BIG BANG 6.0L LS (GEN 3&4)-SBE-TWIN TURBO-29 PSI! MAX BOOST!

FULL BOOSTED RESULTS (29 PSI!). JUNKYARD SBE 6.0Ls (Gen 3 vs Gen 4). We ran both a gen 3 and gen 4 6.0L to find out how much power the stock Block, Crank, Rods & Pistons can take. Of course we added ring gap, then topped them with good heads, cam and intake. We also added twin s475 Borg turbos and an ATW IC with Ice water. We cranked up the boost til they couldn't take it any more! Help us figure out what happened on the Gen 3 6.0L at Mega Boost!

[@camaromustangmods3327]

When Richard Holdner walks into a junkyard LS engines run for their lives. Great video.

[@jimimacross6115]

"LMAO!!!.."NO SHIT!!

[@philipwade5559]

LMAO!!!🤣🤣🤣

[@ariczacari]

Lmao!

[@bigblock509]

🤣

[@LS__812]

Or maybe they stand up straight, shoulders back and proudly say "I'll show the internet what I'm capable of!" Lol

[@SloppyMechanics]

lol at the snoring! for the recap!

[@richardholdener1727]

That's Milo

[@earlhopkins3745]

Richard, this is my most favorite test you've done. Mainly because I'm building a twin 403 stroker. After reviewing many of your videos on the LS 6.0's I have to think the intake and cam played big roles in your torque findings. On the Gen IV it seems you used a intake and cam that was designed for twin turbos. Let me know what your thoughts are. Also, I think both test may have been over turboed for such a small engine. Wouldn't 66-72mm turbos work better? What do these turbos look like when plotted on a map?

[@stevenjenks9789]

😂😂😂😆😆😆

[@claytoncarter]

I make the same noises hunched over at my computer. 😂

[@mosesjonathan1240]

instablaster

[@TheTmshuman]

Woke up and almost called the cops to go looking for you when I didn’t see a 2 am upload. Thank god your OK.

[@jaydubb71]

LMAO right!

[@robertelmo7736]

LOL a "wellness check"?

[@hydrocarbon82]

"Check the SHOP first? What kinda nut are we checking in on? Jeez" -Cops, probably

[@jamesaustin4044]

Snoring dog was not impressed. Gonna have to step it up somehow, Richard. ; )

[@richardholdener1727]

they R my film crew

[@camaromustangmods3327]

Lol. I thought I was the only one who heard that. Good shit.

[@johnparrish9215]

@@richardholdener1727 Sounded just like my English Bulldog, Roscoe.

[@fredred8371]

Let sleeping dogs lie

[@robertelmo7736]

That's funny, this old stray (found sitting in the middle of the road) in the bed behind me is knocking it out right now. I thought the sounds were him and didn't realize it until I was perusing through the comments lol! He's doing good since he won the lottery.

[@LS__812]

Richard. I wanna thank you for blessing my days with a bountiful amount of horsepower, torque, and power adders! I do truly enjoy your love of building and testing engines and it definitely shows thru your videos! Please keep'em coming!

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx will do

[@kevinanglin678]

@@richardholdener1727 Can we see a coyote big bang comparison video?

[@gordocarbo]

To this day nobody even in the magazine days has done a variety of testing to every known application. Richard youve come a long ways bud. I

[@richardholdener1727]

think power and not boost

[@killsalltires156]

Can't believe a stock 6.0 can hold that much power. That's a badass motor with a few minor upgrades no wounder it's such a popular motor to swap out. Thanks for all your knowledge and commitment to blowing Motors up Richard!. 👍🙏🇨🇦

[@jeepwk6.5L]

It didn't hold it, but it made it 😅

[@gordocarbo]

@@jeepwk6.5L Yes, which is still impressive. STock rod bolts wow. Wonder where the sweet spot is between good power and longevity Most these LS turbos builds scatter after a bit.

[@jeepwk6.5L]

@@gordocarbo I agree, and yeah greed will get the best of any racer haha

[@glennroy-johnson705]

Your big bang test is what gave me the final push to try and swap a ls1 into a car, then Matt gave me the knowledge and kick in the pants to just get it done. Thank You.

