Bearing the Curse of Hell-Preston Sprinkle

[@ambassador_in_training]

This is the talk that helped convert me to the Conditional Immortality view, particularly the slide at 57:22, which compares the ECT verses vs Conditional Immortality verses!!!! It's been many years of pondering a number of Scriptures that helped me remain open to this view: 1) Rom 2:7 has been very important in challenging the immortal soul idea. God promises eternal life to those who seek for immortality. Why seek immortality if I'm already immortal? 2) Jesus brought life and immortality through the gospel (2Tim 1:10 i believe). This suggests that immortality wasn't available prior. 3) God, who alone has immortality (1Tim 6). If God is the only one immortal, then everyone else isn't.

[@gingrai00]

Excellent. The sheer volume of scripture supporting conditional immortality is staggering.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

Excellent presentation Preston. Thanks Chris and the team for putting this on KZbin. Awesome. Can't wait till Francis Chan comes around to this point of view.

[@carladean2339]

I can only testify that it was NOT fear but God's Love that saved me and continues to transform my thinking and perspective. God is faithful to accomplish that which HE began in me. I don't believe we can fully know unbelievers eternal destination, but I would like to think it isn't eternal torment.

[@SarahsKnight0]

37:24 - This one particularly amazes me in how many traditionalists I have argued with try to skirt around it and make it sound like eternal torment. Basically, their argument goes backwards: Eternal torment is true and souls are immortal, therefore the verse must be talking about the PEOPLE of Sodom, not the city itself, and they are burning in hell right now, serving as an example of what will happen to other unbelievers in the future. Eternal fire MUST mean that whatever or whoever goes into it will burn forever. It's ridiculous how often I hear conditionalists like myself be told that we are the ones perverting and twisting Scripture to suit our own personal doctrine. Sodom and Gomorrah CAN'T SERVE AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMNET FOR UNBELIEVERS IF NO ONE CAN SEE THEM BURNING IN HELL RIGHT NOW.

[@seekerofalltruth3396]

So the soul that sinneth shall not die? Also Jude 7 mentions an eternal fire too which burned over Sodom and Gomorrha. Now, is it still burning several milleniums later?

[@sillysausage1370]

@@seekerofalltruth3396 Don't embarrass them man. They've got nothing between the ears 😂

[@grantbakewell5014]

Re: 16:57ff "Unquenchable fire" is a term used by John the Baptizer, not Jesus Himself, whereas Jesus's message about the Kingdom/Reign of G-d "at hand" grabs me by the lapels and "shakes" me into greater consciouses, which is what good preaching, with the "fire of the Spirit" can still do. The goal is not to condemn people to hell, but to wake us all up, before we destroy ourselves with hate, violence, and warfare beyond that which the Romans could hardly imagine. Thank you, again, Preston, for your great book on nonviolence. La Paz de Cristo+

[@agape-one]

Have been waiting for a new video from you. I am glad to see this one. Already started listening, thank you so much 😊😊

[@debshirley6904]

Thank you for your indepth study!!

[@tommykeefer1307]

Death is mercy full to eternal torment. Truly YHWH IS grace full in HIS MERCY.

[@theneverending9319]

I love Preston sprinkle. The dude studies and lets scripture guide him and not creeds or tradition he grew up in.

[@rabbitcreative]

"After checking it's not that clear..." ~~ "After re-visiting a certain piece of text, I found myself interpreting it in new ways."

[@SalvationByGrace]

Lamentations 3:31-32 *31For no one is cast off by the Lord forever.* 32Though he brings grief, *he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love.* Isiah 57:1 NIV *The righteous perish,* and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Luke 3:6 *And ALL flesh shall see the salvation of God.*

[@seekerofalltruth3396]

So you are an Universalist?

[@SalvationByGrace]

@@seekerofalltruth3396 Not that all religions are the same or true but I believe all will ultimately go to heaven after death and only because of God's unconditional love, mercy and grace. Believing allows us to experience God's unconditional love while living on earth now. That's how believers are specially saved now. 1 Timothy 4:10 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who *is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.* John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and *believe NOT, I judge him NOT:* for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

[@seekerofalltruth3396]

@@SalvationByGrace you sadly are a cherry picker

[@SalvationByGrace]

@@seekerofalltruth3396 My view doesn't contradict any teaching in the bible that I know of when understood correctly in context.

[@SalvationByGrace]

@DellaDello lol

[@EricBaxter-f2k]

Pretty much convinced on conditional immortality/ after listening to brother Chris date lay it all out from scripture / Chris it would be nice if brother James would debate you ‘ I suppose he just wants to stick with the 1689 London Baptist confession of faith 😢

[@glennracz4647]

@11:00 - one should note that in Matt 10:28, the words "able to" shouldn't be omitted.

[@jeromemausling6324]

Sadly Chris Date doesn't show the same openness and kindness towards those who hold to universal reconciliation.

