Beyond Styles: The Art of Blending Chinese Internal Martial Arts

[@highdefinitionarchitecture8208]

Finally here! Thank you!

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

More to come! Thank you for the support! 😃🙏

[@U.W.Y.H.L.]

This is amazing! It’s like you read my mind and made a video of exactly what I’ve been focused on foremost in my martial training and studies! I recently got back into Bagua at “The Way Of The Dragon” school in east providence RI, but the class starts with Sun Tai Chi, Bagua then ends with Xing Yi and since being exposed to Tai Chi and Xing Yi I’ve taken a great liking to both but have really involved in trying to learn and INTEGRATE Xing Yi into my main practices of Bagua and Wing Chun from my brothers school ep martial arts right across the street! It’s truly amazing how it’s like you heard my pleas of current contemplation and have actually validated them in this video! Thanks for your awesome teaching, and I look forward to possibly training with you in reality God Willing. 😱🫢🤩/👌✌️🤲☝️😉

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Haha perhaps those thoughts reached out and inspired me across the ethers! Sun Tai Chi's founder is a famous master of both Xingyi and Bagua, and actually learned Taiji last. He is the role model of integrating these practices. 😃 As you study all of that and Wingchun I'm sure something new and interesting will arise and I'm glad this video helps inspire you and guide you on your own unique journey! If you're ever in California you're welcome to visit! And if you find another dozen or two persons that want to learn in RI I'm happy to visit RI. 😃🙌

[@40JoCharles]

Super interesting. Love the switch from one style to the other. Tai Chi for the win. 🙂🙏🏼☯️

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Yes it's very interesting! Like some days I like dark roast and other days light roast coffee. Some days the strong espresso and some days a smooth pour over. 😃🙏

[@archangel98632]

Okay, here we go: I learned a family style of arnis/escrima/kali when I was in the Philippines, so consider it my "base" art through which my body experiences all other martial arts. Later found out that, hey! a lot of wing chun movements are actually amplifications of the trap/lock drills of stick and knife fighting. Then, when I was exposed to internal styles, it was like WAIT a sec... my stick fighting is like Xingyi energy with Bagua footwork... and AMERICAN CATCH WRESTLING GRAPPLING?!?! Martial arts are wonderful! We all have the arms and legs, and move in different ways, and yet we all end up flowing into one another. All back to the Grand Ultimate unity. Peace to all, and happy training!

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

That's a great story! My first time experiencing Kali I was super impressed, and my friend who showed it to me was also exploring his two loves of Kali and Xingyi! He taught me a lot about certain forms of Fajin and internal power, and introduced me to my BJJ teacher! To this day I still very much enjoy Kali and BJJ, and Xingyi obviously. You reminded me of another wonderful thing about playing with different arts like this, which is how it helps us connect with other people, opening doors that build meaningful memories and relationships! Nice to meet you and welcome! 😃🫸🤛

[@ghostdude45]

YO! I have picked up my kali sticks while circle walking (just messin' about) cuz I remembered this drill/form I was taught by a Jeet Kun Do guy. I may not have had the same exact experience, BUT I THOUGHT THE SAME THING! I was like, "Wait... This feels like if I had the directness of Xingyi and better understanding of grappling, mixing in this footwork would be an interesting exercise if not an amazing practice!" I been practicing here and there ever since. I am so GLAD someone else has shared this niche experience lmfao

[@billscott71]

Hi Master, again a great video I practice Xingyi-Bagua = a synthesis ( 8 Xiantian forms + Houtian 64 forms) + Taiji ....I learned in China ...I got all the forms ;) but due to the language barrier ...it was quite difficult to have access to the accurate information even if I practice Mandarin ;) As an English teacher here in France your courses are very accurate and educational...I hope to meet you in the States some day, because I have become your student .... In my practice...I have understood that a form is a form ...it's not as essential as the principles and the basics exercises = Jiben gong ... I love my forms and my past in China I spent July and August during five years to learn but not enough to be efficient martially ...Neijia quan is more difficult to learn than Waijia Quan I used to be a Viet Vo Dao fractionner and it was easier than Chinese internal arts because to find a good teacher it's like trying to find pebble into a river ;) Take care ...

