I Was Lied To: How to ACTUALLY Pack a Backpack

[@danielparsons2859]

Older hikers are seeing an ultralight system as a way to prolong their hiking. At 52 I'm now thinking more about ultralight as I move forward.

[@MattShafter]

It can be a real knee saver!

[@Martyupnorth]

Nice demonstration. I'm a 52 year-old professional engineer, and I often discuss physics, chemistry and other science topics in my hiking videos. Like you, I've always been particularly careful with how I pack my bag. I do it for weight distribution, but also to be able to find something quickly, even in the dark. Top vs. bottom is important, but so is front vs. back. Cheers from Alberta. You got a new sub.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks Marty!!

[@jonathanbarber213]

I dig your videos. You’re the Alton Brown of Backpacking/Hiking. I’m a relative rookie and your thoughtful videos are second to none. Please keep them coming . High value

[@KB-re4ku]

Since 2004 I’ve had food middle of my pack against my back. Learned that when I did staff training at Mountain Equipment Co-op (MEC). Took a trip lead by a NOLS instructor and he had us pack that way too. You have yours all the way to the bottom is the only difference I see. But the literature I’ve seen (15+ years ago) diagrams the heavy stuff close to the body and mid-back (between bellybutton and shoulder blades height wise). All the best with your doctoral pursuits! Looking forward to your trail videos.

[@MattShafter]

Yes, just remember, my food isn't covering the entire bottom of my bag. it's in a rectangular sheet that's "hugging" back, from the small of the back to about thoracic level ~T8. Again, I don't know why people are trained that way. The trigonometry vs weight doesn't make sense.

[@KB-re4ku]

@@MattShafter trained to put heavier weight upward and/or outboard? Easy of accessibility probably.

[@donaldclark2250]

Hi Matt, congratulations on your journey to DPT! I am a 43 year veteran of this profession having diverse applications in private practice, hospitals, SNFs, etc. I share your passion for hiking/backpacking & appreciate your informative channel. Wish you success in an ever changing P.T. career. Don C

[@MattShafter]

Hey!!! Wanna be my CI? Clinicals are delayed due to COVID. Hee hee

[@SamwiseOutdoors]

I liked that you've brought the science into your argument on this and explained it thoroughly. I've gone ahead and subscribed because I'm really looking forward to watching your trail videos, best of luck with clinicals!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks SAT!

[@tcgregory7693]

Your center of gravity thought is right on. I have switched to a 20 liter running vest and an Osprey waist pack. All my heavy food goes in the waist pack and extra water carry if I need more than the water bottles on the vest’s shoulder straps. I have found this to be so much more comfortable than a traditional pack and feel better balanced and nimble.

[@rebeccasponderings8459]

Do you have a video or website shoeing this? I have been thinking that a modular system based around a lumbar pack would make much more sense and be much more comfortable.

[@janefreeman4121]

I have a lumbar pack from KS same Co. as Matt's KS 40 for the same premise... Paired with a short pack. KS does excellent work. A runners vest may be more comfortable. Haven't checked for ultralight options lately.

[@janefreeman4121]

@@rebeccasponderings8459 hi I also answered in the thread but wanted let you know specifically that KS makes a lumbar pack and it is a quality using ultralight materials.

[@MattShafter]

Yeh, post some pics of that setup!!! make sure you @mattshafter me so I see them. Thanks!

[@GODOFROCK22]

Thanks Matt! Im gonna try the feed bag idea on my next trip. Best of luck with the rest of your program!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks RB!!

[@TheAdventureGeek]

Love the idea of food first. I’m not sure why I’ve not thought of that before. Thanks for the video and I look forward to your trail vids. ATB - Julia

[@MattShafter]

Thanks TAG!!!

[@GhostlyPiano44]

I love the idea of you becoming more intimate how you share your adventures on KZbin!! Cheers and stay safe!

[@MattShafter]

I really liked shooting that and editing it. For sure more to come. How do you feel about drones?

[@GhostlyPiano44]

@@MattShafter drones aren't ultralight and you might have a hard time with legality. But they are too sexy not to try. I say 100 percent give it a shot.

[@SydneyReader]

I'm going to try this in my V2 if the world ever reopens. It makes a full opsak fit much better. I'm an engineer so you had me at center of mass.

[@EricSchwartz-sk8id]

Helpful video as always. I too keep my food close to my back with it dispersed (anatomically) from slightly below the belly button to mostly above it. Works for me. thanks again!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks for sharing!!

[@Querenciatv]

Lovely Video! Thanks for uploading. Can't wait to see more content 😊

[@MattShafter]

Thanks for watching!

[@elnino7486]

dope video man. definitely a bit different then the majority of packing a pack video. wish you the best on all your endeavors and look forward to future content.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks El Nino. I love your weather. Oh wait, no I dont.

[@AshleyBoyd308]

Nice, gonna try this method of packing on my next trip. Thanks for sharing.

