BEST cell to buy - Testing Certified, A-Grade, B-Grade, Storage-Grade batteries🤷‍♂️

Today we're testing the #Rept 280 certified cell, the 10.000 cycle #Hithium 280 cell and the #EVE LF 280K cell against each other, comparing the difference and talking about what you should buy these days. Are certified cells really better and worth the extra ~$20-$30?
We do the full testing, charging, discharging, internal resistance, outside difference, 'belly' test, QR codes... everything you need to know before making a purchase
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10.000 cycle Hithium Grade A Cell, test and review:
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Charging LiFePo4 (LFP) to 3.4V and 3.5V with and without Absorption. What a difference!
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[@sfkenergy]

In Regards to the date: Please understand the date stamped on the CELL is the day it is welded. At this time the cell has not been sleeved (blue wrapping) or has been tested. All lithium batteries have a resting period of 30-45 DAYS before they are tested this is to ensure that the cell material has been the date we print on the label is the date that is provided to us at the time the cell is palleted and gets a shipment manifest ID. IF you want to see the Day the cell was welded it is on the label as well please see the OCV 3/4 Time.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You definitely need to change this and make it clearer. Don't call it DOM but date of packaging or similar.

[@sfkenergy]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Sorry but this is how the ministry of transportation in China has said it needs to be done. This is also how it is recorded in there records. All certified cells are recorded this way by the pallet ID or case ID in case their is a recall.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@sfkenergy If this is the case, I would suggest getting all these information together on your website so you can refer people to it. If they just read the contradicting dates, it seems very suspicious.

[@user-dc2ot2tj2b]

you only need to follow the flow and look what volt and amps doing also to the battery, and do i need now a 500 volt bms? or not. the different between a 50 A and a 200 A is how big they are.

[@alexpil4386]

New interesting video,greetings from Ukraine!

[@Stefan_Dahn]

Slava Ukraini from Germany! 🇩🇪❤️🇺🇦

[@FutureSystem738]

Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 from Australia too! 🇦🇺

[@alexpil4386]

@@Stefan_Dahn Thank you for the military assistance and shelter of our refugees.

[@Fergo101]

SFK batteries appear certified by SFK.. not the manufacturer.

[@FutureSystem738]

Thanks as always Andy, great stuff. 👍

[@abelramos8652]

Hi Andy. I’m done with my lifepo4 project. I can’t balance the cells I was about to do a top balance but then I start to mess with the bolts and now both of my jk Bms won’t start. I had enough even if tomorrow the whole shit will be working I can’t be waiting for the next shit happen . I have no knowledge neither patient for this men. I’m solding the cells. People please before go into this think twice is this for you, cells ain’t wrong it’s me so it can be you too. Nothing can fix that.

[@MachielIedema]

SFK battery tested december 2021 and manufacured february 2022. How.......

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You've seen the video... that's what I have found...

[@TrevorFraserAU]

I am so glad you left the falling thingy in the video! More important than testing these cells...

[@gumpster6]

Great comparison testing. For solar storage use it appears that nearly any battery will do the job. I certainly wouldn't pay 30% more to gain nothing.

[@oot1960]

Love your Crocodile clips, I guess it's because we don't have Alligators in Oz!!!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's exactly right. We have Salties down here (salt water crocodiles). They can get you everywhere 🐊

[@GREGGRCO]

LOVE THE TIPS HERE WITH THE BAR CODE !! THANKS !

[@r.b.l.5841]

Andy - Great vid (as usual!) and so glad to see you do these tests for all of us out here in the interweb-world, to save us the cost and time to all do the same testing. I agree with you, I don't see the $$ difference being justified by similar testing and I am (also) very happy with my Energy Storage set up for my solar (now at 59kWhr on my 48v system). However, I suspect the main differences are going to be with matching, and cycles. pretty hard for even you to test the cycles to see if those more expensive cells run "10,000 cycles" but the storage grade ones maybe start to crap out at 4,000-6,000. I have to imagine for my own set up with one cycle per calendar day, at 4,000 plus cycles there will be way better new battery technology available and I can look forward to just swapping out my batteries in a decade. I imagine by then, most home PV systems will be operating at 800vDC based on where the EV tech is going! Thanks again Andy, your content is great.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot for your comment. I fully agree. I have done ~70 cycles with my battery shelf in on year, so even if the do 1000 cycles that's almost 15 years

[@zonta71]

Greetings from grey cold england. This vlog is well timed for me. You hitting my solar spot.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Sun will come back to you soon... be prepared.

[@wayne8113]

Thanks Andy 👍

[@danlynch6194]

Excellent data. You should have more subscribers.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks, Dan. It all takes time...

[@hendersonsobers396]

Great video Andy. This is very useful information.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. I wanted to do this test for soooo long but was waiting for this battery to show up and some sunshine. I didn't expect this result, tbh.

[@hendersonsobers396]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia yup, me neither. i expected the certified cells to outshine the others by a large margin. I guess having a small C draw would've influenced the results but very few people are pulling 1 or even .5C from their cells.

[@nainabla]

Hello Andy. The most important metric that differentiates the "Grade A" cell from "Grade B" cell is not IR or capacity, but the self discharge rate. If you build a battery pack with 4 cells in series with the same capacity and one of the cells has a faster discharge rate, you will always have an unbalanced battery no matter the bms.

[@dc1544]

I agree same on the charge. That is why I am recording which batteries perform the same so I can move my cells. I found 16 out of 64 cells that charge a bit faster at top end which causes a bigger imbalance at above 25-45 amp charging. I do not notice a difference from 5-15 at all and barely any at 20amps. I will watch and see if those same cells get imbalanced at 48-51 volts with a high discharge.

[@4lilpigs]

Thanks mate, just the video I was after

[@tomassliauteris884]

You are the best of the best! Keep doing!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot, Thomas!

[@GobelPowerBattery]

Another great video, Andy! This is Shelly Qu from GobelPower. And the original QR code is B mark code for Storage grade EVE cells after March 2022 and production date can still be checked out, you can remind it might be reprinted intact QR code for None certificated EVE cells.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Shelly, I still got your emails here and I'll get back to you soon.

[@GobelPowerBattery]

Thank you, we would like to send you our LSEV cells(B mark) for you to test and compare too.

[@warnvet]

Hi Shelly, how do you distinguish certified and non certified cells ? Say from EVE ?

[@dig1035]

Still thumbs up and subscribed! Yes, our summer is your winter and vice versa!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you. I can already feel the sun being on a lower angle. At 1:30pm I have the first panel shaded...

