BECMI: The Other Basic D&D

[@jeremydurdil556]

I started playing D&D in 1987. I bought myself the red box set from my local hobby store, Wings in Lakewood, Ohio. The red box taught me to play and how to DM. Within days I was running a game with my friends. I kept at it and got the expert blue box and companion teal box sets. The simplicity of the system allowed me to modify the game in whatever way I could imagine. I saw the advanced line but immediately realized that it didn’t bring anything to the table I couldn’t just create myself. I therefore never left BECMI. It has been 37 years since that humble beginning. Life marching along saw me with a military career, wife, kids, etc. There wasn’t always time to play and the game got shelved for decades. It was patient though and waited for my return. About 7 years ago, I started back up running a winter campaign with my wife, (now adult) youngest daughter and her husband, brother in law, and a handful of friends. Loving it more than ever as an adult, I am so glad I never got rid of my collection. These days I run 2 groups. A winter league and a summer league. Both exist in the same persistent Mystara world. After 3 years of play it is wonderful fun for the groups to hear rumors about each other and see the impact they have made on the world. The emergent story never ceases to amaze me. My summer league plays tonight. We will be conducting a trial to determine the fate of party. They were caught breaking into the church of Karamiekos. I hope everyone out there gets a chance to play with a great group someday. There is nothing else quite like it. BECMI forever! Long Live King Elmore!!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

What an awesome post. Great story and introducing the whole family is the best. Also, Magistrate Mentzer would likely agree with your sign off 😉

[@MrSteveK1138]

To paraphrase the late John Houseman: "BECMI Dungeons and Dragons. You gain levels and abilities the old fashioned way. You EARN them."

[@booksbricksandboards783]

lol, yeah no Milestone leveling in BECMI!

[@MietoK]

Aleena the Cleric, never forget 😢

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Bargle, the destroyer of young men’s dreams for nigh on 40 years now.

[@VictorQueirozPlayer]

Hi Justin, it's me again, so I started playing RPG with D&D BECMI, which here in Brazil became known as grow's D&D (since grow was the company, it translated and brought the black box here to Brazil) I remember that I started playing with a friend of mine, he received it from his uncle who traveled to the United States and brought it as a gift for him, as soon as I played the first time I was amazed by the game, the idea of ​​creating my character and his story developing within the game It was too innovative for me at the time, I remember that my first character was Vrox, a Human Fighter and he lasted a few sessions but he was killed by a horde of Goblins but he managed to make his friends escape to fight another day. Anyway, I still have a lot of affection for this version of the game and I have both the basic book and the rules encyclopedia printed at home. Great video as always!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Thanks again Victor! RPG’s are a great way to find shared experiences across continents and cultures!

[@agilemonk6305]

Absolutely great video. Brought back lots of great memories. Started in ‘74/75 with OD&D and went on to all of these sets. Sweet. ❤

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Thank you Monk, I hope that my synopsis of the history of the game was fair and accurate.

[@deeebeee1758]

My IRL group played Rules Cyclopedia for years (actually.... decades - wow) and it is all you need as a base to work from. It does not include Immortal, though, which never bothered us at all. Kudos for calling out BECMI Berserker; his coverage of BECMI stuff is great. Good stuff, man.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Berserker is awesome… he has gone deeper with that line than I would have thought possible. I just wonder what he will come up with, as it feels like he has covered 90% of the topic already. 😀

[@stevenkennedy4130]

Fun stuff! My 1st item was the Holmes box set. Thanks for the share!!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I never had Holmes, but have read a lot about it.

[@spacerx]

For those of us who were about to start high school when you were getting ready to start kindergarten, the "other" basic D&D was Holmes.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I did actually talk about the Holmes set in the video, and attributed its writing to Eric. I have read it… ironically, even it has received the full retro clone treatment with Blueholme.

[@spacerx]

@@booksbricksandboards783 Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that by the time BECMI came out , it seemed that by and large, everyone I knew was playing AD&D. Also, maybe you left them off on purpose, but there are two RC retroclones: Dangers & Dweomers and Dark Dungeons. No idea really how good either is.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

@spacerx yeah, seems like if you played anything but AD&D there was the “kids stuff” stigma. I didn’t realize that those two were RC clones. I guess they don’t get much love due to the fact RC was pretty well organized and laid out already. Thanks for sharing and giving me some knowledge!

[@agilemonk6305]

@@spacerx correct.

[@spacerx]

@@booksbricksandboards783 It's kind of a shame. I think the D&D line was better than AD&D personally, and if I ever went back to playing pre-2000 D&D rules, that's what I'd use. And while I never really played BECMI much myself, the Larry Elmore art is some of the most iconic that the game has ever produced. If nothing else, they were certainly the most attractive rules.

