Big Block Wars! 454 Chevy vs 455 Pontiac vs 455 Olds vs 451 Mopar! From Lucore Automotive

Well this episode has been a LONG time coming, and here it finally is our much delayed Big Block Wars featuring iron headed (mostly) big blocks from Chevy, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Mopar all with similar street setups throwing down on the dyno to see what's what! Every gearhead has their favorite but which one is better? Or... is there one that's better? We run them all, discuss their builds, and give you a breakdown of each!
First off we have a classic 454 LS6 Big Block Chevy, this was a GM Performance Motor purchased in the mid 80s to power a classic '57 GMC Truck. Stuffed full of good stuff from the "factory" this motor just needed an overhaul and cam change to bring it down more into the range more fitting the truck it was powering. Of the 4 units we tested this one is also the only one running a roller cam and valve train, but still give us some very useful information. Classic wisdom says the 454 Chevy is the best... is that true?
Secondly we ran an in house built 455 Oldsmobile that will be powering Rich's own '65 Oldsmobile F-85. The factory crank and rods were checked and reconditioned then topped with a set of SpeedPro pistons, and an out of the box set of Speedmaster heads. Of the four motors we ran this is the only one with aluminum heads and honestly we feel are equivalent to a set of GOOD cast iron Oldsmobile heads. How did the ole "FA" Olds Rocket 455 do?
Thirdly came the Pontiac 455, mated to a set of 6X cast iron heads. This motor came out of our own 1970 Pontiac LeMans and actually performed pretty respectably when tested. To accompany the freshly rebuilt heads we ran the factory crankshaft, Eagle forged rods, and SRP forged pistons. This motor was also fully machined and assembled at Performance Research Inc in Columbus Ohio so there IS some more advanced "machine shop magic" hiding inside. Would the Poncho show why the 455 GTO was often considered a king of the streets?
Finally we have tossed the freshly built 451 Stroker Mopar on the dyno that will be the new heart for 73ChargerChic 's "Momma's Mopar" 74 Dodge Charger. Built out of a 1977 Dodge 400 block with the rotating assembly out of a early 70s 440 the machined and prepped setup brough displacement within striking range of the other 3 big blocks so we thought it was fitting. On top of the classic Mopar rods we mounted some ICON forged pistons to handle any future track abuse that is likely coming. Not many people know of this type build, so it's been a pretty interesting experience bringing it to life. Will this B series Mopar Big Block sneak up on the competition?
We hope you enjoy this episode, these motors have been coming together over the past 3 years and getting a chance to finally film all this was great. 4 of the big boys of Classic American Muscle all in one video! Which one won? Well, what do YOU think?
Lucore Automotive is a small independent american small business located just outside Columbus Ohio. While we are a full service shop that maintains and repairs countless daily drivers we are also well known for our work on classics, race cars, and collector cars.
We would like to thank all of our friends, fans, follower, supporters, subscribers, and most importantly customers for being here with us! Without the wonderful people who let us work on their toys, and help their dreams come true we wouldn't be in business!

[@theeoddments960]

Every comment on this video: “Where’s the (insert either rare one off or wrong year span engine here)?” My question is: Where’s the Pontiac 301 dude? This test is bogus unsubscribed worst entertainment video ever

[@theeoddments960]

Where’s the Buick nailhead or Pontiac super duty or ford flathead or big block Packard! I’m so angry at you for not putting these totally weird engines that nobody builds on the dyno!

[@LucoreAuto]

Hahaha, YOU win the comments section so far! Thank you for that :)

[@LucoreAuto]

In all honesty... I hate to say this but there IS a 425 Nailhead in the works ;)

[@theeoddments960]

Lucore Auto and LucoreRacing admittedly the nailhead is a great engine. Have a 401 in my 66 Electra and that thing gives me perspective on these big blocks in that all of them were made for different purposes. The nailhead and the big block Buick being built for low, effortless torque for a quiet, luxurious ride and not much else. I mean 6000 rpm with stock bottom end and you have a grenade waiting to go off, whereas the big block Chevrolet was designed for nascar to an extent lol. Makes me wonder why people wanna say which is best when these engines all come from car companies having different needs for an engine.

