bell hooks and Laverne Cox in a Public Dialogue at The New School

A Public Dialogue between bell hooks & Laverne Cox hosted by Eugene Lang College of Liberal Arts (www.newschool.edu/lang)
Laverne Cox is a critically acclaimed actress who currently appears in the Netflix original series Orange is the New Black, playing the groundbreaking role of “Sophia Burset,” an incarcerated African American transgender woman. Laverne is the first trans woman of color to have a leading role on a mainstream scripted television show. Time Magazine named Sophia Burset the 4th most influential fictional character of 2013.
bell hooks (née Gloria Watkins) is among the leading public intellectuals of her generation. Her writings cover a broad range of topics including gender, race, teaching, and contemporary culture. This fall marks the 20th Anniversary of the publication of Teaching to Transgress: Education as a Practice of Freedom, Dr. hooks’ seminal book on educational practices. This weeklong residency is an opportunity for The New School community to directly engage with Dr. hooks and her commitment to education and learning as a place “where paradise can be created”.
For more information on the bell hooks residency | www.newschool.edu/lang/bell-ho...

[@50ftQueenie89]

I think the point where bell hooks brings the question of blonde hair and representation into the discussion is really quite great, and Laverne handles it really well.... I don't see any hostility or aggression? I don't know what people in this comment section are up in arms about tbh. If you've read bell hooks work and know who she is I don't think that line of questioning is at all surprising, and what's more I think it is very relevant to have an honest discussion about it, regardless of the generation gap and what you think is polite and appropriate.

[@malekeglee2307]

It interesting to see how hook's consistent acknowledgment on the fear of criticism is played out in the reception of her remarks within the comments. There can be space for her to question choices of Laverne that need not be received as an "attack". If that persists, and we safeguard respectful dialog to this end, then we will forever be in a space of gray, where truths are hidden in fear of projected aggression.

[@GoogleUser-wy2vv]

bell hooks doesn't disappoint. I appreciate her comments about safety, the orange TV show, working as a slave for money and finding a role in the framework that you can live with...

[@mikeofcetacea]

The "Safe Space" critique was such a good moment. I fear the stifling lack of conversation in topics that involve traumas, and to hear an alternative in the form of cultivating courage is incredibly promising. Safe Spaces and Trigger Warnings can be terrible deterrents to conversation (offered almost exclusively by white cis-gendered feminists), and more often than not reinforce the power and tyranny of violence.

[@buttress]

i love what bell hooks said about personal accountability in the context of communal solidarity... i think this is a concept that liberal feminism has largely butchered, unfortunately, by making the new gold standard the idea that the only person any woman needs to be accountable to is herself... while i think it's true that nobody NEEDS to do anything, in the realm of feminism this becomes untrue, if the goal of feminism is the betterment of women as a whole.

[@Jessica.Rachel]

wonderful, important conversation. thanks for sharing.

[@KerryLuckett]

Love, love, love! And it is funny what one can learn through friendly debate. People do not debate--they tend to attack. And even though hooks took some aggressive stances, she and Cox were able to tease out quite nuanced points. Well done, my sistas!

[@brookeshores26]

bell hooks needed to stop rushing laverne n criticizing her "not making eye contact" ??? wth... every time laverne speaks i want to hear more

[@marcyjayne2767]

I truly felt like Laverne was just rambling on and on

[@RB-oz1mm]

Amazing duo.

[@brillancecee2065]

This is everything! !!!!!

[@mcwarhol17]

"gurl get your money straight" thanks for coming back to Earth...

[@pinkcloudsnightlightbell]

Truly amazing conversation. Taking away so much about militancy, courage, and spirituality from these ladies.

[@pinkcloudsnightlightbell]

***** I didn't know this!!! Thank you!!!! WOW

[@benjammin4840]

bell hooks runs court on Q&A!

[@michellejcoker2003]

Awesome!!!!

[@nazuraasaseyeduru4186]

Thanks will listen to later. yea bell hooks!!!

[@Kwintessential2]

I don't think Hooks understood what Laverne meant by the word "risks" or safety.