[@Erichhh]

Gen 3 rods buckle at a lower cylinder pressure than the beefier Gen 4 rods, and the higher torque production of the Gen 3 at the lower RPM meant that it had higher cylinder pressure vs. the Gen 4. Usually the rods buckle in an "S" shape due to the I-beam cross section being weaker in that direction. This makes the rod shorter, which makes the piston pin bosses hit the crank counterweights. The pin boss gets dented, then grabs the pin. One key difference in Gen 3 was that the pins are press-fit into the rod eye, vs. full-floating on Gen 4. This grabbing/binding makes the piston crack and break, then massive destruction happens from there because there's an unrestrained T-shaped battering ram bouncing around in the cylinder bore.

[@Erichhh]

Here's what it looks like if you catch it before the piston pin boss gets dented enough to grab the piston pin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/emGrmZKkeZWBZ7M

[@BIGTONY2132001]

" I'll show you some of the damage is pretty cool" everyone here definitely loves this guy!!

[@tngtacticalmiata1219]

I still can't get over how much power you can make with these motors straight from the damn junk yard. It's obscene! And awesome!!!! It used to cost upwards of $30 or $40k to make that kind of power. Unreal.....

[@JD-rq7il]

That $30-40k will make that power day in and day out. You are on borrowed time pushing 1500hp on these engines. Don't get me wrong, it's flat out awesome, but these are no comparison to the built motors of the heavy hitting companies...

[@internetpointsbank]

Forged piston and decent rods this engine would be no different.

[@tngtacticalmiata1219]

@@internetpointsbank indeed... You could even say the same thing to a slightly lesser degree about a mod-motor... I'm planning one of those in fact. 95 Mark Viii with a decent rod and piston package should actually live for quite a while at pretty damn high output... depending on how hard it's driven, of course....

[@gordocarbo]

Its still costs that much...for one that will hold together. Interesting builds but blowing engines isnt my thing

[@mannyr.2756]

Long live the LS family, LS rules!....🤘

[@MattPratt]

The Richard Holdener tax coming to a junkyard near you. Buy stonks in used LS engines now!

[@Aseutester]

What about the new DI LTs?!

[@XHikotheproX]

Man I love these videos. Not often you see somebody sharing this kind of information and it just helps the car community in general.

[@chadshows187]

Awesome content as usual, keep it up Richard! I'd love to see a 6.0 turbo tow motor build to focus on maximizing torque made low. Not crazy numbers but a good reliable combo.

[@jacegdisis3720]

Me too, just towed about 7.5k to 8.5k lbs yesterday and I had to go up some very steep grades in my 2004 silverado (6.0L) and she was struggling I’d approach the hills at about 65-70mph and drop down to 50-55mph at 75% throttle, and I have like a 4.10 diff so good for towing, I just need to make more power

[@marcowens-gq5sy]

​@@jacegdisis3720 no you need to regear if you're towing that much. You need 4.56 gears or higher.

[@solomon4933]

​@@marcowens-gq5syyeah towing a turbos 😆 U want a strong tow vehicle go a pd blower easy

[@Tiersmoke92555]

The best dynoman on that side of the Mississippi. "I guarantee!" "A little boost for you, a little boost for me."

[@soundslikealot]

Wow, now that's what you call TORQUE! 💪 Awesome!

[@johnwoodworth248]

It is amazing how "easy " it is to make four digit power number ratings these days , you take 15 or 20 years ago if you told somebody that you had a small block that made an excess of thousand horsepower that you could go drive every day and get groceries with they would probably look at you quite strange lol

[@viciousrap700]

And with shelf parts and not a ton of money. You'd spend way more in the chassis of a car to make it really work for the full potential of the engine.

[@michaelcouey1383]

I remember the old days reading freiburger's articles where they'd do a "budget build" that was still over $2500 and they were overjoyed when it made one HP per CI

[@PredaFran]

@@michaelcouey1383 keep in mind the cost for the engine management system and the electrical parts and supplies needed will hey close to that before the turbos are in the budget. horsepower is cheap but not that cheap. These Engines make payment wet not only because of the engine being better but the management system being light years ahead

[@Aseutester]

@@PredaFran Hear hear EFI is a quantum leap better than 20+ years ago!

[@PredaFran]

@@Aseutester EFI and electronic ignition timing are absolutely a quantum leap. I'm not saying a carb and a dizzy can't make big power but you are giving power and reliability away. Which you definitely want when doing 4 digit power a

[@CHINGY1993]

These videos are top stuff so much good ls info thank you so much richard

[@MafiaboysWorld]

Definitely has to do with rod thickness Richard. Gen 3s have thinner rods compared to Gen 4s so putting 1330ft/lb will snap the Gen 3 rods all day. After reading some articles I notice that there were some Gen 3s fitted with Gen 4 internals around 2004-05 during the transition to Gen 4. Maybe that's the solution, Gen 4 rods in the Gen 3 block. 🤔

[@Redmaro96]

Correct I have a Lq4 out of a 04 Sierra 2500 and it was a gen 3 with gen 4 internals no vvt or afn

[@dustinjackson8646]

Same here. 2005 Gen 3 5.3 with Gen 4 internals. Got lucky!

