Bee Colony Walk-away Split with Agressive Bees

This colony was from a cutout only 4 months earlier and had filled 3+ mediums here in Texas. Quite prolific but also quite aggressive, downsizing them will calm some the aggressions. But you can see the method for doing a split.
Also, notice that I did not need to move them miles, only a few feet. Note that one split gets a top entrance and the larger split gets a new bottom entrance (some bees will migrate back to the top entrance, so favor the new bottom entrance with bees/frames).
Just make sure both sides have brood+eggs so they can make a new queen. I do not hunt for the queen, with all that activity can you imagine trying to find her!
And yes, this is an AHB colony. I will water down their genetics and they'll become my 'typical' aggressive hive, not the anti-Christ aggressive hive they are now. While many would simply destroy this colony, there are some very good traits that I want to draw from these genetics (prolific egg-laying queen, 2x the nectar draw of most of my 'aggressive' hives, defensive).
AHB is NOT for new beekeepers. Proper safety is always #1 priority and I know how to handle this temperament. Note that I did not get one sting from any of this activity and after 15 minutes were back to normal.

[@staceypendley2713]

Well, I will say one thing... No one will steal honey from that Hive.

[@craigfenton1913]

Not without a lot of smoke. Or some petrol...

[@intheshell35ify]

Those bees were relentless.

[@craigfenton1913]

Some people should "NOT" own bees. There is so much I can say about this I'm better off leaving it with my opening comment.

[@enstreetbees9968]

That is the most aggressive hive I have ever seen on video. do you have any idea of the genetics? I sincerely hope they are far away from people or critters

[@someoneveryclever]

These are Africanised honey bees (AHB).

[@regiaquiarato7898]

@@someoneveryclever com certeza são africanas legitimas... não africanizadas. Estas são mais calmas que as do vídeo.

[@devil9chaser]

I just want to say thank you as so many have told me how hard it is to do all this. Yet watching your video took a lot of stress away for me that i was feeling about my bees. I would also like to make a comment that no one seems to like to tell a new beekeeper that there are many different bee suits and mate i can tell you the one i have i got stung through it sure opened my eyes up and the antihistamine packet up as well. Thank you for your video

[@yesplease9021]

hopefully you have realized by now to stop taking antihistamines and just let your body recover and build tolerance.....? Much safer in the long run on you and in no time you wont swell, itch, or be as sore as you once were!!

[@George-nx5lo]

Should be titled run away split!!

[@netjogr]

I would have burnt that hive if they acted like that. The main problem is spreading those genetics to the rest of your hives and any potential splits. However if you are willing to deal with it overall it's your choice.

[@bobbysbee4611]

Those bees are closer to his neighbor then his house that's just wrong in so many ways

[@tonyandric4380]

Bobby, you need to understand the full situation. That bee yard was there long before they moved in. And those are all "illegals" living there, and they've pulled a gun on another neighbor as well as stolen from other neighbors. The bees are no problem for those neighbors, those neighbors are the plague on the rest of the neighborhood. Police have been called out a dozen+ times and done nothing about these criminal illegals.

[@popquizzz]

That colony could really hurt or even kill someone. They need to be requeened.

[@tonyandric4380]

Yes and no. First note I assure you nobody is within hundreds of feet of the bee yard. Next, that colony will never accept a new queen unless I split them about 1:6, and then it's 50/50 at best. I also did other things to calm them going forward not covered in the video. And this is one of my more aggressive colonies, the split making a new queen will get a little gentler from other drones. Finally, this is Texas, and a good number of colonies either start this aggressive or get there, it's a tough endless uphill battle to keep gentle hives here. And I don't want gentle colonies, they are always very weak and need too much help fighting SHB/varroa. I have a few gentle colonies, they're getting sold because of the extra work required. No thank you. Not that they all need to be this aggressive, but I'm good somewhere in the middle.

[@popquizzz]

Tony, you bring up some very good and valid points. I am just starting out beekeeping and everything I see and hear always refers to requeening to get the aggressive behavior out of the bees. I never hear the points you are making. I still call Arlington Texas home but have since moved to North Central Washington on the Columbia River about six years ago. I don't miss the heat as we have our own 100+ degree days here every year (going to have a few more this week), but it is nice to get the four seasons until the snow starts to pile up. That is an awesome fence you have around your beeyard. Did you weld that yourself? Keep making the videos, I am enjoying them, though I cringe a little at the number of bees hitting your suit.

