother to change it until people finally voice their concerns recently. But of course, I shouldn't expect too much of an intellectual response from someone whose country is riddled with underage criminals that shoot up schools monthly lol. Also just a reminder, Japan still doesn't allow underage marriage, and also doesn't have nightclubs that allow children to perform, no child beauty pageant or drag show, and not as many highschoolers who do drugs and get themselves pregnant during some school dance party. Just saying.

[@arulofi]

I had a HUGE problem rewatching my favorite anime Sailor Moon after realizing that Usagi was 14 and Mamoru was 18.

[@moondivine2288]

In the manga Usagi and Mamoru are closer in age. She’s in middle school, 14 years old and he’s in high school, 16 years old. For some reason they decided to age him up in the anime

[@yupsostfu]

i stopped watching when mamoru likes usagi than rei. Thats bullshit actually

[@moondivine2288]

@@yupsostfu that was made up in the anime. In the manga Rei wasn’t interested in Mamoru. She was a miko, a shrine maiden and wasn’t as boy crazy.

[@bclp005]

@@moondivine2288 Ikr, at least in the Crystal anime their age are closer like in the manga (since Crystal is more based on the manga). I still don't understand why in the 90s anime they aged Mamoru up.

[@amarazo8499]

Nobu would’ve been rocky for her as well. He had a savior complex imo. Even Nana Osaki throws it in his face. I think it would’ve been a good lesson for Hachi to date Nobu; I always reference the line where she talks about how she’s so used to only seeking out and receiving affection, never being the one it is sought from / giving it out the way she was when cradling Nobu.

[@remwifeyy]

(Manga Spoilers) To speak a bit on the nana section, its actually not true that Nobu didnt like the idea of Hachi sleeping with Takumi because he didnt want her to be a victim to his womanizing tactics! It was actually because Nobu thought so purely of her. He saw her as a girl who could only sleep with men she was in love with, whilst he didnt see Asami (Yuri) the same way. Nobu saw Asami (Yuri) as a woman he could only sleep with but not love, & didnt hold any amount of respect for her. As well as believed that because of her profession, he could never love her. It was only until he learned she was also a dependent, helpless woman that needed a hero, similar to hachi. that he then dated her. He only did so because he saw her as essentially his "replacement hachi", or, his rebound, and even gaslit her once Hachi was in his life again. Regardless of who Hachi was truly in love with (it was Nana), I definitely agree with your points on how Asano's grooming affected Hachi! This entire video is amazing. Hope this helps!

[@bhavya5692]

Yes it was Nana!!!

[@user-vv3xx6wl9v]

YES! So well said!

[@rhaelicent]

Personally I see hachi as a victim of grooming and that she also has major comphet and feels.. forced? To like all these guys. Because to me it seemed like she only fell in love with them for super surface reasons many women feel they ‘must’ fall in love for & her crushes weren’t really that long lasting or anything. Contrast all the feelings she had for any of the men in nana to, well, Nana. She never felt that way about anyone else throughout the manga and the narration from Hachi in the future only proves this more. Soooo this leads me to believe hachi maybe never was truly into any of these men to begin with and may actually be a lesbian. Maybe this is far fetched for some, but it is my truth and I’ll speak it

[@remwifeyy]

@@rhaelicent So real. As a lesbian who experienced comphet myself, seeing Hachi and how she was towards all these men & how they weren't right for her definitely led me to see myself in her. She's great unintentional (I believe) rep!

[@rhaelicent]

@@remwifeyy yes exactly! Same for me (I’m also a lesbian). And who knows, maybe it was intentional? We don’t really know what the author was going for but one thing is for sure, her love for nana is obviously unparalleled and I still believe they’ll end up together

[@otakubullfrog1665]

I was surprised to see Brothers Conflict discussed as it's almost ten years old and I didn't think it had much of an impact even when it aired. I didn't have anything to back this up other than the fact that I couldn't finish it even though I tried to keep up with just about every seasonally airing show back then, so I checked MAL and I see that it's sitting at a 6.00, which is higher than I would have guessed. I suppose that the premise of a girl suddenly being sent to live with thirteen pretty boys is so unrealistic that certain people in the target audience can appreciate it purely as wish fulfillment without thinking too hard about whether the relationships are appropriate.

[@iamyou3080]

Honestly it’s not just shojo, it’s everywhere. It sucks because shojo barely gets any new anime and gets shit on all the time anyways.

[@ladynoluck]

Shugo Chara, a series for **kids**, ends with a 17-year-old being with the 12-year-old main character (she’s still in elementary school and he’s a high school senior at the end 😬😬😬). They meet when she’s 10 and he’s 15. 😰

[@neppc5612]

Omg i loved this show as a kid and never noticed this😭😭

[@daphnedaphn3]

LSJDEISIA PLSSS EVEN AS A KID I KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH AMU AND IKUTO'S RELATIONSHIP

[@ladynoluck]

@@daphnedaphn3 SAME!! They still presented it like it was like super romantic to us!!

[@BeautyBySilence]

And people still supported this. I thought Ikuto was too old for Amu and Tadase didn’t like her for the real her, so she deserved to be happily single.

[@nessyness5447]

Wait, but they don't end together..at least i don't remember that in the anime, not sure about the manga.

[@BonazaiGirl]

I’d make Nana an exception given that it actually showcases how manipulative the relationship was due to the age gap.

