BEFORE YOU BUY A BOAT WATCH THIS/Inboard VS. Outboard/Why we Chose an outboard for "Channel Surfing"

[@redbug3777]

Great Info! Alot of people would benefit from this vid.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the video!

[@HaciendadelosSantos]

Excellent video with many comparisons that I hadn't considered. Thanks....

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Smokeyham]

Thanks for putting that together. After reviewing your comparisons, the main advantage of an outboard seems to be the speed. I think I would still go with an inboard diesel.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I would also add, ease of maintenance. The outboard is easier to work on than a diesel, if for no other reason, the engine isn't stuck into a cramped space inside the boat.

[@alanmccormick6911]

On my Cutwater C-28 (comparable to the Ranger R-27), I comfortably cruise at least 20 knots. The top speed I have seen is 27.5 knots. The outboard is faster, but a bit exaggerated to say double the distance covered. One advantage I think of often with the outboard is in case of needing to clear a fouled prop from running over a line.. easy to do on the outboard but I plan to install a line cutter. Diesel is about 2/3 the price of gasoline, and there are no road taxes included that you need to worry about asking for a refund for (which I'm probably too lazy to do). Aesthetics is a consideration depending on personal preferences, and keeping the swim platform clear for entry or fishing is nice. I think the gas outboard is a good option, but if I were looking at an inboard gas vs inboard diesel, I think the diesel is a clear winner. If we had a generator it would also be diesel though, and I run the Westabo heater off the same 100 gallon tank. Gas for the dingy can be kept if needed in a canister in the swim platform locker.

[@alanmccormick6911]

I suppose I'm not positive how a current gen R-27 diesel inboard would perform (if they add one again). The C-28 has the D-270 (270 HP), and I thought I had heard that the Cutwaters are somehow faster? The Rangers definitely have more style and finishing touches, I love the glass.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

The gas tax is about 30 cents a gallon return. I do the paperwork. I let the receipts stack up until there's a couple hundred bucks then submit them. There are so many various diesel options out there. Looking in tugnuts at others who have published their performance numbers, most of the Ranger Tugs with diesels top out around 20kts and cruise slower than that. R27 classic with 200hp D3 19kts, R31 300hp at 17kts, R29 with 260hp Yanmar is 19kts (WOT numbers). Cutwaters are faster, and your boat is effectively the equivalent of ours in a Cutwater. I definitely agree with you about gas inboards. I will never own another gas inboard again, and my next boat might very well have an inboard diesel. Though, that Cutwater 32 with twin Yamaha 300's is really attractive (except for the price tag! Ha!)

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

@@alanmccormick6911 2012 R27 classic, 180HP Yanmar WOT is 15kts with cruising sweet spot around 12kts. 2014 R27 classic, D3 200HP WOT is 19kts, cruising is between 8 and 14kts. The Cutwaters are the speedboats of the Fluid Motion product line. :)

[@alanmccormick6911]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing The older R27s (200 hp) or R29s (260 hp) engines have less power than the current Cutwaters C-28 (D4 270 hp) and C-30 (D6 435 hp). That being said, I think that a current gen R-27 with a D4-270 may not be possible at the same price point. The Ranger has better interior finishes (cabinetry, glass skylights, etc.), but the Yamaha 300 outboard ($30k) is almost half the price of the Volvo D4-270 ($60k). I think that what I lose in some interior style and finishes is put into the price of the engine.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

@@alanmccormick6911 I hadn't even thought about it like that. But that totally makes sense now!

[@rangertruth4776]

Very good comparisons , I have owned a R-27 diesel and a R 27 outboard . I think the diesel displacement hull , with it's large keel and keel shoe offer much more hull protection than the outboard model . My 2018 R 27 ( first year of production ) seems lighter built than the displacement diesel hull . On the 2018 I have the Luxury Edition which has a factory gas Generator , which my Surveyor has told me , it has ABYC install infractions . This being gas powered , worries me . I would go back to my diesel if i had the chance . I would then have to be content to go slow , and stand on my head to service it . Excellent breakdown of the pros and cons .

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! If I were to run over an obstacle, the PTT unit would allow the outboard to kick-up, lessening the damage. I did run over something on my last boat with a gas inboard and stern drive and it broke. $7,000 dollars kind of broken. Insurance paid for the repair. The part broken was like $500, the rest was labor to replace it. (no joke, as the entire engine had to come out of the boat to fix the stern drive).

[@dougodysssey]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the outboards add about 4 feet to the LOA with the props out of the water when berthing. That amounts to an extra $40+/month in berthing fees.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Depends on the marina. It is a 27 foot boat that is just under 33 ‘ with the engine down. Port of Everett allows some leeway. We have to rent a 32’ slip but kicking our engine up that makes us 34’ is ok. I know Cap Sante in Anacortes would require us to get a 36’ slip as you said.

[@jaquigreenlees]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing Just to your North in BC, slips are in 10 foot increments, so you would get dinged for a 40 foot slip for a boat "just over 30 feet length over all" That is for long term slips, transients it's by the foot.

[@cherrypickerguitars]

@@jaquigreenlees BC guy, here, too! I love the advantages of my outboard on my C-dory 22’ cruiser. If my applications were different, I’d take diesel over gas any day of the week, space be dammed ! And they ARE asses here over dock space!

[@jaquigreenlees]

@@cherrypickerguitars There are several different brands of outboards available now that run on diesel. Just be glad they haven't figured out they could spend less and fit more boats if they went to med mooring, as soon as they do that there will be no more side tie slips.. No finder docks to pay for or maintain, just a few concrete blocks and rope for the bow tie-up and the main docks. substantially reduced costs for the marinas.

