Cormac McCarthy - Stella Maris BOOK REVIEW (SPOILERS)

[@whoiswheeler]

There has never been a line that closes a book that floored me as hard as this one "....thats what people do when they're waiting for the end of something."

[@tomjoadism]

"Hold my hand..."- oof. Yeah. That was a clencher

[@chuckhardesty]

It froze me. Probably stared at the page for ten minutes before I closed the book and took a shower.

[@dM-ij1we]

…and whilst holding the book. We are literally holding McCarthys hand.

[@psychicdriver4229]

Yep, that one killed me... and then it all made sense

[@veniceismine1]

RIP To Cormac, the greatest author I’ve read.

[@user-cp9yo4jk9b]

"I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.” -Ralph Waldo

[@bronzeandsteel3344]

This book gave me comfort. I was labeled as a gifted student as a kid and I, though I used to think that was a underhanded accusation of autism, I now think just means someone who thinks too much. Active minded. I struggle with thoughts. With how constant they are and how overwhelming my own mind can be. There's never a moment of peace, where the continuum of my lucid thought gives me any repose. It's just endless, and often makes me miserable. But reading this book, reading how this young woman thinks, gave me some kind of comfort, I think. There are people who have it so much worse, and who truly suffer with pondering their own minds, and hating what they see.

[@Eveningredening]

I think of the two novels as two separate dreams, like two quarks a universe away from one-another, but still interlinked and ready to fire in response to one another’s impulse. The damnation of not just an unrequitable love from the incestual standpoint, but of a fission in reality that doesn’t allow for either to exist for the other beyond the brushstrokes of the two books’ bindings. A line that stands out was Alicia mentioning Bobby’s fear of depths. He was afraid of the implications of their love, of plumbing it and consummating it with her. His regret-worn afterlife dream begins with a failed attempt to find a missing person under the water, whereas Alicia thought long and hard about finding terminus in Lake Tahoe. Failing this, Bobby takes to his plow and goes to the deepest oceanic depths- a drill into the ocean floor.

[@r.k.theartist9189]

Finished this incredible read yesterday. Perfect timing, Cliff! Great to hear your thoughts when nobody I know is reading authors like McCarthy, let alone reading at all.

[@MatthiasVargas]

Rereading the first page of the passenger after reading Stella maris really makes it hit different

[@brandonkindt1205]

Indeed. I've started to reread The Passenger and some of the Alicia sections that seemed like gibberish now make more sense. The archetron sub-plot has suddenly appeared.

[@sirotahaggen]

@@brandonkindt1205 Think I'm now gonna have to re-read the passenger with the Archetron in mind

[@user-bk4gh3uz1e]

Thanks for the tip! I was confused reading that the first time around with no context. Reading it after SM makes it much more clear.

[@shanabana22]

I was thinking the same thing

[@ilamtung1977]

Absolutely, I did the same

[@ubik2388]

Another great review. Those last lines of the novel are like a punch in the gut, even more so knowing they very well may be the last published words from McCarthy.

[@aidanmcguckin1756]

Literally just finished it. Left in awe, so much to unpack in this book. Overall I really enjoyed it, definitely a challenge in some parts, but that makes the concepts just as satisfying when you do understand them. I also got that sense of wanting to try doing math again. Alicia's ideas made me think about how the math they teach in schools lack the proper foundation and how people might enjoy doing it more if they had a better idea of the philosophical monolith that mathematics can be.

[@MohamedMohamed-tr2rz]

Me too ❤

[@kotymcneal8589]

A suggestion for a live event: Cliff shows up and reads to us something he wants to share with us. And stops to tell us what he thinks about that passage, and maybe there's audience questions. Cliff continues to read. Wine will be provided. Just like one of your episodes but, instead of talking to a camera you talk to the audience. Like a one man show.

[@MikeWiest]

