Baudrillard on Simulacra and Simulation | with Georg Moeller of Carefree Wandering

[@thomassimmons1950]

Once again, thank you good sir, for the courage to think out loud in dialogue. Socratic in its best sense. Great guest. Cheers to you both!!

[@professorrshaldjianmorriso1474]

"carefree wandering," or xiaoyao 逍遥 as we say in chinese. thanks for sharing this stimulating discussion!

[@professorrshaldjianmorriso1474]

also: interesting point around the 1:02:00 mark about Heidegger's philosophy-of-being being a simulated system, a mere language game, a matrix, which does not represent or describe the actual world/actual being. I would respond by noting that for Heidegger language itself "is the house of being. In its home human beings dwell. Those who think and those who create with words are the guardians of this home." Hence, his philosophy cannot be dismissed as mere simulation, since it deals directly with the house/dwelling of being itself.

[@JJONNYREPP]

Baudrillard on Simulacra and Simulation | with Georg Moeller of Carefree Wandering 1542pm 2.4.23 this simulated discourse - as most media manipulated events seem to be.... the childish must remain in control it would seem... i am very much bored of this dead end. and i think the theory was created to instigate such an impasse... i used to own the book this chat is based upon as i did various other scholastic discourse... this also refers to the erasing of the immediacy of the moment so a new environment can claim to be instigating said moment, cultivating a "lesson" - thus validating it's own existence. as simple folk do with cameras or video creation or when looking in a mirror... and these simple processes are used, also, by society to have you justify your existence though not everyone wants to be photographed or videoed. though they exist, right?

[@Jebediah1999]

​@@JJONNYREPP the speed of reproduction is all there is these. Real life can't keep up. I pray for day when electricity runs out. On the other hand Yuval Harare has said that one of the most popular books, a best seller, of the 16th century was an early kind of manual. A manual on witch hunting.

[@JJONNYREPP]

@@Jebediah1999 Comments on ‘Baudrillard on Simulacra and Simulation | with Georg Moeller of Carefree Wandering’ 1743pm 17.8.24 hammer of the witches? never read it. it used to be a big seller in occult bookshops of all places... not something a witch would want to see on the bookshelves of her boyfriend, though.... as we all seem to think the disney corp has lost the plot and desires to simulate even sporting events.. then i can't see much left in life to enjoy... life is pretty much effed up. best just gloss over these things lest you end rushing into heavy traffic due to it being a crashing mass of tiresomeness...

[@leonkis2255]

The Borges story in question is called "On Exactitude in Science" and it's a very compact one, quite brilliant.

[@diegocolomes]

More exactly: "On the rigor of science".👍

[@biglittlesplinter]

Thanks for revealing this! Super interesting to mull over

[@lookinfortime]

In Analects 2:12, Confucius says, "The gentleman (noble man, ideal man) is not an instrument (or tool... or machine)."

[@johnmars5282]

What a great and thought provoking discussion. I think a big part of depression wave and alienation today is trying to engage or to find "authentic" communication or authentic connections and bonds, and contanty finding gaps within the virtual. Thus the constant overdrive for communication and perfromance is at an all time high since authenticity is limited. But as you point out at the end Johannes the "real' puts a limit on it. I would further add that this is a Lacanian "Real" contrasted to ideaology fo self-identification of the virtual (that there is no original) and that can also be termed as the social or sociality , which when it rears its head is almost nightmarish when you take into account the dystopian aspects of virtual existence, such as the continuity of work and free time taking the form of the virtual profile as to present a spotless, non-problematic "perfect employable" self that can be hired in the workplace. These polarities are worth exploring in more detail and I think alienation in that respect is not an outdated sociological concept.

[@meinking22]

I'm in agreement with your guest. Baudrillard's exposition of the hyperreal is not something to be feared. It is something to be recognized and understood; a mediation of experience, an additional layer of Dasein with all of its own problematics and complexities. Authenticity in such a modality is more orientation than reality, channeling Gadamer, one might say... hermeneutical. Fantastic discussion. Thank you for sharing.

