Better than DACs twice its price! Geshelli Labs J3 review

[@TheRedMantra]

I’ve had the J3 Pro for 2+ months. I’ve been running a Sparkos dual ss2590 in the single ended out for 6 weeks. It’s impressive. I have tinnitus and the level of detail I can enjoy at lower volumes, without fatigue or a spike in ringing is great.

[@PassionforSound]

That's awesome! So glad you're enjoying it.

[@Ruger62]

Oh wow! I'm in same boat. Achieving good detail is hard when you have old ears. Fatigue sets in easily. Might I ask what your speakesr/amp are? What other DAC's did you try or own? Thanks so much.

[@kato2395]

A little confused but shouldn't it only use dual op amps for balanced?

[@PassionforSound]

In the single ended socket, there's just one dual op-amp that covers both the left and right channels. 🙂

[@TheodoreBreaux]

Glad to see you were finally able to get the SS2590s. Geshelli deserves much credit for listening to consumers and redesigning their platform to more easily fit these big op amps (it was tricky in the J2S). The J2S/J3 platform with AK 4499EX and SS2590s has set a high bar for sonic performance attainable for under $1k USD invested.

[@PassionforSound]

I completely agree!

[@Good4HealthBad4Education]

Hey just FYI, the SS2590 Op-Amps do fit in the J2S. There are forum threads showing you how to fit them using dip-8 extenders. They fit pretty good for a DAC that wasn't designed for the larger Op-Amps. Also, I have the AK4499 J2S with two SS2590s Op-Amps installed in a larger wooden case (as opposed to the aluminum case) to make it even easier to fit them inside. It's possible. Edit: Burson Audio 35mm Extension Lead x2

[@PassionforSound]

Yes, that's true. I just try to keep my content geared to the average buyer/user and not as much for those who are looking to do significant tweaking and adapting (unless I'm making a specific video on that sort of topic, of course).

[@johnezzard680]

I have this same set up. I spoke with Geshelli labs and asked if the "PRO to DUAL DIP8 Adapter - Adapter + Two SS2590 Fully assembled into adapter" from Sparkos would fit and it did. Caveat, I fit it in the RCA connection area. The difference between the J2 and J3 is that I believe in the J3, they'll fit anywhere. Sounds great. The DAC sounded excellent before; now sounds more excellent, lol.

[@PassionforSound]

That's correct. A J2S WILL fit a dual 2590s on an 8-pin adapter in the RCA socket without any modification or fiddling. The J3 makes that possible across all three sockets. 🙂

[@OldGuyHifi]

The 2590 dual dip 8 chip will fit in the single ended out of the J2S. That's how run mine. I did a video on it. Love you channel. Thx.

[@TheodoreBreaux]

They can be fitted to the XLR outputs as well, but it requires a DIP8 socket adapter to raise the height of the one closest to the jack and a DIP8 extender for the other.

[@OldGuyHifi]

@@TheodoreBreaux Yes, but I found the unit to run a bit warmer than normal. I haven't talked to Geno about it but I will see him in a couple of weeks and will ask.

[@johnezzard680]

Yes, thanks for pointing that out; that's how I knew to upgrade!

[@pd5338]

I was one of the first people to get the Geshelli J3, I originally ordered it with Sparkos SS3602 opamps but after the first month of listening I decided to upgrade to their SS2590 pro discrete opamps. In my system it made a big difference especially with bass texture, dynamics & detail. I’m totally happy with the J3 with the new opamps. I agree with everything in your review including the thought process of going even bigger with the Dayzee. I just couldn’t justify the additional investment and couldn’t be happier to have gone with the J3.

[@PassionforSound]

The J3 is a brilliant balance of size, cost and performance. I'm so glad you're enjoying it!

[@wafflest1ck]

J3 Pro here with Burson v7 Vivid's and Fiio PL50 Linear Power Supply. Sublime.

[@truman4956]

I guess the next video will be comparing power supplies for this DAC.

[@PassionforSound]

No. Going from the wall wart to a nice power supply is a decent upgrade, but it doesn't warrant a whole video.

