Benjamin Zephaniah on Windrush, anarchism and his time in North Korea

Poet, writer and activist Benjamin Zephaniah talks to Krishnan Guru-Murthy about the Windrush scandal, how the political system should be torn down and why he spends so much time in China.
Warning: offensive language.
You can also listen to the full interview as a podcast: www.channel4.com/news/by/kris...
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[@nickthepeasant]

Rest In Power Benjamin, his voice will be missed, hope people continue to take inspiration from his work and his personal philosophy.

[@markturpin5667]

Beamin really HAS IT. Humane, intelligent, articulate, far seeing, compassionate, well travelled, informed and truly wise . . Everyone please listen.

[@jessadelix7415]

“I’d like to have a revolution. But everybody’s too busy shopping”

[@FK-xh1qc]

A lot has changed and hats off to the people who lobby for the freedom and justice of all. We are not only deny our civil right but deny our fundamental right to life.

[@sneakyone9865]

Same applies today 😢

[@philippepalmer2968]

rest in peace and poetry Mr Z,your words and rhymes will live on forever and we are truly blessed you share them with us

[@corvusmoneduloides7420]

What a loss. His smile always lit up the room, and he had such a big heart. We'll miss you, humble giant.

[@gickball1]

Benjamin knows the score. What a great, insightful man. Pleasure listening to him speak

[@isabelleg8956]

I wasn't aware of this legend at all until his passing. I am so inspired by him, his active practices, and his powerful voice and presence. What ideas! I see why he is loved and will be missed by so many people. It's true that the death of someone is really their continuation, as Thich Nhat Han would say. This talk is absolutely fascinating. We should all be anthropologists in day to day life, understanding our fellow man in order to break down the divide and rule complex that makes it so easy to split us rather than unite us. Incredible stuff.

[@StevenForester]

Benjamin is a very deep and principled man. I enjoy listening to his philosophy and insights.

[@novocastrianwinter9869]

He gave the speech at my graduation what a privilege

[@josephharley9448]

mine too Oxford brookes

[@DaveyNaples]

You don't know what you've got till it's gone... RIP Professor

[@clairebessel4298]

I love what you stand for Benjamin Zephaniah. I am moved and inspired every time i listen to you. Thank you

[@thinknoetic]

incredible interview, benjamin zephaniah what a legend!

[@gabriel82030]

RIP - you've said it all but in a nice manner with no indignation or grievance at all. Indeed you've lived your life in that you've known light and dark, war and peace and ups and downs within these 60-plus years. Unfortunately people of your calibre usually die young - indeed ahead of their time and I don't know why. So bright and magnanimous have you all along been. Britain in particular and the humanity in general has lost you. Your legacy will keep reverbrating across the world. You've been beyond any academic degrees of the Humanities.

[@josephharley9448]

I graduated from Oxford brookes uni in 2002. Benjamin was the guest speaker. Very impressive man.

[@sloth_e]

I love so much of what this man says. Even the stuff I disagree on, I respect.

[@dremtay8]

More reality.... Brilliant sincere interview that ought to be shown to youths as young as 10 years old

[@lizroberts1569]

Brilliant interview, such a clever compassionate man.

[@davidoldham7448]

what a beautiful man... articulates anarchism clearly and with charm and grace...

[@salehothman449]

This is a incredible man if only each one of us can take just 30% of of his ideology and apply it, will definitely change ALOT to the better,,,

[@jasperlawrence5361]

Yes to Anarchism! Thank you for saying this Benjamin.

[@jseaschippychorley]

amazing talk Benjamin has an insight into life that gives us hope Thank you Benjamin

[@PsyRoadie]

Wise words,.. i love them! Big Up Sir Zepaniah #respect

[@mjkrbjcw]

Benjamin was really loved & respected here in Birmingham….. RIP my man 🙏❤️

[@sukindiamuzik]

WOOO! ANARCHISM! love Zephaniah favourite poet, a figure I look up to love you, man, you speak the truth!

[@dryglide7645]

One of the best interviews I have ever watched and I am so empathetic to where this man has come from and where he has arrived.

[@deanwhitbread]

Simply marvellous interview.

[@patb-d2264]

Waaow!I'm hearing of this insightful man after his death. Rest in peace,wise man. Your words live!

[@jlucie]

What a major loss. Wish we did have him for another 20 years. I was lucky enough to hear him recite some of his poems in the 90s when I was a kid, his charisma and poems where totally captivating. R.I.P.

[@TheXitone]

It's mad how people expect individual anarchists to have all the answers . Anarchism comes about when communities take back power for themselves and dissolve all illegitimate hierarchies . It happens all the time you just dont notice it.

