Benefits of Freezing Coffee. Research and tips

[@bruimprov]

Fantastic video! I started buying premium coffee at George Howell’s Coffee Connection first stores in the 1980s. Freezing was the preferred method of storage. I met a Latin American coffee distributor who was visiting George and they suggested freezing after 5 days of opening the bag. Starbucks bought out George’s stores and the prevalent philosophy was store in a “air-tight” container which of course they sold in their stores. I have vacillated over the years about freezing coffee. The conventional wisdom in the U.S. is not to freeze. Your video has changed my viewpoint!

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Thank you and thanks for sharing your experiences, funny how it comes full circle.George was ahead of the curve

[@bruimprov]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 George has a mail order company in MA. A store also in the Boston area. In those halcyon days, roasts were easily distinguishable- e.g.aged Sumatra and regular Sumatra, different varietals of Ethiopian. Now it's more of a mash. Do you have a video on French press?

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

@@bruimprov Afraid I dont., I have taken a break form videos whilst writing a new book. but will keep it in mind!

[@4M0R4L]

SO glad to see you producing content again! Always great insight and very well structured argumentation. Really exciting to see what future holds!

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Thanks so much !!! really appreciate the support.

[@fordlaz7796]

Awesome vid. I loved how you broke down the particle distribution curve into surface area:particle size. This explains why different burrs/grinders with similar particle distribution characteristics produce such differing cups. I single dose so freezing is an easy technique when using predosed vials. Grinds are much fluffier when grinding straight out the freezer. However it does change the dial-in so that must be taken into consideration if also grinding room air temp beans.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Hey ! I’ve not found much change in dial in to be that beneficial: how do you tend to change your recipes. I think the particle dist change is countered by the brighter sweeter flavours and I end up similar recipe.

[@finophile]

thanks, excellent topic. On the subject of freezing unground roasted coffee I've been doing it for about 10 years (but not always). If I can conveniently go to my roaster and get what I want fresh, then I do just that. But where I live now that's just not practical. So, just like when I lived in Finland, I'd freeze roasted coffee and then thaw (in a sealed bag), grind and brew. To me the water issues (and crystalisation) is obviously a non issue because (as you observe) the coffee is pretty dry after roasting (even before roasting as a seed). However a point not usually discussed is the activity of the high molecular mass aromatics and what their freezing points (thus activity) are. To my mind (short of doing some chromatography and other analysis) the easiest way is to use your nose. If you can smell it, then its escaping where it was in the bean. I don't typically get that smell when I open my zip seal bags and tip my frozen beans into my thawing container, but I do smell them when I open the lid after they are thawed. Next I want to say on the topic of "vacuum sealed" that this is bad for two reason; aromatics are stripped out in lower atmospheric pressure and probably some desiccation is further facilitated before its frozen. I (just like my film chemistry) prefer to minimise the air (oxygen being the culprit) in the freezing container and so I use "zip seal freezer bags" and then just roll the bag down to minimise the air in there without actually trying to suck the pressure lower. Its worth noting that I've never found traces of ice on the inside of my coffee freezer bags, but I do with frozen vegetables (as the water sublimates out of the food and onto the plastic bag). Very little discussion goes into the mobility of CO2 in the bean, and how successfully its trapped. This is to me the reason why frozen roasted beans that are just that bit lower in crema when than when freshly roasted. Thanks again for your discussion.

[@anguswalker104]

For filter coffee - which I can only brew at the moment - I freeze the coffee a week after its roast date if I will not use it within 3 weeks (from roasting). I will actually freeze it in the bag it comes in as its completely sealed. I then defrost it over night and separate it into single doses that I seal in test tubes with air tight lids. I then sore it at room temp away from sunlight & any moisture. Aside from freezing - I have noticed that the bloom / CO2 release a week after roasting is very different to the bloom a week or two later. I've found that the sweet spot is about two weeks after roasting, so to manage this, I'll let the ground coffee rest for 10 mins (ish) if its a week old and reduce this to 5 mins after two weeks, then nothing by about 3 weeks. I was getting a very bland & dry coffee if I brewed it straight away thinking freshly roasted coffee was always going to be "best"! My question is - if I've let the coffee rest enough at room temp before freezing and then grind straight from frozen change the bloom character such that the grinds will need to "breath" before brewing?

