Bethesda's Awful Response To Doom Composer Mick Gordon's Accusations

[@YongYea]

Gonna wait and see if id Software/Bethesda present evidence that can refute Mick Gordon's claims, but this PR statement is not a good look for Bethesda. - 👟 Vessis early Black Friday sale is on now! Vessi is giving away a pair of socks of your choice to the first 100 shoes sold using my code SOCKSYONGYEA. Get your style and size you want now before they sell out! Check out their Early Black Friday sale at vessi.com/YONGYEA. Free shipping to CA, US, AU,JP, TW, KR, SGP. "Online Store" PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea TOP PATRONS [CIPHER] - Devon B [BIG BOSS] - Jonathan Ball [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Peter Vrba - Time Dragonlord [LEGENDARY] - BattleBladeWar - Theron Webb

[@ThatTomato19]

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[@Press_START360]

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[@AGuywhohasGoodTaste]

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[@JoshuaRM]

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[@RedFlame95]

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[@whoahanant]

Bethesda: This is an unjust attack against us Also Bethesda: Allows employees to make unjust attacks against people

[@emiami458]

That's microshaft for ya...

[@whoahanant]

For anyone who is looking to support Mick in a future endeavor I suggest the game Atomic Heart. He's making some music for that game I think it comes out in 2023.

[@xdjrunner]

InB4 Yuji Naka arrested And Ubisoft and Riot team-up to create AI harassment tools... What could pawssibly go wrong?

[@Exitium93]

@whoah an ant yea the "gameplay" looks good and would love to buy it. Although I've heard that production has been hellish and have heard rumors that the team or publisher has outright fabricated gameplay so who knows, hopefully its not another cyberpunk 2077 situation.

[@whoahanant]

@@Exitium93 I think that depends on what one considers "development hell" it's thrown around alot in every title now and clearly Doom suffered so severely from this that they couldn't even send Mick Gordon basic level design concepts to make music. So at minimum I'd assume Atomic Heart has sent Mick level designs. I think rather than a scam as people are claiming the game to be it'll probably just be a decent or average game rather than the hype of "next Bioshock". Also I think majority of people are already being scammed by AAA companies regardless. Atomic Heart took out multiplayer but majority of AAA games have taken out way more and then slowly attempt to add it in like 1 year later rather than launch. In the end I recommend people to not pre order any game or buy it on launch. If you're smart you wait like 3 days and read/watch a review. Has kept money in my pocket for years following this. They clearly start pre orders before they even have a product to sell.

[@MisterAnonymous1000]

"There's always two sides to a story." Bethesda is doing their absolute best to convince me otherwise.

[@vx345]

Marty's reddit post WAS Bethesda's "side of the story"

[@Sira_Kackavalj]

We already saw both sides of the story

[@Malhonn]

its called damage control, what bethesda is doing, or trying to do at least.

[@DotDusk]

There are always two sides and Bethesda is the wrong one. 🤣

[@ProsecutorValentine]

Their track record with previous third party studios and other contractors or even original founders of Bugthesda always were telling me their side is more often than not rotten to the core.

[@shadowsage2636]

"Guys, don't harass us with unfair attacks, only WE can do that" -Bethesda

[@lordkaijux5262]

"You can't be mean to my Waddle Dees! Only I can be mean to my Waddle Dees!"

[@consciouspresence5880]

@@lordkaijux5262 It is not about 2 entities being mean to the same thing - they are being mean to each other, which is more than 1 - or to more than one thing.

[@consciouspresence5880]

@@ej8476 I blame communism

[@ken.7019]

@@consciouspresence5880 Where did that come from

[@consciouspresence5880]

@@ken.7019 The darkest corners of the Earth where people don’t know up from down and left from right.

[@animetrashamvs]

Marty: *points finger at Mick Gordon* Mick Gordon: *breaks down in detail why that’s not true* ID Soft: *points finger back with increased intensity*

[@MK7219000]

I'm picturing it as that meme with the two women angrily pointing at the cat

[@justingoers]

pointing intensifies

[@cdsatcher]

Everyone else: *points fingers back with ripping & tearing intent*

[@mat5669]

Violent and menacing Ace Attorney finger pointing. Mick present evidences, ”cornered” soundtrack start playing.

[@nobleneed]

ID thinks it’s the spiderman pointing meme, but really its the woman pointing at cat meme

[@Cynsham]

Bethesda: "This is an unjustified attack against us." Also Bethesda: Conveniently ignores and doesn't even acknowledge the fact that Marty made completely unsubstantiated accusations and intentionally and almost irrepairably damaged Mick Gordon's reputation as a composer through his rambling, nonsensical reddit post.

[@DGmDhdamarym]

I hope mick takes this to court and the community rallies. I'd donate to his trial just to see Bethesda be forced to do the right thing

[@CordovanSplotchVT]

Ignored? Their main demands was to let their unjustified defamatory attack stand in perpetuity. They are actively and knowingly maintaining it.

[@superactivitylad]

@@DGmDhdamarym unfortunately bethesda just has more money than all of us who would take Mick's side put together. and money decides who wins (by stalling the longest).

[@robbyrhodes4572]

@SuperActivityLads Bethesda doesn’t need money. They are slowly losing it. We cannot always win, but we must fight back.

[@PapaP86]

@@DGmDhdamarym Seems like Mick could definitely have a solid defamation case here.

[@Tyranzor64]

Mick took 2 YEARS to collect the receipts and prove his point. Bethesda: waa he was rude

[@CookyMonzta]

And I'll bet that Mick has even more that he hasn't made public, knowing that Bethesda would respond in a temper-tantrum manner after his first evidence dump. [Yes; I expect Mick to release even more evidence if it becomes necessary.]