[@MattShafter]

How did it go?

[@ChrisS5416]

Matt, Congratulation on finishing finals! Another great video, but I wish you had made it a week ago. I just ordered a KS50 two days ago. Now after watching your video, I am thinking I should have ordered the KS40. Appears to be a lot of room in that pack.

[@MattShafter]

Hey, at times I have totally wanted a KS50!

[@bobpadrick7718]

Nice, Matt. I've done two things designed to put the weight on my hips and get it off my shoulders: 1) put the food in first, like you do, UNLESS a bear canister is required where I'm going - then it has to go on top between the brain and the body because that's the only place it fits; and, 2) put all my little "reach for" items in a fanny pack that I wear in front. (First aid kit, fire kit, paracord, water filter, headlamp, bandana, bug net, sunscreen, bug juice, map, compass, whistle, maybe a Clif Bar, stuff like that.) It is an old Stansport 565 Fanny pack (I bought it in the early 70's) which is crescent-shaped unlike the square/oblong models they sell currently and so does not interfere with my thighs when I stride. Items are within reach right in front of me, and the little bit of weight (it varies at around 3 lbs.) seems to pull forward just slightly on my low back. I guess it's acting like a counterbalance. It's actually very comfortable. When I stop for lunch or at night, I take my backpack off and slide the fanny pack around to the back and it becomes a sort of scout bag. Maybe with your PT background, you can tell me why carrying the little bit of weight in the front is so comfortable. Also, maybe you can devise a way to carry a bear canister lower, perhaps on the outside of my pack? Best of luck with your studies.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks RP! The fanny pack is probably so comfortable probably b/c it sits so near your center of mass.I'll confirm when I start using one. I cant remember, but some packs do allow for the bear can on the outside.

[@Cale_Davison]

If you have d-rings at the bottom of your bag, where the strap meets, you could use them for rigging the can to the base of your pack.

[@gwmtnbiker]

FULLY AGREE! Did the same with food last summer for the first time. Carrying 6 days of food for BOTH my son and myself on PCT Washington sec J). While hiking, I considered the physics of what could prevent the pain of shoulder straps digging in so badly. Moved the food (like you) to run the length of my back. This eliminated the lever effect that was pulling the top of my pack away from my shoulders. PROBLEM SOLVED!

[@MattShafter]

That's exactly the dynamic im talking about! I loved Section J

[@gwmtnbiker]

@@MattShafter Best part of Section J was experiencing it with my 12yo son...even if I had to start with 20lbs of food.

[@stevebabler7845]

Dialed in and bucking UL convention yet again. That is why I keep coming back to these vids. I've heard so many people complain about the struts on Tarp Tent gear making them impossible to for ULs with 40L packs to use. Guess they just aren't very creative. I aspire to have my gear this dialed, I definitely have more pockets than I need and some item that could be lighter at a similar cost and function.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks Steve. Yeh, and the KS40 is small for its rating too. @DanStenziano thought it was too small and ultralightjerk said his 38L MLD Burn was huge in comparison.

[@davidson_oldbull_sectionhiker]

I viewed this video some time ago and found it was worth a second look. Congratulations on your studies.

[@MattShafter]

I missed this, thanks Warren!

[@whatsimonsaysabout...6447]

Nice video, thanks! Very well explained. I have tried different methods, including having food at the bottom. One thing I do that's a bit different is try to move smaller heavier items to the front of the pack (such as water bottle and camera on shoulder straps and cook system, ditty bag, snacks and other items into a "chest" pouch (not really chest as the weight is primarily on my waist but it clips to both my waist belt and shoulder straps - not as low as a waist pouch so I can carry more in there).

[@MattShafter]

Great tip!

[@articus5134]

Great video man! I might have to try this method out, especially with that long pack size of the Aeon Li!

[@MattShafter]

It should work, depending on the amount of stuff you're bringing!

[@articus5134]

@@MattShafter I have tried it with my Aeon on one side, the rest on the other, and then a full liter of water on the same side as my aeon and it worked out pretty okay, but I wouldn't try extended hikes like that 😅 I'll definitely try your way during my next trip! Thanks!

[@MegaMastiffman]

I agree with the physics part the only variable is everyone is different but I highly recommend people giving this a try it may work for you when I was in the military I packed my pack one way and once I got the atta boy from the higher up I’d promptly dump and repack it MY way because well I had to run with that dam thing on and the two mortar rounds where your water bottle would go presented a big dam problem for me at 150lbs also stoping short after running as hard as I could from A to B dam Inertia, great tip thanks

[@MattShafter]

Very true. I tried to keep the video short and included "average com" instead of explaining ALL of it. Dang mortar rounds!!!! 60mm?