[@tylersmith7054]

My first junkyard motor was an 05 5.3 L59. It was a gen 3 with gen 4 rods.

[@dudemcgee256]

Really? I have a 2005 GMC Sierra Denali with an LQ9, I wonder if it has the bigger rods?

[@cc23001]

Yes we call those gen 3.5s. Easiest way to tell is they went from 10mm to 13mm heads on the exhaust manifold and valley cover bolts

[@davestumpsracingperformanc3475]

Im glad we have you for guidance and reference sir! Always great vids and you are very helpful! Thank you sir 🏁

[@CamaroRick]

The rod wasnt all discolored so it doesnt look like a bearing failure. Makes sense. Now test the limits of cheap forged H beam vs I beam

[@ernestoyager1689]

29 pounds of boost on stock bottom end is absolutely ludacris! Gm made those things insanely well

[@53chevsled]

I think the powdered metal rods of the gen3’s are weaker rods than the gen 4’s but at the same time the camshaft timing events of the twin turbo cam used in the gen 4 would also make a big difference in the torque curve/delivery , either way a great video showing the limiting factors of both gen’s 😎👍👍

[@escuelaviejafarms]

I blew a block once. Grenadeed a 350 in a truck that I just bought on the I-5 freeway, heading to L.A. for the weekend. I smoked all 5 Lanes of rush hour traffic, LOL. No power adders needed, LOL!

[@Stevesbe]

I threw a rod on a 350 in my 260z and had it towed back to my nice gated community apt parking lot not knowing what had happened to it. Later that night a neighbor knocked on my door to tell me my car was hemorrhaging all over the parking lot . The water filled up the pan and pushed all the oil out of the hole in the block I didn't see.

[@escuelaviejafarms]

@@Stevesbe I left all the oil in the engine from the fast lane, all the way to the side of the road to the right of the slow lane. I had to stand with both feet on the brakes to get the 3/4 ton 1972 Chevy to a safe stop. I jumped out and checked out the bottom of the engine, it was pissing oil all over. I eventually got it towed back to base and started working on it at the auto shop. Come to find out the #7 piston popped, literally left a hole the size of my fist in the lifter valley and a chunk of rod went south. I pulled a H.O. 305 out of a burnt up 80's Camaro, dropped it in and never could get it to run right. I didn't have the money to store it at the auto shop and fix it, so I handed them the title to pay for the bill. I miss that truck.

[@randywilliams4325]

Build the gen 3 engine again with gen 4 rods or some aftermarket rods .

[@bobbobby1846]

this do this!

[@shadowopsairman1583]

You can get a 2007 Classic Bowtie block with gen 4 parts, LR4, LM7 etc

[@BruceLee-xn3nn]

Powdered metal rods were used in later model 7.3 powerestrokes. They're not that great at handling torque

[@bluemustang7416]

Definitely thought provoking video. Can't wait to see the follow up. To see if the gen3 is capable of more peak power.

[@LEGOCAMARO]

Trying to make the most out of a stock bottom end. My first change would be the fuel Nitromethane would let you run cooler and make more power with less psi. But will not be for a long term deal. Don’t hit it hard off the pull and check the rods for any sharp points where heat can build up. Round them off.

[@genelong1748]

Thank you. Love your shows . Would love to tell you about my father and his turbo corvair. When everyone gave up he kicked asses in Texas auto cross now called rally

[@TurboDog73TX]

I definitely feel that the quicker torque rise of the Gen 3 version is what killed it. I'd really like to see any or all the big bang tests done on M1..

[@dgo9121]

You know shit is about to go down when he says "we're gonna get all CSI up in here"

[@RL-RL]

So if possible, always go with Gen4 rods. Got it!

[@alafrosty]

Nope. The Gen-4 rods didn't exceed 1250 ft-lbs. You only know that the Gen-3 rods are known good for 1300+ foot-lbs and that the gen-4 rods are known-good for 1250+ ft-lbs. Without seeing a gen-4 drop a rod on a dyno run, I'd put my money on the gen-3 rods for strength. That said, the gen-4 6.0 rods were designed to be stronger. But how do they really work/fail at the limit?