[@tonyandric4380]

Thank you Glen. Maybe I didn't say it, but there is visiting the rodeo, riding a horse, riding a bucking bronco and then there's bull riding. This hive is not for new beekeepers, this should fit into the 'professional bullriding' category. And if I didn't state it in the video, my apologies. You don't have colonies like this up north and you really don't want them as a new BK. With experience and greater understanding you can start handling broncos, but I'll definitely advise not to start there. The fence is pre-fab'd, you can get them but they're $300+ per panel new. Part of why I use these panels is that these are my more aggressive colonies, and I want to keep all animals out of there for their own safety, both domestic and wild. It may appear like a crazy bullrider out of control, but safety is still my #1 priority. I teach it, I preach it, and I practice it.

[@popquizzz]

Giddy-Up, I'm leaving the Bull Riding to you. Thanks for sharing and caring!

[@matthewwaltner-toews567]

@@tonyandric4380 Wow. I realize this is an old post, but still, wow. Here in the South-East corner of South Australia we've got some bees that are close to this (yeah, we've got some of the African genes down under too, though not nearly what you get to deal with). They'll chase a person 100m easy. But I aim for "workably aggressive" hives. My main problem with the bees that are this agro is that it's really hard to get them out of the honey to harvest! Also, it's harder to bring my son or daughter to work :)

[@rodneymiddleton9624]

That hive is down right nasty!!! I can open my hives and lay my hand in them. Sorry to say but that hive would have to go before the drones pass those genetics to other colonies. Best of luck! Thanks!

[@pcdubya]

Whole ee cow, what you talkin bout willis, yes I would say that's aggressive. I just split one of mine here in SC a couple of weeks ago that we call aggressive but after seeing that, they're tame. Mine were a swarm I caught last year and the 2 boxes were busting at the seams so we split into 3 nucs. Mine are pretty hot compared my other hives but nothing like that , wowzer.

[@garybrabant5505]

Them some crazy bees. 😎🐝🐝🐝

[@najielali1]

Hi I see you have a black ants hive stand. Where did you get them from?

[@tonyandric4380]

Search ebay for "bee ant barrier". They work great & the fellow who makes them is really nice.

[@RaySarasin]

African bees I think wow I would pinch that queen and requeen it

[@scipio2009]

But yeah, that's a pretty hot hive lol. Manage it how you want, but an idea that I think could work would be to split the stack up. Find the queen and put her into a box at the original spot, and then 4-spokes the rest of the new boxes. Don't know the equipment you've got, but take each 10-frame medium box, and then shake the box into it's own 5-frame deep nuc as far away from the old colony as possible (prioritize frames with eggs/brood/pollen or honey frames). Foragers end up flying back to the now empty original box with the queen (no eggs/brood and little honey), and you've got the opportunity to create new queens from the original eggs (drones near the new spot will help reset genetics). Check on the splits in 4-6 weeks; if still too aggressive, you deal with it how you want

[@timlewis9873]

I would NEVER put up with that.

[@tonyandric4380]

Hi Tim. Good news: you don't have to. I keep bees as I want to, you keep bees as you want. BTW, this colony has significantly calmed down over the past year. They're still mean as snot, but not like this. But goodness are they productive.

[@bazilhoward-browne170]

Too aggressive just like a strain of killer bees. I have 3 or 4 bees pop out at me on one of my hive and I think they are too aggressive I am re queening

[@RoughAndWretchedRAW]

Not aggressive! Defensive! But that being said, a walkaway split would never happen if they were mine. New queens from gentler genetics. OR i'd put them some place in the boonies where predators are an issue then come back a few days later to pick up carcasses then re queen.

[@tonyandric4380]

Good point on aggression vs defensiveness. Often I prefer to call them 'misunderstood'. In that the BK does not understand that they want to simply be left alone. A note, after splitting, even the side which kept the queen has been much 'better' behaved (not gentle, but not crazy). They are still an incredibly productive hive. As I've said before, I don't want gentle genetics. All my BK friends with 'gentle' genetics in my area lose 40% of the colonies each year while my 'more aggressive' colonies are closer to 0% loses.