I came to these new books only about a month after I discovered Blood Meridian-and was blown away by it. I don’t know if McCarthy’s other books follow the Blood Meridian pattern, but because of Blood Meridian I came to The Passenger and Stella Maris on high alert for cleverly hidden clues to DEVASTATING REALIZATIONS to come. I was ready to interpret characters partly as allegories. I was also looking for a momentous climax of some kind in the book’s last few pages, like in Blood Meridian. Right now I judge the new books POSITIVELY: they tried something original and ambitious and arguably succeeded. But I can see a rational reader taking a NEGATIV PERSPECTIVE, which might be summarized something like this: “McCarthy is just vomiting up his pet philosophical musings through the mouth of a genius character in his story; the genius character is not realistic; the love story is not compelling.” I’ll mention one other specific concrete flaw in the books below, but now let me turn to my positive interpretation of the story. The story can be said to be “about” multiple things, but let me start with the suggestion that The Passenger is about schizophrenia, or more broadly: ways we try to attribute meaning to the events of our lives. We are reminded in the text that there is a genetic component to schizophrenia. The sister is diagnosed with some kind of (atypical) schizophrenia. Meanwhile the brother discusses various paranoid theories with people he knows. To quote Nirvana, “just because you’re paranoid, don’t mean they’re not after you.” When The Kid comes to visit the brother, I saw that as a dramatic confirmation that the brother has a milder case of whatever the sister has. No magical (or quantum physical) explanations are required, since he has heard her describe The Kid in detail. Two possible, hypothetical routes to some kind of salvation for the brother or sister appear in the story. One is their LOVE. In other works of literature, love is often presented as the purpose or meaning of life; and we are told that love conquers all. The brother and sister represent a deep and pure tragic love like that between Romeo and Juliet. The other potential path to salvation in the books is MATH, PHYSICS, PHILOSOPHY-some kind of intellectual or transcendental insight or mode of being that might “make it all worthwhile.” As I read I was looking for some way the two (love and math-physics) could be married to create some kind of consummation of their love, or redemption and peace, or something. So now the story is not just about schizophrenia, and I would say it’s not really about math, or the atomic bomb, or the Kennedy assassination either. It’s about whether there is a way to interpret life that is not…nihilistic or absurd or tragic. At least for these characters. We start with the puzzle of the missing passenger in the submerged plane. We realize that is not where we are going to get answers. These characters are also past looking for ultimate answers from organized religion. So we (they) are left with love, or modern physics and math. Over the course of the story we are presented with various dreams and hallucinations that might be clues to some transcendental reality in which the lovers are able to fulfill Alicia Western’s impossible dream of having a child with her brother. We have Miss Vivian, the older woman obsessed with the screaming of babies-could she be some kind of future-past Alicia? We have the possibility that the pair did have sex but lied about it or repressed the memory. Maybe there was even an abortion, and the Kid is an image of that and mechanism for “not thinking about that.” We have some characteristically McCarthian passages describing dark creatures emerging from strange primordial demonic soups. Most dramatically to me, we have the moment where the Kid brings a trunk and inside the trunk is a doll and the trunk is labeled Property of Western Union but the Kid reads it as “PROGENY OF WESTERN UNION.” Given that the siblings are named Western, “Progeny of Western Union” was like a slap in the face. On the next page Alicia is crying and saying she’s sorry to the doll. I thought that had to be a baby. The only thing that didn’t fit is that she said “I was only six years old.” What could that mean, I thought. Maybe the answer is in the unread letter in The Passenger. Nope. (Spoiler answer: she was six years old; the doll was just a doll. “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”) I was also carefully noting the allusions to physics and math. The main way I could see modern physics contributing to actualizing their love would be through the phenomenon of ENTANGLEMENT, whereby distant parts of a quantum system can be in instantaneous interaction no matter how far apart. Interestingly, this central concept in quantum physics was not really discussed explicitly but only hinted at for example when Alicia says she’d like to discuss BELL’S THEOREM in Stella Maris. In Stella Maris we also get references to the possibility of loops in time, and the possibility that “simulation” will be the real “afterlife.” Will the final pages reveal that they had sex and a baby? Or that their love created a quantum baby “made purely of light” that needed to be protected in some platonic realm? Or that Bobby’s life was just a simulation his brain created in a coma? Or that they are their own parents and that somehow that’s why Bobby or Alicia or maybe their mom is the missing passenger in the plane? (That last one isn’t even coherent, I don’t think.) No. We get a bit more about sex-talk and dreams between them, but no consummation nor any baby. I don’t think we get any far-out modern physics interpretation such as Philip K Dick might have written. No, the “boring” interpretation of the story works just fine: they had a forbidden love, they were miserable, and they died lonely and apart. They were preoccupied with things that could never solve the real problem: we’re all dead in the end. None of the potential “reveals” I could imagine as a reader would really solve the existential problem the characters face. But if the book did end with a reveal like that, that would give us as readers a sort of satisfaction that the characters can’t access-and neither can we in real life. So if there is an articulable point to the story, it might be a sort of warning to us newfangled atheistic types who get intoxicated by the apparent profundities of math and physics-that although they might appear to give us alternatives to traditional religion for making sense of the world, and making it appear benign or intelligent (as in the line in Stella Maris where she says the issue is whether the universe might be intelligent)-we might trick ourselves into thinking science offers an alternative optimistic worldview-but no. This book is a smack in the face to wake us out of our smug scientist-minded worldview. So ultimately, we pass THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS LIKE ALICE AND LEWIS CARROLL, BUT END UP BACK IN THIS BLEAK WORLD WITH SCHOPENHAUER. In Schopenhauer’s view the universe does have a mind, but it’s not conscious except in us and other animals. The mind of the universe is a blind will to exist that leads to different parts of the universe eating each other not realizing they are eating themselves. So everything lives according to urges we don’t understand, suffers more or less, and disappears with no lasting trace. Aside from the many funny parts in The Passenger (perhaps unexpected in such a dark story), the faint happy notes in the story result from human connections, such as the holding of hands at the end of Stella Maris. One other point I have not seen mentioned by others is THE RED SASH that Alicia’s body is wearing at the start of The Passenger. In Stella Maris she says she wants to be completely erased from existence and not found, but in the Passenger we are told explicitly that she wore a red sash “so that she’d be found.” So maybe she had developed her relationship with Dr. Cohen enough that she wanted to reestablish a connection with the rest of humanity-if only after her death. In summary: the worst spoiler for this story is: there are no spoilers. What appear to be spoilers are decoys. There are no spoilers because there are no satisfying answers that can be revealed, to the problems faced by the characters-or us. Final note regarding an apparent flaw: the author uses “dubious” multiple times when he appears to mean “doubtful.” This is not so minor because the characters are supposed to be hyper-intelligent and hyper-educated, and they make a habit of correcting others’ pronunciation and grammar. So it broke the spell for me (to some extent) when it turned out they don’t know the difference between DUBIOUS and DOUBTFUL.