[@everythinggaming9651]

TYSM FOR THE KODOCHA MENTION!!!! It is so underrated and you dissected it amazingly

[@lovedreamer4122]

The worst part is that some of these manga are literally made for girls aged 8 to 14, I wouldn't mind josei doing this but I don't think it's a good idea to present big age gaps as wholesome when most of your readers still go to elementary school

[@mayoneysketchup4869]

Truee ive read mangas like these that age and it really reflected why my ideal boys are senior guys because it seem "cool" when youre that age. Instead of liking the good ones you will like the ones whos mean to you. It really sucks and they wonder why shoujo is dying. Lots of shoujo are really cringy and sucks only decent ones are counted like orange,yona many more. I like fushigi the story line is good

[@udonkey431]

I feel like there r different types of shoujo animes tho, u have the ones aimed at primary school age girls and ones for secondary school age. Usually the ones containing a lot of romance r for the older girls which is why some of them have a lot of age gap relationships bc teenage girls tend to have crushes on older guys. As a teenage girl who’s been into older men since she was a child, I’ve always known it was wrong (bc my mum taught me these things from a young age) so watching these types of anime didn’t change that and automatically make me think it’s okay and romantic like a lot of ppl in the comments r saying it would. Tbh it was actually these types of shows that kept me from wanting to pursue any type of relationship like that bc I felt like I was living through them enough to be content (I’m aware of how silly and pathetic that sounds but I couldn’t care less, it’s kept me out of trouble)

[@suenzhong7891]

There was an age gap romance manga I read where a high-school girl babysit a man's niece and nephew (he is their guardian after their dad up and left). Her genuine love for the children is what causes him and her to become friends and rely on one another. When they end up developing romantic feelings for one another the man acts responsibly like the adult he is and doesn't get together with her. He tells her to focus on school, graduate and become a working adult before deciding if she still wants to be in a relationship with him after having grown up. She does all of that and years later they get together. That was one of the few age gap romance manga which didn't make me feel squicky because so many others definitely did.

[@jyodee_3159]

Same!! If we’re talking about Love So Life, I had the exact reaction. At first I thought it was iffy that the girl is in high school but is more mature than other girls her age because of her circumstances while the guy is 27, but I really enjoyed the development of their relationship because they ultimately had the twins’ well-being as their main priority, and Seiji confesses but specifically states that he wants her to take the time to live her own life and see the world before she decides whether she still wants to pursue this relationship in the future (after 10 years, not ‘I’ll wait for you to graduate high school and get married immediately’) Which I think might be the most responsible non-icky way to approach this?

[@abrahamlupis9354]

Otoyomegatari is about the romance and marriages during the 19th Century, and while girls are younger when they marry, the main girl marries a younger boy instead, the main girl is patient and the young boy looks forward to be an adult to have babies Is SO supported

[@suenzhong7891]

@@abrahamlupis9354 I love that manga too!

[@SleepyRue]

Nana will always be my favorite anime because i can relate to it so much Ai is such a fantastic creator i love how she teaches people on different dynamicss in relationships is and how trauma and abuse in relationship can have a big weight on you as you get older.

[@skullgarden2417]

Some of her stuff is also problematic. Paradise kiss is a hot mess.

[@SleepyRue]

@@skullgarden2417 Not really paradise kiss is also good because i know tons of people who been through that as well i think Ai is just showing realistic relationships and hardships i'm starting to think both is based on her life and the people she grew up with a little. Ai stuff is always relateable to some people i hink that is the whole reason peoole love Ai and her creations so much because alot of people see themselves in those characters she made.

[@pelphor6710]

When in adulthood, I don't see age gap relationships as being inherently bad - permitting that both people are in similar life stages. My best friend's boyfriend is 8 years older than her, but when they got together, they were both living their adult lives.

[@rhaelicent]

As someone who’s friend was in a VERY BIG age gap relationship I want to say that personally the reason I never opposed it or tried to confront her about it is because I knew she’d react negatively and only withdraw from me. All her family was already lecturing her (as they should tbh) and so I didn’t want to do it too or else she’d feel alone, isolated and like she had no one to talk to (which is even worse)

[@dodgyyoutuber9560]

No that’s a good response. Don’t encourage her fantasy, but don’t make her feel like if something bad happened and she came crying to you that you’d say “I told you so” and make her feel ashamed. Just be there.

[@RandomSwiftie13]

Is she out of that relationship??

[@rhaelicent]

@@RandomSwiftie13 thankfully yes. She left on her own terms too (not for age related reasons though) so at least she wasn’t the one ‘dumped’ either

[@RandomSwiftie13]

@@rhaelicent that's good to hear! I hope she is making better life choices now...

[@rhaelicent]

@@RandomSwiftie13 we can hope. I know right now she’s dating more her age, but she still doesn’t see anything wrong with her previous relationship either.. or well at least not age wise. She’s quite defensive of that aspect even

[@SHIRO_111]

Indeed it's time to address it's, it's good, like peak content

[@courtneybrittain74]

Ok but the age gap was not the only problem in some of these… we not gonna talk about how marmalade boy and bothers conflict are romanticizing step siblings 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@iRinnda]

I was thinking the same thing. Seriously, I'd rather give a pass to noticeable age-gap than romantic sibling relationships. :D With age-gaps there's the chance that as the couple grows together, don't rush things and respect one another, that kind of relationship can still work. But with siblings? It... It simply won't work, man. XD

[@lolyoutoobe]

Just found your channel and watched everything, it's criminal how your videos don't have more views.

[@junecrocker]

Revolutionary Girl Utena is a rlly good show that deconstructs these tropes btw (I haven’t started the video yet and I’m very excited to watch it :D)

[@Paper_nylon]

i love your deep dives!!! no wonder while i was watching some of these animes as a teenager, i felt that something didn't quite make sense. you put it into words that my 15 year old self couldn't process lol - and to this day this is still common in mangas. I'm glad people realize these tropes are toxic and problematic.

