Beaver Island MI Crash

[@alecdelange1766]

Thanks for covering this one, Juan. I went to college with Kate, one of the passengers who lost her life in the crash. Though it’s been 15 years since we last hung out, this one hits much closer to home. I appreciate your objective, fact based analysis that helps all of us pilots learn from others’ mistakes and hopefully not repeat them.

[@blackhawks81H]

This one really hurts. I used to live there. I also used to work for island airways a long time back. The Islander is such a reliable rugged plane. It was an absolute shock to everyone in the tiny community of only a few hundred people. Paul Welke is a local legend.. He passed 35,000 hours a few years ago. The vast majority of it on Islanders. Paul is the type of guy who's gotten up and made special flights just to take a sick dog over to the mainland for emergency vet care, and not even charged the people for the flight. I highly encourage you watch a short video of a news segment here on KZbin here called "Paul Welke of Island Airways 40 years flying to and from Beaver Island" if you want a little more background on Paul and island airways in general. As far as your question about the date of the licensing of the pilot involved, he was a schoolteacher in Traverse City for his regular job, and I believe this job flying was a weekend side gig as reported in a local newspaper. So that 2012 date may well be original and not a renewal.

[@DavidDavid-jb1cy]

great write up. thank you. sorry for your loss.

[@Vod-Kaknockers]

Same here. Lived there as a child back when Joe McPhillips flew before the Welke family took over. Was stunned when I heard it was Island Airways. R.I.P to those who lost their lives.

[@jsorbieus]

The pilot was a good friend and very active in the local EAA Young Eagles program. We’ll miss him.

[@speculizer1971]

Very sorry for the loss.

[@easttexan2933]

Deepest sympathies to all families, friends, and all loved ones.

[@ericsundell9978]

Was shocked to hear this. I was good friends with one of Mr. Welke's grandson's growing up in northern MI. Was somewhat relieved to hear no one in the Welke Family directly was at the controls during this flight. RIP to all on board.

[@donaldmoser212]

Back in the mid 1980s, I lost my fiancé a week before Christmas to a major snow squall at a northern Michigan airport. Business jet - all the passengers were killed when the plane crashed into the woods at the end of the runway. Life has never been the same.

[@drkatel]

How tragic, Mr. Moser. I’m very sorry to hear this.

[@marlinweekley51]

That’s super rough - condolences my friend.

[@dalemtb1199]

Sorry brother...

[@31Alden]

So very sorry for your loss.

[@jamescraig4479]

Peace be with you dear friend!

[@nedw172]

I flew Islanders on the Lake Erie Islands for a few years. Fantastic airplane. Single engine performance is outstanding. Hard to imagine what could have happened.

[@tedgraham3119]

Another great report Juan. We all thank you for keeping us up to date on aviation news. Charlevoix is pronounced ‘Char-la-voy’ , the last syllable like ‘boy’, the x is silent.

[@texas0bserver729]

In French it should be "shar-la-vwah"

[@eco2geek.]

@@texas0bserver729 Actually, if there's no accent on the "e" it wouldn't be pronounced at all in French. Just "sharl-vwah". In any case, the correct pronunciation of a place name is always how the locals pronounce it.

[@williamsellman1]

Correct. Char-la-voy.

[@texas0bserver729]

@@eco2geek. yep, you're right, been 20 years since I spoke French. My in-laws are French Canadian, too.

[@blackhawks81H]

@@texas0bserver729 Michigan people pronounce things however they feel like doing though. Lol there are entire news articles online about "Hard to pronounce" Michigan place names. Usually it's hard, because it's a French or even Native American name that was just pronounced weirdly by locals and stuck that way. Sometimes the name is actually pronounced with a good deal of fidelity to the original language, while the next town over isn't even close to the original. Or they kept a partial correct pronunciation on one word and not the other in multi word names. A couple examples of things non-locals often get wrong are Presque Isle, which the locals say as "Presque Eel". There's a small gravel island with a lighthouse on it called Ile Aux Galets, which the locals just call "Skillagalee". Mackinac and Mackinaw are spelled both ways, but pronounced Mackinaw regardless. Gratiot? That's pronounced "Grash-it". Bois Blanc is known as "Bob-low." Seul Choix is "sish-wa" Tecumseh is called "Teh-COME-see." by the locals. There's even a town named Pompeii, which is pronounced "pomp-ee-EYE". I've been a lot of places in my life and never saw a pronunciation free for all anywhere else that's quite like in Michigan. It's kinda fun in its own unique way.

[@danielgroenendyk7133]

I am from Holland, Michigan and in April, 1985, a plane from my hometown carrying seven passengers crashed on Beaver Island. Two of the people killed were physicians with Holland Hospital. It was a tragic loss for my community. I remember this well because I was a student on Beaver Island attending the Central Michigan University's biology station which was located on the eastern part of the island. I spent two summers on Beaver Island and have great memories of the place and people. I knew one of the casualties in the 1985 crash. Very sad even to this day.