[@Engel1916]

I finished both books yesterday and I must say, it gave me both a profound sadness as well as a great acceptance of death and its related finalities. Also, great reviews as usual Clifford, and as a longtime sub whom doesn’t really comment often (if at all) these two reviews are some of your best. Keep doing that voodoo you do so well.

[@lock67ca]

I think these are his best works since Blood Meridian. It took some 15 years for Blood Meridian to be regarded as the masterpiece that it is. I'm really hoping the same thing doesn't happen with this.

[@larrycarr4562]

Suttree belongs on the top shelf of American literature, his masterpiece IMO.

[@williamneal9076]

Right. These are the only 3 of his I've read.

[@GonzoGastronomy]

Completely agree

[@jordanwolfcastle7387]

“The passenger” could also be a metaphor for traveling through the unconscious of Bobby in the coma (if it is him dreaming in the coma) and through the consciousness of Alicia through her hallucinations

[@gigabot]

I would kill for another version of Stella Maris that is just Alicia & The Kid

[@LayneRaisor]

You mentioned some of the mysteries that do not get addressed in Stella Maris, including the contents of the letter that so upset Bobby's friend toward the end of The Passenger. It just occurred to me to wonder if perhaps the letter explained that the ultimate reason Alicia was planning, and eventually did, kill herself was that she was sure that he was dead or would die. It would reveal the deep tragedy that it was his choice to go race cars and get himself nearly killed that doomed Alicia. I think it's cool to imagine that McCarthy doesn't tell us what the letter says, but gives us enough clues to sort of figure out what it must be.

[@IndieAuthorX]

I like how Stella Maris and The Passenger essentially leave us wondering what the historical events were. It found that sweet spot where both characters were dead to the other and both characters were united in their loss for the other... because if The Passenger is true, Alicia is dead and if Stella Maris is true then Bobby is dead. However, Stella Maris never states that Alicia took her life and if Bobby did die in that accident, then The Passenger's claim that Alicia took her life was not verified.

[@IndieAuthorX]

I think this is a take on quantum physics. When observed, particles behave differently then when not. The point of the books are not whether the siblings died in the manners described by either book, it is that they are invariably dead to each other in different ways, dead to each other specifically in a manner specific to the two people.

[@barbarajohnson1442]

​@@IndieAuthorX thank you for this, I was stuck on left brain/right brain...also in there, but in terms of playing with time, which the novel does...yes!

[@Crazybushful]

​@@IndieAuthorXamazing interpretation. I just read the novel and am in awe of McCarthy's genius and the fact he leaves so many interpretations as valid. Best books in ages!

[@gm6785]

Great review and nice to include the Betterhelp sponsorship with this book. I think these are books I will reread each year.

[@ArchibaldGurnsbach]

2666 is the saddest book i've ever read, but passages in infinite jest elucidate the architecture of depression and addiction so well as to be almost heartbreaking. love your work, would line up for the poetry slam, and what are your thoughts on graphic literature?

[@davidwhite3598]

I’ve read Stella Maris and thoroughly loved it, but even better I think is listening to the audiobook. As the entire book is essentially conversation ,it’s very well done with two people doing the reading, a male and a female. I’ve listened to that four times and continue to reap new rewards from the book. Track it down. I found mine through my local library.

[@TH3F4LC0Nx]

Oh man I can't wait to read this! McCarthy is such a master of dialogue, I really wanna see what it's like to read a book by him comprised solely of dialogue. Hope it slays! :D

[@isaacrenne6031]

A LONG WAIT FOR THIS. THANKS!

[@AnaWallaceJohnson]

Thank you for convincing me to pick this up. Love your reviews.

[@FisherKing9633]

Public event idea: select and read a few short stories, lead discussions based on them. I frequently go back to your reading of Hemingway’s “Short Happy Life of Francis McCawber” (apologize for the probable misspelling) and I’d love to hear you read more stories. Poe, O’Connor, anyone. Admittedly I don’t know how this would work with copyrights, but I think that’d be amazing. Also, if you haven’t read it, I recommend James Ellroy’s L.A. Quartet. Just finished the second book, The Big Nowhere, and words cannot describe how fucking amazing that story is. Ellroy’s ability to make complete and utter shitbags likable characters is legitimately astounding. Season’s Greetings from KC MO, @BetterThanFood. Been watching your channel since 2018 and I thank you for being the main inspiration for my personal reading list.