[@Argroh]

My first "Real" encounter with BECMI is well, something one might find unexpected. I first stumbled upon a game called Sword World, which I then got kinda focused on, so I looked back at the origins of it and then BAM, found out the origin of it started with a replay of BECMI D&D, thus my interest in it. I know eventually, I intend to nab PoD versions of the various books for it. also, the replay in question being the "Record of Lodoss War"

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I have never watched it, but I definitely heard of it. Sword World, if I recall, was the basis for the Goblin Slayer RPG, which I do have, and an anime that I have watched lol. 😉

[@simontemplar3359]

I'm not just saying this because I like you: your channel is a gem. Your perspective is invaluable; you aren't a shill; and you cover interesting topics. I also appreciate how you clearly know TTRPGs. You know how there's lots of people who know D&D but that's it? And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against them. I'm a recreational musician and what I've learned is that there are gate keepers everywhere. You know that guy who doesn't respect anyone who hasn't played as long as they have? That guy. Or like they need to quiz people and all that... nobody's got time for that. With that said though, I value the perspective of someone who has been in the hobby and understands it more broadly and the wider philosophical and design currents that have impacted it. So I really appreciate what you do here. Also the Discord is great to be part of as well!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

What a good dude you are! Hey, comments like this one make it worthwhile. By the time I buy stuff specifically to talk about on the channel (not all but some of it), it definitely doesn’t break even (YET!). So what makes the time, the money and the effort worth it, interactions like this. Made my day buddy!

[@strawberryhellcat4738]

BECMI was my game for over a decade (our neighborhood had a Shannon). The house rules were neighborhood rules used by every kid taking a turn as DM, and as far as THAC0 goes, it was "super easy, barely an inconvenience". Honestly, if 8-12 year olds can figure it out, why is it so scary? I've played 5e, but it didn't give me the same sense of freedom and grit, though Rune Hammer's 5e Hardcore Rules made it a lot better. We recently switched from 5e to OSE for our primary game (yep, using THAC0 too), but downloading BECMI from DriveThru is really tempting.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

At 2.99 per box, I’m considering getting them too, even though I have the RC original and PDF, and the Wrath of the Immortals boxed set…for $15 I can have the boxes too. Tempting for sure!

[@chrislukasak8530]

Came here on the advice of Mentzer himself. Good stuff!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

He is quite the guy! Thank you.

[@paavohirn3728]

I'm very happy to have my sets next to me on the shelf. Or to be more precise the B and E were from my dear friend since lost to time who first pulled my into these worlds in the 89-90. I really loved the skills introduced in the Gazetteers (Dawn of the Emperors box is the one I have) though currently in happier without a comprehensive skill system.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

My BECMI time was spent mostly in B & E, as we only made it to the Companion set about a year before 2nd Edition released. By the time we got to the Companion set, we were pretty much each doing our own sessions focused on our kingdoms, and coming together only for world changing events. That is AWESOME that you have such a great way to remember your friend, what a fitting tribute. I just was told that the father of a friend of mine that recently passed is going to be giving me one of his books, and that is truly something beyond any material value. As to the skills, I like the skill system, but I also like that it seems MUCH more optional than the Non-Weapon Proficiency from AD&D 2e (even though it is also optional, the Complete Handbook Series made it much less optional).

[@paavohirn3728]

@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh yeah! I didn't get to play or run BECMI that much but it will always be special for me. B and E were played but I did give my players a good monty haul from the magic items in C 😆

[@freddaniel5099]

Nice coverage of an outstanding product line. It wasn't my first D&D, but Red Box Basic became my preferred version once it arrived. The presentation, art, writing and layout just seemed to all come together with Red Box (BECMI). I eventually moved on to play other TTRPGs to the exclusion of D&D, but looking back BECMI holds up well, I think. Cheers!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

And of course it had that dastardly Bargle! Thanks for sharing and the kind words Fred. Have a great weekend!

[@anon_laughing_man]

I started with the Mentzer Basic classic Red Box at age 8 in 1983. My best friends older brother bought this new game called Dungeons and Dragons. He needed players so we were recruited. Man, that was the stuff. We went through so many characters. Died? We just rolled up new ones. Good times. Decades later, still playing D&D.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Anon, absolutely… I remember having a binder of characters for the inevitability of losing one every now and then, and each of us were actively playing 3-4 at a time, with parties of 10-12 characters. I think one of the reasons that modern systems are very hesitant to kill a character is that creation takes so bloody long now, in BECMI, 3d6 down the line 6 times and you have a new character… when a character died in my PF2e game a few months ago, it took half a session for the player to replace him… ground the game to a halt. This is magnified now, because players know the chance of death is low, and they put so much time into creating a narrative before the dice are ever rolled, that some DM’s (not this one) are hesitant to let one die even when the rules suggest they should… it’s a difference in eras, but also has a mechanical element. Thanks for sharing!

