This One Thing Destroyed My Back…

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If I told you the most comfortable office chair I have ever used almost destroyed my back, you might not believe me...
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Products in Desk Setup:
NewHeights S Series - bit.ly/3X3GEL2 (BTOD)
Wood Wall Paneling - bit.ly/3AnoVW4 (WoodVeneerHub)
Humanscale Monitor Arm - bit.ly/3rDp3xk (BTOD)
LaMetric Clock - amzn.to/3L3nJfm (Amazon)
BenQ ScreenBar - amzn.to/3V2w7As (Amazon)
Logitech MX Vertical Mouse - amzn.to/40BQxkK (Amazon)
EPOMAKER Keycaps - amzn.to/3N9cnsY (Amazon)
EPOMAKE AKKO Retro - amzn.to/3L3nTDu (Amazon)
Keychron K4 96% - amzn.to/41RSOJK (Amazon)
Govee Floor Lamp - amzn.to/40wSY8f (Amazon)
Samsung 49" Ultrawide - amzn.to/3ozQmco (Amazon)
Shure M7 Mic - amzn.to/3owvpyZ (Amazon)
Rode Mic Arm - amzn.to/41uxIRZ (Amazon)
KELOTEVEN Plant - amzn.to/3UZb0yF (Amazon)
Round End Table - amzn.to/3H5lVkA (Amazon)
SAFAVIEH Rug - amzn.to/3AnmCSB (Amazon)
IDEA4WALL Frames - amzn.to/3N9cFA4 (Amazon)
SIGNWIN Framed Canvas Art - amzn.to/3LnDPS9 (Amazon)
Kingfun Loveseat - amzn.to/3L2r51Y (Amazon)
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[@eZstah]

1200$ chairs are still out of reach for most people. And for 150-300$ you have to choose from thousands of no name brands.

[@freedonx]

@Le Justicier du Net even 15 year ones

[@kennuimuffins2426]

As mentioned, second hand. Or just save up. It's an investment into an item you use frequently, just like having a good bed/mattress, good shoes, good phone etc. If you are using it a lot, then it deserves more attention (and money). No one bats an eye at a 1-1.5k flagship phone. I get everyone has different priorities but if you are using a chair for a long amount of time or working from home, then it should have more thought put into it.

[@fiveromannumerals]

​@@kennuimuffins2426 no one? My phone is 300 dollars, 1k for a phone is dumb. Some people can't afford an aeron or wtv. Simple.

[@JustBurn25]

@Le Justicier du Net yeah, exactly you can buy from "them" the people doing the reviews.... idk about that.

[@theredspoon1763]

Office chairs are getring pretty cheap second hand. Even the high end ones. This is due to the tax benefits companies buying new office equipment receive. They buy those chairs in bulk and in case of Germany after all the Tax benefits, they only pay roughly 60% of the final price of their chairs. That's why here you can buy those super high end chairs second hand in great condition for about 400 to 600 Euros.

[@unknownuser069]

My experience suggests a more nuanced view is needed. You have to move your body. I have a CXO Nightingale 6200 and a Steelcase Leap. (I have to have more than one office ... for reasons) Both phenomenal chairs. Both caused pain and discomfort despite being excellent products. The Leap hurt me because it has thin padding. So, basically the designers have decided to keep you moving by making you uncomfortable. The CXO hurt me because I can easily stay in it 8-12 hours if I do not make a conscious effort to move. This is the lack of circulation mentioned in the video. Adding a short exercise "mobility routine" eliminated all issues with the Nightingale. At least every hour I get up and do 3-5 bodyweight squats, 30 seconds of standing knee lifts, and walk around for a couple of minutes. 2-3 minutes of movement- not exactly training for the Olympics. The Leap remains less comfortable. The CXO together with my mobility routine is the best option, for me, **by far.** It is my intention to replace the Leap with a second CXO.

[@bojack3827]

100% this!!

[@photogasm5]

I have the Leap and I absolutely hate it. I'm really interested in the Nightingale. Where did you get yours? Know of any deals, or places that have a long return window?