[@loreaver3882]

Classic harrsment deflection

[@Tyrany42]

If this is how Bethesda treats their big name composer, I have to wonder how they treat the rest of their workers.

[@johnlouisbautista7563]

Weelll I assume absolutely terrible or worse

[@Khasym]

I can't say I'm surprised. It's right out of the Corporate Courtroom Playbook: make the OTHER guy try and sue you, so they have the burden of proof. Bethesda can drag this case out for years if Gordon tried to sue them, and have probably torched anything that implicates senior staff in any abusive actions.

[@StrikeWarlock]

It's a poor attempt because Mick has popular support at the moment, this potentially means this cancer will also end up affecting Bethesda IPs outside of Id.

[@Silamon2]

It seems Gordon has plenty of evidence of his own against them so hopefully if it comes to that he will be able to win.

[@Khasym]

@@Silamon2 Nah. He's got evidence that Marty Stratton's a piece of garbage. But that's a far cry from evidence proving a specific charge brought up in court. Bethesda is being an ass backing Marty, but they're doing it the right way: they want Gordon to flub in court, so they can then trumpet how "right" they were to part ways with Gordon: if he can't prove a lawsuit, they'll twist the narrative into that proving HE was the problem, not Stratton. It sucks royally, but corporations have lived and died by how well they play this form of brinksmanship.

[@notownself]

@@StrikeWarlock This is a self made problem for Bethesda because it should have been obvious as time went on in the process just by going through the email logs, provided they weren't deleted, that this guy was an asshat that was going to earn the company lawsuits and products of reduced quality. They could have replaced him with someone of similar level from one the groups within Bethesda and with how big that company is there is no way there isn't someone.

[@Khasym]

@@notownself Oh no doubt. Sad to say, but in a LOT of American Corporations, there are jerks and assholes, who not only acquire notable positions, but MAINTAIN them in the face of complaints or accusations. I haven't worked outside of the US, so I can't say if this problem is global. But I've dealt with several people in positions of power who have easily abused the TINY amount of authority they were given, because they knew management couldn't or wouldn't fire them. The same reasons the American goverment bailed out corporations that were "Too big to allow to fail" is the same kind of logical reasoning that keeps these leeches in their positions.

[@kvproductions2581]

Mick: I was lied about and abused, here's piles of evidence Bethesda: We disagree with the evidence

[@ArDeeMee]

We HaVe WhAt We WoUlD lIkE tO cAlL aLtErNaTiVe FaCts.

[@burnttoast26]

This also calls into question Obsidian's statements on New Vegas' release state being their fault. If Bethesda were willing to push hush money and blame shifting with Mick, who else have they?

[@leitregjok2830]

Yes! And they wouldn't ever be able to talk about it because of these ridiculous gag orders!

[@RvnWolf]

Hmm really? It's the best fallout game I played from obsidian the other release sucked like 4

[@VendettaSoundtracks]

I thought it was common knowledge that the New Vegas release shenanigans were fully on Bethesda? I remember there being an uproar about Obsidian not being paid their bonuses because they were 1 Metascore off of their contracted target, and also that Bethesda only gave Obsidian like 6 months to make the game?

[@_Cetarial]

@@VendettaSoundtracks18 months, but yes, you’re right.

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

@@VendettaSoundtracks Yeah the release stuff was on Zenimax. Likely because they saw a smaller studio and a side game.

[@questingmoo]

Far as I've heard from an employee, it all falls on Marty for starting it. Bethesda was going to just pay mick what was owed, but Marty went on his tirade and refused everything, so now Bethesda has backed him up since he's running Id

[@ThatGuy-ky2yf]

Marty should at the very least be demoted. Someone like Hugo Martin (but with more business exp) needs to be in that position where there's cohesion between the business and creative sides of Id/Bethesda so payment/deadline fiascos like this don't happen!

[@targard.quantumfrack6854]

@@ThatGuy-ky2yf demoted to janitor, yeah. This guy shouldn't see a management job before a 10 years retreat in a tibetan monastery.

[@leimpactjump7255]

But then I ask, why was Marty so ready to crap all over Mick? Did he just shift all ofthe blame on him for his own ( or maybe bethesda's) terrible mismanagment? Or maybe it's some sort of personal vendetta?

[@asthmeresivolisk3129]

@@leimpactjump7255 Based on scraps of evidence I think it got personal in Marty's mind. Mick went completely around him to Bethesda at multiple points to move things along. And if there's one thing you don't do to people with massive egos is go around them. Marty likely saw this as a personal sleight and decided from that point onward he was going scorched earth on Mick.

[@gabudaichamuda2545]

@@ThatGuy-ky2yf DEMOTED? No, fire his ass and make him as destitute as Elon made the idiots at Twitter.

[@dawndishsoap3398]

I feel like the reason they don't offer any evidence to the public is because its flimsy, contrived and/or hearsay and would be picked apart and eviscerated by the community on the public stage. It's been proven time and time again that if one entity has vastly more money than another in the court of law you don't need the best evidence, you just need time to bleed the other person dry.

[@AkarZaephyr]

Which speaks how much justice is worth in US, when it's the money that is the deciding factor of who can win regardless of factual guilt.

[@danestrenton]

I believe they haven't released anything yet due to the fact they haven't finished fabricating any "counter-evidence" yet. Corporations period are the root of all evil in the modern world but gaming corps are a special breed, they need to crash and burn first.

[@MarkLitchfield]

Anyone who has worked in software or any corporate environment has worked for a person like Marty. It's not difficult for many of us to put ourselves in Mick's position (as he described it in his response) and pray to all known deities for "revenge". We've all also worked with inconsistent people as Marty's reddit people described Mick. However, over all the time Doom has had Mick guiding or contributing to the soundtrack, this has never been a description used by anyone ever to describe Mick.