[@qindao4963]

My daoist teacher in australia always taught hsing yi, bagua taiji both separately and combined together. However the engine as you say was the same for all three arts it came from his linage of daoyin exercises.

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

That's very cool. You have a teacher that is a Daoyin master that has a great universal engine to put into all three! In a similar way, I didn't fully understand the internal mechanics I had been taught, until I dived deep into the spiritual and healing arts. Thanks for bringing up how mixing arts doesn't always mean mixing martial styles! 😃🙏

[@DrEricRobins]

thanks Shifu, great information; and Moe is the perfect demonstration partner too !

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Totally! I love the questions that Moe asks because I think many other people think about them too. Sometimes I think he feels pressured to be the audiences' representative voice haha. But he does a great job doesn't he? 😃

[@LiShuBen]

I learned the 5 elements from my teacher a while back but he never told me what school of xingyi it was from because “it’s not important, just train them” as xingyi isn’t our main system but now I think I know where they come from because we do the 5 elements very similar to you. Awesome video as always!

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

That sounds exactly like my Xingyi teacher. He didn't really talk about the heritage until he retired! Maybe we have the same teacher! Or maybe many masters from the Guoshuguan have that mentality. Thanks for sharing your experience and comment! 😆

[@LiShuBen]

@@phoenixmountaintaichi I asked some of my seniors and they said you guys probably know the same people but aren’t directly related but my teacher has trained with so many people in his youth you may have run into him lol. He’s still relatively young but is still working to put his kids through school so he’s not as social as he wishes he could be. I’d like to respect his wishes of keeping his name off the internet but when I come to visit your school I’d be happy to speak of lineages, history and training principles of my school if you find that interesting.

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

​@@LiShuBenI totally understand that and especially the desire to keep names off the Internet! Looking forward to your visit and talking about whatever you like to talk about. 😄

[@kens5191]

Hi Shifu Lin, I am glad that you shared your insight in this. I have trained Guang Ping Yang Tai Chi for about 30 years, there is Xing Yi and Bagua in the form. The lineage goes back to Yang Banho , Yang Lu Chan's son. I also trained in Hiebe Xingyi , and some Bagua. The transition in the form feels very natural. Thanks Kenny

[@lsporter88]

That was a very clear demonstration and explanation of the differences between various Engines. I now firmly believe that Tai Chi's Engine can and should be plugged into many different styles. I don't mean to presume, but I would love to see a video that shows Tai Chi's Engine plugged into Silat's Multi-Strike, Multi-Situational System (throws, take downs, Ground Fighting). Silat says that it's an Internal Art as well, but it looks like a "Harder" style to me. Anyway, it's a very comprehensive and Venerable Art from Indonesia, quite Brilliant from what I've seen, and I think inserting the Tai Chi Engine deeply into it would make a Fighter quite Formidable. Especially if you add in Weapons, of which both Arts make good use of, but more specifically Sword. Another great video.😎👍🏾

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

You’re right that there are definitely methods of silat out there that are extremely sophisticated, very comprehensive, that look quite compatible with these kinds of principles! I will take a look at the particular one you mentioned. And you’re right that Tai Chi’s principles are applicable in diverse scenarios like that! We will also explore series sword too! I really enjoy sword practice and that will be a huge topic and course in good time. Thank you for the comment and your great ideas! 😃🙏

[@The_Taiji_Viking]

This is a nice presentation and discussion of how we all end up embodying what we are taught. None of us move exactly like our Sifus, but that was true of them too... These arts and systems are much much bigger than any one person can *embody*. As instructors we can learn and teach all of the concepts and methods for the whole art, but what each individual synthesizes into their bodies in the present momeny, will always be uniquely their own. ☯️ 🙏 ☯️

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

That is very beautifully said! And what the present moment asks of us may be something that no one else has experienced before! So what will we answer with, that is different from anything anyone has shown before, that arises naturally from all of our experience? That is a fun thing to discover and let's all enjoy the journey to this discovery. 😃🙏

[@nvisblfist1]

Sun Lu Tang originator of Sun Style always intrigued me with his combining Bagua, Xingyi, and Tai Chi. I have not experienced Sun Style, but I have attempted to blend what I know into my own method. Bruce Lee’s JKD is about making your own style. I am always experimenting, but have to admit that Tai Chi is the main influence. I substitute Wing Chun for the Xingyi concept of forward pressure

[@_....J........................]

