Behind The Vinyl: Bob Geldof "I Don't Like Mondays"

In a special "bonus episode"... Sir Bob Geldof goes into great detail about how The Boomtown Rats hit "I Don't Like Mondays" came to be. Bob shares stories about how a lot of people didn't understand what the song was actually about and where he was when inspiration hit.

[@Khyron9]

"The silicon chip inside her head got switched to overload." That's an amazing line that stuck with me since the first time I heard it so many years ago. Amazing song!

[@sexobscura]

it's just a great, poetic lyric

[@gray41]

The killer had a metal plate in her head hence usung this line

[@Peterickenbacker1]

Very intelligent mind, and very creative. World needs more humans like Bob.

[@colinwilliams553]

"AMEN TO THAT, I remember when that song was released more than 43 years ago.Unfortunitly, it is timely as it is today.

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@sexobscura]

but we get what we deserve

[@pete5534]

This song stood out from anything else on radio at the time - brilliant. Sad, sad story / inspiration.

[@mc76]

I remember when this incident happened in San Diego. It was utterly shocking then. Now, it is just...Monday.

[@kevinbrady3063]

Amazing story that is as relevant today as it was then. Great job Sir Geldof 👏 👍

[@roxannemoser]

Maybe even more

[@duncanramsay9262]

Was he actually knighted?😮

[@kevinbrady3063]

@@duncanramsay9262 Absolutely 💯 % Just check with our friend Google and it will tell you all the details of him being knighted by the Queen, shortly after his work on bringing all of the world's biggest celebrity singers together for the Xmas song for Feed the world.

[@kencade6544]

A great artist takes brutality and turns it into something beautiful. Geldolf did an amazing job with this song. Brilliant 👏 👏

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@unperson5713]

My eyes got leaky watching this content. Thank you for sharing.

[@markbirchette8740]

Bob, where the hell have you been ? A musical genius ! You've been sorely missed here in the States !! Wonderful job in The Wall as well. Miss you man. Cheers from across the pond in Utah ✌👣👣👣🍻

[@bonniebickett4520]

Georgia too! I was into punk never really into Greatful Dead, Zepplin nor Allmand Brothers (although they lived in my city) . I liked "different" music. My brother was a DJ and I must admit , Boston, Kansas I was bored when I heard them on the radio. Queen, well hey now! But I would shop at Belk and found so many alternative/punk albums for 6 bucks!

[@beckymcmanus3367]

The Rats are still touring. I have tickets for June

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@stevewiles1769]

A magnificent song from a massively underrated band!! Loved & still love The Boomtown Rats!!

[@GillianRossouw]

I love listening to Sir Bob’s podcasts he is so interesting to listen to Absolute professional

[@mathumphreys]

So amazing to have heard this when it was released in 1979 as an 11 year old and to now hear the story behind how it was written . I remember feeling so scared when I heard the song. Great explanation by Sir Bob!

[@TighelanderII]

I haven't seen him since the mid-Eighties, and yes I know that's a long time ago, it's still a shock to see him 40 years older.

[@steveconnolly322]

You should look up what he’d been up to in the meantime!

[@vilstef6988]

Sir Bob makes me want to write songs. How the chilling and plebian go together in this song is fascinating.

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@Krpfan]

Just an excellent series...Thank you!

[@wadedel6478]

i remember when this song came out in 79. We all knew exactly what the song was about. It wasn't a secret, we all knew it was about the girl in the states that shot her school up. I love the Boomtown Rats, great group. Bob has had a lot of sadness in his life, i hope things are going well for him.

[@CraftAero]

I remember it. Knowing what the song's about changes it immensely.

[@b.d6642]

He actually felt very guilty for writing the song sense it made the girl famous

[@bonniebickett4520]

@@b.d6642 She is still in jail but thanked him for making her famous she need to be put in a psych prison and never let out.

[@roxannemoser]

It wasn't her school. It was an elementary school. She was 16. Definitely not a first grader.