[@CloudMountainJuror]

The increase in quality in this channel’s content over the years is visibly staggering. Personalizing the content a bit and bringing the presentation to a more down-to-earth level, making it less clinical, has done wonders. This video is a great example of that. I’m not even really in the market for a chair anymore (I got an Aeron for work use and an Embody for personal use), but I still watch almost every vid you post because there’s just something fun about the vibe. Keep up the good work, I promise people are appreciating it!

[@btodtv]

Thank you! -Greg

[@TheRavinoth]

Thanks a bunch for posting this. I'm in the market for a home office chair and I did find a couple of seats with 4 to 5 inch seating pads. I was really leaning towards those as my cheap 15 year old chair wore out and I was practically sitting on the wood base of the cushion. But the funny thing about my cheap no name chair - I don't have any pain sitting in it. It's just feels somewhat uncomfortable to do a full 8 hour day in. Your perspective is really helpful and totally re-oriented how I was looking at these chairs.

[@CaptainMumpitz]

I do have a question, which is very similar to the topic discussed in this vid: I acquired my first ergonomic office chair last week. It's a Mayer 2486 - a German brand and therefore most likely unknown within the US. But of course it comes with all the features like a not so thick padding, adjustable seat, backrest, lumbar support, etc. Now I've been sitting in this thing for 3 days only and I can tell that my lower back hurts a little right now. Hence I don't know if my adjustments are incorrect or if my body has to get used to this chair, just as mentioned in the video. How do I find out if it's the one or the other? The sales person in the shop where I bought it had looked at my posture and said that the chair definitely suits my body etc.

[@madffx1986]

I would never have imagined that, thank you for sharing your experience with us.

[@takuame7]

I figured this out myself not to long ago. Had a major back injury due to a work accident so finding a chair that doesn't hurt has been damn near impossible. Naturally i thought "thicker cushions = less pain and better comfort" , but no matter what i used I'd always be in pain. Till last week when i tried out a full mesh ergonomic chair for the first time, apparently all I really needed was a chair with strong/firm support! Bought a used steelcase series 1 yesterday for $175 and loving it so far. Note: If you have back issues/injury avoid gaming chairs, I own one for close to 4 years now and it was a mistake to say the least.

[@StephanieJadotte]

This was a great video. I love your desk by the way. What brand is that?

[@bojack3827]

Great video and important issues raised. However i think the real moral of this story is that different chairs suit different people. I've had the Aerons, Embody, Steelcase etc and I think this chair is much more comfortable than all of them. I think

[@ericsong5277]

im glad i found this video.. I was just about to buy a chair with a COMFY cushion.. My problem is I have symptoms of sciatica. Any ideas on what chair to buy? I'm 6'4 and i need a bigger seat depth and really good lumbar support. Another issue I run into that the padding gets compressed overtime and i can feel the framing under the cushion.. I only weigh 185lbs

[@Guyver02USA]

- This sparked a thought and realization this logic can be applied to mattresses as well . I first had spring mattress that was soft thinking it was comfortable and hence be great to sleep in . As time past by I had backaches that were increasingly frequent . Subsequently I had gotten harder spring mattresses and my backaches seem to reduced as well .

[@btodtv]

Exactly! Great comment -Greg

[@kennuimuffins2426]

Yeah my parents randomly bought some super expensive mattress for me a long time ago, unprovoked. It was stiffer but I got used to it very quickly. To others, it feels too stiff but it's actually very comfortable and has it's own level of softness.. hard to explain.

[@jakebrowning2373]

probably depends if you sleep on your side or back @@salut9658

[@anoopdhaliwal]

I'm in the UK - 6 ft 5 and 250 pounds and was shopping for generic ergonomic chairs to accomodate my height and weight for months. In the end, I decided to get a custom office chair made for me - Adapt 700 by Ergochair - my seat cushion is '5 inch thick' 0.7 inch 'soft' visco elastic foam on a base 4 inch very very firm high density foam in a vinyl fabric vs. polyurethane or polyester fabric - this is important because ive found vinyl does not transfer my body weight/heat as quickly as these other fabrics and I've found it to be ultra supportive. To negate the tail bone pain I had from my firm and thin padded office chair which had a $30 coccyx cut out cushion and future back issues I had a coccyx cut out in the seat, I never use the lumbar support air chamber it shipped with and have found relief in the inflatable airpockets for sacral support and thoracic support with a neck curve/head rest. If I had the chance to make the chair again, I would replace the foam cushion in the seat and back with natural dunlop latex - again firm base with maybe a 0.7 inch tatalay latex comfort layer would be more supportive than foam but sadly the the supply of these materials are not available in the office chair industry.

