1988: IAN McKELLEN on Section 28 | Wogan | Classic Celebrity Interviews | BBC Archive

Ian McKellen appears on Wogan to state his opposition to Section 28 of the Local Government Act - which prohibits the "intentional promotion of homosexuality" by local authorities.
Originally broadcast 3 June, 1988.
You have now entered the BBC Archive, a time machine that will transport you back to the golden age of TV to educate, entertain and enlighten you with classic clips from the BBC vaults.
Make sure you subscribe so that you never miss a single stop on our amazing journey through the BBC Archive - www.youtube.co...

[@ABC_DEF]

It was enormously brave of Ian McKellen to say this at that time. I was 24 in 1988 and it was another ten years before I dared to tell another person I was gay or meet another gay person. To do so would have meant potentially losing one's job, family, friends, everything. Much better just to say nothing and never admit one's feelings to anyone.

[@Oheretic]

Apart from Ian McKellan’s bravery here, this is also why Wogan was a good lad. Look at the way he respectfully frames and articulates the questions in a way for McKellen to set out his view. No salaciousness, no attempt to engender moral panic, just a polite, considered, measured conversation. Being as sensitive to this issue as he quite genuinely comes across is not something you would readily expect of the host of a prime time chat show in 1988. He was on the side of the angels really was old Tel.

[@johnking5174]

Everyone might be surprised to know Terry was a liberal man at heart. He was an atheist and a humanist. He believed people of all race, sex and creed should be treated fairly. I remember he said he was raised in a Catholic school system and he hated it. Lovely man, very much missed.

[@sexobscura]

@@johnking5174 It's not surprising for someone raised in a tyrannical system like a Catholic School to end up hating it. Most people don't like ANY school, anyway. I'm definitely not surprised to know he was liberal, either. He worked in an industry flooded with gay people, after all, so you've got to understand that environment first and foremost

[@barryh13]

It is amazing how calm & composed he is, it makes his point even more convincing!

[@sexobscura]

Yeah. It's surprising that he wasn't acting like a hysterical, flaming queen like he usually does

[@hilaryepstein6013]

I don't think people realise how brave it was for a public figure like Ian McKellen to speak out at that time. Section 28 would be unthinkable today and thank goodness for that.

[@Friday0891]

Absolute tosh Mr EPSTEIN, The cabal you're apart of promoted anti christian values like your ancestry did many years ago. Today homosexual rainbow 🌈 mafia are absolutely hated worldwide and when the walls start to crack the fighting will be definitive

[@joshuataylor3550]

They're doing it in US schools right now

[@joesam7744]

@@joshuataylor3550 Mabe be should take the time to read 1557 bill ( its only few pages) before you spew out CNN bullcrap.

[@MarcoNegrisEye]

So brave. So virtuous.

[@ember-brandt]

Look up the 'Don't Say Gay' laws.

[@thecaveofthedead]

For an actor to express himself so clearly in such an atmosphere of bias is actually extraordinary. He's not a philosopher or politician and yet he shines a light on the nonsense debate of the time so very brightly.

[@balthiersgirl2658]

Politicians talk utter garbage all the time he's so much more intelligent

[@andybray9791]

He loves slippery slope stealthily

[@sexobscura]

That's right. He's an actor who's conducting himself in the way that he knows he'll be listened to and understood by thoughtful individuals

[@macaulaygallacher1995]

1:46: I almost fell out of my chair when that wide shot showed Telly Savalas had just been casually sitting there all that time 😂

[@biegebythesea6775]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@culttelevision]

Yeah old Aristoteles certainly wasn't as enlightened as his namesake.

[@johnd3233]

​@@culttelevision Wtf are you on about creep?

[@culttelevision]

For the simpletons who can't formulate basic sentences, Aristoteles was Telly Savalas's real name and he was well known for being a difficult, arrogant bully. . There's an incident where he called some guys playing chess at an airport 'fags' .

[@christopherhowe5180]

Ian presents a cogent argument and is the most eloquent man.

[@pinkishhaven5158]

This is the first ever video I've seen of young ol' Gandalf.

[@alextovar5666]

He was then 48 years old.

[@George_Snow]

What a wonderful man, and a wonderful segment. Section 28 came up at an event I was attending recently and I thought I'd re-educate myself on exactly what it entailed... he spoke out very well about it. Re: the book, I had a similar conversation with my best friend the other day... he said "What's the point of Pride, you will never change the bigots' minds?" to which I replied... "But if there are people who are, indeed, LGBTQ+ who are hiding in the shadows, they get to see there are others like them, that they are not alone, that it is 'normal' and 'okay'." Interesting, isn't it, how the meaning of something changes completely depending on the audience experiencing it...?