[@durwoodhill2798]

I will definitely try the food carry on the bottom like you suggest; I'll just need to plan my food for the day well so I don't have to go to the bottom until the end of the day. One thing I do differently is use my sleeping pad to provide some structure and padding to my frameless pack (I realize your pack has the carbon stays so not as important). I fold the pad into a flat rectangle and place it inside the pack flat against the backside, that way it adds some rigidity to the frameless pack as well as inside cushion from things that might press against my back. Additionally I have a tent similar to yours (ZPacks Altaplex), which I put in the netting outside the pack. I used to cram it in lose in the bottom of my pack (because it was rarely needed until the end of the day) but after a rainy night it would still be somewhat wet upon packing it, so I was putting water inside my pack. While I keep my sleeping bag, clothes, electronics, etc inside of a large waterproof bag (similar to you) I didn't like the idea of putting water inside of my pack. I like doing things the same way every time and didn't like packing the tent inside when dry and outside when wet. For that reason I now roll it up tight, put it in a dyneema tent sack and store it in an outside pocket. I find your videos so helpful, you've helped me be a lighter more efficient hiker so THANK YOU!!

[@MattShafter]

I meant to add the inflatable pad backpad trick! Thanks DH!!!

[@HikeRx]

I've been there. I am a pharmacist, PharmD. Going through a DPT or PharmD program is incredibly time consuming and stressful. Good luck with the last part of your program. I've got major problems with my right shoulder... going through PT right now so I can get back to functional motion and backpacking.

[@MattShafter]

That dang shoulder!!! Built for motion, not for stability! Thanks HikerRx!

[@thelosttraveller4725]

Congrats on getting the exams done!!! Regards from Ireland .

[@MattShafter]

Thank you much Dani!!!

[@pgreenx]

I've got the Notch Li and keep it outside on the top of my pack and sometimes in a side pocket. It's lightweight and I can get away with a smaller pack so I down have to keep it vertical inside. Worth trying....

[@MattShafter]

Oooooh I tried the Aeon in the side pockets but my 2016 KS40 pockets aren't having it!!

[@poppy3215]

I've always done the first in, last out method, but I am totally stealing the center of mass behind the belly button food thing. Very smart.

[@MattShafter]

That way works too!! I really split hairs sometimes!

[@Mr.GoodKat57]

I have no backpacking experience, and have always wondered about this. That said, I am still skeptical and will need to try it for myself. I would imagine a persons body type and hiking posture also play a role here. Packing like this moves the center of mass of the pack lower and closer to your center of gravity. But in theory, it also moves it further rearward and farther back from your center of gravity. The idea being that, while hiking you are leaning slightly forward, so the further up the center of mass is, the further forward it will be, over your hips. So there is a trade off either way. With your way, I suspect you'd have to lean slightly more forward in your hiking posture, but you would be more stable. Great video!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks!!!!

[@wellseasonedhiker]

100% agree. I don't think body posture while walking is being fully baked in here. Heaviest weight, given hiking position l, should be right next to your back and between the shoulders. This centers the weight over your hips and legs while hiking. I would stick with your instincts here.

[@jpriddle]

First pandemics, now food first? Next you’ll try to tell me the world is round. Seriously though, this is intriguing. I have several questions! 1. Does the food get hot right next to your back? Any troubles with melting? 2. Packing the tent before pack liner, what do you do when you have to pack up in the rain? Wouldn’t your quilt and clothes get wet? 3. Nope. Just those two. Thanks!

[@MattShafter]

1) No hot food! My external CCF pad is insulating 2) If it's pouring rain then the tent is just gonna ride on the outside until the rain goes away! 3) The world is FLAT!!!!! lol

[@GregFeeneyPoker]

Nice vid Matt. Short and to the point without too much bravado. You are definitely one of the ULers I wish would produce more content. I recently got a KS40. I like it a lot but the one issue I have had is the J straps. I'm a big dude and I'm not sure they are going to cut it. I much prefer the S straps on my MLD Prophet. The main reason I am experimenting with the KS40 is that I live near-ish to great desert hiking and the stays would be a big help for big water hauls. In BB last November there was a point I had to carry 7L. Didn't feel too good in the Prophet despite having a BW below 10.

[@MattShafter]

Ahhhhhh! 14lbs of water! I'm not sure a KS can do that. Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying to do more. I counted the other day and my idea list has grown to over 100 video ideas. Doesn't even count trip vids or new products that are worth reviewing!

[@davidoakes7782]

Very interesting. I just ordered my first frameless pack, Palante V2, which should be here by the weekend. I’ll be playing around with packing methods on Saturday for sure. I’ll give this a shot. Little nervous about the frameless kit, but my BW is around 8.5-9 w/o camera gear and like 10.5 w/ it. I figure my HMG 3400 is massive overkill for most of my trips, and it’s time to give frameless a serious shot. I came across your channel a few weeks ago, really good stuff man. I like your perspective 🤙

[@MattShafter]

Give your shoulders time to adapt. They will get used to the extra weight but you gotta give it some time! Thanks!