[@RoughAndWretchedRAW]

@@tonyandric4380 WARNING!!!! THis is going to be a long comment.... What kind of "production are you talking about? Our spring last year was horrid and a month late. I fought with chalk brood from the time I got the hives because of it. then our bees shut down a month early with an early fall. I still got 130lbs of honey per hive on single brood chambers. My hives were purchased as full splits. I only got my hives at the end of June so I missed any spring flow and the supers were off in mid august. I Still have about 1/2 to a full month before they come out of the shed and they are looking great so far. No loss and no issues I can see. I know for a fact that if we have a good spring and my breeding ideas work then using commercial producers single hive population management I'll have those hives doing double or near double production in the same time frame this year. From my two ten frames and weekly full hive inspections then two late season nuc splits I took 5 stings total last year and each was my fault (like crushing a bee or time of day.) I only have a veil, a pair of beekeeping gloves and a smoker for equipment. Last season was my first season with bees. My first look in an actual hive was inspecting my own solo. I diagnosed all my own problems and I made all my own decisions to mitigate. I had a shit year little equipment and started with disease and still got 130lbs of honey per hive and a late season nuc from each. Massive honey or brood production is possible from any hive. These are managed goals. Bees make a whack of bees and honey on their own or they die. It's beekeepers intervention that either helps to maximize or hinders. It's our poor management or lack of it that is the problem. When it comes to bee keeping I look only to results. I care nothing for opinion. The reason I could manage solo with ZERO experience is because there are lots of medium sized commercial guys out there doing videos on every aspect of beekeeping and everyway possible to do it. I watched exactly what they are all doing. Figured out if I could improve on that or if I must modify it due to my specifics then implemented the ideas. The biggest thing watching all these pros did for me was to enable me to determine fact from opinion. and here is an example. (Fat bee man) FBM great guy. Definitely knows what he's doing and gives a ton of good advice. He says a queen excluder reduces a bee's life span by half. Then I look at a commercial honey producer like Canadian beekeepers blog (CBKB). He uses queen excluders exclusively. SOOOO! Considering the short lifespan of summer bees How is it possible that CBKB has production hives of bees full to overflowing with bees if FBM 50% lifespan reduction is true??? Do CBKB's queens lay twice the eggs to make up for it?? Probably not. Which only leaves one possibility. 50% lifespan reduction is an opinion based on ideology rather than fact. As such I use queen excluders and I really don't care about opposing opinions because results don't back them up. I have heard, since I began researching bees 3 years ago, that defensive hives produce more than calm hives and still have not seen anything other than opinion to back that up. Not a single stat from anyone. What I have noticed is that folks that have defensive hives only manage them when they absolutely have to. While they root through the easy ones and manipulate them far more frequently. Doing manipulations like splits last minute because they absolutely have to means more bees in the box longer which is possibly responsible for increased production. CBKB's bees average 233lbs per hive per season. His honey season is the same as mine, approximately 2 months. He has videos on exactly step by step how he accomplishes that. Nothing preventing me from getting that kind of production except for me. My point is that our bees have this kind of actual realized production numbers in two months and the bees aren't trying to kill us for it. I am not claiming to be right or wrong. I am claiming to have never seen a single statistic to back the opinion that defensive hives produce more. I have seen tons of opinion. I have seen videos of people managing their defensive hives differently. But I have never seen even a single beekeeper using identical management and time in both state as a fact that Defensive hives produce X amount more honey or X amount more brood and proven consensus on those numbers to produce statistical fact. I see a whack of folks as defensive of their opinion on defensive bees being superior as their defensive bees are. If it was true and verifiable I am sure they would have proved it with actual average numbers. I know where this ideology originated. It was with the high production and highly aggressive African honey bee. But aggression and production are separate traits. This many years later of natural cross breeding you'll have a African equal high production hive you can take to bed with you and Hives that will kill anything that disturbs their peace that won't produce enough brood or honey so they even can survive a season. It's all good genetics and bad genetics as far as I can tell.

