Battlestar Galactica | Gaius On Truth Serum

[@shaftoe195]

Baltar's personal motto: "mistakes were made".

[@usul573]

It wasn't me. It wasn't me. It wasn't me.

[@KamalaChameleon]

Gaius Baltar's character arc was absolutely brilliant. Instead of the corny guy on a throne shtick of the 70s version, this Baltar was deeply integrated into the storyline and very conflicted about the role he played in the human extinction event at the hand of the Cylons. One of TVs best-written characters!

[@richardtaylor1652]

He is right up there with London Mollari in my book. Both superbly written and acted characters with endlessly fascinating character arcs.

[@pablom-f8762]

"I used to be a farmer, you know..."

[@mikecimerian6913]

He wasn't the first one to be duped by a female spy and the net was finely tuned to exploit his flaws. From a moral stand point probably half of the fleet's people would have fallen for the trap. Judging him henceforth is like beating a dead horse.

[@mikecimerian6913]

@@richardtaylor1652 As tragic figures, agreed. Compared to Londo, Baltar is an innocent. So many great sci-fi novels waiting for an honest shot at a movie. Big fan of Louie Wu and Miles Vorkosigan. Less dramatic but deep wells of possibilities. (Vor Game, Known Universe Series)

[@robluck21]

What's so brilliant about duplicity, treachery, dishonesty, and criminality?

[@stupidburp]

Tortured by Cylons, tortured by humans, tortured by himself.

[@Infernal460]

@Eric Cartman Does not repesent god in a positive light.

[@markgalura2891]

Like Kanye West

[@N7-WAR-HOUND]

Infernal460 god is a force of nature. Nether good nor evil

[@looper2586]

@@N7-WAR-HOUND No no, only good. Evil is a man-made concept to escape his own turning against life.

[@atheos.1383]

@@looper2586 Good is a man-made concept as well is the point. Both good and evil are constructs of man. If a god does exist, it would definitely be a force of nature rather than good or evil. Bone cancer in children proves he isn't what we call good, if we are referring to a real world analog of a god, especially the Christian God. The Christian God would definitely fall into mankind's view of evil, far before he would be considered good. Regardless, the force of nature aspect viewed by this show is the best representation for any fictional god.

[@airplanemaster1]

Compared to the '78 Baltar who willingly sacrificed the Colonies for personal gain, 2004 Baltar was a pawn to the Cylons, both willingly and unwillingly.

[@simonfrederiksen104]

We are all but genitalia to the Gods, they play with us for their sport.

[@ZzMattizZ]

@@simonfrederiksen104 Lmao great analogy

[@simonfrederiksen104]

@@ZzMattizZ I'm afraid I can't take credit for it, I heard a very similar line in an episode of Blackadder. Even if you were to twist my nipples - very hard - I couldn't tell you which episode.

[@Hunpecked]

@@simonfrederiksen104 Originally from Shakespeare: As flies to wanton boys are we to th' gods, They kill us for their sport. www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/flies-wanton-boys-we-gods

[@robertlavallee591]

There is no doubt that Baltar has weaknesses,he's a brilliant person,it seems to come with that kind of personality,arrogance,vanity,etc,but he never wished to see the colonies destroyed,there was no intent,he made a mistake because of his weakness to a woman/Cylon,he didn't know she was a Cylon but she had a power over him by using his weaknesses to her advantage,we all make terrible mistakes,sometimes people die because of them,but it was never his intention that the colonies should be destroyed.

[@davemarx7856]

Admiral Adama - Wielder of Flashlights, Destroyer of Toasters

[@Swarm509]

Jesus that is some amazing acting. That could not of been easy... both on the table and in the water.

[@richardtaylor1652]

James Callis really just took the ball and ran with it playing Gaius Baltar.

[@Gaeilgeoir]

...could not *have* been easy.