[@davidoakes7782]

MattShafter I’ll definitely keep that in mind! I landed a permit for the Enchantments in July, and I want to be as dialed in as I can be. I have a lot of small trips planned in the coming weeks to see if I need to change anything in my kit.

[@GhostlyPiano44]

Also that is usually how I pack my 20liter pack when I'm doing more than 4 days of food on a thru! So kudos!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks!

[@stephenegli4387]

Agree...food first as it’s easier to stuff in the other stuff after☺️

[@MattShafter]

That's something I forgot to bring up. Food is more rigid, the other stuff will fill into spaces.

[@kaskorraky9473]

When I was a kid, I went camping everywhere and very often, I didn't have money to buy the cool gear, now that I have lots of money I go to REI, and own a lot of cool of gear, expensive is meaningless to me. But now, this new ultralight hiking is killing me. 🤣 cuz I came from that origin 🤣🤣

[@matthewyarbrough1056]

Yes very similar. We used to teach your method for “off trail” and the standard for on. Never made sense to me. Why not always have the most control over the weight?? Very nice

[@MattShafter]

Nice!! This way make sense to me.

[@johnschmitt3083]

You are the hikers Hiker

[@MattShafter]

I don't know about that!!! I study too much to be that, but I will soon be done!!

[@Jotipalo]

Congratulations on finishing the finals! Determination is a virtue! Nice video, as usual. Would love to see what you are considering for your video equipment. How do you edit your video now? I do all my video on an iPhone 7 and edit using LumaFusion on an iPad (but I could do it on the iPhone too). I’m looking into the iPhone SE for a hike I hope to do in 2021. I hope the SE and a battery pack might be all I need.

[@MattShafter]

I'm going all in kinda.... Almost set on a Full frame Sony A7III (thanks stimulus check!) or Fuji XT-4

[@Jotipalo]

MattShafter if TarpTent offers the Aeon Li soon, that will be my check,

[@dcaudwell]

MattShafter get the XT30 - smaller and lighter than full frame, and way more quality then you’d ever need for Instagram and YT. Although it’s not weather proofed it’s more than fine and used by many pros for outdoor use. Love the video, as usual, but I’m not sure about your spoon next to your tent stakes !?! There are plenty of soil-borne organisms that you really don’t want to be ingesting....

[@MattShafter]

@@dcaudwell I hate that there are so many good cameras.

[@GreatAmericanHikes]

I try to put food as close to my back as possible but it's usually stacked higher up on top of my quilt near the middle of the pack. I use the Aeon as well and pack my MLD Burn similarly the way you do filling the area around the tent with my down and clothes in a nylofume bag. I don't see why packing vertically is a turn off for some people. It works well. If I have to pack the Aeon last because it's raining I'll strap it to the top of my pack until I can dry it out.

[@MattShafter]

Do you love your Burn? People love that thing.

[@GreatAmericanHikes]

@@MattShafter It's my first frameless pack so I can't compare it to anything else, but yeah I dig it a lot.

[@texmexia49]

I agree totally with your weight carry recommendations. The issue I have is with a bear canister, which I always carry. I have a six moons swift v pack w/ flight vest that distributes the weight on your torso. It’s very comfortable, but you are limited to where you can carry the bear canister. For this pack, I prefer carrying it inside the pack and above everything else except for my rain gear/stove and fleece shirt. My total pack weight is 25# for five days though, so I’m good with that.

[@MattShafter]

I like those packs that let you put more weight up front!

[@texmexia49]

@@MattShafter I have to say I love having all those pockets up front. It’s so easy to get to my phone, bug net, headlamp, chapstick, glide, snacks, and more.😁

[@MattShafter]

@@texmexia49 It's all about finding your own system! Good stuff.

[@bryanm4016]

Dude, I got so excited when you said you were gonna do trail videos. Your intro video is so captivating. On a side note, my center of mass is below my bellybutton eh?!? You sayin I’m fat!?! Jk, I loved the physics chat, I have never heard anyone use the center of mass argument before, definitely food for thought. Best of luck on clinicals!!!!

[@MattShafter]

Thanks Bryan. I think my video's might be pretty chill. More along the lines of this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/omS2Zmx7m7mZhpI Anything else just gets too complicated to find the proper music, and the editing gets HELLACIOUS. What do you think of that hiking video?

[@bryanm4016]

MattShafter wow, I have watched several of his videos but that was my first trail video of his. Wow. This guy is good. I’d be curious what equipment he brings to get those shots with that quality. I’m sure he has a video on it, I will have to dig for it. The things I loved were obviously the big shots with the drone. I love the scale it gives you and really can capture the immensity of the landscape that a lot of us love. It’s also nice to play with scale, the huge landscape followed up by a closeup of some lichen or something. I also loved the ASMR. Who knew the sound of an orange being halved and quartered would sound so refreshing. I wouldn’t go overboard with it, but a little here and there is nice. Man, I don’t know about you, but after watching that, I really really want to do that trail!