Thank you for sharing this Study Teacher Chester and Student Moe.

[@mancamerashakuhachiscooter8941]

My daily practice consists of Tai Chi (Chen /Yang), Hsing Yi ( combined elements), Praying Mantis, BaQua Circle walk. For me it is a good balance. The BaQua is also used as a form of Theravada Buddhism meditation walk.

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

That sounds like a wonderful mix. I grew up studying praying mantis too. It’s a very fun and pragmatic system! That makes sense that you use Bagua as a meditation walk. Some say meditation walk is its origin too! Thank you for sharing. 😃🙏

[@andrewearlwu554]

Discuss about Liuhebafa too in the future if you know about it. 😁

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Ohhh good idea. That is another great example of someone who really worked at integrating these arts!

[@AikiBagua]

Bagua please with your fascia training influence!!

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Oh that would be super interesting. The founder of Cheng Style Bagua was the ultimate fascia master and I'll explain why in the video. Thanks for the idea! 😄🙏

[@GreyTactic]

I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on mixing Taichi and Wing Chun? In a way where every trapping hand contains the 'taichi engine' to not only block an attack but also potentially taking a person's balance? Or is that basically what Xingyi is like?

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Great question and the that Moe asks too! Tai Chi, Wing Chun, Xing Yi, all aim to influence the opponent's balance and all have their own ways of doing so very effectively. It seems to me there is a similarity in how Tai Chi uses the Zhou elbow energy to deflect and project someone with how I have seen Wingchun masters use Tansau, Bongsau, and more. Also Wing Chun's forward pressure and powerful frame is reminiscent of the powerful and imbalancing Yang energy I showed in the Xingyi demonstrations. These are interesting topics to explore and helps us to appreciate our arts more. If you're interested in a video about it, let me know and let me know your particular questions! 😃🙏

[@chessshyrecat]

@@phoenixmountaintaichi To go deeper into this topic one would need to explore the more internal methods of Wing Chun which is rare to find nowadays. A good place to start for this, is to check out Nima King mindful Wing Chun and his Sifu Chu Shong-tin. I think that the engine has a similar root, but it is very different in the nuances and how it is used and expressed.

[@GreyTactic]

@@phoenixmountaintaichi I would definitely be interested in hearing any insights you might have on the topic! Video form with demonstrations would be much apprectiated, of course. From my (inexperienced) point of view, Tai Chi and Wing Chun seem to be compatible with one another. I always found Wing Chun's principle of trapping to be reliant on speedy blocks, attacks and follow-ups. If your block-counter gets blocked, just move on to the next trapping motion, then the next, and so on, until you land a (hopefully decisive) hit. I always felt that a Tai Chi touch to it would make every trapping motion much more potent in controlling the opponent and preventing any further attempts to stop your follow-up move. For example I imagine a Tansau containing Peng Jin/floating Yang would allow for a swift/simultaneous counter straight punch, for example. I'm nowhere near skilled enough to try for myself. Also, based on this video, is it right to say that a Taichi powered punch isn't that interested in causing damage or harm to the opponent, and would prefer to push them away or take their balance? Is that inherent in how Tai Chi works, or more of a choice that Tai Chi practitioners strive for? Would that make it difficult to mix it with more striking-oriented styles? I'm also interested in your thoughts on mixing Tai Chi and Aikido? I feel like Aikido as it is now desperately needs the kind of energy that Tai Chi provides. Being able to take an opponent's balance, for example, makes it much easier to achieve a joint lock to peacefully end the fight. The same goes for overcoming/diverting a person's resistance, force, and intention to get to a joint lock. As it stands Aikido pressure tests involve a lot of grabbing a person's wrists and trying to twist it against the other person's tense resistance; nowhere near the ideals of peace or flowing with the force that Aikido values. Thank you for your reply! I find all this very fascinating.

