Crime and Punishment - Fyodor Dostoevsky BOOK REVIEW Part 2 of 2 (SPOILERS)

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CRIME AND PUNISHMENT PART 1:
• Crime and Punishment -...
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[@Sachie465]

I don’t think Crime and Punishment claims to be a realistic novel. But it’s rare to get inside a murderer’s head and feel exactly as he feels. The stifling atmosphere intensifies the sense.

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

I mean I guess a lot of Dostoevsky's works can be a tad overstuffed, but I found the psychodrama in Crime and Punishment to be engaging enough to keep me hooked. As for the sentimentalism and moralizing, it is a Christian novel, so it's to be expected, but I think there's still a lot to be gotten from it aside from the religious stuff. I gotta say though, I'm loving the "fan sends Cliff book/Cliff shits on book" trend. 😂👍

[@marcelhidalgo1076]

Hahaha!

[@littledebby365]

🤣🤣

[@gavinritchie649]

Like Mr Abusing from the old Melody Maker...

[@dustinneely]

This review was a waste of time.

[@davidhillier2627]

Hey man glad you're actually willing to give your actual opinion about classics, unlike a lot of booktubers who generally just uncritically gush over them in order to appear well read. Keep it up!

[@Mark-nh2hs]

I noticed this too. I've always liked his reviews - concise and blunt when he needs to be.

[@TommyRogic18]

Nobody films a negative review as well as Cliff, but they are good in part for their rarity, makes them sincere.

[@Mark-nh2hs]

@@TommyRogic18 nods one head sagely

[@arthurtwoshed]

"To go wrong in one's own way is better than to go right in someone else's." Fyodor Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment😉

[@chickenwarrior3067]

Isn’t that immediately followed by antisemitism lol

[@deelak2329]

@@chickenwarrior3067 Oh lord. This book was written in the 1800's. Harden up.

[@philasoma]

I think you gave this book far too superficial of a read to give a good faith review. I'll give just one example. Svidrigailov's motivations and character are far more complex than you seem to think. While not expressly stated, Svidrigailov's relationship with Razkolnikov's sister is likely far deeper and more intimate than stated. We know this based on how the characters address one another during their confrontation in Svidrigailov's apartment. The characters address each other in the second person singular, and apparently in Russia characters only do this when they have some established relationship. As non-Russian speakers, we can learn this from the footnotes - your version actually has a number of footnotes that highlight this fact (I read the same version). So if you think that Svidrigailov is simply a nihilist with no sense of right and wrong, then yes his suicide makes no sense. But I think it's fairly safe to say that Svidrigailov is a man who entered into a marriage of convenience, lived his life without a moral compass, and then met a woman in Razkolnikov's sister who challenged him in a way he never had been before. I'm pretty sure it says the went hunting or something together and shared some meaningful moments together. They clearly shared a bond, perhaps even a hint of love. It created a scandal. And so Svidrigailov kills his wife to pursue Dunya but she could never be with a murderer and turns him down. When he is turned down, he realizes his demons and choices in life have prevented him a chance a true happiness that he only caught the briefest of glimpses of. And also, unrequited love is perhaps the oldest of motivations that drive characters to suicide. And so he goes to an officer of the law and turns a gun on himself. Rather than face punishment and heal through suffering, he escapes. It foils quite nicely with how Razkolnikov finally elects to heal.

[@captainhaddock6435]

I'm normally not the biggest fan of big, long 19th century novels, lots of them I find moldy and draggy. Crime and Punishment was the big exemption. I was completely hooked from the first page, couldn't lay it down, the intriguing and complex psychology of the characters, the incredible passion, emotion and raw bluntness of the prose, the inner monologues and philosophical ramblings of the main character, the bold brutality of the crime plot - I finished the thing in two days. Also, contrary to you, I found it quite unsentimental and pleasantly restrained in its Christian messaging. I also don't find formal or pacing issues - all those issues (pacing, Christian moralizing, general boredom) are far worse in Tolstoy (especially Anna Karenina) in my opinion. I'm normally a "live and let live" person, but I genuinelly can't comprehend how someone who loves stories and literature dislikes this book. But that's my problem because I am completely enamored. To each their own.

[@Damp_Toast]

I had the exact same reaction to both the story and his review of it. I'm glad he has the balls to give his honest opinion, but how he disliked it so much bewilders me.

[@davidnorris166]

Ironic Cliff calls the novel bloated when this review goes for over an hour.

[@yahyaj4845]

Agreed, hard not to think that this review is simply being disingenuous for the sake of stirring discord.

[@avery.a5948]

Whoa it took me like 6 months to finish crime and punishment

[@delgadojeremy]

Part 1 and Part 2 Reviews of this: AWESOME. These two convinced me to be a patreon. The brutal honesty and thoughtfulness of your reviews are fun to watch & listen to and its great to hear someone think through a book like you do. I was just writing a comment to Leaf by Leaf in a similar way and the two of you in very different ways add so much to my own reading and have opened up my bookshelf to works I wouldnt have considered before. Thanks!!

[@iameternalsunshine]

I’m just like Marmeladov, I like to crawl around shitty bars and tell fine young fellows about all my problems..KIDDING..maybe

[@mjakotka]

Love Dostoyevsky’s books and his quote “Your worst sin is that you've destroyed and betrayed yourself for nothing” from Crime and Punishment might be my favorite. I have read all his work (except “A writer’s diary”) during 2022 and now he is my favorite writer alongside with Cormac McCarthy. He is a very funny writer and this quality of his is very often ignored or overlooked.

[@whitelily3474]

Can you tell me a little bit about the background of the quote... I can't remember what chapter and who said it to whom...

[@mjakotka]

@@whitelily3474 Raskolnikov (a murderer) to Sonya (a prostitute), Part 4.

[@dallasfawson5332]

I’m torn with Crime and Punishment. I feel like it includes half a dozen or so of my favorite sequences in any novel, but that outside of those moments it’s a chaotic romp which leads from nowhere to nothing, and I’m definitely on team “epilogue sucks.” It was my second of his after Demons, which is also exhausting, but I enjoyed it much more overall.