[@BrianWerner]

I'd say you covered it pretty well. Being able to steer with the outboard in reverse is nice. The steering wheel in my Cutwater 26 basically does nothing in reverse. Thankfully it has fore and aft thrusters. Diesel is definitely safer, but smells compared to gas. I'd say outboards have a large convenience factor, but Diesel wins when it comes to long range and safety.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Range is dependent on the size of the fuel tank. But diesel does have more energy per gallon than gasoline does. The R27-OB has a range of about 270 miles doing 7 knots with 25 gallons left in the tank.

[@ericksonjustinAK]

Reliability and security is a head scratcher too. Inboards tend to be much more reliable. Volvo marine diesel engines are rock solid and run like tops, which gives peace of mind. But with outboards, you can easily have more than one and have spare props that can be replaced with a dinghy to avoid needing rescued in many circumstances. Noise is another big factor that I think everyone should consider. Inboards tend to be quieter, but in the cabin outboards can be quieter, unless the inboard is aft and under the cockpit. I personally see why I should want outboards if thinking practically, but the boater in me likes the aesthetics of an inboard and being outside while cruising and not hearing screaming outboards. I also like anchoring and going to shore or exploring a bay and/or dropping a few crab pots with the dinghy on a whim. My dad had a 40' CHB with a 40 hp volvo penta (I think it was 40) and it just purred along and was so darn relaxing and charming. But he was retired...

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

In the Ranger tug lineup, you can not hear the outboard. Not in the cabin or in the cockpit. You will always hear the inboard. It’s a huge difference. We listen to the radio as we cruise with our outboard.

[@ericksonjustinAK]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing good info. Didn’t know that about ranger tugs. I have been on a few boats where I noticed that outboards where much quieter in the cabin than inboards but were loud if the door was open to the cockpit. My wife does not want to get a boat. If I can ever get her to come around, I’m going to start with a c dory and then if my wife likes it and my another-foot-itus kicks in, I’ll go with a ranger tug. It’s tough to get a slip where I live, so being trailerable is a major bonus. And you have convinced me that an outboard is the way to go, especially if I have to pull it out of the water often. Like your videos and thanks for the response. Any tips on keeping dogs and wives happy on boats would be appreciated. Haha. Going potty and feeling bored and cooped up while cruising is a major factor for both, but my dog doesn’t care at all about my finance and loves wind on the face.

[@bradmercier8267]

Get a new wife.@@ericksonjustinAK

[@sandrapinard]

Great review as always. Just one little comment. We have the 25 SC inboard and only have one type of fuel on board. Our wallas diesel stove is actually fed directly from the main tank and our dinghy has an electric motor, so it is indeed possible to keep it simple with just one fuel type on board. Thanks for the videos I find them helpful and especially love all of Lazina's tips, it is wonderful to have both the Captain and Admiral points of view :) See you out on the water.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for the info and for watching!! One fuel would be nice. However, I did just recently run upon an advantage of having multiple fuels. The outboard is gasoline, which is the same fuel of my dinghy motor. The Webasto heater runs on diesel or kerosene. Being that I have a dedicated 5 gallon tank for the Webasto heater allows me to switch to kerosene for the heater which burns cleaner and smells better than marine diesel. I can also run the Webasto tank to empty. The pickup tube on a diesel inboard usually has the heater pickup tube shorter than the main engine, to prevent the heater from leaving the boat stranded without fuel. Hope to see you out on the water!!

[@frankrice5364]

Awesome vedio thank you guys for sharing

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! I'm glad you found the information useful.

[@todddunn945]

I know this is an old video, but I have to mention a couple of things. 1. I have never seen an installed gas generator on a diesel inboard boat. The installed genset is always diesel. Also, I do not carry gas on board my inboard diesel boat because I have an electric outboard. That is increasingly common. As fas as handling goes, there are lots of diesel inboard boats around here (Maine coast) that have integrated bow thrusters with joy stick steering. Those boats can easily be driven sideways or turned 360 degrees in place. It all depends n how the steering is et up and if the thruster and main engine steering are integrated. One thing you didn't mention is that with an outboard boat it is much easier to lift the prop out of the water than on an inboard diesel boat. That makes an inboard diesel boat operate more safely than an outboard in rough conditions. Also I think y0u misstated fuel efficiency. diesel has about 15% more energy per gallon than gas so a diesel engine uses less fuel to produce the same amount of power. If you were comparing diesel Rangers with gas rangers, there is a significant difference in hull design that is a BIG factor in fuel efficiency. With the same hull diesel is always more efficient. Also diesel boats with planing hulls can go just as fast as a gas boat with the same hull and amount of horsepower. Hull form makes a huge difference. Last winter I sold my 1936 pure displacement hull boat. That boat was 32'8" with a 9.5' beam and displaced about 10,000 lbs. At 7 knots I burned about 1 gallon per hour of diesel. My wife preferred me to run at 5.5 knots where I burned a quart an hour (22 nautical mpg = 2.86 statute mpg.. Maintenance is also easy on a properly set up diesel inboard. My current boat for example has an oil change pump and a remote mounted filter. An oil change takes about 15 minutes tops and doesn't require any contortions. The raw water side of my volvo-penta diesel has a bronze raw water pump and a monel heat exchanger, so I have no engine zincs to change. Winterizing the engine literally takes about 3 minutes. The only job that takes any contortions is changing the impeller for the raw water. I think it comes down to what you are familiar with. I have never run a gas main engine and would not consider one. If I had never run a diesel I would likely stick with a gas outboard.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching!! Great feedback too, by the way. I probably should have been more clear, I was specifically referring to Ranger Tugs and Cutwater boats in this video, as they make diesel inboards and gas outboards. In the Ranger Tug product line, the slowest gas outboard boat is faster than their fastest diesel inboard. Just talking straight mph. The Cutwater 28, for example, diesel inboard, has a WOT of about 21 knots, while my RT27-OB with a gas outboard cruises at 25 knots and has a WOT of about 35knots. The C28 and RT27-OB are very similar boats in length, width and other characteristics. (Fluid motion makes Ranger Tugs and Cutwater boats). So I often compare against both brands. Hull design obviously plays.a part. Fuel efficiency, Diesel is slightly better as you said, but it's not a lot. The biggest differentiator here is as you said, what you're familiar with. I hear from lots of happy diesel inboard owners who love their 7 knots and 1gph kind of statistics. I burn 20 gph but get to my destination in an hour or two instead of taking a day to get there. I don't have all day to boat at 7knots. I can work from the boat, but not while she's underway. So it's more important for us that we're able to get to our destination in a reasonable amount of time. The Yamaha Dealer told me last week that I've got 108 hours at "idle" (less than 2000 RPM), out of the 536 hours total on the engine. They recommended that I run the engine harder and use Ring Free to help keep carbon buildup from forming. The Yamaha F300 outboard wasn't meant to necessarily be ran at 7 knots for hours on end. But it can be ran at WOT for hours on end. I plan on remaking this video this winter to update it. It was an early video of ours, a great topic, but not necessarily the best video we've since published.