[@tonyandric4380]

@@RoughAndWretchedRAW Well, congrats on your success so far. A year into it & you've got things down pat. Great. You haven't said where you're located (I'll guess up north somewhere, doesn't matter). I've previously (repeatedly) stated I'm in central Texas, and my points of reference are here. When I said 'production', it's true in every measure (here in central Texas). Heartiness, honey production, survivability, bee production. AHB colonies produce 30% more bees per colony, research proven fact. More bees make more honey, research proven fact. Let's just say I've got more than one year experience & 3 years studying personally supporting my evidence. You seem to have an agenda and a bit of anger. I'm sorry about that. But feeling have never and will never trump facts. I don't think we're going to be able to help one another here. I wish you well, go with God.

[@RoughAndWretchedRAW]

@@tonyandric4380 I am up in Saskatchewan Canada. Lol.. The only thing I deserve congratulation for is the ability to listen and the willingness to do the work. I can't produce brood or honey I can only facilitate the bees. Yes AHB can produce more but at this point which bees are AHB. Folks aren't sending their tame colonies for testing. Only colonies being tested for AHB are aggressive colonies involved in incidents. Aggression and production are different traits. The entire purpose for the initial import of AHB was to breed out the aggression and keep the production aspect. The bees escaped. Since then beekeepers everywhere have culled out aggression and kept production. AHB has been selectively bred 32 years in North America 27 years in the US alone. Add that to commercial migratory pollination Spreading the genes as fast as they did Varroa and it's entirely possible My bees have AHB production traits without the aggression. Back in the late 90s we had a hive in the top of our shop wall for 2 years they didn't bother us and we didn't bother them. One day there was a war going on. Honey bees killing honey bees. When it was over there were dead bees littering the floor. After that we couldn't work in the shop. Any loud noise and they'd go nuts. Start the tractor and they were swarming it. a month we put up with this. I had no choice but to kill the hive. Yellow jackets and hornets were nothing compared to these. Were they AHB? I have no clue but, if they were then their drones spread their genetics with every queen they mated all the way from where ever they came from. More bees does result in more production no doubt about that, but, as I said that can be managed by the Bee keeper. CBKB' production hives are running 10 frame single brood boxes. By the time he does his first honey pull in mid July he has his single brood boxes with 8 to 10 full frames of brood. If he doesn't have that then he's in the box finding and fixing the problem. He's from Manitoba and gets our weather the day after we do here. So basically the same conditions as I have. Cell counts in a 10 frame box full put his queens producing at or near Max documented stats for queen brooding capability for honey bee species. I agree that AHB genetic, production traits are superior to pure bred Italian, Russian or pretty much everything else known. But where I disagree is that AHB defense is a trait that must be present for the productive trait to manifest itself. I also don't agree there is pure bred anything anymore. As I said earlier the entire purpose for importing African bees to Brazil in 1956 was to cross breed and create a bee that produces as well without the aggression. 26 swarms escaped. I'm say beekeepers have been doing since what they wanted to do in 56. Culling aggression while keeping production. What I find interesting is that no one considers drone genetics. They credit the queen for all and they condemn her for all. How many would watch your video and assume AHB immediately because of the Defensiveness? If I had a hive that produced exactly as well in the same environment without the defensiveness who would assume AHB? Why not? Statistically even severe defensive bee attacks are decreasing also. Are people more aware? They are literally walking into shit cause they are on their phones. everyone has a pocket video camera yet no viral videos of bee attacks. What's changing? selective breeding to keep production and get rid of extreme defense. That being said. If I had a yard in the boonies plagued by predators like bears and skunks or whatever I'd have Defensive AHB hives and signs everywhere warning of it. Instead of a solar electric fence I'd have up nice bright Solar electric yard light/s so they could fly if disturbed at night. If one defensive AHB hive can kill a human. I'd put two against a bear. By the way. When I saw you had replied I was in the middle of your Bee Vac video. Way to go on designing that unit. The moment I have some cash that doesn't have to go into production expansion. You will have a sale. Up north here there are few swarms. I mean, I put up some swarm traps for three years and got NADA! But as it becomes known I have bees I may get the odd cut out or swarm call. Seen many designs and watched 628dirtrooster with yours in action and yours is the best by far. Seriously! GOOD JOB!