[@billerickson5604]

Maybe God made this doctrine ambiguous ON PURPOSE. To those who dont fear ceasing to exist(like i was), there is language that seems to suggest everlasting torment along with much tradition. But to those who may be offeneded by ECT, there is good reason to believe that we will cease to consciously exist. I believe the debate on whether one can "lose" their salvation falls upon these lines , that God did this on purpose: to give those who think it doesnt matter how they live as a Christian("think they stand take heed lest they fall") and those who fear losing it can have confidence that ("he who began a good work will complete it..") I think im confortable at presenting both options , tailoring an approach based on whom im speaking with in an evangelistic context. Ironic thing is that i dont think i wouldve repented and called on Jesus believing that i would just die and be no more , even if a painful death. I wouldve chosen that over just the long suffering that i had faced even in this lifetime. Thats why , apart from ECT, suicide seemed like an option. But that being said ,i now lean very heavily towards conditional immorality. As far as sharing the gospel , i just repeat biblical language (everlasting punishment, everlasting destruction, lake of fire which issecond death, weeping and gnashing, wrath and anger, etc.) And let the Holy Spirit reveal it in his way. Gods wisdom is so great. I believe His word may be meant to mean different things to different people and also as a test to us Christians to see if we can be united and love one another despite our different understandngs of it. Thanks my rant. God bless u all

[@Mrm1985100]

Rev 14:11 is actually very weak. It's talking about the present age not about eternity.

[@michaelnewzealand1888]

I have often though that. Combined with Is 34:9-10 ref, being symbolic, and only applying to those who take the mark of the beast, talking about day and night etc, seems clearly not torment at any rate

[@cryptojihadi265]

Exactly. Same words are used to describe Babylon's fate during the bowls of wrath as well.

[@Regularguy_17]

I feel I'm home

[@christophertheconqueror8751]

It's true. I have to say it. Revelation presents issues. But the rest of the Bible seems to rather clearly teach annihilation of the wicked. YHWH thank you for your Son Jesus. It goes against what i traditionally believed about ECT. But i think is right. It feels right. But above all, including feelings. Scripture teaches it

[@fireandworms]

Yep. And Revelation's extremely non-literal nature presents problems for pretty much every interpretation.

[@rabbitcreative]

Fire whose work is eternal. Touch a stove, get burned, you're still you. Get consumed in fire until your bones turn to ash, and you are no longer you. This is child's play.

[@GnaReffotsirk]

I don't want to be constantly reminded of evil men and their deeds forever. I hope God will just burn them to nothing, and give me peace in the life to come.

[@Why.am.I.here...]

Oh, really? Is that whatJesus said about His tormentors on the cross? "Father, I don't want to be constantly reminded of these evil men and their deeds forever! I hope You will just burn them to nothing, and give me peace, when I am back Home!" Or did He say: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do! What would you want Jesus to say to the Father about you? You want grace for yourself and 'justice' for others??

[@GnaReffotsirk]

@@Why.am.I.here... wrong context.

[@GnaReffotsirk]

@@Why.am.I.here... You'd rather watch them burn in agony forever and ever then yes? Luke 19:27 Jesus Himself teaches, He will kill those who don't want Him to be king over them.

[@Why.am.I.here...]

I'd rather see them saved ❤️

[@JesusIsAboveAllOtherNames]

You can forfeit your salvation and walk away from God, but you can't lose it.

[@rabbitcreative]

At about 18:30, your speaking can be improved by referencing the author. For that is where the meaning resided. "I don't know if that's what the author meant," sounds better than "the words could mean that, or they could mean something else". Words don't mean. Only a person does. ~~ "So whatever the phrase means, it cannot mean fire..." Poor form. ~~ "Maybe the phrase can be used that way, but it doesn't intrinsically mean..." And you agree with me, despite your poor form. Bravo.

[@julietrae8665]

what about when Jesus compares a people, that it would be better for Sodom on the day of the Lord'; compared to you that did not repent when you knew the truth????

[@PeterProf7777]

Jesus taught and practiced unconditional love therefore God is unconditional love. The idea of hell and God judging us and sending us there is the polar opposite of unconditional love. No such place as Hell. God does not judge. God does not need a blood sacrifice. Those are all old Old Testament ideas. All of that negativity contradicts unconditional love. The Kingdom of Heaven is within. The Kingdom of Hell is within. Hell is a self-imposed condition. The Prodigal Son experienced hell and that suffering changed him and brought him home.

[@Sound0freason]

He's closer than he knows to UR mindsets. The only correlation that hasn't been made, was the passages of death, cessation of life, permanence and finality in destruction, etc. in my understanding, is of the false self. The tares. The self we exalt in our own image. All are wicked, none seek righteousness, all have turned to their own way, in our false selves.

[@rabbitcreative]

At about 13 minutes in: we call that, "un-analyzed linguistic habits". You're welcome.