La Sportiva Genius Review: Is "No Edge" the FUTURE of climbing shoes?

[@d3RrRp]

For what it’s worth they are my favorite shoes. Find them to abuse my toes much less than other aggressive shoes I have worn. Also there is a whole range of movements which just make more sense in no edge shoes, everything which involves rolling your foot to reposition on a hold or get more reach, just is awkward in edged shoes. I agree though that these kind of suck for micro edges, but they make up by being awesome on slopey small holds and what at least for me is the best heel I have tried in any shoe. What I do have to say is that the shape of your foot is probably what will ultimately determine if you love or absolutely hate these shoes, I have a very ‘square’ foot and this shoe allows my big toe to get up into the front of the shoe without annihilating my other toes. Someone with a lower volume or sloppier toe profile will probably have to have their big toe absolutely jammed into the front of the shoe to get a good fit. As far as the rubber goes, I find grip 2 to perform better than other rubbers on heavily textured surfaces, but extremely poorly on slick surfaces, so if your gym has not bought new hold in a decade or your local crag is some glassy smooth stone these shoes will guarantee you have a bad day. If on the other hand you are climbing on fresh volumes in a gym or on very gritty sandstone or course granite you might like this rubber.

[@BeorOng]

Great to hear from someone whos climbed in a pair, i do agree its definitely about the shape of your foot. I think thats with any pair of shoe and great to know youve found a pair that fit your feet so well. For me personally i just havent found it preferable for a lot of the types of climbs around my area so thats not really something id even considered but thats a really good point. I might find a use for it for a particular climb but it feels so specialized at that point. Really appreciate the comment, its given me a different perspective on the shoes. Thanks for watching dude

[@MrVanhoden]

@@BeorOng hey I owned a pair of geniuses too and have now switched to the new hiangles after owning the scarpa instinct vsr, as I'm a little heavy for my 1,73m of height even when being fit and needed more support/stiffness. Now I lost the genius because I was in a better place financially and got into a climbing shoe buying frenzy and wanted not only to try out laces but no edge as well but I then, like the bonobo I am, accidentally threw the shoe away when I sorted out all the shoe boxes. La sportiva had a size chart and while the Skwarmas are already more suitable for wider feet the genius is the shoe with the second widest last in la sportivas whole arsenal. When it comes to no edge I think you're getting it wrong. Not even in theory is it supposed to be better at edging, BUT ENGAGING YOUR HIP BETTER, making foot transitions smoother, as no edge changes the position of your feet and makes smooth climbing easier. I also realised that no edge has significant advantages when climbing outside on sandstone and the only time it edges better is when being there. When it comes to the heel I've never been hooking as good as I did with the genius, through the lacing system it was just sooooooo fucking tight and one time I even injured the back of my right leg because I was hooking so good, pulling so hard with my leg, it simply was amazing, other shoes may have slightly better shapes of heels but due to the shoes just fitting so tight and being laced the hook was amazing, at least for me and even though I really like the scarpa Instinct the heel hasn't been as good as it is in the genius. In the end I think the genius'es performance highly depends on the shape of your feet and while I really liked them, it was very annoying to always tie them again after a few boulders, especially before they broke in. Your ''scientific'' rubber test also just works better when the shoe is more down turned and is moreso testing that than the rubber, the genius slips because the downturn comes from the feet and therefore tension created in them, whilethat is different with the butoras.

[@BeorOng]

@@MrVanhoden I mean regarding "Not even in theory is it supposed to be better at edging": The patented No-Edge™ concept brings your foot closer to the rock for better edging performance, increased sensitivity and more homogeneous wear" Thats literally taken from la sportiva website. Regarding the heel, thats the advantage of laces, you can adjust the fit exactly how you like em, I still think the skwamas trump any heel ive felt in any shoe though. Regarding the "scientific testing" the science part was a joke, but its definitely more sticky than xsgrip2 based on composition with it being produced as a softer rubber, Im planning on proving that with REAL science next time by purchasing a friction meter, but the smallest piece of equipment I could find for it is gonna set me back 5 grand, so im just waiting for youtube to make me more money before I invest in that one.

[@LongBoy.0]

I have futuras, and they're the finest shoes I've ever climbed in. Similar to the genius except velcro basically

[@BeorOng]

Really wanted to buy a pair of futuras when I was looking at no edge shoes but was a lot harder to find down here in australia so I opted for the more expensive genius' lol

[@LongBoy.0]

@@BeorOng I'm wondering, what ARE your preferred gym bouldering shoes?