[@bigitaly4554]

Awesome testing, Richard I’m currently building up a 6.0 to put in my 79 Trans Am. Going N/A for now, but plan to put a turbo on it as budget allows. Hoping for like 440hp/400tq now, 650hp/640tq with added atmosphere.

[@shannonsisk]

I think it might be gear changes that are the hardest on the stock bottom ends. Spinning to 7k making 1k hp and then BAM shift gears and draaaags the motor down in rpm. That’ll make some cylinder pressure

[@Baard2000]

Thats the difference in building an engine for drag race , road race , tractor pull etc...

[@christiancapps9896]

I finally realised who you remind me of, rich christenson. He used to do a show called pink's. Probably the hair cut but you've got quite the personality. Thanks for the vids you put out, found you after watching sloppy forever.

[@chezleymcdonald2481]

Christian Capps no offense but Richard has forgotten more than that dumb as at Pinks lol in the first season he did the arm drop with his hands by his side and flung them in the air when he wanted the cars to leave lol

[@richardholdener1727]

Matt does good stuff over there-Rich Christensen had a good run over at Pinks

[@basscube5]

You're overthinking how to reduce the torque a little to keep the engine alive. Soften up the timing at/below the torque peak but I feel like you know this ;) We manage traction at the drag strip through ignition timing because turbos don't respond in an instant. Wonderful content btw. Love your channel.

[@rifleman7313]

Great job analyzing the difference between gen 3 and gen 4 6.0L. I imagine that it would be more prevalent if it was a gen 3 5.3L and a gen 4 5.3L based 383 stroker. However I don't know.

[@slysithejuicegy]

To really push the gen 3 I think you need both strategies. Cam\head's\intake\turbo to shape the torque curve and boost management as a final safeguard. There is no point trying to make power up high if the combo is spent. Anyways this is all old news in the 4 cylinder world. They push boost right to the ragged edge of the rods, piston's and head gaskets. The tuner can window the block on command.

[@2JZLS]

So excited to see what the Gen 4 can do with the 4-bar MAP sensor! I predict over 1750hp.

[@kenhar1000]

nuts to run that much boost on that combo. surprised the head gaskets held. #1 engine just broke a rod due to load. I've seen other LS lift heads off the gaskets with studs at those boost levels. in short there was nothing wrong with either engine just not created to do that much on stock parts, but did show what an LS can do!!!!!!!!!

[@funnlivinit]

Yes. The entire premise of the series is to find out how much power they can take. I guess he found out!

[@ryancrisp6786]

I don't think the engine failing and trying to find a way to fix it by limitimg it is the right thought process here. You have successfully found the limit of the stock rods. That's it. Don't go over this torque number. It's a definitive test and gives undeniable results. Now, the EXACT same parts (cam, heads, etc) on the gen4 would show the difference in the rods, which we know are the biggest difference in the engines. We want to see a 100% direct comparison on addition to the different combos.

[@johnwehunt4305]

L33 block with Gen IV rotating assembly. Cheap way to survive the carnage.

[@alafrosty]

I think that your assessment that the peak torque broke the rods is completely evidence-based and, thus, a really good one. Boost pressure control: Limit torque on the motors that use these rods to ~1250 ft-lbs. Keep boost at full until at around 4600 rpm and over the next 100 rpm, gradually start losing a bit of the boost pressure so that the torque peaks at ~1250 at 4700 rpm. From that rpm and up, via experimentation with boost, figure out how much boost at each rpm is required to maintain 1250 ft-lbs up to your red-line. Yes, you could unsafely run it a bit higher than that, but allowing for production variation leaves less than 10% from a known failure point. That's a good enough safety margin rather than breaking expensive hardware. If you've got that much control over boost, you might see if you can select different turbochargers that would make more boost lower in the rpm range and then dump more over the rpm range where peak torque from supplied boost would exceed your 1250 ft-lbs "maximum safe torque loading."

[@Eidrian111]

Damn those gen 3 are awesome. Currently installing an lq9 with heads cams intake exhaust and procharger on a C5 Z06. I believe some diapers are in order.

[@michaellecount5146]

I have learned so much from your videos! Thank you for sharing!

[@MadAdventure919]

Damn.... I have fully build 6.0l gen 4 on my twin turbo vette on 22psi E85 now and scratching my head if I should turn up 2psi more. 😆

[@richardholdener1727]

yes

[@markdonovan9247]

Another great video!