[@Tresla]

What's annoying is, a lot of these companies only offer 2 week trial periods to qualify for returns. 2 weeks is not enough time to determine if a chair is good for you or not. If you're 3 months in and still hate the thing, your only option is to sell it at a considerable loss.

[@shooKnFr0st3]

I’ve got a chair refurbishing guy close to me that has Herman Millers, steel case, and other big names brands. When I started doing 12 hour night IT shifts from home I went to him and got a refurbished SteelCase Amia in black and it has been a phenomenal chair for the past 9 months. I kinda want to go back and get an Areon just to have in rotation for the warmer months. But my next thing is to buy a standing desk with a mouse and keyboard tray.

[@GoldenEagle0007]

its so true that thick chair ruin blood circulation, I learned it the hard way too

[@leapingtortoise]

Just bought an ergonomic mesh chair. I really liked most things about it but it has a really prominent lumbar and my back hurts after sitting in it. I was going to return it and get a second hand Leap but could the back pain just be adjustment from previous terrible chairs?

[@aleck156]

Similar experience here. Mirra 2 was the solution to my lower back and hamstrings problems I had to deal with until that moment.

[@FcBruges4Life]

I am a very large guy 1m98 and with a pretty bad back aswell. I am looking for a chair mainly for long gaming sessions behind pc. But it also has to lean backwards comfortably enough for when I want to play on console. And preferably no mesh (cold ) and no hard arm rests. Any good suggestions? In a 700-800 dollar max price range?

[@itsathejoey]

I balked at the idea of a firm seat pad when I got a Secret Lab chair, but after owning it for about 6 months the cushion started to break in and it isn't that bad.

[@GeorgeFlorian12]

I really need some advice, please. A couple of months ago I started having bad upper back and neck problems. I immediately called my kinetotherapy specialist (I don't know what's this specialty properly called) friend to get my back massaged and for the past two months I've been getting massages for my back and neck. While this helped with my general pain I still got pain while sitting in my IKEA Markus office chair. Last month I got a HM Sayl and for the past 4 weeks I've been trying to get used to it, but everything hurts in that chair, especially my butt and lower back. I've watched and read tons of adjustments guides and I've even asked the friend who massaged me to help adjust and sit in the chair, but to no avail. It still hurts. That's when I decided to return it and buy the cheapest chair I could find: the IKEA RENBERGET, which is awful, but I got myself some butt and lumbar pillows. I thought that if it hurts, it's better to hurt in a cheap chair (70 euros) than in a 10 times more expensive chair (700 euros Sayl). Now, for the past week I've been using the IKEA RENBERGET and everything hurts again. I've began to hate sitting at my desk, which is a disturbing thought, because that's where I work and that's where I game and relax. This fucking chair fiasco is affecting my mental and emotional state. I don't want to work or play at the desk because I know that's going to hurt me. I can't afford something more expensive than the Sayl, which is already very expensive for me.

[@skyhawk77]

It's not the chair, it's you. Sit on the chair the way your body is supposed to, with your feet flat on the floor, and take regular breaks. Ride a bicycle to keep fit.

[@btodtv]

Still possible for a chair to be poor for ergonomics when “used properly”. By your logic, someone sitting in a kitchen chair should never be uncomfortable if they use the chair properly. The Markus you are telling him to just use properly is not ergonomic by design so it is not an easy task to be ergonomic in that chair. -Ryan

[@necrojoe]

The best long-term seat I've ever sat in had a standard high-quality molded foam seat, with 1/2" layer of memory form for initial cush a that "Ahhh..." comfort when you first sit, but still have the proper support.

[@professorschwartz2901]

What chair is that? That’s the foam combination I’m looking for

[@j1nftw1n]

Would this apply to the neutral posture 8000 also?

