BATTLETECH: The Trebuchet

[@anthonyspecf]

*Somewhere in a Draconis Combine warzone* Lance Leader: "Command, we need indirect fire support!" Command: "We have a Catapult on the way" *A Catapult K2 appears* LL: "No Command, I said INDIRECT fire support!!!" C: "We hear ya Fam, sending a Trebuchet" LL:"Good, I think they get it now" *A Trebuchet 7K appears* LL: "GOD DAMN IT!"

[@demonslayer6267]

I...just found out about this variant thanks to your comment...wtf was Kurita thinking with that one

[@susiduo3438]

The k2 is quite a potent direct fire support mech tbh@@demonslayer6267

[@MrMatek13]

@@demonslayer6267 "Our logistics officers suck and we have no missiles. Again" maybe

[@a.h.1358]

@@MrMatek13”Also the Coordinator gratuitously subsidizes the PPC lobby-“

[@thefrenchbastard1646]

I hate them so mutch why does the game alway trow these at me wen i am trying to get my hands on a proper LRM support fire mech?^^

[@Iknowtoomuchable]

Ever notice how missileboats tend to be inversely proportional in size to that of the medieval weaponry they're named after?

[@keithw4920]

Waiting for the 100ton Sling assault mech with 80 LRMs

[@GnarledStaff]

@@keithw4920 "The Pebble"

[@stormsurge2103]

@@keithw4920 and the 20 ton Hwatcha

[@ironboy3245]

@@stormsurge2103 more like 60 ton

[@cheekibreeki9155]

The Longbow

[@tcuegonbear]

Man that CGL redesign did this thing some MAJOR favors. It went from being a truly hideous 'spaceballs darth vader' knock-off to being one of the better looking designs in the setting in my view. Serious upgrade.

[@NotQuiteSteele]

An overlooked bonus of the Trebby is the presence of a hand actuator. You can use this mech with raiding forces to soften defenses up before running in, grabbing what you need to grab, and running away. It can also surprisingly throw hands well with mechs up to about 45-ish tons if they happen to make it through the barrages to close range.

[@donaldcampbell3043]

Always a good mech to have backing up light units. Would often drop a med laser, for an extra ton of ammo

[@thorgarwulfson9269]

my artillery company was 4 trebuchets, 4 archers, and 2 griffons 2 rifleman for support and security. was a good task oriented company. lots of fun to play

[@boost2.041]

That's a lot of missiles lol

[@clydecraft5642]

Always need some mechs with arms to beat the shit out of anything that DOES get close right?

[@ogrehaslayers605]

Holy Toledo! That's some great fire support!

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

Mine has two batteries of LRM-carriers, because I burn easy and would rather fight in the shade.

[@bryanmcmahon7122]

Trenchbuckets are always worth their Cbills. I frequently downgrade a LRM 15 to a 10 and stack on more armor.

[@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts]

Are you referring to mw5? Because it's well known that lrm's aren't used to their full potential with AI lancemates. They'll barely engage an atlas with lrms but will gladly spam an lrm20 at a vtol warrior at the same time.

[@boost2.041]

@@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts luckily there are mods that fix the AI a bit, but I haven't tested to what extent

[@bryanmcmahon7122]

@@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts Not necessarily MW5, on the TT and MegaMek as well.

[@ironboy3245]

@@bryanmcmahon7122 not just MW5, the AI in MWO also

[@temp3608]

@@ironboy3245my poor locust getting lrm spammed cause i turned off stealth armor for 0.000001 seconds instead of the annihilator way out in the open with no nearby cover anywhere near large enough to cover the annihilator

[@DanielEastland]

In the HBS game this is the first true LRM boat you typically get. So powerful are LRMs and their ability to knock over enemy mechs, the whole tone of the game changes after acquiring a TBT. Missions that were harrowing before become a walk in the park.

[@frankfrankerson782]

Some of those early missions are bullshit where they toss 5 light mechs that have LRMs + vehicle support at you. The suicide vehicles get in LOS and then you just get pounded into the dirt.