[@tonyandric4380]

@@RoughAndWretchedRAW Thank you for the compliment on the vac. A very good friend of mine wrote his Master's Thesis on managing AHB about 30 years ago. I don't know everything, but I'm fairly familiar with just about every aspect of AHB from great to disasters. No worries for you, AHB cannot survive in Canada: they don't seem to be able to adapt to cold climates. Down here nobody bothers to spend the money to test for AHB, just assume it's there. And if you don't requeen annually, your replacement queen 99% will be bred to their drones. Every region has their specific BK needs, and they are so different that it's like being a plumber in Detroit and changing to an electrician in Santa Fe. I can only speak for my region as you can speak for yours. I keep my hives hundreds of feet from where a human should be: if someone gets into my bees they'll be treated better than if they run into me (I've had cattle rustled off my place). Here, if a hive is not defensive, it has low odds of survival. Everything raids the hives: from vicious fire ants on up. If the hive doesn't declare war immediately, they'll be inundated. But the choice of bee defensiveness (or aggression) is a choice made by each BK in their location. You can battle with defensive bees, or you can battle every critter attacking your bees down here. The first really is the far easier choice here in Central Texas.

[@drootopia]

Are they always that aggressive?

[@tonyandric4380]

Hi Drew. This colony (cutout) has always been on the not-friendly side, and as they've gotten bigger they have gotten more aggressive. When I get within 10-20 ft, they are buzzing me. So aggressive, YES. But, they really have been producers. I'm in central Texas among ranchland, not much crops to collect. These girls have been collecting stores at twice the rate of some of my colonies which is why I like them!

[@drootopia]

Tony Andric my son is a lot happier our bees are calm. But we are in northern NY. I posted a video of a lesson I learned that a fellow engineer may enjoy. Place a hard drive magnet in one of your pockets so you can stick your hive tool to it.

[@garethpattinson2099]

They are very aggressive. U have brass ones for working them. But if mine they would be re queened

[@Warren76317]

You say it's hard to keep bees gentle in Texas, You ain't helping matters keeping AHB. I have a few mean hives and if they get any more meaner they get a trash bag. Mine aren't anywhere as mean as this bunch. lol Good luck, hope they don't kill ya.

[@regiaquiarato7898]

🇧🇷 por quantos metros da colmeia elas permaneceram esvoaçando em torno de vc? No Brasil temos abelhas africanizadas, mas não desse jeito. Benza Deus! Adoraria ter abelhas gentis. 🤔😏Toleraria a baixa produção delas...

[@RaySarasin]

Good day I am in Canada I open my box up and maybe 20 or 30 fly up and buzz around wow get rid of them quick and move on. I do not use gloves just bare handed and yet to be stung

[@chrishumphreys9363]

You need to re-queen i'm thinking

[@scipio2009]

This is significantly after the fact, but the only mistake I think I see (no hives of my own, but gathering information) is that you didn't smoke the hive down good before opening them up. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but using all the tools at your disposal would seem to make sense to help you work. To each their own

[@tonyandric4380]

I mention in the video that I had smoked the colony for 10+minutes before starting. Something that I find common, after splitting the colony, their temperament significantly improved. And remained much better (not gentle, but not crazy) as they grew into larger colonies again. Sometimes there is just 'something' that upsets them and it's the job of the BK to figure that out & resolve it.

[@scipio2009]

@@tonyandric4380 posted my comment before the prologue, so was a bit quick. Good content otherwise; the trade-off between the temperament of the bees versus the susceptibility to varroa/hive beetles/moths and disease is basically what I'm trying find info on and figure out. Am under no delusion of wanting to beekeep in a t-shirt and shorts, so if the other ills don't show up, I'd be alright with working with somewhat defensive/aggressive bees.

[@patraic5241]

That one would to hot for me to consider splitting. Of course if all the bees in you area are like that you might have no choice.

[@dougphillips4946]

NO way I would want that to replicate, even those drones will ruin the temperament of all future colonies if they breed a new queen. Dangerous should be eliminated like a mean bull not allowed to make more.

[@Gord1812]

Wow those are pissed off bees.!

[@jirizhanel795]

Holly shit. I thought my bees are mean.

[@bradgoliphant]

Oh hell no--hahahah. For me, it's not worth keeping bees like that. Even if they produce more. Have fun my friend

[@davidpook7306]

AHB !!

[@jwchitwood]

Your acceptance of this behavior is disturbing.

[@stephenkelly2365]

Wtf lol

[@smittysbees6860]

oh hell naw.... those are africanised bees.....