[@John_Montgomery]

We are from there.. I have been a fan of Juan for a long time, and the last thing I ever expected was to hear him cover something so close to home.

[@motorTranz]

May God comfort the families of those who perished in this crash. My condolences. Thank you Juan!

[@RGB06084]

Yes correct Juan! I am an ADS-B provider for Flightaware. If there's no provider in the area there will be no record of the flight after the last provider.

[@blackhawks81H]

It's highly likely that there's no provider on the island...we had nothing but dial-up internet there as late as at least 2010.. And the internet there even now isn't something where people would want to sacrifice bandwidth for those types of services, cause there's not much to go around.

[@wiedehopf9068]

ADS-B is line of sight. Most receivers feeding FA (and other tracking sites) are 1090 MHz, this aircraft was using UAT on 978 MHz, that requires an extra receiver, coverage for 978 MHz is much worse as it has few aircraft on it and isn't as interesting for hobbyists. Juan you were talking about towers, if you mean FAA ADS-B reception towers by that, only the FAA has the full data from them. If FA would get any of that it would be low time resolution and basically useless for this purpose. But it doesn't mean the FAA and by extension the NTSB can't get that data ... though i've heard it's much easier for the NTSB to get data from flight tracking sites than from the FAA .... which is a sad state of affairs.

[@deans178]

From a lifetime Northern Michigan resident near Sha-boy-gan (spelled Cheboygan), thank you for the respect you gave to Beaver Island Airways. We did our honeymoon on Beaver Island back in 1992. We've been experiencing lots of "Lake Effect" as the cold air from Canada blows across the still warm Great Lakes (Lake Michigan for Beaver Island) and that can cause instant "white-outs" with zero visibility as it did today while we drove.

[@pietekoo5559]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXTSlWCkmdZkrqc

[@MichaelOfRohan]

I dont know who the hell might not have pronounced that properly, but maybe niche is good in aviation in that respect?

[@nrth-ng9sm]

I just came back like in Cheboygan Michigan I was at the restaurant near Napa Auto Parts Main Street. They were talking about it in there how bad it was

[@ILM787]

Charlevoix (Char-le-voy)

[@CFI_Randy]

Hi "Dean S"...appreciate your comments. Best regards, Randy Passeno (...former Cheboygan resident)

[@wendygerrish4964]

Thank you for the best reporting possible. This is very tragic. Not only is the Islander a well known and reliable stol, like we had some serving NZ spots in the 70s, and beyond. Weather blah and to loose 4 or 5 souls, very awful.

[@davidhoekje7842]

I live nearby. The weather that day was blustery and highly variable. I'm very surprised small aircraft were operating. It was changing suddenly from clear and blustery to freezing rain, sleet, whiteout snowfall, and clearing with wind direction changing constantly.

[@cerealkiller5983]

Sounds very much like some very strong sudden downdraft started blowing on the runway just as the plane was about to land.

[@buckhorncortez]

Charlevoix is pronounced - Shaar-la-voy. Beaver Island is near the Straits of Mackinac (pronounced mack-in-awe) and the November weather on the big lakes can rapidly change. The Edmund Fitzgerald went down in a November gale. I have been at the Straits when the Mackinac Bridge was closed due to high winds making it unsafe for vehicles to cross the Bridge.

[@docdurdin]

Beautiful place.

[@AOGDC10]

Only a Yooper or a Troll would know that secret knowledge. Let me test you.... How do you pronounce "Sault Ste. Marie?"

[@maxium4x4]

Good overview Buckhorn and as many have stated, the Great Lakes can turn on you with little warning.

[@bschottmi]

@@AOGDC10 Soo Saint Marie, of course!

[@maxjackson1373]

@@AOGDC10 Sue - Saint - Muh-ree

[@slic59shazzamdavis85]

Sad story. RIP to the people on this flight. Thank you Juan for your report.

[@ccpperrett7522]

Thanks Juan. Condolences and prayers for the families.

[@roblachman8919]

It’s the big WHAT IF...live every day to the max and hug your love ones. RIP to those beautiful people....thinking of you on the other side of the world in Australia 🇦🇺

[@SteamCrane]

You never know when. Live today.

[@levinef]

A few things here: 1) It’s pronounced Shar-le-voy as in boy 2) The Welke’s own the airport 3) There 2 dogs on board, don’t know if they were walking around and that may change the balance 3) FlightAware relies on volunteers with ADSB receivers to provide data, they don’t always get it from the airports. In crummy weather, that reception can be problematic. 4) Beaver Island is in Lake Michigan which can be quite gusty. I was attempting to take some pictures of whitecaps today in Harbor Springs which is northwest of Charlevoix and the wind blew my camera and tripod over. 5) The pilot was new to the company, he teaches high school during the week.

