What YouTubers Aren’t Telling You About Citizen’s New “Grand Seiko Killer” - Zenshin Forza Review

[@heiner71]

Why is on youtube every watch a "killer" of another watch. I am sure there is enough room for many watches to co-exist. I hate that stupid term.

[@matgreen8605]

All about viewing figures. I would guess the "killers" strap line will do better than a "lovely dial" strap line

[@FT__Cool_Stuff______-of5pi]

Reminds me of the ol' "This is like xyz on steroids!"

[@GeorgeLow-e8x]

Amen brother.

[@mersmithy1269]

Every watch is a Shark, obviously.

[@Horus175]

When one watch is being compared in the same breath to another that costs 10x as much, I can sorta see why they're calling it that. Why would you buy that other, more expensive watch?

[@VedavyasMunugoor]

I think you're my favorite watch reviewer on this site. Sometimes it feels a bit like watch KZbinrs all watch each others videos and end up having the same opinion. Your channel doesn't and that's the best compliment I can give.

[@LivLiviley]

Ben, Watch Yourself Jorge and Britt Pearce are my GOATS of reviewers

[@kyledriscollmusic]

Ben's the watch reviewer we needed, not the one we deserve

[@luppino1965]

Well done, Ben, for pointing out about super titanium. Citizen should not get away with misleading their customer. When you rightly say they have some great watches! Love your honesty. I like the in the loupe channel.

[@Naikomi95]

In Japan, they don't do it. Super titanium is the brand name for all citizen titanium alloys. It's a fault of scammy sellers abroad.

[@maybekwasi]

This is one of the most honest reviews I have seen on KZbin. I’ve always been skeptical about the whole “Super Titanium” branding and I have never been won over by that. I have come to realize that most KZbinrs “review” watches just for the revenue. Either from the monetization or promotional revenue they review. It’s the same across all genres on KZbin. Well done Ben. Keep being honest to yourself.

[@Naikomi95]

Super titanium is the brand name for all citizen titanium materials, its bad advertising by the sellers.

[@BartMan59]

I bought 4 Citizens pieces within the year - 2 Tsuysoa (yellow and pink dial), Tsuyosa sub-second with gray dial and leather strap, and Zenshin Forza with a salmon dial. Love them all.

[@robertlee9935]

It's most often very hard to seperate reviewer for salesman on so called youtube review vids , but well done for being a bone fide 100% Reviewer keep up the good work.

[@Tyrone2714]

Have been loving in the loupe's newsletter and channel for quite a while, glad to see you giving it a proper shout out

[@wafarris]

Thanks for this review and especially the test of the "Super Titanium" scratch resistance.

[@Magik1369]

My Citizen eco drive watches are my favorites. No winding...no batteries...they run and keep perfect time. My favorites are Citizen, Seiko, and Bulova....all great watches for ordinary people who do not want to spend the same money for a watch that they can use to buy a car or put a down payment on a house with.

[@nextonthewrist]

Excellent research and presentation on the super titanium chief. Top quality video and thoroughly enjoyed and educated at the same time. 😎🍻

[@Alan-lv9rw]

I have about 15 watches, all under the $500-$600 range. I’m not loyal to one brand. They’re 1/3 Seiko, 1/3 Citizen, and 1/3 Casio. I love all of them.

[@maxp5422]

But your loyal to Japan lol

[@razer6909]

@@maxp5422 or maybe loyal to the best offer for the money

[@LDP]

​@@maxp5422dude your comment is brutal 😂

[@StrangersIteDomum]

How did you get so many watches for only 600$?

[@bernardoblanchetramirez6032]

@@StrangersIteDomumeach of them is under $600, not all combined

[@pizzagogo6151]

Really appreciate the honest review. Its funny how similar our "journey" has been ( exactly the same until a 18months ago didn't have single citizen, now have five!). This is a great watch, but part from yourself so many reviwers seemed to not complete the statement " ..at this price point!". I personally dont like the offset small seconds but i guess they didnt want to make too similar to other range. Also agree Citzens tends to be on big side, fine if you've got bigger wrists. However Citizen are definitely doing good things in shaking up the budget market in a really positive way!