[@theeoddments960]

Lucore Auto and LucoreRacing plus all of the people that shout about these niche engines miss the point. A nailhead is a wrong generation engine compared to all the big blocks you have in this video. It’s older 1950’s technology whereas all the big blocks in your video were all contemporaries. Plus I’ve seen requests for ultra rare engines like side oilers and other strange one off things like they’re part of the argument at all lol. You’re not picking up a super cobra jet in a junkyard.

[@mikewardhvacrestoration7136]

I'm Rooting for the Pontiac!!!

[@pontiacman8764]

I have a built Pontiac 455 in my Firebird and you're right, it's easy to be 10 to 15 k into it before you know it, but I wouldn't swap it for nothing.

[@LucoreAuto]

It really REALLY is. Especially if you go the aluminum head route you're there in no time. But, when I pop the hood of an old classic Pontiac I want to see a light blue Poncho motor staring back at me!

[@Bucks-batshit-golf]

I got over 10K in my 455 in my 73’ formula 455

[@foreverendeavors6210]

I love the oldsmobile, I have a 70 455, nobody i know has had any luck with the tourqer intake on BB olds, seams to like a performer duel plane, or offenhauser portosonic single plane, Victor's have also had some success with solid numbers, thankyou for the review.

[@LucoreAuto]

It would honestly have been nice to have a Performer on the Olds compared to the Torker, it doesn't seem to have really done any favors for it. With the power levels and RPM levels we are running on these motors, it's hard to beat the performance and driveability of a good duel plane. Thanks for the view and comment, hope you enjoyed!

[@53slapnuts]

pontiac always growls different than other engines !!!

[@LucoreAuto]

As a Pontiac guy myself, I was VERY pleased with the sounds that thing makes and the numbers it made. Unfortunately, that Pontiac tax is REAL! Really looking forward to having it in the car and seeing how it actually performs.

[@MrDaryz1]

Yessss sirrrr Pontiac all the way I think it’s obv that I’m a Pontiac guy😂😂

[@MrPeterbilt1971]

I have an ex-brother-in-law whom him and his father ran a salvage yard. They hauling in a four door Pontiac with what looked like a plain Jane 400 small block. It had a two barrel on it. Somebody had to been building a sleeper and either their old lady or some idiot decided it was time it got towed. But it would rip them loose only at half throttle. 🔥

[@mikehunt9894]

As an oldsmobile guy, Olds always sound different then the rest.. that big bore, short stroke ftw.. lol

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mikehunt9894 It's not about the size of the motor, but the power of the stroke! ;)

[@mikewest9033]

What about the 455 Buick

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately we didn't have any customers currently building a 455 Buick BUT, we DO have a 455 Stage 1 we will be running on a chassis dyno in the next few days that should give us some numbers to compare with!

[@jimclarke1108]

Was quickest from the factory

[@williamromero4445]

Jim Clarke yes it was I had 1970 Buick stage 1 with the 455 I really miss that car it was stolen back in 1995 I never seen it again 😫

[@walliehart5975]

How about a 421Pontiac Super Duty with dual 850 cfm Rochesters. And a mid rise intake with long tube headers ? Bootleggers deluxe baby!!!

[@DeanMk1]

@@walliehart5975 There is a YT video comparing a 405 HP 421 Pontiac to a 409HP 409 Chevy. Pontiac completely murders the Chevy on the dyno.

[@one57belair]

I'm late to the party, but really good shoot out! I was really hoping for a Buick 455, but I definitely appreciate what you have done.