[@thesidburgess]

Not really new. He's an instructor and has been flying those route since April. He does youth work but not here on the island. He has over 3k hours in the area.

[@dbearss]

looks like theyve got 5 islanders, just took delivery of a brand new build

[@ashleymessenger4758]

The weather on Beaver Island is unique, and just because the flight couldn't land on one attempt doesn't mean that conditions were not going to permit the next flight to conducted safely. It is common for one of the airports to be socked in while the other is in good VFR conditions. Plus, it is common for a flight approaching from one direction to encounter bad visibility while approaching from another is perfectly fine, especially in shower type precipitation. They make 2 to 3 round trips per hour, and rarely do any two trips encounter the same conditions. Don't rush to judge their go/no-go decision.

[@kennethrittenhouse3823]

Ashley, Thanks for pointing out the variable conditions that take place up there! I’ve sat in CVX & watched you guys go back and forth numerous times day, night year round in all kinds of conditions! This was a sad day for all Michiganders! May all involved be comforted by the hands of the creator!

[@oldmill322]

Juan, thank you for covering the BI crash, I was so hoping you would cover it. The news here has not commented on what happened.

[@j0hnnykn0xv1lle]

"We are heartbroken with the loss of my husband... He gave the best bear hugs, and I believe he grabbed our daughter and protected her. It's her last memory before the crash," Christina Perdue said.

[@tscott6843]

Sorry for your loss.

[@akb5531]

I'm so very sorry for your loss.

[@vindoll6237]

So very sorry for your loss. Prayers of strength and healing for you.

[@kentmerkle7941]

😔

[@ddvette]

Have a vacation home up there. Weather can change in minutes. Can get 3 seasons in July let alone November. Should of diverted to the airport with the ils or as you said turned around, such a short flight anyway. Thanks for covering this.

[@elizabethannferrario7113]

RIP to those who perished , condolences to families and friends, , how dreadful , as is any crash.

[@PenDragonsPig]

I used to watch Islanders in the 70s. I lived near a large RAF/USNAS airfield which had a tiny civilian airport in a far corner- a click away from where everyone was storing their sunshine pills. They used the military runways and they could probably land across the runway or on the windy (whine-dee), windy (win-dee) peri track.

[@thrice33333]

Hello Juan. I am the brother of Kate one of the deceased on this flight. I do want to give some info to clarifying your reporting. They did not go out an come back. That flight landed. Dropped off and then returned. You can tell from the time stamps. The ADS-B sometimes misinterprets this short flight as not landing. Same thing on the nov 4th date if you want to look it up. I have talked to deputy sherrif on island. The crash was witnessed. They went nose down about 20 feet up at start of run way. The weather at the time was fair. Wind was below 15 gusts to 25. Vis was good, temp was 39. There had been sleet earlier but you can see the online video from time of crash it was clear. The coast guard heli from traverse city was already up and operating about 50 miles south and they were there with in 10 minutes. They had no problems getting in and out. They could see crash from air with out problem. I am sorry to all families and people involved. This has been very hard.

[@IzNix]

Condolences at this sad time. How strong of you to take time to give additional and helpful information.

[@thesidburgess]

Agreed Josh. I was outside and just down the road when it happened. Weather was changing but it looked fine for VFR.

[@thesidburgess]

Also hugs again Josh. I'll be at all the services this weekend. Was good friends with Kate and Adam. ❤️

[@ascentimages5921]

Josh, my condolences to you on the loss of your sister. My brother-in-law was also on the flight and it's his daughter who survived. I know firsthand the pain you're going through. I am a pilot as I believe you are too. If you ever want to reach out offline please let me know.

[@myusername630]

So sorry about your loss. Like lznix I too thank you for the additional information you have given and I know Juan will also be happy for your input. May God bless you and your family during this time especially with the holiday season upon us.

[@given0fox968]

Amazing to see how many fellow northern Michiganders watch the channel, and have commented on the family. Thank you for your always respectful coverage of these losses. I don’t fly, just enjoy watching your channel.

[@jeremymcauliff2510]

Hello Juan, not sure if you're aware of it but there was another crash in Charlevoix County just a day later involving a Beechcraft twin Bonanza if I remember correctly. The destination airport was Boyne City municipal airport N98. The plane crashed into a swampy area off of Romaniak Rd in Boyne Valley Township approximately 3-4 miles short of the runway on approach.

[@LHWinfo]

Beaver Island and Northern MI are so dear to my heart. I am so saddened by this. Thank you for your excellent report on this and so many others. You’re a master at your craft and an excellent speaker.

[@31Alden]

Weather in this area of Michigan changes rather dramatically in November. R.I.P.

[@flyingfox8360]

that 45th parallel makes a HUGE difference. flat earth my ass lol.

[@31Alden]

@@flyingfox8360 Been there many times … in the dead of winter, too!