[@whatmust8146]

For more than 4 years I built and used recycle batteries (laptop, tablet, cell phone) from either round or pouch shapes for my 14s100p. 200AH. 48V pack for my off grid house and garage. Way harder and time consuming to build from many small cells than this LFP cells. That is why there are very few attempting this way. They all have high internal resistance, all have out of balance from day one but they work just fine for years on recycle throw away batteries that i have to pay to get it from a computer repair shop. (yep they would rather throw away but i have to pay to get them!). I do not have bms, active or passive balance just a simple voltmeter at at each cell and the charge controller to set the max charging voltage of 56.5V. With that says they work just fine for years and from time to time i have to rebuild the pack. It runs the whole house all the 110V stuffs easily on a 3kW true sine wave transformer type. Inverter is a modified 3kw UPS that was used in server back up. Even solar panels are used but top tier. Sun Power brand. The only thing new is the charger controller MPPT. I apply the concept of reduce, reuse, recycle to the maximum. Now if i could do that and have that to run the whole house for years successfully then you would have figured out already IF you have LFP new cells (any grade), new inverter, etc... then you are sure to know that your system will last and run for years and years with definitely certainty. Now you would not know that if i don't tell you wouldn't you. Very few people do the way i do but with that knowledge that gives me the confidence to buy less than certified stuffs and still know it will work just fine. My point is you DO NOT have to buy the best of everything in order to have a solar system that you have always wanted. They all will work just fine and i bet those less than premium stuffs will last you for years of clean free energy. Just get going and do it the more of us doing this and spread the word the better it is for the environment. With the advance of EV we have way more choices now with LFP, wrecked EV with battery pack and the drop in price now is the time to get into this exciting hobby or business. For me the next thing i am going to build up the 48V pack of LFP batteries with active balancer from day one and it is time to do the complete with BMS, active balancer and new LFP batteries and of course IOT for remote monitoring and control. I can remotely turn off my system anywhere in the world but i still have to do the monitoring part. I live in FL so plenty of sun too as in Australia but really even in Alaska anyone still can do solar. People are balking at the expense so let me put this into context for the doubter. I can put together a 48V pack with 200+ AH of LFP with active balancing, bms and all the monitoring capability for under $2000. That is plenty enough to run the whole house everything except the 220v stuffs. LFP if new will last up to 15 years and even then they still retain 80% of their capacity. You can parallel to increase the capacity easily and there are only 3 things that make up the solar battery energy system: battery, solar panels, charger controller. Battery is the biggest expense but is it really if you know how? People paying $200-$400 monthly on their electric bill (especially in FL) so in less than 1 year that already paid off for the battery pack investment. Do i need to explain more? Definitely worth the initial investment not mentioning you are doing something good to help out the global warming crisis. Depending on how ambitious you are but for me it is fun to play around with this solar thing. Perhaps my back ground with a degree in electronic engineer makes all of this fun and easy for me. Trust me people you have all the know how and knowledge if you read and learn online and Utube. DC electronic is super simple and easy to grasp NO need for higher learning of electricity or electronic. I just have a deeper understanding because i spent years in school to get my degree in electronic. BTW I do not intend to pirate your video. I enjoy watching your video and analysis. You have a nice fully equipped garage for certain and I originally watched your video was about the active balance because i had continually quick failure of my pack due to out of balance. Now with what i learned from you i have decided to invest in the NEEY active balancer and diy the solar battery LFP pack 48V. Thank you for sharing!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks so much for sharing. That was a very interesting read. I wonder how you run a battery pack made of so many different cells without a BMS. Not just from a technical perspective but I would be too scared to have a runner-cell, and with Li-ion cells, I mean this from a thermal point of few as well... Thanks again and stay charged!

[@9111logic]

Thanks Andy 🙏

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

My pleasure!

[@rcinfla9017]

Kind of you not to mention the 300.8 AH claimed vs 284.4 AH measured. Should record ambient temp when making capacity measurements. You're in heat of summer so not an issue here but when you get below 20 degs C it starts to matter.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

As long as they are all at the same temperature, it is comparable, I think.

[@rcinfla9017]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, but you pulled out previous cell measurements to compare. How can you do that without knowing what temperature they were made at? A cool cell acts like an older worn cell. Greater terminal voltage slump and less extractable capacity

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@rcinfla9017 We tested the Hithium cell just recently so very comparable temps. The EVE cell was tested 4 months ago, so just at the end of spring down here. Already pretty warm. I can say all cells were tested between 25-35°C. I don't think we will see a big difference between 20° and 35°C. A small one, maybe? But nothing substantially.

[@typxxilps]

I am quite happy with the EVE grade B cell (laser marked B) from Docan Power and the EVE grade A from EVE No need to buy from SFK in the US with a doubtfull story cause all their data provided are again better on the label than in reality as seen before on other channels. If you check the EVE factory cell surface it is not much better than your EVE cell. At the end the EVE grade A had been 25€ more and had been shipped a bit faster too , but it might pay off over time cause the capacity had been significantly better by 12 Ah while grade B had been about 2,5 Ah more than advertised. So 10 Ah is roughly 3,5% more based on Ah, but 4% in Wh. What I can not judge is the cycle amount. The major difference is that the EVE genuine seem to be safe for passive balancing by the SEPLOS BMS where the grade B really seem to need a NEEY 4 active balancer from time to time at least. But who knows if the grade A EVE will need the Neey 4 too in 2 years from now. At the end it is a lot cheaper to invest 100€ in a NEEY 4 for peace of mind and get the grade B cell 16 x25€ cheaper which means 300 € on the bank account or in a 16S2P configuration 700€ cheaper which I prefer the most. SFK makes no sense to get a battery made in china with big promises on the label from the US. Too high expectations and also personal issues how to deal with customers that simply had felt disappointed and showed like you the results of the same tests as you do it. For peace of mind I would go again from EVE factory with the nice paperwork they will send for each battery cause it feels quite right or german cause you need a piece of paper, a real certificate. Who know when CATL in germany will start production and might sell surplus stock in their Werksverkauf. That would be my first choice of cause and the end of the hazzle and gambling or lottery. Hope you might find a catl plant in Australia too.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot, great comment. I personally don't have an issue with SFK. They made it very clear what was going on with that case which got public. They make great products and have great support from my experience and a lot pf people agree with that. But for you in Germany, it makes no sense to order a battery from China from a company in the US. Neither for me. Yeah, a local factory would be great. Especially here in AU, they are exporting the resources and buying the batteries back from China. Makes no sense and they need to get their sh!t together and build a Gigafactory down here.

[@repairman2be250]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Good point Andy. The Government here wants Australia to be an Energy Super Power with nothing manufactured in Australia.

[@cuisinartOH1]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Agreed. There is far more to the story but it doesn't benefit SFK to say or do anything because the naysayers will never be satisfied since it's a he said, he said situation.

[@massimax123]

Grazie Andy, very good job...

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Many thanks! That's great support.