[@meio6907]

Any experience with Profim VIOLLE 150SFL? Apparently its a brand under Flokk. Was looking for Herman Miller chairs first, but they are really expensive and hard to come by in Czech Republic.

[@jakebrowning2373]

but WHY does it destroy your back?

[@manuelcasado43]

Will you guys ever try the boulies fit pro chair

[@rcrcrc222]

My CXO seat does nothing like you show in the video, mine seems much firmer and not as thick?

[@professorschwartz2901]

Is a thicker cushion ever ok if the foam itself isn’t so soft, like how about the neutral posture or OM seats? I’ve had back surgery and need a thicker cushion to prevent SI & back pain and nerve pain

[@photogasm5]

I have the Leap v2 and I hate it because of the seat. It's extremely uncomfortable and most days painful.

[@kevinkearney902]

I got a leap plus on the way, I hope my body acclamates with in the return period so I know for sure if it suits my body.

[@pcangeldust]

What about cold foam seats like you find on most gaming chairs

[@user-sd6yl5je6u]

I recently bought the BTOD Akir chair off BTOD site about 8 months ago, so far I have been okay, as far as I know. Hopefully I don't have this issue in the future with the thick seat.

[@nickmatv791]

I'd like to ask a question about the seat depth dealbreaker: I had the issue with Steelcase Amia, I am 6.2 and have long legs, so I basically had to pull seat the furthest from the backrest and my buttocks just fell in that space. I returned it eventually. Now the question is: does the Aeron and Embody have the same issue? And what chair can you recomend for that? Because it looks like every one of them has this issue when you have to pull the seat on a max depth from the backrest. Robert has 6.2, but that means none of these chairs can work out well if he has to follow this 2inch-distance rule for legs?

[@bojack3827]

Aeron has a short seat base (not adjustable). Embody is longer though (and adjustable).

[@aggiebrandon2007]

I don't know where Steelcase came up with the design changes in the seat for the Gesture. I have had this chair for years and I've never adjusted to it. The seat pad is just awful. After about an hour it is unbearable without an ergonomic seatpad (I use Purple). I notice that the Gesture also tends to roll my shoulders forward. I have a Leap V2 at work that I can sit in for hours and feel perfectly fine (shoulders and seat). Once you all release the Lamia, I am going to order it and hopefully adapt the Gesture arms to create the one chair to rule them all...Glamia.

[@Blakostructr]

I don't have any discomfort at all with the gesture, I'm pretty light though at 140lbs

[@defu8592]

I have a Arron classic, the only thing I don’t like is how it doesn’t sit up straight without the tilt function enabled. Does the leap v2 allow you to sit up straight without a tilt function?

[@Ben-xm6li]

The Aeron Remastered does, FYI. Not sure about the leap v2.

[@Idlepit2]

It's pretty obvious when you think about it, thick soft padding deforms more and more the longer you sit in it meaning it loses it ergonomics overtime and rather than your body conforming to the shape of the seat and keep you in a good posture, the seat conforms to your body and and you end up in a bad posture

[@chrisbesu817]

i have a Leap with the aftermarket headrest and was looking for something with a thicker seat, I bought the cxo in leather from you guys and it is the best chair I have purchased. I also own the lifeform 2390, humanscale freedom chair, herman miller aeron and embody and neutral posture 800. My conclusion is that is has to have the back of the chair mounted with a support on each side. The chairs that have a single blade of metal holding the bottom and back of the chair make it uncomfortable. The leap is a close second if it had a better pad and a good headrest, not the factory one!

[@professorschwartz2901]

How do you like the neutral posture? I’m considering the xsm but seems impossible to find one to try out and apparently no returns

[@chrisbesu817]

Was more or less like the lifeform, good for a couple hours but not for extensive use. I was really excited when I got it and really tried to like it, but at the end it was uncomfortable .Try the steelcase leap with the thicker pads that crandall office sells for it. cxo has double support and a thin back making it comfortable and cool. I also attached a headrest to it and its near perfect. SXM has single support blade where the backrest connects to the seat bottom of the chair.@@professorschwartz2901

[@somebody9214]

I wish some of the chairs tested by you guys were sold here, unfortunately none of the are found in my country (Brazil), none of the chairs available here has ever been tested to the extent that you guys go.