[@zackthomas5707]

New to forced induction, but I love this channel! Awesome video as always. Gonna try and take a stab at solving this so please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you reduce the timing in that rpm/ air mass range and maybe add a tiny bit more fuel to keep things a little cooler during that ramp in period(poor mans power enrichment if I may), that would pretty much do it wouldn't it? Also, if you limit boost on the intake side through the BOV assuming that's possible, you might spool those compressors up a bit faster by bypassing restrictions in the engine, reducing resistance on the compressors and work load on the turbines. Then you could dial it in perfect ramping in exactly how you need it. Like I said, I'm new to forced induction on gassers so by all means school me if I'm off in left field. Again awesome video.

[@shanemiller9307]

I think I’ve watched this 10 times. Great video

[@brittoncraig9331]

I'd like to see the timing tables from both

[@darwinfridgeseals741]

Yes please.

[@ryguy440]

Yeah and wondering what is driving your timing curves. Are you monitoring detonation?

[@Aseutester]

Very good question, the exhaust Gas temps must be going stratospheric!

[@bobqzzi]

When I used to do turbo imports, I would generally set the torque at what I figured the internals and drivetrain could take. Once it was on the gate, I would adjust boost to keep the torque at say 300 lb/ft

[@gordocarbo]

same way i built my Gen 1 camino. Trans rated at 450 so didnt want more than 450-500tq. Holds it perfectly, like a giant 2 stroke motorcycle that dont break

[@stacekirstein9646]

I’d like to see the high ram on the gen 4 - I think the difference in torque may be found in the change in intake manifold

[@douglaspierce316]

see the chart better with you smiling face moved. thank you. love the show. what a great job you do. [and have great job]

[@yuyaarai8207]

I’d like to see the comparison between draw through turbo setup vs the blow through turbo setup. Also I’d be interested to see if draw through setup works just fine with EFI just like pre-turbine water/methanol injection but with gasoline or E85. I appreciate you and your videos.

[@dalethomas9307]

Im my experience pre turbo water/meth injection is hell on the compressor blades. Think about how fast the compressor is spinning and the fact that it is ingesting liquid not a vapor. there is never enough inlet pipe in front of the the turbo to get the nozzle far enough away from the compressor for the liquid to totally atomize.

[@414Chevy]

I think the biggest factor for the Gen 3 failure was the thinner rods vs thicker rods on the Gen 4. Gen 3 rods are like 608-610 grams, Gen 4's are like 657 grams, bigger beam and crank journal end. That's why a lot of junk yard build guys look for the Gen 4's over the Gen 3's. You reached the physical limit of the Gen 3 rod beam, probably started to stretch, or crack. I bet the Gen 4 engine could go to 1300 lb/ft and live. Gen 4 rods are very stout for a factory rod. Impressive that the Gen 3 could go so high before failing. Very very good info, thanks!!!!

[@keysautorepair6038]

Question is how long will they live at this hp number.

[@EPstroker]

Guessing about as long as a top fuel motor at the drag strip. Haha

[@philllsxga.7737]

That's what I ask. He should build a daily driver tester and moderately beat on it..

[@joshuagibson2520]

Yes. Leave it to us second gen Fbody guys to ask the important questions. Lol

[@joshuagibson2520]

See Cleetus' channel for the answer. 😂😂😂

[@robertbelcher5068]

depends how often you spend it. Not many places where you can put that kind of power to the road.

[@AndyR1982]

Love the videos. Something that personally made me like this specific video more was the fact that the Borg Warner you showed was cast at my company. I can tell by the CT foundry identifier after the 063G. And I'll go as far as to tell you it was molded and cast October 14, 2014.

[@davidleslie6207]

With all of this CRAZY HP and Torque, you need to test transmissions for there ability to hold this power.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

Ally a need is a Saginaw 4 gear to hold that power, because they hold up to a basic chevy crate 350. ;) By Saginaw 4 speed I mean Lenco or Liberty manual, or a built with billet everywhere automatic.

[@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm]

@@SweatyFatGuy your dreaming with the saginaw = m22 muncie always out did them = i sold many spare parts cluster gears and main shafts for saginaw boxes - m22 only bearings and seals ! so your WRONG !