[@itsbasicboi]

Thank you so much!! These tropes always never sat right with me. But after researching these shows and looking at their age…. 😣😣😣😣. I low-key feel like companies take advantage of teens naivety.

[@frannava7175]

@@itsbasicboi funny most are made by women for women I bet u think it's man fault huh

[@garotapolvo944]

i absolutely agree with you!!1! this kind of age gap is very problematic and i feel sick watching those... but i watched "after the rain" and ngl i kinda like it idk (it's weird ik but it's soooo cute), at least they don't end up together tho it's just a crush tachibana had on her boss like nothing really happens, and i think it's a very common situation so... idk ????

[@itsbasicboi]

Framing is so essential, it would be hypocritical to say that there are no age gap relationships in real life. However, I just didn't like how unrealistic these portrayals were (specifically in marmalade boy). I Absolutely agree with you!! When I was younger my friends would have crushes on older people, but the older people never reciprocated the feelings. Those relationships are perfectly fine and quite normal.

[@JayDay04]

Where I live, teenager girls dating young adult guys is super normal, so like, usually there's the age gap of the girl being 15-17 and the guy being 18-20. I don't think this age gap is unhealthy. For instance I had a crush on a guy who was two years older than me, so if I was 16, he was 18 back then. I think the problem comes when there's a very big age gap, like a student and a teacher (who's most likely on his late twenties). Idk, age gap is a complicated thing, but I definitely think Americans are much less tolerant towards it. In any case, if the relationship is abusive or manipulative in any way, it's wrong. I do believe minors and adults getting together isn't a good thing, no matter the age gap.

[@abrahamlupis9354]

I would give them a chance, if I'm forced to accept teens pretending to be the other sex

[@probablynotafern]

still remember that one korean magical girl anime where the main character is 10-11 years old, gets a crush on a 16-17 year old guy and it's framed as completely normal... I won't go too far into the plot but there's one scene where she needs mouth to mouth recussitation and a DIFFERENT 16-17 year old guy gives it to her (he's the one the show actually wants us to ship the main character with since her crush is a villain in secret) but then he gets cold feet and leaves, only for the evil crush guy to show up at her side as she wakes up and she thinks her NEARLY ADULT crush just gave her mouth to mouth and it's all framed as this dramatic doki doki moment when it's really just creepy either way...

[@ellehcimeu]

It’s crazy to see this video. My friends and I grew up watching this age gap complex not just in shoujo, but in East Asian media in general. My best friend, who also consumed a lot of this media, started dating a 17yo when we were both 12yo. Back then it felt normal to us - likely because of all the age gap media we were consuming - but, it also felt sort of odd. I can’t speak for everyone, but for me and my other East Asian friends, this was somewhat normalized.

[@Gross126]

I watched Marmalade boy as a teenager and I cannot for the life of me remember that relationship. Hopefully that doesn’t mean that I thought it was fine at the time. But honestly, I probably did. Like in Pretty little Liars with Ezra and Aria. I remember thinking it was odd but it didn’t really start to bother me until I was in college. Then I stopped watching the show. It’s scary to think how much subliminal messaging we all consume.

[@reyanime]

I don't watch shoujo anime or read it but I do read/watch BL and there's several bl stories that are just so wrong for the same reasons. So many toxic relationships that usually start with rape and the the one raped falling in love with their rapist which rubs me the wrong way.

[@turqussy]

i remember seeing a bl where the uke (the bottom i think) got r worded bye the seme, but its not treated as cute. the uke tries to separate from him and the seme is shown as abusive

[@user-wh5fj6pj6m]

@@turqussywtf is a sème

[@nelsama0881]

@@user-wh5fj6pj6m the dominat partner of a romantic relationship

[@user-wh5fj6pj6m]

@@nelsama0881 why is there a name for that

[@nelsama0881]

@@user-wh5fj6pj6m Well, its the internet... and it is a popular term in fanfiction since the ancient days.

[@FatimaMarques0890]

Age gaps are not the "problem" is the way some(most of the)times are portrayed in entertainment. Either manga, anime, books, series, or movies. It's concerning the overromantization of predatory behavior. Yes, it creates conflict and puts the audience on edge, yearning to know what's going to happen next, and on paper taht's thrilling however in real life... so it'd be great to see depictions of both situations. How to recognize the red flags and make the character to turn away from these situations and dicern when it can actually become a normal healthy relationship.

[@nschannel826]

I think the reason why this is prevalent in shoujou anime especially is because it's partly made as wish-fullfilment for young girls and many teen girls have had crushes on people way older than them. That doesn't make it better, but it does show that this sort of toxic wish-fullfilment doesn't only show up in animes within the male demographic

[@Bbyluvvv]

Nana is definitely a top 5 anime 💕

[@xMarshmallowo]

You know, funnily enough, I watched this when I was a lot younger (maybe when I was between 10-14) and I saw absolutely nothing wrong with any of this. I just thought it was romantic and the epitome of the saying "love conquers all," and they definitely shaped my idea of what was acceptable in a romantic relationship and what isn't. Watching this today as a 21 year old woman, I'm rethinking EVERYTHING, and only now realize the negative way these shows have influenced my life. I'm going to need to do some introspection after this. This video was great, thanks for making them and keep on doing so.

[@sadiestudies4146]

Wait, briefly you showed yona of the dawn as one with a grooming like relationship, but I thought yona and ham were like 1 or 2 years apart? They’re like childhood friends? This is tbh the only one that I watched out of all the others you showed, just because for a young age even I seriously hated this trope and stayed away. It always made me really uncomfortable that anime was romanticizing relationships with adults and minors, especially in a present time context.