[@TheNegativeOptimist1]

A Better Than Food Ellroy review is top of my personal wishlist :)

[@XxsmgderyxX]

I finished the last book of the LA Quartet yesterday and the whole thing is fucking brilliant. I kept thinking that there was no way Ellroy could maintain that level of depth and brutality with each successive novel and yet somehow he did. A great writer and a great series.

[@shanabana22]

Amazing review! Two amazing books. Once I think I'm done processing, I'm going to read them both again because there's more I know there's more. I'm just full now despite knowing I've probably missed something.

[@lynndemarest1902]

Halfway in, this is destined to become my favorite book of all time.

[@bobkhan1809]

Looking forward to reading this, still haven't gotten my copy yet but Alicia's condition was the beating heart of The Passenger for me. For me the saddest thing I've read yet still has to either Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro or the short story version of Flowers For Algernon--the short story hits a lot harder than the novel to me because all we have is the heavily stylized entries of Charlie's writing and they are the only view we have into his soul through the arc of his growth and decay. The novel was powerful too but something about the compression and insulated desolation in the short story just tears out my heart in a whole different way. Light In August by Willie Faulks and Lie Down In Darkness and The Confessions of Nat Turner by Bill Styron are up there for me too.

[@larrycarr4562]

Never Let Me Go is a great, and very sad tale.

[@jackwalter5970]

I like the discussion about language being a virus (like Laurie Anderson and Bill Burroughs have said). And why don't animals ever become mentally ill? Why didn't Alicia ever try to physically touch The Kid or any of the other Horts?

[@MikeWiest]

Thank you for this video! I don't know any one in real life who read these fascinating books so it was great to hear your thoughtful initial reaction.

[@i.hold.vertigo2329]

It's funny you brought up Borges because I'm pretty sure McCarthy commented on his work saying he didn't like it and that it's hard enough to get people on board with what you're trying to say without making it intentionally implausible.

[@mariocoelho9380]

Damn, will come back to this once I've read the book. Thanks, man! Love from Portugal.

[@Rhall20448]

If you think Stella Maris is depressing then read Sophie's Choice. I read it and didn't get out of bed for several days. The author William Styron subsequently checked himself in a mental health facility.

[@vcackermanwrites]

Happy new year!

[@etherealbonds]

Please do a review on Michel Houellebecq - Annihilate. It's literally a novel destroying itself. It's impossible to see coming what happens in the last chapter and when it happens it feels like being glued to the trails while the train is approaching you. It is incredibly unfulfilling, emotionally brutal and disturbing. The dream scenes are really interesting as well. Sex, longing for meaning and then death without any tension resolved. No conclusion at all. I think it's his masterpiece. Please. Do. A. Review. 😭

[@ellelala39]

Great review, Cliff. As far as remembering what you read, I aid my poor recall with extensive note taking.

[@psychicdriver4229]

To me, that missing passenger was just one more example of a universe that can't be explained. One more thing in a life that you will always wonder about. By the end of these books I realized how much it was affecting me unconsciously... you're right, no rivals. Best ending but also the saddest ending to a book I've ever read... damn, and it did bring me to tears.

[@thundercheeks1989]

Hey, Cliff. Folks like you, they like your style, your thoughts, your propensity to enjoy dark things. Take what you are doing here and just put it on stage. Find an author youre interested in and work to convince them to get on stage with you. Dont overthink this. I know it probably feels like a big step, and that it requires heavy reflection, a mind blowing idea. It doesn't. Keep it simple, find a good writer, have confidence and do what you always do. Ill be the first to buy tickets. Glad you enjoyed this. I was fucking rocked by it.

[@tb5032]

the missing passenger might simply be an allegory and Bobby is actually looking for himself, or looking inward in a sense to understand why he is the way he is and ended up the way he ended up. the thought that he could've been dead and didn't realize would make sense (but so would the other theory that Alice left thinking he was about to die but he didn't). there's a short line or two in the passenger where a long-dead corpse comes alive out of his grave but he doesn't even know he's dead. instead he asks where the bathroom is. don't remember the context offhand but the point being that someone being dead would be totally unaware that they died. while the passenger may be a little harder to decipher, Stella Maris is more obvious imo. kind of feels like McCarthy is saying too much knowledge can be overwhelming and this obsession with trying to understand life and the true nature of reality might be a fruitless endeavor that leads to madness and despair. McCarthy, through his work, has shown his deep knowledge of philosophy, among countless other big ideas and concepts, and although there is no direct mention of Albert Camus in these new books I'm confident that McCarthy had this quote from Camus in mind: “There is only one really serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Deciding whether or not life is worth living is to answer the fundamental question in philosophy. All other questions follow from that." to be or not to be, that is the question.

[@miskatonic6576]

One of the most amazing books I've ever read. Liked it more than The Passenger and it was brilliant. I found this one far darker.

