Best Lee In The World Responds To My Video

[@BilalKhan-ng3ex]

16:09 😂😂 this is almost poetic, he complains about Lee's movement against wavedash mixups, and literally can't get the mixup to hit so he abandons it.

[@BullC6]

LMFAO

[@michaelmurray6577]

lmao

[@tonyl9636]

It's like when tmm was trying to prove how dumb Heis rage drive combo was with a Kaz combo, but had to disengage rage for Kaz because kazs combo did more damage without the RD, then switched to hei and yelled "WHERE IS MY RAGE" Just in defense of this guy, I've never heard a Tekken player not say some dumb shit crying about whatever made them salty that day. This dude probably lost to a Kaz before this video like tmm lost to a hei before that video lmao

[@markcrowl6142]

He didnt use rage for Kaz because he was comparing a perfect electric combo with Hei rage drive combo, and you need rage to do that@@tonyl9636

[@ScrambledEggAbdullah]

​​@@tonyl9636He said where's my rage cause he didn't have rage on, and you need Rage to do a Rage drive.

[@Danish10xHD]

Respect to TMM. He can watch a persons take, give his response and still be respectful to the person too. 💙

[@traezaX1]

It's called maturity... Main man is grown ain't got time to cry over opinions of others ... much respect

[@UnclePatches]

Sadly TMM suffers from Dunning Kruger effect and forgets he's an online player arguing against a tournament player, a lot of his counter takes come off as very passive aggressive.

[@bansheejack7567]

what are you talking about this logic is weird so just because mainman is a online player and GM is a tournmanent player that GM is always right?@@UnclePatches

[@nathanthomson4468]

@@UnclePatches You were just itching to type "Dunning Kruger effect", huh? Maybe do some jumping jacks to diminish that hate boner you got for TMM.

[@atuls55]

He wasn't when a guy made a video on how to deal with Nina's strings when TMM was trying to make out it was impossible. He made a fair video on it but TMM got butthurt and had to unfairly character assassinate the guy.

[@petergoodspieces130]

Always remember, just because someone is an amazing player with a character it doesnt mean they are good at debating about characters GM had like 0 arguements against Kazuya. I wish people would either not speak or be more thoughtful of what they are saying

[@pranavjain8774]

nah but it makes sense lee is a good mtachup into kazuya but is he kazuyas worst ? i would argue steve is worse matchup or really any small bodied female characther

[@slippers8000]

​@@pranavjain8774you could for sure explore the question deeper.

[@The_WIll_OF_D99]

​@@pranavjain8774im pretty sure MM talked about Steve vs Kaz anyway

[@pranavjain8774]

@@The_WIll_OF_D99 yeh i know i watched it which is why im saying steve is worse than lee

[@ScrambledEggAbdullah]

​​​​@@pranavjain8774Kazuya's best poking tool's his jab and Lee has high evasion in almost all his key moves and Steve has very little so that alone makes Lee better against Kaz. What does Steve have against Kaz that Lee doesn't? Lee also has better fast CH launchers than Steve which are useful against Kaz. Again man, what does Steve have against Kaz that Lee doesn't. Lee seems to have more tools to counter Kaz so your argument just crumbles at this point. And why did you say Steve is better again? Oh yeah "I think Steve is better against Kaz" Was your argument.

[@superblack898]

might be one of the best lees ever, but these arguments are the green rank special

[@ItzNeverLupus]

exactly just cuz a certain someone happens to be a good player dont mean they know wtf theyre talking about let alone understand certain weaknesses and strengths to characters. Dude would be a poopfart teacher

[@MrDamojak]

Fr, I still have no idea what bro was even trying to say

[@Lobothemainman23]

Im always amazed how bad the takes are from some of the best/smartest players.

[@NikkoKami]

Forreal man

[@MRcoolman702]

​@@Lobothemainman23Its called the "Smelling your own farts" mentality. Its where you're so good at something (or think you're very good) to the point you start to minimize your thinking comprehension and begin to think on your ego.

[@RainbowCFH]

it's kinda impressive how defensive people are of their mains, meanwhile everyone: your character is bs marduk mains: I know

[@naiiin6949]

I might be biased but i feel like yoshi mains are the same in that regard

[@aspoiledpotato6231]

Thats because the entire purpose of marduk mains existing is to make your life a living hell

[@emovince100]

Even his arguments are 50/50's.

[@S_P_A_C_I_F_Y]

Excellent 🌹

[@davidchu2001]

fightinggm thinking kaz player can consistently punish -13 with electric is wild

[@bansheejack7567]

that shit infuriated me it clearly shows that he thinks kazuya's execution isnt that hard

[@tongpoo8985]

Fr, not only frame perfect timing, cant buffer it so you have to do it frame 1 out of block stun. So you have to know the blockstun frame perfect for that particular string, recognize the string and react to it properly and risk no punish at all, and be able to do perfect electrics at will. This is impossible to do consistently except for the absolute highest level kaz players who have practiced it against common -13 strings, and even they who have a chance to do it will not attempt this in tournament. It's such a dumb take it makes me think he's trolling or just doesn't understand how difficult it is.