[@carlkarnuth4581]

Fasa 3050 version bringing some serious Dark Helmet looking energy to the battlefield

[@thaipankatima658]

i just realized that catapult is the smaller version of a trebuchet in actual weapon but in Battletech, the Treb is the smaller one while the Catapult is the bigger variant. How wicked is that?

[@BigRed40TECH]

It's ironic. And irony is the root power of the universe O.O

[@raxsavvage]

what??

[@ian5395]

@@raxsavvage irony*irony=[bt]

[@randomnetsurfer]

Part of that is because the TBT is faster, and lacks jump jets. The Catapult has to use a near-equivalent engine for its slower speed (because it's 15 tons heavier) and its jump jets are a large investment (1 ton each). This is why I am reluctant to put JJ on any mech of 60-65 tons (and why the Quickdraw is so unfortunately under-armed).

[@joebyrnes9254]

I’ve seen this kind of comparison in other mechs too. Like the urban mech is kind of like the lighter version of the blackjack and the blackjack is basically the medium version of the rifleman etc all of them are walking turrets

[@braddl9442]

Marik always struggled with a sluggish economy compared to the other houses, but they could make things like this during hundreds of years of war, making trying to destroy them a risky proposition. And when you can buy several of these for the cost of 1 heavy. Yeah all its drawbacks melt away.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Uhm. Marik had the 2nd strongest economy in the Inner Sphere, consistently. It's problem was resources being squandered with corruption.

[@Flaser01]

@@BigRed40TECH Sluggish == slow to move, not weak. I agree with Brad's description, as they had trouble bringing their industrial might to bear with as much efficiency as other (sometimes in raw power weaker) successor states.

[@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773]

I've coined this mech a Roman Candle. Mainly because once you strip the armor off the left torso. Then pour in AP MG rounds, it's going to go up like one rather quickly.

[@steveharrison76]

Strip the lasers, pack on some ammo and armour and I find it to be an amazing support unit. In fact, it can punch well above its weight. (I don’t like it to have medium lasers as it not only takes up weight and heat but it makes it too tempting to use them rather than keeping it out of harm’s way and to carry on dropping the LRM hammer, which is what it’s supposed to do. I also do not care for the direct fire model.)

[@ian5395]

6am local and I see the madman has done an upload. Very nice. This insomniac morning just got better.

[@Arron-S]

Cgl redesign really makes it pop

[@BigRed40TECH]

Completely agreed.

[@Engelbote117]

Just got the catalyst model for this bad boy, I love it's design and function in-game and otherwise. One of my favorite medium mechs

[@Zakiriel]

the Trench Bucket!

[@andrewweltlich9065]

Definitely an underrated mech, however, having one of the LRMs arm mounted is a liability most other indirect-fire mechs don't have.

[@FunkyBaconArts]

Doesn't arm mounted weapons provide better hit ratio? Since it is a fast long range unit it seems like an intended tradeoff to have one launcher with more accuracy at the expense of vulnerability.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@FunkyBaconArts I think that's just in HBS, arm mounts in tabletop just give it a wider arc of fire.

[@tenchraven]

Field of fire.

[@TerenceKaplan]

Exploding arms is a MW5 specific issue. There I'll sub the arm LRM for a SRM6 because you always end in a brawl, and arm movement becomes an advantage.

[@andrewweltlich9065]

@@FunkyBaconArts arms are easier to get blown off than torso. Having half your LRMs in such a vulnerable location can be considered a weakness

[@passgo8507]

My sons favorite mech, next to the stalker. We both love the long range ability, and the mobility the lighter weight offers. It’s definitely one of the best LRM boats out there.

[@pentultimatearsehole9190]

My daughter loves the combination of trebuchet and stalker! She's put me down more than a few times 😂

[@upandaljm]

I LOVED the SRM variant. Used to surprise the hell out of people in the OG table top days. I still use it in the HBS game if I get one early enough.