[@blue6point62]

Thanks for including context of linear power upgrades recognizing the improvement and managing expectations.

[@PassionforSound]

My pleasure!

[@mov3d-strengthforliving717]

I've been waiting for this video... Thank you for your insights and knowledge.

[@PassionforSound]

My pleasure. I'm glad it was helpful!

[@jos5067]

Is this DAC better than the Holy May Cyan 2, my favorite at this moment?

[@BobbyBass-x6i]

I love my Holo Audio Cyan 2. The best I’ve heard under $2K US. Detailed and not harsh. Wish it had a control on the front to switch between inputs.

[@jos5067]

@@BobbyBass-x6i Hi and thanks! I have had the Chord Qutest for 6 years, but sold it recently and just ordered the Cyan 2. I was very happy with the Qutest, but I think the Cyan is somewhat better. I also included a Synergistic Research Pink fuse. They say, than it will even sound better.

[@PassionforSound]

I haven't tried the Holo Cyan and it's unlikely that I will... Sorry.

[@RonaldGooding-o3h]

Noo!..don't say you likely won't try it! 😱

[@BobbyBass-x6i]

@@PassionforSound be open to trying new things. Saying no to the Cyan 2 is like saying no to life :)

[@HaamRadio54]

Any comparisons with the denafrips ares series of dacs? Ares 2...12th...15th....

[@PassionforSound]

I reviewed the Ares II a few years ago and wasn't much a fan. I haven't tried the latest versions so I can't really compare them for you. Sorry.

[@carolineleonard8214]

The only rolling that I do is when I sit in my car facing downhill with the hand brake off. Smooth, silent, cost effective, highly efficient and as good as anything else on the market for completing the task. 😊😊😊

[@PassionforSound]

😂

[@Alamo-cz5xc]

I couldn't be happier with mine. All my gear is single ended so I only needed one set of 2590s. Using speakers BTW, not headphones.

[@PassionforSound]

Nice. Glad you're enjoying it and the cost savings of running single ended!

[@carloslong839]

I have the J2 S and upgraded to Burson v7 vivid on my RCA last month. What an improvement. Apparently Gino is evaluating the Staccato op amps and if they fit, I'm going for that to roll. I just love everyone at Geshelli Labs as they are honest and super helpful.

[@PassionforSound]

So glad you're enjoying the upgraded J2S!

[@Feliciano12v]

Do Staccato op amps fit j2s?

[@PassionforSound]

@Feliciano12v I haven't tested those, but I know Sherri from Geshelli has played with them so check the Geshelli website or email them for confirmation.

[@ccdccd8615]

Great review. The J3 was at the top of my list if I were in the market for a DAC. I would get it over the Dayzee for several reasons. The dual mono design of the Dayzee is technically better, but I question whether it is audibly better. If it is audibly better, I think a really high resolution system would be required to hear the difference and I’m not sure I have that kind of system. Finally, with the J3, I can upgrade the outputs I’m using, single ended or balanced. With the Dayzee, all 8 channels have to be the same which makes op amp swapping VERY expensive. For a cost no object systems, the Dayzee would be the call. For everyone else, I think we would be just fine with the J3.

[@PassionforSound]

I generally agree with all of this and the J3 is already such a great DAC that it will be plenty good enough for many people.

[@Hawkeye242]

For the dayzee, the op amps are single instead of dual, so that does save some cost if upgrading op amps. The J3 require dual, so upgrading is actually a bit more expensive than it seems at first. Also, you can upgrade just the RCA or XLR, you don’t have to upgrade all 8, just the ones feeding your sound output choice.

[@mr.joeshow9036]

Looking forward to your Topping D90III Discrete review. I’m between the J3 with SS2590 or the Topping D🤔. Excellent content! Thanks.

[@PassionforSound]

It's a little way off, but coming soon...

[@mr.joeshow9036]

⁠@@PassionforSoundlooking forward to it! I have the J3 now with the 2590 RCA out.. very good coming from a Audiolab Mdac +, from a sound perspective.

[@mr.joeshow9036]

@@PassionforSoundkeep the J3.. try the D90.. any early impressions?