[@Lobothemainman23]

@@tongpoo8985 Agreed. Even consistently even punishing -15 is so hard. If you don't practice against specific moves to know the block stun you won't even hit that.

[@UltimateBallaPOM]

​@@tongpoo8985 The first forward can be buffered. Majority of Kaz players aren't actually doing legit 13f electrics. They'd be able to do Taunt Mach Punch if they were doing it at the instance of recovery

[@tongpoo8985]

@@UltimateBallaPOM it cant be buffered. You can hold it down and release it on the precise frame, but this is honestly harder. And even if the forward had a legit buffer window, it would be irrelevant since you would still have to do the very next input (neutral) on the exact second frame out of blockstun.

[@done7216]

he might be the best lee i’ve ever seen, but he also has the worst arguments i’ve ever heard

[@SSGoatanks]

Looks like the only way to settle this is with a matchup between FightingGM as Kazuya and MainManSWE as Lee.

[@praxiann7615]

@@SSGoatanks lol TMM can actually play other characters, did you see GM trying to just electric?

[@SSGoatanks]

@@praxiann7615 Yeah GM's excuse was that he wasn't a Mishima player - it'll still be a cool matchup to see though especially if they decide to play their mains!

[@praxiann7615]

@@SSGoatanks I find Lee boring, all keep out or slides, he's very hard but that is just for combos, which he doesn't need to win cause his poke game is so strong. Kazuya has nothing and also hard to play.

[@Megelos]

Arguing Kaz is strong because he can launch punish -13 is the same thing as calling Bryan the strongest character in the game because he has an unblockable launcher.

[@KyeCreates]

This doesn't make sense as those are two different things...

[@thatonebandit9333]

@@KyeCreates the point hes making is that just because kaz has a very strong punish doesnt mean its easy or consistent to do them. Though bryans unblockable knee is easier to pull off than trying to launch punish a -13 move with kaz lol.

[@dREAMISt.]

@@KyeCreates It's the same thing, like YES of course this is possible, BUT can you do it?

[@XxImStarvingxX]

He did say you have to have those...😅

[@fightinggm]

I respect tmm opinion on this matter. It was nice to have a debate like this with two different opinions on a character match up regardless if we agree with each other. In all i dont think the match up is one sided in any direction

[@pinhead9304]

ur takes in this debate were terrible and buy a decent mic chrisin also beat you in a ft20. u have not done anything with lee in tekken 7 all ur tekken 7 accomplishments were with geese

[@foxsteve9937]

you guys should make a podcast or something talking together DEAAAAAAAAAAA

[@illiahryhorak5860]

Now I want to see GM (Kazuya) vs TMM (Lee), not playing mains, just to prove their points, to test those strategies

[@Sadbringer]

TMM would destroy GM probably, for he is not a mishima player, and TMM does play Lee quite a bit.

[@Lobothemainman23]

@@Sadbringer GM is a pro player. TMM would get destroyed. But that wouldn't exactly help GM's argument.

[@uavisionx]

@@Lobothemainman23 lmao, TMM held his own against one of the best Tekken players of all time, yeah that was Knee, so thinking he would bury his head in sand against a pro player is wishful thinking. This match needs to happen now!!!

[@progste]

I don't think that would prove anything but it would be fun.

[@Lobothemainman23]

@@uavisionx Knee used TMM's main and still destroyed him. Super Akouma beat him 10 times in a row, he just faced a pro Noctis and got trashed, Arslan vs TMM was a joke, Kaizur with Lucky Chloe demolished him, and any time he faces a pro its not even close.. They're pros for a reason. TMM is a great player, but there is zero evidence that he could beat any pro players.

[@reng.2588]

Remember remember Lee has a hopkick. Period. You know how valuable and powerful is a hopkick in your arsenal?

[@kizarugaming4829]

In red ranks for sure

[@noobslayer1196]

He has a worse hop kick than king lmao

[@kain1144]

"he has 13 frames electric" lmao Okay now punish -13 on block with ewgf 😂😂

[@SS_Sin_Of_Pride]

If being able to 14f electric punish a minus 14 move is considered godlike, -nobody- very few will 13f electric punish in the heat of a match. Yeah Kazuya CAN 13f electric Lee's ws2,3 but that's in theory. In a real match on a tournament setting its a completely different thing. That alone is a weird AF take imo.

[@tongpoo8985]

​@@azaku9755okay? How about the rest of humanity

[@WzDk13]

​@@azaku9755 Love when people give 1 example and act like that means it's doable for 99.9% of the rest population.

[@SS_Sin_Of_Pride]

@@azaku9755 Yeah because 1 player can do it means EVERYONE can?