[@yanoizikawa770]

Right? The only character I can think of that has a big age gap in it is guen-tae and his 19 year old wife and even then she is a legal adult and they're such a wholesome couple. Yona of the dawn doesn't belong in this trope.

[@sailormoonwannabe]

I was wondering the same thing, I LOVE Hak & Yona and it shows them as little kids together. The age gap might be like 2 years at most.

[@nurarihion]

This ain't a problem only of shoujo anime, all erotic manga genres seem to play with borderline pedophilic and predatory relationships under the excuse that it's fiction and not real people, it's an issue as I understand that has been brought up in international debate, but so far both Japan and the US have protected this kind of content under the excuse of artistic license or something of that kind. The most gruesome depictions come in shota and loli erotica where literal kids are involved. It is saddening that such content is so fervently defended even by many mainstream mangaka, which has led me to distance myself from anime/manga culture in general.

[@plzleavemealone9660]

Shugo Chara should probably be on top of the list... I still love the show but thinking about it now... Amu was 11 and Ikuto either 16 or 17.

[@thomaszloi9444]

Wait from what I remember peach girl had antagonist who was dating older actor/model and she made him help her to destroy main character's life by pretending this model slept with her while she was drunk. The whole thing wasn't portrayed as something good rather horryfying and I think mangaka wanted to address to girls in old times(when we were all less progressive) to not engage with alcohol and adult life too early(I know model still wasn't portrayed as bad guy the girl he dated was(but she's still a highschooler) in some way this was depicted as demystifying romantic lifes of celebrities and wanting to become model from such young age I think. Outside of that all main characters were teens and ended dating each other.

[@ketsunoAna123]

its just the "trope" problem just like usually in shounen it will be sexualized or idolized of women,the shoujo have this cheating,age gap/grooming problem and yeah its on purpose.

[@moonlightpaw5868]

This has something to do with culture too especially Asian culture. Where I'm from 14 and 15 years old is the perfect time for girls to marry. My sister's first marriage was with a 22-year-old man and she was 13 at the time. Her second marriage was she was 15 and marry to 30 years old widow (My dead aunt who is my dad's youngest sister's husband) with 4 young kids. We sent her to his house to help take care of the kids because my aunt killed herself after finding out he cheat on her, but somehow my aunt's husband make my 15-year-old sister his new wife. My dad was mad and thinking about killing him but people stop him. Can you imagine a man who is the cause of your little sister's death is now getting on with your 15-year-old daughter? Disgusting! People around them think what he did was normal. If you are 25 and not married by then you are considered a leftover. Now even men the same age as me (26), I feel like I am too old for them. And the only men I can date now are 35 and above.

[@isotetra1912]

Dont let that get to you, you should be dating men your age, not men older than you Its fucked up what some cultures do to women tbh

[@raisyrosye7656]

I'm 17 and ever since I turned 16, I've gotten jokes about being married off from my father's side of the family...I'm glad my mother wants me to get my master's first before I do anything else...

[@runny.nose_]

Cardcaptor Sakura will always have a special place in my heart. When I was younger the part where some characters have a relationship with someone older did not bother me but as I grew older I am looking at it differently. Like tf dude? She was only in elementary. This reminds me of a video I watched abt Usagi Drop. Did not read the manga but that ending sure was f* up.

[@tutsebhatu6495]

ty for adressing these serious topics

[@yanoizikawa770]

Question: Why did you place yona of the dawn as one of your examples? There isn't a large age gap between yona and Hak at all. They even grew up together and were childhood friends. Only 3 years is between them. She doesn't have a romantic relationship with any of the other 4 dragons or yoon. They are all just a large happy family. I can think of only two couples which is Kaya and Zeno but that doesn't make any sense since Zeno is immortal. And guen-tae and his wife but his wife is 19 and they are such a wholesome couple. Even Lili who has been spouting off that she likes older men so much is brushed off and the man she likes is married. I'm caught up to the manga so please explain to me how yona of the dawn is one of these shows. I think you're making people reluctant from ever reading or viewing this amazing show with awesome Character development and such a strong female lead. This is not a hate comment I'm just genuinely asking for an explanation. I can't promise that I won't be biased since it is one of my all time favorite shows but trust me I'll keep an open mind.

[@pareshroy2462]

I was searching for a comment about yona gosh. Thanks

[@MaryLuCrafts]

I saw a flash of Yona and wondered the same thing.

[@sailormoonwannabe]

Looking for this comment also.

[@leavemealone802]