[@someobserver844]

I don't think that the Luzhin subplot is inconsequential. If you look at it purely through the lens of plot, sure, it's kind of weird and pointless. But I think it works on an emotional and thematic level: Dunja breaking off the engagement with him opens up a more desirable family situation for Raskolnikov. I mean, his best buddy is now already pretty much part of the family and his plans and connections give them the prospect of a relatively secure and dignified future. But Raskolnikov can't take that path because he's a murderer whose soul is withering from guilt. The new situation just rubs it in how much he screwed himself; if he had not messed up, he could have been well of. I think how much one is going to like C&P depends on the standards one holds long novels in general to. I think pretty much all of them are rather rough around the edges and could use quite a bit of trimming, and that they inevitably have weaker characters and plotlines: the more ground writers have to cover, the harder it get's for them to write around their weaknesses. With some long novels it's just more obvious than with others.

[@720pchannel]

Dunja is essential to the plot. Everyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. This youtuber is one if them

[@husk1942]

I just discovered your channel and it's the best thing that has happend to me in quiet a while! A blessing for youtube!

[@iameternalsunshine]

This is my favorite book, I’m so glad you’ve decided to review it. It may not be better than food but still, there is no denying Russian authors had something special. Have you considered trying out Tolstoy, Pushkin, and Nabokov?

[@yacki6667]

Gogol is also very good author

[@iameternalsunshine]

@The Booked Escape Plan Don’t get me wrong, Gogol is great, I just feel like Nabokov is an easier entry point into Russian literature. I’ve yet to try out Chekhov, Gorky, Bunin, and Turgenev.. Very excited for the days where I can try them out.

[@iameternalsunshine]

@The Booked Escape Plan What is your favorite work by Gogol?

[@Skyjacker_]

Don't forget Gogol

[@saja3886]

I’ve been wanting to dive into Russian literature ever since i read The brothers Karamazov but i keep coming back to Dostoevsky’s novels? Would you be kind enough to recommend some Russian Novels as interesting as crime and punishment .

[@shelveswithstories13]

While this book is my all-time favorite, I hope you don't lose a lot of followers for being completely honest with your viewers. I appreciate that. Dostoevsky's descriptions of the under trodden and depraved stem from his personal interactions and observations of such people living during that era. He knew destitution, perhaps more than any author I have read so far. The characters in Crime and Punishment have been heavily inspired by real individuals. I do agree that Russian novels are notoriously known for their lengthy and tedious descriptions but for me, Dostoevsky still manages to convey his message in the most intense and feasible way.

[@Mark-nh2hs]

If people get offend that their fav book is not liked by someone and articulates why he doesn't like the book, really need to grow up lol.

[@shelveswithstories13]

@@Mark-nh2hs oh I assure you none of Dostoevsky's fans sound offended here, including me, because we aren't and no one should be. Ofcourse one loves to know someone liked their favourite book as much as they do, but even if one didn't, it's still fine.

[@user-cp9yo4jk9b]

It's perfectly reasonable to stop following KZbin channel if their taste is very different than yours. You don't have to be offended to make that decision

[@thescribe413]

Glad to hear someone’s honest opinion on it. While I personally love the novel I’ve seen a lot divided opinion on it lately. One thing to consider carefully however, would be translation. This can really make or break Dostoevsky as some translators not only faithfully adapt the work, but add to it by proper substitution of good English. Whereas a bad translation is full of errors and ends up being like reading an already difficult foreign work on top of a translators bad writing. I would encourage you to try it in a different translation and see if you find it better! Great review in either case

[@halout9767]

Great review! Greatest Russian novels are indeed lengthy and hard to get through at times, though I personally love this slow pace and the abundance of detailed descriptions and musings. The funny thing is in Russia Crime and Punishment is actually a compulsory read for 10th or 11th grade students...

[@dominicscott7704]

The only thing you should do with a Pevear and Volokhonsky translation is throw it in the trash. In case you don't know, Pevear doesn't speak Russian, his wife Volokhonsky translates the text literally in English and then it is rewritten to make it comprehensible. The result is a clunky, strict translation that sacrifices poetry and comprehensibility in order to churn it out as quickly as possible. They are only prolific because other translations are in the public domain and book companies market new translations as being an updated improvement - which they coincidently have the rights to sell. A better translation probably wouldn't have made you a fan of the book, but it would help make it less exhausting to read. That's been my experience reading Russian literature at least.

[@georgidimitrov2225]

One of my favorite books. Have a prestine copy of it published in 1972. I fell in love in Dostoevsky and russian literature in my university years not so long ago. Cliff, a small detail, which my professor pointed out, came to my mind when i saw the intro. In the book Razkolnikov kills with the dull end of the axe, not the sharp. The sharp end is pointing towards him hence he is killing himself also. You gotta re read and re read Dostoevsky because he is a master of small details that reveal whole new meaning. The colors also pay significant part in the novel.

[@howwwwwyyyyy]

I was going to have a go at an American -the country that's produced 1 classic in the entirety of its history having the cheek to criticize a Russian author, but a lot you say are true it is a bit lengthy.lol

[@Ryan_Ek2]

Great review, Cliff. I didn’t want to watch part one of your review until this video came out. I gave this book a couple of tries and yeah, each time I gave up around page 150. I agree, Dostoevsky was a better philosopher than a novelist. You might like Tolstoy more. In my opinion, he was a stronger fiction writer. His writing is more focused and more considerate of his audience. I recommend his novella, if you haven’t read it already, The Death of Ivan Ilyich.

[@shelveswithstories13]

great choice, I loved that novella

[@yohanessaputra9274]

I have just now finished The Death of Ivan Ilyich, but it was a slog to go through

[@anfauglir6834]

Unrelated but where did you get that beautiful jacket?

[@jungastein3952]

I am full of peeves and pecadilloes re: Dostoyevsky, nevertheless I have returned to reread his novels and stories for three decades.

[@uanditopia2239]

Smart man!

[@brunoactis1104]

A lot of what you said don't seem to reflect what actually happened, it's weird. The melodramatic stuff are shit that happened and still happen a lot in real life. Idgaf that you are a sheltered american that probably lived a normal american life; the shit that Sonia and her family went through, what her father did, all of that was and still is common. Also, i don't know where you got the part of "the moral superiority of suffering" part, that was literally the ending, not a running theme; and it wasn't exactly that, Rodia fucking killed two people and figured out he has to pay for it to cleam himself, for the sake of his sanity. He was gonna have a happy life with Sonia after finishing his sentence.