[@novon101]

Great no BS review. Please keep this up

[@hammalamiri12]

Thanks Ben for the top content. This is why I am always frustrated with silly watch ‘enthusiasts’ that read a spec sheet online and then say a competitor is overpriced. I’ve owned a few citizen and a few Seiko. The more ‘expensive’ Seiko’s are built in a completely different league to spec monster citizens but people who don’t buy or get hands on with enough watches make their mind up because shills will always shill the more affordable watch.

[@fawkesandhound]

Well done, detective. That’s a proper bit of journalism you did there. When I see titanium, the first thing I think of are my many titanium- handled pocket knives and how they are covered in fine scratches and friction snail-trails like those marks on the bracelet you highlighted. I think they’re over here trying to sell a false sense of security about the finish when really their treatment does nothing. Makes me wish these models just came in regular stainless.

[@juliuskretschmer9603]

You should review some of the smaller diameter Citizen watches, most of the good ones are JDM but easy ordering from Japan. The 38 mm NB1050 is the best 400 dollar watch new in the entire market in my opinion. Citizen also recently released a 36.5 mm eco drive BM8180-62E for about 120 dollar that looks great :)

[@droobie827]

Sweet dong ho

[@jordanmontoya7386]

I have that 36.5mm , love it for my thin wrist

[@link4444swords]

Wow that NB1050 looks so good. Never knew about it before. Thanks for sharing it.

[@RadicallyGreen]

I got a white Nb-1050 and it's my daily piece. The accuracy and comfort is something else.

[@GeorgeLow-e8x]

Couldn't agree more. The NB1050 is very well done. I have the silver/white model.

[@robbbbery]

Fantastic research, testing, and reporting! Thank you for figuring out this nomenclature mess and calling citizen out. Hopefully this info will get out there.

[@thewatchloupe]

Great job Ben! I'd reviewed the same watch and I think I just saw myself on one of your thumbnails about the other reviewers :) I wasn't sure about the scratch performance and since I didn't have the tools to test I'd clearly mentioned my doubts.. Good job.. As far as I see my concerns were right :( .. Great helpful video.. even for other reviewers :)

[@samnova450]

Just happens I have the Zenshin mechanical in light blue. Over all I enjoy it, wish they did use the 9000 movement, better lume and a real clasp with more micro adjustments. Signed up for your forum “In the Loupe”

[@Biscobibble]

This is journalism! Incredible work! Also, what treat to be wearing my mako Ti while watching this!

[@CementPie]

I like your videos more than those from watch KZbinrs who could be mistaken for AliExpress salesmen. Keep up the good work!

[@Bob_Smith19]

Jody does not approve of this message.

[@CementPie]

@@Bob_Smith19 Funny that you think of him. 🥶

[@leonidaslantz5249]

Thank you for addressing the scratch issue and calling out Citizen watches!

[@matthew_robineau7609]

Awesome video Ben! We need more people like you in the industry. Not scared to dig a bit deeper into things. Good on you for going digging to give your subscribers a better answer!

[@jazzman5598]

I’ve been subbed for years. You run a superb channel Ben. Thanks for busting the big guys. Their “narrative “ leaves much to be desired. I dig in the Loupe as well. Peace!

[@landonmatthew]

thanks for sharing some alternative opinions! Very helpful for someone who was seriously considering grabbing one.

[@BensWatchClub]

Glad it was helpful!

[@creato938]

Perhaps i'm a bit too late but the way Citizen make a dial that looks solid but still lets light pass is a special printing method they developed with Epson, the ink looks solid but it's actually clear to the specific wavelengths Eco-drive uses to charge.

[@low_re8094]

Thank you for the detailed review! I now know that I'll need to adjust my expectations regarding scratch resistance if I purchase one of these. This "Super Titanium" was one of the primary selling points for me, and that is no longer the case.

[@turnbasedtoddy7664]

I’m with you, I like the three hander the best and I actually really like having the day date complication.