I think we have to analyze two sides of this situation: it is mess up, the amount of inappropriate relationships in shoujo Mangas. There is a argument to be made on how, making stories portraiting those relationships in a good light is problematic and it can open gates to disgusting people to take advantage of the situation. We need to ask ourselves, why this is so common in stories made for young girls, why is it acceptable and of There is trully harm being made (Please read it until the end, I promise I am going somewhere) Why is it done: is very common for girls to want to date older guys. Most of the time they are guys 2-3 years older than her (similar grade age), but there is also a HUGE ammout of girls that fall in love with celebrities and teachers, who are almost a decade older than them. Is it wrong for girls to develop crushes on older guys? No, not really. Is important to the girl to understand why she feels this way, and why she shouldn't try to make this relationship a reality. Fantasy and day dreaming doesn't hurt anyone, and it can in fact help the development of a person, giving them a safe space to explore emotions they still developing. And what is something that is very used as a safe space for people to understand emotions? Midia, and in this case, comics. Imagine you are a young girl, and you have a crush on your teacher. You of course know this sort of relationship can't happen, but you still have those emotions inside you. A healthy thing to do, would be reading a story involving a relationship with a teacher, as in a way to put yourself in the shoes of the protagonist. The girl has a escape for the fantasy, and nobody gets hurt. Now, is it possible for this to have the opposite effect, and make the girl go and persuade a relationship with a older man? Yes, there is this possibility. Honestly I never met anyone that did this, or was reciprocated by the older man, but I think is a possibility, but a very low one since most people understand what is real and what is a fantasy Can the media be used by a predator to get with young girls? Yes, but that wouldn't be the fault of the story would it? The stories are mostly made to fulfill fantasies, not to be used as a guide or to be treated as something that must happen I honestly believe that shojo artists put so much of this trope in their stories, because Japanese people as a whole have a better grasp of what should be a reality, and what should be a fantasy. Or at least, I hardly see Japanese people being against those tropes. If the public didn't want to see it anymore, there wouldn't have more of those stories, and there still are some very recent ones being made. You are all probably thinking, I must love this shojo trope and that I defend those type of stories. Honestly, no. As much as I am a fan of age gap relationships, there is no right or reason for SO many stories to have young girls dating guys 10 years their senior, or young boys with older women. Logicaly, we know those relationships cant work, and shouldnt exist, so why make stories involving something so vile as a minor dating a adult? if it is to fulfill a fantasy, I think is irresponsible for those type of stories to be made and market to young readers. I could use my own experience, and say that " I read shojos with those relationships and turned out fine! I was never SAed by older people, and I only got interested in older people after I turn 21" as a defense of this troupe, but I won't do that because even if that is mine and many others reality, there is still no reason for this trope to be so popular in the first place, specially when it can be done better and safetly. Age gap relationships work fine so long there is a age gap. the protagonist don't have to be in love with a guy 10 years older than her. A senpai that is AT MOST 3 years older (with CONTEXT) than her works perfectly, without making it weird, and helps fulfill a fantasy. If the story must involve a teacher, make the girl a freshman in college, a salary woman, anything a young adult would be. If the age gap must be wide, make them both adults. And that rules are applied to boys too, there is no need for a teenage boy to date a adult woman. And if the artist REALLY want to fulfill a teen fantasy of them, one where a teenager is dating a adult - then make those stories with a warning that it will involve those relationships, and publish as a story for adults. Three is no need to have s*x or violence, it can be the same old soft shojo you want, but if you will put in the spotlight a relationship that is immoral, and it only exist for the readers to regress to a teen fantasy of theirs, and imagine they are the protagonist (something that it is very normal, and is a k!nk that is meant to be done between adults only, and it shouldnt be judged if is done correctly), the you can't market to all ages. It should be only be consumed by adults that have those fantasies and k!nks, and nobody else. I think all art have a right to exist, with reason, context and responsibility. I don't think we should make art that makes the world worst, or promotes bad behaviour to any impressionable person that exists. I think there should exist art with dark, controversial and immoral themes, but it shouldn't be done without a reason, meaning it shouldn't be there only to offend or to harm. We should be able to explore bad things that happens in the world and to us, and find inner peace, a solution, or even a silver lining. Art should be used to disgust, offend, and provoke strong emotions on you, but it all should be done with care and responsibility. If you are artist that makes art to deal with your trauma, to get back control that was toom from you, and you share this art responsibly between people that went though the same thing, or is responsible enough to see it and understand such thing shouldn't happen, and can't happen in real life, more power to ya! But if you do controversial art and just, doesn't care who see it, there is no reason to make it other to offend or to promote bad behaviors, you need to seriously sit back and consider why you are doing art in the first place. Thank you for reading until the end. I have alot of pent up emotions about this topic and I hope it was worth it for the conversation. I am not the owner of the truth, and I love civil conversation, so if you want, feel free to start one in the comments.

[@Cassuss13]

I think something that pops up in a lot of romance geared towards women is “he’s not abusive and is the exception.” I notice it a lot in anime, but it’s also prevalent in western media. For example, outlander has multiple instances of “he could have raped her but didn’t, isn’t that so nice?” Or the reveal early on where it’s established that Jamie as the husband of a willful woman is expected to beat her. He doesn’t, until she does something I can’t quite remember and he tells her that he hasn’t beaten her at all but must in this instance. We as the audience is supposed to see him as endearing for only beating her a little bit. This trope is extremely common and is often perpetuated by women for women, he could abuse her if he wanted to, and kind of wants to but doesn’t so he’s dreamy and desirable. I think there’s a correlation in these kind of series especially with the age gaps, he’s established and secure and he could be manipulative and coercive but he just loves her so much that he just takes care of her. She takes her place in a subservient role and she is supported and taken care of by him and he doesn’t abuse her no sir. But he could.

[@SnowPhoniex]

You should have done Sakura Cardcaptor that shit hella filled with this!! I was shocked when I was first watching it!

[@marimecham]

I keep talking with my friends about our childhood favorite shoujo series and we all have to preface just about each series with "it seemed cute when I was young, but looking back this is pretty fucked up". Stuff that comes to mind are Shugo Chara (amu is like 12 or so and ikuto 17, plus daichi? who's like 13 and utau who's 16), full moon wo sagashite and even in series where the main couple doesn't have an age gap, there's side couples or other love interests who are older (think tokyo mew mew, and gentleman's alliance, kimi ni todoke). It's somewhat satisfying to finally see someone talk about it, like a confirmation that I'm not insane and this is common and kinda concerning.

[@nessyness5447]

At least in shugo chara they aren't really together at any point, it's lightly implied ut could be a future possibility,but nothing really happens.

[@christinazolezzi5746]

Yeah in Shugo chara they didn’t totally cross the line, was it weird and uncomfortable? Yes. But like, 13 year old girls are gonna crush on 16 year old boys.