[@todddunn945]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing One other thing. Diesel engines are much heavier than outboards for the same power. For example a Volvo-Penta D4-300 weighs between 1280 and 1350 lbs (dry) depending on which transmission it has and your Yamaha 300 weighs about 550 lbs. To make a completely fair weight comparison you need to include the weight of the shaft, stuffing box and prop in the weight of the diesel. If you are going to compare boats you should be comparing the Cutwater 28 and your boat since they have the same hull form and close to the same displacement (the Cutwater looks a few hundred pounds heavier), but the details of accessories will impact the final displacement. That would be an apples to apples comparison. The Ranger 27 inboard is almost 1,000 lbs lighter than your boat, but its semi-displacement hull will limit its speed and also increase fuel consumption relative to a planing hull like your boat has. As far as engine power output and fuel consumption go a Volvo-Penta D-300 will burn about 15.2 gph to produce 300 hp. That number is taken from the Volvo-Penta web site. The rule of thumb for modern diesels is that fuel consumption is in the 1 gph for 20 hp range. Similarly your Yamaha 300 will burn in the 25 gph range to produce 300 hp which is about 12 hp per gallon per hour. As far as outboard boats being faster in general, that simply isn't true. Locally we have a powerboat builder that builds both inboard diesel and outboard powered boats on essentially the same hulls. Independent of type of power their boats achieve cruising speeds in the 35 to 45 knot range (depends on how much power the boat has) and top speeds up to around 50 knots. Incidentally, their inboard boats are much more maneuverable at low speeds than the outboard boats. Fast inboard diesel boats are definitely a thing. However, they are not a good comparison to Ranger/Cutwater boats since they are a high end builder (prices start at over $1M). All of the above notwithstanding, boat speed depends a lot on where you boat. I am in Maine and the ocean here does get a little choppy (it is the north Atlantic after all). On nice days for power boating you can run fast, particularly if you are inside the islands, but in open water high speed is often not possible. For example I have come out from behind an island where the chop was light

[@neilmcbride7192]

Look at replacing your dinghy with a Gala Inflatable canoe/kayak. They are very stable and easy to handle. Could be stored on your cabin roof and are light to handle they are designed to take an outboard.

[@donnieculver7709]

Great video. Thanks for posting. I was curious on the fuel consumption difference. I might consider a tankless hot water heater on propane now. Thanks again.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thank you!! And thanks for watching!

[@dongmo1]

One of the considerations you didn’t mention is weight and where that weight is placed in the boat, center of gravity, etc. My 31 foot Skagit has two 6 cylinder turbo diesels. The engines, reverse gears, fuel tanks ( half full ) weigh around one and a half tons. All that weight is very low in the hull. The boat is very soft riding in big seas. Water is heavy. I like a heavier boat because it can operate in rough water without getting pounded. 2:1 reduction ratio reverse gears and big four bladed propellers makes the boat very easy to handle in tight quarters. No thrusters needed. Speed? I cruise between 17 and 20 knots. Plenty fast in my opinion.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Weight was one of the reasons we opted for the RT27 over the RT25 and RT23 actually. But with a cruising speed of 25 knots and a WOT of 33 knots, enables us to get around fairly quickly.

[@CaptainDan85]

I work for a commercial towing service and we regularly take our twin engine Honda’s over 7000 hours. Never flush them out and it’s just about the hardest work you can put on an outboard.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! Outboards today have gotten so good on longevity.

[@jberg411]

@ Let's go channel Surfing: I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video and share some of the considerations you had between the two. Sounds nieve. But any type of long funnell/hose you could use to xfer the 4 gallons of diesel to the other side of the boat?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Our marina doesn't allow fuel be dispensed anywhere but at the fuel dock. Technically, I could park the boat with the port side to the dock and use a 5 gallon fuel can with diesel. A funnel and long hose would be a recipe for disaster (fuel spill into the water) I think.

[@jacktyler7599]

When we lived aboard in a 4-season climate and relied on a diesel heater, I just jugged 5 gals of diesel to the side deck and used a self-siphoning tube (small metal ball, jiggled up and down initially, creates the siphon). Relatively easy and no spillage. That's what I would do with this boat.

[@alancarver2511]

This is a good evaluation of the two considering your use of a boat; good job. People buying diesel boats have time and want to do extended trip that would cost too much with gasoline engines. Your boat was sold with a 180hp Yanmar that was doing 3 nautical mile per gallon at 8,57 knots (9,9 mph). This is a comfortable cruising speed for the big loop or other long voyage. Your boat: 1,53 nmpg at 10 mph vs 3; almost two times more fuel. You would have to run under 7 knots to obtain the same efficiency and the diesel would have even better numbers at that speed. This is not a viable speed for anybody and even though it's not that bad anymore, your outboard is not really made to run all day long at 1500-1600 RPM.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I can get 3.3mpg at 8mph at 2.4gph on the Yamaha. With the cruising speed of 25 knots, however, I can easily cover over 100nm a day. Its' a trade off of speed vs gph which equates to $.