[@tristanmorgan852]

He's 49 at this point of his life omg he looked younger

[@twinkthatloveslotrtrilogy7676]

He looked late 30s

[@thomasmurdock]

Sir Ian - brilliant

[@johnbarry5036]

he was such a handsome man, even now in his old age. Theres something about the English, their elegance, their accent, the "properness."

[@tonyb9578]

One of my favourite actors. He’s in a movie called “Walter” which on KZbin. Fantastic acting.

[@pastorbri]

Section 28 should never have even happened.....

[@johnking5174]

It was a disgusting law, brought in by Thatcher, who had gay men in her government and some curious men such as Michael Portillo. Tony Blair tried his hardest to repeal it when he came to power, and finally did so in 2003, after stiff opposition from some.

[@joshuataylor3550]

This is a perfect rebuttal to the 'don't say gay' law in the US.

[@tommyatkins3911]

It's in Florida and there's nothing about not saying gay in it.

[@tonyatkinson2210]

@@tommyatkins3911 it’s effectively the same law though . Whether or not the term is used

[@MarcoNegrisEye]

@@tonyatkinson2210 well it doesn't just spring up from nowhere. Why is the law being presented? Is it simply because of hatred of homosexuality or bi sexuals?

[@tonyatkinson2210]

@@MarcoNegrisEye Bigotry is back on the rise in the US. A symptom of Christian nationalism and trumpism

[@Eric-ys8do]

​@@tonyatkinson2210 section 28 was worse as the don't say gay bill only applies to elementary schools, this applied to all stages of education plus local authorities

[@roderickdewar1064]

Ian speaks reason to irrationality. Wogan gives him the space to do so.

[@johnking5174]

Terry was a very liberal man and agreed with what Ian was saying here, and he wanted to give Ian a platform to say his point.

[@culttelevision]

What a fine head of 80s hair he had in those days. The ‘summer ‘ Wogan set was lovely and positive colour and set design .

[@DenkyManner]

Wogan was a gay rights pioneer.

[@Friday0891]

wogan was a television employee, he peddled whatever the cabal told him to.

[@andybray9791]

I wouldn’t mind meeting friends who go out with same sex, at met some of their partners and they are polite

[@johnking5174]

Terry Wogan was a very liberal man in his views. Even though he was brought up in a fairly conservative catholic environment in Ireland, he hated it. He was an atheist by the time he became famous on the BBC and he was a supporter of LGBTQ+ people even before LGBTQ+ was a term used.

[@jasonthewatchmansson8873]

Mr. Wogan is interviewing a gay man. There's no such thing as "LGBTQ+ people."

[@ilovemydog6847]

Being gay in Ireland at that time was akin to being in league with the devil. It was only around this time you could buy condoms as up until recently then sexual protection aids were illegal. And this at a time when priests were sexually abusing children.

[@ministryofanti-feminism1493]

He was a BBC man, so that's obvious.

[@snowdog9954]

Back in the day when we could have an adult discussion.

[@andybray9791]

kzbin.infoWMn30aAJJrs?si=vU1dB3t_uhAsMKK1

[@HomoLegalMedic]

We still can, it's just that idiots are louder.

[@Inflightfight]

Thankyou Sir Ian for this. The 80s was such an interesting time so much liberation but also oppression with section 28, which really engendered so much fear. Eventually the liberation won.

[@hunyesmith03]

Just wonderful to watch our gay forefather's fight for the rights we have today. I never knew Sir Ian Mckellen was such a brave freedom fighter.

[@hyperballadbradx6486]

Both great men in their own ways. I heartily thank Ian, especially, for his efforts for my future. I have to pay that gift back with my own action. My rights can, and may well be, un-enshrined.

[@GibsonFender]

10 years before Gandalf!

[@Illustraful]

Gosh he looks so young here.

[@finaldeljuego7841]

I love him so much. So talented, funny, smart.

[@biegebythesea6775]

Tele Savalas looks like an East End Gangster who'll smash your windows in if you look at him funny.

[@Dreama40]

That law shall not pass!!

[@gerardmackay8909]

Section 28 happened because Thatcher after 1987 was increasingly influenced by right wing headbangers who told her it would play well with Tory voters (on a personal level Thatcher was not homophobic). William Whitelaw had been her trusted right hand man and a restraining influence on her but he retired due to ill health in 1987 and after that she went off the rails. Hot on the heels of this spiteful malicious law came the Poll Tax which was MASSIVELY unpopular with almost everyone and was the beginning of the end of Thatcher.