[@LucoreAuto]

Glad you liked it. We DID test a Buick 455 right after this however it was alresdy in a Buick GS. Should be able to find it in our stuff on here. It did... well 😀

[@218422100]

Thank you so much for this HONEST video that wasn't slanted to one side. I'm a diehard MOPAR man so I was happy to see the 451 build. I have an all stock, never restored 1974 Charger SE with a 400 4bbl in it. You gave me some pretty good ideas to think about...🤔🤔😎💯

[@LucoreAuto]

Well thank you for the comment Sir, very glad you enjoyed the video and hopefully learned a thing or two! We tried to be as honest and up front as we could be about each of the builds, we all have our favorites of course so it's hard to be completely impartial. That 451 Mopar setup is a really good package and with a decent set of aluminum heads on it...yeah we'll see not too far down the road I'm sure ;)

[@ericciszewski7107]

Here we go again, big block Pontiac, come-on now. External block dimensions the same. The 301 had 3/4" shorter deck height than the 326,350,389,400.421,428 and455.. Their is no small block/ big block, there is a small journal/large journal blocks. The heads will all bolt on, there's oiling issues on early poncho, where the top end gets oiling through block and heads,oil ports instead of the lifters and push rods. But as far as big/small blocks, I don't see it, just FYI...🤔👍

[@johnasbach577]

All iron head shootout as the Oldsmobile sits there with a set of aluminum heads on it lol.

[@LucoreAuto]

Hey there's close to Iron Headed! ;)

[@johnasbach577]

@@LucoreAuto lol, ok. Good vid though. As you know, it doesn't matter how hard you try at parity, somebody's going to complain that well, you should've done this with the Mopar, or its not fair you did this with the poncho ect, ect. I'm admittedly a big block Chevrolet guy but have respect for all of them as they all have their good points and bad ones if you are honest with yourself. The trick is to know your chosen engine family very well and know what parts combinations work well together, even if factory and it can be quite amazing how much power any if them will make for not a huge $ outlay. I put together a 0.030 over 440 for a good friend of mine for his wheelin rig, 10.68 to 1 trw pistons, Edelbrock performer heads and intake, crane gold roller rockers, comp solid flat tappet cam, factory rods with arp bolts and balanced with a factory steel crank. It will wind 6500 against his rev limiter all day long and even doesn't mind an occasional 300 hit of gas. Makes incredible power even na on pump gas and is a reliable great engine.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@johnasbach577 You are VERY correct Sir, unless we just had a spare $40,000 sitting around to build 4-5 identical big blocks across the brands you'll never get true Apples to Apples... to Apples and Apples ;) But, we tried! One of the things that made us want to put this video together for folks was to really put it all out there across a few of the major brands. We all have our loyalties but let's have an honest conversation about what they do what they can do and what they cost! The 451 Mopar I'll be honest will be a good motor for now in her '73 Charger but I think down the line with a head swap and a few more additions will become quite a monster. And with the prices Mopar folks can get GOOD aluminum heads?! Not fair! *cries the Pontiac guy*

[@johnasbach577]

@@LucoreAuto lol, yep. Very true that yes, anything can make gobs of power if you have unlimited amounts of $ to throw at it but most of us are not in that category and have to make due with what we can afford. But that's part of the fun in gaining knowledge of the parts readily available that work well together and those that will compromise your build. And really in this day and age none of us have any excuses in putting together something that is a poor build, or combination, because of so many before us who did all the hard work and research that is now at our fingertips with the click of a mouse. I think another thing that gets people in this game is the trap of unrealistic expectations of the combination that they have/can afford. As you know, every engine combination is a compromise, unfortunately lol!

[@johnasbach577]

Well, keep at it, is nice to see info from honest fair minded people with no axe to grind and as a bonus we all learn a little something 👍👍!

[@rong4189]

You did a great job of taking on what is usually a suicide mission of asking “Which is best?” lol!