[@railroad9000]

I have the 2016 R-27 with a 220 HP inboard diesel. The inboard shifts the center of gravity forward and lower and I think it provides a more stable ride. I do lose the storage where the diesel sits.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I looked up the weight of the inboard vs the outboard. They're almost identical. I agree with you, shifting about 500 lbs from knee high on the transom to centerline, stern, at or below the waterline would shift the center of gravity for the boat. Another pro for the inboard would be rough seas. An outboard could get swamped by a following wave. Or as the boat goes up and over the wave, the outboard/prop could potentially come completely out of the water (loss of propulsion) while an inboard wouldn't expose its prop in heavy seas.

[@seikibrian8641]

Don't forget that they didn't just take out the 27's inboard and tack an outboard on the stern. The entire hull design is different.

[@railroad9000]

@@seikibrian8641 True. However, I believe the reason was to get more speed for some buyers. It also changed the styling so much that it is hard to recognize it as a "tug/trawler" boat. Looks more like the Cutwaters.

[@seikibrian8641]

@@railroad9000 "...I believe the reason was to get more speed for some buyers." Exactly. They pay attention to the market, and in trailerable boats intended as dayboats and weekenders, speed is a primary concern.

[@bobcathey8903]

I am not sure this has been mentioned but the Cutwater C28 LE genset is diesel as well. Swim platform storage locker has dedicated space for a small gas tank. Gensets are great as I had a NextGen 3.5 Kw diesel genset in my gas MerCruiser powered Doral 270 SC (previous owner or boat show special I guess). What I need to ask is can the Cutwater 28 LE with genset be ordered with a diesel heater. This would allow for heat without running the genset (except for blower power as necessary). Kind of a cross between the NW model and LE model.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

It's my understanding that the LE comes with a genset needed to power the air conditioner. The air conditioner sits in the same location that the diesel heater would be. Though, I did learn that there is cabin heat available from the engine running also available on the C28.

[@bobcathey8903]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing Yes, behind the engine. That NextGen 3.5 Kw is pretty much the same as it was 20 years ago. Very efficient but as a long stroke single cylinder unit is prone to vibration. Would like to see a 5 Kw twin cylinder (or next size larger) unit instead.

[@kthekeeper5117]

Super helpful.Thanks a lot.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Glad it was helpful!

[@davehandyside7275]

Thank you !

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching!!

[@roythurston7799]

Interesting, so having outboard engines gives you the space that would normally be used for the inboard as storage below?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

It does! We moved our house battery bank there, and then expanded it as well since there's so much room. The center cockpit storage area is quite large since there's no engine there.

[@cherrypickerguitars]

That’s sage advice from an old salt! Cheers! I’m in the midst of a transaction for a 22’ C-dory cruiser (outboard) and for my application, an outboard is perfect. The C-dory is perfect, too, as I’m on fresh water, very large, 120 mile long lakes, in British Columbia’s interior. The flat bottom, dory design allows me to “beach” her on the thousands of isolated, otherwise inaccessible little beaches. And a pilot house is mandatory for Canada! I love the Ranger tugs, and the Cutters! But I’m a retired old man on a budget! And this little C-dory will allow me to trailer her to the Pacific and tow her with my Tacoma! Very good vid, sailor! Peace

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching!

[@martydouglas1802]

one thing I thought you were going to say is that beaching is posable with the outboard and not for the inboard. Also on the wide water of the Erie canal or any tide water shallows, an out board can allow for much shallower draft. I would add this info to your video sometime.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thank you! That's a really good point.

[@ryankline1862]

Thanks for the video. I'm just starting to look at boats for our family of four and I'm really liking the Ranger Tugs. Your breakdown of the outboard vs inboard is one of the better ones I've seen, so thank you. I'm not sure with four of us if the 27 ob will be an option. Might be looking at a 29 or 31. I'm coming to Seattle in a couple weeks for work, so hoping to find a couple to finally see the RT in person. Great videos and glad I found your channel. Very imformative. Safe Travels!

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thank you for the feedback and thanks for watching! We very much love the beam of the R29 and R31. That extra foot and a half would be felt by everybody on board.

[@thatchh1]

Nice video! Helpful for inexperienced boaters. Just a minor clarification you may have just used the the wrong word- inboards circulating water to a water heater are circulating closed system coolant, not raw water. Raw water goes out with the exhaust and never gets very hot. I would emphasize the point that, unless you get the optional generator, those crew members who like a daily shower will have a tough time with the outboard, and even the inboard unless you run your engine for an hour each day.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

You are correct. The closed circuit coolant (not raw water) is what is ran through the hot water tank. We are able to get hot water (only via electric/inverter) with the outboard, but only because of the battery upgrade to three Firefly G31's that we did.

[@jaquigreenlees]

Lets add a bit of complexity to your assessment, Oxe-Diesels Diesel outboards 125 hp to 350 hp. ( perfect for the Ranger 21-27 outboard if you want to stay away from gasoline ) Yanmar ( I think ) also makes a diesel outboard, in the 50 hp range. ( not really a great option for most boats, it's either to big or to small. to big for your dingy, to small for your Ranger Tug. ) So now there are options for fuel for the outboards as well. Up here in BC, going diesel is a lower cost, since diesel has a lower cost than gasoline / petroleum.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Just based on cost of the fuel... The Everett fuel dock (which isn't the least expensive around), gas was $3.83/gal, diesel $3.13. After I get my gas tax refund from the state of WA (30.8 cent/gal), that puts gas at $3.53/gal vs $3.13/gal. Diesel at the dock is dyed, so its price has no road taxes in it unlike gas. So about 12% more expensive for a gallon of gas over diesel.