[@danimesmile7375]

Ok but 15 to 17 is not that big of a deal in anime compared 12 to 30 so eke shoujo age gaps are nice but other than that rip

[@queeng2921]

Thank you for bringing up Kodacha, it’s an overlooked shouju anime

[@jijo3804]

FINALLY someone spoke about it it's about time thank u !!

[@zaynabmuhammadali378]

DUDE PLEASE REVIEW THE ANIME "SUPER LOVERS". IT'S SO DESGUSTING AS FUCK. AND THE CHARACTERS IN THE ANIME SUPPORT THE SICK RELATIONSHIP.

[@karissabirch8202]

As bad as it sounds, in Japan the age of consent was 13… so at the time marmalade boy was made (1994) the relationship was okay. Japan didn’t raise the age of consent to 16 until 2023 which is ridiculous

[@kev2034]

Kind of. The national age of consent was 13 but the actual age of consent was dependent on prefecture which most had it set to a minimum of 16. There was a case of a 40 year old in Nagasaki in 1999 who was charged for assaulting a 14 year old girl, even though it was technically within the age of consent nationally and she "consented" in the eyes of the law.

[@jelly_toast0.3]

Broooo these are wild... Totally forgot about Brother's Conflict till now and the "Stockholm syndrome" line was wild but fit well

[@126shyhinata]

Nana and kodocha, I feel like did it well. They show growth and struggles well. I never hear people mention kodocha ever, but as a kid, it was one of my favorites on tv.

[@mintfudgecupcakes]

why was akatsuki no yona flashed on screen as an example? (1:14) there aren't any big age differences that i recall. the main characters + love interests are like 2 years apart and grew up together as childhood friends; no grooming.

[@yanoizikawa770]

Yeah I agree.

[@thelovelybunny9012]

I haven't seen Marmalade Boy but Meiko's friends encouraging the relationship between her and her teacher is kind of expected from minors who haven't quite grasped the consequences of the situation. When I was in high school, I read this one manga called Pearl Pink, which had a character who was like 17 pledge to marry a 6-year-old when she was old enough to marry. High school me didn't bat an eye at this, but I know now that's literally the definition of grooming.

[@nurnadhirahsaing6169]

So... My comment might be controversial but I actually like age gap trope because I personally love some older men potrayed in anime. However, it is problematic. Growing up, I was kind of disensitized by the amount of predatory actions in anime until I started to watch more and more review/critics video on YT. I've started to realise how bad and gross some of the events in certain animes that I actually like. In my opinion, when you're young, you're easier to manipulate and misguided, and animes with tropes like this will stray you away further from the reality. I still like age gap trope but only when the characters are both consenting adults. I also hope people will touch more on the predatory actions in anime toward young boys because it is just as bad as the one with young girls. Btw so sorry for my bad grammar. English is not my first language.

[@icloesmfh]

Talking about Kodocha, Sana's relationship with Rei was more fratenal love, in this case an father x daugther relationship so I don't see anything inappropriate in their relationship.

[@mushroomlena]

Your channel is a real gem! Great video that breaks down different depictions of age gaps in anime. I’m so glad you talked about Nana and how her grooming affected her life and relationships. It’s a fantastic show and all the relationships in it deservingly give me the ick just in the tragic realism of bad relationships.

[@user-vc9mv8jw8d]

15:22 I love your character design

[@thatsrealroughbud...2394]

You missed the ultra creepy Inuyasha sequal where they change the Sesshomaru Rin relationship from an adoptive father/daughter relationship into a grooming paedophilic one. He raised her from the age of 8, and she’s 18 in the sequel already having given birth to two kids meaning not only was it paedophilic grooming, but child rape bc she can’t be 18 and have children old enough to walk unless that happened while she was a minor. The author however made Inuyasha and Kagome wait to get married and have kids until their 20’s… Just bizarre and gross, I don’t consider it canon.

[@coniwiiuwu5578]

The thing about age gaps in shoujos is that I don’t think they are trying to make it seem like a good thing, but rather, it’s just something the author wants to write. With Fruits Basket, for example, I think the author even said that she personally likes age gaps. It’s the allure of the Forbidden romance that they must like, not thinking of the actual consequences a relationship like this would have on real life, because it’s not real life, it’s fiction. They probably aren’t thinking that little girls/little boys will want to have a relationship like that only because of what they read in a fictional story 🤔

[@briannarobinson5159]

Even so, that makes it worse now. They should know their demographic and how impressionable they are. Their books are aimed at young girls still learning about themselves and the world, if they read enough books they going to think that it's normal. Especially if it's written in a romanticized way. P.s. I understand liking age gaps but why a child and adult? You can still have that with two adults.

[@coniwiiuwu5578]

@@briannarobinson5159 My guess is that they (the authors) fantasized about meeting an older guy that would sweep them off their feet when they were teenagers, and now they include that in their stories in a romanticized way because that’s how they see it-they see it as a romantic love story of forbidden love that conquers all in the end. A story they luckily didn’t experience in real life, cause if they had, they probably wouldn’t write it off as something romantic. Of course we can say “but what about their readers?” But the reality is that the authors are writing/drawing that stuff for themselves most of the time, they aren’t thinking of teenagers that might replicate the actions of the characters, they just want to write a story. Just like seinen and shonen writers aren’t thinking that their readers will imitate the questionable actions of the characters in their stories-it’s all supposed to be fiction. PS: I hate that “if they read a lot of things with that they will think it’s normal” argument. Fictional Books shouldn’t be teaching people what’s normal and what’s not, the people around them should be. Their family, their teachers-not a fictional story.