[@kathilmechworks4895]

A mech I do like alot, but so many times It has detonated on me due to left torso breech. It is a great support mech on a budget though.

[@TheSYLOH]

The Trebuchet is the superior siege battlemech, capable of firing 30 LRMs over 630 meters

[@joeromano7902]

Ah, the trench. One of my favs actually!

[@throwabrick]

Trebuchet was the first mech I played in a Mechwarrior TT campaign, and it still has a special place in my heart.

[@StressmanFIN]

TBT-3C is SCARY in MW5. Stream + Artemis means you have two spread (or cluster in TT) reducing buffs for your missiles. They're landing smack in the CT usually. :P However... like with everything Lostech, I get too scared to use these mechs to their full potential. Because good luck finding replacements until 3040 or so.

[@worlds-in-conflict]

In the original tabletop game I wasn't a huge fan but since I started playing Alpha Strike I don't leave home without it.

[@NeroLordofChaos]

First time I got one in HBS Battletech, it found a permanent place in my early game lances. Harassing LRM fire is amazingly good in that game...as I found out when the first one I came across nearly cored my centurion from across the map and took off its arm thanks to an ammunition explosion.

[@bryy2053]

Id love to see some art done that shows a transparent skin of mechs that show a shadowed sillouette of the mechwarrior piloting it. This would give us scale and an idea where the cockpit is. Sometimes it's not always clear where they sit in the mech, and a few examples come to mind. Others are very clear but its easy to lose scale of these machines. I always like to see the mech bays in mechwarrior and battletech to see workers next to the mechs they are maintaining. Great video!

[@faithmcclosky4528]

Great video as always, Red. Glad you got the Trenchbucket reference in! :) I've always loved this mech, I prefer it over the Dervish for the medium class LRM platform.

[@Ratkill9000]

I've only ever messed around with a TBT once and was left wanting more for fire support. Granted the AI being less than incompetent, it would probably do better with a human controlling it.

[@mareczek00713]

Relatively cheap and logistically sound artillery platform with enhanced mobility and ability to fight to some extend in close range if forced to - of course it's awesome since mobility being completely screwed up close are artillery main weaknesses. I love this mech not as much as a mech but asa proud member of Queen of the Battlefield fixing main issues a commander focused on i direct support might face. Awesome machine.

[@hermes7587]

The Trebucht 5N is an excellent Mech for fire support in smaller engagements and skirmishes. It brings quite a lot of fireower to the table and it brings it fast. The main drawback is it´s obvious lack of endurance (heat, ammo and armor). It is also not a replacement for a Catapult or an Archer. For it´s cost it is generally a good deal if handled correctly.

[@mattikuokkanen]

Trebuchet makes a good fire support 'Mech for equally fast moving 'Mechs like Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, and heavy Osts. Use ammo sparingly (avoid unlikely shots), and it'll do well. Pair up with a SRM variant, and Trebuchets alone can either deal with many of the foe or flee from untenable situations. Example of a Trebuchet lance: 2 x TBT-5N, TBT-5S, and PXH-1 for recon/spotter. What comes to Whitworths, universe has only hundreds of them and are grossly outnumbered by Archers alone.

[@dominuslogik484]

I'm a fan of taking a black knight with trebuchet to support when trying to stick to lower tonnage lances.

[@stormcrow28]

Great purple bird stronk with missile mech from France. Even better when paired with Longbow from England.

[@charleswells1878]

My favorite battlemech that focuses on missles.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Do you hear that? It's raining. :D

[@rifleman2c997]

My fire support lance Runs Trebuchet and Dervish, and Honestly, those mechs are solid in all the game I've played.

[@coinslot321]

one of my fav machines. love the videos!

[@BigRed40TECH]

Thank you coin! :D

[@ambientlight3876]

One of my favorite mediums. Nearly as well armed as a Catapult or Crusader while significantly lighter and cheaper. One of the few over gunned (er missiled) 'mechs that actually pulls it off, especially for 3025 tech.