[@BeorOng]

@@LongBoy.0 my butora acro comps currently. My ideal shoe would have the heel cup and fit of the skwamas, the softness of the furias and trax or or neofuse rubber from evolv or butora.

[@BeorOng]

@@LongBoy.0 been looking at my old comments and Im gonna update these to evolv phantoms now =]

[@kermitklimbs7101]

Man so much hate for no-edge shoes. I have the Futura's and they may honestly be the best climbing shoes I've ever owned. I feel like the no-edge has not only improved my footwork but has also strengthened my feet and ankles. The rubber is also unmatched imo but I'm mostly pushing grades outside and don't do much "comp style bouldering." Either way great video but gotta stand up for the no-edge community haha

[@BeorOng]

Haha for sure my dude, completely open to the discussion. I love hearing other peoples opinions on what ever I say. I absolutely agree on the fact that I think the reason i prefer having softer rubber is i mostly climb indoor and havent really used my geniuses enough outdoors. But yeah absolutely call me out on my videos. I want both sides of the argument in the comments so people can see it to make their oen decisions

[@shurik_skalolaz]

Found these shoes to be my favourite their edging is worse than instict laces, but they are a perfect allrounder for the area I climb, which is either Breccia or radically Overhanging basalt. They provide me with a very good amount of friction on all the micro smears on the basalt, and feel significantly more comfortable than any edged shoe I have worn even though they are even smaller.

[@Digdigs2]

A few comments - Xs Grip is far more consistent than anything else out there, it grips well and you can feel when it's about to either release or deform under pressure. The supposedly grippier rubbers give limited warning as to where the edge of that envelope is, not allowing the climber time to adjust accordingly. The extra 'softness' also means (and this has been a problem since 5:10) these rubbers roll off crystals as the rubber deforms under pressure - never had a better rubber than Vibram. No edge - same thing on a macro scale, consistency and predicability in placement and less risk of a roll-off, plus they provide the same performance for a longer period of the shoe's lifetime - basically from new all the way to total blow-out. I've climbed slab through wall to steep with no-edge and have never legitimately been able to blame the shoes, the edge (smedge), smear and grab with equal facility and with a natural sensitivity that makes them great onsight shoes - if I know a thin wall route super well (worked to death, ready for the redpoint) I might consider something with an actual edge to it. RE: abuse to feet... I dunno, they, the Maverink and the Futuras are the most comfortable shoes I own... Maverinks are my go-to training shoe, suuuper comfy! I suspect that is more to do with foot shape/personal preference than the no-edge itself.

[@BeorOng]

haha I knew I was going to go against the grain on this one. I just cant seem to personally get into them. I just feel so much more comfortable on the softer stuff. Your points 100% make sense but I dunno... I think im just weird

[@ChrisHaileyTrainHardDiveEasy]

Some great points there dude, I used to climb these and the futura's but found they were only really good indoors and that I would go through the no edge rubber on the toe real fast... Its a nae from me too 🤙 thanks for sharing this review, really well put together and concise subbed 😃

[@pierocus3261]

I'm a futura owner and I have contrasting thoughts. They should be really good on overhanging stuff but as a matter of fact I find them most useful on slabby/vertical stuff. I'm from north east Italy and I only climb on pretty slippery limestone so that's where I saw they make a big difference. On overhangs they really stand put for the really precise heel but I'm not really able to get power through them (maybe im just a weak bastard lol). A big issue with these super soft compounds is obviously the lasting of the shoe. It turned out, after I resoled them the first time, I only use futura's to onsight on my limit grade and use Scarpa's Boostic and Instinct laces for everything else.

[@BryceU]

I'm with you. I think they look rad, and are cool in concept. I found them to be sensitive and excellent for outdoor granite climbing. But at the end of the day I never fell in love with them. I too much prefer the Skwama which is about as good as it gets for an aggressive shoe. I also love the Otaki when I need more edging power.

[@BeorOng]

I find it too sensitive, its the same with my furia airs and now my hi-angle pros, the hi-angles actually fit like an absolute glove but the sensitivity might put me off... ill have to put them through the ringer to give a proper review though but currently stuck in lock down here in Melbourne =[

[@mexicanprizefighter]

If you're primarily climbing on plastic, I can see why don't prefer them. However on real rock where friction and foot hold shapes are dynamically changing even within a single pitch or boulder problem, I find the one size fits all no edge toe shape to be superior to any other shoe I've used in over 20 years of climbing.