[@bryanm4016]

MattShafter loved the music too. The one critique I would have is perhaps a little more dialogue. I like to see the individuals personality come thru some more. And we all love the Shafter sense of humor. “I have a box of gear.” Or the the numerous other funny asides 😂

[@michaelharris4503]

Thank you for turning me on to this filmmaker. Very serene video. I’ve done the Camino de Santiago 2x and love all things Spain. I had heard of the Picos de Espana but never knew what to expect. gorgeous! Regarding the film audio ...I say if you have something to add to a video, speak, otherwise let the filmmaking speak for itself... plus some people can be super creative but have nothing to say. ...

[@bryanm4016]

@@michaelharris4503 thats true, i've watched a lot more of his videos and I now I kind of prefer the silence. Funny how it grew on me.

[@ricjorge9623]

TOTALLY!! I've seen so many people recommending that most weight should be kept near the center of the pack. Never made sense to me for the exact reasons you pointed out. Also, i only start cooking after i've set up camp, so I end up taking out my tent before i take out my food. Thanks for the video, i feel vindicated.

[@MattShafter]

Hahahah It works for me. The other ways work too!

[@adopancia7445]

Hi, nice video! My question is: I trust your suggestions and noticing you use a Aeon Li and I am really interested in that shelter... do you suggest it or you have any caveat about it? Thanks in advance for any note about it. Cheers from Italy.

[@MattShafter]

I would recommend it yes! As long as you are under 191cm. On trips with extended it rain, it would be nice to have more room, but I don't usually hike in those areas. If you are in hot and humid conditions I would recommend a shelter with two doors for cross ventilation. Cheers!

[@adopancia7445]

MattShafter Got it, thanks, I’m 179cm so I guess plenty of foot/head room. I would use it in the Alps in spring/summer, so quite breezy and dry conditions, for other seasons/places I have other shelters, so my question was regarding “ideal” hiking condition, and you gave me a reply. Thanks!

[@tuomasd]

What about packing your stuff if it's raining outside? I think you posted on reddit that it is possible to pack the aeon horizontally. I mainly do bikepacking and I try to pack everything small and heavy in the frame bag so the center of mass is as low and centered as possible to have the smallest impact on handling. Light but voluminous gear goes in the saddle and handlebar bags.

[@MattShafter]

If it's raining hard then the tent will just ride up top until sky water stops happening! I bet you're awesome at packing that bike!

[@tuomasd]

@@MattShafter They don't call me Master Packer for no reason! I've been getting into the DIY game in bike bags as most of the commercial options are often not exactly UL but are UE (ultraexpensive). Maybe I'll post on /ultralight once my set of bags is finished as it should be considerably lighter than any commercial set of bags I have seen so far.

[@lukejarvie4082]

Trying to decide if I should pick up an aeon li. How would you handle a BV450 with this setup?

[@MattShafter]

With a bear can this will have to ride outside somewhere! If you're not bushwacking I would go for it.

[@greygardens81]

I don't need to watch your videos. I just miss you.

[@MattShafter]

We'll be neighbors soon enough!!!

[@keithlaurenz3774]

I prefer to pack up my bag in the order from where it is around me in the tent. I wake up, make my breakfast from the vestibule and warm in my sleeping bag. Once I'm done, i pack away my sleeping pad and bag, then my clothes, then my tent, then my food. All these items pack flat or sideways and not vertical (something I dislike about tarptent UL tents). My food staying at the top doesn't really impact the lever arm of the load of the my pack. The pack is low profile off my back in the first place and provides a huge amount of convenience when getting at my food for lunch or snacks along the way. Some people separate their food for the day in their front pocket but backpacking should be easy... and that's just an extra annoying step I hate doing. With a light pack, I want minimal effort on trail, but also packing up before I leave and every morning on the trip.

[@sinfonianbarelytone9191]

Hey Matt, you must be much better at stuffing your quilt than I am. My two quilts take up 5 times the space yours did. They fill 60% of my "50L" pack. Weigh nothing. I'll try putting the food lower. Like the idea. Mine ends up in the small of my back. Not bad but you make sense. Thanks for sharing and good luck with your insane school work. Rooting for you.

[@MattShafter]

Thanks SB!!! 2 quilts? You hammock camp?

[@sinfonianbarelytone9191]

@@MattShafter Sorry yes. Forgot to mention that. Makes for a full pack with 20⁰ quilts.

[@romansokolov6893]

Interesting idea about food. The only problem is when you carry bulky foods lets say fruits or something less shapeless than rice but I will try this setup with MLD Burn. The result should be interesting!

[@MattShafter]

Yes, remember to padding down there, and you're right, odd shapes may even still poke through.

[@romansokolov6893]

@@MattShafter I was wondering if I have pronounced s-shape of mine spine how comfortable KS-40 would be? Because as I look at the pack I don't see any curvatures..

[@MattShafter]

@@romansokolov6893 "Normal" is variable when it come to your upper back curve and lower back curve. If you have two normal but two considerable curves, you may be better with a frame with a curve.