[@thurin84]

"T'was the witch of November come stealin"

[@31Alden]

@@thurin84 Indeed..

[@badmonkey2222]

When weather moves in off the lakes it moves in fast and hard, can go from 60° and sunny to heavy snow squalls and 25° within a matter of 5 minutes with fierce winds as well, especially this time of year when the lake water is still relatively warm and you get powerful cold fronts coming down from Canada.

[@geezerhull]

sounds like prime conditions for ice. don't believe the islander can handle that very well. Am I wrong? I don't know.

[@davidobyrne9549]

Thanks Juan for your detailed and concise interpretation of the facts as they are presently known.

[@myusername630]

I appreciate Juan too. And like you I was born and raised in Michigan for 53 years. It was surprising to see Juan cover this so fast and very much appreciated. I started watching Juan way before he borrowed his wife's name and it was his multi aircraft knowledge that kept my attention on him. I don't think there are many people who understand all the skills and knowledge he has. He is in his prime prime years now and a lot emotional times will be coming up for him as he continues to get older but I know that he will keep going and then have many years to document and pass forward his knowledge of flying to the young ones coming. I hope you all continue to support him and that he continues to grow his college like he has with Capt Pete. He has a lot to teach our replacements in the flying business.

[@micamp45hc99]

This is a local tragedy. Paul and Angel are the best people, give you the shirt off their backs. Would also never hesitate to fly injured/sick people off the island at 3am. Juan, Paul was also an accomplished WWII pilot. I've been back in forth to the Island so many times, I'm sure I've been on the accident aircraft at some point. This one hurts. God Bless you Paul and Angel, I know you are just sick with grief right now. Prayers to all involved.

[@micamp45hc99]

@@ryanthomas2472 Ryan thank you for the correction. I always thought the display at Welke Airport was Paul's stuff. Thank you sir.

[@cambo1200]

A coworker of mine had just spent time hanging out with Kate and Adam, he said they were a great couple and fun to hang out with. Live every day like it’s your last!

[@SteamCrane]

@djderk No, you get stuff done, but have more fun doing it.

[@tgmccoy1556]

Worked for a little commuter in NE Oregon. They had two. Never flew one. Good reliable airframe.

[@normadesmond9659]

Also lost in the crash were 2 family pets, dogs Frank and Baker. Prayers for all involved.

[@2345allthebest]

wonder if they were named after Frank "Home Run" Baker ... RIP to all

[@MikeBrown-ex9nh]

I always hate to hear about pets killed in accidents. They had no choice to go or not go.

[@teddrewflack400]

@@MikeBrown-ex9nh I’ve found my dogs always jump in with me and go crazy if I leave them at home for short trips . Dogs just love being around.

[@kylenobes1]

Juan - the aircraft may have landed during the previous flight. There is a 10 minute gap on ADS-B data. The same thing happened on previous flights (11/1 for example).

[@n326dpcherokeesix5]

Thank you for the quick reporting on this accident, Juan. Paul is an absolute legend on the island. His organization provides a critical lifeline to its residents. Incredibly tragic for this entire, close nit, community.

[@james-faulkner]

So all you have to do to be a legend, is fly a plane. People there must be pretty simple.

[@n326dpcherokeesix5]

James, do a little research on the guy before you demonstrate your ignorance…

[@raycoleman3183]

@@james-faulkner you must be a very unhappy person…..sorry that you are. but you really have no excuse for being such a mean spirited jerk towards others …….

[@vk2ig]

@@raycoleman3183 Sadly, he has form. He did the same thing in another comment thread when a guy told about his fiance being killed in a plane crash a week before Xmas. Some people ...

[@raycoleman3183]

@@vk2ig yes, I saw that comment, and a couple more, before I posted my statement. thank you for your comment.

[@KL7EN]

Juan, ADS-B to be seen on ATC radar or the Web apps requires the aircraft to be either seen by radar or an ADS-B tower, both are basically line of site.

[@carltrano1325]

Deepest condolences to all involved and family.

[@Rev1Kev]

I was wondering if you were going to cover this one, it’s less than an hour from me.

[@goatflieg]

There has been a spate of downed aircraft in Michigan recently; four by my count. I knew some of these people; two were based at my airport (PTK) and one was a close friend (I sent you an email about him). We're all reeling from this. Thanks for sharing you knowledge and for helping us work through this.

[@asteverino8569]

Eloquent and human report, Juan. I’m not a pilot but “get it” from your reporting. Anyway, enough pats on the back. Your channel is great.

[@werecow68]

As always thanks for taking the time to go through some of the details Juan. Charlevoix is pronounced Char-la-voy. Keep up the great work sir and very happy to see you are flying again!