[@MrDamojak]

​@@azaku9755he still drops it so much to the point of it being suboptimal. If he was punishing with b12 it would get him more damage in the long run

[@BullC6]

@@MrDamojak exactly...He won't ever go for it in high stakes battles like tournaments, especially in clutch situations. People risking getting ducked and launched is just stupid.

[@deathonadinosaur]

He's such a good player. It's too bad his attitude is so counter productive. He doesn't compete even tho when he does he does pretty good. Always with tons of excuses . Makes enemies with everyone and will not take criticism. I really want to be a fan but he makes it so hard. He should have a great streaming/competition career but he is his own worst enemy.

[@Sevis114]

you uh you have kaz and lee on your profile picture anyways yeah i agree with you. it also feels hard for me to like gm because he is his own enemy

[@pinhead9304]

gm's stream is wack and he owes single mothers money. chrisin and father are better anyway

[@chucklos391]

Agreed

[@bullseye7721]

I asked that guy “why is he not competing in twt” and just got banned for this 1 question, lol

[@inconsiderateraccoon2345]

The matchup definitely favors Lee more. Kazuya can launch punish some of Lee's lows (just two of them since all you have to do is space out fc df4 and not do D3 all the time), but that doesn't say much for that whole matchup. Bringing up the PEWGF is not a good argument because that takes gods execution to do. 9 times out of 10, you are not launching that with a 13 frame electric due to block stuns and what not. You don't even see Kodee launch stuff like that and that man can do DF2 PEWGF very consistently. Also your points about how Kazuya doesn't have to deal with Lee shenanigans is very flawed because all you did was show some basic flowcharts any character can punish Lee for. Like DF1 into FF4, magic 4, or D3? Any character with standard movement can side step/walk and punish those my dude. You basically saying every character is a bad matchup for Lee. And you just say the same stuff over and over again. "Kazuya can just poke Lee" which is very false by the way. Feel like you just made the video because you saw someone who isn't a pro player make it. You not thinking about the strengths and weaknesses of your character and not comparing it to Kazuya's strength and weaknesses. And Lee's movement is definitely enough to side walk Kazuya's EWGF, FF3, hellsweep, or any move that can be side walked left. Saying if you "guess wrong" on pokes is just Tekken chief, I don't know what else to tell you. We deal with the same stuff when we play against Lee. The risk/reward to beat Kazuya in the neutral as Lee is way more rewarding and less risky than what Kazuya has to do to win the neutral against Lee. Kazuya's keepout is mostly EWGF, DF2 (if they are an idiot), and FF3 (for if the opponent is trying to duck electric). Lee has a variety of moves to stop Kazuya from doing EWGF in the neutral which is the biggest thing because that is his key move. He has FF4, D3, slide, and fc df4. The least riskiest and most rewarding move is FF4 since it is safe, goes under highs, gives Lee decent damage, and it's hard to whiff punish. The minute you getting Kazuya to stop EWGF because you are doing slide or FF4 means you can just go in and attack. If the Kazuya player starts doing DF2, bait it out because it has terrible whiff recovery and it is -12 on block. If they do FF3, that means you ducking too much and need to do smaller moves like DF1 and that move high evades sometimes. Now Lee's keepout is B4 hitman, FF4, magic 4, fc df4, hitman 1+2. All of these are good keepout moves. Kazuya cannot try to beat out your moves with EWGF because there is a 90% chance that it will trade with B4, get high crushed by FF4, get beat out by magic 4, or lose to fc df4. Kazuya has to be much more careful to get in on Lee or else he will get CH'd. When Kazuya gets in, it doesn't end there because his moves can be stepped too like you said. But what makes it dumb is that you have good get off moves like magic 4, D3 since it crushes highs, DF1 which also evades highs sometimes, and a punch parry. Most of Kazuya's high mids are punches, so doing punch parry isn't bad here. If you side walk left Kazuya a lot when he tries to pressure you, he has to start realigning and that's where those buttons come in. Kazuya player has to think way more offense until they can get the 50/50 vortex going. When Lee is trying to poke up Kazuya, the only thing he has look for is D1+2, DF2, and 112. He gets a big reward for D1+2 and DF2, but D1+2 is reactable and DF2 can be punished with acid rain up close. Now Lee isn't the best at pressuring to begin with, so your best bet is to keep playing keep out because that's the only way how a Kazuya player can get started on Lee.

[@bansheejack7567]

thank god somebody else said this sh*t i would write this out too but i didnt think anybody would read a Essay explaining it

[@jonteguy]

Yeah but a ton of characters can punish his lows. Lows in general are pretty risky in T7 due to parries. I'm actually glad T8 changes how good parries are. Like, spamming lows in Tekken 7 is just bad overall so no Lee is going to do that a ton. Just for some poke every now and then.

[@inconsiderateraccoon2345]

agreed@@jonteguy

[@inconsiderateraccoon2345]

yea i had time that day lol@@bansheejack7567

[@chucklos391]

TMM knows Tekken very well as he's been playing for years. He can analyze and articulate the technical details and matchups of Tekken.