[@johnschmitt3083]

Regarding Fanny Packs, what advantage does a Fanny Pack give you over all these new running belts? The UD Mountain Belt is designed for the back so it might interfere with your backpack but the design and functions feels much superior to a fanny pack.

[@MattShafter]

Well I wouldn't go running with a fanny pack because it would bounce too much if it's like a normal fanny pack. Those belts are good as long as you don't overstuff them and if they're not too tight around the stomach. If they're too tight it will make it harder to breathe.

[@janefreeman4121]

I just usually end up putting my tent in the outer mesh. Its usually dewy and just having it handy to dry out at a lunch break also the idea of putting something wet in my pack....

[@MattShafter]

Heck ya JF!

[@CarryOnRTW]

Yep, my tent (well half of it, fly or inner) goes in one of my NUL Sundown side pockets for the same reason. I share the weight of our Lanshan2 between me and the missus who always accompanies me.

[@woodchip2782]

My question is rather a comment. Comparing your putting food inside the pack, straight at the bottom, I put my food outside the pack at the top close to the back of my head where I would put a bear can. I agree with the weight partitioning you suggest, it’s absolutely logical. My reason for doing the opposite is rodent attacks, I find that opsacks are not sufficient enough to prevent food smells permeating all through my equipment. Am I right or not? I’m not looking for trouble just for a better solution. Thanks for your insights!

[@MattShafter]

I actually sleep with my opsak under my feet, often inside my back pack. No rodents in there yet!

[@Jesuisdehors-dw7ny]

I love the way you pack your bag, but what is your alternative when it's raining (and then, you have to pack your stuff inside the tent, and then to pack the tent last)? Thanks!

[@MattShafter]

Good question. A wet tent would likely ride up top on the outside, with me hoping to to air it out when the sun comes out. Where I live its not common to have set in rain.

[@natedog45678]

You'll be making a big brain move with a fanny, i use my fanny as my ditty bag and my next snack bag since it has a top pouch and a front lower pouch

[@MattShafter]

Looking forward to it!

[@suecox8355]

With a very short torso, the heavy things need to be at bottom. If I pack with sleeping bag at bottom then the heavy thing is too high up my back making bag unstable.

[@MattShafter]

Yes, I think it makes sense for tall people too! Had a few people report back this worked well for them too!

[@Cale_Davison]

Excellent discussions here. Many years of research and experience have led to some conclusions, all of which are mentioned partially by several folks commenting here... there is one question that is unanswered, and I'm looking for someone who could help solve it. Do you know about the center that gymnasts and martial artists use? The goal is to distribute weight so that it rides the so-called dan tian. All working people of the past used it; hikers should, too. The swagmen of Australia careied a food bag over the chest and a blanket roll near the waist, connected, to distribute weight front-to-back. 20% up front, from what I've heard. 20/80; 30/70, 40/60; ..? There's the question. Does physics or calculus offer a solutuon?

[@alexhonken]

damn, those finished seams on the ks40 look swanky as hell. my atom+ has exposed bits on the inside that can tear my stuff if I'm not being careful. and holy shit there's so much space left in that front pocket. damn. now I need a ks40.

[@MattShafter]

It can tear things? Is it a VX21 pack? Most people content the swanky grosgrain is merely cosmetic. @samsmith may have more info.

[@alexhonken]

@@MattShafter oops, i didn't realize i had left multiple comments on your videos lol. i lose track of things when I'm obsessing. there are a few pieces of harder reinforcement material where the top strap / shoulder straps connect that poke through to the inside of the pack that ripped my older quilt. the pack itself is 210 robic

[@chrisc.3472]

Matt, you are standing your food bag up in your pack?

[@MattShafter]

Yes, so it hugs the low back. I explained that like crap.

[@betsybarbera9806]

Why not keep the spoon in the food bag? Just curious. I even keep my toothbrush/toothpaste in my food bag b/c I'm going to brush after I eat.

[@MattShafter]

Good question! The quart size bag I keep the hiking days food in is often pretty cramped. The spoon won't fit in there. It can ride anywhere though!

[@oldenn1]

Bought KS 40 on your reconmendation... zpack duplex and thermarest neo air... but no way can I pack all my thru hike gear and have ANY room left at all...and still at 6.88kg - love the vids !!

[@MattShafter]

Ooooo yeh. 6.88kg/15lbs is too much base weight to put into a 40L. Thank you Nigel!

[@BrianWoodruff-Jr]

What's a "diddy" or "ditty" item?

[@MattShafter]

Its an itty bitty item, that goes into a ditty.

[@thexitto]

The channel could be called MattSmarter :p

[@camojoe83]

To be fair, that mushy, formless sock you call a backpack probably doesn't carry as well as a framed pack when loaded like a framed pack. For normally shaped people, loading the bottom of the pack heavier forces you into a more vertical stance and puts more pull on the front of your body from fighting against it. Why dont you consider the addition of the pack to a body when calculating 'center of gravity'? Seems like you should, since it affects how much the upper half of your body weighs. I mean, unless you're shaped like a bowling pin.