[@ianhowick]

the Trebuchet is a great pair for a Hunchback. Distract and pin down the enemy while the Hunchback closes in. Or... the Hunchback can be deployed as a bodyguard in a standoff or artillary deployment.

[@NewGuy2534]

I love the Trebuchet. Gives my MAD-II much needed target practice.

[@styxriverr5237]

I started with one of these in BTA 3062 and used it to kick a Marauder in the shins!

[@Szadek676]

The one mech that fears the Trebuchet is the Charger, it couldn't even get close!

[@yoloman3607]

With its higher than average speed the treb could easily downgrade the medium lasers to smalls and grab armor or ammo with the spare tonnage.

[@OmniMontel]

Nah in a medium or heavy lance you want the range that those medium lasers provide compared to small lasers 3 hexes is nothing. The base tbt really isn't that fragile once the ammo is gone. Stay back spam lrms till out of ammo then direct medium laser fire for round after round. Especially if you can get at least a +2 bonus, which you should having found some place nice to shoot from heavy woods or the like while Lrm spamming.

[@Qardo]

I sent the image of this mech to a friend who plays a Siege Engineer Dwarf. He is currently working on sweettalking the DM to bring a "Trebuchet" with them on campaign.😅

[@vali6717]

Everyone dreams of piloting a heavy or assault mech, so I am not surprised that the Trebuchet is so overlooked, in spite of the fact it carries close to the same level of firepower as its larger indirect fire support peers. I personally picked up a 'Trenchbucket' before I got my hands on a Catapult, and I still frequently use my TBT in tabletop instead. It may not be as glamorous a chariot of war but it is by no means less important.

[@BilliamCurt]

In MW5, this is up there with the Dervish, Wolverine, and SRM Javelin as early-game enemy mechs you *can't* ignore. As unorthodox as it sounds, fast short-ranged light AI mech builds absolutely fuck these up. Enemy LRM boats will be too tied up trying to hit a LCT-3S instead of pelting you and your lance with LRMs.

[@randomnetsurfer]

You can't leave your fire support without, well, support. You're absolutely right that they're ill-equipped to deal with fast lights - but that's the point of fast lights, after all. :)

[@kevinbartoe7881]

Awesome video man

[@brianhenry152]

The Trebuchet's speed really helps it for fast relocation in the back field, but the paper thin armor on the side torsos plus ammo only in the Left side means a TAC there will turn it into a smoking crater. That said, if used right it can really cause a lot of headaches for an opponent. Just don't let it get pinned down and you'll be find. Personally I tend to prefer the variants, especially the 5J for the extra mobility and armor on the side torsos. It makes for a great leader for a scout lance.

[@randomnetsurfer]

A good reminder that medium mechs should be the 'knights' of the battlefield. Everything has its place, but games (especially the video games) have us primed to consider assault mechs as the 'goal' of our games (and hey, i'm playing a BT video game right now having acquired 2x150 tonners so... I'm not immune to this), forgetting that the vast bulk of enemy forces would be mediums. Good point!

[@mareczek00713]

Mercs think of needing to hit a target with X machines and military planners need equivalent of 1200 long range missiles per salvo put on target while their logistics allow to carry more crap while for mercs less but heavier is a must when taking into account limited logistical capacity limit numbers more than weight itself. Different capabilities dictate different approach.

[@randomnetsurfer]

@@mareczek00713 That's a really good point. Thank you!

[@jeffersonian000]

The dirty secret of LRM launchers is that you can replace any LRM10, 15 or 20 with an equal number of tubes in LRM5’s and save the wealthy of an additional LRM5, or simply add in that extra 5. This means the Trebuchet can pack 40 tubes at the same weight instead of 30, or it can pack 30 and have extra ammo or extra armor, or more heat sinks. And given multiple LRM5 increases the survivability of the Mech and reduces logistics, it’s a wind why the larger launches are use at all.