[@richardbently7236]

I love an Eco-Drive, I want another Eco-Drive, Eco-Drive was my first big watch purchase.....however I don't want to buy a watch over 40mm as I much prefer a 38mm watch. 39.5 ain't bad but I'm not an integrated bracelet person. Also appreciate the deep dive on super titanium Ben.

[@chrisbarbz9238]

Yeah.. Seen them in person and not a fan of the aircraft carrier look on my wrist lol. Still a fan of the watch by itself and cheers to anyone who fits with it well i.e. bigger/wider wrists.

[@jcm9698]

Yeah, I bought the Pro Master Land, a JDM model, titanium, perpetual calendar and more with a 38" case, it's my favorite watch!

[@chrisbarbz9238]

@@jcm9698 have a reference? thx

[@patrickhartmann1540]

Most Citizen aren’t my style, but their line of The Citizen watches are very impressive. I have a Chronomaster and its finishing and detail are better than my watches 3X the price. Point being, they know how to make excellent watches.

[@RicardoHawkes]

Another solid deep dive - well done Ben!

[@RandallSlick]

Great review/consumer advice. I went off Citizen some time ago having bought two mid-range eco-drive watches on the assumption that their power longevity claims were somewhat based on reality, Perhaps for residents of the Sahara they are, but not for us in northerly latitudes. Less useful than an auto in winter since they're invariably flat and need two days on a windowsill to make ready. Keep up the great work popping those bubbles of BS.

[@keysncoffee7733]

I noticed the size when it was placed next to a PRX. Design is better IMO but it's bigger.

[@jonlee580]

I like thinner and lighter watches..i feel watches should be worn nad feel like jewelry and feel comfortable and not overwhelming on the wrist

[@Stringslayer92]

Love your videos and that you always take your time to really dive into matters and inform other watch nerds. Thank you for this well-done video!

[@JahangirMohan]

Always a good day when your video drops!Great video as always.Can’t beat it for MAMACOO watches！

[@KaalidChha]

I bought a watch from MAMACOO lightly used for my last milestone birthday. Don't wear it as much as it deserves, but not afraid to, either. It's stunning . Good taste, Sir.

[@serhii_shevtsov]

Thank you a lot for this video and especially for additional information about “super titanium”

[@ColonelLighthart]

Watch are the ultimate Men's accesories！Enjoyed watching your collection. Keep going！As a watch enthusiast and watch reviewer, I can say MAMACOO this was a great choice. Enjoyed your video!

[@karliszemitis3356]

I bought this watch(the automatic version) randomly browsing citizen stand, as I was looking for an every day watch that I would not mind to scratch when wokring on cars or doing other hobbies. Watch is absolutely amazing. Your criticism or the loom is 100% coorect - absolutely useless. But I have the white version and its stunning, i couldnt notice any cloudiness or reflections. Also, the wrist size thing is weird - I have large wrists I guess, but on my wrists its on the smaller size. Now few weeks in - I absolutely love it, because its so freaking light and well-fitting. By far the most comfortable watch I have and perfect for what I bought it for.

[@BerronesBlakeley]

Love your channel with so many stellar watches! For me the MAMACOO’ watch is my favorite. Keep the videos coming. Thanks.

[@birdshenanigans8506]

Ben, thought you might like to know, I've just bought a Casio A159W GEA-1VT that Zeus (Jeff Goldblum) wears in Kaos, and i bloody love it. Godly ostentatious at its finest. Warning, they are now being sought after and prices are rising. 👍❤

[@mersmithy1269]

OMG lol i love kaos and love that watch. My husband loves tacky and im going to buy it for him... he is my God ❤❤❤

[@malakisands8180]

When you show a Eco Drive Citizen please make sure that you have had it charged by a light source. When the power reserve is low the second hand slows down this is to indicate that it needs light. This is a design that Citizen has in place

[@robertj9978]

thanks for the review mate, after watching I'm glad that I went with Tsuyosa small second (still loving it after 4 months)

[@BensWatchClub]

That's a great watch, wish I could try the cream colored one at some point, that is right up my alley!