[@denniswoycheshen]

I was born in 1985 so I didn't really understand what this song was about until... Well, today actually. I thought it had something to do with the future. Maybe something catastrophic happens, dad is stunned, mom is chipped up so she knows what to do. Idk. It all makes more sense now. Usually songs aren't written for a reason other than to exist. It seemed like a strange song with creative lyrics not meant for it's time.

[@SpotWorksLNC]

Bob is brilliant.

[@johntogher7356]

When this song came out, i was 14. always related to it because i hated school with a passion, when Sunday evenings came i used to dread Mondays

[@pentachronic]

Sir Bob is a very under-rated poet.

[@martinconnor9840]

I was 11 when this was released and knew the link to the girl shooting people at her school but hearing the full story and logic behind it in such and interesting way is brilliant. I don't know why but I've always wondered where that house at the start and end of the video is? I always wanted to go and stand where the camera is to see the same view. I know, medication time.

[@MrBulldog125]

Great Artist and loved the Boomtown Rats, you will never beat Artist that make and perform music with love and passion.

[@peterjones6870]

Wow! I knew of the reason for the song, but definitely glad I watched this video.

[@marky1924]

Correction: The song was never banned in the U.S. It did go to #73 on Billboard. A great song about a disturbed girl who should have been in an institution, but her dad wouldn't allow it.

[@Kohntarkosz]

It was banned in San Diego.

[@antispindr8613]

But why would he not allow it? Was he concerned how it might reflect on him?

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@tuesdaypatience]

Sir Bob has aged very, very well.

[@scottfranco1962]

I grew up in LA, and remember the incident well. So I when I heard the song on the radio it was like "someone wrote a song about that?". Instantly. Brenda may have been ahead of her time, but unfortunately hatred of school was not, is not uncommon (I was physically abused by a teacher at age 7). At the end of it all, its just a real good song.

[@capedwonder2833]

This guy is a great human being. From raising awareness to Band-Aid to adopting his ex wife's daughter that she had with Michael Hutchence of INXS, after she killed herself after Michael's death, and don't forget she cheated on Bob with Michael and he still adopted her daughter. Not a selfish bone in his body.

[@katinss9983]

otherwise ,the child would have ended up in a british orphanage or maybe be used for child trafficking services , there was no where else for her to go.

[@capedwonder2833]

@@jonathansmuck8380 this is news to me. can you point me in the right direction so I can research what you mean?

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@BillsJetsGiants]

​@@capedwonder2833 Bob Geldof was married to Paula Yates and they had three daughters: Fifi, Peaches, and Pixie. Yates died of a drug overdose in September of 2000. She had a daughter with Michael Hutchence named Tigerlily who is now 27 years old (2023). Bob wanted her to be raised with her sisters and obtained custody, it was a pretty brutal battle with Michael's family in Australia. Sadly, Peaches died in 2014 the same way her mother did. 😢

[@dhill1113]

They had an open marriage. He dated several French women and Paula proved to the court he had 6 affairs that she knew of during their marriage (look up old articles overseeing the court proceedings back in the late 1990s). CLAIRE KING talks about him in her bio (and can be found online) and their affair that continued until after Fifi was born and that he was aware of her affairs. Paula said he met his next gf Jeanne in 94 on the set of Bravehart, B4 Paula filed for divorce. It was nice of him to keep Tiger with her sister though. She looks like she had a very happy upbringing with Bob. Ultimately permission of who got custody was decided by Colin Diamond, Tiger's Godfather and executor of MIchael and then Paula's estate.

[@wolfgangrittner6637]

Amazing spoken words!

[@Karen-nn6kg]

Insightful, succinct, powerful. Well done, letting the artist have their say without any talking heads interrupting with banal questions. Nice touch having the song played underneath. Just great.

[@boom973Toronto]

Thank you... YOU GET IT!!

[@johnnyjoey]

I have this album on vinyl! Amongst my favorites!