[@fldutch]

Thanks for taking the time and testing those cells. I hope you do not get offended by SFK like Ray Builds Cool Stuff. In my view its like comparing apples with pears (or maybe 3 different sorts of apples) . To really get some reliable answers to the initial question you might have to test more cells, from the same manufacturer - Certified, matched ESS-Grade, B-Grade ... eg. 16 cells of each type, do internal resistance, capacity and self discharge rate on each cell and then use them parallel in working conditions - then you might be able to get somewhat reliable information :). In my eyes even more important is that cells match in their characteristics when you install them in one battery. So it's like Ray already stated: you want to get the best quality, best matched cells for the best price :). Not an easy task. I just tested some EVE LF280K (8 - not enough to get reliable results) "Grade A" cells delivered by NKON from the Netherlands (yes, imported from China of cource). I compared them to my EVE LF280K cells delivered from Docan Technology and yes, there really is a difference when it comes to cells having the same characteristics. For me (i run a business, so i was able to buy without VAT in the Netherlands) the cells from NKON were the same price as the cells from Docan - and having a shop on the continent, only a 3 hour drive away at the same price is priceless ;). Not to mention, that you might get into trouble with customs here in Germany due to some questionable DDP practises by chinese vendors... But did not yeat verify that with customs. Though i do not fully agree with the testing methods i do agree somehow with you conclusion. If cells labled "Certified", "Grade A", "Grade B" somehow show the same performance: no need to pay the extra price. But if cells show better quality for the same price, then in my view "the drops ist gelutscht". I will go for the better quality of course. There also are reports on certified cells directly from EVE here in Germany, but i'll have to check prices and the proper contact.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Well, first of all, SFK made a video and responded to the allegations, so you should watch this as well to hear both sides. I wish I could buy these cells here in AU as well for a similar price. But all local shops here are buying in China anyway and sell the batteries here with a very good margin. So totally not worth doing. I would be interested on what difference you found when you compared these cells. Higher avg voltage, lower internal resistance, more Wh?

[@fldutch]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia On SFK: followed all the videos. From a PR standpoint SFK did not do a good job and some of the attempts to explain and justify went totally wrong, others were on point. I‘ll have to check my YT videos to see if i directly compared them there. Cells from NKON were all 2 months old on delivery, same production date, Docan varied between 5-7 months, internal resistance was slightly better with NKON (0,17 mOhm vs 0,18mOhm), capacity/energy was also higher and more consistent (SD Docan 4.1, NKON 1.4), also avg voltage on discharge was higher and more consistent. Just finished the 30 days self-discharge test for the NKON cells - unfortunately i did not do that by the same testing standard for the cells from Docan. Max difference between NKON cells after 30 days post 3.65V top balancing was 40mV, Docan was sth. above 100mV, but do not remember after which period :/. Anyway with a 8s JK BMS the Docan cells work perfectly fine and cell drift is at max 20mV. Hard to tell, if the cells from NKON really are Grade A/Automotive Grade as stated. I would guess near to, but not totally flawless. But also had some problems with inconsistent enviromental temperatures when testing the NKON cells. Results should have been even more consistent. NKON cells will be put into service hopefully during next week, also using a JK BMS, in the same ESS - so there will be a direct comparison of performance i really look forward to :).

[@john_in_phoenix]

My impression is that EVE screwed up the 280 cells and sold them as grade A anyway. SFK thought he was being screwed by Ray because of the poor results. SFK is not the only one that got poor test results from the new 280 EVE cells. On the other hand, every one of the 105 and 304 cells I personally tested were above rated capacity by a comfortable margin. Watt hours is the true way to measure capacity, since it factors in both voltage and amps. I am not sure what the "nominal voltage" is supposed to mean, since like I said, watt hours factors in both voltage and current.

[@fldutch]

@@john_in_phoenix I might totally agree. The question is: did EVE really screw up with the 280K cells? Capacity (measured in Ah) or energy (calculated in Wh) is not the only quality factor you should consider. Evenly distributed characteristics in the batch of cells you want to use in a battery is one of the most important. As is a low self discharge rate (says much about manufacturing quality). Oh and the fokus on accounting cells with much higher capacity then nominal capacity for better quality (beeing the only quality characteristic) was somehow developped by ourselves / the diy community i think. And imho kindly adapted by the sellers. When it come to Ray vs. SFK cells were send from SFKs supplier directly from China to Ray, if i remember correctly? So there might have been an uncertainty in their supply chain - i do not blame SFK for that. Maybe those cells even did better in the EVE factory and of course you have to rely on the data you get from EVE. EVE also states in their datasheet that you have to allow for 5 full test cycles to reach full capacity. I think nearly noone including me would do this with the full batch of cells you receive. And remember: Wh is energy, not capacity ;).

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@john_in_phoenix It depends how old the cells are apparently and if they have settled already vs testing them right after manufacturing. I would say if get very close to the rated Ah at any time, all is good and we can move on.

[@dirk_p]

Thank you and good to know - as Always👍

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks, Dirk!

[@LLampen]

If you want to evaluate the differences with the batteries, they would be needed to be tested with 1C or 2C discharge, or whatever max. the spec says. 40 amp is very gentle for these kind of batteries and does not bring out the differences that might still be there. The non-EV-certfied most likely fail the said test by voltage spiking down with high current discharge, but with low current, they perform the same. Great videos in any case, I much appreciate your unique style, keep it up!

[@MachielIedema]

you din't see the whole video. so sad.🤔

[@LLampen]

@@MachielIedema You are absolutely right, will continue to watch the rest of the video also.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks, Lasse. Who in the world of solar and battery storage is pulling 1C from such a battery? There would be something fundamentally wrong with the system design. They might be better performing in such circumstances but that's not what we are using them for.

[@LLampen]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, in solar storage that kind of scenario will not happen, unless the battery kWh cap is wayyyy too little. My comment was to only point out how it would be possible to see the difference of the batteries, by testing them with high enough amps, which you also said later in the video. My apoligies I rushed into commenting before viewing the whole video first. My bad. :)

[@boatelectricaldiy]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia boats pull these amperages with their solar setups all the time. Most boats are 12 or 24 volts so they must pull higher current. Not all your viewers set up their systems in a home where you can put in a higher voltage battery,

[@marcoarpago]

Thank you Andy very interesting video since I will have to buy 16x6 = 96 more cells in the next 3 years to finish my project. At the moment I have 16 304Ah from QCC and can't complain. If they did a square terminal would be great though.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

96 more cells... wow, what a huge project! I would not bother with the terminals, the round welded studs are perfectly fine.