[@eliotmansfield]

asdb data is collected by hobbyists. It’s line of sight, so a plane high up can be received from 200+ miles away, if the receiver is far away, as the plane gets lower there’s no longer a line of sight and it drops off the system

[@thenorthboundproject6187]

Condolences to those family and friends related to this accident. Wondering if Ron had any info on the F-16 crash that happened in upper Michigan about a year ago now…. Thanks for your hard work on this channel!

[@StillRunningWithPointedSticks]

Thank you for your nearly judgement free analysis with your reporting. Hindsight is always 20/20. And yet never 20/15.

[@williammiller2507]

Hello, has there been any update the N866JA, it has been well over a year and still not results of the investigation.

[@livenfree]

Wondering if you could do an update on the findings from the final reports from this crash?

[@WindwardToEden]

Well, based on pronunciations, your not from around here. LOL. We knew everyone on the crash, as did everyone who lives on Beaver Island. We are a small community. The flight stories we could tell! We have flown to Trout island, heck...my kids even fly with Island Airways for EVERY school sports game, throughout the UP and throughout the winter. Even after this accident, we trust them that much. Paul is a heck of a pilot, legendary even. Island Airways is also used as our "medi-vac" here on the island. Seeing the wreckage just after it happened was heartbreaking. One thing I want to say though, is my wife and I have flown probably 15 times since the accident, and my kids over 30...and Island Airways is still the safest airline, with the safest planes on the island...Hands down. -The De Laat Family of Beaver Island.

[@francisschweitzer8431]

I was in Southern Michigan in my Semi truck and the lake affect snow was hauling the mail..... temps and wind were changing fast

[@karlscribner7436]

Thanks for the report Juan. As you mention the Island Airline and Welke family are as legendary as Beaver Island, once ruled as a separate kingdom by a fellow King Strand. Further information as you can provide will surely please what a great fan base you seem to have here in Michigan. Thanks and be safe.

[@DAVIDBrown-zp8sz]

Thanks Juan. The Kathryn's link is very informative

[@stephengray1585]

I did a lot of flying (as a passenger) on the northwest coast of Canada (primarily seaplanes) and i got into the habit of not continuing my flight if we had a failed attempt due to weather. I have seen to many flights go down due to bad weather and pilots pushing the limits. The majority of the pilots were very good and appreciated for their common sense but there was always the ones that I like to call the cowboys and i would refuse to fly with them and rebook my flight. Gratefully still around, retired and not required to fly anywhere like that area anymore. These kind of accidents really hit small communities hard.

[@sawning3449]

Yes!! Much though I admire their can-do spirit, it comes from not knowing how many times in past they've been an angel's eyelash away from disaster.

[@bernardanderson3758]

My condolences to the lost and hope for the best for the survivor

[@daveluttinen2547]

A appreciate your report on this crash. It is very sad. An 11 year old girl is the only survivor. Her father protected her somehow when it went down and likely saved her life. RIP to the deceased; prayers for peace to the families.

[@jamesvaughn4794]

A tragic loss. Prayers to all family and friends. Keep it High Juan.

[@peterawlinson8210]

What has happen to the B777 with the Pratt 400 fan blade problems ? thanks : Pete

[@veritasetlibertas7889]

A great airplane! They have been used for years and years from Puerto Rico to the other islands. I flew the 3-engine version, the Tri-Islander to the Virgin Islands for a more than a year.

[@gregtoman7678]

My guess, and this is only a guess, is that wildlife on the runway may have been a factor. I fly into this airport myself, and turkeys and other birds (and possibly deer) are the biggest threat to damaging your airplane. I wonder if the pilot attempted an abrupt go-around from low speed, which could result in loss of control if one engine did not respond a quickly as the other, and he was below minimum single engine speed, and maybe not super quick on the rudder. It is hard to imagine a fatal accident during landing in such a good flying and strong airplane. Some type of very unusual situation, such as this, would seem likely to be the cause. Inadvertent flight into instrument conditions is unlikely to result in the airplane crashed next to the runway, and is especially easy to execute as there are no obstacles over the lake, and few to worry about over the island.

[@CFI_Randy]

Possible and credible analysis, Greg. This (...like many others) is a sad one. Best regards, Randy

[@blackhawks81H]

@FlyingIceman Islanders don't really vmc roll. The combination of the incredibly low stall speed and the giant tail on it pretty much means it will always just stall without loss of directional control like a vmc roll. In fact, as far as I remember the vmc on an Islander is almost always below its stall speed. Which itself is like 40kts with full flaps.