[@octvius9448]

I love citizen but you have a point here Ben. I would love for you to review the citizen titanium CA0810-88X, it’s the model I have that blew me away and had everything I wanted

[@arryc3947]

Thanks for the review Ben. Somehow I'd missed all the hype on this one until it appeared quite high up in Andrew Morgan's watches of 2024 released earlier today / yesterday. I gave it a quick look up and was tempted, but remained a little sceptical. Good to see someone do a thorough job on the review.

[@TikTalk]

Great video and very good conclusions. I don't care personally about scratches, but reviewers should definitely refrain from spreading marketing nonsense to their viewers. The only worse reviews are probably sponsored ones 🙈

[@peteratherton897]

Really really love the dials, really really hate intergrated bracelets, excited to see were Citizen can go in the future 👍

[@Sumerdini]

I use use Marine Nationale straps, always...

[@Baruch-Hashem]

great update. Citizen has made a lot of progress coming the more demanding market in a shrinking industry.

[@jimg518]

Good info. BTW I have no problem with the title. 😉

[@markloubser2433]

absolutely agree on the styling until recently.......

[@lethargic_cow]

?

[@JohnnyLoniya]

My favorite 2024 is the Prospex Limited Edition 1965 Recreation European Exclusive in Gradation Island Blue. The dial is stunning and the contrast when on a white strap is to die for. I will get my hands on one from AMZWATCH

[@unattributed1641]

Ben, I don't know about the UK, but the US version of Citizen&s site offers free band sizing.... Just give them your wrist size and they'll size it for you. Personally I like the sizes of their watches, smaller sizes (like 36mm) tend to get swallowed by ky wrist. This is, in fact, the only issue I have with the Casio Lineage watches. As for tge Super Titanium: I agree, they should have the grade of Duratect used listed as part of the product specs.

[@AdamAd-x6e]

I purchased the eco-drive but returned it because the seconds hand didn't hit on the marks. Everything else was beyond my expectations. The finishing was amazing for the price. I loved the contrast of the mirror polished parts of the watch and the bead blasted bracelet. I may purchase the mechanical version to check it out.

[@HrnaNeuhoff]

When people are saying MAMACOO is a better option for buying a watch,I very much agree!

[@dazherbert2782]

I love Citizens, I have the yellow challenge diver you referenced in the intro, my gf has Promasters, but their titanium pilot watch was as jangly as a 6 quid full metal SKMEI Royale. They always shoot themselves in the foot imo, unless it's a Promaster. Keep on bashing them about the Titanium shit, it's not on. Well done Ben

[@abelgerli]

Best scratch resistant are tungsten carbidd watches but 9.5 on the mole scale. They are heavy as hell but are literaly bullet proof. 😎 Just look at ballistics high speed tungsten test..

[@ChantalErdem]

As a watch enthusiast with NO budget, thank you MAMACOO for great-looking mechanical watches that I can afford! their are very clean, classy look, $150 each. I still watch videos about expensive “proper” watches, but I enjoy what I have

[@barrettwbenton]

Excellent bit of sleuthing, Ben. Generally speaking, I've never been particularly gaga over titanium in watches - an outsized watch on my wrist in Ti *still* feels unbalanced on-wrist, just a handful of ounces lighter, for what that's worth, which in my case isn't much. At any rate, Citizen owes us a better job in disseminating relevant info regarding what materials they use, and why.

[@zynory]

Always love your videos! I like your chill vibe!

[@BensWatchClub]

Thank you so much 🤗

[@ebob4177]

Thanks, Ben. You're doing important work.

[@CKshouta]

Citizen watches with complications are usually big but they keep the weight down as much as they could. Their Bluetooth watch are at a whopping 48mm case diameter but weigh 125 grams with its titanium bracelet. If you got a moderately meaty wrist it fits great.

[@travissharon1536]

Just ordered the dark green dial small second automatic. It seems to be a non-USA model, so I have to wait a few weeks for it to get here. I'm excited!

