Best Undercoat for Miniatures When Using Contrast Colors & Washes

[@manjr]

I've come to a similar conclusion about painting with Contrast/inks/washes. I spray dark and drybrush white, but the exact process depends on the mini. Minis I'm planning on painting lighter will get a medium brown spray, while darker ones get a much darker brown. I will also drybrush heavier on faces or other areas that I want to come out brighter. These little adjustments will help with the harsh contrasts you get from a pure white drybrush over black. I also want to experiment with other base colors, such as a greyish-green under light skin tones for a verdaccio effect. Thanks for the video - great work!

[@gaminggeek241]

Do you like the brown rather than the black for shadowing? I'm worried it wouldn't look good for cooler colors like blue.

[@manjr]

@@gaminggeek241 I did a mix of Contrast white and purple wash over it, and it looked fine. I haven't tried a gray undercoat yet - maybe that would make a difference with cooler colors. I'll give it a shot!

[@Phsstpok]

@@gaminggeek241 I went for the citadel go to primers for contrast wraithbone and grey seer,,,using a toned down version for the shadowy areas (baneblade brown for wraithbone and dawnstone for grey seer) with a final vertical highlight with pallid witch flesh and white scar respectively. the resultes vary with the main color i use... wratihbone set seems better for "lively" creatures with warm colors like animals, leather and lots of skin.. while grey seer i found better for reptiles, rocks and other objects.

[@annoyingrequirement]

I just received Forbidden fortress from Amazon and really appreciate this video and the time you put into showing the different techniques. You deserve many more views... and some beers! Cheers!

[@gaminggeek241]

Hey, thanks so much! Hope you like the game as much as I do and get your minis painted quickly!

[@AlainHesp]

Thanks for this experiment ! i bought airbrush and contrast paint since several months, but i have not begin painting yet. I watched a lot of tutos, and searched for this kind of experiment : you have done it !

[@uglyduckling81]

Biggest problem with your zenithal is the speckalling which is a common problem when spraying white. You should try FW White Ink. It sprays nicely without any watering down, straight from the bottle, which has an inbuilt dropper in the lid. It's by far the best airbrush white as it doesn't really speckall much at all.

[@Jathom]

I find the Liquitex Titanium White ink to be superior to the FW white ink. For any other color FW (Daler-Rowney) is wonderful, but their white is lacking the same quality. Liquitex inks are also usually easier to find than Daler-Rowney inks.

[@uglyduckling81]

@E Lowe I've not tried liquitex since I got the FW and the jar is huge. Had zero spotting with FW though so if liquitex is even better I'd be open to trying it in 20-30 years when this one runs out.

[@gaminggeek241]

Thanks for the tip--will definitely try it since right now, I have to thin my white paint from Badger.

[@notreallydavid]

speckle / speckling Please kill me. All best.

[@TheRealRetroBeard]

The drybrush method looks much better to my eyes. I will have to try this. Thank you.

[@totalwarhammer6704]

Don’t turn the air off on the airbrush! Always keep the air going to help prevent it from clogging, and just add paint when you need to... at least that’s assuming it’s dual action, which I think the patriot is. Loved seeing your results otherwise!

[@Choom89]

Thank you for this, it's exactly what I was looking for!

[@tp6498]

I've decided to finally give contrast paints a try and have purchased about a dozen of them so far. I still need to buy a few more colors along with some spray primer then I can start painting my zombiecide minis. I plan on using only contrast paints for this project so stumbling upon this video was a blessing. Big 👍and a subscription from me. Thanks and stay healthy.

[@erikmerchant567]

Came for the Zenithal, but stayed for the Thundarr. Nice shirt : )

[@forouza1]

Perhaps priming with dark gray and a little more careful brushing of the white highlights could help improve the harsh contrast. Another tip. Zenithal highlight with off white (wraithbone) and go back and dry brush a little with pure white. It will further boost the highlights without overwhelming the darker areas.

[@gaminggeek241]

Those are some great tips!

[@tevk]

Great comparison! I don’t have an airbrush, but use rattle-can spray paint in two colors (dark grey and white) for zenithal

[@s7r49]

I was thinking zenithal with black and gray rattle cans, then lightly dry brushing white oil and pulling it across the gray and black to create a smooth gradient. pretty sure it'll work really well and be quite fast aside from letting the oil dry. It trips me out how few people use oils in minis. they are so easy to blend compared to acrylic.