[@TrevorFraserAU]

I should really send you some cells to test with, coming directly from Eve, and provided from Eve with the correct terminals for screw terminals. The LF289K only comes from Eve in two options: 1. blank terminals to be used for laser welding only, or 2. double bolt holes, obviously for when using bolts. Not to say there aren't other ways of doing things, but then it is outside the manufacturer's specifications. Again, all fine, but the seller should specify that and let the buyer decide if that works for them or not. I am thinking about the stress that is put on the terminal post when drilled and / or tapped. Eve first drills and taps the piece of aluminium to be used for the temjaml, and then laser welds that onto the blank terminal, limiting stress on the terminal. I think the difference is all about longevity in my opinion. I hope that helps.

[@netrocker9990]

I like the new spectacle

[@andreasw5925]

This helped me with my decision to buy hithium cells. The offer I’ve got it a 25% cheaper than for the eve a grade cells. I think it’s not worth it to get the eve cells for a ESS In fact the (fake?) hithium cells perform good here even when the cell is damaged. I plan to have a relatively high load on my 48V system. It might be other cells can cope with that a bit better but since I am going to build at least 2 or 3 packs it doesn’t matter anymore. The planned current is 300A up to 1 hour Average is much lower anyway.

[@ingo6674]

Hallo Andy - super informatives Video und mega sympathisch 👍- schöne Grüße aus Österreich nach down under

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks, Ingo.

[@paulcurtis5496]

Like# 5, Thunder storming here in "Always Hot & Sunny Tucson"

[@paulcurtis5496]

Geez, I high-Voltaged 3 times and only produced 4.1kWatts… far shy of the usual 17-18kWatts

[@Flavius-Tech]

Hi there, Nice informative vids man. Would be cool to make some tests on degradations with your oldest used cells, in terms of cycles, normal use, etc. Maybe you can find some old packs and remove one individual cell from package just for sake of testing in terms of degradation. You are the only one who can make this test, because you use them at daily basis in normal conditions (charge/discharge).

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I think we just did that with the Battery1.0 cells before we installed it in the Seplos Mason box. The video is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXfYimuDp6l0nKM

[@Flavius-Tech]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank you! I just finished watched, it is exactly what i wanted to see. If we can extract 4000 cycles like they are rated. But seems they are much terrible, if 75 cycles took 5% degradation for average. Maybe in few years you test the oldest pack from those 3 packs, that are used much more intense if i am not wrong, from what i saw in like 20 videos on your channel. Those 3 packs are the main battery bank. You think you have more then 400 cycles on oldest pack? Anyway i don't think is possible to use 4k cycles!

[@john_in_phoenix]

@@Flavius-Tech Calendar aging is real, and cells will degrade even if not cycled. The worst thing for degradation is to fully charge a cell and let it sit at full charge.

[@drumminsonlive9199]

You said crocodile clamps and it struck me that in your country you probably don’t have alligators like we do in the USA so you use the term crocodile clamps and we use the term alligator clamps but I’m sure the bite would be sufficient from either. You have a great sense of humor and I love listening to you talk about a subject matter even if it’s not something that I will most likely never need to for my purposes hell I might watch it again and again. Keep up the great work my friend if I may call you my friend and I will share and support your content everywhere I go. My friend Thank You Sir…

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot for your kind comment.

[@rahsomali]

I miss your actual “lab” testing. Long time overdue

[@jackoneil3933]

Very informative result, thanks Andy! It might be interesting to see a if there are any differences in degradation between the grades at about 300 and 1000 cycles, and to test a cell out of your battery bank that's been in service for 9 months.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

This will take years to find out. I do maybe 50-70 cycles a year on my battery shelf batteries... I think storage grade is totally fine.

[@jackoneil3933]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Indeed, and if you pay 40% less you can afford to buy 40% more, and if the service life is 90% of more expensive option you have 40% less cycle load and possibly equal life with 40% more overall capacity for the life of the system. However buying fake 'B' Grade cells that were really 'D' or 'F' grade might not be so cost effective.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@jackoneil3933 I guess nobody will buy C, D or E grade cells on purpose

[@jackoneil3933]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Only by decryption or for salvage prices I'm guessing. I was thinking back to a few years ago when a friend in the off-grid solar business lost a lot of money buying what were sold as 'A' Grade prismatic cells. And even today after watching your videos he's gun shy to buy anything but factory direct warranted cells to package to customers. Your tests seem pretty conclusive Andy but I understand his trepidation to not risk his reputation and business on something he's not personally confidant with. I recently looked at an EV conversion for sale here that used 200ah Prismatic Storage cells that were pretty marginal after two years.The owner said was careful to not abuse them. Most were pretty swollen and about 30% unusable. My hunch was that it was the wrong application rather than an issue with the supplier.

[@keyem4504]

In real life the only important parameter is the capacity. As I got ripped off with my first cells I run a bunch of used cells in parallel to new ones. I don't notice any issues. The 2A JK BMS keeps them in balance. I would always go for the B-grade cells for a PV-system.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yep, I think so too...

[@potetespammare7361]

Sorry mate, I had thought the same thing, pairing a good cell with a bad one to balance a battery pack. But I've read that the new one wears out quickly. Because in this way you can also use bad cells. So it's not true that the new one wears out?

[@keyem4504]

@@potetespammare7361 I didn't combine the cells into one bank. It's two different batteries as in Andy's setup. I don't see why the new cells should be bothered by the old ones. Could you explain the reasoning behind that claim?

[@chuxxsss]

200 mico ohms. They may be using a Keighley resistance tester to test the resistance of batteries. Use to use them in Calibration Lab I ran.

[@regnerusb]

Yeah a new video!

[@joachimmeyer3767]

And what if my neighbors find out that I've bought cheap storage cells instead of first grade/A+++ Mercedes/Porsche-certified super cells? No way! 🤨

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's why you can buy these fake labels on AliExpress 😉

[@5885ronny]

🤗👍👌 Dankeschön fürs Video danke 👍👌

[@Slavomir-1977]

Thank you for a nice video. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thank you.

[@ciciedee5474]

Certified is marketing. Grade A is marketing. Your actual test proves this. Always by the cheaper one. With the money you save, you can buy a more cells.

[@wenhaowong5549]

the hithium discharge starting at 3.66v instead of 3.65

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

And? Great observation btw 😉

[@safetyfirst1484]

Waiting for you to acquire and test the upcoming Sodium based batteries that CATL is going to mass manufacture starting this year. Sodium at $5000+ per ton compared to Lithium at $69 000+ per ton.

[@zonta71]

The vlog would be epic. Na technology

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That will be another 10 years+ until they become mainstream. If ever... We hear about new battery tech all the time and that it will come this or next year. 99.99% of these new batteries will never make it to market.

[@adon8672]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Good point Andy. The Chinese tend to make more realistic claims than our brothers in the Western countries though.

[@davidkettell6236]

@@adon8672 The Chinese will lie about anything to get U.S. dollars.