[@sixtis731]

The NARC system seems like a tactical genius thing, if you have a few of that model in the same area. Enemy gets too close, Trebuchets fan out, whoever the enemy targets and closes with NARCs the target, then all other units (even potentially some further away) support fire the now easier to hit target. Could be a good counter-ambush team too. Interesting, thanks for the ignorance reduction. Maybe I'll look at the bucket a little closer next time

[@Gillymonster18]

I love the idea of lighter and lighter fire support mechs. Harasser units able to poke from a long way away and retreat before the opposition can wake up or get close.

[@darkhorse13golfgaming]

My favorite mech, thanks for showing her some love 🙂.

[@rylian21]

It's pretty powerful for a medium, but man is it light on the armor. If you're going to field one, don't let the enemy Jenner get behind your chunky boys because it'll put holes in your bucket.

[@mercarryn2042]

I never understood why the 7M got a Narc. Artemis + 1 more ammo bin + a C3 slave would have been the best choice for it. It may even have some tonnage for a bit more armor . Well, one can dream...

[@Timberjac]

The Trebuchet is the spiritual ancestor of the mech of the clans (fast, with many weapon systems for its tonnage, neglecting, leaving the task of heat management to the pilot and with a little less armor than any pilot in his right mind would like), but with a much more outdated and heavy armament.

[@operkoi8954]

My favourite trick with the trebuchet is replace the arm LRM with SRMs, saves weight and gives a nasty up close punch

[@BigRed40TECH]

Just field a 5S.

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

Love the Trebuchet. A great medium.

[@tenchraven]

Trebuchets partnered with Griffins make for excellent mobile fire lances. You have the -5N and the -5S, but why Marik never made a hybrid of them I'll never know- swap the arm mounted LRM for an SRM-6, move the ammo for the arm mount's feed system so the torso mount LRM has two tons, and put in a ton of armour and some sinks.

[@TheStraycat74]

so of COURSE I have a Full 3050 Clan Tech Rebuild of the Trebuchet TBT-5A 50 tons, 5/8/5 movement, Endo-steel and 8.5 tons of Clanner Fero-fiberous armor giving it 163 armor points (MAXED!), XL and DHS, leaving 24.25 tons of pod space. Prime Config: gives this ALL the missiles with Four LRM-15's (two each L/R torso) and an unprecedented Eight Tons of ammo! (64 total volly's) oh, and two ERML's in the arms (one each) because why not. that's 60 LRM's per round for 16 rounds in a row. ALT-config: four Streak SRM-6's, 6 tons of ammo (90 total volly's), two extra DHS (legs, for extra cooling in water), three ERML's (two RA, one LA), three Clan MG's (one RA, two LA) with 0.5 tons ammo (100) where ever you can stick it.

[@eddapultstab2078]

The trebuchet was designed as a medium raider and skirmisher. It's lack of armor and ammo reflects that because in a raid or skirmish you have to project as much force quickly and decisively in order to complete an objective. The design philosophy is built around throwing more firepower than the enemy can from the start and everything else will resolve itself. I would use it as a hammer to a heavy or assault Lance that Is serving as the anvil, they have enough speed to flank and the weapons to pick off softened targets.

[@Dracobyte]

Another great missile boat mech!

[@AnonymousONIagent]

Trebuchads rise up

[@gendoruwo6322]

it's a fast medium mech, and it hits as hard as a catapult, it's attack range and power is terrifying. it's one of the biggest threats in battle. exploit its weak armor and kill it quickly. the longer you leave the enemy trebuchet alone the more you'll get hurt.

[@BigRed40TECH]

If you leave him alone for more than 8 turns and he botches his missile roles, then you're good! lol

[@paradoxhiso1531]

i fucking love the trebuchet.

[@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462]

The original art always reminded me of Darth Vader as a kid if he were a mech.

[@lexmats8527]

Awesome vid as always. Very helpful for newbies such as myself. By the way, will you be going over the successor houses in the future? While I do love reading the sarna pages, it's always a joy to listen to the thoughts of veterans. FYI: I am a newly converted Stiener guy coz they sort of remind me of my favorite warhammer race: the Skaven. I love the amazing balance between immense wealth and astounding incompetence.