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

*Accidentally allows the Cylons to commit Genocide on humanity* "Mistakes were made"

[@andrewmarshall4604]

no sense looking back - gotta move forward

[@erentheca]

To be fair, it wasn't his incredibly stupid decision to create such a devastating system vulnerability.

[@usul573]

Though seriously, if you're under crazy drugs you might say all sorts of stuff. None of it would be admissible in any court worth a damn. Edit: I suppose Adama is more trying to get extra info out of Gaius but Roslin does want to hear him admit guilt.

[@TheBlackB0X]

"Some people did something" A Gaius among us.

[@lgmmrm]

"Mistakes were made-" "By you" "-and as a result of bad decisions-" "By You." "-a massive price was paid." "By us."

[@usul573]

I actually love watching Gaius go through all of this. No matter how much stress, no matter what mind games, no matter what they throw at him he stands quite firm. Denial, deflection, and silence.

[@defiante1]

He isn't wrong, his origional crime on the coloniels... wasn't conspiracy it was ignorance. A crime everyone was guilty of. No one knew Cylons looked like people. He wasn't denying it, he said honestly that conspiracy requires intent, he never intended planned or even dreamed of what would happen.

[@atheos.1383]

@@defiante1 Exactly. He couldn't lie or deny anything in his state here anyway. He was just being as honest as he possibly could, from his own perspective. His perspective takes into account that he was definitely a victim to an extent.

[@reactions5783]

​@@defiante1 Pride, arrogance and complacency. But not malice, intention or conspiracy.

[@Autonomous15]

@@reactions5783 Roslin was quite arrogant as well.

[@glouconx983]

No defense system worthy of the name would be left so vulnerable to the whims of one person, even if that person is the genius scientist who helped to build it. Therefore, one person alone is not responsible, society as a whole is and deserves its self-inflicted fate.

[@davidlewis5312]

well the base code would be valuable to a cybernetic race. And he did have the base code, I don't fault him as hard for that error as several of his others involving New Caprica. I don't hate Baltar, but I do resent him having one of the more positive ending

[@printezstroman]

@@davidlewis5312 Any credible government would've demanded failsafes and security measures if they were going to use a network for national security.

[@dandyjandon4231]

agreed , in fact I had a bad taste for the human flaw to always want to blame one person for everything. It sucks but without spoilers no one is impervious to the cylon manipulation even when they find out they could look like them. They've done real studies about AI that doesnt' even look human able to manipulate humans to let it out into the world even knowing it is locked up to protect humans.

[@mitchellmelkin4078]

Gloucon X, He admitted that what he was doing would get him killed, if it were discovered. He provided an advantage that he inherently knew was wrong, no, criminal, to act on. The fact the impact of that advantage was immeasurably greater than what he had envisioned getting away with, was irrelevant. He was fully aware of betraying the trust that had been granted him. Period.

[@kinbolluck476]

Bruh video gAME PENTSGON HSXORS BRUH

[@benjjerman]

Just a brilliant scene showing the tortured confused and conniving nature of Gaius Baltar. Such a well developed character

[@splatoonistproductions5345]

Man that’s some quality acting and damn it’s scary

[@0623kaboom]

worse ... the interrogation is pretty accurate to vietnam era style but with better medicals to make things easier

[@Kalenz1234]

I really really really wanted Gaius to scream THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!

[@TheKaiTetley]

Kalenz. Star Trek:TNG

[@michaelidarecis]

He would have stolen Picard's thunder

[@CieJe.Alexander]

That would have been frakkn' awesome!

[@usul573]

That is more of an Orwellian, 1984 situation, not interrogation like this.

[@chrisalister2297]

Good one.

[@robertstover4665]

I loved the last episode of the series where Baltar came to grips with his past (his dirt poor farmer dad)... That last episode was one of the best series endings!

[@Cheezeblade]

Lol. One of the cylon children was wearing an eye patch... foreshadowing

[@sebastienrameau]

Nonsense. That scene takes place AFTER Saul's lose. Not a foreshadowing.