[@somachicasincity4232]

Can we say Amazinggggggggggggggg?!

[@layla89james]

oh Laverne..wear what you want and have your hair the way you want and more power to you. I used to feel guilty for being blond and dyed my hair black and stayed out of the sun so I wouldn't like like a tan Barbie. it wasn't my fault but the people in the activist world I was in always looked at me in a certain way and treated me in a certain way that I didn't like. now I regret it and I leave my hair blond and wear what I want regardless of what I look like.

[@slavbarbie]

I don't blame Laverne Cox for choosing the safe way, the blond hair and high heels. She has enough struggle with being a trans woman and I don't think she has an obligation to be subversive on all fronts. But it's fair to tell it how it is.

[@jjw1920]

Laverne u keep being u and don't let anyone make u feel less than for wearing ur hair or wearing clothes u want. Black women and black People in general are criticized everyday. Freedom of expression is ur right

[@soulfuzz368]

This talk is fascinating and is a perfect example of how intersectionality usually falls apart when applied. Too many moving parts to be an effective tool for change and only works as a tool for diagnosis.

[@ladyday]

I love how Laverne sits like a dancer? If that makes sense?

[@insanehaberdasher]

***** Well, she is classically trained in ballet and jazz dance.

[@jennygoodwine2494]

in the portion i'm seeing, bell hooks is taking ABOUT laverne, instead of TO laverne, and also not making eye contact with Laverne. >:(

[@GoogleUser-wy2vv]

Orange is not the new black. Even the title of the show is demeaning. Hmph!!

[@Kwintessential2]

I had a chance to see the documentary #thetword and for me it did shed some light on the difference between transsexual and transgender. #lavernecox

[@jessicaread4880]

to me transsexual is a psychiatrists term. I use transgender and transwoman to describe myself. There is nothing sexual about being born this way. Being fem gay is my sexual orientation. How I dress does not define me but who I am inside my head. Psychiatry uses definitions such as homosexual, transsexual, heterosexual. These words aren't even used in the bible. xJes I am I think and not what I am told to think.

[@Kwintessential2]

***** Its not a matter of being bad or good, just being informed

[@jessicaread4880]

Kwintessential2 but to me these words are just labels trying to define what a person is. I am neither. I would rather be this way. I was born neither. I like some people and not others. We are all born different. We are not born equal. I hate labels. I hate professionals who use them on me.

[@willowmouse4889]

my heroes

[@willowmouse4889]

ok

[@kleversonjdsr7986]

"queerness and lesbianism privilege" ppl are going too far...

[@ChristianLogicTV]

I agree

[@gqbloke]

🙌🏽

[@earthakittsghost1391]

I was a little disappointed with bell hooks, i felt as if she was attacking Laverne a little.

[@patriciaabraham9301]

bell hooks is being a bit aggressive here towards Laverne Cox, around the 33 minute mark. Here, I think we have to remember that Laverne is transgender and has embraced a feminine identity, so her adorning herself with blonde wigs and high heels is a bit different from a women, born a woman, using these things. As transgender, in a hetero-normative world that is against a person who was gender assigned a male at birth appropriating the female aesthetic, Laverne is being transgressive in her "femaleness" because of the danger she faces in her reality. Most importantly, I don't think feminists and feminism should force women to aesthetically present themselves in ways they don't agree with, but instead to be cognizant of the ways their image and choices align or attack the idea of the male gaze and rock their look regardless.

[@Khoop98]

this comment was so long ago, but i just wanna say amen! you really described exactly what i was thinking.

[@emilyeerosew]

She IS a critical theorist, she can critique anything

[@layla89james]

it looks like bell hooks is wearing lipstick. if she can wear lipstick than let Laverne wear her shoes.

[@LiilLouii]

Who does Laverne mention around the 19:39 mark? I can't quite catch the names. Thank you in advance!

[@TheRsquared906]

+Black Lipstick. Susan Batson and Debra Messing (of Will and Grace)

[@LiilLouii]

TheRsquared906 Many thanks! :)

[@MissCommo]

bell hooks called her lorraine cox at one point :/

[@aerobiclust]

SLUG LIFE :)

[@mysticjason05]

I respect Bell Hooks a lot but to me she seemed to come off as a little petty in this one.