[@HelsinkiFINketeli_berlin_com]

The human mind, as a world itself, does not represent the world, which is actually just an environment. It's actually so, that the environment becomes the shared world as the representation of our minds as worlds. Of course this leads to the kind of symbiosis, where is difficult to show or name which was what first but that isn't a very interesting philosophical problem, and it presupposes a pure mind-world or either a pure environment and some mysterious first move from the one side or the other which all leads to the metaphysics of the worst kind.

[@Lin-Tsi]

The initial quote from Ecclesiastes is not from Borges! It's not even from Ecclesiastes! It's a fake quote that Baudrillard ironically attributed to Ecclesiastes. You were duped by the simulation! The Borges story he then goes on to talk about is Del rigor en la ciencia.

[@benediktzoennchen]

I like the term "overcoded" if I think of the map and the territory.

[@jordanaugust4329]

DnG explicitly talk about that term in AO. The overcoding of flows

[@matthewmaguire3554]

Those least in touch with reality are the most successful.💪

[@nephiindustries]

Johannes is truly a hero

[@fannygrande1142]

Fantastisch! (btw the drama queen's name is pronounced "Bodriyar", the two ll's become a y)

[@Tehan123]

27:57 on the rice futures market being a simulacrum, I think an even better example would be Tesla stock, where there is essentially no possibility of getting a majority share or earning dividends (the utility or use values of the stock are therefore 'virtual') yet people still treat Tesla stock as though it has real value (which of course MAKES it have real value) Of course, the stock price is influenced by the sales of Tesla cars, (the original sign perhaps) but again it is up to debate whether the material production or second order observation of Tesla itself is the key element in "making value" here

[@grubfoot5707]

Surely a large amount of the function of the price of rice futures would be determined by the expected rice supply and demand which would be dependent on real parameters such as weather, amount of rice planted, past rice demand and so on. A proportion would be purely virtual and based on the biases of traders but not the whole thing. Or have i entirely misunderstood the point?

[@fizywig]

Many of the aporias alluded to and promoted by Baudrillard regarding language can be illuminated by a deep understanding of Wittgenstein ‘ tractates and philosophical investigations these two read as one philosophical dialectical text.

[@ZeonAndOnly]

Its excrutiatingly easy to experience the real. Also obvious that words are tangential to the terrain. You keep find the devil in the detail.

[@keyvanmehrbakhsh4069]

what is a profile it's certainly nothing more than some assignments of linguistic structures and signs structure to validate or represent a human soul. so it's not something out of this world it's just formal assignments which can get back to it's natural essence eventually . so what we are getting afraid of more is about loosing the trail of the ethical truth eventually which I think we can't the virtual is self explanatory and will be overshadowed by the existential truth .

[@dylanfrasier4054]

Dear friends let's bring the eastern to the a.i.Like zen koan training for machines.No human has self combusted from a koan ever.

[@farzanamughal5933]

Georg has quite a funny listening face

[@jamescareyyatesIII]

Indeed a drama queen. Not unlike the drama queen of German idealism--Neitzche.

[@virtue_signal_]

It's funny to hear your guys who couldn't futures markets. Without futures markets people wouldn't risk their money and you wouldn't have enough rice for anyone. That's kind of a blot blind-spot for philosophers who but never had to risk their own money.

[@JohannesNiederhauser]

I’m risking my own money as I’m self-employed and I studied economics as an undergraduate. This sort of an apology doesn’t hold any more in times of high-frequency and derivatives trading, with players betting purely for the sake of profit.

[@Jebediah1999]

Rice can't be cultivated without futures markets.

[@virtue_signal_]

@@JohannesNiederhauser enjoy being self-employed no need to be jealous of those who have done better monetarily than you. I've been a self-employed handyman for 35 years and have done well for myself don't understand all the jealousy toward wealthy people.

[@matthewmaguire3554]

Seeing how the majority of people never consider any of this and just focus on being as smart as possible and protecting those closest to them…Is common sense to be considered representational…More…but most widely engaged…Practical signs, symbols and mouth noises?🫳🫴🫵👎