[@GMKiko]

3:21 - i hear you bro. Been there, obvs not with chairs but with girls :)

[@1440PGamingContent]

I'm in the processes of purchasing a high end chair to protect my back. I have concluded the Classic Aeron W/ Stool and Headrest would be ideal for long term ergo sustainability..

[@kennuimuffins2426]

Atlas headrest? It's very good. The aeron has become my main home chair, extremely good for lounging once you have a headrest and footstool. The tilt system and mesh seat pan is what makes it so 'loungy'. Other chairs like the leap v2 do not have the same kind of bouncy recline or seat pan.

[@Jason-vz4gx]

I'm thinking of buying the OM Yes due to it's seat but now I'm wondering if it might not be suitable for long term sitting due to the thick seat issue explained in the video.

[@btodtv]

The Yes could be a potential candidate for this problem but the one good thing about the Yes is that the seat foam is super responsive and bouncy. It doesn’t just sink into place and then hold you there like a memory foam seat. The contour also makes it a bit thinner in the middle. But, yea, it’s definitely something to think about with any thick seat. -Ryan

[@professorschwartz2901]

I’m considering OM because of the dual density foam with the softness and support, but I really cannot do contoured seats. I’m 5’4” so was looking at The paramount because you are recommended it for petite users but the seat appears contoured. I sat in an OM affirm and liked the flat, comfy seat, but the chair was way too big and didn’t have tilt lock. TIA! 🙂

[@theforgedone]

Is this also true of chairs like the SItmatic? It's hard to find reviews, but I know people at work who swear by them. They are much more comfortable than regular "ergonomic" chairs though. I wish BTODtv would review sitmatic chairs! like the beta, goodfit, etc.

[@LangleyNA]

Persist! Stay with it! Commit! _Do it!_ Do not doubt that you are moving in a better direction for your health! :)

[@JohnS-er7jh]

we all have to decide what is best for us when it comes to an office chair. I can assure you the erognomic 'expert' doesn't speak for everyone. I have a mid range price office chair at work that costs $750, its sturdy and on a scale of 1 to 10 for seat pad thickness (1 being the thinnest pad) it is around a 5 in terms of thickness. At home I never bought a high end chair because the retail stores dont' carry them. So I bought $200 chair from Staples (the Dormeo Espo Octaspring Managers Office Chair), it is a 6 in terms of the seat pad thickness. I also bought a ComfiLife Ergonomic seat cushion (it is contoured and also on the hard side as far as foam goes). After using for a number of years, my legs started hurting me. So I started testing different pad options. What worked was buying a 2 to 4 inch thick quality soft memory foam roll pad. I cut out square/not contoured pieces of foam to fit the seat and also the back of the chair. On the seat area, on top of the memory foam pad, I added a very thin soft cotton pillow. I am a heavy person. With this setup, I can sit however I want (for over 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year). I also added LargeLeaf Extra Memory Foam 2 inches thick Chair armrest Cushions Elbow Pillow pads on the chair to support my elbows when typing, and also I installed an under the office desk VIVO Large Keyboard Tray with C Clamp Mount System, so my hands are at a less strained level when typing.

[@btodtv]

May as well just work in a bean bag at this point. -Ryan

[@carrots6044]

@@btodtv What a rude response.

[@vonWeizhacker69]

same thing with bicycle saddles

[@SagarSiddhpura]

Nice video but why did it take you 4 years to put out this PSA?

[@BinkyTheGoddessDivine]

Been working from home for the last 3 years. I bought a fairly cheap chair ($180) with firm seating foam. Never had back problems because I always sit upright and don't lie back on the chair which I find uncomfortable. And every 30 minutes or so I stand up and stretch. I'm thinking about buying a new chair, and am glad I watched your video about buying those thick foam chairs. I probably could use it for another year or so. Best $180 I've ever spent. One more thing: your monitor is NOT a 49" Samsung. 🤣

[@c0348whn]

What’s with the fake laugh? He has a list of a previous setup, he didn’t say anything about that seemingly 32” monitor to be 49”.