[@timkjazz]

Brilliant novel, brilliant review, reminiscent of JR by William Gaddis, another novel made up of dialogue. Universities should add watching Cliff's reviews to their syllabuses for literature, he explains just enough and in such a way, referencing other works of literature with a dash of humor and a dash of seriousness as to make you want to read the book he's reviewing, a very rare gift in book reviewing nowadays. In my opinion 'By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept' by Elizabeth Smart is the saddest book ever written and the absolute greatest work of prose ever written.

[@alphonseelric5722]

JR is more conversational. Entropic, filled with the chatter (even marginal) of life. Stella maris is monologic. It reminded me of Plato's dialogues a bit.

[@poru208]

I believe the Stella Maris coda takes place 10 years before the Passenger so Alicia wouldn't have any idea about it yet and Bobby hasn't awoke from his coma and then get into salvage diving years later.

[@Draxtor]

God DAMNIT my friend: now I gotta prioritize reading this one .... the rest of my multiple to read lists and TBR stacks are looking at me and are weeping !!!!!

[@baxtermaxtor]

13:24 Yes, I remember that from one of Nabokov's lectures..."Flaubert in a letter to his mistress made the following remark: Comme l’on serait savant si l’on connaissait bien seulement cinq a six livres: 'What a scholar one might be if one knew well only some half a dozen books.'”

[@BetterThanFoodBookReviews]

Thank you for posting that. The idea of limiting one's reading to the absolute greatest books one can find and rereading those select few over and over again is worth serious consideration.

[@baxtermaxtor]

@@BetterThanFoodBookReviews That's basically what I'm doing now by picking a small eminent lineup.

[@larrycarr4562]

I like to alternate my reading with pulp and noir mysteries, although I do recognize perhaps a 2nd reading of Madame Bovary, AnnaK, etc. etc. would be, at 74, a wiser allocation of my available reading time. But wisdom has never been my strong suit, it’s all good.

[@Eternalplay]

Agreed. It does demand reread

[@JamesMcCallum-oo1xn]

Great channel. Sanctum of Sanity. Keep it up. Just re read silence of the lambs & Hannibal. Such underestimated writing - depth & layers beyond the characters. Not a complex mind like Cormac but Harris expresses an unrelenting depth of descriptive simplicity

[@Ozgipsy]

The reviews of these two books have been really good Cliff. Right at my “active reader” level. 👍

[@mirceaxvlad]

This was one of the very few plot-less books I loved. I found the conversations between the doctor and Alicia very interesting, engaging and at times really funny. Now that I finished it, I would appreciate a similarly engaging and witty book recommendation. Cheers!

[@daankeijzer8818]

I would highly highly recommend suttree, by mr mccarthy. Its my favorite book and im going to start the passenger next week!

[@vangoghsear8657]

Read Stella Maris immediately afterwards and the book ripped my heart out. I kept thinking about the potential of this relationship and the torture of this world. That book raises so many bloody questions it makes your head spin.

[@alexjohnson9798]

What if you did an event where you read passages from your favorite books dramatically while a band played?

[@Nuance88]

Have you tried reading William T. Vollmann? He's perhaps the only other living author I know of on par with Cormac McCarthy. Since you spoke with the Leaf by Leaf guy, you surely must've been recommended Vollmann before.

[@evelynmayton470]

I believe Bobby died, the story we share is his coma, the energy of his spirit being expelled. The reason The Kid walked with Bobby's fading spirit on the beach, a communicator between the spirits of he and his sister.

[@WildBillandFriends]

So if Bobby died in ‘72 how does the Passenger take place in the 1980s???

[@TheProtagonizer]

I'm so happy to see an author like McCarthy publishing new stuff, but it makes me sad this might be one of his last if not THE last

[@cristinagru196]

Thanks of you I've discovered McCarthy and I love his writing! Those two book are on my top tbr this year. I'm currently reading Lapvona by Ottessa Moshfegh. I've loved My year of rest,Eileen and liked Death in her hands. I would like very much to hear a review from you regarding Lapvona. Many thanks!

[@lionstandingII]

Yep.....18:47....

[@coreyjenrette8060]

Saw someone say that Bobby could be the missing passenger. Interesting.

[@Ryetronics]

16:09 Where is the link he references to the McCarthy interview? I can't seem to find it.

[@BetterThanFoodBookReviews]

Whoops, must've forgot to put that in - Thanks for catching that kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqO4qmSMo5d-mqs

[@kieran_forster_artist]

Great to see you supporting access to therapists, which is one of the biggest unmet needs in modern society.

[@rustyshackelford934]

Coming back after I read this. So fucking hyped. Keep it up Cliff 👍 Back: I felt the same thing. I’d been interested in diving into mathematics and physics, but this book really pushed that feeling. Heartbreaking but beautiful novel. I don’t think I can add anything that you haven’t already said. I too will mourn when McCarthy finally goes. There really is no one on his level. No one in this generation writing anything close or honestly worth a shit. I got into an argument with someone recently who said there was plenty of magnificent work being published today. Which I sternly disagreed. It all seems quite contrived and uninspired. With a stale prose. I have to believe someone will come eventually who is inspired by the masters and bring forth substantial work. There’s too much to write about these days that people just aren’t. They’re all writing about the same things because they will sell and they’re not adding anything new, nothing that has been done or said before, in a better fashion. Sad for the state of literature. Like you said all the masters that are still around, are inching closer towards the grave: McCarthy, Pynchon, Delillo. It’s sad.