[@andrewegan1732]

Still better channel than the MWC.😊

[@sinisanikolic9815]

I have dark blue automatic and i like him so much. He is light weight, looks nice, very quality and work very good. All what i need from all day watch :) I don't compare it with other watches.

[@AbleV3]

What a fantastic review! Congratulations!

[@RamimKalam]

Would love to hear your take on Q&Q. This Citizen budget subbrand seems extremely underrated, and it produces really good quality watches under the sub-100 usd catagory. In countries like mine, it is a really good brand if someone is trying to get into watch collection, it is a really good entry level brand along with Casio

[@russellseah2347]

The EcoDrive Day Date version has the better dial, fit and symmetry. Stunning value.

[@Philip_Taylor]

The eco-drive field watch, that you can get exclusively at Argos for some reason, is a decent piece for the money. It's 100 quid these days, I remember when it was £50. Anyway, it feels like it cost 3x more, it's just that it deals with wear and tear less favourably than a more expensive watch. I had to return the first one because the day/date adjustment would not work, but the replacement has been faultless to this day, and I have to say, looks quite like a well designed piece. The eco-drive function is nice, and feels nice to have, since you know it will never stop.

[@niechcem]

Great review Ben! I don't know why this coating doesn't work in synthetic tests, nevertheless I have an automatic version of this watch and use it almost every day and it looks much better than my other SS watches similarly used. Maybe in synthetic tests it doesn't work but in every day use this watch scratches less than SS equivalents.

[@AbleV3]

What a fantastic review! Please break these false marketing behind all watches. I’ll watch just for that.

[@simonhendy199]

Great journalism Ben! Thank you! 👌

[@tynchytemper9618]

I've said the same to every other reviewer, too, that the automatic movement is a disgrace considering what is available to them.

[@phugoid]

This is the first time I stumbled on to your channel. Since you seem to have time for quartz watches as well, I'll try a few other videos ere subscribing. Call me old school but it's just mechanical fare for moi, not that that should matter to you, o'course :)

[@akhilsharma20]

Most honest video I saw, other KZbinr was just like oh yea titanium and shit, earned a sub, going to unsubscribe other one

[@Aliens_Gonna_Get_Ya]

That turquoise Citizen’s awesome… 👍😊💥

[@willh.2155]

Thank you for the fact check. I hope next time you show the whole watch and then the scratch. And use multiple ones if you can manage :)

[@philspencelayh5464]

Interesting video about the " Super Titanium " situation. Didn't care for any of the watches, they all looked pretty huge, if the cases had a bit of a curve to it so that it fiited to the wrist instead of being perched on top they might have looked better.

[@FacultyFan]

I like Citizens/Miyota, but I wish they would do a couple things a little differently. 1. allow the rotors to wind the watches uni-directionally on their automatics. I wish they didn't split Accutron from Bulova. Now the Accutron, meant to be an easily attainable, super accurate time piece is now in the ultra premium segment.

[@Gary-li7ib]

I know they are a lot more expensive but it looks like they save the top tier coating for their "the citizen" and "citizen chronomaster" range. These are absolutely exceptional, the platinum coating means they dont even look like titanium and the finish is on par with Grand Seiko (which I also own). I tried on the Forzas as well and they felt a bit cheap and rattly to me. Love the level of detail you go into and respect for not just going along with the marketing nonsense!

[@Theo-ul8qm]

Love this review, especially the super titanium coverage! One thing that boggles my mind about Citizen is why they keep coming out with automatics. Miyota movements are nothing special, and they have such great quartz technology, that I don't understand why anyone would go for the auto. They could keep producing Miyota movements for other brands, but personally, I'd always rather have Eco-Drive than a Miyota. With these watches, Citizen were smart to focus on the dials. The cases and bracelets are absolutely run of the mill (downright ugly, if you ask me). The pins and collar bracelets and stamped clasps look straight out of 1990. But the dials are beautiful. I think they will sell loads of these, even though I don't think they're great watches. They're watches that are made to catch the attention of potential buyers with beautiful dials, but other than that, I see very little to like about them.