[@AdmiralOctopus]

@@sebastienrameau I think they meant foreshadowing that Saul is a Cylon.

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

The other side of the Old Man no one really wanted to see...

[@alexh3974]

the old man no one wanted to see but needed

[@MerrimanDevonshire]

'Tis true

They had to put some torture in the show to appeal to the fatmerican audience.

[@mikecimerian6913]

He worked in intelligence and the Cylons were but one of their concerns when we extend their missions to all the colonies and their intricate power-plays. He did worse during dark ops. They don't have time and imperatives dictate the tone, he is the Command figure of the fleet and Baltar is already intimidated by him. Their drugs are powerful, he just has to push and he does it in a clinical manner. The president and witnesses are there, they all need to be convinced. It can save Baltar from execution as well as damn him. This process can prove innocence as well as guilt which adds a nuance when we compare this to other means of duress.

[@stevenp3176]

Seán O'Nilbud Yes that’s it.

[@NestorCaster]

This show’s brilliance comes, in part, from the fact that the entire story was manipulated by this greater force, which used Head Six and Head Baltar-- and no one else other than Caprica Six and Baltar knew they existed… even here… the Head Six is legitimately interfering with Adama’s and Roslin’s attempts to use these extreme interrogation techniques to get everything from Baltar… And she only allows Baltar to tell enough coherent truth to save his life again… cuz Adama was going to kill him, even when finding out that HE WASN’T a traitor on the initial attacks on the colonies. And I honestly loved the twist that the moment Caprica was reborn the first time after the attacks, she started to see Head Baltar for the entire series-- just like Baltar did with his “head” version of her. Those two and the entity they worked-- seems to have been implied that they were surrogates for the creators of the show.

[@rvaughan74]

I had a theory back when the show was first coming out that the Head Six and Head Baltar were a side-effect of a Download happening so close to a Nuke going off. So they were literally in each others heads.

[@Sintheticlikwid]

@@rvaughan74 this is what i thought as well

[@Hunpecked]

@NestorCaster I have the opposite view of the show's "brilliance". 1) Yes, yes, we know that TV characters' speech, actions, and fates are preordained by the writers, but it breaks immersion (for me, anyway) to have it shoved in my face. It doesn't help that the show's guiding supernatural entity of cosmic power has the intelligence of your average teleplay writer. I found the constant Head 6/Head Baltar interludes utterly tedious. 2) I consider the "Deus ex Machina" plot device the epitome of lazy writing, and this show was the very embodiment of the trope. While the series had its moments, overall it left a bad taste in my mouth, figuratively speaking.

[@aaronfreeman5865]

It's a series that once I watched it I hated the ending. Then thought about and it's not the writers fault. From the first episode it said she's an angel, god has a plan for gaius and god is doing everything. Anytime people veer off his plan or guidance things get bad. It was right there over and over again with proof gaius wasn't actually crazy. Everyone just thought he was

[@C0MMANDERnCHIEF]

Best show ever...

[@reactions5783]

I was actually quite surprised to learn that some people hated Gaius Baltar ... I saw him as the unrecognized and underappreciated hero of the whole story.

[@TheWildmanden]

I remember someone i knew once saying that to him, Baltar was the most human of everyone in the series. Baltar always knew what the right thing to do was, but cowardice, selfinterest and selfdoubt more often than not caused him to make the wrong choices. But even so, he would on occasion do the right thing. To me, Baltar is not a hero, but he might very well be the sort of person most of us would become under the circumstances

[@davidlewis5312]

didn't he knowingly and fully aware give a nuclear bomb to a 6 operative that he was getting horny with (the poor damaged bitch who was off Pegasus, I admit it was hard not to sympathize a little with her) who celebrated his election detonated it among the fleet.

[@printezstroman]

@@TheWildmanden That doesn't make him more or less human unless you perceive those to be specific human qualities. He's just a weak human that, despite his gifts, constantly gives in to his base desires. As Caprica 6 said, she was always waiting for a reason to be proud of him.