[@lock67ca]

I think you may be right about The Passenger. It may be made up of the last thoughts, memories and dreams of a dying mind. She makes the point that Bobby is dead several times. The doctors told her that he's brain dead and urged her to remove him from life support, which she refused to do. There is no coming back from brain death.

[@user-cp9yo4jk9b]

I think it's alternate realities, because of McCarthy's interests and how in each book the other sibling is dead. I think that the beginning of the passenger is alluded to by the last couple pages of Stella Maris especially about her plan 2-a

[@Jabes75]

My theory, having just finished Stella Maris is that Alicia is the passenger. We recall in SM the story of the man in a coma who wakes up when he finds out he is terminally ill with an unrelated disease. Alicia fakes her own suicide, knowing that this will get to Bobby, as people in comas are said to be able some fashion pick up things said to them. This grief awakens Bobby and is what keeps him alive throughout The Passenger. Recall the line in SM, about unfulfilled longing being stronger than fulfilled desire. In the opening of the Passanger, Alicia's dead body is described as having a red sash(?) so she will be found. This runs counter to the anonymity she seemed to crave when talking about suicide in SM. Bobby is visited by someone on the oil rig and also in the old shack whom is never identified. I think this might be Alicia as well. Couple more thoughts....

[@Jabes75]

Also, in SM, Alicia mentions a raft being used in one of her hypothetical suicide scenarios. Similar to the one Bobby finds on the island? In SM, It's clear Alicia has thought through every possible suicide scenario, and I imagine that would include faking her own death. It would also explain why the feds were so interested in Bobby. If his sister was the passanger on the flight. And lastly, the cover (at least on the box set) has a woman whom I take to be Alicia in the water, which would be hiding the mystery in plain sight. Which I think is a term she used in SM, when she was carrying all her money in a bag.

[@MikeWiest]

The book explicitly mentions people coming back from a coma after the doctors thought it was over. I think the book is tempting us to settle for a more "interesting" version over the boring old reality of a life without his true love. I mean, it doesn't HELP anyone if The Passenger takes places in his mind, because there is no happy ending. I agree it's consistent with the text, but the interpretation that he woke up from the coma and lived out his life in deep sadness is also consistent with the text. I mean he's in deep sadness either way. Sorry I probably could have said that in fewer words. Cheers!

[@sheephillkennel2004]

the protagonist of "the outer dark", cormac mccarthy's early appalachian gothic novel, is a woman named rinthy. she said, "I've come a far piece"...

[@URInTheVillage]

If you would like a fantastic introduction to math from a form you are accustomed to, namely a literary form, you should read the short book by David Foster Wallace, "Everything and More." It describes the difficulties of defining and accessing the mathematical (and philosophical) concept of "infinity." It's definitely not a math book, nor is it a DFW novel. DFW is a great writer who also understood math. Give it a shot. Your review would be appreciated as well.

[@sparshhardik]

enjoyed it a lot. thank you 👏🙏👌

[@jimgriffith4504]

Row, row, row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily merrily, merrily, merrily Life is but a dream Row, row, row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily merrily, merrily, merrily Life is but a dream Row, row, row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily merrily, merrily, merrily Life is but a dream Row, row, row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily merrily, merrily, merrily Life is but a dream

[@t0dd000]

Sad is not the emotion I felt. It was ... hmm. I'm not sure what it was. But I loved the novels. I was skeptical at the 100% dialogue choice for Stella Maris, but I was fixated from start to finish. The incestual love story: only McCarthy could make it make sense. She was a solipsist. :) She seemed at peace at the end. So ... Anyway. That's my thoughts. The books were brilliant and man, McCarthy comes off as a genius. A genius writing a genius. I can't imagine the writing process for these.

[@tomjoadism]

Couple conflicting thoughts: My understanding when asked point blank regarding consumating their feelings was a very passionate kiss. She did share a rather prurient dream regarding more, though. Second thought: she mentioned the money found in the pipes hidden in the basement. That happened in The Passenger. I suppose that wasn't a dream-? Please- everyone- anyone- chime I'm with thoughtful responses

[@MikeWiest]

Yeah the money seems to be real. Or as real as anything that we experience...! As far as I can tell, there was no secret or repressed or quantum physical consummation...even though there are hints that there might have been a baby--like the hallucination of a box labeled "PROGENY OF WESTERN UNION" with a doll in it that makes her cry and apologize to the doll (remember Alicia and Bob's last name is Western). I think that was one of many decoys to distract us from the ultimate lesson--that none of this math and physics helps us to escape the tragedy of regular old real life and death in the absence of the one one loves.