[@jaquigreenlees]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing Exactly the same here in BC, except the gas tax refund. It's about 15 cents a litre or 60 cents a gallon cheaper for road taxed diesel, likely the same for the marine products. While it doesn't sound like much when you price it out by the litre, by the time you fill that 250 gallon 1000 litre tanks you see the difference. ( I'm using the conversion I was taught in school, 4.57 litres per Imperial Gallon = 4 litres per US Gallon. if there are errors calculated they come out better for you at "modern" conversion of 3.88 litres per US Gallon. )

[@MrRandyk2]

Appreciate the detail in your comparison, but I was hoping to hear a bit of comparison of the ride, stability, and maneuverability differences. I’m switching from sailing, and sailboats that have outboards attached to the transom often have cavitation issues in waves and weather. I think an inboard lowers and centralizes the center of gravity also, so the vessel would retail greater stability in all sea conditions? The outboard appears to steer better at slow speeds where tight turns are needed? Any thoughts here? Thank you again-beautiful Ranger!

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Great question! We've had our boat in 3-5 foot seas without issues. Ranger Tugs are inter-coastal cruisers. They are not open ocean/blue water boats. The weight of the outboard is similar (nearly identical, actually) to that of the weight of an inboard engine (about 600 lbs). The difference being the placement of that weight. The RT boat with an outboard has a planing hull, and cruises faster than the inboards (within the Ranger Tug product line). It's all about what kind of boating you do. Some folks prefer the diesel inboards for their lower center of gravity. The outboard offers ease of maintenance. If you hit something, the outboard will kick-up and may reduce the amount of damage done. But with a 150 gallon fuel tank, you're limited to within about 75 miles of shore to make it back to the fuel dock. They are recreational boats looking for recreational weather. But they can handle some rough seas. I upgraded our 3 blade stainless to a 4 blade stainless for even better grip at slower speeds. But it costs me a little fuel economy at the faster speeds (20-33knots). The Ranger Tug inboards would have a more comfortable ride in rougher water at slower speeds because their hulls have a more defined keel. But those boats also cruise much slower than the outboard versions. The outboards also have better steering for docking in that forward and reverse work with directional control. A rudder and reverse doesn't really do much. But then again, that's what a bow and stern thruster are for.

[@paulwaldrop2262]

Great video. Have a Great 4th.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks Paul! Thanks for watching!

[@bradbeck77]

Thank you for sharing Martin. I had recently attended the Boats Afloat show seminar (it is now available on KZbin) and Brian from Inside Passage Yacht shared that for longevity, the Yamaha outboards have a 600-800 hour max whereas inboard diesels are 5,000-10,000+. I’ll email the link of the video for reference. That really surprised me because with it being that low in comparison, one would have to repower the outboard a lot more often. I see you are at 200 hours on the boat now and you’ve owned it for a year. Brian also shared Yamaha has the most service locations in the PNW. I’m surprised the fuel economy is the same between the two engine types, but recall Ranger Tugs sharing that with me as well a couple of years ago.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

If it's 600-800 hours max for longevity on the F300, I'm going to be able confirm or deny that here soon.. These motors are $25k a piece. Fuel economy between the inboard and outboard aren't the same, but they are very close. Cost wise, diesel is going to be less expensive, but only because gas is usually more expensive than diesel. From the math I've seen, I'd say they are within 10 to 15% of each other, from a pure mpg standpoint. The outboard is always going to get to the destination well ahead of the inboard. Here's a vid on 8,700 hours on a pair of Yamaha F150's. They've done this not once, but 3 times. That's 6 Yamaha F150's and F200's that they've seen greater than 7,000 hours on, and replaced them not out of 'failure' but more of a "lets repower, we've got our usefulness out of them". kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipXUnouZjNhpas0

[@bradbeck77]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing That is why I’m asking because I know the outboard engines are very expensive.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

@@bradbeck77 In our own research, commercial usage is always going to win in the longevity. Engine start/stops is wear and tear. If the water taxi can get 8000 hours on 6 Yamaha engines in a commercial setting, I feel like I ought to be able to get 1/2 that in a recreational application. 4,000 hours would be 200hours a year for 20 years. Maintenance also plays a critical role. Personally, I don't believe 600-800 hours. But if that turns out to be true, I'll be getting a couple of free engines as I will most certainly hit that number within my 6 year Yamaha factory warranty.

[@bradbeck77]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing Hi Martin: I just returned from a trip to Hawaii. I rented a 24 foot catamaran and talked to the owner about his experience with the Yamaha 115 hp outboards. He shares that the two on the boat were just replaced and have 900 hours on them. THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IS THAT THE PREVIOUS YAMAHA OUTBOARDS HAD 10,000 hours on them. While this is a charter boat, it isn’t run like a commercial operation. I was VERY impressed and wanted to share this with you. It was a Glacier Bay.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

@@bradbeck77 That's awesome!! 10,000 hours is a lofty goal, but I think we're up for the challenge. :)

[@tanishazoa138]

The outboard oil can be changed by lifting it out the water, drain the oil in the water, replace

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

All the routine maintenance to the upper part of the outboard could be done with the boat in the water. But replacing the lower gear unit oil requires a haul-out. The get the correct amount of gear oil in the lower unit requires the lower unit be vertical when filling. Thanks for watching!

[@tanishazoa138]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing I was just being a know it nothing lol. Thanks for the video

[@KenSiefert]

Fewer holes in the hull = outboard for the win🎉

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Absolutely! :)

[@robreed8823]

I think you forgot two things . 1. The initial cost of each type of engine, I would think an inboard with all of the mechanical work involved would be a lot higher. 2. If for some reason you have to replace the engine, an outboard would be much cheaper. Any thoughts?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Alan did a cost comparison of his C28 with a inboard vs the RT27-OB outboard. The inboard engine was about $30k and the Volvo inboard $60k (a few years ago). I hope I don't have to replace an engine.