[@andylavy]

We do keep our single estate coffee's in the freezer for almost a year now. The coffee aroma when we grind them straight out of the freezer is as intense as it was when we first got them fresh and the flavor is still the same as when we first tried them fresh.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Thanks Andrea. Great to hear of your positive experiences with freezing coffees !

[@BBuchanan3]

I tried your method of grinding frozen beans this morning, and was shocked how brighter the cup was!

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

surprising isn't it!

[@BEANEXTRACT]

Great video, great science. 👌 May I ask where you got those stackable bins in the background?

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

rubbermaidproducts.co.uk/rubbermaid-square-brute-container-151-4-l-grey/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjbcgIf0Rxq104r6Wb9NT9803kCHDtbrPoe9PkvoMWjPcd2ZpsasbXQaAuAtEALw_wcB 👍👍👍

[@BEANEXTRACT]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 Amazing! Thank you. 🙏

[@edwardshurla355]

Yes just started freezing this past year. I would say fresh roasted at peak 1-2 weeks has more complex flavors that get lost after freezing. Its still a great practical way to have coffee be almost as good. I was worried it would ruin the coffee but it stays good for much longer than a air tight canister , so far I only have frozen less than 1 year about 4-8 months . Great channel ! just found it

[@rosslyncoffee]

Congratulations on the channel Mr Maxwell. Did you see any correlation for the need of recipe adjustments from frozen to un-frozen? Thanks for all you do for the wider coffee community. Team Rosslyn.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Thanks team! I honestly haven’t found the need to change the grind and recipe much. There’s two things at odds, so the grind can be a little finer and more extra table, but then the condition of the coffee itself is less damaged so it doesn’t taste “over” and you dont need to grind coarser. At least this has been my experience to date. As the profile is a bit brighter and sweeter one might want to pull longer to taste, but in general I would say don’t worry too much about the recipe in this case and simply try the same recipe frozen.

[@michasitarek1091]

In my opinion it's better to grind a little bit coarser, when brew frozen coffee beans (taken directly from the freezer). I have Mazzer ZM. It has an accurate scale in micrometers. Brew the same coffee frozen vs. coffee in the room temp. in the same time I have to change about 20 micrometers (coarser way).

[@sharing111]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 perhaps would this be due to the grinders' difference, i.e. EK and others -- since the set of grind distribution of EK is different than the others

[@mikejordan4428]

Hi Maxwell, Really interesting video. What is your experience with dialling in frozen coffee? Would you take note of grind settings when dialling in prior to freezing? Or would this change once the coffee has been frozen and then producing more fines? What would be your approach? Cheers.

[@chrismitchell7470]

Hi Maxwell , how would you recommend freezing single cup portion for around 24hrs, is vacuum sealing required ? Thanks again 😀

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Hi Chris, no it's not. but I would recommend some kind of bag you can roll and wrap tight to keep oxygen and moisture out. I actually think one of the best ways to store coffee beans in general is a simple pack wrapped tight and clipped as there is no head space, compared to tubes or hard containers.

[@sokrispy6673]

thank you for sharing through the video, really interested. few years ago i have tried using nitrogen frozen the grinded coffee and using for competition. yet, we found more fine than not frozen coffee and increase extraction. beautiful aroma, but light body and rarely to see creama however, we also realise that the course side will also increase as well, so to bring out the best of the coffee, we use sieve the course out, but we only tested on the mazzer grinder. have you found that issue as well, or is it because of the grinder?

[@tm-ew9iy]

Thank you for the video I love Kufi so much, I cannot live without it 😔🗿 Can a heart

[@lewismaillardet8493]

Hello Maxwell, yes I freeze coffee. I use pop tops for short term (sub 1 week) and vac seal for the long haul. I’ve had really great coffees after 12 months + come out of the freezer to cup at public events and be best on the table for a majority of people. Does it taste different after a year even vac sealed? Yes, I think subtle changes. Does it still taste good? Yes I think it’s 95% there at worst. Grinding from frozen seems to be the key! I also believe It’s really easy to taste a coffee (particularly cupping) that’s gotten a bit wet coming out the freezer or where the vac seal has failed. Unmistakable after you’ve tasted it. All this is certainly a lot easier if you have a good memory of the coffee at its peak and fresh too!

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Thanks Lewis. That “wet” taste is interesting point. Storing correctly definitely seems to be key. The grinding frozen is way lower stakes compared to storage.