[@lojakz]

I was fortunate enough to get an original Rules Cyclopedia 20 years ago for $20 bucks. I really want to run a BECMI game. Just need to convince my play group into it.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Very cool.

[@AceneDean]

Man, what I wouldnt give for a full GavinNormanization of the Rules Cyclopedia.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

And the rest of the TSR line up to boot, including Marvel.

[@sebastianstark8517]

@@booksbricksandboards783 Oh man... this would be awesome.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

@@sebastianstark8517 and you know, 15 years ago, no one would have expected to have the options we have today for high quality retro clones, so never say never!

[@BlackJar72]

I like BECMI from the era when Gary Gygax and Frank Mentzer were still there -- the boxed sets and early modules (including those inherited from B/X). These days, I prefer the basic and expert levels, but with the tweaks from BECMI (other than the thief nerfing, which I don't use, substituting B/X plus an unofficial expansion Frank Mentzer created in more recent years). For those new to D&D and RPGs Mentzer's basic set is the best for both new players and new DMs as they keep it simple for those just learning.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I agree with that statement. I learned from BECMI, before playing AD&D 2e. Had I started with AD&D 1e, without a ‘guide’, my experience would not have been the same. Now I can appreciate what Gary did with AD&D, but as a fresh eyed newbie, I would have likely been overwhelmed as presented… I can see why they put Holmes on the project of creating an entry point product! Now, Old School Essentials is a solid starting point, though it is written more as a ‘reference work’ than a ‘how to’.

[@GlenHallstrom]

Very good but there is a retro-clone of BECMI - Dark Dungeons by Blacky the Blackball is a good clone of BECMI (well, Rules Cyclopedia but that counts, right?).

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Glenn, welcome back, another viewer pointed me to Dark Dungeons earlier, which had flown under my radar. I suppose I just missed it, but with me being on the hunt for OSR content, and to have not heard about it, I don’t think it has gotten as much attention as the bigger clones (OSE, Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, BFRPG, LOTFP, ACKS, OSRIC, etc). My honest first take when told about it earlier, perhaps because the RC has a POD option now, and unlike some of the other retro clone source material, was already very well laid out and edited, the clone version didn’t get as much attention? Just my take, could also very well be it flew under my radar too 😉🤣! Either way, as you would say, “it’s good dang it!”

[@DeadMarsh]

Awesome video

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Thank you DeadMarsh! BECMI is always a fun topic to discuss because it brings back good memories of when it was all new to me.

[@because4337]

Have you heard about ACKS II? It's based on BX, but it has alot of the upward mobility of switching to domain rule and apotheosis.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I had ACKS 1, but don’t know much about the 2nd edition.

[@because4337]

@booksbricksandboards783 They took the time to combine and update/streamline a lot of the rules and separate everything from the OGL.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I enjoyed the first edition.

[@iamnottim.]

YES! While AD&D was the 1st game I ever played (at the age of 14), BECMI was the system I played the most as a teen and my 1st TTRPG love.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Like minds Tim!

[@jaykaye594]

Damn, I miss Dungeon Magazine.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Amen to that! You can still occasionally pick up old copies in good shape at Noble Knight. Since they always seem to have 4-5 adventures, just a few go a long way.

[@jaykaye594]

@@booksbricksandboards783@ booksbricksandboards783 The shipping cost is too much for my tastes. Next time I am over though.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Understood. I am generally getting free shipping when I pick those up, as I add them to a larger order. Have a handful of Dragon Magazines, and 4-5 Dungeon Magazines. I like to pull them out and read the letters to the editor, the reviews and the ads as much as anything…

[@brunlin6629]

Dungeon, Dragon, and Poly-zine aka Polyhedron the official Zine for the RPGA

[@booksbricksandboards783]

@@brunlin6629 forgot about Polyhedron.

[@marcraygun6290]

As much as i love Becmi the thief is an issue , its something lamentations of the flame princess sorted out with the specialist

[@booksbricksandboards783]

You and I think alike. I have a lot of thoughts on the BECMI thief in my Building With BECMI series. Lol

[@marcraygun6290]

@booksbricksandboards783 well sir I leave for my nightshift in an hour and shall watch this video of yours on the thief with great interest

[@marcraygun6290]

It's the best version, where I started in 87 at age 11

[@booksbricksandboards783]

My start as well! If you haven’t, you should check out my Building With BECMI playlist. I cover the core line, and starting to cover expanded line this weekend.