[@Scubasgamecorner]

Ok.... this video is awesome , But that shirt is eerrrm AWESOME-ER

[@susanjensen5787]

I do like the black base then the airbrush white over that and I'm not a contrast paint painter I would maybe use on top of other paints a tad but to each there own way

[@GentleGiantDK]

Okay, so people have already suggested rattle can zenithal and even links to the Montana sprays that Marco uses in his video. And the Liquitex ink for the airbrush. So you already have more options to try out for more experiments. My only extra thing to add then is that it looks like you might be putting the contrast paints on a little too thin, hence why they look "pastelly" and doesn't give enough, well, contrast. It could just be the larger surface area of the Oni's skin, but you really need to put a good amount on, just like with washes, so it can pool appropriately in the recesses to create shadows/contrast. But great video! The airbrush zenithal models definitely looks the best. Whoops, one more thing. Instead of a stiffer brush, another option is doing the zenithal with more of a "drybrush" method using a much softer make-up brush, in the vein of the way Artis Opus does his videos (the drybrush brushes he uses are actually quite similar to certain make-up brushes, but much more expensive). You'll get a much smoother transition, closer to a spray zenithal, but it'll also add more time than spraying.

[@gaminggeek241]

Thanks for the tips, Claus! Will definitely continue my experiments. Someone else suggested using a softer brush for more graduated gradients. But I am abandoning the dry brushing technique because it adds too much time to the process.

[@GentleGiantDK]

@@gaminggeek241 Indeed, it's an additional time hog, especially when one has 100s of board game minis to get through. It might still be an option for those who don't have an airbrush or can't really use rattle cans (due to having to use them outdoors, but can't much of the year due to the weather), but it's going to be much slower going. Looking forward to more experiments!

[@doctorbandage]

Seems like a rattle can of white for the zenithal highlight would be a good compromise between the airbrush and brush on methods. You may need to splurge for a higher quality white than rustoleum though.

[@mikewawrzyniak8990]

Im gonna try black primer>airbrush grey zenithal>gloss varnish>diluted nuln oil>white drybrush(just edges), just for fun, great vid thou, ty

[@evanlindsey1100]

I've seen some videos talking about under painting, where a darker color is applied first, and then contrast is applied over that.

[@joelwebb4471]

Highly recommend Vallejo flow improver for air brush. It does 2 things, thins paint and helps keep paint from drying on your tip which causes clogs

[@gaminggeek241]

I bought some Vallejo paint thinner but not the flow improver. Do they do the same thing?

[@joelwebb4471]

@@gaminggeek241 they do the same thing, however flow improver won't dry as fast. This is a good thing in airbrushing because like I said it helps prevent your tip drying and clogging. Another way to clean your airbrush is to buy a gallon of simple green from home depot and take apart your airbrush and soak the parts in simple green in a plastic cup. It will eat all the paint off the parts and you just wipe with a paper towel after soaking over night

[@gaminggeek241]

@@joelwebb4471 I'm definitely going to try that--thanks for the tips!

[@calamari6213]

If you've ever seen the stuff painted by Mike of Epic Duck, I think the brushed on gives it an almost comic book style without taking hours. Maybe I'll dust off my knight Marvel Xmen and try it.

[@josechitty339]

If you can bare one more step. You could use a black wash after the zenithal with the airbrush. That gives you both the smooth transition and the detail linings

[@captnwinkle]

How do you wash with and airbrush? Just load it with say, nuln oil?

[@josechitty339]

@@captnwinkle yep, load it and give the model a thick coating of it so it pools in the recesses

[@GarryWButler]

What about rattle can zenithal?

[@neretharanthanael9130]

Kinda works the same, but you'll need to be careful because you can have more control with an airbrush vs cans

[@GarryWButler]

But he’s talking about speed. Yes it will take practice, but doing is in a zenithal prime with rattle can will allow him to bulk Prime. I definitely agree that airbrush would be superior. Either one is going to take a practice though.

[@jherazob]

Interesting results! One advantage of the airbrush for your zenithal that you're ignoring is the sheer speed of doing it in bulk for several figures at the same time. One on one the brush and the airbrush feel probably comparable, but try 20-30 at a time and the airbrush obliterates the alternative. It *will* have a learning curve but it's worthwhile. And since it's the same color you will only need to clean the airbrush once per lot. As for cleaning the airbrush, get a wash bottle, it does help a lot and makes it much faster and less annoying, here's a Vince Venturella video where he shows his method: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3ase6ZnmJmVqbM

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, definitely the airbrush is a LOT faster than brushing. And I agree that batch painting a lot of minis at once makes the airbrush worth it. Thanks for the link to Vince's video--will definitely take a look!

[@Cloudman572]

Thanks for the link. The cleaning was useful but the high level of thinning was my big take away- I use valejo air paint neat up to now.

[@kgoblin5084]

Actually, my method of applying that kind of highlight with a brush is to drybrush with a cheap makeup brush... which takes all of 2 to 3 seconds for a standard 28mm figure mini, plus fixed time delay to work the paint into the brush. Given the setup & cleanup time for an airbrush, I suspect it's probably about equivalent in speed, but superior in control. The real weakness with using a brush vs. airbrush is accurately recreating the zenithal effect IMO. Doing that with a brush requires discipline whereas it comes naturally with the zenithal by simply keeping the angle of the brush head to mini consistent.

[@falsehero2001]

Why not both? Air brush in a medium grey and then dry brush in white?