[@briannarobinson5159]

@@coniwiiuwu5578 I'm not trying to be rude or accuse you, but are you defending this? Are you saying this is okay just because it's fiction? Because that's not a good mindset to have. Rather you like it or not, fictional media can have a affect on people. Best example is is representation on TV. Why do you think so many people want people of color or lgbtq characters on children's media? To normalize it for children, so they can see that people like this are not out of the ordinary or weird they're just like you everyday people. And even if the writers aren't thinking about their audience and how they will take their writing and only doing it for themselves, that does not mean it's a good thing. You can't just write anything and not expected to have some type of impact on someone regards of how it is. Media will have an effect on people regards about oh they are, especially young kids who brains are still developing. There are plenty of books that have shaped generations of children's minds and their views of the world, manga is going to have the same effect. Books can teach people multiple things regardless of age. why this video was made, romanticizing age Gap relationships to a young demographic isn't a good idea regardless if it's fictional or not. I'm sorry if it comes up with rude but what you said kind of didn't sit right with me because this can be harmful. You don't have to respond at all you can just ignore this I just want to put my thoughts out.

[@coniwiiuwu5578]

@@briannarobinson5159 Welp, you misinterpreted my comment completely. Me saying “maybe this is why the authors write stuff like that” isn’t me agreeing with them, it’s trying to explain why they do it. Me acknowledging that I have no power to stop authors who _want_ to write stuff like that isn’t me condemning it, it’s accepting the reality that I can’t _force_ them to not write. You are talking as I’m one of those authors lol And most importantly, me saying that kids should learn from actual people and their experiences instead of fictional stories isn’t me saying that media doesn’t affect kids, it’s me saying that a kid’s *Guardians* should be the ones to teach them right from wrong, morals, and how some things are wrong despite appearing in mainstream media. I say this because that’s how I was raised, no matter what appeared in a show or book, my guardians always made sure to teach me what was okay and what wasn’t. You are free to disagree with me, though, just don’t make the assumption that I support stuff like that.

[@briannarobinson5159]

@@coniwiiuwu5578 of course. I'm sorry for that. That's my fault.

[@applehearts996]

Well a lot these are 90's anime, if you watch american tv shows from 90s and 80s, high school are always dating college boys or later like it's okay. It was a different time, no saying it's okay it's just a product of the age.

[@eboni730]

I felt the same way as well when I watched paradise kiss

[@coniwiiuwu5578]

There’s an age gap relationship in Paradise Kiss? 😦

[@theblushingbookworm]

Thank you for making this video! I finished reading Beauty and the Feast manga, and to be fair there was zero romance. The woman(28)was fixing these amazing dishes for Shohei( 16). Her husband had passed away so she wanted someone to cook for. I am grateful there was no funny business in there.

[@Nyx_Oskurita]

No because the anime Koikimo is my biggest ick of this trope. Like my guy really chases, harasses and manipulates the crap out of the MC and we are told it is all romantic gestures 🤮🤮🤮

[@ssaritachann]

Im a really big fan of marmalade boy, and I watched it for the first time when i was 13 or14, and I always thought of nomura sensei as a creep and I always rooted for satoshi. Itdoesnt make itjustifiable at all, but unfortuantely Meikos background is a big factor as into why she loved Namura sensei so much. Inthe 90s and before the 90s shojo anime always had this like pure if its real love nothing matters idealogy to it (which i totally agreed with when I was 13 too ) but ofcourse when u grow up and mature u realize its not really liek that.

[@chrissyweaver3475]

It's also a serious issue in the western world. Even in recent times. In Tangled, Rapunzel is a fresh 18 year old, and her love interest is like, 26-28. What the HELL. WHY? (And don't get me started on age gaps between love interests in live action movies. The male actor is usually in his thirties, and the female actor is usually 10+ years or more younger.)

[@nothing-jl2dz]

Very true it's pretty basic the girl looks completely smooth-faced like a 20yo and the guy has signs of aging (looks around 35-40ish) in western couples on screen

[@m.j.vazquez4720]

1-whats wrong with 18 and 26 ? 2- whats wrong with a 30 something and a 20 something ?

[@crimsonlily3640]

@@m.j.vazquez4720 for 18-26 i think it's because you don't magically become a fully mature person at 18, the brain fully develops only at around 24-25. Someone in their mid twenties might not go to jail for dating an 18yo but there's still a power imbalance between a completely grown person and someone who's still very much a teenager. Some people would rather not show a relationship like that as beautiful and romantic in media made for kids.

[@m.j.vazquez4720]

@@crimsonlily3640 1- you also don't magically become a fully mature person at 25 2-"the brain fully develops only at around 24-25." yeah that doesnt mean what you think it means what finishes is the short term decision making part of your brain but your long term is done around 16 3-''here's still a power imbalance'' there really isnt 4-pff what why they are both consenting adults

[@chrissyweaver3475]

@@m.j.vazquez4720 I'm 29. I am unable to find even 18-year-olds attractive. The thought honestly creeps me out. I don't see them as adults. I still see them as kids, cause mentally, they still are.

[@altrivotzck6565]

I agreed (mostly) with the whole video, until you said that something that's inappropriate shouldn't be placed on screen. Come on -_-

[@shemesh9687]

When I was 16, two of my classmates were with adults 4 and 6 years older than them, and the former married him when she was 19 or 20. I thought it was weird but also didn't really know what to do about it since any time I brought up that the age gap might not be appropriate they'd tell me it was fine or even get angry. I was also young and wasn't really talked to about grooming beyond love bombing in the abuse context. The one who married her groomer, she broke up with him when she was 18 bc he cheated on her the entire relationship, since they weren't sleeping together. So many levels of gross and it seems like the family pushed the marriage

[@AwkwardMang0]

I would like to give an honorable mention to Glass Mask, quite an older manga at this point from the 70's which was later made into an anime. The manga goes deeper into things so I'm mainly talking about the manga. The main protag is a 13 year old girl Maya who is a child actor who eventually has this sort of "forbidden love" moment with a director in the company she works for, he's named Masumi. So this story has a gross age gap of 11 years combined with an abuse of power. There is heavy grooming going on because Masumi acts as this anonymous fan at first, giving Maya roses all the time and other gifts. He constantly tells her to "grow up already", hinted at in a romantic way. The whole thing is pretty unsettling.