[@mikedee171]

Very eloquent

[@biegebythesea6775]

That's a BIG blazer.

[@biegebythesea6775]

beautiful eyes.

[@ivanmercado5193]

The closest thing we have now....on having a proper adult conversation....is the meme cat and the blond lady pointing fingers at the cat.

[@DaraM73]

Gandalf the Right

[@ministryofanti-feminism1493]

Gandalf the Far-Left more like.

[@dr.vikyll7466]

​@@ministryofanti-feminism1493 Being gay is far left????

[@justaghostinthesea]

Gandalf the Based

[@HomoLegalMedic]

Ministry of anti feminism 😂 tell me you're an incel without telling me you're an incel

[@Michelle_Schu-blacka]

Maybe in 30 years, we'll be just as fine with the T part of LGBTQ. It's always the same. Something 'new' enters society and everybody hates it because they didn't know it existed and messes with their reality. Those people invariably end up as that relative that younger members of the family are ashamed of. I personally, want to be that relative that is wise and a source of help as the younger ones try to make their way in life. I want to be Yoda, not Vader.

[@Illustraful]

You want men in women's changing rooms you mean.

[@Michelle_Schu-blacka]

@@Illustraful 🙄 And what about transmen? Is it equally bad to have 'women in men's changing rooms'?

[@Illustraful]

@@Michelle_Schu-blacka Yes.

[@Michelle_Schu-blacka]

@@Illustraful Presumably you think transwomen are using female toilets to commit heinous comes because, what other reason could there be for going through years of transition, surgeries, discrimination, etc, etc. So why is transmen using male toilets bad?

[@Illustraful]

@@Michelle_Schu-blacka I'm not talking about those who've undergone surgery. I'm talking about those who simply declare they're a woman or a man and everyone else is supposed to go along with it. Women don't have a penis. Men don't have a vagina. Biology doesn't care about your fantasies.

[@jaggass]

He's not changed one bit.

[@Soguwe]

That can't be Sir Ian That man looks way too young

[@AdAm-dd4jq]

Section 28 was so damaging.

[@pendorran]

It was never enforced.

[@ABC_DEF]

Not really, because no one was ever prosecuted under it.

[@biegebythesea6775]

I LOVE THAT TIE. MY GOD WHAT A BEAUTIFUL TIE.

[@ManfromuncoolBlogspotstars]

Wogan speaking for Clause 28. Thanks for sharing: so I can exercise my right to choose and not watch any clips of his ever again.

[@erniemccracken2429]

It's called playing devil's advocate. He wasn't in favour of it at all. Stop being so hysterical.

[@johnking5174]

Wogan was 100% not for Clause 28. Wogan was always supportive of LGBT rights. He was an atheist, a humanist, and not blinded by religion.

[@davidbellamy2612]

I don't remember watching this episode but I do wonder if Telly Savalas, also gay, contributed to the discussion in any way?

[@conscientiousobserver8772]

No. Telly Savalas was not, also gay.

[@QuoPaperPlane]

Telly, an Iron? Who loves yer, Baby.

[@biegebythesea6775]

@@conscientiousobserver8772 don't ruin it for him, it's his w4nk fantasy.

[@conscientiousobserver8772]

@@biegebythesea6775 🤣🤣🤣

[@ballygeale1]

Poor telly ,haven to sit and listen to this

[@bobthebuilder243]

it's sad that there are still laws try to stop lgbt media

[@bencoatesworth7731]

See the thing with section 28 it is the intentional promotion. I wonder how many “accidental” so called promotions they was

[@AnyLongSkinsNah]

the first minute of this vid is unfortunately not the case anymore but what a G Sir Ian McKellen less go

[@revbenf6870]

Huh??

[@Barefoot_Joe]

Gandalf the Gray, sorry misspelled it 😂

[@eddieworkman5855]

gandalf the gay 😂

[@ctcurry1777]

The UK is now one of the most open and tolerant nations on earth.

[@jakedeane5304]

And is paying the price for it big time

[@MrZarewna]

@@jakedeane5304 How so?

[@MrZarewna]

@@squamd5777 I'm from Finland. Don't really follow UK politics that much, so I was curious. But thanks for calling me blind and deaf, I appreciate it.

[@tmarritt]

@@MrZarewna the guys just scared of brown people

[@imsoreetodddid9007]

@@MrZarewna because it's to the detriment of the native British people in regards to mass immigration from the 3rd world.