[@torymann248]

Unless you know what you're doin technically if played right you're court cost even over years can even be nothing if you're proven you're case beyond a reasonable doubt other words if you proven you're innocent with irrefutable evidence you can make the other party pay for everything

[@ArDeeMee]

@@torymann248 You still have to pay upfront for all those years and hundreds of hours of attorney fees.

[@TheRPGenius]

Yeah, there's always 2 sides to a story. And historically, when that story is about Bethesda, those 2 sides are "Bethesda was in the wrong" and "Oh wow, Bethesda was way more in the wrong than we even thought."

[@PotatoeChief]

Bethesda really said "don't believe Mick, but we won't provide the 'evidence' we have to refute him."

[@patrickc.6183]

Exactly! They need to cite evidence to support any claims made against Mick.

[@Snoogen11]

It's literally corporate speak for: "just trust me bro..."

[@StripedJacket]

“Don’t believe Mick we have evidence” Evidence: Trust me bro

[@defaulted9485]

They went full "Source, I made it the f-ck up!" route and thinks it's Skyrim or FO76 where we can pickpocket people in daylight. Guess they chose the [Intelligence 4, Speech 2] dialogue option thinking the stats wont matter after they fired Obsidian after Fallout: New Vegas.

[@Knottypine79]

Literally wrote: to disclose in an appropriate venue as needed. -- I don't see a problem with that, seems a professional way to put it to be honest instead of just throwing around information that people may misinterpret.

[@jaegermonster9549]

And while Mick Gordon will now go down in history as one of the greatest music composers for games, Marty is at best immortalized as a legendary asshole. Congrats, GG.

[@honey3762]

If an employer ever says “this guys was difficult to work with” it always means “he wouldn’t be pushed around in every way we wanted to bend him”

[@AGuywhohasGoodTaste]

Honestly, Bethesda was so vague with this statement. Mick Gordon deserves better, I hope the best for him.

[@BourbonJRA]

I mean, what are they supposed to say within a few hours? Maybe they will wait 2 and a half years for their response and we’ll get the full story.

[@Nopquar]

@@BourbonJRA it took them like a day or two to come up with that insanely shitty statement

[@Aereto]

Only way to do that is buy games and songs he made, even if the games aren't to your taste, from people who treat contractors right.

[@Ebonheart2319]

@@BourbonJRA They don't have to wait out a non disparagement NDA. Thats why Mick sat on this so long. Its also why they wanted to throw a laughably small moneybag to finish him off.

[@luizguilhermeolivera3303]

Man I love Mick's work, hope he gets out of this and may justice be achived.

[@KL53986]

Ye its another big fish eating small fish.

[@danielportillo1349]

Are you gonna play attomic hearts? It has mick on it sooo it's instantly adds value 😆

[@sting7789]

I agree though. I never beat eternal but I love Doom 2016 the music really made the game. He's the John Williams to these games.

[@tykayneroberts4513]

I will never forget the first time I heard Rip and Tear, I proceeded to crusade so hard Hell closed it's gates not to keep the demons in, but to keep me out.

[@lareolanKFP]

The only way there can be justice is if people stop buying Bethesda products, otherwise the legal system supports the scumbags with the deep pockets and multi-million dollar bribes.

[@Watermelon_Enthusiast]

i feel so bad for mick, you hate to see it but im glad he came out with a mountain of evidence and made an absolute joke out of marty

[@Operational117]

And yet Bethesda acts like they have the high ground. In my eyes, the case is already decided: Bethesda is guilty of defamation of the worst kind. Mick’s evidence is beyond compelling, and Bethesda now has a monumental burden of proof.

[@BulletSponge178]

Marty doesn't need much help. This and the Denuvo debacle shows he's a bad faith actor in a lot of ways.

[@eskimo4130]

@@EyeXombie wut, it's called a genre for a reason

[@laszlonagy02]

@@EyeXombie you are new to metal music I see.

[@quackodemon9822]

@@EyeXombie And Trent Reznor stole his entire style from Skinny Puppy. I love NIN and am not shitting on him, but that's a pretty wack point.

[@fallenmorningstar9224]

I'm actually surprised Marty was trusted so much with Micks stellar reputation before Eternal. Killer instinct is all you need to see and a wonderful interview of how he made the music for that game to know that all Marty said was definitely fishy from the start. I'm glad Mick is standing up for himself because he is a musical God and deserves far better then what Marty gave him and treated him like.

[@justinstoll4955]

If Marty doesn't get fired for this whole situation I have no faith that Activision will be cleaned up when Microsoft acquires them because what Marty did was f****** disgraceful

[@Kratos263]

I thought you were going to say Activision was going to try hiring him since he'd fit right in xD

[@CMONCMON007]

Yeah lets see how Microsoft deals with this. If they don't, they're as scummy as well

[@cjnelstein-beddingfield1738]

This is just sad, it sounds like Mick literally tried to mend their relationship even if there are things he did wrong that we don't know about, it shows he just a human who loves what he does and tried his best. Then there's Bethesda: "No YoUr WaY wRoNg WiTh LiEs".

[@nicholasmorgan7609]

Bethesda went to shit a long time ago

[@defaulted9485]

There are rumors that Mick waited two years because it would be three years since he signed the NDA, its expiry time. Considering how thorough his receipt is, I'm really sure he has lawyers and overwhelming amount of not yet disclosed evidence for calculating this decision. Then, Bethesda is starting to dig their graves and begging daddy Microsoft and Phil Spencer to bail them out.

[@STRING3R]

*Fleetwood Mac starts playing*

[@Aereto]

That Bethesda line is Diversity at its finest.