[@AlencarFaulkner]

So I take you won't be reading The Brothers Karamazov any time soon, right?

[@possessedslig]

I finished it not long ago myself. I had already read Nabokov's essay on Dostoevsky and his views certainly seem to align with yours. I have Lolita sitting on the shelf patiently awaiting my attention. Especially now, I'm quite eager to get stuck into it. Personally, I enjoy Dosteovsky's theatrical and exaggerated style and yes for me, perhaps, the reason I did enjoy it so much was that I just saw it as an out and out dark comedy. There were more than a few occasions I laughed out loud. The long winded monologues the characters go on espousing their entire philosophy are so ridiculous that I couldn't imagine it was written with the intention of being naturalistic and some characters seem to be little more than mouthpieces for said philosphical ideology. However, I just couldn't put it down, the murder is so suspenseful and Raskolnikov's subsequent mental turmoil won me over. I also seemed to find it less tedious than you, actually I found it quite the page turner. I followed it up with The Idiot which I didn't enjoy quite so much although I really enjoyed Part I, the rest just couldn't live up to it. Building myself up to The Brothers Karamazov as my next "big" read.

[@lunaestelle6699]

I absolutely love this review. I’ve been waiting for you to do this one !!!

[@pufyshoes]

I felt sorta similarly, and I think it has to do A LOT with the translation. When I did the Brother’s K after this one with the McDuff translation, it worked SO MUCH better.

[@gilbertpillbrow6978]

Yeah Pevear and Volokhonsky are terrible. People always just pick up a random translation, without giving it any thought whatsoever. The David McDuff and Oliver Ready translations are good. So is the Nicolas Pasternak Slate.

[@FisherKing9633]

I learned from the complete Columbo Box Set that the detective from this story, Porfiry, was one of the major inspirations for Lt. Columbo, the other being G.K. Chesterton’s Fr. Brown. I learned this before I read this book, and when I did read this book, I saw it as a proto Colombo episode. Which gave me mixed feelings about the final product. (Not a slight on Columbo. Or Fr. Brown for that matter, but I do have my issues with Fr. Brown. Don’t @ me) Much as I love Dostoevsky, it does feel so rushed and flabby. Some parts, like the dream at the end, are beautifully written and feel transcendent to the rest of the book. But then other parts, like you said Cliff, don’t really address the full depth of the questions they raise. I think Brothers Karamazov wrestled with the same problems and did it in a much better way. (I have no idea if Dostoevsky had more time to write Karamazov, but I personally believe he did). It just feels more complete and less flabby, though ironically, it’s longer than Crime and Punishment. Currently reading Moon is A Harsh Mistress by Robert A Heinlein. Anyone read it? Thoughts? For my money, you don’t have to worry about controversial opinions Cliff. You always raise good questions about the best works of literature and I wouldn’t have this channel any other way. Cheers

[@cormic8783]

Great review! Point out the good and the bad side. The arguments are there. If you don't agree, or want to differ - pick up the arguments! Most book-talks here are mostly only thumb up or down. Onyl praise or critic. Thanks! More of this please!

[@captain_cloudd]

Do you plan on reading The Brothers Karamazov?

[@sonybluraydisk]

I love your reviews precisely because of your no nonsense honest takes just like this one, especially when it's a novel with as much clout as this and the seeming pressure to have to like it. Thank you for your great videos, love from Austria.

[@montanagal6958]

I LOVE Dostoevsky, cried at the end. I love how Roskolnikov transforms throughout the book. He could have gotten away with it, but wanted redemption for his sin. One of my favorite parts is the feverish dream about the coming of Communism (some familiar themes). Enjoyed the intellectual stimulation, guess I'm a little neurotic. I felt like this book was the punishment for his crime, and in order to fully appreciate it, you gotta suffer through reading it. Appreciate your hanging with it and this book review!!!

[@What1drink]

The coming of communism is a very forced interpretation for the dream

[@tmsphere]

I don't remember that dream. Communism???

[@thomasstiehler9865]

@@tmsphere in the epilogue

[@What1drink]

@@tmsphere it’s nothing to do with communism the dream is about Raskolnikov coming to terms with his guilt and fault, realising what would happen in a world which followed his ideology which has nothing to do with communism. Of course this doesn’t stop right wing morons from forcing this interpretation on any pre-Soviet Russian literature.

[@colbyboucher6391]

Rodyon's dream says nothing about communism specifically or any other political stance. It only describes a world in which people allow their ideas about how the world should be to override basic compassion and sanity, all destroying each other in the process.

[@nikkivenable73]

Ngl, I was hoping this was his Best books of 2022. I’m absolutely NOT checking notifications several times a day in anticipation 😅.

[@girishgowda7661]

Hi Cliff, any plans on reading Toni Morrison? Beloved, Song of Solomon. I think you should give both of these a try.

[@losmuchachosmn]

Good review! Just finished reading it. The long and messy psychological descriptions of some characters is what made this book great to me. Mental despair feels like that to me. Also Sofia's character was a good representation of hope and humanity like the only glimpse of hope in the book, saving Raskoljnikov from insanity or spiritual death. The book did feel a little bit long sometimes but not for the most of it. PS: Sofia's dialogues in the middle and end of the book made me cry for her pure (even maybe caricature-like) nature. I like Dostoyevski's message that you can find hope in hell.

[@girishgowda7661]

One of those videos i can fully watch because I've actually read this one...i was 23, and can I admit that this was a hot mess without being crucified..... I'll definitely reread this at some point. Probably my thirties.

[@ileanaaaaa]

"I enjoyed struggling with it". That's exactly how I felt! I don't think I wasted my time by no means, but I don't think I will ever reread it either. 😆

[@destine1547]

The thing that sticks out to me about this book is the concept is more interesting than the execution and I truly think about 200-300 pages could have been chopped. It’s overly long. Which I think is by design because it meant at bigger payday at the time for the author

[@zachroberts6116]

big fan cliff, couple things. i know im not paying to ask, but there are a few books im interested in, but at this point i pretty much need your approval before i buy them: Notice by heather lewis, the room by hubert selby junior, and Suicide by edouard leve. they all should be right up your alley. also, i loved crime and punishment, do you have a suggestion for a book similar to this one that yhou enjoyed moreso?