[@georgewilson2575]

I always liked Mentzer's edition better than Moldvay's.

[@georgewilson2575]

But Holmes' was what I cut my teeth on. I was taught to play by a guy who learned to play in England, and our style of play was very different from the way people currently play.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I never played Moldvay Cook until I was an adult, my childhood was Mentzer and 2e.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I think every table had its own take… my first DM was using Mentzer BEC, but adding bits from Oriental Adventures and AD&D adventure module pieces (always inserted in his own world), as well as homebrew stuff.

[@georgewilson2575]

@booksbricksandboards783 I used to mine all the editions, modules, Dragon articles, Judges Guild products, Harn, etc for ideas.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Judges Guild was based about 50 miles from where I grew up.

[@steambub]

I would say that ACKS2 will be the spiritual successor to BECMI.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I have ACKS, but have not stayed up with the 2nd edition. Is it adding quite a bit of content?

[@steambub]

@@booksbricksandboards783 Off the top of my head, custom class, race, and monster builders, cleaning up some of the math at domain play, PC death tribute for bonus XP with the PC.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I like the original, took forever to find a copy 😉

[@joe495-m2t]

Still have my original books

[@booksbricksandboards783]

My original BECMI books unfortunately burned when my folks lost their house… that said, I downloaded PDF’s of all the boxes, including the two I never had before, and printed them off and placed them in one massive binder.

[@pralinor]

There is one thing that I don't like in the cover. One hero and a dragon! It is D&D a group of heroes and a dragon this is what we need XD If I recall correctly they did the same mistake in ADD2 with the guy and dragon. the cover I recall for ADD was a bunch of heroes stealing a gem o,n a statue and having killed a gobelin. Other than that good video XD

[@booksbricksandboards783]

Funny you mention that, because the original art also had a female cleric by the warrior. Gygax specifically had Elmore change it so that the player would imagine themselves in the picture (also why his face was hidden). Thanks Pral and have a great weekend buddy!

[@Nobleshield]

I don't quite get why B/X gets so much support over BECMI when the latter has literally everything you'd ever need for a campaign (even discounting the crazy Immortal stuff). B/X doesn't have rules for strongholds or mass combat.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I think BX gets a lot of love for a few reasons. 1) it is clean, staying with the basic concepts. 2) it’s compact, because they never finished it. 3) it has the best straight up clone on the market. BECMI has a few small warts, namely stretching the thief skills out to be even less effective, but overall it is more complete and a greater system in my opinion.

[@Nobleshield]

@@booksbricksandboards783 Fair points. I think a lot also depends on what you want to do. B/X fits the sandbox/hexcrawl that's so popular in OSR circles better I think.

[@kurtoogle4576]

I still find excuses to run these modules. A simplified D&D 5e 2024 version of BECMI would probably go over really well!

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I think that was a lot of the appeal of the early 5e release. It was a siren song to older players wanting the feel of older editions. In its “original” 3 book set up, I think it showed a lot of promise in that area too, specifically AD&D 2e from whence it pulled the settings and sub class inspirations often. I think it changed its mission at some point to be much less reverent and became much more transformational, and not in a way that was appealing to me. That combined with WOTC’s other boneheaded responses, and they really lost me. I still agree with you, that would go over very well!

[@nikolibarastov4487]

BECMI is fantastic as a System, however, this is another, in the vein of Complete Systems that do Low, High Level, Kingdom Management, and Godhood... 3rd Edition. Even if you corner it to just WotC 3.0 & 3.5, with no 3rd Party OGL nor Pathfinder. Thankfully there are many systems for many flavors of play.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

I played a lot of 3.0, I wasn’t aware they had any official options for immortal play or kingdom management? What were the supplements that added those options? I used to have a very large 3.0 collection, but must have missed those.

[@nikolibarastov4487]

@@booksbricksandboards783 To be fair, they are 3.5 if I remember correctly, Deities and Demigods is the "Immortals" equivalent, and the Stronghold Builder's Guide has part of the Kingdom Building and Management. I will admit, Pathfinder 1st Edition's Complete Campaign is a much more succinct book for 3rd Edition ruleset.

[@booksbricksandboards783]

@@nikolibarastov4487 unless it is very different than the earlier Deities and Demigods, was that not just stats for immortals? Not actually BECOMING immortals right? Thanks for the info.

[@nikolibarastov4487]

@@booksbricksandboards783 There is a Section on the Nature of Divinity and Becoming a God, and the Different Divine Ranks, and Gods fighting Mortals, and Other Gods, so it is pretty similar to the Immortals book. So it is VERY Different