[@The_Taiji_Viking]

I personally view Wing Chun as a crash course in about 2/3 of the system of TaijiQuan. Basically, put simply, Wing Chun learns to control the centerline, Taiji learns to control the whole Central Axis. Wing Chun does a superficial version of the same stuff that Taiji does. It just takes wayyyy longer to learn all the subtle feel required for Taiji to work. So Wing Chun gives you a shallow version, much faster. Both are ways to study the same set of Principles, ultimately. At least, that's my unsolicited opinion on it.

[@chessshyrecat]

You should check out Nima King and Chu Shong Tin. It is pure Wing Chun, but with the internals of that system added in, that was missed by others comming out of the Ip Man lineage. I think the engine of Wing Chun is different, but it definetly shares the same roots to build their engine like all internal arts do. If you compare Zhang Zuang methods from different sytems/styles and also from Qi Gong they all have the same core, common concept about how to allign your body, they just add in different stuff or express it differently around the core. The missing internals imho is the main reason why so many Wing Chun people fight in making it work, but can't or completley muscle out of the problem and trying to compensate for the lack of the engine.

[@vicwarrior106]

This is a great video! I practice Chang Chuan and much of it, strangely, seems compatible with internal principles. I suspect that the big motions and extended postures may be instrumental to understanding how fascia works and it is used in this context. Could this mean that the utilization of Qi and Jin could also be part of this style or become part of it? What are your thoughts on the matter? Usually Chang Chuan is considered an external style but I see certain compatibilities with Taiji, but not being a practitioner of Taiji I can't really be sure.

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

That’s an awesome comment! I studied Chang Quan when I was young and when I understood fascia I became much more capable of applying the Chang Chuan applications in sparring, especially as throws. I think I’ll do a video about that! You’re right that the big motions and big postures are very helpful for internal development, especially for building the capacity to use the bodily Qi to generate and support powerful strikes similar to what you saw in this Tai Chi and Xingyi video. That’s probably what made you think along this line. 😃 Jin, as a use of tendons to generate a particular kind of elastic force, is not trained in the Chang chuan I studied. In my training we went from Li, muscle force and structure and alignment, and skipped Jin to build Qi. Hence you see the very relaxed and open postures seen in Cha Chuan, Tan Tui, and other long fists. If one makes this leap successfully you end up with very fast and powerful strikes that also prepare you to do internal arts very well. I’ll definitely do a video on this. Thank you for the wonderful idea! 😃🙏

[@vicwarrior106]

@@phoenixmountaintaichi thank you for your articulated answer! I look forward to see your take on the matter in a video!

[@justcruisina1ong]

"Martial arts nerds". I feel so called out 😂😂😂

[@joezane]

It’s an interesting idea. I have a few questions about some things said though. Can you cite your story about Guo Yunshen? I have never heard that, that is not the story that is told about him. I’m also curious what leads you say that xingyiquan is all Yang? Regardless of that, it is an interesting idea that raises some existential questions about what an art is … is it the movements or the “engine”? Can they be separated? And of course… does it matter? When in a conflict, one doesn’t say “I’m doing taiji now”, “okay I’ll do xingyi here” that isn’t how it works… so of course that lends some credence to what you say. But it also makes me wonder if the whole idea of putting one thing into another thing is bit over thought or over determined as opposed to just say we are the sum of our parts and if you train more than one system, you will, of course move in a way that reflects that. So perhaps any talk beyond is just talk?