[@ilcooldj]

@@davidkettell6236 😂couldn't be said better!🤣

[@johann7482]

Interesantes Video, hatte letztes jahr, 32 st.von den LF280k bei Shenzen Qishou Technology gekauft und bin mir immernoch nicht sicher ob wirklich griff ins klo war, kapazität schwankt zwischen 265AH-284AH und hälfte der zellen sind leicht bauchig, mir wurde auch versichert das das keinen einfluss auf Qualität,bzw lebendsdauer hat. Erstattungvon 40$ werd nie bekommen,da ich bei Shenzen Qishou Technology nicht mehr bestellen werde. Bis auf bauchig u weniger AH sind Messergebnisse nicht auffällig. Von andere Lieferanten war gewohnt das schlechteste Zelle vileicht bei 281AH mfg Hans

[@robertbalkovec4087]

What supplier do you use now?

[@mjpbase1]

Re that certified battery, how was the capacity test done two months BEFORE the date of manufacture? I'm either confused or just missing something.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That's what I found...

[@Dutch_off_grid_homesteading]

Heya, nice testing of "differant types of" cell so for solar it doesn't really matters

[@mikybinns9343]

My understanding is that premium Grade cells are used only in electric vehicles..no welded studs..and every thing else is sub standard and sold off for storage etc and they have welded studs fitted for the storage market. Love the video😇 no more seplos 🤗

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, they usually all come with flat terminals and the EV manufacturers are commissioning their own packs and welding busbars onto these terminals. There will be two more Seplos videos and that's it then. I'm done. DONE!

[@ilcooldj]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia the frustration with Seplos is understandable, albeit it has endless possibilities imho, yet Andy has shown us all the tweeks & glitches that may arise with the Seplos's.......just way too much for the average DIY'er

[@pulith5220]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia no eve will give welded studs if requested. Also I think you need to buy directly from EVE to see if it better. I think EVE would send you even 1 cell for testing.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

@@ilcooldj The Seplos BMS is great but they won't be using the full potential and change any of the software as per feedback they are receiving. So, that's a NO from me then. I may have found an alternative though...

[@r.b.l.5841]

I don't see this at all: What EV is using Eve prismatic cells?? I search and no EV uses these blue wrapped prismatic cells?! In fact these cells seem like a very poor choice for such an environment, and This seems to all be 'talk' without any substance. Please, if anyone knows an EV using 280Ah prismatic EVE cells tell me.

[@SailingCatamaranElement]

I think it's time for you to test and compare a Winston cell...thanks for the video!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I heard they stop making these Winston cells...

[@SailingCatamaranElement]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I find that would be odd, as they just recently introduced their 1000ah cell at a trade show...I would contact Thundersky to confirm. They are the cell of choice being installed on foreign yachts here in SE Asia, but they come at a price...I am particularly fond of their M8 terminals. Though I have 1200ah at 12v of EVEs, it would be an interesting comparison to what I could have had for more money....keep up the great work - I always enjoy your channel!

[@highlander2330]

Have you heard of the NMC cells self-discharging due to the decomposition products of PET tape? Maybe you could check a defective LiFePo cell to see if it also contains something like that?

[@PhilippeCJR]

when powering the house, regularly I am getting 100-150A :)

[@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream]

Hi Andy, How much abuse.... Sorry use have the bloated cells had? Is that a good advert for giving them a gentle hug in a fixture? Shine on you crazy diamond. Gaz 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It would not make a difference if you compress them after they are bloated. A small belly is not bad. As you know, I have mine completely uncompressed with a 3mm gap in between them.

[@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I was meaning have you used and abused the 2 belated ones and would a fixture prevent it? 300kgf is actually not very much, I can max out bathroom scales between end plates and screwed rod, just finger tight at 150kg. It would make an interesting video if you inspected the battery shelf's to see if they have bloated after 9month abuse. Especially now you have all those panels.

[@cods41]

prices seem to have moved quite a bit since these were purchased. Now you can get transport grade eve cells direct from EVE for $130 each. Min order 40 cells

[@Hasan-Youtube]

Hi Andy, Please test the Deye inverters. Thanks.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I probably won't, sorry.

[@kirkdis]

Hi Andi, bvattery information and capacity is not in the barcode implemented. The barcode refers to a database whoever hosts this and reads out the stored details there.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

That is new to me. Thanks for the information...

[@khalilullahyosufi9379]

Dear Andy, I just started watching this video I stopped watching and try to write you and say Thank you and appreciate for the time you may reserved for making this video. I am happy to watch your You tube Channel.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot for your kind words and comment. I appreciate your time and interest.

[@xsauce3858]

Beware of SFK battery and the company.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You should watch their video to hear both sides of the story.

[@IanSHarrison]

Eh! How was the skf battery tested 2 months before it was manufactured?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The DOM date on their label is when they weld the studs and pack it on a pallet. I recommended to them not calling this DOM.

[@evil17]

Another great vid and tests Andy. Does ‘Certified’ mean or refer to testing carried out by an on-seller of B grade batteries? My understanding from ur previous videos is that EVE only pass or fail individual cells, if passed they get welded into an EV, if they fail their manufacturers stringent tests, then they are auctioned/sold off to on-sellers who install posts or threads to the otherwise blank top cells, which to me means that all or most of these cells are of failed EV standards and sold for storage. I am happy to buy cheaper storage batteries this way for what they are, Im not too happy about the convoluted marketing BS that goes with certified cells though as there are a number of red flags there, not to mention the claimed & tested 300+AH on label, which doesn’t help with the confidence vote either. I think they are all a gamble each must make, & many of us will end up with at least 1 or 2 bloated cells in a pack (I have), even from reputable sellers. I cant see enough evidence here to support paying the premium price for these alleged Certified cells & I am somewhat sceptical now if the QR codes are even giving correct or much real info either. I would be going for the cheaper cells for now, with a view to what may come with future upgrades, battery prices & technology. Cheers.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Great summary, thank you. I have not seen any evidence myself yet, that these A-grade or certified cells are having any benefits for solar storage projects. We don't know if they last longer, have a higher cycle count or can store more energy. We will be reading this in 2035 and laugh how stupid we all were back now... 😂

[@ChrisEldridge]

Just an FYI Andy, the torque driver you have on your website for USA Amazon points to one that doesn't go low enough for torque on batteries. I believe I found the proper one you have already, how do I send you the link for it on amazon as well?

[@ddaky8]

i watch a lot of your videos and i decided to order my first cells from shenzen qishou technology...can you tell me how streight do they have to be when arrive...my have small bumps when i put something straight on them,and what is cheapest way to test them

[@pmacgowan]

Thanks Andy for all your hard work ... now go and take your wife out for a nice dinner!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks... wife? I totally forget about her... 😯

[@lobbiedove5014]

Thanksyou Andy. Have you ever had one of these vent or short for a small amount of time? What is experience please?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Noooo, that should never happen. If so, it is heavily overcharged and release the pressure through the top valve.