[@BigRed40TECH]

Yes, I will be covering houses in the future. No, I don't know exactly when. lol

[@treevenewson]

It is a great medium fire support 'Mech, but the 5/8 movement and 3 MLs almost always temp players to get into melee and doom.

[@kevobot9342]

It’s definitely a good mech for long range missle barrage when u are on a budget (as for the dervish I swap out the lrms for srms to make it a walking shotgun on legs)

[@theJellyjoker]

The good ole trench bucket!

[@mattblom3990]

I said this on the livestream yesterday, but in the video game Trenchbuckets can really wreck havoc even in the mid/late game. You focus on the overtly more powerful 'Mechs and the Trenchbucket on the opponents side is happy to just fling missile salvo after salvo into you. Suddenly your armour is stripped and you still have that annoying thing to deal with perched high on a rock (or behind it).

[@NonApplicable1983]

It’s a very efficient missile boat, but I always end up turning to a Catapult instead. Just my preference, I suppose. Still a great ‘mech.

[@blue95kun]

Never got a chance to use the Trebuchet much on the TT, but every time I do, it's a joy to use. And I can say, at least it isn't a Catapult.

[@Gigas0101]

Ah, the cooler Whitworth! Gotta respect this lovely missile boat.

[@burningchrome8622]

the Loup de Guerre is in my humble mech jock opinion the best easyest hero to find/get in mw5 all srm4s splat

[@CRAZYUNCLE117]

When building your mercenary unit, pick up a trebuchet. It is the greatest lrm boat... That you can afford.

[@robrib2682]

So I guess the SRM archer was just this thing, huh. The look on that Jenner pilot's face is still priceless when the first volley comes in from this thing

[@b3a5t0fwar9]

I have a mixed opinion on the trebuchet. On one hand, if I need a dirt cheap support fire mech this machine is VERY appealing. I mean, TWO LRM15s?? That's a bargain deal for ~5 million c bills. On the other hand, I'm always finding myself either downgrading the 15s to 10s to throw in armor or heatsinks while keeping the medium lasers, or entirely dropping the LRMs in favor of SRMs. Which gets rid of the point in me purchasing the mech in the first place. Tex of the BlackPantsLegion put it very well - "It's undertonned for a fire support mech, under armored, and has too little ammunition."

[@kylebarrie2887]

I really like this mech, I also do like the whitworth, catapult and to a lesser extent the dervish. I make 1 LRM a 10 rack and add 1 more ton of ammo and apply more armour (it's really the best option) Missiles all the way baby!

[@tapioperala3010]

Trebuchet

[@magicianman534]

Poor man's Catapult, but when you're a poor man it does it's job.

[@gary9346]

Ah, the Trebuchet. Even easier to kill than the panther.

[@WaltMartin]

Nicely Done. Good 'Mech but tough to play on the Table Top. Folks get antsey, and move it in too close were it becomes a liability.

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

I only dislike Trebuchets because of how many get thrown at me before I ever get one myself. And because putting a ballistic round through its ammo stores fills me with childlike joy.

[@Dirt1061]

The egg shell hat is the best feature! So it can hide during Easter

[@Ilikeatargazerminecrp4]

nice

[@BigRed40TECH]

Nice.

[@lukedudley5030]

When you need a lrm support mech this is a great mech to pick :-) cheap and as useful as any heavy missile boat if protected by its lance mates :-) its armed just as well as a catapult and at a fraction of the cost...a merc can't go far wrong with a trebuchet when looking for a missile support mech :-) the Whitworth is cheaper and ignored more by the opposition but the trebuchet packs a better punch :-)

[@AdairCorbin]

Ah the trenchbucket, for those situations were you can afford a catapult.