[@BeorOng]

Always love the discussion and thanks for chiming in my dude, and you are 100% right deffs climbing more on plastic than real rock, best crag for us to climb down here is a 4 hour drive away so we make the trip when we can. Im really trying to love these shoes but everyone just has that fave shoe theyre used to. Thanks for watching again =]

[@mexicanprizefighter]

@@BeorOng I think it's important to have dissenting reviews like this when it comes to gear you love. I climbed in my Geniuses once in the gym and didn't prefer them. The often uniform shape of foot holds and texture on plastic made them feel like mini roller blades. However, at least on limestone where the footholds can rapidly change from smedges to smears and edges on incut and 3D features, there's something about the no edge tech that allows it to adapt to almost any shape and demand of a foot hold. In over 2 decades of climbing, I often didn't prefer to project in my conventional edged shoes until they were broken in and the factory 90 degree edge was gone and had slightly rounded. For me, the Genius hits that sweet spot perfectly but with A+ sensitivity. I switch from Testas to Solutions to Geniuses but have gone to my Geniuses nearly 100% when it's close down time on a proj.

[@BeorOng]

@@mexicanprizefighter i think thats another factor to consider as well, for us down here its all sandstone so grip hasnt ever been an issue outside where indoors i just despise xsgrip2. Ive found for myself, more use for a sharper more precise edge on my projects cause generally all i have to stand on are like 1mm edges vs rounded pockets so probabably another reason ive prefered more of my other conventional shoes

[@UnwantedCommentary]

Those are some weird ass shoes

[@BeorOng]

clown shoes, wouldnt buy again =P

[@GordonRamsMe]

But I like Edging😔

[@georgebaldwin5456]

At $200 plus per pair, the idea of spending money to TRY a new concept is OVER. I'd rather spend my money on a pair of Miura VSs, Solution Comps, Katana Laces, Skwamas, Evolve Phantoms, Evolve Shaman Pros, Uparallel Flagships. FWIW: I have actually BOUGHT every one of the aforementioned alternatives and love all of them except the Skwamas..

[@idoido9590]

Great vid and good points! Ive been climbing the futuras for about 12 months now, and im in love hahaha. I feel like after you strengthen your toes you can really make the best out of them. They are the best shoes i ever used for slab and vertical walls, they are alright on caves ect. But wouldnt be my first choise. I have been using them outdoors and indoors, and contrary to what I have been hearing, I feel like they are much better outdoors . What I love: 1.the sensitivity 2.the heel 3.the absolutely amazing edging ability 4.the fit for my foot personally I always tell my friend "no edge-best edge" haha. But it always comes down to personal fit and climbing style, so I can understand where you are coming from.

[@thesii213]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the Evolv Oracle. The rubber should be similar in durometer to the Butora's.

[@BeorOng]

this seems to have slipped through the cracks, sorry dude -- My brother bought a pair of oracles and tried them on, theres a little "love bump" as they call it on the toe that my brother likes I personally dont (probably one of those thinsg that you need to to get used to). Rubber is sticky its really nice actually so I'd rate it except for that toe part but thats personal preference

[@thesii213]

@@BeorOng I think said bump (and I hate the name) is just there to preserve the downturn over time. No idea if it's more effective at doing so than other technologies.

[@BeorOng]

@@thesii213 im sure you get used to it but for me its like having a rock in your shoe so it feels more annoying than anything lol

[@theemptyset715]

Bro the intro had me rolling

[@BomberBeta]

Really good review. I demoed a pair of these a while back I didn't like them very much. I agree with the point about them feeling super comfortable when you put them on but other than that I'm not a fan. I remember the red strip of rubber on the heel being really slick? Did you find that to be true as well?

[@BeorOng]

hey man, thanks for watching. I havent really found the heel to be too much of an issue, it has a bit of give in that the heel tends to slide a bit down when im cranking on a pretty gnarly heel hook. Its not by a lot but it does make me uncomfortable because it feels like it could just pop off. Honestly if it came down to to a la sportiva shoe the one shoe I would buy over and over again would be the skwamas

[@jeroenmeesters6852]

Mabye a bit late but i really love the genius shoes i climb on them for like almost a year now they are painfull on long routes but i can deal with that and i a way they just work for me

[@BeorOng]

Ah ppl are always looking for more info so late is better than never, but honestly i agree i actually dont mind them for a few routes but it just gets painful over time, and thats why i just cant find the love for em

[@ondrejrozec3741]

Give a mediocre boulderer an amazing tool. Bam a genius slander video. So funny :D

[@georgebaldwin5456]

Bet he can outclimb you any day of the week. Empty barrels make the most noise.