[@lewismaillardet8493]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 indeed!

[@williamdavies3295]

I have been freezing ground & beans for decades!. Have tried several of the canisters that are supposed to keep coffee fresh by creating a partial vacuum, they don’t work really. I have not tried grinding frozen beans though. The hoffman bloke states that freezing spoils the coffee, i disagree. I always defrost ground before using & beans before grinding. But, freezing in a sealed bag means that you can keep it for longer.

[@chrismitchell7470]

I vacuum seal around 50g portions of my coffee a week post roast , then when using I let it thaw for 24hrs (in the sealed vacuumed bag) then use it over 3 - 5 days , would this compare to grinding from frozen ? Much appreciated 🙂 really enjoying the channel !

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

I think that grinding frozen really is better than thawing and it would be great to hear if you find it better compared to thawing when you try it

[@chrismitchell7470]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 will defo give it a try 👍 thank you

[@joyceeky]

Having been born In 1962 I remember in the 80s we did. Freeze coffee Then some study said it messed up the oils in the bean and not to freeze

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

You Had it right all along! Would be interested to see that study.

[@ericthomas9899]

Thanks so much for all that you shared! I freeze single doses (around 20g) in plastic test tubes, that I put in a freezer bag. I'm curious, how do you store your coffee in the freezer? Green and roasted.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Hey! I find a test tube is fine for short term freezing like a few hours . Maybe 24 hours if there’s not much head space, but for longer term freezing including green we use vac packs 👌

[@ericthomas9899]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 Good to know! Thanks!

[@EdoRezaprasga]

what are your thoughts on oxygen absorber and silica gel alongside freezing coffee beans, or vacuum alone is more than enough? thank you for the detailed video!

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

I don’t have too much experience with those, theoretically if the vacuum is good and gets oxygen content low enough it should not be much difference then using these techniques to reduce further. But over a long time stoppage these small differences could help. The long time frames do seem to be where people start to see quality lowering. I wonder if a nitro flushed container may be better than vacuuming as vacuuming itself can degrade coffee a little. I would like to try a container nitro flushed to a v low oxygen content.

[@yoditonugrahacky765]

I got bad experiences with oxygen absorber. They ruined the coffee. Jonathan Gagné made a post about it.

[@EdoRezaprasga]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 thank you for the thorough response

[@HoneycombManila]

I've been wondering if there's a consistency argument to be made for smaller cafes serving only 30-60 cups a day, using a big chest freezer to store an entire palette of coffee from the same harvest and roast date, and then serving it for an extended period of time. This would replace a weekly order from a roaster. Every day, the cafe could pull out of the freezer and equalize tomorrow's bag of coffee.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Hey! yea this is a super interesting idea. I like it.

[@alexw928]

One thing not covered was perhaps bulk freezing a kilo+ for espresso use where single dosing would not be appropriate. In this case, assuming it was split into a couple of vac sealed bags (let's say 200-300g), I assume a protocol of allowing it defrost and come to room temperature to prevent condensation would be the way to go. My thought is - how is the staling process from that point affected? Going to assume that off gassing (especially once accelerated under vacuum) is going to be killer once the beans are reintroduced to an oxygenated environment. Edited for clarity - thinking that lower CO2 concentration is going to allow a faster rate of oxygen uptake & therefore rancidification/oxidation. Be interested if it's a viable route - thinking off-season comp coffees and the like

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Hey Alex, This is a really good point. yes it is a challenge to get freezing to work on bulk for roasted coffee as every time you put the coffee through the post freezer process you are essentially adding some "age"/degassing if you don't use it there and then. One would need to defrost it in the bag, as you say and then use it. I haven't personally done enough testing of. these kinds of processes/protocols to see weather the deforested coffee would hold up then in a bag for a week of use on bar for example. I would love to test more, and I agree it needs looking at, as these individual dosing processes aren't practical both operational and in terms of packaging waste.

[@alexw928]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 I'm quite keen to look into it now. I'll share findings, although of course the plural of anecdote is not data!

[@noohoozfurra]

Crikey, Max. Another mind fark! I seem to recall the biggest objection to freezing beans (and not that long ago!) was simple avoidance of water (ice) ingress. Now here we are, with the 'no question, freeze dem' theory. Jeez, everything moves/changes so bleedin' fast. Anyhoo, I've just commited a lil' bag of luvverlies to the cryo unit and will defo give the 'shattergrindbrew' a shot...