[@sarkissarkis8780]

Hi, thank you for great test and please i want ask you about measure cells by their weights and let's see if all same weight or not, because SFK battery maybe it is 300 Ah Orginal capacity not 280 Ah let's check their weight and compare to EVE 280k data sheet. And thanks again

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

OK, I'll have a look at this as well. Good point.

[@sfkenergy]

This is a REPT battery NOT EVE 2 seperate manufacturers, you can view our results here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZ6cfWasgbmFj5o

[@chuxxsss]

Andy, you have storm up there, mate? Beautiful day here in Victoria, I would say 5kW to 10 soon. lol

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I'm not that far up. Some rain forecast for today though. Washing off this dust from the panels.

[@chuxxsss]

@OffGridGarageAustralia Wish I was cleaning panels and not tiling bathroom 😫 mate.

[@john_in_phoenix]

My experience with grade A (with EVE test reports) vs grade B...... 16 of the 105ah cells (grade A) all measured above 105ah, I think the lowest was 108ah. EVE measured higher, but that's what I measured. I have the data files saved somewhere, but didn't note the watt hours. 16 of the 280ah EVE cells (all grade B, I knew that when I purchased them). Two measured right at 280ah, 4 measured 264ah to 267ah, the remainder averaging around 274 or 275ah. The four that measured the lowest had obviously been fully charged and left that way for about 18 months (they took about 5 amp hours each to reach 3.65v). The remainder were shipped at the normal 30% state of charge. 16 of the 304ah EVE cells (all grade A with test reports direct from EVE). These all measured above 304ah (lowest was 309 or 310) but lower than EVE measured. Again, I have the data files somewhere that I would have to look at to get the watt hours. I know multiple people ordered the 280ah EVE cells that reported the grade A cells measured below 280ah, despite ordering from the same place that I did. Since I didn't order any grade A cells at 280ah capacity, I can't verify that. But the people reporting this elaborated on their testing methodology, and they certainly sound truthful to me (same tester, same methodology). Anyway, I am very happy with the 304ah EVE cells. The only difference when I test is I clamp the voltage sense line as close as possible to the terminal on the busbar on the opposite end from the "power" clamp, rather than on the stainless steel post. This should not make a difference. Once top balanced, none of mine have had any issues with staying balanced using a JBD with 150 milliamps balance current (more like 70 as you have demonstrated). I have an active balancer, but have only used it to help top balance once. I have found my Riden power supplies to do it easier before assembly into a pack. Edit to add that the difference between grade A and grade B really only shows up around 80 to 100 amps current, below this, the performance is equal and the grade B seem fine until you draw a lot of current. The capacity is what it is.

[@sfkenergy]

The ali sellers will always make sure youtuber influencers get the "Best of Grade B" while the common gets the random junk. As noted before Andy became big Basen unloaded the same typical all over the place Grade B they give to everyone else.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Again, my cells where not picked, far too many issues, capacities not met and fake barcodes. I also don't order under my name.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks, John. Appreciate you're sharing this data. It is really interesting to read your results.

[@sfkenergy]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Andy we can send you some Fresh 280 or 304 but the deal is you need to test them when you get them, they can't be put aside for months, you'll see the first test you do they will very close to the label but if you retest them in 9 months they will be closer to the cell stated capacity usually 2-3% higher. This is the settling period it is the same for all cells. I think you got Fresh Grade B Hitium Cells vs 14 month old Grade A REPT cells so the results are similar.

[@MiH1IT]

I seriously doubt any of these are A-grade batteries. The only source of A-grade I've found (but did not test, as my battery shelf has full occupancy atm) is nkon nl company. Their EVE batteries even have real A-grade terminals. I plan to test them in future, when I expand my battery storage. I agree that good quality B-grade should be enough (not sure about how many years it can last), but I just hate liars.

[@habana7638]

I have those NKON Eve “A-Grade”? cells (24Volt install) for over a year now and they were the only ones that were easily available here in the Netherlands and those A-grade terminals are nice to work with, I balance the cells with a max 150mA (SBMS0), the balance starts at > Δ10mV and only see a difference of 40mA at the top of the curve and when charging stops it drops back to Δ10mV and stays there, Look occasionally if the heater still works and that's that.😄

[@niktak1114]

18650batterystore also has grade A with the double stud terminals

[@habana7638]

@@niktak1114 Yeah if you live in North America, not so handy for me in the Netherlands..😄

[@niktak1114]

@@habana7638 True. Even within the US shipping cost quite a bit from there (over $400 for 48 cells).

[@5UPRAH]

On the certified battery, how can the date of test be before the date of manufacture?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They label the DOM as the date the cell was packed on a pallet. Very confusing. The real DOM is on the QR code I've scanned.

[@seymourpro6097]

So supposed grade A and grade B cells are the same as far as stationary energy use is concerned. Has anyone noticed that the rack mount assemblies contain either 15 or 16 cells according to brand, what is the chance of a 15 cell pack and a 16 cell pack working well together in the same storage system?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You cannot mix these two batteries together. There is a 3V difference and they will not charge in parallel. Cell count and chemistry needs to be the same.

[@GTrainRx7]

Is it "Sunny hot Australia right now??? ;-P

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

It is!

[@arebear4797]

For solar storage purpose, all these certified non certified will make no difference as we probably using on average 0.5C. The difference will be seen when testing 1C and above where the non-certified will show their sign why they not certified. So again, as most of us watching this channel for solar storage purpose, you all should be fine with any of these grades. My own preferences would be the cheapest as you would buy more with the same money of the expensive one and that definitely will give you advantage through lower cycle or lower DOD.

[@GregOnSummit]

I just bought a tester like yours, but confused on what setting to use ... I read the mfg testing doc and when testing it should be set to charge at 3.65v at 40A, then wait 30 minutes, then discharge at 40A? to 2.5v. I follow that and recharge to 3.3 at 40A. In this video you're not waiting. Also, the resting voltage is around 3.4v after 30 minutes of rest. So my question ... should you wait or go right into discharge? Should you discharge at 40A or 20A. I get 290AH at 20A, but 270AH at 40A when testing. I have the EVE LF280K from Qishou. Edit: Cell temp is around 12c ... Winter in Washington, USA

[@GREGGRCO]

I DO LIKE TO KNOW YOUR WEATHER THERE ! THANKS ! BEAUTIFUL DAY THERE. CURRIOUS, DO YOU HAVE ORANGE SKY SUN SETS THERE ? WHEN I WAS YOUNG, WE DIDN'T HAVE ORANGE SKY SUNSETS LIKE WE HAVE NOW A DAYS. BUT I'VE LIVED LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THIS I GUESS. ONLY TIME WE HAD ORANGE SKY SUNSETS WAS AFTER A VOLCANO WENT OFF SOMEWHERE ON EARTH.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Yes, we have the orange, pink, purple sunsets a lot here. Very beautiful. Nobody makes better sunsets then the Australians.