[@mariamontalvo3717]

This is why mainman is the best Tekken youtuber, best info, guides, updates and gameplay. Comoared to other Mainman has done way more the franchise than profesional players ever will, best tekken player to me and he doesnt need a championship title to demonstrate that

[@jonwhite549]

He doesn’t get as much recognition as other lee mains but I definitely watch fightinggm

[@Brainzzz123]

I commented on this video 2 weeks ago, where I made many of the same points TMM made. All I got was him half reading my comment and laughing at me. He's a great player, but I wouldn't expect any mature response from him, TMM.

[@Lobothemainman23]

Laugh is the easy way out when he has no real argument.

[@IzNebula]

The dude may be a great Lee, but outside of that he's a clown with a piss poor attitude and terrible takes.

[@Brainzzz123]

@@Lobothemainman23 unfortunately. He did double down on Kazuya being able to i13 electric punish him tho. So I guess he really does believe that that is a viable option

[@Lobothemainman23]

@@Brainzzz123 He must be a total idiot then. Someone needs to ask him to provide proof of it happening in games.

[@PSNDarkSouL]

@@Brainzzz123we’re talking the top 1% of players who can actually do this stuff. He doesn’t play online or care about casuals who don’t compete. People are completely missing the point and forget he is a tournament player.

[@Kaztrofy]

I admire TMMs ability to be respectful cause this was one lousy attempt to argue against him.

[@deegee6062]

It's a weird one for someone with such a competitive history to make these sorts of statements, I'm a Lee main and it sounds to me like he's just describing Lee's flaws in general, none of that stuff is unique to Kazuya (except twin pistons)

[@faptimoolactos7423]

Imagine being one of the best Lee's out there just to have takes like these .

[@finnT_Tekken]

The 13 frame electric punish really was such a selfdiss, i have personally only seen it once in tournament in t7 in years. And never seen it ingame myself. Its so difficult that its not even worth mentioning and makes him immediately look unbelievable, which he is not because he is a legend , but he should have stressed this is literally only on paper.

[@Pervy]

I think most of you didn't get the point. (including MMSWE) I don't believe he was saying Kazuya is a bad matchup for Lee. He was also not saying that Lee is an easy matchup for Kazuya. He was simply stating that Lee is not a terrible matchup for Kazuya. In other words... it's totally playable.

[@KirraZirra]

You could be right that he is inferring that. In my opinion I don't believe that is the case just based on his arguments.

[@Chaoblahippo]

he confirmed on his recent stream that is what he meant@@KirraZirra

[@KirraZirra]

@praisemidir Ok. Yea in tmms response video I didn't really see that argument, but if he provided clarification at a later point (video or stream) I would coincide. I always like these theory crafting debates personally.

[@Badguy10472]

CHRISHINTHELEE Deserves a mention as the best Lee. He's the one who discovered the Hitman Shuffle. I need him Acknowledged.

[@BEDCORN]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@memebump7612]

ChrishinTheLee beat FightingGM in a first to 20.

[@AZYG4LYFE]

Whilst he made HMS shuffle more known, it was actually discovered and demonstrated in much older iterations. This is the earliest I remember: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qpachXp6gaymqJI Ref 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXfIqJl4etmhjpI However older series have had this demonstration since T4 (if I can find the video, I'll edit and reference here) Because we now have b+3+4 powercrush, the manouever options are much more limited with the only fast option being with HMS+1~f~D/B~HMS etc

[@PyroInferno110]

I dont even mess with GM like that, but GM and other lee players were doin that before Chrishin bruh lol

[@AZYG4LYFE]

That's what I was saying (incase you misunderstood), just trying to spread historic awareness@@PyroInferno110

[@RationalMinded]

Had the pleasure of playing his Lee. I got mopped. Obviously he's great with the character and has a strong understanding of the game in general - as one would expect from a pro player. Just odd that his counter arguments are theoretical and not about what does work in real time matches.

[@sanic_play7154]

It was just so fun to watch, that two great Tekken players explaining why are their characters are a pain in the ass!😂😂😂

[@Danish10xHD]

Given his accolades and achievements with Lee not just on this game but past TEKKEN titles too! It’s undisputed fact that GM has the best Lee in the world.

[@Danish10xHD]

@@ffa4181yeah alright bud, show me which accolades and tournaments wins Father has? 🤣🤣🤣

[@praxiann7615]

Father is pretty bad imo@@ffa4181

[@WASHED_UP_NPC]

This feels like an epic rap battles of history for me

[@TheGreatAustino]

I like to imagine that these players both lost a deathmatch to each others respective characters

[@bryanxo2489]

The matchup essentially comes down to who can get a life lead and play turtle, since both their engage tools are awful

[@KeithKillingly]

It’s kinda interesting how someone good can still have bad takes. Like it makes me wonder if these players simply have above average reaction time or something and that’s it.