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

haha, yeah Colin, you had it all wrong haha, let me know how shattergrindbrew tastes :)

[@danilodeandrade4725]

I’ve seen a lot of coffee professionals doing a frozen coffee research and experiments on espresso based. Has anyone done any research on frozen coffee for filter coffees or even cuppings?

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Hey. Yes all of this is also relevant for filter and cupped coffee. If you cup two coffees side by side with one frozen the frozen one is best👌

[@christophmeier4101]

Your grinder and its burr geometry has a far bigger impact on the taste than any freezing.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Agreed

[@nicktobey7183]

You should degass outside at room temperature in an upper cupboard with no light in a cool place for around 14 days then freeze. It doesn't degass in the freezer. Your essentially halting time on slow motion in the freezer. It cant degass in a freezer.

[@MrMeelypops]

If the beans are more brittle and more fines produced when they're frozen then why is it the case that the frozen grinds taste better if the grind is likely to be less consistent?

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

This is the thing about grinding. Fines don’t mean inconsistent per se. An ek produces more fines than other grinders but has a tighter spread. The most challenging grind is one with a wide range of particles from big to small. Ek shots run fast bit because they are “coarse” but because they are narrower- that’s a separate topic as to why a “finer” grind can potentially flow faster if it’s even. So freezing potentially narrows the grind towards finer. Generally I think fines taste worse BUT a fine from freezing isn’t the same as normal fine. Unfortunately I can’t dig into why as I mentioned on my video. But essentially I think the freezing protecting flavour is more important than particle distribution changes.

[@MrMeelypops]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 Ah awesome, thanks for the explanation. Now I'll be escalating the vac sealing project to individual doses!

[@BBuchanan3]

Sorry I'm late to this party. I freeze coffee, 8oz at a time, in vacuum sealed bags. I do this primarily because one of the farms I love on the Big Island of Hawaii always runs out, and I buy several pounds at at time. Interestingly, they, and one other roaster I buy from, are aghast that I would freeze.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Great way to manage a supply shortage! I absolutely noticed a lot of freezing coffee = bad narratives, but Iassumpitons are always worth rethinking, and I think in time freezing will become seen as a positive norm for coffee.

[@RobsDunne]

FRESH TAKE

[@stuartritson3158]

Have you tried frozen capsules?

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

haha, I have not, the coo thing about the capsules is the roller grinder manages to mimic a lot of the benefits of grinding frozen and the aluminium container combined with the low oxygen content is an alternative way of prolonging life like freezing. It would be very interesting to try side by side. A coffee frozen and then ground 12 months later v a capsule 12 months later ...

[@allaahmad3656]

Ive seen companies who brew coffee in a concentrated capsule and freeze it. They ask to pull it out of the freezer, add hot water, and enjoy. Does freezing brewed coffee have any advantage as freezing roasted coffee beans?

[@CuriousBritishTelly]

Now planning to stick a dose of geisha in the freezer tomorrow to see what happens in the cup...

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Let me know !!!!

[@CuriousBritishTelly]

@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 The flavours were certainly more defined, a glorious brew. Will try it with a few other beans too. By the way, loved the Wush Wush beans you were selling at Christmas - very elegant.

[@Fidelis1970]

Amazing... when coffee meets science

[@ruggerobaietta1192]

I think that it tastes better because you cool down the water with frozen coffee and my coffee always tastes better brewing with lower water temperature

[@ruggerobaietta1192]

Because I didn’t get the why it has a better taste when you grind and brew from frozen 🥶?

[@Wheresthesoul]

Do you have the name of that Instagram group? I've been freezing for about 10 years. Mostly with test tubes for 6-24 months with good results. I would vacuum seal and get a -40c freezer if I was looking to store more professionally and longer than two years but I'm not there yet👍.

[@kaheldan]

That grinding portion needs to get leaked!

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

hahaha

[@adammachin]

Sounds like you need a flux capacitor.

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

If you have one I could borrow it really would make my coffee challenges a lot easier.

[@peterboil4064]

TL;DR Freeze your roasted coffee beans. Grind them frozen. Enjoy better coffee.

[@johnnorth5607]

My coffee comes freeze dried, tastes pretty good

[@coffeewithmaxwell1835]

Bants