[@LucoreAuto]

You speak the truth! Tried to be as fair and impartial as possible :)

[@docfischer7291]

The 451 and 511 B versions I have been building since I was 15 for my father . Idles nice but listening to it ramp up I can hear the tension it has then the fatal decrease of rpm. Those heads weren’t the issue , the springs certainly are. Stage V heads would be phenomenal but unnecessary, needing a little massaging , but yes could have suffered some . There a lot of options, knowing especially having built F.A.S.T racing engines in the past , if you slapped on a set of closed chamber heads (properly with matching springs and of which the quench area of those Icon pistons were developed for ) would bring you over 500 hp and even greater than 500lbs of torque. I would love to have that engine in my hands . I have something similar, with a TM6 manifold, closed chamber and it’s pissing all over the numbers of that 454. Not bragging , just touching base for anyone wanting to build one and display greater what that engine is capable of . My 511 version is over 700 hp.

[@LucoreAuto]

Definitely appreciate the comment and Mopar knowledge, hopefully you've watched the more recent videos on the 451 Mopar as some of these issues were sorted out. Unfortunately it was definitely hobbled in the Big Blow Wars contest!

[@jeffrykopis5468]

And the Mopar is much easier to work on and more durable than the GM stuff. Shaft rockers, dry intake, external oil pump, 2 piece water pump/housing, factory windage tray, distributor up front...

[@maxpowerta3183]

This was a great concept and I'd love to see someone do a proper 45X engine comparison test BOPC would be great to see. But frankly as soon as you put the roller cam in the chevy and the aluminum heads on the olds the validity of your test went out the window, All 4 engines should have been running the same spec cam and they should have all been running iron heads. The pontiac version of Those speedmaster heads have been shown to flow every bit as good as the edelbrocks out of the box so I assume the olds are they same.

[@randyyoung9892]

Thanks for the hard work like the shoot out and nice to see no losers! It all in what you prefer

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks for watching glad you enjoyed the video! There were no losers but some pretty interesting winners and results we think.

[@timecklund7685]

Excellent builds and comparison. Like Pontiac too but also really like the potential power/cost of the Mopar.

[@davehelmboldt6790]

Even among gear heads there seems to be some "question " on is it a big block or small block. Great video, though. Thanks for sharing.

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed! And as gear heads, isn't our favorite thing to do argue? ;)

[@Shadowvini]

Pontiac is out of every comparison because its masterpiece :)

[@LucoreAuto]

Rawr Poncho Power! :) Can't wait to get this thing back in the '70 and enjoy the difference! And then... start the '68 LeMans project! ;)

[@sxs4l245]

(Smile)

[@wilbill9]

I am that 455 Olds guy.... but that Mopar had my attention... always loved the old Mopars

[@LucoreAuto]

Hey nothing wrong with being an Olds guy! The Mopar was definitely hobbled in this test, it had by far the worst heads and the machinist didn't really understand what the issues were. Had it been able to RPM properly and not hit valve float at 4900 RPM, it should have spun easily past 5500 and would have made a good deal more HP. Unfortunately, we'll have to fix that when it's IN the car

[@maxpowerta3183]

Interesting comparison, Thanks for doing it. Having said that I take issue with one of your conclusions, As a "Pontiac guy" myself I have to say there is no way that Olds parts are cheaper and or more readily available than Pontiac parts. There were literally millions of firebirds alone built with Pontiac engines, Never mind all the Lemans/GTO's Grand prix's Ventura's etc. Because there are so many of those F body's still out there the demand for Pontiac parts is still quite high and so WAY more stuff is available than for an Oldsmobile. Off the top of my head I can name 7 different companies just making cylinder heads for the Pontiac engine, and some have multiple variants. Butler even lists 5 different models of aftermarket block's! The same absolutely cannot be said of Oldsmobile, not by a longshot. In order of popularity and parts availability it would have to go Chevy, Mopar, Pontiac, and then Olds.