[@shelveswithstories13]

I have a copy of The Room and now I will get to it! Thanks!

[@user-qr5xp9vp5n]

Sir, for explanation how good your review is: I am russian high school student who is learning Crime And punishment using your video. Much better than my teacher tbh.

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

Novels like this one remind why I don't prefer pre-shelled nuts; They completely remove my need of the nutcracker I inherited from my grandfather.

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

@The Booked Escape Plan Interesting. That's not what I meant, but I also agree xD What I meant is that sometimes we like things to be unnecessarily complicated because it feels more real because of nostalgia: Reading Dostoyevsky feels like reading "a proper novel" to me because it has that antiquated unoptimised style that I remember from a childhood not very well spent in the school library reading books I didn't understand at all but taught me a bunch of difficult words. Tbf, that might be a very specific experience enclosed in the shell of a more general one, and as I say; I very much prefer these days for the voice of the author to be a little more subdued given that we have movies now.

[@leak6729]

You missed something completely. He didn’t get the idea to murder just out of nowhere… he heard some young men in a bar talking about killing that same lady. Also, you’re wrong about a man like Svidgirailov. What he has done to women does not determine what he wants. He was a sick man that wanted an idea of a woman that he didn’t have the methods or means to either attain or keep, with all of his perverse failures haunting him If you read Idiot by Dostoevsky, you’ll find a whole self-aware section about how his characters are almost an ‘epitome’ of emotions/beliefs. I won’t go into detail but it’s worth looking into as he is aware of this It’s funny how some people found this book tedious and others (like myself) found it one of the most engaging and quick reading experiences i’ve had. I think it may grow in you. I disagree about your assessment of Sonia. I’ve known someone quite like her… and i’m not sure that you’d be allowed to get too graphic about the life of a prostitute in his time. But really, I got more out of Notes from Underground, Idiot, and (especially) Brothers Karamazov. p.s. your lack of mentioning ivan petrovich and razumikhi.n confuses me. they were like candles outlining the shadow of a human which is raskolnikov. his interactions with those two characters are, to me, clearly integral to defining him as relatable and partially humane i agree that katerina’s death scene was overtly flamboyant. though i don’t think that you should discredit something purely based off of improbability of intensity i love your videos but this time you PISSED me off, man! hahaha

[@loukiadams5340]

your review is better than Cliff's! lol absolutely loved this book!

[@montanagal6958]

love your review

[@Neat0_o]

You’re definitely the best book reviewer on KZbin, man. I appreciate you not giving a damn about the popular opinion. Stay true to yourself.

[@burke9497]

Great review as always. All of Dostoyevsky’s books are a mess, but I love to read him. Especially the Brothers K and The Idiot. And Notes from Underground is what got me into him. A very underrated book by Dostoyevsky is The House of the Dead. Thanks Cliff!

[@johncope7920]

I hope that at some point you'll have the opportunity to read Paul Theroux's "Chicago Loop", one of my favorite novels and also a take on this text (and better than the original as far as I'm concerned). Also, check out Sokurov's "Whispering Pages" for his take if you have not yet already. A tremendous and visionary cinematic work. I can't help but think you'll find something of interest there.

[@golubhimself]

You said how you wouldn't care if you lost subscribers, but honestly, I'm a new subscriber and I'm staying just because of your stance, even though I disagree with your interpretation on important points. In fact, I will be staying because you offer engaging and well thought perspectives, because I like the way you challenge beliefs. I came here because of The Tortured Garden, good review! But I've read CaP recently and it's a great review.

[@gus1591]

I agree that the book is indeed boring. It is painful to read it trought and sometimes it is a "mess". But regarding the philosophical content, I kind of disagree. I don't think Raskolnikov is an attempt to represent every cold blooded assassin. For me, Raskolnikov is an attempt to represent people who believe themselves to be nihilistic supermans. Raskolnikov is the kind of person who thinks that he is above the rest of society and its moral codes (a 19th century norman bates, or Camu's Stranger). And he is so sure of it that he even kills a random person,so he can prove to himself that he is that psychopathic inhuman person. But he is not, he is just a depressed and lonely kid, who is trying to find more meaning to life than there is, trying to give himself a purpose that he doesn't have. I think Dostoevsky's point is not against nabokov and Lolita, but against The Stranger, Taxi driver and these sorts of stories. And accepting religion is Dostoevsky's way to say that Raskolnikov is indeed just a man thats lacks a purpose, as Dostoevsky's view of purpose is his religion. But you do have a point when you say Raskolnikov never really has to confront a true psychopath, Svidrigailov is not that guy. Dostoevsky loses points on this one.

[@v.cackerman8749]

I swear, one day I’m going to read this book.

[@murrayr7703]

"I live in this world" yes and Dostoevsky lived in his world 120 years ago.

[@Skyjacker_]

I think it's important to remember that Dostoyevsky spent four years in a gulag among many murderers, and so I expect he wasn't as naive about such people as the book may lead someone to think. I agree that it does seem a stretch to imagine a thoughtful, philosophical and sensitive person killing an old lady with an axe. Then again, Nazi Germany was considered to be one of the most civilized countries on earth in the 1930's and look what they ended up doing. Many members of the SS and Einsatzgruppen killing squads had formerly been doctors and teachers, etc. Dostoyevsky's point, fleshed out even more in 'The Possessed' and 'The Brothers Karamazov' was that ideologies can drive people to extremes of violence.

[@montanagal6958]

and the support they received

[@franzwilde89]

In order to access Dostoyevsky’s philosophy of evil, you must read his BROTHERS KARAMAZOV

[@alf5948]

Tedious indeed. After 3/4 I couldn’t take anymore and put it down for over six months. I finally finished it, walking away, thinking, “meh.” Yes, the psychology of Raskolnikov dealing with his state of mental health is interesting. But as a story in and of itself, this was a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. And now I’m reading that the various translations are causing differing opinions on the work. Great. I hope I just didn’t read 580 pages of misdiagnosed prose! With that being said, I do plan on reading more of Dostoevsky’s works. Thanks for the honest review. It’s nice to know that I’m not alone regarding this classic piece of literature.