[@emogaysasuuke]

Whatever gm was smoking before recording his video must've been some good shit

[@patrickimperial579]

If "never let bro cook again" was a person, it'd be fighting gm 😂

[@Aroused_Pineapple]

"He has other safe lows!" "All lows are unsafe because of parry, getting to launch isn't a big deal" lol

[@UltimateBallaPOM]

The block stun and df2 perfect electric isn't fully frame perfect. You can press forward for up to about 5f and then the down and down-forward as just frames. Try it out on the CBT if you're one of those with hands. TJU doesn't have a buffer period and it has to be perfect 16f every time. It's around the same difficulty as perfect electric since you go from one direction to the opposite. Taunt Mach Punch is arguably the hardest 2 sequence move in the game. If you're legit doing 13f electrics then you should be able to do this since it's 1f slower. Sergei Mazter doesn't do all the theoretical things TMM and FGM spoke about and he's the highest performing Mishima.

[@keeps-42]

Love how this entire response boils down to "you lose as Kazuya only if you're bad," "you can punish on block," and "Lee has weaknesses." Every point is either too universal and ends up not being Kazuya-specific, unrealistic due to the scenarios where certain counterplay shows up (you have to be in your opponent's head frame 1 to hit some of these not even considering EWGF punish), or just irrelevant due to it not appearing/being used incorrectly in the context of the matchup. It doesn't make any points FOR Kazuya, just random heresay to believe because top player. Unfortunately, people aren't as predictable as one string and will apply ways to force mistakes throughout any game, set, and match. Edit: "Lee can get mixed up by Kazuya the mix character." ok

[@leemassey6054]

Both of them say some ridiculous shit about this match up. But saying pewgf is harder than taunt jet upper is the most ridiculous. Also, the downplay of mains in fighting games is an epidemic and isn’t necessary. It’s tekken. Every character has bullshit that is hard to deal with. Tekken 7 is very well balanced in character strength overall. Yes some characters are harder to use than others but if you have good execution then you can win with any character. It’s ok if you don’t have good execution bc there are characters that don’t require heavy execution. And you’re a scrub if you lose and blame it on “easy mode character.” Nah, player. It’s your fault you lost.

[@bansheejack7567]

block punish PEWGF is harder then taunt jet upper by a mile but i could see a argument for TJU vs DF2 PEWGF

[@BullC6]

If you are eating too many hellsweep mixups and you struggle with side walking it means you either don't know your opponent's timing or give him too many frames...remember that Lee has an 11f M4 if your opponents likes to go for hellsweep mix everytime he's a bit plus. I main Gigas, get launched on my only +frame low and can't step hellseep mix almost entirely and I would still take on a Kazuya anyday with him over Lee who pretty much has a perfect poke, counter hit and keepout game with crouching 50/50 that's completely BS at the wall.

[@jonteguy]

I'm calling it now. He's going to find one clip of a tournament player punishing hop-kick with PEWGF and say you can do it because it happened once in tourney and never again. One outlier is going to be his whole argument I promise you.

[@skwadboss]

This sounds like 2 top players sayin Hey your flowchart beats my flowchart! But in reality at the highest level they both have tools to deal with each other and do BIG damage on good reads.

[@yuyevon1698]

all of his point can be applied to every characters in the game

[@aryanshyam8933]

Punishing 13 f with electric every time is pure perfection And i dont know many people who have perfected him even in pro scene

[@jimdino77]

BATTLE OF THE DOWNPLAYERS lmao... only way to settle this is for them to go first to 10, with both of them trying their hardest to lose on purpose. Only then will we know who is the worst character in the game

[@Not_J_69420]

I love these videos Responding to response videos

[@Toto_04]

At this point they are “arguing” with you just to be in a video

[@sondertekken]

All this happened because one one day in chat, I asked TMM what was kazuya's worst matchup. Sorry Adrian-san D:

[@reng.2588]

His arguments are pretty theoretical and not on real time. It's almost his doing a slippery slope and a strawman.

[@endlesscrusade]

Oooooo I bet you feel so special, just had to mention it right?

[@ThePaoOfTooh]

TLDR: "the reason the match up is difficult is because my character is trash"

[@skShahter]

not every character can do 2 jabs into powercrush and recover to duck

[@Iseeyou9657]

The amount of coping and seething on both sides is hilarious.

[@belowaveragegamer8612]

Interesting. At least we have a discussion. Theory fighting is dull but I learned some counter strategies there. Thanks.

[@nizmei8052]

Punishing what you just recorded seems quite easy, I need to agree that in this instance Lee is easy to counter

[@bansheejack7567]

i absolutely hated when GM said that FF+4 and magic 4 are hard read moves No they are not both are safe on block and you can throw them out alot more then kazuya's df+2 or D+1+2. he talked in the video as if you can check for FF+4 with df2 thats Stoopid df2 isnt a safe mid counterhit launcher you can just throw out.