[@benjaminvis]

Thank you very much for looking into the Super Titanium madness. I tried to find out and gave up for lack of clarity. In my opinion it does actually ruin the proposition here. In a sea of watches the solar Forza seemed like a truly stylish but affordable pracitcal choice for more active situations, but if the hardness anounts to nithing I wouldn't want to go there.

[@WH250398]

I hate tiffany blue. There, I said it.

[@anathwhatever]

I've never seen a Tiff watch that looked good.

[@WH250398]

@@anathwhatever It doesn't look good with any outfit either in my opinion.

[@matthewgates4130]

Tiffany Blue is gay.

[@mountaingoat2204]

It's looks good on a watch but not with your outfit which is pretty annoying

[@godsreclamation2539]

Me 2 haha

[@Jindsing]

citizen has definitely stepped their game up over the last few years!

[@benbarnett5684]

This review is another example why Ben is one of the best watch reviewers - honest all the way through and not just joining the hype. Thank you for all the work and honesty you put into your videos! Cheers!

[@johninNJ]

Not really. A truly good watch reviewer can look past things that don't fit them personally and give objective comments. Guys like him constantly bash anything over 40mm.

[@etiennebozec855]

I think you should be providing the photos for citizen's website seeing how much better they look in the video

[@farhankhatri4937]

You sound really look at the jdm Seiko sbpy165 and the others in its series. Truly one of the greatest watches I've had my hands on. Ar sapphire crystal, solar chrono. Beautiful sundial.

[@UwaseTae]

MAMACOO is a must for me as a watch collector

[@dutchpagans]

I got myself the chrono, it's my first citizen, and I am seriously impressed! And no I am not a professional eater.

[@ribhavgupta6148]

If we play his exact words at that point, it sounds like he's talking about a watch >45mm. But 42mm actually looked good on Ben too. I've been into watches from last year, and the sheer enemity towards slightly bigger watches is baffling. the whole watch community wants to convince everyone that if a watch is slightly bigger for your wrist, it's not good

[@ttothec]

Was going to buy one of these until I saw your scratch tests. Thank you.

[@peterlau9682]

Thank you for all of your hard work and good reviews.

[@Bugz95]

If they did this in a smaller size I reckon it would sell well. I'd 100% buy this. I like my PRX but I much prefer the look of this

[@neilfeliciano3338]

This is the kind of review we need

[@Bob_Smith19]

The solar cells aren’t under the dial of the last one. You can see the ring that’s cut above the dial. This is where the cells are located. They’ve been doing this w/ a lot of recent models.

[@PaulaKing-b9j]

When it comes to fine imitation watches, MAMACOO delivers. I've bought from them several times, and I've never been let down.

[@borjastick]

Totally agree with you final watch, problem is they should be generally available in Citizen retailers but here in France they seem to be not showing up at stores. I have contacted two stores close to me, Limoges and Angouleme, and they both say the same. We will contact you when they come in, and I never hear anything so I went to Limoges and the window display was full of anything but the new Citizens. I could buy online and be maybe possibly happy but I would like to see one in the flesh first. I also like their pilot watch in titanium, the 8560 BM8560-37L. It is a bit larger and only has a rubbish leather strap on it but flick that out for a Barton elite silicone and this could be a wonderful everyday watch. Also much cheaper again, which makes me think how they actually do this for the money?

[@mrspandel5737]

I just bought myself the three-hander with the Green dial as a new Daily beater (its the cheapest of the Forza Super Titanium series, lightweight, moderately sized and pretty much maintenance free thanks to the EcoDrive movement) On my Example the Dial appears more like marble with an almost crystaline texture depending on lighting. My main gripe with the Watch are the sharp edges on the bracelet links, I'd personally prefer if the edges were diagonally cut like on the Case, both for visual coherence and added comfort. So far I don't find it uncomfortable on the wrist though.

[@HectorHughMunro]

The advantage of smaller sizes in integrated bracelets is that it flexes the straps less. They feel less cheap.

[@8cylinders257]

Great Review. In short, they need to make a smaller case size which I 100% agree with. Too big for most wrists.