[@MattShafter]

Ehhhh the KS40 has frame stays and the external pad pockets fits 1/2in of padding. That keeps the bag vertical and cush! It's not like a full ass 70L frame though ;) The more popular method puts the food higher (as high as T5 level?) and more posteriorly because the food is loaded at the whole level. So the heaviest part of the load is higher and pushed further back. Sounds more tippy to me.

[@urs7288]

Hi Matt, great work - is there a possibility to pm you? I think I have a comment video-maker to video-maker that needs not be posted publicly. Keep the good work up, Cheers, Urs

[@MattShafter]

Sure! Message me here or on IG! @mattshafter

[@tsalesto]

I like your system. Your point about center mass is spot on. A couple notes that I made: "small for a 40 l backpack" what? you mean advertised as 40 l but being smaller? I would not pack the sleeping pad into the waterproof liner (it does not really need to be kept dry, it will dry fast as it does not absorb much moisture), instead I'd use it to close up the bag, by rolling the mouth of bag around the pad (which could also keep the pad dry from a few drops that might leak into the backpack)

[@MattShafter]

There's no standard or how to measure pack volume, so you'll have manufacturers calling 3 packs 40L, but they're noticeably different!

[@tomnoyb8301]

Principles: 1) Back is "S"-shape. 2) "Lever-arm" adds roughly 5% extra shoulder force for weight every inch away from the body (laterally away from Center-Mass vertical line). Lesson - dense items close to body. 3) The spot just above your butt has a ledge (of the S-curve) that supports weight naturally. Other locations, weight must be supported by straps (shoulder or waist). Lesson - use that nook above the butt to max-advantage. 4) That nook above the butt, like all locations in contact with the back, should be smooth as possible. (more...) Lesson - If at least one side of the food-bag is smooth, face it toward your back. If not, select the next most dense smooth item for that butt-ledge location? 5) Food-bags contain dense and less-dense items. Packing food-bag with dense smooth items on the side toward your back is also worth it. 6) Roll all rollables into long, thin items so they stack side-by-side, rather than piling one upon another. That way, many more items can be reached without dumping the whole pack. 7) Hair Scrunchies may be Kam-snapped to most rollable items to facilitate #6 eliminating the need to keep track of scrunchies. 8) Purchase only waterproof packs and carry a nyloflume bag for emergencies only (e.g. leaking pack). Internal bags only waste space and reduce down fill capacity. Corollary To: #1 Buy a pack sewn to an S-shape. Aluminum-stays or frames are far less effective than sewn S-curves. Only LiteAF currently sells a sewn S-curve pack at this time. #2 Using a foam-pad between you and your pack adds a lot of force against shoulders. Recommend against it.

[@MattShafter]

Good stuff!

[@legoman07219]

"Chungus ass backpack" ahahahahaha yes

[@MattShafter]

It really be like that sometimes! COVID is making me weak!!

[@bg26892]

another flawless victory by shafter (no down votes).

[@MattShafter]

LOL it's a sport!

[@theworldwelivein482]

Not your expertise but would you make a heavy Bug out Bag? I would love to see your extended travel bag.

[@MattShafter]

People love them bug out bags

[@theworldwelivein482]

@@MattShafter They really think it will help. I sure would love to see your thoughts on the matter. What would you pack if no resupply?

[@Coreycry]

10 pounds of rice and 4 pounds of "granola" type food for 5 days? I never ate rice on trail because of the fuel requirement but isn't it a lot? I would imagine going easily 10 days with that, anyone thoughts is appreciated I want to trek 14 days for the first time no idea how much food i'll take

[@woodchip2782]

Coreycry Agreed with the fuel requirements, cooking rice but you can do it home and dehydrate it.

[@realfakehiker7714]

That’s not the food he would actually take with him. Those are just placeholders to easily illustrate the volume of the actual food he would take. 0:45

[@MattShafter]

Correct!!! That was just to show volume. I carry normal food!

[@lyndseygolden7546]

Oh good I was like how on earth are you making all that rice work for you? But I do have questions on lighter food that provides more than dehydrated carbs and doesn’t weigh a gazzilion lbs if you have any go tos you’d like to share.

[@wellseasonedhiker]

I guess to each his own. I would not recommend this for those first starting their backpacking journey.

[@MattShafter]

Why? All I’m doing is putting food against the low back.

[@wellseasonedhiker]

@@MattShafter I'd argue that, after more than 50 years of packing backpacks, most hikers have a tendency to lean forward, particularly when going uphill. Having the weight low like that translates into a need to lean slightly more forward which could cause needless fatigue. Even worse, when cross country hiking (thinking talus chutes in the Sierra) that low weight will have a tendency to pull you backwards which can be dangerous. I totally appreciate that everyone is different and recognize that this has worked well for you. I just wouldn't recommend it for someone starting out. My recommendation is to put a sleeping bag or other light items on the bottom of the pack and get that food up a bit higher - right against the back and at the bottom of the shoulder blades. This centers the weight over your hips when leaning a bit forward. Just my two cents.