[@happychildhood591]

Thank you for a good analysis. For me, there is no right answer as everyone has a different set of criteria based on lots of factors which makes the whole comparison very subjective. My late wife and I owned a large Asian built trawler that did 8-9 knots. After she passed on I decided to downsize and bought a new R-31 CB with the D4 Volvo-Penta diesel (320 HP). Being able to cruise all day long at 16 knots is tremendously different to doing the 8-9 knots of my previous boat. If I want to push it, I can get her up to 20 knots. However, my reality is that I boat in Long Island Sound which encompasses the New York and Connecticut shorelines, boarded by land on both sides. On any given weekend this body of water is literally a massive traffic jam of thousands of boats going in all directions. Running very fast is often not an option as far as safety is concerned especially in light of the Covid induced influx of many new and totally inexperienced boaters. Thus, I am more than satisfied with the speed capabilities of my diesel tug. Perhaps if I was operating out of a much less populated body of water I might feel differently and be desirous of more speed. Additionally, when I get out on the water I do not want to be in a hurry. I am there to relax, 'smell the flowers' so to speak, and generally just chill-out enjoying the ride and scenery. Most of the times I run my tug at around 12 knots which gives me excellent fuel economy and a relaxed ride. Finally, my tug dealer, Winter Island Yacht Yard in Salem MA, outfitted my tug with a deflector by the prop to ward away lobster pots and other debris that may be floating just under the surface. So far, so good. I'm happy with my choice!

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! We don't always cruise fast. We are destination boaters for sure. When we get to the San Juan Islands, we generally will do 7 knots everywhere since the islands are so close together, and it makes for a more enjoyable and scenic ride. But it's to know that I can get to the San Juan Islands (about 45nm away) in about 2 hours.

[@havfunwithit]

Had a outboard for 20 years with almost no maintenance. Spark plugs and lower oil change. Ran like new and sold it for what I payed for it.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I hope I'm as lucky. One of the main reasons I bought an outboard. Ease of maintenance.

[@rustyw3196]

Great video - thank you. So if you wanted speed - and hence your choice of outboard - why then did you pick a "tug"? There are so many other "fast" boats with similar interior volumes. For example, why not a Cutwater? I totally get this is a subjective question - just curious about your thinking? Also - do you do much "slow" cruising? I would assume the outboard doesn't have a keel and likely doesn't track well at 6-9kts? Thank you for the videos!

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Great question and thanks for watching! I've always loved the tug look. Looked at C-Dory, Nordic and American Tugs in past years. We actually accidentally stumbled upon Ranger Tug. It wasn't necessarily that we wanted a speed boat. We had that with our Maxum 2200 SR3. I've experienced 60mph on flat water across Rosario Straits. That's way too fast for normal cruising and is risky in the Puget Sound and San Juans (we have lots of dead-heads). But we learned that about 30mph is comfortable cruising and is relatively safe. We do slow-boat quite often as well. Our Maxum boat did not do slow speeds well at all, very much as you described. On our RT27-OB, we often will do 7kts at 3gph and its quite comfortable as well. As long as we're doing at least 3kts the auto-pilot handles fine and the boat tracks well. No issues at all with control in the 6-9kts range.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I did look at Cutwater also. It was either a 24' boat or a 32' Cutwater (The models with outboards). The 24' was small, and the 32footer with twin F300 outboards was sweet!! But was way out my price range also. In addition, I felt the interior fit and finish of the Ranger Tug line was better than Cutwater.

[@jeremybeckman1296]

Thank you.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed our video.

[@billmiller3075]

Keep in mind draft. For those boaters wanting to fish/crab in coves/inlets an outboard gives you the advantage of tilting the motor up slightly to navigate shallow water. Same applies to tidal swings in shallow water. A tilted up motor is much more practical than a fixed inboard draft.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

The outboard also would kick-up it it hit anything.

[@bradmercier8267]

Thanks for this

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

My pleasure!

[@Bigfishfun333]

Good video. Why is an inboard so much slower than an outboard?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Inboards don't have to be slower than an outboard. In the Ranger Tug lineup, the outboards are faster. The inboards (diesel) are slightly more fuel efficient than the gas outboards. But up on plane, the gas outboards can burn 27gph. The diesel inboards sip fuel more slowly.

[@johnobrien6869]

Diesel sterndrive? Just throwing it out there for comment. Any thoughts?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

There is at least 1 Ranger Tug that I know of which they made as a stern drive. The outboards are way more popular today than stern drives, especially in our salt water waterways. Our last boat was a stern drive, and in the salt water, I wouldn't buy another.

[@stevehanke1842]

When is ranger tugs going to come out with a pilothouse door?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

The R31 has a pilot house door. And the older R29's (2013 and older) also have a pilot house door.

[@stevehanke1842]

How bout the 25 or 27?@@Letsgochannelsurfing

[@dude999642]

Excellent.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Many thanks!

[@bnmartin54]

Nice video ... I'd be curious as to your perception of the overall noise differences between an inboard diesel vs outboard - both at idle and at different cruising speeds. Thanks.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

The F300 Yamaha outboard is super quiet. It's not audible at all in the cabin. In the cockpit, it's barely noticeable that it's running. The T9.9 Kicker outboard is way louder and very noticeable when it's running. The noise heard inside the cabin with the outboard is flow noise of wind and water. The water slapping the hull. The inboard powered vessels you will hear the drone/humm of the diesel.

[@alberbedo9222]

Whats the boat on the left side on your thumbnail

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

It's a picture of a Ranger Tug R27 classic on the left, and our boat, a Ranger Tug R27-Outboard, on the right.