[@marbleblue5127]

I'm just thinking about how someone in his village verbally attacked him. If the number in his village who agreed with that outnumbered the number who supported him he could have been run out of town, with his property and belongings just forfeit. Anarchists are idealists, and always seem to believe that they will be a part of the safe and sane group, but modern Westerners are barely able to organize their own activities. It's a long long learning curve I think.

[@ngugikariuki2218]

Rest in peace rasta. you always tried to inform us but few could comprehend.

[@xuasi]

When he sais "I'd like to have a Revolution, but everbody's too busy shopping" you can actually see that it makes him sad but that at the same time he just kind of ''accepts' it even if he wishes things would change. He makes like a 'stop' after he sais this sentence. It means a lot. His words are powerful cause he doesn't 'say things with bitterness or anger. He makes some statements even while taking sides and explains his point of view so well. This whole interview is definitely necessary to watch - makes me think a lot, personnally. This man is a true inspiration and 'hope his words wil be heard

[@AbandonEarth911]

We need more Benjamins to stand up and be heard. One race,The Human Race.

[@secreteobsession3584]

I agree every time he explains things he says things very peacefully which I've never seen anything like that before maybe I could learn a thing or two in his book

[@rasplastering4278]

@@xenophon3681 you stupid, man said many times he loves this country, how does he hate whites? man been defending himself as his life against racist whites. are you right in the head?

[@crangonvulgaris9820]

@@xenophon3681 The hate you see in him is but an illusion , a projection, a reflection of the hate apparent in YOUR heart.

[@johnsomebody1753]

@@AbandonEarth911 I love your sentiment. But there is one species of human. There are many races of humans, just like there are many breeds, of every other animal. And we are all animals.

[@100suns6]

Hearing Benjamin speaking for 40 minutes just now was nowhere near enough, he's an inspiration. We need more people like him. He is the sort of person youngsters everywhere should see and look up to. UTV

[@TheDreadfulCurtain]

I love this man on so many levels.

[@leonahussey]

That was a fantastic and informative interview.

[@highlandprofile9401]

More of these please CH4...from someone who won't watch telly...EVER !

[@JohnJones1987]

What an incentive to please you then...

[@Andrew_Tate_Personal]

#highland profile I never watch television EVER anymore for many years and I don’t like BBC or ITV either (don’t trust them) but I did enjoy this video :) keep it coming

[@madjohnny4735]

Benjamin a working class hero. Always great to hear him speak. A real inspiration.

[@MrKirklandLaing]

Lovely man.

[@horizonkage]

This is a person that has a point of view I can appreciate. He has experienced racism and community backing against racism. The majority (%99 = factual) in Britain are against racial tribalism. Live your life and let the radicals fade and die.

[@Powerfullmoon]

love love love you and yes, I'm totally with you...I can see it......We (the people) can do it

[@jonathaneffemey944]

Thanks for posting.

[@jethrowest439]

Zephaniah was such a wise and regal life force

[@factorsixty]

Protect this man at all costs.

[@isabelleg8956]

His face and his smile truly do light up a room.

[@Welcome2TheInternet]

dudes like him are the rare occasion that make me proud to be a Brummie. Very rare.

[@upendasana7857]

I really wish this man was still alive,with everysthing going on in Gaza and beyond voices like his are soooo much needed.He was always a voice for justice and against oppression of any kind and always always spoke up.I miss him so much,he was past just getting angry but always about looking for connection and only using anger and outrage when necessary,he was not fuelled by constant anger but by compassion ultimately seeking to make the world better and for people to find connection with one another,looking for connection not division.

[@nickbarton3191]

Brilliant comment, I wanted a revolution but everyone was shopping.

[@irielion3748]

Reading his book now. What a trajectory to the top. If the message is important, people will listen.

[@gopyai3486]

what a great inspirational interview !!!

[@CaptainAndy]

An interesting interview. I think the reason Benjamin struggles to explain anarchism to Krishnan is because, with no disrespect intended to the latter, some of the questions he asks about it are rather absurd. To make one correction: there is no private property in an anarchist society, however there is personal property. It's important not to confuse the two.

[@CaptainAndy]

No. Personal property is different to private property.

[@CaptainAndy]

Again. No. Private property refers to means of production being controlled by private companies rather than collectively by the people. That is not allowed in an anarchist society. All means of production are publicly controlled. Personal property refers to things like your clothes, your mobile phone, your toothbrush etc. etc. Those are not things you are expected to share ownership of in an anarchist society. I am an anarcho-syndicalist to be specific.

[@CaptainAndy]

Ah. So you're an anarcho-capitalist. That's a contradiction in terms I'm afraid. Without a state, you have no means by which to enforce private property rights. Such a society would be a nightmare for all but a very privileged few who have managed to monopolise all the means of production and the wealth there produced. They would be the supreme authority and unquestionable within such a society. Anarcho-syndicalism is a method for bringing about a libertarian communist society. There's absolutely nothing authoritarian about that... unless you're the sort of ignoramus who thinks your mum telling you you have to learn to share and play nicely is what authoritarianism is, which you almost certainly are.