[@johnnyjoey]

@@foobarmaximus3506 Very weird response.

[@hoderharris]

Great story and content.

[@aileenwagner2576]

Wow!!! This is such a great interview!! Now I know why I liked him when I first heard him all those years ago! And yes, unfortunately it applies today more than ever!

[@k9kayaks]

Amazing song writer and sad that his words of this song are ever lasting from 79’ to present day 😞

[@susanjoycesabo8450]

Timeless song from an inspired composer. So relevant in 2022---still (sadly).

[@wallsttech6881]

Nashville 2023 too...

[@grimlyfiendish5579]

Geldof is a CREDIT THIEF. Song was co-written with BoomTown Rats guitarist Johnny Fingers. Geldof stole credit until 2019! 5:30 Geldof admits it. MIDGE URE had all of his Live Aid credit stolen. This dude lives in his own imagination where he's oh so important. The BoomTown Rats suck.

[@sexobscura]

the years between then and now is the mere blink of an eye in the string of history

[@vassa1972]

Good stuff

[@tisome52]

I love BG!!!

[@xcaribearx]

I have loved this song for years and I always felt there was a morbid story behind it from the lyrics. Now it makes sense. Incredible!

[@stevehutton5681]

I just subscribed and this is the first "Behind the Vinyl" i listened to. How prophetic and untimely that there was a school shooting in Nashville today. And it's a Monday. Too much.

[@jdraven0890]

I've never liked the song, and that is only a matter of its style - had nothing to do with the incident it was based on. This interview has made me appreciate where it came from and that its own creator didn't originally consider it more than a B-side novelty. Geldolf could easily have claimed he intended it to be some sort of deep magnum opus about senseless violence - but he was honest in that it had humble and confused beginnings, as many songs do.

[@Kohntarkosz]

Just to clarify: the girl the song is about is Brenda Spencer, and yes she was a teenager, who lived across the street from Grover Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego, and on January 29, 1979, she did indeed open for on the school playground, from her house. She killed the school principal and custodian, who were both bravely attempting to get the kids out of danger as the shooting ensued. She injured eight children (one of them reportedly the bullet passed within an inch of his spine) and one police officer. While under siege, before surrendering, a reporter managed to call the house, and asked why she did it and Brenda said "Because I don't like Mondays", it wasn't while the shooting was actually happening. I saw a documentary about 15 years ago where they interviewed various officials and a reporter in San Diego about the matter, and the reporter makes a comment about I Don't Like Mondays being "pretty sleazy". I suppose I understand his point, as he sort of lived through the events, so maybe he felt someone writing a song about it as being opportunistic or whatever, but art is frequently inspired by the worst and most horrific things that happen to us. But I'm not sure this guy saw that side of it. From what I understand, for many years, San Diego radio stations refused to play the song because of the connections there.

[@maddymud]

how did I never hear about this shooting? I only remember the McDonald’s one near SD

[@Kohntarkosz]

@@maddymud I first heard about it back in the late 80's, when I read a "rock encyclopedia" book that alluded to it, when the topic of I Don't Like Mondays came up.

[@patrickmay5628]

thank you for that

[@DeliberateContrarian]

By that line of logic wouldn't "Saving Private Ryan" or "Schindler's List" be sleazy?

[@Kohntarkosz]

@@DeliberateContrarian Well, I think the point was this reporter guy thought that Geldof was exploiting the tragedy, for opportunistic reasons. I don't think that's what happened, I think Geldof wrote a song that reflected his shock about the event, as opposed to thinking "Oh, this is something I can make money from".

[@Langelierdesigns]

He was Fantastic in "The Wall"

[@mogulhopper]

What a guy, sir Bob always commands court when he speaks. Legend

[@PheasantPluckersMate]

Hey Stu! Good to see you! This is an awesome series, by the way! Go BOOM!

[@Saabdude40]

Stu Jeffries...wow it's been a long time since I've seen him....GOOOD ROCKIN' TONIGHT!!!!!