[@NavyDoc0884]

More fake news! A wet tent is never going that deep into my pack. Neither would a dry one - especially if I need to set up in the rain. With that KS pack, you can get it with a cargo style pocket that would totally fit your chosen shelter in it. What I do (but HYOH) is keep my shelter (an MLD Solomid XL with inner) outside of my pack (a KS50 or SWD 40 depending on the trip) in the mesh pocket for this reason. I cannot tell you how many times I've been forced to quickly pop a tent due to incoming rain while hiking in places from Colorado to California to the Carolinas and I do not want to be digging into my pack when this happens.

[@MattShafter]

LOL Cody. Fear not, when it's a wet day the tent will ride on the outside, ready for a chance to dry it out in the sun. As you saw, a dry tent can fit just fine. Why pop a tent due to incoming rain, that's what your rain gear is for? I especially don't want 0.51DCF exposed to day time hail dumps.

[@NavyDoc0884]

@@MattShafter C'mon, man. Waiting out one of those Colorado afternoon hit and run monsoons that last only an hour or 2 at best > hiking in wet shoes, everything getting wet. Sometimes you just have to decide enough is enough. If it's all day rain that isn't avoidable that's when the rain gear comes out. Also, hail has been nooo problemo for 0.75 DCF, and I once rode out a righteous hailstorm in a 0.5 Zpacks Duplex.

[@MattShafter]

@@NavyDoc0884 Yeh, I guess I just do it differently. Sorry that's fake news. Let me know if you find anything good on Breitbart.com. lol

[@hair2050]

One word. “TIGHT” 😬

[@MattShafter]

YEsssssss

[@GjPeddy]

Literally EVERYONE recommends to keep food against your back, you're certainly not the first. But in most packs, where the hip belt actually goes across the hips, you wanna put lighter stuff at the bottom because that would be just above your butt, lower than your centre of gravity, and you wanna have the food on top of that. That's why Skurka, REI, NOLS, etc. all recommend this. Now, if the pack is smaller and the bottom corresponds to roughly your belly button, then sure, food at the bottom is good. Food above a sleeping bag is still good in a small pack anyway, though. Sorry if I sounded aggressive, I just feel like you could have been a bit more "humble" in the way you presented the information..

[@MattShafter]

As I said, COM for most is below the belly button (approx 4in,) at Sacral level two, so the popular sleeping bag first loading methods are not lower than most peoples COM. The popular methods also put food in a bag as if it was a big cake (go see Darwin On The Trails latest packing video.) Yes some of that food mass is at the back, but it's pretty high and displaced posteriorly. These points and the fact that I put the food in first is all I meant by "no one else does what I do." I'll be more careful in the future to explain it!

[@GjPeddy]

@@MattShafter Ok that makes more sense.. sorry if I was harsh! I'll try your method myself

[@jacobfreed5060]

MattShafter You weren’t too aggressive at all, just direct in getting your information out. People are just overly sensitive and like to whine about everything these days.

[@sarahbaniewcz3802]

You ever heard of zit cream for that big fat zit on your nose?

[@MattShafter]

I can't use any zit cream because you bought it all!!!

[@sarahbaniewcz3802]

@@MattShafter yeah with your credit card

[@MattShafter]

@@sarahbaniewcz3802

[@markcummings6856]

Good call. Like the stupid water bottles on shoulder straps SMH.

[@jhonyermo]

Not too bright are you?

[@markcummings6856]

Jhon Adam Oh, I’m bright and smart. How about yourself?

[@HikeRx]

Why is it stupid to have a water bottle on your shoulder strap if the water is more accessible there?

[@markcummings6856]

HikeRx Just my opinion, but I would love to come across a specific study to this. But similar to Matt’s point of center of gravity. Imagine 2.2 -5.5 pounds of water weight high, forward, all away (vertical/horizontal) from the body’s center of gravity. Doesn’t make sense. YMMV

[@gwmtnbiker]

@@markcummings6856 ​ Water on the front actually serves as a "counter balance." Some pack companies are beginning to emerge with very large pockets on the straps to to create a push-pull dynamic. Heavy water on the front strap is more logical than heavy water added to the lower outside portion of the pack. Especially when you need more than two liters.

[@SydneyReader]

I'm going to try this in my V2 if the world ever reopens. It makes a full opsak fit much better. I'm an engineer so you had me at center of mass.

[@MattShafter]

Yeh! Just make sure you get some padding on the low back. This way makes some sense to me. The food and my body both have a separate COM, so when I combine the two for a new COM, might as well have them connected as close to their original COM's. Let me know how it works. Works well in my V2.