[@Xengard]

holy shit i have a lot of respect for fightinggm but maybe he isnt explaining properly because his points are so dumb. as tmm says most of the stuff he says is universal, not just because of kazuya's specific moves or matchups i mean all he is saying is that kazuya players are patient and not smashers thats why its not a bad matchup. like what?

[@MrDamojak]

For real. The only valid argument he made was the one about Lee's lows being worse against Kazuya than against most characters. The rest of the arguments have nothing to do with Kazuya.

[@cougarcp]

Did we just watch a FGM video that reestablishes that Lee Chaolan has to play neutral???

[@roamalot3000]

That Tekken 8 mod is sick

[@r0364]

The only thing that i cant imagine is, 13f electric was like normal day to that. (Yeah if you using keyboard, not suprise)

[@hydrowolf363]

16:41 So this is what the Swe stands for!

[@shex9]

I saw it once in a tournament kazuya blocked a -13 move from yoshi and punished it with an electric

[@naiiin6949]

Heihachi doesn't have a 13f electric though, does he? Or am i misremembering sth here...

[@shex9]

@@naiiin6949 no he doesn’t it’s 14 at perfect input also I feel it’s harder to do at max speed than kazuya as he doesn’t have multiple inputs for it. Kazuya’s i13 electric is done by f/n/df2 or f/d/df2 unlike the normal one which is f/n/d/df2 so it’s basically 3 inputs rather than 4 and that’s what allows it to be faster by 1 frame if done perfectly.

[@yoyoprofessorxavier]

i recognize GM has skill, but his takes are subpar and his attitude as well usually.

[@Chaoblahippo]

i disagree. the ego is what makes him hold himself to a high standard and do better

[@yoyoprofessorxavier]

@praisemidir there's a saying that the master is always a student. better to be humble. you can see your mistakes better that way.

[@Chaoblahippo]

yes i agree. but it can be done while having ego still. just requires a harder to maintain mentality . like andrew tate says. when you have an ego you are despreate to cover your mistakes to back it up. so the kind of ego you protect and try to back up, not just ego for the sake of it@@yoyoprofessorxavier

[@yoyoprofessorxavier]

@@Chaoblahippo you immediately invalidate any opinion you have by quoting andree tate. a misogynistic pile of garbage that you probably worship or something. no point in discussing with types like you fella.

[@zach4281]

that's the trouble with fightinggm. I remember watching a tutorial from him a while ago where he said, post buff, that lee can't keep out at the highest level and has to rush down. And because he has bad tools to get in, he's bad. As if his keepout and screen control doesn't already let him get in. Dude's really good but he's as negative as any green rank dvj player. He talks like he just needs to pick a more straightforward top tier lmao

[@whydoyoukeeptalking]

Hes a great Lee player but i gotta agree with TMM more. Not a kazuya killer tho but Lee can give a lot of people a hard time.

[@kennecrx4373]

I know this video is older now on an obsolete game but this was probarly the saddest display a pro player ever put on because he was salty. This man is really mad that kazuya can do absolutely anything, like huh? Wow he has a 12f punish, take it away immediatly. It's like watching a redditor have his daily breakdown after a bad ranked sesh.

[@Diaboloshadowkill]

10:39 I highly doubt that, Lee has the worst jab range in the game, and you have no idea how many times Lee's jab don't reach after blocking an unsafe move :(

[@inkredibill6352]

FightingGM is literally so easy to make fun of.

[@Chaoblahippo]

try it in the same room as him : D

[@bobcabatbat658]

What he's saying against Kazuya countering Lee can be pretty much said to any other character, that's just how tekken is played. LOL

[@JamalTaylor-uu3oz]

POINTLESS ARGUMENT ( It depends On The Player knowledge And Motorskills Memory, REFLEXES, MEN. ENDURANCE, ATTENTIVENESS, PATIENTENCE - REAL WORLD SKILLS !!!!!

[@SalvadorSTMZ]

Fighting GM uses a ps2 controller and a ps2 webcam. How dare he make lackluster arguments against one of the best tekken players to ever walk the planet?

[@fightinggm]

I stream on pc and use a logitech camera. No need to try and shit on my stream just to try and be funny

[@iguessDillon]

@@fightinggm stay strong through the trolls gm, ur stream is fine

[@Chaoblahippo]

stay strong@@fightinggm

[@pinhead9304]

@@fightinggm dude your streams are wack though ngl. u use a 5 dolla mic and a PS eyetoy webcam. also you never played Arslan in tournament but phidx did and beat him

[@smugaladdin8372]

Half his points aren't kazuya specific at all. Almost any character can beat lee with good movement, or switching up their moves

[@sourcesauce]

gm has always been weird lol. good player.