[@maxmeyer7299]

Are you sure the SFK cell is a grade A cell? Then the voltage should last longer after fully charging. I think that's just a better B cell too. order a grade A cell from EVE and compare it with your values again. The B cells are certainly sufficient for the ESS system, but the only question that remains is how long will they last and when will the self-discharge of the cell come to an end. If the cell shows a high level of self-discharge right from the start, what happens after 5 years? Unfortunately only time will tell.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

The A-grade cells I have from EVE are 304Ah cells, so cannot really compare them. I have however a 304Ah EVE B-Grade cell, so will do this comparison between these two.

[@maxmeyer7299]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia A real grade A cell should probably keep the voltage >3.5V longer, which is due to the low self-discharge. With an ESS system, this will only become noticeable when the self-discharge becomes so large and the cells lose too much capacity in contrast to their S16 competitors. The question is, after how many years, but you've come a long way, you have old cells and you've been using them for a while... that'll be exciting.

[@upnorthandpersonal]

@@maxmeyer7299 The voltage of these cells does not stay above 3.5V, grade A, automotive, or whatever. LiFePO4 settles down to 3.4V to 3.45V within 24 hours or so.

[@davidcox8961]

Hey Andy !! Got a question for you. What torque spec do you use for the welded studs on the EVE cells. You have mentioned different specs. 4 - 5 nm ?? I enjoy your videos. Thanks and Cheers !!

[@dc1544]

it should be the same. its the threads that need a torque value having them welded shouldn't change that value.

[@davidcox8961]

@@dc1544 I get how torque values are set but in this case my greatest concern is that I break the weld. My cell provider just told me that 5 to 8 nm is good. Start low and check that the ring terminals will not move. Thanks for responding. Cheers !

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Hi Dave, I use 4Nm for the busbar connections. 8Nm is too much and could already damage the terminal itself. That's the max torque the terminal can withstand as per specs. So, 4Nm is totally fine and sufficient.

[@davidcox8961]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks Andy !! Four nm is what I've been using. I've been reluctant to tighten any more. Cheers from cold and rainy Pacific NW.

[@gwenaelg2957]

Bonjour mr Andyß, merci pour cette nouvelle vidéo pourriez-vous me dire a quoi correspond cut off cur en mode décharge quel est la valeur ideal pour vous pour tester sans abîmé les cellules eve 280 k . Puis-je les recharger a 3.65 volt avant de les installer en parallèle avec une charge stabilisé a 3.65 volt

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

You can charge them to 3.65V safely, no problem. As per our testing, we found it is not necessary though and 3.45V seems to do the exact same thing. For the initial first charge and balancing, you can charge all cells in parallel to 3.6V before connecting them in series and for your battery.

[@ChipMIK]

You could have charged the 3 cells in parallel to avoid any inaccuracy of the tester. I would be interesting to see the deviation in ex. 16 pcs. lf280k´s. I bought 48 pcs lf280k´s from Quishou where theres several thats got what looks like crystalized stuff exiting from middle of the vent (below the protective plastic and only a few mm from center), is that normal?

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I have to charge the cells and then discharge them immediately, If I leave them sitting, the voltage will sag again and the curves look different then. Charging to 3.65V with 1A cutoff and discharging them right afterwards is best to start exactly at the same point and make it comparable. There should be no liquid or crystals on the safety valve, that is not normal, no. Watch this over time if it gets more...

[@ChipMIK]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia Good point, ty :-)

[@ianpope7061]

I think it depends on your application. If you able to regularly check your system, have reliable comms, it probably doesnt matter. But of your system is truly remote, no comms, prob only gets checked yearly or less....then I suggest it matters. What concerns me is you specify a certain quality spec for bateries, but you are completely dependent on your supplier to meet your specification!! Thats the annoying bit. And just because they supply one good set of batteries initially, you still have to check each and every cell when it matters.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks Ian, yes, I agree. If you cannot access and monitor your system easily, quality matters. We are dependent on what suppliers sell us and if this differs from our expectation or what they have offered, there is the big problem. As in a previous video mentioned, we need more transparency here from the seller to meet our expectations. If they do the capacity test anyway, why not print this on the label and be honest. More people would buy from them.

[@boatelectricaldiy]

Haven't watched the whole video yet, when testing the voltage sense wires should not be on the ss post as it adds resistance.

[@christophec252]

Hey Andy. I have a video test proposal. (I can’t. Find your email). I was discussed with a person who do not do top balancing (EKTexh charger tester) before installing the cells and use a 5 amps balancer to go up to 3.65v once installed in série. Do you think the result will be the same at the end? He says it’s faster this way!

[@KoreanTacoKing]

Can you test the same type of cell this is very confusing you have EVE cells, Hithium Cells and REPT cells. They should have been all been REPT or all EVE or ALL Hithium

[@onthelake9554]

I think you missed the whole point of the video .

[@clarencewiles963]

Thumbs up sent. ? $ ? Yep

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Thanks a lot.

[@sfkenergy]

Thank you for the test, please try out the 304 we sent as well, REPT is a new line we have started carrying, they are good but not as strong as the EVE cells. I think the issue that you need to understand is that Grade A guarantees a minimum level of performance. I'm quite certain your vendors cherry pick cells for you reviews while the other users get much lower quality cells, so perhaps what we need to remember is that Consistency is extremely important when building a pack, many online resources are filled with users complaining about low quality, as you know before you became a big youtuber you received some questionable quality cells form Basen, it wasn't until you got a large audience that the vendors made sure you got "the best of grade B". So with grade A you are assured a minimum level of quality and we stand behind every cell we sell.

[@ilcooldj]

I wanted to say the exact same thing, but i would've been burnt in the comment section. Good thing it came from you as Manufacturer, now people will listen. Excellent response 👌as i stil remember his "Basen" review many years ago!

[@fldutch]

Here we go again ;). Please forget about the focus on over nominal capacity or energy. In my view there are some other factors you already stated in you videos, In my view the most important one are evenly distributed cell characteristics throughout the batch of cells you want to use in one battery. And that might be exactly what the automotive industry requires?

[@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream]

SFK Don't shout off too loud, your sticker said it was tested to 300'ishAh and er well Andy didn't get anywhere close to that!

[@fldutch]

@@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream Well, no one ever gets near the factory measurement printed on cells. Forget about capacity as the major quality charateristc for LiFePO4 cells. Yes, measurement is so easy. And most of the YT channels testing cells (me included) mostly work with the cheap EBC-A40/A20. Delivering high power with voltage stability is beside self discharge one of the main characterstics of automotive grade cells. But i have not seen any videos except SFK doing that with the HP8182. I would buy one, but definetely overkill at 2000+$ - for the moment 🤷🏻.