[@animekitty4218]

Just ignore him Captain Andy. He is not engaging in good faith. And I agree with you. The interviewer was very ignorant of anarchism. It was hard to watch when he asked that ridiculous question.

[@tomboz777]

Oh, hi Andy. Didn't expect to see you here.

[@Yourismouter]

great interview! discovered this chap on Russel Howard's Good News and Frankie Boyle's Autopsy/New World Order, he is brilliant and need to see if my Waterstone has any of his books.

[@knightyknight5399]

Cant believe Benjamin is 60yr old , he looks well ....x

[@knightyknight5399]

Marco Demena True Ting , its in our genes bro ...x

[@TerryCrodgedy]

He does loadsa tai chi , maybe that’s the secret?

[@MrResearcher122]

@Jacqueline Knight He's a vegan. That might be the reason. He lived next door to me in the 80s, up in Highbury Barn area of North London. I used to be a cheeky kid , and used to ask him for a splif all the time. He was a very nice person even in those days.

[@dia.6213]

He's a vegan

[@smackedinthejaw]

True. He does NOT show his 60 years of age, either in looks or any lack of energy. He evens mentions walking away from a street fight where he could have "put the guy down". I am not a vegan, but do not smoke, drink alcohol, use drugs. I try to watch the diet as well.

[@inakshiabeywardana5605]

❤ to see a principled,true, rational, artistic soul / Philosopher. The legacy you left behind us is the everlasting truth. Even your manner, nature voice out your unshaken principles.RIP Sir.

[@jw6806]

Benjamin a total inspiration.

[@carlcassidy185]

disgusting treatment of the Windrush, and others. TORIES OUT

[@louise-yo7kz]

Yes!🤜🏾

[@antoasap8644]

Very few things keep my attention is discussing contemporary affairs this video was realy imformative. Great guy and human being in all we are part ofbthe human family.

[@johnrambo7072]

so nice to see an interview where the interviewer lets the other man speak

[@markturpin5667]

Benjamin is a true human being.

[@johnsomebody1753]

On Anarchism, he may appreciate this if he discovers it one day : From the Greek, "An", meaning without, and, "Archos", rulers or rulership. That DOES NOT MEAN, being without rules, as EVERYONE who co-operates, shares beliefs on what is acceptable behaviour. But having rules DOES NOT MEAN, being ruled over.

[@ghug6764]

Thank you Benjamin, One Love brother

[@Sotangy247]

I remember Benjamin when he lived in East London in a housing Co- Op, and his mate John. Lovely guy .. spoken to him many times

[@AdventureSam]

What a legend 🔥🔥🤯🤯🤯📚📚📚

[@MrNdldesign]

Legend. Up The Villa Benjamin, your poetry is as beautiful as the club we support.

[@VemiX1000]

As one of the last generations of Yugoslavs (Sarajevo, Bosnia) as well as a proud Socialist/Communist I understand this man completely. By the way, people are still running from the Balkans for their lives (for better ones).

[@bortroad5740]

Who knows He managed to tap into ancient wisdom. If only we listened and engaged. May the almighty grant you peace

[@SilkyBadger]

19:37 Perfectly put, and again at 23:24 the faith in other people is the only religion I apply to.

[@shaolindreams]

Benjamin Zephaniah came to my school to show us some of his poetry.. this is over 30 years ago! and he looks the same! lol

[@toni4729]

It really is nice that things have changed.

[@sazzieA1]

A giant. Rest well King ( in every aspect of the word). 😢

[@drhintjens4915]

I saw Benjamin saying that poem at 24-25 "fight them not me" at the Edinburgh Festival about 40 years ago! It must have been in 1979 or 1980. "I don't like Miss Thatcher, I don't like that girl" was another one, and I will spare you the next lines! But I love your work and this interview is fantastic.

[@sylviabaxter265]

Thatcher best PM ever even better than Churchill. This man was a racist glad he has gone 😊

[@nikbarr1721]

love this thank you

[@thelamhensemble483]

Interesting discussion

[@Madrefukka]

A Great Guy.

[@nonowner3400]

Bless up BZ 😊🌸👍🏽

[@blackenedfirmament]

What a guy! and a vegan!

[@danobrien9925]

Brilliant guy, love him

[@reckingconquest]

Great interview

[@andrewryan7107]

I love this man.

[@sahztube]

Benjamin we ❤ you x

[@dzlad3281]

seems like a real nice bloke !

[@Knapweed]

Interesting guy and a good interview.

[@rolybling]

Great interview, Benjamin speaks a lot of sense, we are just pawns in the game of capitalism, the rights we have are GIVEN, we need to start taking them.