[@yangarza]

damn - didn't realize it was LIKE THAT like that

[@jordanwilkinson7368]

I feel like I can't win for losing here. I had a discectomy last year so I need the support, but my butt is flat as a pancake so I need the cushion or else my tail and hip bones hurt.

[@12thparsec]

I just switched from a Leap to this because of how bad it was on my back and shoulders. I guess it's really a matter of personal preference

[@LangleyNA]

I just fetched my Steelcase Amia... I'm three or four days in now, and I'm not having the best time with my body adjusting. I've been told by your team indirectly through your videos to persist. I'm not _in pain,_ but I believe it's an adjustment process. Discomforts associated with the change in support and posturing. I'm working to be attentive. I have zero intentions or expectations I'll return the chair. It _has_ to be better than where I came from. My comment here is about the process. It may not be clear at first that you're moving in a better direction.

[@ethanm1762]

Just got the same chair and I'm feeling the same, did you ever get used to it?

[@LangleyNA]

Yes. I think the conditions where I was to where I am now have improved, yes. I think what's left are my own issues, like with how I sit or with ergonomics of my monitor configuration, and not to do with the Steelcase Amia. I do have to say, regarding the price tag, which is like $500-$1,000... I cannot fully appreciate the price spent at this time. My biggest interest is the furniture's durability. If it lasts without a hit in durability for more than three years, then I'll feel the price tag is justified more with each year going past that point. Because sub-$300 chairs always fail within three years in my and my family's experiences. I wish you and your Steelcase Amia well, ethanm1762.@@ethanm1762

[@Bearsheeps]

I just got my used amia a few days ago and I also had a weird time with my chair. First sit, relief but after longer sitting, I left sore. Like my body adjusting. Funny thing is, when I get up, I feel fine which was not the case sitting in my old chair which was uncomfortable sitting down AND felt uncomfortable for an hour or so after getting up. I'm still adjusting but Im WAY more comfortable sitting for long hours in my amia and the adjusting is fun to do throughout the day cause I always fidget anyway. Rn my lower back is iffy on this chair but I think it's because I don't need to have the back support so low.

[@yamcha111]

can you review a hag chair

[@btodtv]

Hag Sofi is in an upcoming tier list -Greg

[@luk2480]

Should have stayed in ErgoHuman

[@myhul]

I’m sorry but the real truth is that you should minimize your sitting. Stand, squat, hang, walk. That’s what makes a difference. I had lower back pain from constant sitting. I started to sit in a deep squat (10 min total) and hang (7 min total) daily. The only time I sit on a chair is when I eat and commute by car. The rest is a position or stance that actively engages my lower back, glutes and thighs.

[@btodtv]

Yea I agree with this. Just super hard for me to be productive at my computer when doing anything but sitting. -Ryan

[@ThisCanBePronounced]

​@@btodtvNow I need to know about squat-sit-stand-hang desks. :P

[@skyhawk77]

It wouldn't be the chair that destroyed your back, it would be that you are overweight and not sitting properly in the chair with your back in the wrong posture. If you have incurred an injury to your back, however minor, it's even more critically important that you are 1. Not overweight, 2. Sitting properly in the chair and not slumped over, and 3, having your head and neck correctly positioned in a comfortable position, 4. Getting up and moving from the chair at regular intervals, at least once every hour, and go for a walk-about to not only help your muscles and bones but to help your digestive system and ability to burn off any fat. Sitting inactive for too long in any chair isn't good for the body.

[@N0obusMaximus]

Yeah, it could be that a less comfortable chair compelled him to get up and walk around more, and that's what fixed his back pain. A comfortable chair can feel comfortable for hours, even when you're slouching.

[@btodtv]

I’ve been about the same weight for the last 15 years. About 180 lbs. I have not had significant changes to my exercise routine in that time and I have not introduced anymore or less movement into my workday. I have also used the same desk for that same time period. -Ryan

[@btodtv]

We sell the CXO for 3 times the price of our most popular chairs and my most recommended chairs. I’m not gaslighting anything. You assumption that very few people suffer from back pain is really off base as well. -Ryan