[@roberthickman2953]

Can't wait. BTV rocks!

[@genalawson-northrup6682]

Brilliant!

[@violet6111]

no bob, it was not banned in the united states. it came out soon after the shooting. i remember it vividly.

[@stanleybaldwin225]

Quote:"he wrote it in a strange frame of mind"

[@MsGrandunion]

I was 13 when this came out and I had no idea then what it was about, I was one of those who just thought it was about Monday morning drudgery, same old routine. At 13 I didn't see much news and wasn't aware of the incident in San Diego. Now I know the background, its a far more complex and profound song that just the one I thought it was.

[@MrBillcale]

bless you bob

[@alanwood5857]

Always loved the Boomtown Rats

[@LauraMalcolmLive]

keep well, bobby

[@seansirvaitis1622]

Rest easy, Bob. I’m sure this track has dissuaded more shootings than it’s promoted. I think it accentuates the pointlessness and futility of such actions. Love your art!!

[@nickrandazzo4162]

A really popular infamous song that, like he said most people just breezed over the content. Unfortunately, we can pinpoint in history when these events began happening, by when this popular song came out-when I was 16.

[@VMX1.]

Fantastic episode.....amazing details.....BTW....What are the speakers in the background?

[@boom973Toronto]

Crappy ones, lol. They don't work, they are only there for esthetics.

[@JoeyLevenson]

That’s Sir Bob!

[@dirgepiper6428]

Man is amazing.

[@DunmoresMovieMania]

What am amazing backstory!

[@barbarahourigan8462]

💜

[@rasraccoon1270]

Oh please, oh please, oh PLEASE do Mike Oldfield | Moonlight Shadow!

[@LANDSEAAIRCANADA]

Great idea !

[@herbyverstink]

Though i already knew of part of this origin story, the Bill Gates bit was new to me. Very interesting .. and of course great band/great tune/great singer-songwriter

[@stevemalouf8009]

It's a song about LAURIE DANN in upscale Cicago suburb.

[@darrenelkins5923]

Weird how many great songs are made by accident in a short time

[@AdamLeite]

I always loved this song without knowing the history . Now I feel sad for liking it.

[@drewmacdonald7031]

who would've thought he would write a song about a school shooting and take it to number one

[@WordslingingStephen]

Have you guys interviewed Murray McLauchlan yet? He's somebody I want to hear from!

[@boom973Toronto]

We did some of these with Murray, they will be out this year.

[@WordslingingStephen]

@@boom973Toronto Lovely! Thank you! Keep up this amazing work. I love it...

[@aprilgosa5779]

I like him he is a sweet thoughtful person

[@keeneyeful]

Such a sad story behind the song. Yet sadly it still happens, and yet we still continue to advance, yet we still get no better.

[@dancinditedforyears6736]

God save us for what is coming with AI. I have great respect for Sir Bob. I hope he is well. It's great to hear the entire story as I grew up knowing the information as to what it was about .

[@danstuart670]

16-year-old Brenda Spencer's attack injured eight children and killed two adults. When asked why she did it. She didn’t like Mondays

[@oystershucksters4206]

Congress should make it our new national anthem.

[@pennyscottwarner]

Great Lyrics

[@toddrushton3240]

What a mad society we've created.

[@alicechamplin4247]

Get Morrissey on here Cute😍 Bob is brilliant.

[@krisscanlon4051]

Flipping Mutt Lange production is the part that gets obscured...well there is a lot there to get obscured.