[@frankrice5364]

What do you thank about the out board that the foot is the only thing that turns when steer

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I assume you're talking about the Mercury 600HP outboard. I've looked at it online. Looks interesting. That's a lot of horsepower. In our waters (Puget Sound/Salish Sea), it'd be too much or it'd have to be put on a much larger boat. Cruising speeds in our waters is comfortable around 25-35knots. We have lots of dead-heads, debris, crab and shrimp pots all to avoid, in addition to waves/wakes from recreational boats and commercial ships. Our tide swings are 16 foot and we have lots of rivers that empty into the sound (where the deadheads come from). I watch Haulover Inlet, Miami videos with 40+ foot boats that have 2-6 outboards on the back. Maybe they'd only need 3. Lol. Florida has a different waterway that I'm unfamiliar with. Thanks for watching!!

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

in many cases, its more personal preference. Outboards - easy to remove from the boat, allowing for winter storage, easier shop maintenance (you can just bring the engine in rather then the entire boat), and a level of security in that if you are leaving a boat for a while, you can remove the engine as well. One downside, in some places outboards get stolen... A LOT. Inboards tend to be good for longer running, less maintenance meaning if you are doing a "live-aboard" situation or very long trips theres a certain "safety" about having an inboard. While generally slower, in many cases where you chose to use them, that may not be an issue, for example if you are canal running, Traveling up and down through locks, small lakes, rivers, most of these places have speed limits. You get around some areas and they have enforced 5 knot speed limits... Always worth a laugh watching the people with these small speed boats grumbling about having to crawl along at trawling speeds, through these narrow canals.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Another thing to consider is the planing hull regardless of engine type. We can slowboat up to around 10kts. At that point we're getting the same fuel efficiency as if we were cruising at 25kts. So anywhere faster than 10kts but slower than about 22kts is horrible fuel efficiency. This may matter a lot if you're traveling with other boaters.

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing yep. Then there are the idiots that put to big an outboard on their boat and get into all sorts of trouble that way. I live out on the great lakes... which is a misnomer to most people. People think lake ontario, Lake erie, are just.. lakes like the ponds around where they are. But the storms we get are en part with ocean storms, where our little 29 footer would vanish in the wave troughs... heck, where the waves are coming over the bows of full sized freighters and tankers. sort of prefer trawler and tug hulls around here... and i always cring when i see a pontoon boat going out, when theres a weather warning.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

@@jenniferstewarts4851 the Great Lakes are no joke. The Fitzgerald sank there. More like a freshwater ocean!

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

@@Letsgochannelsurfing The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed When the gales of November came early The Olympic Deep water races are held in lake Ontario every year... Canadian Olympic Regatta Kingston. Boaters from around the world head there and the waters get just brutal... People have swapped from outboard, to inboard boats because of the "wave climbing impacts" and the stress that can put on the transom.

[@cappyjpadgett]

You aren’t just going to take an outboard of the size he has on his boat off. Most are semi perminantly mounted ,except to take off for replacement. And to steal a 400-500lb outboard isn’t as easy as you seem to think it is,lol

[@frankrice5364]

In board all the way

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! I'm glad you found the information useful.

[@MarkENorman]

What is the mileage range difference between inboard vs. outboard?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

That’s tough to answer. It really depends on the size of the fuel tank and the speed at which the vessel travels. We can travel at 25knots for about 1.4nmpg. Around 18gph. Or we can slowdown and do 7 knots for 3nmpg and double our range. Inboards are the same, though their numbers are vessel specific based on fuel efficiency and size of the fuel tank. With 150 gallon gas tank, our range is between 200 and 420 nautical miles. Realistically, we always keep a reserve. 1/3 to get there. 1/3 to get home. 1/3 just in case. So we fill up every 100 gallons or so.

[@mikejernigan3215]

question, How good would this boat do traveling single handed from Fairhope, Alabama to Florida Keys? part B, would you go on outside or travel through GICW?

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

I'm not familiar with that water way. As with any waterway, conditions and weather matter. She can go offshore in the right weather. Mostly though, the RT27-OB is an intercostal cruiser.

[@odinsteinnes6511]

I just passed 1000hours on my 40hp suzuki 2stroke outboards

[@rondarbo9913]

I have had both..When my 300hp outboard gave me trouble in seas, I tried to get to it..Even ir you did manage to get the cover off all you will see is electronics..With my biesel working on it was much easier..You are not going to work on a OB underway

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Correct. I'd drop the kicker down and motor my way to the nearest harbor.

[@basanke]

arrange yourself and 2.2 kW genset, and u have 120V AC on board for hot water and battery charge with outboard

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

We specially don't want to run a generator onboard. Personal preference.

[@wrzl1675]

Gas onboard for generators, not at all true! Only a rookie has a gas generator because they’re super dangerous. Both of my outboard boats have diesel generators. Volvo D4’s ( and most others) are closed loop cooled, not a drop of raw water is running through that engine to cool it except for the exhaust which is always raw water cooled unless you have dry exhaust. Most gas inboards are also closed loop cooled too, these days. Outboards are always raw water cooled and thus the reason you get a lot less hours of service from them and especially if you run them in any % of saltwater. 7000 hours from an outboard is absolutely possible and even in saltwater but the repair bills to do that would be so high that you could’ve replaced them twice. Rule of thumb; outboards for freshwater, any closed loop cooled engines for brackish/saltwater makes for a happier boat owner. Outboards are better in saltwater now but they’re still a far cry from closed loop because those anodes only do so much, they’re not a fix for the problem. I’ve been a boat owner since 1973 and have had them all, gas, diesel, I/O, V-drives, outboards and jet-drives and ranging in power from 15 hp to 3100 hp You’ll like that Yamaha 300, I had them on my 30’ Grady White and they were super reliable work horse engines. I currently have the Grady White 330 Express with twin Yamaha 425’s and you can change all fluids while in the water as well as the anodes so I only have to haul out once a year. I like outboards for two reasons 1. They’re much faster. I’m a boat racer so slow boats to nowhere isn’t me. 2. I have far more below deck room for a bigger generator, gyro stabilizer and auxiliary fuel tank which you can rarely do all of that with inboard boats at under 35 ft.. All that said my next boat will probably be a diesel.