[@PassionforSound]

I would keep the J3...

[@Scottyman99]

J3 w/2590's or the Denafrips Ares 15th? Sibilance and harshness are bad, warm, full yet detailed is good. I don't like the looks of the J3, but if it sounds better to me and is cheaper, I'd give it a try. Which should I choose? Update: Just placed an order for a red aluminum/smoke J3 w/default op amps and ordered the Sparkos 2590's Pro to dual DIP 8 just for the RCA's. The Sparkos are on sale! Great price!

[@PassionforSound]

That's great news. Congratulations!! I think you made the right choice.

[@malintha.leanage]

got it, its awesome! great synergy with with archel 3 pro :)

[@Jamie-666]

Just wish the Archel had XLR out.

[@PassionforSound]

There's always the E3 Pro

[@Jamie-666]

@@PassionforSound wanting those tone controls......

[@PassionforSound]

Yep. E3 Pro has those too 😁

[@realshmoothie]

I bought the 2590s for the balanced circut by emailing the team. They unfortunately only sent them in the box, so I had to go and install them myself. Just a warning to potential buyers. They are not super easy to install because of the limited space where the button wires go.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I believe they are at risk of falling out of the sockets inside the DAC if shipped with them installed so it's safer to have them sent separately.

[@liefeksil]

I'm wondering what would happen if you pair an erish 3 with the ss2590s and a j3 with the vivid pros...

[@PassionforSound]

It would sound great. You'd be even better off if the J3 also had 2590s, but the V7 Vivids get pretty close.

[@liefeksil]

@@PassionforSound I'll have to contact them and see if I can get the 2590s then! Thanks!

[@DIVA-MC-7]

Is running a schiit mani 2 trough the J2s/j3 a good thing ? or should i just have it go directly to a preamp ?

[@PassionforSound]

The Mani is an analog only device so you need to go straight to a preamp or amp. 🙂

[@sopasadena1499]

Great video. The ss2590 fits in the RCA side of the j2s with a riser from sparkos but not in the xlr

[@PassionforSound]

Yes. You can adapt the 2590s with some fiddling and mess, but that's where the J3 redesign is so much easier. 🙂

[@sopasadena1499]

Do your favorable comments on the j3 with sparkos ss2590 apply equally as well to single ended outputs as to xlr? Thanks for your detailed review. I always trust your input

[@PassionforSound]

Hi. Yes, absolutely. The J3 is equally as good from both outputs. Most DACs are these days (but I'll still call out any exceptions)

[@tunejunky]

great review. imho, the only thing that's a competitive issue with this dac is the fact there is no pre-amp functionality with variable output. the source selection (with USB card) is fine. this leaves this as an outstanding dac for a legacy system (you can even put it in a "tape in/out" with a premier receiver). but my primary application for my desktop is more "future-fi", so the Eversolo's and the Cambridge Audio's combine the dac with streamers and gain controls for the self powered monitors i use. for my hi-fi though, this is a big winner and if the modded J3 sounds even slightly close to the Dayzee it's a slamdunk for less money than i was expecting to spend updating my 10 year old dac.

[@PassionforSound]

Yes, having preamp controls would be nice, but would result in a larger and more expensive DAC. If you're running something like an EverSolo DMP-A6, you could always run the output from that to the J3 and use the volume control on the EverSolo.

[@wokthetalk3079]

Hello Larchan - Does the J3 require one 2590 for each of the balance channels and a pair 2590s, stacked for the mono outputs? How is the mono vs the balance output sounds, I have a Schiit Lyr 3. I wish Geshelli would give up the TOSLINK & SPDIF input connections in the front (as no one seems to need them there) and add a I2S connection in the back. Is the J3 balanced section truly a duel mono design? How the the J3 with the 2590 sound vs the Holo Cyan 2?

[@KXP70]

The front inputs was one of the reasons I had bought a J2S from them 😅 It's a great convenience feature for things that won't be plugged in all the time. With regards to the opamps, the XLR will require two stacked pairs. And a single stacked pair for RCA as you have already said. So all of the slots on the J3 (and J2S) require a dual opamp.