[@NotPork]

"Hey, look, platinum put out one of them fancy text boxes and it worked perfectly! Why don't we just do that?"

[@KidneyFailureGaming]

Bethesda's response is as sensible as Mass Effect 3's ending.

[@animetrashamvs]

Ooooo, good one👏🏾 that ending still gets a head vein poppin

[@Ge0rge_0rwell]

What were the endings again? I

[@macdhomhnaill7721]

@@Ge0rge_0rwell Red, Blue, Green.

[@dlkjAENFadlkfj]

@@Ge0rge_0rwell Blue beam, red beam, and green beam

[@WH250398]

@@Ge0rge_0rwell You mean colors?

[@PainfullyCasual]

Basically they're saying Mick should sue them so that they can present their "evidence" .

[@errorx_x1063]

Bethesda just knows they have better lawyers and that's their only way to win this argument..

[@trunksbriefs4132]

And it wouldn't surprise me if they fabricate it. People are tricky with this kind of shit.

[@SpectreSaunders]

Alduin from The Elder Scrolls was right... I hope he eats Bethesda... 🐉

[@CeHee123]

It's a pain that one of the most defining features of the game has now become such a point of conflict.

[@greed1914]

It really is. The soundtrack is so integral to the game. I'm finding myself ok with the idea of not getting a new Doom because it won't have Mick working on it.

[@kelleroid]

@@greed1914 well the Ancient Gods DLCs already have music by two(three?) other composers

[@sixstringedthing]

It's pretty hard to stay positive about the future of humanity when members of the species are willing to harass a music composer with death threats over a video game soundtrack on the basis of a reddit post from a Company Man.

[@iKSmurf]

Don't blame the people who do, blame those who enable them.

[@DatJNP]

@@iKSmurf Me thinks you missed his point.

[@robmurray4968]

@@MustacheMerlin Your comment is long, badly written, and boring. I think it might have caused me to lose my faith in humanity- and very nearly my will to live! 😂

[@sixstringedthing]

@@robmurray4968 eh, old mate clearly needed to get a few things off his chest, and I applaud his or her positivity. Give them a pass eh? Cheers ;)

[@SimpCity2000]

PROPS to Yong for doing the sponsor right timestamping the timeline. THANK YOU

[@hayleybarbara1589]

Shout out to sponsorblock i didnt even notice there was a sponsor

[@unofficialmeme5972]

They literally pulled the "We at brand care about our employees." trick. You can tell they're underprepared for the wrath that's coming their way.

[@StudlyFudd13]

Yeah if people weren't already boycotting all of their works...you bet your shiny buttcheeks that they are now.

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

I think it's more likely that Bethesda cares about it's employees than most other companies.

[@Vsm426]

@@tunnelsnakesrule7541 Really now?

[@BulletSponge178]

I'd bet they know less than they think and are taking Marty at hid word.

[@DollarDude]

Mick brought the receipts, Bethesda and Marty didn't. Until that changes, Mick is the winner.

[@bobdravs6902]

Their "receipts" probably exist as that they will prove their "innocence" by burying Mick in legal fees until he is forced to stand down, at which point they will declare victory.

[@pixelated_jefe]

That pretty much my stand too. Until proven otherwise, Bethesda looking really bad in the Public eye.

[@AC03115]

The big thing I want to know from all this is why Marty seems to have such a vendetta against Mick for? Mick said that most of his treatment during Eternal's development was due to Marty, it almost seems like Marty has a personal grudge against Mick. Like what is Marty's deal with Mick

[@___Hermitage]

Whatever the grudge would be, what would be worth creating this kind of insane disaster over?

[@AC03115]

@@___Hermitage Exactly, like part of why the new Doom games are so well-acclaimed and loved is their soundtracks and how good they are (on top of them being just great games in general). So Marty going after Mick and making his life hell during Eternal's development makes no sense, wouldn't you want Mick to be able to make the best music he can since it'll be another piece of acclaim to add to Eternal's repertoire on top of again just being a very fun and well-designed game

[@Valzahd]

I'm going to guess ego. Mick was getting all this praise and love from the fans and little ole Marty felt left out.

[@RebelWvlf]

Marty smells like that stereotypical 1930s corporate boss who thinks he can do literally everything to his employees and get away with it solely because he has money and is in higher position than them.

[@AC03115]

@@Valzahd But that doesn't make sense still (not saying you're wrong), both Doom 2016 Doom Eternal received tons of accolades and acclaim, including multiple GOTY nominations and awards, even subtracting the awards related to the game's music it still won tons of nominations and wins.

[@predatron4197]

Feels like a different Bethesda than the one that stopped working with Jeremy Soule after the accusations. Jeremy was a huge part of the Elder Scrolls experience so the fact that they prioritized the victims over one of the best video game music composers felt like they cared more for the safety of the victims or didn't want to risk anything. Now Mick has lots of evidence and they wont take his side. Maybe they just dont care about music composers after they make them money.

[@___Hermitage]

Given how badly they treated THIS composer and with some of the things that have come to light, it would not amaze me if those accusations were manufactured in order to defame Jeremy Soule and destroy his reputation. They have just tried to do the exact same thing to Mick Gordon (though not successfully, or as egregiously).

[@starofaetherius]

Either theyre okay with abusive scheduling and crunch and draw the line at sexual misconduct, or this is more of an Id Software problem rather than a Bethesda-wide issue. But idk i dont work there so your guess is as good as mine.

[@starofaetherius]

@@___Hermitage sexual misconduct and accusations from his team is a little different than a defamation post made online by management but i understand the comparison. Just not ready to jump that far yet for me.

[@mattnilsen8859]

Was Jeremy an outside contractor like Mick? Maybe it had less to do with a moral stand and more to do with seeing contractors as expendable and easily tossed away.