[@citlalisketch3821]

I just have to say this video is awesome!! I had to follow after this and so many of your videos are so interesting!!!

[@Kaffeeisresting]

I read marmalade boy back in elementary school from a friend's recommendation... Seeing this video makes me really glad I completely forgot everything that happened down to the plot of the story.

[@CandyThePuppy]

I love how all the channels that are along the lines of "just some random", "nobody special", "random guy", are always some of the most entertaining KZbinrs out there. XD

[@rinilinna]

2:00 - 2:20 yeah no bye thats bullshit, literally chronically online take

[@TAHOEkaleidonaut]

This needs a slightly more Historical, & Anthropological approach… Anyone hear of The Tale of Genji, Japan’s & possibly the world’s oldest ever (Harlequin genre) Novel? It was written OVER 1K YEARS AGO, during the Heian Era (about as glorified as China’s Tang Dunasty, or Europe’s Renaissance), by a noblewoman in the Emperor’s court, in a culture where children became Adults at the age of 12, & average age of mortality was… I think if I’m recalling properly 28->40, due to malnutrition. Many entries of poetry, journals, & letters written in this era may have laments for historical figures who died or the grief symptoms of those effected by the death of a loved one, including family, in their 20-somethings. Now, to spoil 2 major parts of Genji no Monogatari: 1: Genji (basically a noble playboy) is whole decades older than his main love interest when he performs her initiation into adulthood ceremony for his now 12 year old main love interest. The latter is the Author(/Murasaki Shikibu)’s self-insert character. What was the usual for this ceremony? Cutting her hair (yes, an ironically literal form of grooming; noble kids grew out their hair till they reached adulthood at 12, then had their coming of age ceremony via their 1st haircut). Culturally it’s still seen as very sexy (despite contemporary sources of this info being from Het-normative Japanese people)… Which is why any male lead reaching for/touching the female lead’s hair in Japanese media can either be suggestive of sexual interest - if not a complete euphemism of sex between the 2 characters depending on the portrayal. 2: Before the end, Genji’s somehow made it to 50 (an intrinsic cultural thing in Japan is that old people are scary &/or possible Bad45535 due to the odds stacked against reaching advanced age historically)… And is about to be exiled (mostly for being a playboy/cultured horn-dog with ladies out of his political league), so he beds Murasaki Shikibu’s self-insert character who is… again - whole decades separated in age, then accepts his sentence & pines for the self-insert female lead the rest of his days. 😅 Lamentably, it’s hard to kick a culturally semi-accepted, & ingrained kink. And I wish Japan would keep that in the past. Thankfully it slowly is, though It could always use a boost in sooner than later.

[@meff841]

Finally, a culturally ingrained perspective. The amount of times I’ve seen people on JP Twitter talk about how Tale of Genji awakened their age gap kink coz it’s compulsory reading in high school classics yet no one seems to have this framework in the west is just so ugh. Y’all just projecting your own Anglo-American views on it likes that’s a worldwide default when it’s just not.

[@TAHOEkaleidonaut]

@@meff841 it’s still a concerning kink, & there’s plenty of examples from idol culture alone (thru the decades) of how predatory & cast-away Japanese society can be towards girls/women. 1 sore spot: The whole anti-dating rule is an enabling construct for anonymous online hate to ruin the lives of those who break said rule (even if it really is a genuine love), while helping sell products/services associated with the idol/their likeness to their usually het-male followers no matter their age (or level of apparent/hidden kink). Perfect Blue, Aggretsuko, & Oshi no Ko all have lamentably accurate depictions of how good/bad idol culture can be.

[@meff841]

@@TAHOEkaleidonaut I’d refrain from relying on anime to form your opinion on how the j-idol industry works coz the director has said explicitly that Perfect Blue does not accurately depict the J-idol industry in any light and he’d be embarrassed if people took it that way. Here’s the official transcript: “The film is not based on any criticism. If the audience get the impression from watching the film that the idol system in Japan is like that, I’m embarrassed. Of course I did research before making the film and I visited a number of these idol events, but I didn’t see the kind of example that is used in the film. Also, to reveal behind-the-scenes secrets about the entertainment world was never my intention. I simply wanted to show the process of a young girl maturing, becoming confused because her old set of values gets shattered, but who is reborn as a mature being as a result of that. That’s what I wanted to describe. But because I had to stick with the idea of an idol, the film came to talk about that particular world.” It was not made to be accurate or critical. The idol element was simply a backdrop he could twist in a horrific way that worked well.

[@TAHOEkaleidonaut]

@@meff841 (good grief, it’s been a hot minute - or a few in Internet Eras)@@meff841Even Oshi no Ko has drawn criticism from skirting iRL so much that the author has been called insensitive to survivors of an idol who took her own life. And even the survivors get de/ath thre/ats. It’s appalling; hence why I say it’s a sore spot. And I’m giving anime examples for the layperson, so they get a better idea of the reality of what really is happening at the moment.

[@thatkodochagirl]

Ugh, I loathe Marmalade Boy! I couldn't finish it. I looked up the ending and she still ends up with the teacher. Disgusting!!!

[@Multi2794]

Awesome informative video !