[@blackhawks81H]

@FlyingIceman But with that being said, it basically makes your theory of just a regular old stall even more likely. Regardless of the reason. However it's just making me feel so horrible that 4 out of 5 people died. That seems insane given the aforementioned incredibly low stall speed. If if did stall, it must have had time to get some altitude before going down. I've seen islander crashes in other countries where it's a pretty damn hard hit and people walk away. I wonder was there impact with a tree at some point? I literally used to live on that island, and work at that very Airport. I've been on that very plane 866JA more times than I could count over the last 30+ years.. And I just can't wrap my head around it. We'll have to just wait for the report, because I've talked to people there on the island and gotten 5 different stories that all differ quite a bit. Just such massive heartbreak all around though. I can tell you for sure none of us ever thought we'd see this day. Everyone on the island counts on and depends on those planes so much. The ferry boat stops running for a good 3 solid months in the winter, and when that happens the Islanders are literally everyone's lifeline.. The mail, freight, supplies.. Everything from stock for the grocery store, to the beer sold in the bars comes on the plane when the boat is laid up for the winter.

[@gregtoman7678]

@@blackhawks81H I wondered what Vmc was, and took a quick look for it but couldn't find it. I had assumed it uncontrollably rolled to the point one wing hit and then cart-wheeled it, but I have yet to see a photo of the airplane, so even that is just speculation on my part.

[@robinsullivan3141]

We were at Beaver Island first weekend in June and the weather was intermittently stormy. Guys came into our hotel a little shaken from their flight. Those flights can be a bit of a bucking bronco. Heartfelt condolences to all the families and friends.

[@runeburdahl7141]

You are right about the operating conditions of these aircraft. I flew BN 2 s in northern manitoba for Northwinds Northern in 1990-91. The a/c 's were made in 1965, 10000 hours on the airframe by the time I flew them 30 years later.They were constantly flown overweight to make money for the customer, You get the picture. Weather was usually the main challenge. As You point out, it may be a factor. Or an engine problem, overheating due to mag working loose?

[@MySparkle888]

The weather is this part of the world in November can turn so bad so quickly it can take down 700+ foot lake freighters.

[@lightningdemolition1964]

When the winds of November come early

[@JoeJones-jk38_yrs]

Juan, another great analysis of the accident. The name of the city of origin is Charlevoux (Sharlevoy) Keep up the good work.

[@sithticklefingers7255]

Thanks for the breakdown as always Juan. Beaver Island is a beautiful little spot. Great people and great seafood. Our family flew to the municipal airport in a club Piper Dakota back in 2009. By the way, the origin airport is pronounced CHAR-lah-voy.

[@robertkirchner7981]

In French it would be sharleh-VWAH. Sort of.

[@sithticklefingers7255]

@@robertkirchner7981 granted, but we don’t say Detwah (Detroit), unless we’re joking around. French place-names settled by (mostly) Dutch peasants gets you the colloquial pronunciation I described.

[@flightsimman]

As some else pointed out, Charlevoix is “Char-la-voy”. As a former entry level meteorologist at NWS Gaylord (pronounced Gaylerd), you had to learn these French names quickly so you didn't sound like an idiot on the phone or when giving a briefing 😂.

[@flybyairplane3528]

JUAN, HI,,,,Thanks for that update, I had NOT heard locally of this accident. RIP to the lost&their families. YesTHE BN 2 ISLANDER, is certainarily purpose driven,for the mission, been a pax on many in the CARRIBEAN , STRICTLY BRAKES,,,,, 2 LYCOMING FLAT 6 S &2 blade props . 🇬🇧🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@dansw0rkshop]

SHAR luh voy is how we pronounce Charlevoix. Very close tho, good job Juan, thanks for the report. This is close to us.

[@sams2960]

Shar la voi An hour south we had snow/rain mist .... possible icing issue? happens fast this time of year here.

[@digdug1577]

always informative even when you're not at your headquarters juan. your respect for the operators and empathy really show. is there a fine line for these weather related crashes in hindsight you shouldn't go we're in reality after you've flown that mission for 30 years in the weather's just coming in and you're right on the edge you have to make a judgment call and it's that one time you're wrong. blessings to everyone. and much respect. ❤️🙏

[@vk2ig]

I'm told by pilots who flew in Papua New Guinea that a similar thing occurs there. People fly the same route for years, then one day the clouds are "wrong" and they fly into the mountainside beside the valley they thought they were flying into. Very sad.

[@craigpennington1251]

More horrifying statistics on the ongoing tragic general aviation losses. Deepest condolences for the families that lost their loved ones. Thanks Juan for reporting numerous crashes on something that should not be. A very high number over the past year. God Bless you & keep you close. PAY ATTENTION so none has to report yours. PLEASE.

[@Fintoy]

I have a question that is not related to this case. What would happen if plane flies through dumped fuel?

[@SteamCrane]

Fatal runway accident at Laughlin AFB friday. 2 T-38C's, 1 pilot dead, 2 others injured.

[@billcull610]

Thanks again Juan. Good info. Illuminates a number of reasons why to stay on ground if weather is closing in.

[@mikeschultze3135]

Details are important. I've read in comments here, the aircraft landed with a quick turnaround. If the info is correct then this is a possible RTO? My first thought was CFIT, now I'm wondering what really happened and phase of flight.