[@gamergod7434]

The accusations against Jeremy Soule were total bullshit though. The woman who made them was trying to attack the company she worked with for not paying her

[@skeetercreek6455]

Bethesda: attempts to refute micks claims Mick gordan: THE DOOM MUSIC KICKS IN

[@The.Judging.Crow009]

I know Bethesda games always miss a few things at launch but i didn't know the company was missing a spine

[@robrib2682]

No.... They sell that separately. But honestly this sounds like someone not liking someone else and making their life hell and finding inventive ways to not pay them the money they are owed

[@shadowtech9158]

Can't miss something you never had. Bethesda with a spine is like their games without an insane number of bugs, never going to happen.

[@ItIsGonnaGetWayWorse]

When has bethesda ever had good responses to anything Theyve got EA levels of PR

[@neock]

"these arnt loot boxes. they are supprise mechanics" *is in the game code as loot boxes* corperations need to have laws so strict placed on them they can get shut down for simple lies, imprisoned for targeted harassment. but with the way the system works... those with more money almost always win. be it by hireing more lawyers or dragging it out long enough. courtoom fees are chumpchange to them

[@conrradotorres4653]

"Microsoft PR"

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

@@neock EA made this statement i'm guessing.

[@alphachestnut]

@@tunnelsnakesrule7541 there's a video of it on youtube, it's pretty funny

[@knuteknoll6747]

“The bag shown in the photo was a prototype and too expensive to make We aren’t planning on doing anything about it”

[@ozzcoremidmx8287]

While it is possibly that those proofs are needed to be in court before making out publicly (Despite the fact that Bethesda doesn't want it to take it to court since it has been more than 2 years and they were just stalling Mick's attempts of solving this and claiming his unpaid tracks) and maybe and just maybe, there is something that Mick did wrong, it is impossible to deny that Marty Stratton has been a total idiot by publicly humiliating Mick in one of the worst places in the internet for that: Reddit, he really knew what he was doing since the very beginning Mick's patience and common sense have been beyond of incredible even asking that no one should be threatened or attacked even after the accusations.

[@Silamon2]

I'm sure his lawyers went over his statement with a fine toothed comb before it released, so some of that should probably be attributed to them. It was a well drafted statement to be sure though. I hope things work out for Mick, his music is awesome.

[@seekertosecrets]

Marty wanted to keep it silent. He wanted it buried under the rug. Marty wanted to take all the praise from this project he was involved with. The moment he blamed the composer for the poor quality of the game is akin to cracking a magical seal that was suppose to prevent the calamity from happening again. Marty made the bed and now, he has to deal with it.

[@mrb740]

Mick Gordon: "Hey, Marty, your project planning is not good" Marty Stratton: *So you have chosen death*

[@ArcaneSorceror]

Having fallen out of love with Bethesda and being wary of the AAA gaming industry in general, it is easy to side with Mick. When people started complaining about the quality of the OST and blaming Mick for it, I was baffled. Given the care, detail and passion he clearly put into the music for Doom 2016, it made literally no sense for him to drop the ball. It was apparent that someone in idSoft had screwed it up, not Mick. Plus given the evidence that Mick has provided in his statement, it is easier to side with him. It will have to be one hell of a magic trick that Bethesda can pull to get out of this one.

[@flamingkittyumad]

It is not only justified, but a moral obligation to pirate Any Bethesda game whenever possible

[@jasonclawson104]

As Mick himself once said: "The DOOM fans are not the Disney fans. If DOOM fans don't like your work, they'll burn your house down"©

[@livingcorpse5664]

Telling the internet not to harass Mick is just them covering their own ass, they knew the internet would attack him when they started shit online.

[@disposed666]

The "proper venue" means Marty is going to try and bring the weight of the zenimax legal machine, which is formidable, because that's all Marty *can* do. He has nothing to refute Mick's account, and Mick's reticence in speaking out on the whole affair til now tracks with what he said in his post, seeking an amicable resolution & restitution through the lawyers, who delayed delayed delayed. I'd go further and say that Marty having Chad working on the OST for as long as he did, coupled with his icing out of Mick regarding the OST, is a clear sign Marty was looking to save money by having Chad cobble togethet the whole thing in exchange for, say, a "co-artist" credit maybe, rather than pay Mick to do it right. As Mick pointed out, Marty is clueless regarding the mastering process. And they still haven't paid Mick for over half the music in Doom Eternal?! Are you kidding me? This reminds me of an old Romero interview where he mentioned id having a deceptive snake in their midst who would lie, shift blame, take undue credit, basically do anything, step on anyone to get ahead. I posit that Marty, now studio head of Id, is the snake hinted at so long ago.

[@cmdraftbrn]

"we have all the evidence and will present them in the appropriate venue" meaning: sue us so we can drag it out in court! so glad i havent bought any of their games in a long as time

[@SunnyZ]

Trust: • The little guy that has everything to lose. • The multi-billion-dollar company that has nothing to lose. You decide Disclosure: I have HATED Zenimax after they had my OG KZbin account banned after uploading videos of the beta of TES Online AFTER the NDA ended.

[@Tyrany42]

I agree, though my faith in that ideal was shaken a bit by Helena Taylor

[@timmyreobed5043]

@@Tyrany42 Yeah, ultimately trust is something that should be earned by evidence. That being said, Bethesda so far has little to none compared to Mick.

[@Tyrany42]

@@timmyreobed5043 Absolutely. I’m not saying that situation discredits this one. Evidence is important when trusting the accusations of anyone

[@tranceformerfx]

I love how Bethesda puts out this statement like they were involved in this process from the beginning - when in reality they had NO IDEA what was going on at Id Software until Mick Gordon emailed Bethesda when Mick wasn't getting anywhere about his contract details for Doom Eternal's OST and went over Marty Stratton's head and went directly to Bethesda.