[@HappyDragneels_page]

hmmm, if a guy said the sky was blue would you hail him as a sense speaking genius too? this guys just a hippie who thinks he knows how to achieve world peace, poeple like him seem to have too much faith in humanity and forget about its infinite greed and lust for power. there will always be 10 people willing to stab and rob and con you for every benjamin out there.

[@HappyDragneels_page]

"the rights we have are GIVEN, we need to start taking them" have you ever heard someone sound so entitled?

[@midomarvin8793]

Cooool man. Touch it 🤜🏼🤛🏾. Rest easy King.

[@Philsy1845]

Very entertaining a very good interview. The dawning of positive thought was well told realising he was going nowhere made up his mind to have a go at his dream and made it!

[@carlbrown2538]

Amazing guy..

[@Fintan33]

he's a great man/poet and sensitive which is what is needed in man these days, enough macho ego's out there.

[@Fintan33]

nice one Jill :)

[@chicotthejester9341]

No person who styles themselves as an anarchist is worth listening to. It is an unworkable system and those who adhere to it demonstrate either a lack of intellect or a refusal to accept reality.

[@Fintan33]

I listened to his story, i don't understand what your point is ? What is a Rasta fagin ? I think you mean Rastafari darling

[@ChandrinKatuwawala]

Absolutely amazing human being

[@eliakimjosephsophia4542]

Benjamin Zephaniah is a really interesting guy.

[@tonguelessghostofsin]

Inspiring

[@Fredmayve]

Amazing interview

[@kojomensah7474]

You are so damn right

[@rayglover8697]

WOW - what a visionary - a truely great man - RIP Big Man . Massive irony that Ben moved to a village in Lincolnshire - I know the village(my wife was born there) - I am a white South Londoner that has been visiting sleepy Lincolnshire for 45 years - one day I tried to buy the Guardian Newspaper in a local shop - they never even heard of it ! I have always lived in a true Blue areas(like here my Hampshire village) - as right wing naive and racists as our local Hampshire people are nothing compares to Lincolnshire - thick as 2 short planks.

[@NextSound170]

Indeed the Sunshine African. 👊🏾

[@adamreekie8110]

Love this geezer.

[@theredapple3402]

The interviewer keeps confusing anarchism with lawlessness. This is ridiculous, even if you take the literal definition, anarchy only refers to positions of authority, not the rules themselves.

[@rupertcordeux6479]

Such a quiet man. It is true that empty vessels make the most noise. To my shame, I knew almost nothing about Benjamin Zephaniah until his death.

[@Ishijah1]

We all have right to live in world is ideal and fit for own purposes not for governments

[@HandsomeNamed]

Notions of equality and everyone being equal is a very artificial concept that necessarily needs to be maintained by a government. If there was no central authority enforcing these unnatural ideas, our world would devolve into natural heirarchies dominated by the most powerful. It's certainly the case that power is not even distributed right now. But if you think tearing down the system will level us all out, you are very sorely mistaken. It can only be WORSE, not better.

[@simeonbanner6204]

Proud he's from Brum. It's still pretty down to earth here. People keep it real I think.

[@HappyDragneels_page]

brummies are just too stupid to invent lies

[@marcusmaher-triskellionfil5158]

Great guy, simple as that.

[@alflurin]

I think the word Anarchy has been used and abused and I don't think people really know what it means. I does not mean caos, not at all. I've been tagged as a social anarchist most of my life and honestly don't understand what it means. My late father did give me some books back I in my late teens but I only read a couple of them. The political compass seems to agree. Talking of racism and xenophobia. Although my father had a significant amount of North African and could pass as one, I'm boringly white, hazel eyes. brown hair, as average as any other bloke. Thanks to my parents, I have double nationality, Swiss and Portuguese and there's an interesting phenomenon when you born with two nationalities, in the eyes of most Swiss, especially in my home kanton, I'm Portuguese. I've got harassed by Portuguese neonazis..... in Switzerland. I was also called "Judden" by passing cars and at first, it didn't quite fell into place until I realized they thought I was Jewish. I was shocked they felt so at ease to just harass me like that. In the francophone part of Switzerland, I'm better received. And back in Portugal, It's alright, I'm the extravagant Swiss. And for ages, up to my 27th birthday, people would ask the very annoying and stupid question: "Which one do you like more, Switzerland or Portugal?". I usually ask back "Which one do you love more, you father or your mother?" and it's exactly what I feel towards my nationalities. I am a full fledged Swiss and I'm also a full fledged Portuguese. Not half-breed like my Swiss grandfather said once to me. Right now, the nation I would choose as my own would be Ireland. It is the only place on Earth that I have visited and felt completely at home.

[@GreenOrchid9]

Give people responsibility🕯