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Good questions! I was told the story by one of my Xingyi teachers. But after you asked me I did some googling for a source for you and it looks like the person that did that was Li Zhenshan, disciple of Guo Yunshen who walked miles to master Guo's house practicing Bengquan all the way and developed a fantastic level of skill with it! About Xingyi being Yang based, let me be clear that what I said is that the Guoshuguan's Xingyi that I demonstrated was very Yang based. Not all Xingyi. Different styles are quite different. Che style has a lot more spiraling. Song style has more pronounced spinal gather and release. They have their different specializations applied to their engine. And it would be correct to realize that Yang cannot exist without Yin, so there is always both. But strategically, or directionally, the Guoshuguan's Xingyi expresses more Yang. You are totally right that we are the sum of our parts. And you can choose not to think about the parts and there is wisdom to doing that. And as you enjoy the simplicity of being the sum of your parts, you can also begin to notice what makes these sums come together effectively, what goes into it? I don't advocate thinking, while fighting, "I'm doing Xingyi here, I'm doing Taiji there, I'm doing boxing here." I advocate for finding an engine, a way of moving, a singular mindset, that allows you to access your full toolset without having to take time and concentration to switch gears. When intention and awareness is singular, we establish a more harmonious state that is more responsive to what is needed of us, do we not? What you said about moving in a way that matches what you have trained is a good idea, and I presented that in the beginning about just training, sparring and allowing your own blend to naturally arise. And you can train that way and when you notice something does not arise, some examination into whether one engine can work with the other styles movements can yield insight about why it may not be combining, why your improvement may be less than what you had expected or hoped for. And sometimes, a deeper understanding helps us to grow in a way that creates more improvement than what we had experienced. When have you experienced insight, and gained understanding, that helped you to improve, in ways that you had not before the understanding? And how can that kind of insight be helpful for a martial artist, in any way? Thanks for your thoughts on the matter because you clearly thought about it a fair bit and I appreciate that. Hope my response helps clarify it a bit! Feel free to ask any further questions. 😃🙏

[@joezane]

@@phoenixmountaintaichi thanks for your reply. And clarifying what your thoughts. I was very intrigued by your video and I guess I have thought it about it a fair bit. These discussions come up when you cross train a lot. There are people that think you should be pure to just a single method in order to fully embody it and others that think that you should expose yourself to as many ideas as possible. I suppose I see can see the value in each approach, but also the dangers of them. Following a single method can bring you deep understanding of it but can be limiting (and shocking when you confront someone who does a different method). Exposing yourself to as many ideas as possible can be great but can also lead to confusion because the mind is capable of taking in a lot, but the body needs to adapt slowly. I think about this in my own training too because I train n Chen taiji but also cross train in Che xingyi. On Mondays I think they are both the same. In Tuesday I’ll find them completely different. lol. Maybe you know what I mean… Anyway. I was interesting video that did get me thinking a bit… 👍

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

​@@joezaneThank you! That's super interesting that you mention Chen Tai Chi and Che Xingyi. They probably have very compatible spiraling and Dantien use. On the other hand their application is totally different. Because Che Xingyi mostly directs their force forward of your torso, and Chen Tai Chi mostly directs force sideways or diagonally away from your torso. So I can see why Monday can feel very different from Tuesday, depending on whether you're looking at what's under the hood or what's outside the hood. Thank you for your reply and thoughtfulness again! And enjoy your special blend of Che And Chen. 😃👍

[@mba321]

How would Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu *Bridge* with these styles, if at all?

[@kens5191]

Hi Shifu Lin, Actually I believe the form goes back to his father, correct me if i am wrong. Originating in village of Guang Ping.

[@matt_iles]

I combine taiji with goju ryu karate, very compatible!

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

I can see that! A new level of balancing hard and soft. Thank you for sharing! How has it affected your practice?

[@matt_iles]

@@phoenixmountaintaichi It makes it more interesting and more effective. For instance, Goju has push hands, when you use taiji principles partners are very confused as they have no understanding of what you are doing to them (or to themselves).

[@akeweinitz6678]

Tränade ju jutsu fick problem med nacken. Började träna yang formen. Märkte att dom flöt ihop bra.

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

Oh yes! Sometimes in grappling you can overload your neck muscles and compress your neck. It gets better as you strengthen your neck muscles. It also improves as you learn to relax your neck and maintain good body alignment, as you have learned. Thank you for sharing your experience in how mixing has helped you! 😃🙏

[@akeweinitz6678]

@@phoenixmountaintaichifick problem med nacken av ju jutsu när vi gjorde kast. Men bra i nacken nu när jag tränar tai chi yang och tung familjens former. Blev riktigt bra i nacken när jag också började träna zhinengqigong 😊 Tack för dina bra videor. 😊 ✌️ 💛

[@phoenixmountaintaichi]

​@@akeweinitz6678very happy for you! Thank you for your kind words. 😄🙏