[@wobblewobble7330]

Bob 😷👍

[@Datsun510zen]

I'm sorry everybody, but I have a very different perspective on this. I Don't Like Mondays was the springboard that gave the Boomtown Rats enough notoriety to make them a crap ton of money in America. It made Brenda Spencer a teenage malcontent folk hero, and fed the sickness of gun violence that took John Lennon from us the following year. In fact, Geldof tells the story that Brenda thanked him for making her famous with his hit song. In Bob's own words, he was feeling tired and bored on the tour, because Americans didn't like his music. When this news story broke over the telex from 3,500 Km away, he wrote this song because "it fitted in with the mood I was in". Instead of being contrite for capitalizing on this horror in that way, Geldof twists details around to give it his own tabloid dramatic effect. He shows ZERO empathy for anyone but himself and in my opinion, he comes off like an attention seekimg vulture content to feed off yet another American tragedy. The 16yr old shooter was mentally ill and had access to guns. Unfortunately she lived across the street from Grover Cleveland Elementary in a suburb East of San Diego. These were kids she opened fire on, ages 5-12. So no Bob, it was not "her school friends" she was killing in the real story. The police were called immediately and arrived shortly after the shooting had begun. SDPD blocked her line of sight to the school and she barricaded herself in the house for hours. That's when she spoke to a reporter, and not "as she sighted up another victim" as Geldof grotesquely tells it in his hyperbolic yarn. Wake up Boom listeners, 8 children were shot, the principle and janitor were killed and a cop was also shot trying to get the kids to safety. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT TO LEARN WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, PLEASE KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT BOB, because this is real.

[@MasterDecoy1W]

Seven uninterrupted minutes of artistic process and interesting, layered references: "Goodness, what a visionary." sChOol ShOoTiNgS hApPeN aLmoSt EvEry wEEk iN tHe UnItEd StAtEs: "Oh no... it's retarded." Meh, perfectly balanced, I guess.

[@crimson6952]

I have never seen/witness a school shooting occur. It doesn't happen often, the mainstream media just blows it up.

[@pellelindbergh4455]

funny how thing remain the the same with mainsteam radio

[@bonniebickett4520]

Genius/smart/intelligent and research

[@fergussonphotography6407]

Always political and always has a relevant poignant message when he speaks . . . got to love him for it. He should have been a politician he would have got things done. I remember stories of when he put Live Aid together band members saying you didn't say no or asked Pink Floyd to reunite, David Gilmour saying it was easier just to do it than to say no to Bob Geldof. lol A true legend . . . hate his music though except this song. hahah

[@stormhawk3319]

“I don’t like multi millionaires telling working class Brits to donate their money to Africa into corrupt ruler’s pockets” would be a good song.

[@fractalelf7760]

People wonder why the music from the 70's still resonates - it's because that generation of music people were simply both more musically experienced and also more intellectual. Now its just attitude and silliness which lasts 5 minutes.

[@adamrosen5446]

So true...well.said...good music for me took a nose dive with the advent of disco in 1975. There is a reason songs from the 60s and 70s in particular are played all the time...they are timeless.

[@trixiegeldofofficial]

Cute😍

[@CircumlunarFeasibility]

Which bands would be considered corporate rock.

[@silversteel6312]

Mick Jagger in a silver wig, anyone?🤔

[@bonniebickett4520]

what collage station in Atlanta?

[@PenGwynPublishing]

WRAS.

[@WireWeHere]

An interesting half witted episode of House MD...the one with a 50 50 the dumpster's a pianist. Feels a lot like I may have just mentioned the name of the episode. Too much like backtracking to erase it. Woe, did some body switch to deja viewing?

[@aquatarkus2022]

The girl is still in prison. She is also a member of the rainbow community. As are a lot of mass shooters.

[@stanleybaldwin225]

Repetition is the key to mind control repetition is the key to mind control repetition is the key to mind control...repeat...

[@MiningMyBusiness]

Happy Accident

[@thomasmercado7546]

profound

[@antispindr8613]

As strange as that was at the time, it almost seems normal by today's standards. For recently a six year old girl was given a gun and - to become online 'star' - was filmed by her parents shooting at stuff. So for all wrong reasons, might not everyone get their 15 mins of fame?

[@MultiMeg101]

You wrote it Eh?

[@helenmcnamee9067]

Amazing song , I love it BUT wtf are we still getting adverts for Ethiopia and more where did all the money go?