[@Eternalplay]

I would love a follow up explainer video

[@kodymasteller4740]

my brother, it would be great if you did a coffee meet up Q&A type of scenario. Also Florida death metal is fucking badass.

[@alissonyamakawa6597]

The saddest book I've ever read is Humus, by Raul Brandão. It's amazing.

[@pipstrem5401]

Can I read stella maris without having read the passenger?

[@igorbanin8913]

Come to Brazil!

[@theschmidy]

Stella Maris is incredible, but I dont think The Passenger is a dream. They did mention aliens in a few conversations, but I dont really think it's that eaither... Archatron was a fascinating entity though! As far as the plane's passenger goes, the only things I thought could be seen as a reference to it in Stella Maris were the last few lines of chapter V... Which lead me to believe that maybe the passenger was the Kid, arriving on the bus, so to speak. When I started reading these books, I had no idea how much they would grab me, but yeah, I think SM might be the best book to have been published since I could read... Fantastic. Beautiful, and so sad. It did bring me to tears.

[@patfixler7949]

Hello Clifford Lee Sargent of Better than food. I am a big fan of your channel and right now I am reading The Passenger and probably going to save this video when I finish stella marris. For now I would like to ask if you have read Agota Kristoff's trilogy, the notebook, the proof and the third lie. It is my favorite book (particularly the proof) beside blood meridian, and Natsuo Kirino's Real world, (Though, I haven't been thinking about that last one as much as those other two]. I think you would like it as in one of her interview she had said that she was influenced by George Battalie and other author you have reviewed here; Knut hamsun, thomas bernhard and Dostoesvky; source: *Can't add because youtube keep deleting my comment every time I posted this comment, this is the third version (Note, the interviewer also said that her work have been compared with Beckett and Kafka but she did not say anything to this and I don't see much similarity myself)I would like to know your opinion and if you like it or not. Anyway, if you've gotten this far, Thank you for reading and please keep up the good work. I always enjoy your work. P.s. I would also like to ask the better than food community for some recommendations. I've been reading a lot of novels recently but haven't found much favorites besides the three above. I very much love stories about people wrestling with the darkness and violence of humanity and seeing if they overcome it or not. (Some of my other literary tastes that are not novels include; Berserk [manga]; Vagabond [manga]; The house in fata morgana [Visual novel]) Anyway, thank you again for the recommendation. I hope this doesn't come off too rambly.

[@james2529]

I can't wait to watch this after I've read these two books.

[@josedanielherrera7115]

I'd highly recommend you listen to Bernardo Kastrup in regards to Schopenhauer. He ties the philosophy to physics very well. Thank you for what you do and your comedic viewpoint.

[@MohamedMohamed-tr2rz]

I loved this book. Knowing about the reality of our universe is lonely and scary. And without religion Satan or “ 20:18 the kid” will lead you astray

[@WildBillandFriends]

So who was on the plane and what was the plane’s back story?

[@LynnDavidNewton]

You asked - My opinion is that "The Passenter" is what really happens and that after the reader of the second book gets over the shock and confusion of hearing Bobby was in a coma and was maybe dead, the only conclusion I could come to was to assume that he recovered and came back. Otherwise nothing fits together. Besides, Alicia is the one who is crazy, not Bobby. And she's ripe for overreacting. I've read only a bit over half of it so far but am loving it, as I did the first book. I like the character of Alicia. She's someone I could have been friends with. Listen (read) her talk forever.

[@larrycarr4562]

Intentionally unanswered. Either way tragic with Bobby either brain dead and his unconscious playing out his working out that Alicia is no more and fading from memory [ fascinating the Kid appearing to Bobby, so perhaps evidence this is all Alicia working out Bobby passing? NotBobby!]. This reader takes Bobby at faith that Bobby somehow recovered, leaving me to wonder would Alicia have taken her life if she believed Bobby would recover. Inescapable though the tragedy of the tale, while Cormac imparts his beliefs on the unconscious, the thinking mind, math, science and philosophy… Is there more, he wishes to impart and write about, or has he finished with us [the reader] -more sad stuff.

[@patrickkidwell1787]

I’m in the St. Pete-Tampa area and I’d be down to buy tickets to an event

[@kylewente9114]

You should do a panel with some other literary figures

[@kylewente9114]

Maybe about how literature can survive in this century… for instance, KZbin as your successful outlet and how that’s different and not traditionally “literary” but is still working out well

[@MisterWondrous]

Nabokov set about learning just a handful of very great English novels, including Ulysses, as he mentions in his notebooks...and I tend to concur, but would like to have some insights into a great many more. A great time to be alive for such endeavors.

[@ElGringoLatscho]

Alicia would laugh at this sponsor

[@Rkitt8]

I’m about to start Stella Maris tonight. I loved the philosophy of The Passenger. I can’t wait to read the saddest book you’ve ever read.

[@bobsbigboy_]

aaaand it was

[@abrlim5597]

Can I read Stella Maris first before reading the Passenger?

[@BetterThanFoodBookReviews]

Sure, I’d say so

[@gravymuztache8108]

Just got my copy in the mail. Can’t wait to have crushing existential dread imposed upon me through McCarthy’s brilliant use of language.