[@roberthermosillo5727]

Okay, you've convinced me to convert to the zenithal airbrush technique. Any cheap airbrush recommendations? Also, that basing looks Fantastic! I would be interested to see some basing comparison s in the future.

[@gaminggeek241]

I bought a cheap $15 airbrush from Harbor Freight and it wasn't worth it--little control and clogged up. That's why I ended up spending more and buying the Badger 105 amzn.to/2HlkSks. I haven't tried the cheaper sets you can buy on Amazon but maybe they would work better, especially since you don't need a ton of fine spray for zenithal. I have a list of links in the descriptions.

[@southpaw5483]

Is it OK to Dry Brush with white Primer Paint (i.e., Vallejo Surface Primer, Stynylrez, etc.) instead of white paint?

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, that would be perfectly fine!

[@alcovitch]

If you don't care about quality then Contrast is the way to go. You can burn through a ton of models. They will all look like they were done with water colors and lack depth, but they will be "done". I think contrast is ok as a tool for specific things or to use them as shades or technical effects, but to do an entire model that way, they always look like they were done with contrast.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yes, that is my first priority is to be able to paint about 200 minis a month for seven months. So this is an example of where quantity is a higher priority than quality.

[@sethpeterson8261]

Why not speed it up more by just using a spray can to zenithal? faster setup, easier to zenithal 10+ mini's at a single go (just tape them down to a sheet of cardboard, and no clean up at all.

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, I've actually tried that before and at least with Rustoleum 2X Ultracover brand, the spray is too strong and too much that the paint particulates are too big for minis. Maybe if there was a nozzle that could spray less of the paint out, it would work.

[@sethpeterson8261]

@@gaminggeek241 I agree about rustoleum to thick. I use Army Painter colored primers (or black) and Tamiya White (which is actually a light gray). An auto primer that works well is Dupli-Color, Automotive Primer Series, Sandable... in black it goes on thin. For brush on i use Stynlrez which was recommended to me as the best, but its the only brush on ive used so I can't compare it to Vallejo

[@robs9143]

It's looks to me like you aren't using enough contrast paint to get a good colour gradient, you want pooling in the recesses. Contrast can be used very effectively on marines as Jaun Hidalgo demonstrates in his excellent 'eavy contrast marines series: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b5SZkqNui91gqpo Another point from his videos is he uses a bonewhite undercoat rather than a pure white, which might be worth experimenting with!

[@debadwolf9727]

can always use rattle cans too instead of airbrush

[@gaminggeek241]

Yeah, check out my follow-up video where I do exactly that with Montana Gold rattle cans.

[@jheu781]

Woah, early slapchop.

[@anul6801]

Early slapchop was in the 80's...

[@trevorchadwick7649]

They need some kind of game for Thundarr!

[@gaminggeek241]

I would buy that game in a heartbeat!

[@jherazob]

@@gaminggeek241 as far as I know there's no game, but maybe this will help: www.alternative-armies.com/collections/ganesha-games-scifi/products/psy02-techno-barbarians

[@jherazob]

Decided to give a search and found another trio: interloperminiatures.com/miniatures/wasteland-wanderers/

[@gaminggeek241]

@@jherazob That's a dead-on Ookla!

[@Scubasgamecorner]

Also I think your colors would be more rich if instead of using a pure white for Zenithal use an off white like Pro Acryl Ivory or Army Painters Brain Matter Beige..just my 2 cents :)

[@gaminggeek241]

I would think off-white would mute the colors more--might need to experiment some with that.

[@GentleGiantDK]

@@gaminggeek241 Here's a guide made by the guy over at Tabletop Workshop, showing the whole range of contrast colours on 3 different primers (the Grey Seer and Wraithbone "contrast paint primers" and then Corax White) - there's a video about it too, linked in the document. One thing to keep in mind too is that the Grey Seer and Wraithbone primers are more satin-like, which allows the contrast paint to flow a bit easier and pool better than the more matte Corax White. Something to take into consideration. www.miniaturicum.de/service/Contrast%20Colours%20guide.pdf I think the difference between the light grey, the bone/beige and pure white is a bit more evident in these other comparison samples: boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/257496/contrast-paints-swatches

[@gaminggeek241]

@@GentleGiantDK Thanks for the links, Claus! Those are interesting. For my purposes for speed painting, I think the subtle differences aren't worth changing my base spray--I have used silver spray before to get a metallic color but other than that, I have stuck with white.

[@jparks6544]

You are entitled to your opinion. But I disagree with almost everything you said. Zenithal definitely IS worth the effort. And Air brush does NOT look the best. The brush method is the best for exactly where and what you want to focus on. But yes, if you are lazy, it's not for you. But then, if you don't care about a good paint job, being lazy is not going to get you good results anyway.

[@gaminggeek241]

As you are entitled to your opinion as well as priorities. Sounds like your priority is the quality of the paint job so you don't mind spending the extra time and effort to get the perfect undercoat. My priority is speed and getting as many minis painted as possible over quality since I have dozens of games' worth of minis to finish. That isn't laziness, it's differing priorities.