[@PassionforSound]

Thanks for the answers, KXP70! As for the design, it's not dual mono - just balanced. You need the Dayzee for dual mono. Also, you can custom order the Geshelli DACs without the front inputs if you want to.

[@homer53029]

Is there any discernible improvement in sound using (2) 2590's through the balanced XLR's as opposed to the (1) needed if using the RCA's?

[@PassionforSound]

No. If your amp is just as good with RCA in, the J3 is just as good through either output.

[@Elboogs]

I have a J2s with a pair of 2590s on the RCA output and a linear power supply. I was looking at maybe upgrading to the Pontus II but it sounds like there might not be a large enough difference for the price increase?

[@PassionforSound]

I've never directly compared them, but I think what's more important to consider is that the Pontus has a very different sound style. The J2S with AK4499 chip is somewhat comparable to the Schiit Bifrost 2. I compared the Bifrost 2 (and Yggdrasil) with the Pontus a while back and they have very different sounds so it's worth considering what you want for your system: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZa3eZt9Zb1jprssi=YIzfgKNp4SKUlqdx

[@Scottyman99]

Regarding the Amanero USB on the J3. Can that be used as an input from, say, the Eversolo DMP-A6's USB out to use the DAC from the J3? Assuming the USB input would give the best performance over the optical and coax. Does it matter?

[@PassionforSound]

Yes it can be used, but the clocks in the A6 are already pretty good so I haven't noticed any particular benefit so I'd recommend trying the inputs for yourself and see if one of them gets the edge to your ears.

[@Scottyman99]

@@PassionforSound Thank you

[@WillieBloom]

As if tube-rolling wasn't enough. Now I "have" to roll op-amps? I suppose it's nice to have options but I can tell y'all, looking at the boxes (and I mean BOXES) of tubes I have just behind me, I think I'll stick to one rabbit hole. I don't need another one. The warren is crowded enough. The clutter you see isn't only physical. It's mental and financial. I'm looking to upgrade from my OG Topping D70 (dual AKM 4497 pre-factory fire) to a better AKM 4499EXEQ fully balanced DAC and an R2R ladder DAC. I'm willing to take the gamble that I drop ca USD 1500 for an AKM 4499 and don't hear a damn bit of difference compared to my Topping D70. If so, lesson learned. An R2R DAC is more compelling. This future R2R DAC may cost me more than the future delta-sigma DAC, cognizant that production is more costly. An apples to apples DS vs R2R probably means that a DS á USD 1500 equals an R2R that is USD 2000 - USD 3000. Ish. Then there's tube DACs. Not as common as the other two types but I can assure you that if you show me the tube DAC then I have the tubes to roll it with somewhere here in the warren. I got tubes coming out my azz. Used, NOS, common tubes, rare tubes, expensive tubes, cheap tubes. Tubes that are way too big but look cool. Tubes I need. Tubes I will need... maybe. Tubes I'll never need. There should be a warning label on vacuum tube audio kit similar to those ominous warnings found on maps of yore. "There be tubes!" Maybe don't go there.

[@carlo60768]

buy audio gd r28

[@PassionforSound]

I understand where you're coming from, Willie. I don't really recommend regular rolling of op-amps so much as finding the best set you can and sticking with them. There's generally a clear line of performance with op-amps so you can safely say the X is better than Y whereas with tubes, so much is about preference. With the J3, I'd just recommend getting it with the 2590 op-amps and forgetting about it after that...

[@WillieBloom]

@@carlo60768 thank you for the tip! I will look into it!

[@michealboudreaux]

Does your DAC run warm at all by chance with the SPARKOS 2590s? (Also would love to hear from the community, as mine is and it makes me nervous)

[@PassionforSound]

The 2590s do run a little warm so it's nothing to worry about. Electronic devices are able to run safely up to hot temperatures so if the DAC is warm, but still comfortable to touch, it's far within its safe operating limits.

[@MaZEEZaM]

I have just purchased but yet to try, the Timekeeper 3i Headphone & Speaker Amplifier, how does that compare to your recommended top Geshelli pairing suggested in your Geshelli options video at the end?