[@darnell16player]

I love Mick Gordon’s work and I hope justice swings in his way and he was preparing everything to be as tight as possible

[@xysm5224]

They went out and said "WAAAAA HE'S LYING WE'VE BEEN HARASSED!" Sounds like Marty wrote that.

[@targard.quantumfrack6854]

No joke, I totally imagine Marty hijacking a Bethesda account to make this statement behind their back and the execs & legals scrambling around wondering how to deal with this now. Just imagine one second.

[@johnlouisbautista7563]

This incident sounds so much like amber heard vs johnny depp except johnny showed evidence first and actually true

[@aidandix7296]

I think they underestimated the cross over of the video game and metal community and hoped that gamers wouldn't care as much about what a musician had to say. But the metal community specifically has an extremely large online presence and so we have them standing up to id alongside gamers

[@Nyzer_]

Two points strongly in Mick's favor are that there was blatant unprofessionalism already on display by Bethesda, id, and Marty. First, they actually released the soundtrack as is, without any sort of warning or promise of an update in the near future. Second, the way they absolutely threw Mick under the bus for it. They could have been very noncommital, leaving it at "Mick had to deal with sudden, unexpected personal issues and was unable to finish all the work on the soundtrack by the time it had to be released, and we felt keeping the release date was better than delaying it while we attempted to find alternatives."

[@AzureRoxe]

The difference with the Hellena Taylor situation is that she had no proof or evidence of what she said, so she was quickly caught in the lie. Mick Gordon made a huge post with tons of proof and Bethesda's response is "nah, that ain't proof".

[@cyberius6]

Mick provides tons of documents, Bethesda retorts with "trust me bro".

[@inciaradible7144]

This is absurd. Bethesda didn't say anything when Marty threw Mick under the bus for no reason with no real explanation as to why they even released the broken OST to begin with. Based on their 'appropriate venue' comment, I am pretty sure they aren't going to release anything to the public, and I think they are just taking serious advantage of the whole Helena Taylor debacle.

[@mattmanley7118]

You might say Bethesda is in a position of Eternal Doom 😂

[@conrradotorres4653]

I hope Mick drops a lawsuit to Rip and Tear them

[@zeelyweely1590]

As someone who used to work in marketing as a designer I think what pisses me off the most is the way they made the response. I know the EXACT words some poor designer's boss used to tell them to make that post, and if the worthless, impersonal PNG is infuriating for the people reading it, it was SO much worse for whoever had to spend those 15 minutes making that.

[@HamletTwin]

It blows my mind that Bethesda can claim "Oh we didn't like your work so we ain't paying for it. Do it again." Then go behind Mick's back and STILL use the music, while only paying him for half the work he did. The deliverables were already sent, Mick did the work, PAY THE MAN. Whether you like/dislike how it turns out in the end is all up to you.

[@Slash0mega]

what i got from this use the cloud with lower quality samples that must be accepted before sending off the real thing.

[@jomesias]

Have no doubt, this is how companies “negotiate”. By lying about creating a contract, then take advantage that there is no contract! I had this happen with a company that blackmailed us into doing more work for free otherwise they weren’t going to pay the last check. So it was done, then after paying the last check they tried to pull the same sh1t3 on us. Needless to say I left that client in the dust!!

[@zanenoth9963]

I think that people like you, Ola Englund, NikNokturnal etc keeping the spot light on this is key. Put light on the subject, pressure on Microsoft in turn is pressure on Bethesda and ID Software. Don't let them forget what they did. Justice for Mick.

[@Marth667]

Speaking of not forgetting, we gonna forget that yong stoked Marty's claims for content, giving credence to his opinion and version of events two years ago? Guess you just forgot, you, yong and the whole Doom community. Justice for Mick indeed, can't wait to see all those people who lambasted Mick come out and say they're sorry, they we're wrong. Huh, haven't seen even one mf do that.. Cockroaches do run when the lights come on after all.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

Remember when Mick said Bethesda Legal team gaslighted him to think he was wrong and stuff ? This is literally that, this is just proving Mick right

[@stephensimmons7140]

They're just trying to intimidate him into silence again.

[@pulsar943]

Mick deserved so much more. they owe the game's success to him. if they have any bit of self aware they would give him full freedom to make a proper OST album

[@CRAgamer]

Don't think he'd want to at this point.

[@xonerex7501]

Ok well that's a bit hyperbolic. Mick's music is awesome and is certainly one contributing factor for DOOM's success, but Hugo Martin and countless other technical and creative staff knocked it out of the park in creating a fun game that works really well. No need to take that away from them because their boss is a manipulative, awful person.

[@fightthepowerman]

Wow so you've obviously never ran a multimillion dollar company. I'll put it simply... you don't spend money now to make more back later. Thats just... what every business ever has done for hundreds of years... totally not applicable in this situation.

[@CRAgamer]

@@fightthepowerman wait...do-do you have a multimillion dollar company?

[@pulsar943]

@@fightthepowerman doubt you'll ever run one either since you waste your time defending them

[@G-flo]

I've been seeing a common trend in sponsorships like Raycons, Established Titles, then Vessi, among the few gaming channels I follow. First it was Jake, then Muta, now Yong lol. It's just nice to see y'all sharing the same interests with others when it comes your sponsors. I've had my Vessis ever since they launched on Kickstarter. And as much as I love em, I'm a tad disappointed that I don't get to experience much of it's waterproofing capabilities since I also live in LA, haha.

[@imthemetalguy1]

After the Bayonetta incident, this is definitely a performer's redemption arc. Performer has receipts and record on everything that went down

[@toboe156]

If you’ve ever watched Mick’s video about how he made the Doom 2016 soundtrack, you’d see the passion and talent he has. Where as, typically, corporate assholes tend to be corporate assholes.