[@Jacobthehuman]

Go for the brothers K. I found it to be much better and fun to read. I would like to hear your thought on it. Thanks for the literary good times.

[@reaganwiles_art]

This title pretty much says it about most of Dostoyevsky's most famous novels, but there are buried in those clots of neurotic underbrush and spiderholes some real gems, a couple of scintillant diamonds. The Gambler, The Double, "The Dream of a Ridiculous Man" and The Eternal Husband are immortal tales.

[@milfredcummings717]

Your thoughts on this novel are disturbingly similar to mine. Nevertheless, Dostoevsky is one of the best psychologist writers. Demons is his best novel. The Brothers Karamazov might be better, but I've never read the whole book, so I can't be sure. Have you read Max Stirner? The first half of The Idiot is also great.

[@poeticdiscourse]

20:48 this part made think of Mike Leigh's film "Naked". Not an easy watch at all, but very much in the same vein. And the difference is there is a character that's so nasty he seems like a demonic apparition in juxtaposition with a character he who's not fully committed to evil, yet certainly not committed to good either. In fact its a horrible movie, but I suppose if you're interested in individuals at war with life and themselves and deep, self-inflicted misery, its a must-see. The difference is Leigh sees nothing redemptive in such suffering, its just painful, hurts others and is unnecessary. Personally I think Crime and Punishment is at the pinnacle of literature, albeit not in form, so I enjoyed seeing someone tear it apart and not like it. Great review. Thanks for challenging me

[@danielprice6387]

Love that movie

[@Watchoutforwerewolves]

@@danielprice6387 one of my favorite movies

[@carloscano8848]

Agree with your review. Hopefully you review the brothers karamazov

[@zan8152]

Honestly amazing job grappling with this work, with its status and impact - as much as you didn't like it, you so clearly dug through the good and bad I think it'd be pretty easy for anyone who disagrees to not feel shorted, or to understand why. At least I hope they'd be reasonable, you never know with the internet. Great review.

[@shaneeffinger8283]

Smerdyakov is a damned interesting take on evil in TBK. Verkhovensky in Possessed, too, is peculiarly damned. Of course those works reach past the nature of evil in their aim, but after this review your take on the more distilled Dostoevsky would grab my Eye.

[@Kyle-ys3cv]

If you think C&P is all over the place, wait until you read Great Expectations- you’ll think C&P is a masterpiece, comparatively. I doubt you’d be “able” to get through it. That review, I’d like to see.

[@olav1354]

Reading publicly looks pretty nice!

[@ravigahlla]

I agree with you on the tediousness. There were parts of introspection that did draw me in, and made me feel like we’re all similar, but just in different time frames. But man, it was a tedious read at times

[@TheHundredHeads]

Im sorry but I don’t think you read the novel properly. I’m pretty sure you mentioned the descriptions of cold in the first video. It’s almost always hot in the novel. The first line mentions the heat. Maybe you didn’t like his prose, most people don’t, but clearly you’ve missed some huge aspects to this novel

[@BetterThanFoodBookReviews]

I think I got the main ideas. But, you are correct about the heat, that was my mistake.

[@montanagal6958]

it appears to have an emotional connection

[@jamesnetwall1193]

A lot of vitriol. It makes me wonder if your viewership has been dipping a little bit cuz this is a real hot take. That being said no, I respect the fact that you're willing to be straight up about something and not every authorist for everybody. Personally I love the book. Agree to disagree. Yours is one of my favorite channels of all time you want to do disagree with you I still love the passion that you put into a love of reading. Stay awesome sir.

[@uanditopia2239]

Totally.

[@tariqabdullah7044]

I think he read a different novel than everyone else lol. This is the first time i have ever heard someone critique C&P like this (which is respectable). I would recommend reading an analysis of it. I would also like to say that it wasn't really rushed. The debts he got into was his brothers who passed away. He started writing it over the summer of 1965 and released the first part in janurary of 1966 and it was released part by part throughout that year. 1.5 years is longer than what most authors take to write and even in that "short" time wrote one of the best novels ever written.

[@jackbarton4938]

I have to say mate, I'm a massive fan of Dostoyevsky, and adore Notes from Underground, The Idiot, and particularly The Brothers Karamazov, which is probably my favourite 19th century novel, but I've always thought Crime and Punishment was very overrated and it's great to hear someone else criticise it. Also nice in general, since I'm sick of book reviewers on KZbin seeming to love every book they read. If all books are great, then none of them are.

[@KDbooks]

I'm fine... no, no, really, I'm fine. This is fine. All fine. Not even upset, nope, nada, nothing, it's fine. I'm fine.

[@userth13539]

That's art. Same happening with me and the Passenger. I love other McCarthy works.

[@rayanknezic8682]

Good one.

[@EpicAirGuitarist]

You should review The Sinner and The Saint. That is a great book.

[@acherontas666]

Btw cliff, in case u didnt know already, Woody Allen's Crimes and misdemeanors was a direct response to C&P

[@jackjordan4832]

Man, this was difficult for me to hear, but I think your criticism holds a lot of weight. As a person who has been obsessing and pouring over this novel for the last two years, and has written a thesis about it, I think I was also reading it with rose tinted glasses. I truly did have all of these thoughts along the way, but I think the illusion is this: there is a difference between the way we look at contemporary literature vs. the pedestal we assume the classics uphold. We take the quality of the classics for granted.