[@PassionforSound]

I haven't tried the Timekeeper 3i so I can't say. Sorry.

[@shawnpwatsons1]

Hope you get a sample of the new Schitt Audio Gungnir 2. And remember to try the little Schitt Vali 3 w/we396A tube too. Call Jason. I love your reviews. You're the best.

[@PassionforSound]

We've got the Gungnir planned to come out, but not sure about the Vali.

[@gewema-makkum]

Nice review.....and very bad annoying background music which makes it hard to listen... especially for elderly people..😊 Why do so many KZbinrs think that this is professionel? Background music is fine...but not when you are talking to us....thank you ! 😁

[@PassionforSound]

I'm sorry you found it distracting. There are many reasons for the background music so I won't try to explain them all here, but I will go back and check which specific tracks I used to see if they're more intrusive than usual so I can avoid tracks like those in the future.

[@gewema-makkum]

@@PassionforSound.. Thanks for your fast and honest responding... Little tip... when you where stop talking... the background music kicked in pretty hard.. like it was automatically generated by your video editing program.... I ( and I am not alone !!) prefer no background music at all when you are talking to us... then between pauses.... some background music is fine.. trendsetter on KZbin Casey Neistat was perfect in this. 😂👍

[@kato2395]

Seels like SS2590s is out of stock? The only available option right now for the JNOG3 is SS3602

[@PassionforSound]

No, they never list it as an option so you'd need to email them directly about getting the 2590s.

[@kato2395]

@@PassionforSound ok thanks for the info!

[@alexlopez-u3i]

Great video as always. Thx !

[@PassionforSound]

My pleasure!

[@levthederg]

I currently own the first SMSL VMV D1SE as my DAC, would getting this J3 with those op amps be an upgrade in sound over my current DAC?

[@PassionforSound]

I never got a chance to try the D1SE so I can't say for sure, but I expect it might be an upgrade with the 2590 op-amps.

[@levthederg]

@@PassionforSound well it does have an ES DAC chip in it, and I know the J3 has the newer AKM chip. Is there a sound difference between those two chips?

[@PassionforSound]

@Levdrekinn definitely and that's why I think it will be an upgrade. There's definitely more to a DAC's sound than its chip, but it can only ever be as good as the chip if you know what I mean.

[@VisionCarrierDreamCatcher]

Why do you believe the aluminium case is the better option? Does this carry over to the Dayzee?

[@KXP70]

I think he simply meant in terms of the DAC's value proposition as the wood cases pushes the prices up.

[@PassionforSound]

Yes, partly value, but the aluminium is also better for situations where you need to stack the DAC with another device on top (less likely to get damaged).

[@1donjuego]

I click though the link in your own notes, and while you talk about SS2590 op amps, they are NOT an option. The Sparkos op amp option is the SS3602. How does that compare to the ones your talking about? So what does that mean?

[@KXP70]

Lachlan has covered the SS3602 before and concluded it's a good opamp but a tier below the V7 Vivid/Classic. I believe Geshelli want customers to buy/fit the SS2590 themselves as I think they shipped some dacs with them installed but had come loose (or fell out completely) when it arrived to the customers due to the extra size and weight of them. Geshelli could likely provide the SS2590 for you if you email them like Lachlan said, but I think they would still want you to install them yourself when the DAC arrives.

[@PassionforSound]

Another great reply that covers everything I would have said. Best bet is to email Geshelli and chat to them about your options.

[@adamfrost9048]

I'm also wondering about the Holo Audio Cyan 2 R2R NOS DAC. I'm looking at getting something below $2k and I'm struggling to decide between the Cyan 2 at around $1200 or this at $850.

[@PassionforSound]

Sadly, Holo got cranky with me for not being completely positive about the Spring DAC so I can't seem to get demo units anymore for their products. I'm also unlikely to prioritise a brand that responds like that to reviews that are anything other than positive.

[@adamfrost9048]

@@PassionforSound Ah bummer, thank you so much for the information and for taking the time to respond to me! I was leaning J3 for the lower price, and CheapAudioMan has said they are nice people, so this probably pushed me over the edge for a loaded J3.