[@Kalenz1234]

There is good hate and bad hate for characters. I hated joffrey in GoT but I'd miss him if he wasn't in the show.

[@BDaMonkey]

I love him. James Callis is excellent. He's brilliantly written. And his arc ends up with him learning the most simple life lesson that completely eluded him to that point.

[@FrankBisonoMDC]

This scene makes me cry every time. Being human is so devastating. We are both good and evil. And we struggle to recognize who we really want to be. What we really want to be, for ourselves and for others.

[@mirG]

This show was so good.

[@alierensevinc7553]

I'm so glad for this youtube channel

[@info_fox]

Excellent acting and story telling.

[@SilentReflection101]

No more mister nice Gaius.

[@retro2783]

James Callis was the best actor on the show by a mile.

[@vgernyc]

What about where the Cylons torture him and Head Six “helps” him cope

[@scarter9447]

What were Gaius, Trisher Hellfer and Starbuck they seemed like pawns on the chessboard of a predetermined path. Best show in history..

[@atomsmash100]

All of the actors in this series should have gone on to great things. The storylines combined with the acting was often times just incredible.

[@Rekaert]

Honestly, my favourite character in the entire series.

[@emzee1148]

She... Caprica 6... She chose me over all men. Chosen to be seduced, taken by the hand, guided between the light and the dark. But is She an angel, or is She a demon? Is She imaginary or is She real?! ...is She my own voice... or the voice of [ REDACTED ]?

[@maxtyler8993]

That isn't truth serum as much as a really horrible method of physiological torture involving hallucinogenics.

[@SyndicateOperative]

That's what truth serum is. There's no such thing as a drug that forces you to actually tell the truth, after all.

[@mkv2718]

@@SyndicateOperative false and true- the latter half is true, but the drug most often recognized as “truth serum” is sodium pentathol, which is a barbiturate, a class of drugs referred to as sedative hypnotics. They were most often used in the same way as Valium or Xanax before they were replaced due to the fact that they were really easy to overdose on. What we are seeing is more akin to the defunct CIA mind control tests referred to as MK Ultra, in which I believe this scene is a direct reference to. Part of the program involved using high quantities of LSD in an attempt to depersonalize people with the hopes that they would then be more open to suggestion, to the point of carrying out the requests of the people administering the “test.” …but our toooooootally doesn’t do stuff like that anymore. No, no, no… of course not…. Right? 😉

[@milhousevanhoutan9235]

@@SyndicateOperative Not necessarily true. The result of the MK Ultra "truth serum" projects found that one drug was very reliable in extracting high quality intelligence from targets. Good old fashioned hooch. Not LSD, not Psylocilbin, not any of the number of other cocktails they tried, but just a nice tall mysteriously refilling glass of fine Burbon and a little time.

[@scottmatheson3346]

​@@SyndicateOperative so truth serums do not exist, which means that is not a truth serum

[@xC4N4D14NB4C0Nx]

Best interrogation scene ever.

[@benscriven8935]

Adama is worryingly good at this, stunning portrayal of a great leader, but not a good person by any means

[@gasgano8255]

Anyone read the Tom Clancy novel "The Cardinal In The Kremlin"? There is a torture chapter quite similar to this one, where the suspect is sedated in a pitch-black water container. The suspect loses his/her sense of reality until he/she confesses his/her crimes. Quite likely that the writers drew inspiration from that book for this.

[@Fordo007]

I knew I recall that from somewhere else...

[@Salty_Balls]

Indeed, it was a sensory depravation tank used on Svetlana Vanayeva when they were trying to get to Misha, aka the Cardinal.

[@lionsjourney29]

@@Salty_Balls ive kinda wondered whether that was creative liberty by Tom or some of his contact buddies gave him access to old cold war files of KGB....interrogation methods. The concept was incredible and kinda terrifying on reading it

[@kinagrill]

This scene was one where I lost a total sense of respect for much of the main cast who wanted a monster to convict and sentence.... They had a flawed man that made mistakes that led to tragedy for millions if not billions of people. And he was forced upon death-threats to sign documents for the capture and execution of his fellow human beings. He isn't a villain and what they did to him was beyond inhuman. It was Monsterous. Clearly they were heroes that lived long enough to become the villains themselves.