[@brycesetzer8663]

I don't think Bethesda has actual evidence or they would have posted or "leaked" it immediately; if anything its probably a matter of trying to scare Mick into submission with the fear of a legal battle that he stated he didn't want in his accusations.

[@cooloobahn112]

I absolutely love that the Mic vs ID and Helena vs Platinum happened in the same year. This just goes to show everyone in a really public way how 2 sides of a story make a whole. To not cast ultimate judgement on either side before everything is laid bare. Hopefully this has humbled a lot of ppl out there that would otherwise jump the gun and cast their blame on either side just because they got their statement out first.

[@johnnyzen4282]

It's amazing that after all he went through the tracks still came out as badass as they did; a testament to how talented and passionate Mick truely is. Marty should be licking his boots.

[@beerasaurus]

Bethesda making threats of retaliation because they got exposed for their awful business practices, and awful treatment of their contractors

[@thomas1404]

The fact that he waited 2 years before he posted a rebuttal suggested that he did everything possible before resulting to a public declaration when nothing was forthcoming.

[@KL53986]

What a trainwreck of company Bethesda became its one joke after another

[@xarachne8473]

Love how Xbox fanboys are so desperate for exclusives they got excited when they got Bethesda of all companies 💀

[@StudlyFudd13]

@@xarachne8473 Lol, imagine being exciting about getting a box of shit for christmas. I would imagine that's what it's like.

[@Freddie2916]

@@xarachne8473well Microsoft’s track record is they’ll buy a company then sooner or later it will go downhill. Like Rare and skype

[@MindinViolet]

Given how much I enjoyed their games when I was younger, it is heartbreaking to see the incompetent, greedy ruin of a company they have become.

[@_Cetarial]

@@StudlyFudd13You must feel awfully superior playing on your billion dollar PC.

[@nekohel]

I bet they don't sue Mick for defamation, but do sue him for releasing the proof (probably relying on an NDA or some other contract). - Of course, it would be a risky move, as it would be very telling if the public sees them do this.

[@JJ-fg2wd]

I think that's why he waited so long to collect and release his receipts, along with not taking the 6 figure hush money

[@npcimknot958]

this just 100 confirms crunch and mistreatment in these companies are 100 true.

[@tunnelsnakesrule7541]

Maybe on ID. Most accounts of Bethesda's work space have been positive and crunch is very uncommon, only in 76 at launch with BGS Austin.

[@Caphalem]

I'm confident that Bethesda's "full and documented evidence" is just as ready as was the OST of Doom Eternal

[@Rokabur]

Besides needing good gameplay, the soundtrack is one of THE most important parts of a game. A game can play fantastic but if the music isn't any good, people aren't likely to stick with it.

[@todd5purlock497]

"to disclose in an appropriate venue" = corporate speak for "we have nothing but want you to think we do"

[@OfficialForgettenWeapons]

👆👆 Thank you for watching and commenting got something for you 🎉🛍️🛍️🛍️…

[@NotZedMain]

idk who's running thr PR team but they're stupid if they think this response wont cause more harassment and public humiliation for the company, or its their fetish

[@Tricob1974]

Note Bethesda's shift in tone and delivery in their reply; its attitude is different at the end than at the beginning. It seems to show signs that the reply was tampered with. More than likely, the company consulted a PR man with what to say, but then they cherry-picked what was written and what wasn't. Even if you're speed-reading, you'll see a bad argument here. The very first two sentences - it illustrates a hostile attitude and lack of open-mindedness. That's no way to do a public reply ... especially if you have a poor reputation preceding you.

[@thebuccaneersden]

I'm actually pretty stunned by how unprofessional id softs response was. Either Marty himself wrote that or the company is covering for something. Or they just don't want to deal with the legal / financial impact of dealing with Marty's big reddit mistake. Stay classy, HR. At least make an attempt to do the right thing for once.

[@seriouscat2231]

I translated it from their reality to this reality: The recent post by Mick Gordon completely told the truth about certain actors in id Software, the development of Doom Eternal, Marty Stratton, and Chad Mossholder with a balanced and just account of a professional relationship we destroyed on purpose. We are aware of all the details and history in this matter. We take our own side and maintain that we are the good guys. We reject every fact and detail that makes us look bad. We challenge you to sue us if you dare and we expect to drown you in legal fees but also stall and maneuver you until you will beg to be put out of your misery. The statements posted online have made people angry at Marty, the chosen hitman against the complainant, Chad, who should be left alone because he was just a pawn, but not the id Software team, who we will use as a human shield anyway. Any threats or harassment directed towards the villain will hit the shield aka the team and will be milked for all its worth in a publicity war. We remain incredibly conflicted about id's previous collaborations with Mick Gordon and his theft of our spotlight and ask that fans would not consider us caught in the act of attempting to remedy the situation by getting rid of him while making it his fault, but more importantly we ask that we'd get away scot-free from the whole ordeal, including our unfulfilled contractual obligations.

[@DrowzyLink]

For a number of years its been difficult being a Bethesda fan, this might make it outright impossible for me going forward.

[@whoevencares219]

Even if it turns out Gordon was the one in the wrong here, if Bethesda really didn't want to work with him anymore, they would just not hire him again, any competent company would simply do this behind closed doors. The fact that Marty went out of his way to do the post just filled with nothing but vitriolic rage and career-ending intentions, regardless of who's right or wrong, is just pathetic.