[@swiftmatic]

I named my Trebuchet "The Rock Chucker"

[@irondarknessdarkness8900]

about 30 years sgo i beat a maurader with a kick to the head after knocking it down with the last salvo of lrm's, actually really the last game i think i played until i bought into minis and stuff in recent times.

[@maverickman6486]

This is a mech that is meant to fire off the ammo then, if needed, move in with the 3 med lasers, now safe from ammo explosion.

[@CMDR-V-UncleJ]

i used to run one in my lance but the Ai.... well we know it was my weak link every mission a arm was missing i stopped using them. When i do see one on the field i make sure i take it out quick.

[@rotwang2000]

The Trenchbucket has a few advantages, it's quite mobile, packs a solid punch with a decent backup and good enough armour. The only downside is the limited ammo supply.

[@SeedemFeedemRobots]

i would of loved to hear the 7K variant get mentioned so we can enjoy the insanity that is kuritan concepts of fire support, or making a Banshee on an absolute budget lol. also the NARC using variants bring up an interesting period of variants where designers think its totally a great idea to put such a weapon on long range fire support platforms where they should supposed to be close enough to use them. absolutely stupid. a good example of post-helm incident new toy syndrome of putting new tech on things without thinking if it would even be useful.

[@jonavery4978]

Just as an aside about inner sphere lrms, I think the technology discrepancy between IS and Clan tech could be depicted as the IS packs being vertically launched. This would explain their minimum range much better than some kind of timed lock on and prime system that is massively inferior to anything that was available even when FASA first created the game, like, seriously, an RPG or a stinger missile doesn't have that problem. But if they were vertically launched with some kind of internal catapult system that kinetically lofted the rockets before they ignited and then thrust vectored onto their targets, anything standing too close could be easily overshot as the rockets would still be accelerating and have poor control authority at low velocity. Clanners solved this problem by direct firing the rockets, eliminating the need for an internal catapult to launch the rockets out of the tubes, requiring a more sofisticated guidance systems in each missile to allow them to still be fired indirectly as before.

[@TheGoldenBoy01-x4n]

The kintaro 20 is 5 tons heavier and can run the same build as the Trench bucket adding 2 more heat sinks and 3 more tons of armor.

[@mareczek00713]

Trebuchet is like 18% cheaper and from lore perspective most commanders getting a Kintaro would need to refit it first adding further costs of both money and time so even best case scenario of getting Kintaros of proper build financially you could get like 6 Trebuchet for 5 Kintaros (more or less). That being said Trebuchets offer you better bang for buck,simple as. Kintaros are good, sure, but military planner doesn't think in regards of "I have X mechs there" and more like "I have XY LMR15's to shoot at this and that" and Trebuchets allow you to put more LRMs on target for the same cash.

[@zaygr]

Everytime anyone takes a Trebuchet in the games I've played, it pretty much is the first to die to a unlucky crit and cook off.

[@sim.frischh9781]

With the Valkyrie, there are even LIGHT fire support mechs, though those are the very definition of "flimsy". Highly agile, but fragile to an extreme. Glass cannons.

[@BigRed40TECH]

The Valk might be a bit more maneuverable due to JJ's, but honestly, it's the same speed as the TBT usually.

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@BigRed40TECH And it only has a third of the TBTs firepower. But it´s also much cheaper and you get more in the same Landingship.

[@michaelkimberling7307]

I always thought it was funny that the trebuchet was smaller than the catapult. The size difference is reversed for their mid evil namesakes

[@JMcMillen]

You do know about that 85 ton mech called the Longbow, right? 😁

[@michaelkimberling7307]

@@JMcMillen Right? Next your going to tell me there’s a 100 ton mech called the slingshot lol. It seems like the bigger the missile boat gets the smaller it’s namesake is.

[@JMcMillen]

@@michaelkimberling7307 Funny enough... Slingshot doesn't seem to be the name of any war machine in the Battletech universe. So maybe there's still a chance for a 100 ton mech called the Slingshot. Then maybe a 150 ton super-heavy mech named the Pea-Shooter.