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm Ya didn't read everything I said.. lol. I deliberately picked the least durable 4 gear offered behind V8s, the Sag is only marginally stronger than the T5. Ya know, an M22 is going to die behind 1300ftlbs if it ever hooks. I build transmissions, so I am quite aware of what will handle what power, and what it takes to make a Th400 live up there. If you happened to have read all of this comment, you will notice in the previous one I said by Saginaw I meant Lenco or something equally stout.

[@viciousrap700]

Thump Er I quite enjoyed the sarcasm in the comment lol

[@SweatyFatGuy]

@@viciousrap700 Why thank you, I will be her all week, try the veal and tip your waitstaff.

[@Motor-City-Mike]

It's a question of cylinder pressure rise over time. This manifests itself in two ways, bring the boost in too early and the engine "spikes" the pistons with an overly high peak load (the lower rpm represents a longer period of time to "load" the cylinder with the intake charge), the higher boost at lower rpm represents Back Pressure - which indicates the engine isn't capable of processing the airflow the turbo(s) are producing at that engine speed. The alternate is ignition timing. The quickest way to destroy a boosted engine is to have it go into detonation under boost, the "hammering" effect knocks down ring lands, knocks holes in the piston(s), pounds the upper rod bearing and lower mains, and if violent enough breaks the rod. Without inspecting the entire bottom end it's just guessing why it failed - the parts themselves will show signs of exactly why it failed. Another question; did the rod fail in extension or compression? Hang an intake valve open and with the piston in "toss" mode it'll pull the rod apart. Gotta read the parts.

[@Tylerbfz]

I think with the different cam and different heads between the two it’s kinda of hard to say which is better. I’d like to see the test redone with all matching parts on both engines so we have a definitive answer

[@Zach4046792]

These are very impressive numbers on a stock block with top end and some twins. I would love to see this test done again on a fully built engine with more bar. All out run for power. 35lbs+

[@richardholdener1727]

we r near the limit of the stock block

[@16vg60mikey]

Excellent video! Making more torque and at a lower RPM is a sure way to test those rods. Wonder how far you could push the earlier motor with a progressive boost curve to keep torque in check.

[@ktmr8]

Now while these tests are great to watch and really help with understanding the limitations of the factory parts and pieces; there is no way I’d run that much power without forged internals!... and as for turning the boost down; well that’s not going to happen so I’m going to put parts in my motor that will keep it alive and leave all the guys who boast “it’s all factory” do the mop and broom work!

[@andyharman3022]

"and leave all the guys who boast 'it's all factory' do the mop and broom work". Now that's funny, right there, I hope to tell you!

[@matthewritchie3595]

Love your videos. I have a question I wanna build something that can be daily driven and not have a ton of lag. 4500rpm looks like when boost comes on I'm looking more for 3000rpm range to make it more driver friendly. Is it possible to test it on littler smaller turbos and still make 1200 or more HP for good low grunt then crank the boost and race. Also interested in MPG effects and longevity keep up good works man these videos I live for.

[@scottvadon2095]

I L😍❤E this stuff !!! If(when?) I win the lottery I will built my own dyno cell and do this with mostly pushrod 5.0 HOs and some other crazy things I have rattling around in my head.

[@richardholdener1727]

I've done lots of 5.0L-still have my 1988 5.0L LX bought back in Nov 1987

[@scottvadon2095]

I bought a 1989 LX hatch new in February '89 ... wish I still had it. Been wanting another Fox. My current project is a 1978 Mustang II with a "Budget"(?😛) twin turbo 5.0HO

[@wakjob961]

CONGRATS ON 30K !

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx_I need to do something

[@omegared8663]

I love your channel. no bs. Straight to the point.

[@benbrown2119]

How about a stout set of aftermarket rods in the Gen 3 and then find the next weakest link?

[@dilsher12]

Usually after that it's hard to get the head gasket to stay sealed

[@jaydubb71]

@@dilsher12 exactly

[@viciousrap700]

Yup that's what I said!

[@rongravel4585]

Piston ring lands and then the stock MLS head gasket would be the next failure points. After 30lbs of boost there’s a lot of precautions taken just to hold the pressure in.

[@jaydubb71]

All you need is a set of Gen 4 rods...

[@Levibetz]

Interesting stuff! I agree with bleeding the boost in. Get the engine to rev harder, it looks like the torque curve isn't dropping off too hard. If you can make more power between say 5500 and 7500, that's a win for a race car, that's where it'd be during a pass.

[@MastersOfMask]

Can you make a video comparing non VVT and VVT GEN4 on boost. Both with the same amount of boost and rpm and with similar cams profiles.