[@flounder2760]

and yet adama was the one who cast the swing vote to free him.

[@SirMattomaton]

If you made a "mistake" that resulted in the deaths of millions, or billions. You should *expect* cruel treatment. Even from the most noble of men. It's not deliberately his fault, but it is still all his fault.

[@kinagrill]

@@SirMattomatonBut he was at gunpoint and threatened with death if he did not sign those papers, and it is not like the Cylons would have NOT killed those people anywas.

[@SyndicateOperative]

@@SirMattomaton The piece of paper was a formality. Baltar's consent changed nothing, except making him the scapegoat.

[@Hunpecked]

Baltar, in the course of committing a definite crime (of which he was fully aware), unwittingly assisted in the destruction of the Twelve Colonies. About two seasons later, he wittingly assisted in the escape of a Cylon war criminal, the death of a guard on Pegasus, the murder of Admiral Cain, and mass murder of thousands of Colonials in the explosion of nuclear warhead he gave to the Cylon. Of course in another sense he was innocent, in that all his actions were ordained by Not-God, in which case accountability flies out the window. "The writers made me do it!"😁

[@ThatBrendonGuy]

Is she an angel or is she a demon? Is she imaginary or is she real?

[@stateofopportunity1286]

I'm dating a girl who makes me feel this way. I want to walk away, but I don't know if I can.

[@SyndicateOperative]

@Delta Don't act as if being alone is better, nor that mundane people are worth dating. It's really bad advice, given that we each only have one life to live.

[@andrewnlarsen]

Why do I get the feeling that Eddie was having too much fun with this episode.

[@stonem0013]

thats nice they had a hot nurse there at least. Baltar would've appreciated that.

[@charjl96]

Damn, gotta get some truth serum. That looks intense

[@BigTylt]

char jl Inb4 someone tries this shit and dies in their sleep or stops breathing or something

[@GO-ll5tc]

Really not that different from DXM on very high doses or k-holes.

[@GO-ll5tc]

Mind you these are very tough experiences sometimes, so beware

[@stevedoggart2805]

I'M RONNY PICKERING !

[@JustAnotherGamer1982]

Truth Serum = LSD?

[@KamalaChameleon]

LSD is nothing like this...

[@oFinalSolution]

Inducing anxiety and all the other joys; powerful weapons against the uninitiated;)

[@davidhale4354]

anyone know where I can find the lulaby baltar sings while trying to hang himself

[@intheredcold9216]

What season was this?

[@BDaMonkey]

S3.

[@oatlord]

Don't remember this scene at all

[@alistairrae9807]

There is Laws Against This Kind Of Torture Adam and Roslin Took It To Far With There Vendetta

[@jeffburnham6611]

@Alistair Rae perhaps those laws exist today in some countries, we do not know about 150,000 years ago on the 12 planets of the Colonies. (Btw, you don't need to keep capitalizing every word, that's just plain annoying and there are grammar laws lol).

[@usul573]

"In 1963, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in Townsend v. Sain, that confessions produced as a result of ingestion of truth serum were "unconstitutionally coerced" and therefore inadmissible." I agree. This is torture and scientifically unreliable to get the truth. I suppose Adama figures that it's horrible, but he might get extra vital info out of Baltar. Still, it's largely unsuccessful. Since it's a TV show and there's 50,000 human left and we generally like Adama and Roslin we do kinda let them off for a lot of things.

[@bkingk8]

At the end of the day baltar needed to be punished. He was everything wrong with a man. At least for the couple of seasons I watched. If I was in the room I would not have stopped them.

[@ShimrraJamaane]

​@@usul573 Torture? Sure. Scientifically unreliable? It's more advanced tech from 150,000 years prior to the US Supreme Court even existing.