[@drcornelius8275]

Yes, within seconds you know this guy isn't a Pontiac guy.... "big block"

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

Finally have a spare set of cast iron water-jacketed marine exhaust manifolds on their way for the Olds, have been searching for a pair for well over a decade now.

[@shannonshepard5047]

515 lbs of torque for the Pontiac! Awesome! And as the guy said, you can get a lot more HP and torque from the Pontiac with Edelbrock, roller lifters, rockers, RPM intake, and be prepared for tire ripping time. Believe me I know. But Pontiacs are expensive to build, believe me I know that too.

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks for the watch and cheering for team Poncho! We were definitely happy with the torque numbers it made, and making it so low in the rev range is going to be a BLAST! Well, the tires are going to hate it but we're going to love it :) As for upgrades beyond what it is... we'll see. Honestly this 455 will probably stay as is... there's a '68 LeMans 400 project coming up that will likely get a MUCH meaner motor! But that's for a future episode :)

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

i think id upgrade the rods first....

[@LucoreAuto]

@@frigglebiscuit7484 Yep factory 455 crank, forged rods and forged pistions.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@drcornelius8275 yessir!

[@jeffhartgers7284]

Especially expensive these days compared to back in the '80s LOL.

[@armygreenfj3924]

My 455 olds on my 69 442 none original motor with K heads ran like a dream. Had so much power and torq!

[@oscarwalton1188]

The 74 400 block is a better choice for a stroker the earlier block has stronger mains supports and you would make more power with the 400 heads with some minor port work 500 lb plus is easily achieved a set of trick flow or indy heads would put it in orbit stroker b engines have nearly insane power capability

[@LucoreAuto]

There's definitely power left on the table in that Mopar once it swaps over to a good set of aluminum heads it'll be a whole new monster. For now though, it will be a HUGE change over the tired old 400 in there now! But, that old tired one will likely live again some day as a 499 ;)

[@updragracer]

good test I enjoyed it . the olds surprised me a little on the top end there .

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks Mike! We for sure had some surprises testing all these things. The Olds and Pontiac coming in with VERY similar peak HP numbers was quite interesting, especially considered the Torker vs Performer

[@Loki13M]

I have to admit a lot of the info went over my head but what I did understand was quite useful. Kinda figured the Chevy would be the hands down winner but I wont lie, I was rooting for the Mopar. =) Speaking of, I had *zero* clue you could make a 499 out of a 400, Hell I had never even heard of one. Hope y'all do one someday because I would love to see what kind of power that makes and what kind of reliability it would have.

[@LucoreAuto]

Yeah being totally honest we had no idea there was so much potential in those "Junk smog" motors either. The old motor coming out of her car now will very likely come back to life with a 499 stroker kit in it... for... something. That 451 isn't done impressing yet there's a decent chance it goes back on an engine dyno for some improvements to the valve train which SHOULD allow it to RPM better

[@Loki13M]

@@LucoreAuto I caught the valve float issue you were having there, heard it's a fairly common problem with some Mopar engines but I don't know the fix for it, wish I did. I do seem to recall a 360 that had the same problem and a Hi rise intake was at least part of the solution but that was 20 some years back... Let me see if I got this right... she has a 2nd 400 that yer going to (eventually) do the 499 kit on? Or when she outgrows the 451 do the kit? As I have mentioned I'm a hack mechanic at best (give me a proper manual and im good otherwise its the Braveheart scene with the crazed Irishman: 'The good Lord says yer fooked laddie!' and tools go airborne) but if she is already planning better aluminum heads wont she have to upgrade the valve train as well? And would that not likely solve the float issue? Asking because im curious if going that route might not save a bit of cash over tiring to fix the valve float problem in the long term.