[@counsellor_718]

Agree on a lot of the points presented in the video but ultimately I would still say it's 'Better Than Food' in my own mind, by a narrow margin but still. There are many reasons to like and dislike the book but I just wanted to mention: First, as many have echoed - you're essentially reading the mind of a manic and neurotic murderer, which was what I really wanted when I started reading the book. Second and ultimately what made me regard this as 'Better Than Food' was how Dostoevsky presented Luzhin - Dunya and Svidrigailov - Dunya. It's obvious both males were trying to manipulate Dunya, and when met with failure, manipulate the surrounding circumstances to get to Dunya, and that's something I was not expecting when I picked up the book and I was pleasantly surprised at how well written it was. In my mind, Dostoevsky was just a distinguished 19th century male Russian author/philosopher, certainly not someone I expected to note, much less write about the nuances of manipulation in a relationship. One instance of this was the official meeting with Luzhin, Dunya, Rodya and Pulkheria (Part 4, Chapter 2). Luzhin at one point said, in reference to a letter than he sent to Pulkheria detailing most notably how Rodya gave all his money to Sonya, not the widow (which we know is incorrect) - "the sole reason I enlarged upon your (Rodya) qualities and actions was to satisfy thereby the request of your sister and mama to describe for them the state in which I found you and the impression you made on me." So manipulative to suggest that the unfair description of Rodya was purely to satisfy the mother and sister, as if there were no other way of writing.

[@joelclark5458]

Actually gained at least one subscriber

[@jshizzay]

I respect your opinion and love your reviews but this is the only one I have disagreed with you upon. For sure it is long-winded and moralistic. However, I would read at least two more of Dostoevsky's large-scale works before coming to such a messy judgment. Crime and Punishment is a very sporadic novel, which illustrates the mindset of the main character. And yes, it is an earlier work, but he countered it with Idiot a couple of years later. And then Demons brings a way more political perspective that I found fascinating (Demons is my favorite of his, so I am biased). It all comes to a head with Brothers Karamazov, but I would suggest staying away of you did not enjoy Crime and Punishment. However, I do like that there is someone out there that I respect who didn't enjoy Crime and Punishment!

[@r.m.ocinneide6935]

I think the naïveté with svidrigailov might be due to poor translation, and maybe Dostoevsky not so much seeking to contend with evil with the character. In the Katz translation it’s significantly clearer that he kills himself because he realizes that despite his “transcendence” of conventional morality, he will persist though life without any admiration or love. Given the vanity he displays earlier in the book it makes more sense.

[@michaelshultz8973]

I appreciate your honesty, man, but this reminds me of Tolstoy's criticism of Shakespeare. I think you're condemning C&P for not being what it was never intended to be. The characters are more Dickensian than naturalistic, but that's not a flaw. The suffering in the story is relentless and over-the-top, but it's purposefully so. It was likely intended to exhibit the conditions under which a moral schismatic like Raskolnikov could come to be. Plus the poverty of so many of the characters makes Raskolnikov's argument (that it would be right to kill one greedy old money lender to help many needlessly suffering people) more difficult to resist; it makes the moral dilemma much more compelling. I certainly don't think he intended to glorify suffering, or to say that it's inherently noble. On the contrary, he portrays Marmeladov's family's suffering as sordid, and farcical (I feel that it actually was intended to be darkly comical at times). There's nothing noble about suffering in Dostoevsky's work. He shows the nobility of choosing to live *in spite of* suffering. I hope you give this book another shot eventually. I know it's not the kind of book you're dying to dive right back into once you're out of it, though lol.

[@michaelshultz8973]

Also, I think reading The Brothers Karamazov would help - it appears to me to be his most planned-out novel, and it definitely demonstrates a lot of Dostoevsky's beliefs in a more intelligible way than C&P does. Definitely, definitely read it at some point.

[@soren81]

I can understand many of the criticisms, but I'm sorry to hear, that you will not reread it. All of Dostoyevskij's novels grow a lot when reread. Also, I want to point out, that almost all of the things you did not like about Crime and Punishmen, are exactly the same things that you have said makes The Story Of The Eye your favourite novel. Anyway, you're not losing a subscriber here, just lettiing you know, that a second read might change things. It did for me.

[@bobcabot]

...R u a fan of the "Miami-Heat"? ( Katzenbach and Rice are...

[@blue---monday]

I agree with everything you said. I experienced every thoughts that you had but with The Brothers Karamazov. Truly, truly the most disappointing read for me in 2022. It especially kinda hurt because I just always assumed that I was going to effortlessly enjoy Dostoevsky all this time, simply from hearing about how people described his excellence. What's interesting though, was Anna Karenina being one of the best books I read that year as well. In the end I found out, in terms of stylistical preference (among other things), you can't be a fan of both Tolstoy and Dostoevsky really. You're either a Tolstoy person, or a Dostoevsky person. The way each of them approached writing was quite literally completely opposite to one another. So yeah all in all I also hated Dostoevsky's writing and the people around me also chastised me for it lmao. I don't care though. I'm not alone in thinking Dostoevsky's writing as cheap and sensationalist. During his lifetime Tolstoy himself also ruthlessly criticized Dostoevsky's works with the same complaints as mine. But I mean style is one thing right. Another thing which ultimately irked me the most was its substance. 100% raised my hands up when you said that there's this whole flavor of moralistic dogmatism that was not subtle at all in his works. I agree completely! This was even worse in TBK than in C&P mind you. I found the motivation behind all his plot-driving nihilistic and atheist characters as unconvincing. The criticisms of nihilism and atheism ended up as merely interesting strawmen, and the defenses of Orthodox Christianity were either unconvincing, under-supported, or juvenile by contemporary standards. I don't mind religious discussions as well as views opposing to mine in literature. But it just often seemed like I'm flat out reading D's own personal beliefs and views being masked as belonging to his characters. He's spoon-feeding readers his personal views, which, probably unbeknown to him, have not been tacitly disguised. There's no subtlety. It's noticeable, blatant, and uncomfortable. D's mastery of his craft was such that it constantly intruded on the story, Not only did I find it inelegant, I found it as straight-up lazy. You cannot spoon-feed your readers morality. Morality is to be learned and realized.

[@shelveswithstories13]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. It still doesn't reduce Dostoevsky's genius ;)

[@blue---monday]

@@shelveswithstories13 I mean that's fine! I understand that people have different tastes. But I still think that he strawman(ed) his characters lmao

[@shelveswithstories13]

@@blue---monday I pity people who got into his novels thinking they will be blown away by well-integrated story, characters, pristine plot structure, etc. His books are kinda messy, and so is human life. I am aware that he was more of a philosopher than a writer but the way he fleshes out the innermost conflicts inside the mind of his characters is amazing. While we may dislike some aspects of such well-known books, we still need to be clear about that author's perspective for writing it. For me, I struggled with books like The Bell Jar and The Catcher in the Rye but I was still aware of the message their respective authors were trying to put out. I think as a reader, this is one of the simplest things we can do.