[@richardholdener1727]

VVT and Non VVT will have different cam profiles by design

[@RussellTelker]

I think the biggest difference would be power under the curve, VVT "should" be able to produce more torque earlier and maintain it out the end. That's all in the tuning, manipulating the cam timing to optimize it for that rpm.

[@blk95gsrt]

If the cams were the same and both setups were optimized the peak hp and tq would be the same, but you could have power over a broader range with the vvt.

[@littleherms3285]

You can control the torque with ign. timing. Very fast and effective. Boost is more difficult to manipulate effectively on the fly. Yes you can dial in a boost curve with today's electronics but in the end, the light off timing determines peak cyl. pressure.

[@Blood04]

i can't wait for that 4 bar run

[@stevensullivan1805]

I noticed the exhaust glowing red for quite awhile before the bottom end popped. The pistons will melt first usually seizing to the bore causing load on the rod. Needed carefully inspect the cylinder on tear down to determine what failed. I realize this may be impossible with to much damage. This would tell what direction tune up needs to go.

[@richardholdener1727]

it was not tune

[@stevensullivan1805]

@@richardholdener1727 you are probably right. With the best setups 7.5 static plus 30 lbs of boost is at drag racing limits usually half to run alcohol fuels to keep it alive for 10 seconds at wot.

[@YZFoFittie]

The 'ol lady is gonna be pissed when she finds out you recorded her snoring!

[@richardholdener1727]

that's the male Golden

[@BOOSTJUNKY]

i thought i was hearing it in my head haha so came to the comments

[@YZFoFittie]

@@richardholdener1727 yeah, suuure buddy... =)

[@greazedlightninggarage6768]

👏😁 I learn something everytime I tune in!!!

[@jasonshawaga3413]

1:10. Fuel leaking a bit. Crazy power tho!

[@35057]

I had my head in the diesel world for a short time (during my brief hiatus from LS cars) and the diesel guys were finding that these “power under the curve” tunes and big boost down low was what was snapping cranks on the LBZ (that and stock balancers aren’t the best for either.) Buddy of mine still has good power out of his 375k mile LBZ but spins it to 6000 rpm and it’s been happy. He’s pretty hard on that truck with sled pulls but maybe some of the LS guys were finding too much torque too low isn’t the best idea. The diesels seem to live the best when making power after peak torque. Just an perspective I’ve found interesting lately.

[@davidcunningham00]

Someone is sleeping,. And this makes me rethink of my gen 3 rods, I was wanting to make 800

[@richardholdener1727]

Goldens

[@StevenWillmy]

I'd love to see more boost curves that build gradually, just to keep torque flat. 1200lbft @ 7500RPM = 1700HP

[@ABetterLifeInc]

I think it was the higher torque at a lower RPM.

[@completetuningsolutions]

100% agree with you. Much lower power levels but we snapped a rod on purpose on a 6g72 around 15 years ago, just to find that limit (we broke one off clean, another one bent). Did the same thing, torque dropped faster than the previous pulls and then snapped with massive carnage about 1000rpm later after the decline. What was the pull before like (the one that didn't pop the gen 3 and made it full time, about 1220 ft lbs. Curves more closely mirror lower pulls. Nice work, thank you for the research.

[@austindoud273]

Didn't window the block go again

[@MunCompetition]

twin turbo cam made it softer in mid range and it makes more power and spins about 1000rpm higher. Looks like it has even power on top at least 1500rpm. Maybe just bigger turbos so it comes in later but makes more power on top. I also would like to see just big air to air intercooler vs air to water.

[@Prenquall]

Soo what your saying is 27.9psi is the safe point? 😂

[@RonnieQualls-wy1lp]

I'd say 26psi call it even

[@BLKMGK4]

Own a 911 turbo, we have shit rods and they bend with big torque and the trans hates it too. We dork the timing in the midrange to lower torque and run lower boost and then once torque peak has passed we ramp in the ignition and throw boost at it for a top end charge. Still runs great in the mid but as the RPMs climb it takes off - worth it for sure!

[@brandonpeery8209]

What timing was run between the two?

[@Mattvardaman]

Great content, this is probably the fourth time I’ve watched this one.

[@leemer200]

Lower ignition timing around peak torque and bring it back in with higher rpm. You have max cylinder pressure at peak torque so be gentle on stock rods. What was the ignition timing from 4,000 to 5,000 and what fuel?