[@stefan.h.6888]

This slip test is definitely a great idea but try to clean the soles right before the test and the sportiva has more downturn so it has not even the same overlay as the competitor.

[@BeorOng]

Honestly i wouls love to do this more scientifically if I had resources, this was more like a crude..."see what I mean" thing but 100% get where youre coming from cause I agree

[@col]

That hook at the beginning was clutch.. this review was so clean man! You still using the GH5?

[@BeorOng]

thanks man and yeah, only cause im still waiting on the unicorn of an A7S iii, might actually just outright get that canon R5 depending on how that looks. Sony are just screwing themselves over by not releasing it

[@col]

@@BeorOng I agree. I recently got the eos r for autofocus on the golf stuff and the R5 looks good. I don't understand wtf sony is waiting for honestly. Hopefully the R5 isn't too cripple hammered

[@maiahirvonen3967]

what were he white shoes you compared with in the sliding test? I didn't catch the style.

[@BeorOng]

Butora acro comps

[@RossPotts]

As far as tying is concerned, if you’re double-knotting, you’re doing it wrong. I bet when you do your first knot it finishes more north/south right? If you just go the OPPOSITE WAY round the loops (kind of reversing), the loops will finish East/west and will keep themselves tightened. I have a pair of BD Momentum’s I use for long sessions, and am breaking in a pair of madrock sharks for bouldering. Those things slip on like butter and when I’m done, they stick like burnt potatoes on a pan, LOL!

[@BeorOng]

Haha thanks foe the tip, but i think you made me more hungry haha

[@RossPotts]

@@BeorOng ha!

[@edenrussell8365]

Great guide for buying shoes

[@BeorOng]

haha thats what im hoping this channel becomes

[@NoahWizard]

when you talk about the price, "two hundred eighty nine dollar price tag," is that in Australian dollars?

[@BeorOng]

Yeah aussie money lol, if that was usd id be poor in no time lol

[@NoahWizard]

@@BeorOng I think I remember you saying that when you were in America people couldn't place your accent and weren't understanding you-- if I didn't know you were Australian and that the Australian currency was the Australian dollar, I'd probably assume the prices you were saying were in US dollars so if you want to stupid-american-proof these you could throw some text on the screen $289 Aus or something. with all the degrees off the wall you've got some clear canvas space that would let you do graphics/text pretty cleanly

[@BeorOng]

@@NoahWizard that is true...will do for future vids good input

[@DavidFStarr]

I appreciate the science. It was legit, and the gloves were a nice choice to reinforce that.

[@BeorOng]

Alice will be proud...im a scientist now too

[@ShazKaraz]

I don't even climb, but if I did - I now know which shoes not to buy! Thanks ✊

[@BeorOng]

Haha as a first shoe dont buy any of these anyway

[@DanielleDeutschTV]

Same here; but I will say you make me want to try climbing in the near future! 😅 So it wouldn’t be a good idea for a brand new climber wanting to try 🧗🏻‍♀️ to just go for it in their traditional hiking boots or converse, right? 🤣

[@georgebaldwin5456]

I don't climb either; but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

[@unknownboulder1205]

I have worn the geniuses for one year, climbing everything from plastic, wooden holds, limestone, granit and sandstone and my experience was: I really liked how they fit on my foot, one of the best fitting shoes I had so far but.... friction was terrible, the worst I may say. I had a pair of AC Rockfly from the nineteens... they were way better! sensitivity was bad: I couldnt properly feel small edges, nor pockets... it was more of a guess when climbing on slabs, which is not what you want. I threw them away and swore never to use no edge tech cause there are so many other good shoes on the market... and the pricing on geniuses...but maybe if you like the shoe and want to just go climbing in the gym, i suppose they re alright

[@BeorOng]

I agree dude, and that sucks that the shoe fits so well for you but the grip not being up to par, honestly thats how I feel about the skwamas... perfect fit but honestly same rubber as the rest of them XS grip 2. I think were pretty much on the same mindset when it comes to the shoes.. not our first choice and definitely wouldnt buy them again...pricey as hell and just doesnt perform as great as I wish they would have. Thanks for watching dude, sorry it took me a while to respond, I must have missed the comment when it came in. Stay safe during the virus my man

[@unknownboulder1205]

@@BeorOng cheers bud. So i am a bit of a climbing shoe junkie :)). if someone asks I would say five ten Blanco are my all time favourite, once you break into them. And overall I think Five Ten has the best rubber out there. stay safe! thx for the reply.