[@amandadimeo]

I happened to be reading this around the same time as you so I waited to watch both parts of your review until after I’d finished and I’m so glad I did. I could not agree more - characters felt like caricatures, Sonya felt completely underdeveloped, it wasn’t even clear to me that Svidrigailov was supposed to be some moral foil to Raskolnikov because of how weak the character was. I’ll give Notes from the Underground a shot but I really couldn’t believe my disappointment when I closed this one. Great review from you as always, you put a lot of my thoughts into words

[@ItsTooLatetoApologize]

I didn’t really like Crime and Punishment either. I could see the merits of what it was trying to tell me and how the first half of the book went about doing it, but in the end I agree with you. I didn’t really feel invested in the characters which is ok if the ideas being presented are compelling, but I didn’t feel that they were. But like you also, I think some of the most important thoughts one can have is to understand exactly why something didn’t really speak to you deeply. That is the most interesting thing to me, and in that way Crime and Punishment is worth everyone’s time to read, both if you like and even if you don’t. But I guess the irony of that, Cliff, is that you enjoyed suffering through this novel. 🤔😎😉 Great review. Loved watching it.

[@egonhansson8455]

The similarities to James Cameron are striking, and nice review

[@fotinikalamvoki2354]

Could you do a book review on never let me go by kazuo ishiguro

[@brendenodell4059]

There are certainly problems with the book, the ending is rushed, it is long-winded seemingly without reason (a trait many classics of this era have), it is Christian, etc. But, oddly, a lot of the rationale for this critique was that there was not enough good guy/bad guy stuff in it? I think you may be getting rather conservative in your old age. Also, I felt that it missed the point of the novel itself. In the beginning, R feels he is doing good by killing the first woman. At this point he believes what you believe that there are evil people in the world and the world would be better off without them, so he kills one. Yet this cold moralizing logic doesn't sit well with him afterward. An understatement I know. His previous logic about good and bad in the world falls apart when he experiences what it feels like to have caused such harm. At which point his GG/BG BS falls away and he realizes he is just a murderer. You are right he is less upset about this awful person being dead than he is about what the act has made him into. The only other thing I noted from your video was a serious misunderstanding and/or disregard for what 19th Russian poverty actually was. Have we gotten a little too comfortable in modern-age America to recognize that kind of “weakness” that comes from eating half a potato a day so that your body can function long enough for it to be sold for use? As you noted the author himself visited and interviewed many such people at the time, so it feels odd to discount his personal experience on the matter in favor of one’s own heated and air-conditioned experience. A tad melodramatic though, we can both agree. Lastly, it seems as if Dostoevsky anticipated nearly all of your criticisms in that last piece you read. So I found it kind of funny that you read it unironically; or unwittingly, I'm not sure which. Of course, if you remain personally unconvinced by the idea that the world is messier than GG/BG, because of the news you read (personally I don't see that many cases of what you are talking about with the psychopaths, I mean what is it one in every some odd ten of thousands that's a serial killer of the caliber you have ascribed? maybe too many true crime podcasts for you?; plus isn't the belief in evil just a religious one as well?), and that the book contradicts your own political/religious views, then I do understand it's certainly not a book with the kind of rhetoric for you. Perhaps try a Tom Clancy novel, they must assuredly start with a premise of evil people doing bad stuff that must be stopped at all costs ;) Playful, loving snark aside, I’m glad you stuck to your guns and read it! Sometimes the most informative reading is reading stuff we don’t like so we better know how to appreciate/understand those books we do love.

[@watermelontreeofknowledge8682]

Nothing wrong with Crime & Punishment being Christian. Great books like Crime and Punishment are integrally religious because they speak to what we all yearn for and our duties to give laud to things unseen. All the best to you!

[@Elisabeth_9]

Someone's projecting and looking for a fight.

[@brendenodell4059]

I didn’t mean to come across as fighting. I love Cliff’s videos, I just had a minor disagreement on two points in this one. I’m not sure what could be considered projecting here.

[@brendenodell4059]

@Lev Mikhov You know I was defending the book in my comment, right? Perhaps your 'Christian bias' got in the way of recognizing that. And it is most certainly a major fault in the book, not necessarily for its author being Christian in general, but for its hand-wavy attempt to sum up its arguments on the last page with a conversation that comes out of nowhere. I don't think it's an unpopular opinion to say the book is better without that final page. Also, that comment was to Cliff, who is most certainly not a Christian. It was not written to a man named Lev who thinks that if I don't like one thing about a book that I should "go do somthing else"; presumably, since your obviously Christian, that means I should go to hell. Again you missed the part where I was defending the book, I really love that book, my cat's named after Raskolnikov. And unlike the sorts of atheists, I assume you're used to dealing with, I have the utmost respect for religious people, discluding dogma, because, well, I don't have any answers so who's to say yours are wrong. Or Muslims, or Jews, or Hindus, or Buddhists even though they rarely show respect for one another. I like morally conscious people. It's why I like Raskolnikov as a character, a flawed idealist. However, his ending fails to create a moral consciousness and falls into pure dogma, which is without a doubt a flaw.

[@athousandgreatbooks]

Perhaps, you didn't like the book because you read it over such a long time and were also reading or listening to other books at the same time (or in between parts) . I've always found that classics are best read alone (without any companion books or any other books on the side) for a few reasons - 1. If you start reading other books, you lose the thread and the tone of your main book. You forget the character motivations and psychology, hell, even their names, something that is unique to Russian tomes. You let go of the author's hand guiding you, the feel and the function of scenes, and when certain events go down in the book, they feels unearned, like a sentimental mess that wants to tug at your heart when the heart is away somewhere scattered. The effect seems shallow. 2. Classics ought to be lived with. They're obsessions. They're your jealous pals who won't open up their treasure troves properly if other books are consumed alongside them. Ofc, these things are personal, and if your takeaway is different from others, well, it's all very well. I'll always check your reviews out because of your honest opinions and impressions. Although I would like you to give the book you're reading all that it requires from you. How can you tell? Well, give it time. Maybe it'll make itself known - whether it's a book that wants your full attention, or something that doesn't mind sharing your company. And Cliff, my dear friend, I'm not saying you didn't read it properly. You have been my idol. Without you, I wouldn't be reading. But man, I swear, someday, when there are no other compulsions, give it another go. Like all good books, it'll change with life and times.