[@ArtsyPuppy]

mick gordon: *comes forward with evidence and recounting of events in a well worded medium post directly accusing bethesda and marty stratton* bethesda: nuh uh

[@TheSaraGames]

Gordon's massive statement really has the feel of a brief being submitted to a court of law. It is so structured, so exact in it's layout, with evidence, that I feel it was a team effort, Gordon and his lawyer drafting this before release. This leads in to my second point/comment, whatever. I hope, per say, that this does go to court and we the evidence found during discovery and used in the court case Then we will have the most accurate account we could possible get from both sides. Of course I'm setting aside the fact that this would be extremely expensive to bring suit. Probably well beyond Gordon's means, which sucks. It's the whole access to justice issue.

[@TommasoFirmini]

Fun fact, since Mick made his post, the doom eternal soundtrack has been removed from iTunes

[@justingoers]

I don’t think it was every on there. To the best of my knowledge it was only every sent to people who preordered the collectors edition. No digital or physical release outside of that. Just FY fans have made better versions that you can stream on KZbin by assembling the in game audio and mixing it properly.

[@GeoGyf]

Not really, it was removed a long time ago because they were afraid that they could get sued. I mean at the end of the day, the soundtrack (Mick was working on it until the last hour) was botched. And this could indeed get to a court of law. And while the majority of the blame is with Id, Mick Gordon did have a contract (which he received very late but he signed it) and he was also liable as well.

[@justingoers]

@@GeoGyf I don't follow what you're saying. I can't find any record of the OST ever being on any streaming service or ever being sold for download. Every source I've ever seen (and I just looked again) states that it was only ever made available for owners of the collectors edition. The backlash on the quality was so bad (there's tons of videos on its problems) and therefore wasn't sold or put on streaming services. I also don't follow when you say "they could get sued" Who could get sued? For what? I hope I don't come off as rude. I don't mean to be. Your post just confuses me. As far as I know the best was to get the OST is fan made edits.

[@More-Sauce-Man]

The whole "pay by minutes" scheme these game companies have is so shady. Sounds like a way to protect themselves in court while basically exploiting voice actors and music producers/composers to keep their costs as low as possible.

[@garagegames2555]

Huh, Bethesda seems to be hell bent on to making a response as good as the games they make

[@TheNinjaMarmot]

If this goes to court I hope they make it public. So we can see Bethesdas attempts to block Mick from providing evidence with some dirty tactics.

[@brenolk4642]

When will people learn “Most Evil Video Game Company” is not a good thing

[@RacingSnails64]

The thing about this that gets me is that Marty and Mick both seemed so down to earth. It's hard to imagine either guy being high and mighty or narcissistic. I mean everyone acts differently behind closed doors, but yeah, I looked up to both these guys. I can't believe fans harassed Mick over the reddit post. What the fuck? It only made me sad and disappointed. I didn't hate Mick over it. In fact ironically, it made me blame the management! They should've NEVER made the OST a pre-order bonus to avoid this whole mess. I want more information, Bethesda!!!

[@Egotolegend2]

The part that has been bothering me and it’s one of the reasons I am siding with Mick, how is it for the last couple of years, he was doing a outstanding job with Killer Instinct season 1-2, Wolfenstein new order/colossus, Doom (2016), and parts of Prey/Lawbreakers, but when we get to Doom Eternal, all of a sudden now he’s hard to work with?

[@GeoGyf]

Hmm i disagree. There were rumors that he was hard to deal with in the other Bethesda games as well. I am guessing 2 main things: deadlines from Id which interfered with Mick's schedule & Mick Gordon wanting more money, more creative control about his songs. The Doom eternal problem is about the promised soundtrack. The deadline couldnt be moved and eventually lead to a botched job & both parties blaming each other. Ofcourse at the end of the day Zenimax will stand behind Id, because Mick Gordon didnt effectively use the corporate channels (and ofcourse Marty used them far better) and made Id and Zenimax look bad.

[@Lazyboijere]

Bethesda should have treated Mick like royalty after the masterpiece that is the Doom (2016) OST.

[@philipsalama8083]

It's so cowardly for Bethesda to hide behind alleged 'harassment'. Clearly they weren't worried about Mick getting harassed when they countenanced Marty posting his open letter to *Reddit* of all places. That letter was specifically intended to direct hate towards Mick - otherwise they would have posted an official statement like this one.

[@stargamer64123]

Unlike Helena Taylor, Mick Gordon deserved better and really showed all of his proof and evidence. And good on him for not trying to spread this news to encourage a hate campaign.

[@Nickmacpaddywhack]

Mick Gordon is an incredibly brilliant and very talented video game music composer. If the allegations that he made are true then that means that not only did they treat him unfairly by forcing him to meet unrealistic timelines, steal his music and then try to throw him under the bus for their crappy decisions, but in so doing, they could have potentially ruined his career essentially robbing the world of his talent. And that's not only unfair to him but also unfair to his fans as well. That's just not how you do business bethesda/id.

[@honeypeadigital]

Thanks for summarizing that 1-hour long video into 3 minutes. I knew you can compress information and leave citations in the comments :). I can't watch 1 hr news segment which goes off on tangents.

[@TheForever206]

I still listen to the Doom soundtrack when im at the gym. Nothing makes you feel like lifting more then pre workout with a soundtrack that makes you feel like you can fight ANY and ALL beings and WIN!

[@Bhavyo]

cool, i will try that. Never thought about doing workout with any kind of games music at all.

[@TheForever206]

@@Bhavyo might I suggest "Eternal Gains - Doom Eternal..." Playlist here on KZbin. Absolute banger mix of Doom Eternal tracks for working out.

[@targard.quantumfrack6854]

I'm an idiot, I never tried this on Box VR

[@twalker5801]

Sharing evidence of wrongdoing is not "inciting harassment."

[@biggestduckmusic]

That sponsor segue really caught me off guard. Great job!