[@xozindustries7451]

We built a 400 Mopar motor, early industrial casting, kept the stock crank and rods, put the Truck Flow top end and roller cam in it and made 425hp and 450lbft torque on an engine dyno. I'm building the same 455 that you did with the 4x heads and a comp hydraulic cam, good to see that pontiac torque doesn't disappoint. I've also got a 502 Chevy with 1998 L29 Vortec heads and sequential injection efi I'm building with L21 coil near plug(LS) coils, should be a torque monster for my airstream motorhome. The last is my blown 540 with AFR 357 heads and Holley dominator efi with coil neat plug ignition also, I'm glad to see this test because not everything needs to be a high end build like my 540 to be a great engine, and not everyone wants a late hemi or LS motor in their classic car, with that kind of torque out of any of these motors they are going to be a blast with the correct gearing, good job, keep them coming, let's see what that power equates to quarter mile times.

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks for the view and response, we are definitely happy with the results we got on these things and they'll be QUITE fun once we get the rides but together! One thing that often gets lost in the hotrodding motor is how much DO you need versus can you make? Could we have built each of these to make more than 500hp? Sure, there's plenty of options and examples out there. But at what cost? And what ELSE needs upgraded to support that level of power? Before you know it the build has gone from a simple motor rebuild to an entire new car! ALL the power isn't ALWAYS the answer!

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

you only made 425hp from all that? wtf...

[@ringerson4x4]

I would have liked to see a Ford 460 in this comparison. I assume the opportunity to do this comparison just happened to come up with those particular engines being built and ready for dyno at the same time. Great video.

[@LucoreAuto]

You are pretty much spot on with this, we just happened to have multiple parallel projects moving forward at the same time with very similar builds. Unfortunate the Big Block Ford scene just isn't a popular option for hot rodding these days, at least not around us. We may still be able to eventually get our hands on one and move a build forward but... we'll see. Actually DO need to make another followup with this though to address things with the Mopar.

[@optimusprimer4392]

I think the Ford 429 would be a better candidate

[@danielroberts698]

Exactly the reason I love Mopars. Everyone had a Chevy. It’s like another Chevy nice. It’s kinda like rooting for the underdog? Nothing wrong with any of them. I actually have built them with my friends. I just don’t want the same thing as everyone else. To each his own.

[@steve6992]

I recently did a 400 block with a 4.25 stroke which made it a 512 cuin engine I use the 270 trick flow heads and a roller cam by Bullet that was around 265 duration at .050 lift, it was Dynoed at West Tech and it made 700 horsepower The stroker kit came from 440 source and it yielded 10.3 to 1 compression ratio, the dyno pull was done with 91 octane fuel

[@LucoreAuto]

That's a VERY good and powerful setup and likely only cost a tiny bit more than the 451 Mopar in this video. The 400 is a VERY impressive platform for power without getting into anything super crazy or complicated. Did you record or detail your build anywhere? Who's stroker kit did you use?

[@shannonshepard5047]

That’s Eldelbrock heads. Butler Performance is a great resource for Pontiac motors, and so is Kaufman. Love my Pontiac.

[@LucoreAuto]

Eventually this 455 MAY wear a set of heads from Butler or Kaufman.. it doesn't really NEED them but would certainly improve performance even more. Full disclosure there's a '68 LeMans waiting in the wings for a 400-461 stroker setup that will be much more a race car... you'll see in upcoming videos :)

[@midsouth2strokes185]

Really miss my 2 455 Pontiac motors. I think about em all the time. I sold my trans am and all my Pontiac stuff around 2009 and it seems like right after that the prices skyrocketed on them. Now I have a factory yellow 78 Z28 California car with a 327 someone swapped in. It run really reliable but will not shred tires from a roll like the Pontiacs.😐 live and learn I guess

[@LucoreAuto]

@@midsouth2strokes185 they definitely have gone up in value over the past few years as it becomes harder and harder to find an early generation buildable 455! Although the lack of good 455 cores has lead to some really great builds out of the 400s that are as strong if not stronger. Smaller main journal size and you can get similar displacement for not a lot of work, and off the shelf parts! Hopefully you are still enjoying your Z28, definitely a great car BUT... totally different kind of tire melter compared to the Big Ole Pontiac torque factory!