[@sillykatb7874]

YOUR A FUCKING GOD!! ❤❤❤❤

[@phillynott2459]

Too bad his mentor and musical superior, Phil Lynott (me), is not here to play "The Boys Are Back In Town" and talk about it.

[@boom973Toronto]

Doors are open when you're in Toronto next!

[@stanleybaldwin225]

It was not an unlikely hit it was promoted heavily... With full production value that the studio could put behind it including a symphony... Romanticizes a tragic event...and play it over and over and over and over again....

[@Kohntarkosz]

"Corporate rock, which we intended to do away with". See, that's the thing that's always driven me crazy about punk and new wave. Some of those records are really good, but I was always put off by that whole "drawing a line in the sand" business, this whole "Us versus them" nonsense. It wasn't enough that you make some great music, you gotta come on like you think this is the Russian Revolution, and all the old "corporate rock" (whatever that's supposed to be) people are somehow the equivalent of the czar and his family and we're gonna execute all of them. Always a turn off to me. And ya know, it would have been one thing at the time, because you know, you've got an image consultant telling you what to say in interviews, but to bring it up decades later, like you STILL feel that way...I'm sorry. I just find that whole thing annoying, but that's probably because I started my life a music listener listening to all the stuff the punks and new wavers supposedly hated (and that's the other thing, finding out decades later a lot of those guys in fact did NOT hate that stuff, but they had to say stupid things in the press to maintain their credibility/careers/whatever).

[@adrianbrun5229]

Get Morrissey on here

[@boom973Toronto]

BTV is one of those things that the artist makes themselves available for and we don't fly them in to do it. We are a Toronto radio station that has an open invite for artists to stop by and record an episode. We'd love to have him.

[@Alpha_7227]

So how did you manage to get the eloquent, brilliant man Bob Geldof

[@boom973Toronto]

@@Alpha_7227 His publicists reached out to us as they were in town doing press for the album. It was a jackpot moment for sure.

[@Alpha_7227]

Right place, right time. Keep up the great work. Look forward to Morrissey, or Johnny Marr; Robert Smith. I could go on forever. Have a great day, stay safe.

[@alukuhito]

Morrissey almost never talks to the media, but that would be amazing. I can imagine Marr doing one of these though.

[@MultiMeg101]

Is this the song that he lied about writing it himself and payed out of court settlement?

[@44Celt]

He wrote it but the Rats pianist Johnnie Fingers claimed he co wrote it. It was originally written as a reggae song with guitars/bass etc but the piano is a quite a big factor in the song, so Fingers wanted some credit

[@MultiMeg101]

@@44Celt I just find it really strange that such a strong personality like him would settle out of court just to give someone else some credit because he wanted it after all these years 🙃 And also why he hasn't been questioned by the press in an interview about it to explain why he done it now and out of court? Yeah ok

[@44Celt]

@@MultiMeg101 There was a verbal agreement between the Rats that all monies would be shared 7 ways [including Fachtna O'Kelly manager] They split in 1986 under bad feeling, so Geldof automatically got the royalties as he was the main songwriter - He settled out of court to mend the rift and eventually they got back together [4 of them]

[@MultiMeg101]

@@44Celt Well o certainly don't believe it he could have settled years ago if he really does have some dignity Fingers had to take him to court over it nearly bankrupt him doing it

[@44Celt]

@@MultiMeg101 I suppose if they weren;t talking , he wasn't going out of his way to help Fingers - until he took him to court. geldof called fingers "delusional" and it was all a figment of his imagination Who knows the real truth, its always gonna be "I said ,he said"

[@Kohntarkosz]

School massacres happen all around the world, Bob, not just in the US.

[@martinmalcolm2747]

Food for thought 2021 United States 288 school shootings next highest on the list was Mexico with 8.

[@Kohntarkosz]

@@martinmalcolm2747 Your point being what? Just nobody got shot in Scotland or wherever in 2021 doesn't mean it never happened.