[@cebunting]

Did you look at the few flights the day before? MX test flights?

[@santiagobenites]

Sad news. RIP to those who didn't make it, and good thoughts and for surviving passenger.

[@hilaryren]

I remember looking from distance distance off the E. Side Dr. seeing the plane wreck

[@Jalu3]

Weather/environment will win, if you give it enough chances. Like how Bryant was insistent about taking off in bad weather.

[@parrotraiser6541]

The Islander's a lovely little machine, as simple as an aircraft can be. We'll just have to wait for some data.

[@sueloo8305]

"A" for effort Mr. Browne... It is pronounced. "CHAR-LA-VOY'.. (Rhymes with " boy'). We do have some strange town pronunciations here in my home state. It even stumps me occasionally 💯👁️😜. Thank you so very much for covering this. Safe travels to you and blue 🔵 skies my friend... Blue 💙 skies ✈️✈️✈️

[@SteamCrane]

I had been sending info on GA crashes, but there's just too many of them to keep up. AQP anyone?

[@VirtualJMills]

FlightAware might still have a volunteer contributor program (cost offset) for islands like that, where they don't have good coverage?

[@2011mendo]

Bad deal!!! Theses small taxi service fill a great void. No way a major airline will take these cities on, understandingly, so it's these types of folks that keep some of those small business going. Only Alaska, that I know of, there is more folks flying than driving to keep their lives going on

[@flyerdon3116]

Does the grass runway have runway lights?

[@erwinschmidt7265]

Juan - Thanks for prompt report on this tragedy. I'm from MI but now live in FLA. Can confirm FAA/NTSB operate rather oddly up there as recent as early to mid 90's. Had microburst/windshear/downdraft incident in G.R. where airliner Capt ID'd problem on approach at ZERO MPH ground speed keyed by MDOT pickup. His actions exemplarily, saving all aboard & some of plane. GRPD arrested him while pulling oak limbs out of plane's belly for tampering w/evidence, leaving scene of accident, & joyriding plane. Capt dragged thru terminal to FAA in Tower, who pulled his tickets. Airline suspended him until investigated. NTSB had NWS certify no windshear, downdraft or microburst possible at subject location. Pilot error cause of incident per NTSB. Airline still pissed as entire cabin crew injured, First Ofcr still thought he was dead, & liner was a mess. Capt was Senior Pilot, so not fired, but suspended until retrained plus flight tested on every type airline flew, and holder of new tickets ALL ON CAPT'S NICKEL, with one condition. That was he never brought up subject from investigation where claimed he had communicated w/orange MDOT pickup warning him of downdraft, never flew back towards Lansing to communicate further with MDOT Employee on way back to G.R., and never ever waved piece of paper on side window thanking him for his service! So, much better than Fired for Cause, Capt chose compliance although it took years & forced to further investigate incident himself. Back in saddle '96 at TPA just before Thanksgiving, Capt & First strode in Pilot's Lounge, but buttonholed by SW Air Capt w/brand new First Officer asking to recite tale of G.R. to newbie. All four sat at table and Capt. began tale of G.R., but had forgotten order of emergency actions he took to save liner. Cheeky old dude sitting across from them butted in with "You went full throttles, gear up, more flaps, dipped nose slightly, and plummeted into woods". Capt big guy so stood up leaning over table glaring as said "And how the hell would you know that?'! Man answered "I'm the ahole you mentioned in the MDOT pickup, I have I.D." as he handed it to Capt. Capt glanced at I.D., teared up saying "I've been looking a while for you, would you like to sit at our table?" MDOT employee broke and had left Cadillac MI on Mission from God to rescue Dad w/heart attack in Hamilton Indiana driving folks rest of way to winter home near Tampa, so wore old clothes, tattered jacket, work boots, and had already ordered Hamburger Special, but none of that bothered Capt saying "You look like a T-Bone man to me Sir....we'll donate your burger to someone that needs it, take a seat!". They relived G.R. experience w/MDOT dude recording all particulars on hard stock dinner napkin, signing it with I.D.'s and all four Pilots witnessed signature. Spring '97 MDOT employee recalled and alone in office at end of lunchtime when Deputy Director phoned for Project Engineer, told not back yet, but Deputy Director said Investigator could talk to employee by name. Same employee so totally screwed having driven pickup in manner that would require firing, but Deputy Director not hostile & Investigator just wanted to speak to him. That napkin had made it's way to NTSB and Investigator was sitting there with copy of napkin, time card, and travel voucher. Once everything certified to be on up and up, Investigator said "Okay, looks like MDOT accidentally certified none of their vehicles near scene of incident, so Capt will get all his retraining costs refunded together with lost pay during suspension, upwards of $300,000!". Investigator further said "The Napkin" was put on display titled "Never Stop Investigating" behind glass at NTSB Bldg Lobby in Washington D.C. one morning for display as ordered by NTSB Director. After breaking for lunch from auditorium, they couldn't get attendees back in there as clawing their way closer to "The Napkin"! MDOT employee not fired after all for at least a dozen infractions, and life went on for all including Passengers, First Officer, and Capt so competent and quick, I'm sure he could have NYC's Hudson Sully bring him his coffee!! A total aside from this is NWS placed one of their first Doppler Radar sites at G.R., only way to be sure!! Oh yeah, GRPD took off Capt's cuffs per FAA request on day of incident, & eventually dropped charges of Arresting Officer! Just thought ya might want to know how NTSB/FAA & Cops operate up there, as truth may or may not come out in their investigation's report, so you may have to help them!! I retired in 2010 but still drive a pickup truck!! Sorry comment so long. Thanks for all you do Sir Juan!!!