[@denrao2420]

One of the hardest characters to play in the game regardless TMM's point stands Lee annihilates Kazuya

[@IzNebula]

It's clear to me that GM has just a bloated ego, and considering the comments of people blowing it up even more, I can see why. He is WAS the best Lee in the world, but that's no longer the case nowadays. Idk, who may be the best Lee now, but I can say with confidence it isn't him. In his eyes, Lee is weak vs everyone. Recognizing your character's strength and weaknesses is a sign of an unbiased opinion, this take was so such a biased and poor take lol. I might not be nearly as good, but I recognize Lee's strengths, as well as his weaknesses.

[@xlegendary_leex_1058]

As his former rival, agree with GM. 👍

[@WunjoYT]

8:33 pain

[@PcQuilLE]

Everybody saying their character is weak. TMM thinks kaz is weak, K-wiss also thinks hwoarang is weak. Lol

[@NextGenBluePro]

He doesn’t think Hwao is weak, that’s just a joke

[@TheHollowFace]

Fightinggm is a bald washed up has been, TMM still got his hair #tmm swagger

[@memebump7612]

Since Fighting GM lost to Chrishin the Lee doesn't that make Chrishin the better Lee?

[@enginemuseum5807]

I wouldn’t debate that he may be a better Lee, but mirror matches don’t decide who the better player is. You can be good against your own character and bad against the rest. GM has more results than Chrishin.

[@Yokoso-kj7ij]

Mirror matches are weird... Jimmyjtran for example lost the mirror Bryan match to AcuMajor, Knee and Inkognito, but he's still widely regarded as the best Bryan among these players.

[@KazuyaKai923]

Yo, do you guys remember when lil majin called launch Leroy balanced?? This is kinda similar to that claim NGL 😂😂 This is one of the worst Kazuya's matchups that likely in order go: Lili, Steve, lee

[@Jin_is_poor_mans_kazuya]

Maybe fighting GM got drunk before saying all of this sh*t and yes duelist actually said something very similar about Kazuya's worst matchups

[@IzNebula]

Couldn't agree more, I think those 3 characters are just strong vs Mishimas in general. This is coming from a Lee main myself. Not as experienced or remotely as good as GM, but even I can see what TMM said is true.

[@eckysgaming]

To recap this man here thought all Kazuya main are god and can easily do a i13 Electric launch punish in a real match after blocking a -13 move Yeah good luck doing that Also he says Lee have bad movement while casually stepping an electric at -1 that not all characters can

[@hso5485]

Get him tmmswe you tell that Lee playing player

[@mariamontalvo3717]

No one likes when their favorite character's bullshit is called out

[@hydrowolf363]

I'mYourFather > FightingGM imo. They need to do a ft10 though

[@JustN0tMe]

Tf are you on about 😅

[@Danish10xHD]

Which tourneys has father won? What accolades does he hold in comparison to GM? I’ll wait.

[@ronoronoronorono]

@@Danish10xHD Father went pretty far in recent evos but yeah, GM has more achievements. Father never claimed to be the best Lee in the world either, in fact he even said he just plays Tekken as a hobby since he has a full time job

[@TK--ce6hp]

​@@ronoronoronoronodidnt he also get married sometime ago? Man truly is a chad

[@ronoronoronorono]

@@TK--ce6hp Not sure if married but he has a girlfriend yes

[@aavavertu229]

Change my mind: m4 is stronger than electric in t7.

[@mistaflexshot4698]

Im your Father be like : Hold my beer

[@JustN0tMe]

I'm a GM fan, he's not totally wrong. Yes, Kazuya can launch most of Lee's lows(TMM is wrong "Lee doesn't need to use lows" is one of the reasons he says Bryan is hard, since he has to rely on the slow hatchet kick to open people) On the other hand, Lee has so many moves that evade EWGF... I'd say that the matchup is quite even(because Kazuya can quickly approach with wavedash and pressure the turtling Lee player 6:14 You don't see it because hopkick is a single move, the WS 2 is a tell that people are used to react to, instead of ducking, you press F. 16:00 C'mon TMM, you know that's not it😅 Edit: TJU is harder than CH Perfect Electric😅 I'm a Bryan main and only did 3 TJU in practice and 2 in matches(the opponent was AFK, so it's not impressive) I'm not a Mishima player and did it over 10 times. Both are based on execution+timing but I feel like the timing is harder on TJU. I play on pad, don't know if that matters

[@bansheejack7567]

i could see a argument for TJU being harder then DF2 PEWGF but not BLOCK punish PEWGF. you dont see many kazuya players PEWGF hopkick because its absurdly hard.

[@G-R-IE-IE-D]

@@bansheejack7567agreed, literally the best Kazuyas/Mishima players don’t/can’t do this. It’s kind of crazy how people are trying to make this seem like Mishimas are legit punishing stuff like that lol. Knee, Choksae, boa, real Devil CDP it don’t matter the best to ever do it are not pulling this off consistently.