[@Rob-we2sr]

+Jason Durham "You're avoiding eye contact?" like girl.. please.

[@fruitbatsmith4305]

When a person accuses someone of being petty based on unnoticeable and inconsequential nuances doesn't that also make that same person petty too?

[@monster2me]

lol college students can be so awkward and self-centered. laverne was amazing, but hooks came out a bit cocky. i mean yes she's amazing and all, but yea just sayin

[@julie861]

I mean, if you helped shape many people’s thought about critical consciousness, I’m sure you would too. Plus there’s such a change from feeling like you absolutely can’t do anything (bell in her youth) versus being an adult and thinking of yourself as someone who does in fact have value.

[@tracydunston118]

Anybody wanna address the skin bleaching and blonde wigs and how thats a correlation to self hatred?

[@amyfalconer1660]

Tracy Dunston Skin bleaching?

[@amyfalconer1660]

Also scolding someone for hating themselves is really counter-productive.

[@nehaiqbal2433]

Idk why but why did Hooks just say "Ok Ok we get it" to that student who was just explaining the issue like hes just asking a question you dont have to be disrespectful. And Cox looks so gorgeous.

[@Roarzan]

Honestly, I feel Laverne has already surpassed Hooks in terms of talking clearly/coherently and the depth of the things she talks about.

[@chipfaith2852]

wtf????? ur kidding right?

[@macphallic]

I think i'm gonna have to also say WTF????? Hooks is a theory legend, if it were not for her, Laverne nor the rest of us for that matter would have the kind of searing critical analysis on oppression/domination that many recognize as clear, concise and overall praise-worthy. I feel as though our praising of one black woman over another; especially one who is more critical and a devoted dissident thinker, cuts directly to the heart of what hooks describes as our cultural resistance to embrace dissident thinkers especially when they challenge and raise the difficult questions, and do not go along with the status-quo.The fact is, we are such a plantation/celebrity/binary culture. Which reveals itself by how we comment on here. And in a culture such as ours, any genuine discussion or analysis of POWER/JUSTICE offered up by a person (especially a radical black woman), often gets undermined by the superficiality of our observations and assumptions. That superficiality operates to trivialize, discredit, and de-legitimize the power, positionality and analysis of the dissident voice. Those of us who sincerely believe in JUSTICE must be careful not to contribute to that superficial silencing.

[@clevawoman]

+Ethan A love what you wrote here. This is what i find problematic with Bell

[@Rutharits]

if you are truly free you'll walk into a bathroom despite the sign. Perhaps our fallacy is that we want freedom to be easy. Why are we constantly begging the dominant structure to accommodate us? That is not destroying it its appeasing we are still regarding it as an authority of our identities behaviors etc.

[@marcyjayne2767]

bell hooks was condescending toward Cox but also it is kinda offensive to even put them on the stage together. One is professor/academic/author/activist and one is an actress/activist. Of course bell hooks called out Laverne who often seemed ill prepared and rambled on and on.

[@iwasborntobefly]

laverne is not a woman.

[@graemeh2009]

Yes she is.

[@k.manjericao1583]

graemeh2009 No, he's not. Being woman is not being feminine.

[@iwasborntobefly]

Keli Alexandre exactly.

[@k.manjericao1583]

graemeh2009 Well, i just don't give a shit about misoginist male's issues. To think that you can be a woman only because you like to wear dress or lipstick is like to think that you can be a black person only because you like rap or rasta culture.

[@iwasborntobefly]

graemeh2009 nobody is saying laverne or any trans person is not a good person or is less human. i am saying laverne is not a woman. that's it. laverne is a man who thinks he is a woman, i imagine got surgery, and tries to dress, act and live as a woman. you really have no idea what it means to be a woman if you think that's all there is to it.

[@Bill_Dippertly]

Being black and trans always trumps black and woman. The trans person wins this debate hands down.