[@scottfranco1962]

ADS-B is limited by line of sight just as any high frequency signal. The good news is that ADS-B signals can be received by anyone with an ADS-B receiver. The "official" ADS-B receivers are kept by the FAA, usually at the same locations as radar sites, but that may be changing. This is nowadays augmented by private network receivers, usually amateurs who simply put up a receiver on top of their house, gather ADS-B data, and sent it on to collectors via the internet. Those are the guys that give you those aircraft locator phone and web sites. So the main factor here I suspect is the remoteness of the site. The island is unlikely to have an FAA ADS-B receiver site, and unlikely to have a private ADS-B receiver as well. So you are probably getting ADS-B from the mainland. Past that it depends on if the source data is FAA or private. The altitude limitation is going to be mainly due to ground reception issues from the mainland. Axiomatically you can get ADS-B information at any altitude, including ground level, since we can see aircraft on the ground with ADS-B. But of course that is seeing another airplane at the same airport.

[@tscott6843]

A real tragedy. Thank you for the quick video with everything known at the time. I expect you’ll do a follow up when the time comes. Condolences to those who lost someone in this crash.

[@donaldreach760]

FYI, we Michiganders pronounce Charlevoix as "Shar la voy". Many French names in our state due to early explorers ie: Gratiot is Gra shut.

[@timmotel5804]

"No not Go"! Same with John Kennedy Jr. Even much better experienced pilots wouldn't fly that afternoon/evening that he did. Thanks for this update. I've been waiting for information.

[@MikeBrown-ex9nh]

Similar to the Kobe Bryant crash, as well.

[@ascentimages5921]

I can confirm this wasn't a VFR into IMC accident.

[@gschgvt2956]

Jr wasn't an accident. You don't shut the fuel off in a disoriented accident.

[@mariuskuhrau761]

Juan, I just saw the tragic drag racing incident that happened at the Kerrville Airport. So sad that 2 children were killed because of very poor safety at this event.

[@CaptainT8TR]

Charlevoix is pronounced CharlevoY! weird, I know. Yet another great video. This one hits close to home as I live just an hour south in TVC and often see their aircraft down here and used to fly up there regularly when I was flying charter.

[@bobroberts2371]

3:30 How does that grass / paved runway cross over work? Which runway maintains a continuous surface? On the grass strip I see ovals on the dark green portion that appear to be usable runway making it appear that the paved strip is continuous.

[@blackhawks81H]

The paved strip is continuous. There's a little paved semi-intersection right at the point the two runways intersect consisting of very gradually sloping asphalt transitions between the two surfaces, but it's all very flat/flush so there isn't really a "bump" or anything. I worked there in the past so if you have any further questions just go ahead and ask.

[@shaneboulds5240]

Thanks for doing this one! There was another that went down on Monday on approach to N98. Both of these accidents happened in my airspace

[@tomjoseph1444]

Just curious, is this the same Island Airways that used to fly Ford Tri-motors up into the 70's? I got some stick time in a Ford about then and was looking into them. Shame when any aircraft goes down.

[@SteamCrane]

That Island Airways is out of Port Clinton Ohio. There used to be a Ford dealership near the airport named "Tri Motors".

[@bryanst.martin7134]

Hi Juan, Pilots should not rely on historical weather values anymore. We just came out of the GSM, and into a very active cycle including massive flares and ejecta. I would be watching the Solar activity on a daily basis in order to anticipate weather anomalies that may alter typical weather patterns. In Navy Aviation we were routinely informed: complacency kills. I'm certain the weather will worsen, I advise those relying on it to be a lot more critical these days. Fly safe Amigo.

[@oldguy4833]

flown on and off the island with these folks over the last 15 years - great people - professional operation - shocked to hear of this event!!!!

[@daviator4720]

Pilot incapacitation ? CFIT ? Or less likely icing related ? I flew the Islanders and Tri-Islanders in Turks and Caicos years ago. Very reliable and stable aircraft. But the ones I flew did NOT have boots on wings or props.

[@SteamCrane]

Suspect the condition of the boots will be in the investigation.