[@jordanloux3883]

Sadder than A Scanner Darkly? The scene where the woman talks about getting clean and getting to eat in a restaurant and being treated like a normal person instead of a filthy junky had me bawling my eyes out...

[@ja6975]

Sounds like a personal reaction

[@StudioSerious1]

I don't know, the way you described it doesn't make it sad at all.

[@brandonkindt1205]

A Scanner Darkly is sadder. But the two authors have some parallels. A reoccurring theme/character in PKD's novels was a young slender schizoid/schizophrenic woman - apparently inspired by his twin sister that died in the womb.

[@jsg8357]

Saludos desde Colombia, excelente review.

[@marklacroix373]

I wonder how many Cannibal Corpse listeners are Cormac McCarthy readers.

[@unchartedrocks1]

Me. 🤟 not my favorite band but still a band on my playlist.

[@cyclonasaurusrex1525]

You ok??

[@weeklyfreeman2299]

I think the missing passenger is ultimately just another answer out of reach, like everything else perhaps. Just another thing that creates more questions. Also more plainly, searching for somebody that can't be retrieved sadly. Alicia also articulated at length why she would not choose drowning. If you subscribe to the passenger being a dream from Bobby's coma, the missing passenger on a deeply submerged plane takes on some further significance. Also if we are in dreamland, she is not necessarily dead or at least did not necessarily die in the manner we think she is/did (but still very likely to have died in 72). No neat conclusion, that would be disingenuous to the subjects explored. Time (well) spent.

[@cathyp6788]

I loved it.

[@TheBramVC]

Thanks for the shoutout to the metal scene, dude. Not all of us are illiterate savages.

[@fireferna]

Wow, this is my mother's name (but I'm pretty sure it's not because of this book) and the Maris is pronounced Mah-ris. It's latin for sea, so the full name is translated like, star of the sea 🥰

[@MikeWiest]

Or maybe "sea of stars," like the sky is an ocean filled with stars...

[@hypatia-du-bois-marie]

As an atheist and antinatalist algebraic geometer whose studies are just to chase the theory of motives, colloquially the "Grothendieck's dream", this is not at all why we sometimes say mathematics is psychedelic. The study of formal sciences gives people a way out: it offers a solution to whatever societal problem one's facing, and empowers and encourages people to chase it no matter how impractical it can be; for the most prominent example: cryptography/information security, which give everyone a fighting chance against atrocities, especially in my home country, China, where persecution is common and justice is rare. And also, just as one should not stigmatize schizophrenia, one should not romanticize it either.

[@bensaylor9093]

Hold my hand.

[@tylerdurden1221]

It was kind of quick, but did Alicia bring up Bobby being dead?

[@StephenLarrick]

I asked ChatGPT about your public event idea and here are two suggestions that I thought might work well: 1. Book and Metal Mashup: The book reviewer and heavy metal band could collaborate on a unique event where they present a book review and performance in a mashup format. The book reviewer could introduce the book and give a brief overview, then the heavy metal band could perform a song that relates to the theme or ideas in the book. This could be repeated with different books and songs throughout the event. 2. Book and Metal Trivia Night: The book reviewer and heavy metal band could host a trivia night event where they test attendees' knowledge of both books and heavy metal. The event could include rounds on various literary and musical topics, as well as a round where attendees have to guess the book or heavy metal song based on a brief description or snippet. My own personal idea is that you have band members select a book that has had an impact on their life and you discuss with them in an interview/podcast format how that book has influenced them and why they feel others should read the book. You could call it, Better Than Metal a Better Than Food experience.

[@PatchyTheFox]

Are you open to acting?

[@etamble]

I’m with you: if you identify with her and buy into what she’s saying as she goes, the end is the saddest thing I’ve ever heard by any author, anywhere, ever.

[@JamesMcCallum-oo1xn]

It’s so strange watching Oprah trying to understand Cormac. He revealed her Simeon mind … way out of her depth. I’m surprised he agreed to talk to her. She was on thin ice from minute 1.

[@antherthalmhersser7239]

Better than food def slam poetry jam

[@shirleymuhleisen683]

Read book while also listening to audible. It made some of book almost unbearable: such as her needing to explain with scientific detail why she wouldn’t die by drowning: hearing fine details described so matter of fact, was disturbing.

[@igorrenfield6588]

Clifford, if you’re interested in Schopenhauer, get your hands on a copy of The Pessimists Handbook published by the University of Kansas in the 1970s. You’ll thank me later!

[@barrymoore4470]

I have a friend whose degree is in Sanskrit, who once rather dismissed Schopenhauer as warmed-up Buddhist leftovers. My friend has a fairly good knowledge of Buddhism, and respects the tradition intellectually while disfavoring it as a path he himself would wish to adopt. So he wasn't denigrating Schopenhauer as worthless, rather he was indicating that what is compelling in Schopenhauer's thought had already been articulated by Buddhist philosophers predating the German by a millennium and more.