[@DungVu-xg2kn]

Wooooow best lee says “ lee has to get in” best way to do keep out i guess woohoo. Pado ftw ngl

[@Jaydubb1031]

I never really cared to watch fighting gm since I’m more of a Christinthelee kind of guy, but man I didn’t know gm had such absurd takes

[@happ0bapp0]

8:29 NOT ONE PUNISH ITS TIME TO GET ON TRT ADRIAN

[@fancyhermit7]

At least it's not some random person ranting for 30 minutes, but a pro player is much better

[@Voxoono]

fightinggm wants a money match now, and he says you have to play lucky chloe, wtf?? when is this happening?

[@michaelklosinski2902]

Funny how the dude who mains a millionaire steals from the fgc

[@パンドーラー-y7m]

I think what dude was trying to say is lee isn't kaz worst matchup because kaz can win it with just being smart. He wasn't saying it's kazuya specific but was just responding to tmm silly take of Lee's ff4 "destroying" kaz electric because of high evasion. Fightinggm showed 2 ways of dealing with ff4, backdash or sidestep it and launch etc. btw if u eat a lot of ff4 you're just not playing good. I can think of tens other moves with better reach and tracking for same reward. Go online and try to abuse ff4 against good players, goodluck not getting launched from whiff or ss or crouch. Generally this statement of lee being worst kaz matchup is high copium cause as tmm said himself in video above, game on paper and real match are different. Yeah lee on paper has anti kaz tools but as soon kaz starts moving and is human, all the shit ain't that effective anymore

[@bullseye7721]

Imagine saying you can consistently punish 13f ewgf, lol. He was the best lee like 10 years ago or when, father and lee3 are at least playing in tourneys. That dude is just complaining about everything and can’t acknowledge some basic things. He is like 30+ y o but acts like he is 12.

[@kanwarpalgrewal7482]

Tmm forgot mirio

[@tidjane2001]

Fightinggm is better than mirio. He beat Arslan in f10

[@HoDoBoDo]

Miirio isn't a pro player, he's a content creator and streamer, he's still extremely good tho.

[@alanlegend6751]

I'd love to hear Miirio's thoughts on this though, unlike GM, he actually plays both Lee and Kazuya.

[@Kidame]

I don't question GMs skill, but he is low key coping.

[@doomhunter101]

After watching this video and your response to the Claudio video, its just baffled me to see how there are players at such high level that seem to lack such basic understanding of other characters beyond their own and the game in general. Both of these players made responses to your videos where they were certain you were in the wrong and had outlandish claims, yet both of them seemed to miss the mark completely on not only the points you made, but the reason for them. Also not to mention the ridiculous claim that Kazuya can simply EWG punish -13f moves at will. Most of the points fightinggm made in this video were not even specific to kazuya, just statements about how to counter Lee in general, like stepping or ducking. Any character can do these things. What makes a character matchup unique is the way the two characters interact with one anothers gameplans. Steve is a good example with how his B1 shutting down all of Kazuya's best and go-to options with zero risk. There is hardly any mention of why Kazuya specifically can supposedly beat Lee in gm's response, unlike how you actually pointed to the character-specific nuances bewteen the two in your original video. Its insane to me that gm, and the Claduio player made these video and didnt see how wrong and off-mark their points were. I wish more people took the time to explore the rest of the cast and actually learn how other characters besides their own tick. Thats the beauty of Tekken for me. So much complexity to each individual character and the matchups alone.

[@rezanugraha2335]

this move is -13, kazuya can launch punish that with EWGF most Kazuya players: punish with 1, 1, 2

[@Kjernekar]

Before watching the video, and as a, let's say "non TG" player, my first thoughts are that every single "worst matchup" for Kaz I've ever seen or heard of has not had any actuall basis in results on either pro level or below. every time I see "Steve is one of the worst for Kaz" i allways see him win or lose BARELY.

[@IzNebula]

It really depends on the caliber of player utilizing it. Just because it doesn't happen as often, doesn't mean it's true. Steve's tools are so good vs Mishimas by default, but it isn't a guaranteed win either.

[@Kjernekar]

All I know is b1 is good, what else really? >They both have 10f jabs, low parries are universal. Steves low punishment is abyssmal above 11f and he can't launch KAz's launch punishable moves. B1 contering hellsweep etc. is only relevant if they do it point blank at 0 frames each, and MANY other chars can CH the same no problem, so what makes Steve stand out? I'm genuinly curious. I want to know. Teach me.@@IzNebula

[@IzNebula]

@@Kjernekar His side step + sway gets kazuya's back everytime even with the added tracking to electric, this may be true for every character, but it's specially true vs Kazuya and other Mishima's due to their constant wave dashing, since they like to wave dash to realigning, but with sidestep into sway in the same direction their realignment doesn't work as well, it's just too much space covered in a short amount of time. As you mentioned B1 is extremely good, but not just as a counter at close range, but also as keepout due to it's safety and recovery, so even throwing it out at range is good and doing it as they come in wave dashing is good because they will rarely be able to punish.

[@Boss-_]

My opinion of FightingGM is simple, and not just based on this video he made: I can't believe somebody that good at Tekken can be that stupid