[@95DarkFire]

@@jeffburnham6611 They have a legal system comparable to ours. This cannot be legal for them.

[@missleeogilvieraygaal]

Who?

[@rikosaikawa9024]

Basketball team

[@craigcooknf]

......where can one get those drugs????...... Asking for a friend..

[@smokinggnu6584]

Is that girl drowning him at the end that one actor from GoT?

[@kennethschlegel870]

Drugged up and still maintaining his (supposedly) fake accent...

[@geodkyt]

Not *fake* so much as *affected so much it became his primary* accent.

[@mrtkeynotes7889]

Oh no, the weird doctor with an accent is gonna tell us that he is an augment

[@Phoenixesper1]

This is the one thing I hated about how guias was written as a character. in the original series guias knowingly and willingly helped in the destruction of his people for favoritism with the cylons. While I get they wanted the new baltar to have a more morally gray involvement, they went way to far and made EVERYTHING he did a "splitting hairs" mentality with him. TECHNICALLY.... was his only answer to everything. At some point, even if it was only to himself in private, he should have acknwledged his guilt in his crimes. Instead he gets absolved of everything. It really weakened his character over all to the point he was just a bad foil.

[@milhousevanhoutan9235]

He did acknowledge his guilt he wanted to be convicted and executed for them at his trial. Which is why he tried to stop Romo Lampkin from moving for a mistrial on the legitimate grounds that Admiral Adama had already predetermined his guilt, which he had as he openly stated to Lee. While Lee Adama would not answer the question of the predetermined guilt, what Baltar didn't count on was that Lee Adama would present such a compelling case re: the selective nature of the colonial justice system justice system, the president's blanket pardon (because Blanket Pardon, except Baltar is not, in fact, a blanket pardon and would be illegal if issued), and that ultimately what was being done to Baltar was not justice by any reasonable definition, that it would switch Admiral Adama's vote based on these core facts and principles of the circumstances of the case.

[@qwoijzacxoi]

FIRST!!! i am FIRST

[@charjl96]

Is this a first?

[@bhind45]

No one honestly cares, and it's about time you came to realise this.

[@charjl96]

Sadly, it's not just this guy

[@bhind45]

Quite correct you are, sadly

[@qwoijzacxoi]

bhind45 jealous someday get first too if lucky

[@robluck21]

Awful character Baltar, malevolence beyond comparison, and yet everyone bends over backward to give him a break, another chance, to "understand him". The moral lesson here is to run out and be as evil as you want and get away with it. What kind of series is this? A series that promotes vice and not virtue? Actually, it reminds me of lost in space, haha

[@usul573]

What malevolence? Despite everything, Baltar never wishes actual harm on anyone. It's more his poor judgement leads to horrible things, which he feels terrible about.

[@hyperion6902]

and as the show progresses people grow to disdain him more and more

[@mitchellmelkin4078]

robluck21, How did Lost in Space represent that kind of message?

[@robluck21]

@@mitchellmelkin4078 Good one, haha. Dr Smith after sabotaging the initial mission in a failed attempt to kill the beloved Robinson family is kept alive fed and supported throughout the series as he in almost every episode plots with villains to destroy the family. To make a story interesting we usually need a villian but it is illogical and implausible that a family would be so self distructive/ self hating that they would aid abet in their own demise. Or are we to believe they are so clueless as to the threats to their lives from this man. Dr Smith (Boltar)

[@mitchellmelkin4078]

@@robluck21, After the first season, I think Smith's schemes were increasingly focused on his own benefits, though with an indifference of how they might impact the Robinsons', not aimed specifically at their destruction. At any rate, as minimally as it played a role in the series, we know that canonically, Smith's presence on board, unequivocally saved all their lives. It's an interesting paradox, if one considers it, though I've no doubt that there was no real intention to create one. Simply a convenient plot device, written to further the conclusion of a single episode.