[@forluvi]

I read this book without knowing anything about dostoievski. So at the end when there's a bit of religious comotion I thought it was criticism. Also happened when I read the Brothers Karamazov. I was sure that the author was a non religious person making religous criticism. And I was so confused when I found out he was an orthodox cristian. Like that man clearly had a different view of religion at least.

[@coreyjenrette8060]

I just finished this one last night and I agree with you. This thing is a drag. There are some great moments in the book but man does it lull. The actual crime part was good and part 6 and the epilogue were good. Everything in-between was just so disorganized and excruciating to follow. I wanted love it but I unfortunately can’t say I do.

[@onepiecefan74]

You should give "The Violent Bear it Away" by Flannery O'Conner a go. Its themes are very similar to Crime and Punishment but its a much better book.

[@phillaysheo8]

This book sat on my bookshelf for 10 years. Today I finished it. I had a mix of emotions reading it good and bad. Glad to watch an honest review like this one.

[@deanaz41]

Great review. Love to hear your thoughts on Nietzsche and his views on Christianity ‘the religion of pity’ : “Christianity has taken the side of everything weak, base, failed; it has made an ideal out of whatever contradicts the preservation instincts of a strong life; it has corrupted the reason of even the most spiritual natures by teaching people to see the highest spiritual values as sinful, as deceptive, as temptations” …Blessed are those that mourn..that suffer..

[@montanagal6958]

didn't he go mad?

[@gabriellasantos6318]

I think the shallow portrayal of women probably reflects Dostoevsky’s own prejudices of the time. I've read a bunch of him, and many of the women in my opinion seem more archetypal then the men. But to me as a woman, I find that to be common with the classics, men are writing these novels from their own perspetives. That being said, I really love this book, mostly because the struggle of good and evil, is one that we all have with ourselves, it's universal, genderless. and he presents it in such a powerfull way. I also don't. feel like the novel's resolutions for the characters is necessarilly supposed to signify what the awnswer for the struggle between good and evil is. I guess for me in the end, each character just does what they can, they cope how they can, and isn’t that what we all do?

[@sambhavsingh7415]

Women in dostoevsky will either be really fleshed out or will be really archetypal. There's no in between.

[@shelveswithstories13]

@@sambhavsingh7415 exactly.

[@user-cp9yo4jk9b]

Consider the judge and the kid from blood meridian to be the successful version of what svidrigailiev and raskolnikov could've been.

[@murrayr7703]

completely different eras

[@marcelhidalgo1076]

To quote Anthony Fantano (Cliff's influence), " y'all know this is just my opinion, right?"

[@rhysholdaway]

I'm glad I am not the only one to dislike this book. Wish I could review this myself but have never been able to finish it. Maybe that should be my New Years Resolution.

[@ThePiratemachine]

I think the 'mess' just makes it like real life.

[@NjIceTea]

The P&V translation of this might be their worst effort. You owe it to yourself to try another one! I highly recommend the Penguin McDuff or the Penguin Deluxe Oliver Ready or the Michael Katz edition or even the Constance Garnett. Don’t let a bad translation ruin this great book for you!

[@rustyshackelford934]

Agreed, McDuff’s are the best translations. Supposedly, far truer to the original language. I’ve heard P&V try and “fix” Dostoevsky, and in the process suck some of the soul of the novels. I mean maybe it’s the translation or it’s just me, but I didn’t find it tedious at all. I read in about a week or two, with great ease. Sorry, ya had a bad experience with it. It’s not my favorite Dostoesvky, but it think it is definitely an important novel. Maybe it’s just not for everyone though. You and I generally have fairly similar taste though. But, no I do agree with some of the examinations of the characters. You make fair points, that I wasn’t able to articulate when I read it myself.

[@vincentparker1281]

I have and read the Garnett version and Cliff is still correct about its tediousness and desperate attempts to provoke an emotional response. The translation doesn't change the unnecessary and long winded details and scenes. They're still there.

[@rustyshackelford934]

No, I can agree on the emotional response comment. There are times where he is clearly trying to pull something from you. I guess it just didn’t bother me too much, because of everything else surrounding it. And as for the writing being tedious, I didn’t feel it any more than any novel from that time period. Cause like Cliff brings up, back then you got paid by the page. It just didn’t bother me. To each his own though.

[@Etherchannel]

Unless you can read the original Russian it’s hard to come to a conclusion on best translation.

[@Adamptorres235]

Exactly. I used to think I just wasn’t a fan of the Russians until a friend told me to stop reading P&V translations. I’d had to slog my way though their translation of Brothers K but after reading Garnett’s I’d probably put it somewhere in my top 10 or 20 favorite books. Hate to totally trash them and I can’t imagine how difficult their job must be. But my God, I couldn’t get anything out of their translations.

[@alexiphigenia1618]

Many humans are caricatures. I guess we need books to provide us with a break from them. This book defeats that purpose.

[@PadraigTomas]

Your transition to your sponsor made me laugh.

[@Mement0o]

All this research and you dont understand that the characters being all the time in hysterics and overly dramatic is his style. His characters do not hide their inner self. All social fakeness is removed. That is the point of everything. That is why it is the opposite of bloated and filler because there is no pretending. That is how wrong expectations can ruin your experience of the book. Also this story has nothing to do with feeling remorse or atoning for sins. It is much deeper than that. I understand this is you honest opinion. All i am saying is you had the wrong impresion and it made you miss the essence. If the book was the way you portait it, a bloated mess, it wouldnt be so beloved by so many generations.

[@montanagal6958]

deepness can be missed

[@secularperspective9997]

"Cardboard cutouts meant to represent people in service of a morality tale." You just described McCarthy's, The Road.

[@KDbooks]

🤣so true it hurts

[@mariocoelho9380]

I agree, but at least the Road has much better prose.