[@Tchristman100]

300hp outboard burns 27.2 gallons per hour at full throttle. A 300hp Diesel will burn about 16 gallons per hour. BIG difference plus BIG safety differences.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

It's all about trade-offs. At 27gph I'm doing 35 knots. We rarely run that fast. Normal cruising is about 25 knots at 18-20gph.

[@viktorjarinov8854]

Thank you Martin. Very useful. I planning to repower now my Carver 28. May I ask you few questions on the email regarding your outboards? Thank you. Subscribed Vic

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Sure! Send us an email channelsurfing at nethkin dot com.

[@jacktyler7599]

Did I miss a comment about 12V power generation off each engine? How do the inboard & outboard alternator outputs compare? And of course, it's quite easy to put a higher capacity alternator on an inboard. Our last 25,000 miles, we relied on a high-cap alternator as our primary charging source for a large bank.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! The outboard has a 70 amp alternator that puts out about 50 amps when up on plane, cruising. The inboards usually have higher output alternators, or at least it's much easier to add a higher amp alternator. Ranger Tug often will put a diesel generator on their inboard boats and not even rely on the engine charging when at anchor.

[@mikeruthford7849]

What do boaters use the dingy for? I'm green and still learning.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Great question! We thought the same thing at first. Things changed a lot for us as our last boat was a day-use boat. Once we had a bathroom onboard, berthing and a galley, the need for a dinghy comes into play. 1) Marine State park - You come upon a mooring bouy. You have to get to shore to pay for the nights stay of using the mooring buoy. 2) You're in an anchorage and you want to go hiking on the island you're moored next to. 3) You have dogs that want to go run on the beach, need to go potty. 4) You're at a guest dock which has a really really really long walk to shore. Take the dingy over to the dinghy dock. This video of ours probably illustrates the use of a dingy really well. We spent a night up in Prevost Harbor, anchored. Start the video at the 5:00 minute mark for the Prevost Harbor/Dinghy portion. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f56VeKlmnq-hfbs

[@thatchh1]

Let's get this cleared up- dingy is an adjective meaning dark and dirty. Dinghy is a small auxiliary boat.

[@AquaMarine1000]

Engine lubrication configuration is better for an inboard.

[@Seawizz203]

I think you’re wrong regarding fuel efficiency. Diesels will burn half the fuel a gas engine, inboard or outboard. Also, the longevity of a diesel is twice that of a gasoline engine. I agree with you that the outboard may be better for the infrequent user. For people who use their boats for cruising or more frequent use diesels are the way to go.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching. Here's some additional information that you may find useful. www.tugnuts.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20163&sid=45f142a9f3a7cf7b7b329d73470e445e&start=15

[@jhudds67]

IMO, you will get 1000's of more operating out of a diesel, over the outboard.

[@johnmcneal9477]

That was a really good comparison between the two. I have come to the conclusion that on our next boat (27-32ft range) will be outboards. I am curious about the original purchase price between a single diesel vs twin outboards? We live in Alaska and there are some very remote spots that you just dont want to be stranded at. (single diesel) If one outboard should fail, you can at least get home. We purchased a diesel vehicle in 2016 and I paid almost $8000 more over the price of a gas motor. Sure we get better fuel mileage, (4-5mpg) but I could have purchased almost 2500 gallons of gas just from the saving of buying the gas motor. That equates to approx 30,000 miles of driving. The saving would be way more then that if you figure in that I still have to purchase diesel to drive that same 30,000 miles. I think this is the exact thing you were talking about how you can go twice as far in half the time with outboards.

[@191246mann1]

did he mention which one is cheaper on fuel ,,,oh well suppose I must be the only one who wanted to know.

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Thanks for watching! At 2:40 in the video I briefly go over performance spec, which is fuel efficiency of the outboard on the RT27-OB The inboards are usually similar in fuel efficiency, but that's not a fair comparison as there are Ranger Tug's with 150HP, 260hp and 320Hp inboards... Other factors to consider also may be the state you live in. In WA state, gas is taxed at the dock while diesel is dyed (tax free). So when I see Port of Everett gas at $3.85/gallon and diesel is $3.13/gallon... I submit all my gas receipts to the state and I get back 30.8 cents per gallon in a refund of the gas tax. So at the fuel dock it'd be $3.54 for gas vs $3.13/gal for diesel. Fuel efficiency between inboard and outboard are similar. Diesel is going to be less expensive any way you look at it. Just make sure to compare it fairly, which is not necessarily easy to do. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gorSc4OEgbNmnq8

[@tomkeating65]

When is ranger boats going to make a real boat?

[@lackamoolah]

Just get a diesel outboard!

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

Who sells diesel outboards?

[@dwightbernheimer331]

You keep using the word speed... I wouldn't buy a Ranger tug or any other tug for that matter if I was looking for Speed... LOL just sayin'

[@Letsgochannelsurfing]

You are absolutely correct! In the context of speed, I'm specifically referring to the speed of inboard Ranger Tugs vs the outboard Ranger Tugs.. The Ranger Tugs with the outboard are significantly faster than the inboards. (WOT of 20kts vs 35kts.). Speed compared to other boats, my RT27-OB is no speed demon for sure! The waterway we spend our time in, being the Salish Sea, cruising at 25kts is perfect. It's fast enough to get where we want, but not too fast in that there are a lot of dead-heads floating around the Salish Sea also that we need to see, spot, and drive around.