[@MarcoNegrisEye]

Well turns out the yt / BBC collective won't allow my comment despite it being free from bias. We must only stick to the script.

[@DenkyManner]

Was it really dumb? I'm guessing it was really dumb.

[@13strange67]

Michelangelo was NOT 'gay' !

[@EmmaRiddle543]

He was

[@zipperdan3969]

At the time the church accused him of sodomy on multiple occasions and now you have Christian mongoloids going "oh well he actually wasnt" funny that

[@biegebythesea6775]

gay

[@biegebythesea6775]

@@EmmaRiddle543 he was gay or 'gay'? the person you're responding to wrote 'gay' which might mean closeted.

[@NoosaHeads]

From little acorns big oak trees grow. From acceptance to society's degeneration in 34 years.

[@kjp4250]

And of course, heterosexuals had absolutely no part in the 'degeneration' of society. As if straight porn wasn't readily available in the 80s, no, let's just blame gay people.

[@meowstermeow2967]

End of the world :( let children be children they don't need to learn about cruising

[@francofan100]

Yeah since 2003 schools have been basically rubber and sex fetish clubs. That’s why I moved me kids to Venezuela

[@andybray9791]

@@francofan100 since section 28 repeal we are on slippery slope

[@zertyuz]

@@francofan100 I was born in 1999. Didn't see any rubber

[@oneminhistory]

Wogan has always been awful.

[@biegebythesea6775]

how so?

[@meowstermeow2967]

The should bring back that law

[@ejl1000]

Really? Why is that?

[@jackduxbury1632]

🪖

[@DenkyManner]

You're so edgy. What a funny, subversive jokester you are. Such an original mind.

[@MrDaiseymay]

@@ejl1000 yeah right

[@Illustraful]

You protest too much.

[@andybray9791]

A mild/similar version of section 28 (with changes) would be much needed for this era. Ever since the “mermaid” scandal etc even I’m gravitating towards Christian groups. religious schools deserve protection. I wouldn’t be bothered if people go out with same, opposite or both sex but marriage/adoption part no. Sex education should be at high schools/college only not younger. Not everyone of modern sexualities would back everything. We should have ads like that saying at the end some would override description

[@revbenf6870]

So called "faith schools" merely allow the indoctrination of young minds and the quashing of genuine enquiry and debate. This was a more modern expression of the same mindset that persecuted Alan Turing our great and tragic war hero.

[@zipperdan3969]

Are you saying that I shouldn't have marriage rights?

[@andybray9791]

@@zipperdan3969 only for humanists but other major religions no

[@MrDaiseymay]

Was that Telly Savallis they allowed a flash of ? jeeeez he must have been bored. Whenever McKellen was on a ''Talk'' show, you could bet he'd bore the viewer's,plugging his Gayness.

[@Illustraful]

Dealing with troubling latent feelings?

[@WVgrl59]

I don't think he's boring at all and I don't see all this gayness that you see. Lol But some people have blinders on and all they can think of is what kind of sex people are having behind other's bedroom doors so that they can disapprove of it. I don't ever think about what someone is doing in their own bedroom, that's their business. Just like these preachers that rant about prostitution or gay lovers but have them in their bedrooms. You naughty boy must be one of those that love to think about it or you wouldn't have brought it up. Hahaha, it is always the ones that are putting someone different down that are doing the same thing behind their own closed doors. Hahaha

[@thecaveofthedead]

That wasn't boredom you were feeling. It was homophobia. And you knew it as well as everyone reading your comment.

[@LordNimonYT]

Back in 88 this was social change. That anyone would think McKellan is “promoting” something you’re born with should look into the last 50+ years of psychological and societal study, lest they sound like a deliberately ignorant throwback. But yes, that was Telly Savalas.

[@eemoogee160]

This default to being triggered is kinda amusing, to be honest. But the seeming inability to comprehend the content of the interview combined with the apparent lack of basic human empathy are disappointing.

[@gabriel771100]

Section 28 shall not pass!

[@TetsugakuSan]

🥁

[@davidbolger2000AD]

I dunno why this Rainbow Wizard of Gondors Mountains had to do Cats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@robsmith6281]

I thought section 28 was wounding with intent.?

[@joshuataylor3550]

Propaganda

[@Eric-ys8do]

Section 28 of a different law...

[@andybray9791]

It stopped indoctrinating

[@AnimatedBlast]

4:55 But now, they are more than readily avaible to all kids. In fact, reception aged kids are forced to read the,