[@PassionforSound]

@adamfrost9048 you'll be very happy and Randy is 100% correct. The Geshellis are lovely people.

[@nickfitter1118]

Seems like they won’t sell the DAYZEE to Australia or maybe anywhere overseas. Seems odd!

[@PassionforSound]

It's to do with the cost of shipping and the impact that has on warranty returns, etc. I believe they're looking into distributor options so that local distributors can handle warranty and repair without the units having to be shipped back to the US.

[@user-ec3yv6ko2r]

PUHLEEZE, when you review the new Topping D90 III Discrete, tell us if this still retains the crown for the under $1000 price point! WE MUST KNOW! ❤

[@PassionforSound]

The D90 Discrete is on its way, but that means the review is still a little way off...

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

I have the J2S with the Sparkos ss3602 and AKM4490 upgrades. I needed a second DAC for my headphones and decided to compare it with the Bifrost 2/64 which use the Texas Instruments LME49724 for the balanced outputs. These op amps are less than 1/10th the price of the Sparkos. You would think the J2S would mop the floor all over the Bifrost, but no. The background vocals with the Bifrost were much more prominent and the separation and layering of the voices were way better. The Bifrost was a significantly better sounding dac in every way. I was listening to them through a pair of LRS plus speakers that have the gr-research crossover upgrade. The Geshelli is definitely not going back in.

[@PassionforSound]

The Bifrost 2 is definitely a remarkable DAC, but it's more down to the quality of the DAC stage than the op-amps in use for the output. The Schiit Multibit DAC design is amazing at every level from the Modi to the Yggdrasil. I'm glad you got to compare those two and end up with two fantastic DACs.

[@backrack01]

Would be convenient if they offered the 2590's on their website.

[@PassionforSound]

It would be, so I assume there's a good reason that they're not. I just don't know the reason.

[@sherrigeshelli7906]

The 2590's are not part of our lineup. When a customer asks, we order direct from Sparko's as a convivence for the customer. We are not a reseller or dealer for Sparkos. Also, and most importantly, we do not install them on the DAC. The DAC would come with the opa1656's installed. We encourage folks to go direct to Sparko's to order the 2590's.

[@PassionforSound]

@sherrigeshelli7906 thanks Sherri!

[@Jamie-666]

Alas, Geshelli is no longer shipping to the EU or the UK. "Temp to perm (*per my inquiry). It depends on if we can get better shipping rates. Our shipping contract expired, and they jacked up the prices really high for our new contract. We can no longer support paying for shipping for warranty issues. If we can get better rates in the future, we will open it back up again. We’ve tried FedEx, UPS and DHL. All are way too high for us to be able to pay for warranty shipping issues. Thanks, Sherri, Geshelli Labs"

[@PassionforSound]

That's a shame. Shipping is a killer ever since COVID. (Not saying COVID caused it, but that's about when the prices got silly)

[@Jamie-666]

@@PassionforSound Yeah, crestfallen here. I was going to order a Jnog3 and Archel 3S pro. Sigh.

[@PassionforSound]

@Jamie-666 such a bummer! There's some great stuff coming out of China at the moment so you might be able to get close with some alternatives that are more easily available.

[@sK0pe-d9b]

The J3 is $1300 - $1500. The Bifrost is $1200 with no lead time and provides AU plugs as with Topping, SMSL etc. The J3 is ridiculously low on features for its price and when we're talking about DACs features have become the most important thing.

[@PassionforSound]

I disagree because sound quality is the first, second and third priority for me in a DAC. Of course, we're all different though.

[@V4zz33]

I've got a pair of V6 Vivid for sale if anyone is interested and lives in the EU.

[@crisjr6478]

Naim integrated, j3, ford super duty. 🤷🏼

[@CohibaJoe]

Sorry, I cannot finish the review as the background music is Very annoying.

[@PassionforSound]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I think the specific track I chose for this video might be the reason. I've taken note...

[@morgatil]

Got mine and added the Sparko on the rcas. It’s silly good.

[@PassionforSound]

Awesome. Enjoy!