[@garys-half-baked-offgrid-dream]

@@fldutch I know but it still needed to be said they are not even close. I use the EBC 40 as well it is not a toy, the results were acknowledged by my UK supplier when I questioned and returned their low performing. "Grade A"

[@tuannguyenvan2727]

Can you redo this experiment, but discharge the battery at 0.35C discharge rate? Thank you.

[@user-dc2ot2tj2b]

Hi mate sure you have solutions also, you only have to see them. you are all using 50 volt well i am going to 500 volt because i use this voltage you can have 500 A x 50 V i turn this to 50 A x 500 V the end is the same but not complete i ask on albaba the voltage they have to be 3.2 V 50 A why only 50 A well with 10 units i will have still 50 a one ubit is 35 kg 200 A would be more than 100 kg a unit to mats for me to lift the funny thing not one china seller were able to tell me they were able to connect them in serie they all can do paralel nice but that is not making 500 volts. that is why i say you can do it also if you think about it and need it.

[@curacao11]

😎

[@onthelake9554]

SFK says says your wrong Andy , he's already posted a rebuttal video . He still has to tell everyone they are just wrong .

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

They are using a different test method so will get a different result. I can only use the same settings on the tester for several cells and compare. I have more cells from them to test but they are all a few months old, so...

[@sfkenergy]

We did not Say Andy was wrong, we said we used different methods and cells that were newer vs the 14 month old cells that Andy tested. So there Certified cells are pulling 285 AH even after 14 months. New Cells are pulling 296, but even these cells after a while will get closer to 285-290 and will generally stay there. You on the other hand went off about how your Hobby King University degree told you that turnigy 10 gauge wire can run 140 amps...

[@onthelake9554]

@@sfkenergy Again your personal attacks when some disagrees with you is not warranted. I stated 40 amps through 10 awg silicone wire is fine and it is .

[@sfkenergy]

@@onthelake9554 10 awg is specked for 30 continuously. Its not possible to insult someone who is of the belief they can run 140A through 10 awg wire... At this point we have more than responded to all concerns people have raised, now it is just opinions. Not going to waste any more time with grade B warriors...

[@onthelake9554]

@@sfkenergy I certainly hope you keep your word .

[@JStarke240]

Get 3 more of the 40 amp testers :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

To safe some time? Hahaha, yeah, if I would hardcore test these cells, maybe. Usually I test one out of 16 I'm getting and good is. If there are problems down the track, I'll test further...

[@JStarke240]

Hey Andy :).. Hardcore testing is where I was headed. Put them up on a higher amp draw and see what they do. I put them in my golf cart (36 volt), the storage grade cells, and am still happy with that decision. I think your regular testing is just fine for 80% of people, but for some, they'll definitely go up in the amp draw (200-300 amp momentary peak) as I do. Pedal to the metal! I think the additional hardcore testing would make for interesting content for your channel, add to the community's knowledge base, and might even show that the storage cells can do more than what they're often given credit for (of course, if procured from a reputable distributor).

[@patrickmckowen2999]

👍👍

[@Blueworld950]

Where can i buy ev certified cell

[@SebastianKessler473]

First one from germany 😉

[@regnerusb]

Guten tag!

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

Achterbahn it is called!

[@SebastianKessler473]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia In some cases the A10 around Berlin is like a Achterbahn 🎢

[@endrefidje5698]

I think you should do the same test with these batteries after they have done a 1000-cycles run. Are the charge/discharge curves almost identical still or have things changed since this test... 🤔

[@upnorthandpersonal]

How many cycles does one typically perform during a year? Maybe 100 if you push it. So that's 10 years before he can do that test.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I have done around 70 cycles with my battery shelf in one year. See you in 2037 for the result. Honestly, who really cares about if the cells lose a bit of capacity, voltage, stored energy. Everything we're using ages and does not perform like new any more after some time. Just use them and get the most out of it!

[@GordonGaz]

I miss the frog sounds over the swears

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

OK, coming up next 🐸

[@GordonGaz]

👍🐸👍

[@LucianIoanMelinte]

Hi Andy, couldn't you just build a pack with all these cells and test it with high currents? You could see the voltage drop for each cell in the BMS app and compare. Let's say you run this test at 90% SOC, 50% SOC, 10% SOC... it should result in a pretty good comparison on how the cells behave. Please forgive my ignorance if this is a stupid idea, I'm only an enthusiast with no training in this domain :)

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I could do this, 2x 280Ah and 2x 304Ah cells in series makes a 12V battery. It would be good for a high current test then. But again, I'm questioning the benefit of such a test. What do we get out of it? How many people use these batteries with 200A+ on a daily base? And, I have done the high amp test with the B-grade cells and they were fine, so there is no issue in doing this if you need to.

[@LucianIoanMelinte]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia We would have an independent test verifying the claims of SFK that their cells hold the voltage better. Maybe some people are willing to pay for that. I wasn't thinking about 200A, but more like 100 - 150A. For example I've build a 24V 280Ah-ish battery + 2.4 KW inverter to power a small cabin (thanks for your videos, they helped me alot) :) . I have alot of woodworking tools that use as high as 2000-2200W, so 80-90A current would not be so unusual for me.

[@davidrogers5343]

just which is the best A, B, or C, unless you're going to MARS no stores.

[@ingobergmann8961]

Hallo Andy, hast du zufällig eine Idee wie ich meinen Multiplus am einfachsten per Wlan remote steuern (an/aus) kann. Grüße aus Deutschland von Ingo

[@kajitis_1]

Andy, this is not a totally fair test. You should get someone else to order your cells. I guess you would see a big difference in Ah, as they probably cherry-pick the ones they send you. The ones I got from Qishou in april-22 measured 270-275Ah. It doesn’t make a huge difference, but it is still wrong.

[@stanislavmlcuch2085]

I bought LF280K from Docan 07/2022 and I tested them on EBC A40L. The lowest has 277,8Ah the highest 283,1Ah. Total price what I payed for 16 cells was 2126€ with all taxes.

[@kajitis_1]

@@stanislavmlcuch2085 I paid about the same. $2050 for 16 LF280K in total to Sweden.

[@OffGridGarageAustralia]

I had some 'bad' cells as well and showed them on the channel. Take the Hithium for example I ordered from Qishou. They came with fake labels. I don't think they cherry picked them for me...

[@kajitis_1]

@@OffGridGarageAustralia I’m not criticising you in any way Andy, you are doing a great job and we appreciate you sharing it with us, but you must admit that the chance of you getting bad cells is a lot smaller than for the rest of us. The Hithium cells were quite good even if you couldn’t read the 2D code.