[@mechanictaft4848]

Yup he doesnt know how to set a fuel curve and timming

[@GreatLakesLogger]

@@mechanictaft4848 he knows what he's doing

[@Aseutester]

@@mechanictaft4848 How many engines have you dyno metered?!

[@dustinwolfe9591]

I think this is a really solid idea. I mean were just bench racing but thats a gem of a suggestion buried down here in the comments.

[@yettibuilt]

Love your videos thank you Richard. New headphones here..... so I hear a frenchie in the background? Those snores sound familiar 😅

[@richardholdener1727]

golden

[@02badfnz]

Oh wow...seems like a gen 3 motors are better than what we think

[@typrus6377]

POP! Goes the boost hose! Always fun to lose a hose on a hard pull... First time I had it happen on a 25psi pull, I thought a dang shotgun went off... Had just upgraded the turbo to boot. Nearly had a heart attack and a need for fresh britches, but thankfully held it together hahaha

[@Amsinckster]

To limit torque i would reduce timing.

[@olof103eriksson]

In europe we use electronic boost controllers all the time. We can get some pretty nice power figures from taking the torque up to a certain level and then add boost to keep the torque in a straight line all the way to the rev limiter. For example a stock Volvo B230 engine can take 450nm of torque without overstressing it. If we then pull it past 7000 with rising boost to keep those 450nm we will have 450hp out of a 70´s engine that had 115hp to start with I generally talk about the amount of torque the engines can take rather than power. Its kind of important when you choose a turbo setup for customers

[@funfun8095]

HANDS Holdener! 👐👍

[@escuelaviejafarms]

🤘🤣🤘

[@thedarkgreenvanman]

I’d say the torque killed it, would be interesting to see the heads/cams/etc that’s in the Gen4 put onto the Gen3 if you really want to find out if it’s rods or boost that did it though. If anyone can hit 2000hp on a stock block you’re the one to do it

[@Hillside-Hotrods]

How about a video on hp vs fuel consumption, turbos vs Na levels of hp vs fuel consumption. I would love to have 800hp, but if I can’t put fuel in the tank and enjoy it what’s the point. Should I have 500hp Na, or 500 hp with turbo? Or go 600 turbo. Does twin turbo help as a street car? Thanks

[@cc23001]

DSFC is usually always be lower with a NA engine. FI needs extra fuel to keep the combustion cool and such. Can't dare run them lean either, which is actually a thing for NA engines in cruise

[@Hillside-Hotrods]

ChanMan405 , id knew that part. I would like to see numbers on how much fuel the engine will burn compared to hp. Is there a sweet spot for the ls engine? How much more fuel does it take to go from 400 to 500, or 500 to 600?

[@Hillside-Hotrods]

Fuel mileage can be rated in pound per hour. As well as mike per gallon.

[@Hillside-Hotrods]

Richard, , can you do some kind of calculation on how much fuel is going into a ls motor comparing size and forced induction. Does the ls have a sweet spot for horsepower and induction type. Does that keep the peanut gallery happy?

[@yeahok115sure]

Who is snoring? I keep hearing someone or something snoring?? 😂 once again a cool video. I’m about to start a turbo LS 6.0 build

[@richardholdener1727]

Milo my Golden is unimpressed and asleep

[@yeahok115sure]

Richard Holdener 😂😂😂 I have three Golden’s and the fat one of my bunch snores like that!!!!

[@Nickyb801]

Can you share some of the Holley tune files? Like sloppy mechanic tune cabinet. Nice to be able to reference timing on the boosted LS engines.

[@richardholdener1727]

the tuning (timing table) is only WOT-so the file is useless for anything but engine dyno runs

[@tptrsn]

I think at 166ft-lbs per spindly little rod beam, those gen 3 rods gave all they had. BUT I am super excited to see what you can squeeze out of the gen 4 with the rest of the boost! :)

[@laborer4321]

Great work!!! Definitely was the tq that that pushed the gen3 over the edge. What s475 were you using on the gen3? Either run the s475 but with a bigger turbine wheel to slow down some of the boost or run a bigger cam to soften the midrange tq. Also was it me or was there fuel leaking on the gen3 driver side rail? I have a gen3 4.great with a t4 s475 (7575) with a jfr 212/212 that I daily. It's been my favorite setup out of all my ls powered rides.

[@hydrocarbon82]

A rod that snaps like that is the wrist pin flexing and biting the piston. As the crank rotates, the rod resists and bends. In other cases the piston cracks the skirts, rips the bottom half off, or totally shatters. I'd love to see a stock piston/rod with upgraded wrist pin.