[@byronmcelfresh2380]

Don't forget the awesome CV1 heads for a Pontiac !!!

[@jacobkite5497]

the cv-1 by rolland racing as well as the ra5 heads by dci motorsports and ra5.com are badass choices as well

[@doggfriendly]

The throttle assembly on your Stuska is pretty bad ass with the square tubing and all makes it cool to watch it move through the pull

[@BigDaddy-fx4nx]

So basically what this proves is that if you use the right parts for what you need for your build parameters you will make a lot of usable power no matter what engine you choose. The better it breathes the more power you make, it's all about where you need the power, what RPM range. I think a good Mopar 440 will be better than an Olds or Pontiac and cheaper to build per HP.

[@LucoreAuto]

There are definitely some interesting lessons to learn here, at least we think so. A 440 is definitely a capable platform, and a lot of the same pieces we used on this motor would be similar to what that would be using. Two of the big benefits for us doing this with a 400 versus a 440 are the lack of many people actually SHOWING this kind of build, and the reduced rotating mass SHOULD let it rev further and faster than a similar displacement 440.

[@ihavea65]

Whats better I think depends on what it's going in to. Any of these engines can be built enough to fry the tires on the street. If you have a 2 door muscle car and you can't afford to adequately build the stock engine, sell it to someone who can. For 40 years I've been watching people putting Chevy 350's or other blocks into Pontiacs because it's cheaper, and it takes a little knowledge to build a stock Pontiac correctly. But now we have Butlers and others and many aftermarket parts so there is no excuse now :)

[@johnfrakes4746]

I had 1971 Pontiac Bonneville, with the 455. Awesome engine with amazing performance even at high mileage. Only downside was gas mileage.

[@LucoreAuto]

Well when fuel was only a few dimes per gallon it wasn't such a big deal, now... we try to measure in smiles per gallon instead ;)

[@johnringel9892]

Good video. I appreciate your attempt at a true apples to apples comparison. The horsepower, and torque numbers come in pretty much where I expected. I was certain the Pontiac would edge out the competition in Torque. No surprise the Chevy had peak horsepower. The flow capabilities of the big block Chevy heads are in another world, in comparison to the other engines. The Pontiac induction system was very well suited to the engine. I feel the Oldsmobile would have benefited from a dual plane intake. To be honest a factory cast iron intake ( non EGR ) is hard to beat on a Oldsmobile. I was disappointed in the Mopar. First I would like to have seen you test a stock stroke 440. You did the Mopar no favors with those cylinder heads. Better ( 915. or 906 ) heads would have yielded slightly better results. The real issue was the valve float. I was expecting 440 H P , and 495 torque from the Mopar. Again good video, reminds people that on the street Torque is king

[@LucoreAuto]

Thank you for the view and well thought out comment! Your thinking is definitely in line with ours, and quite honestly WE would love to see the Olds run on a different intake as well to see what difference it would make. Unfortunately, engine building and dyno time costs money! With the Mopar unfortunately it was a case of work with what we've got. There's NO doubt if we had a slightly better set of iron heads and got rid of the valve float ... with the extra breath and RPM it very likely would have been in at least 2nd place for horsepower. The question asked in the video is a serious one though. Would you? Would you spend $300 on a set of 906 heads, $1000-1200 having them built, and run them? Or spend essentially the same money for a GOOD set of aluminum heads that are in every way superior?

[@johnringel9892]

@@LucoreAuto Thank you for your response. I completely understand, the constraints of time, and money. I also agree, on the big block Mopar. Unless you are doing a real " low budget " build, or a " correct " restoration. There is really no reason to not spring for aftermarket aluminum heads. They are superior in every way. The Oldsmobile, and Pontiac aluminum heads are a improvement over stock, but not a huge difference in flow, big difference in weight.There is soooo much that can be done with the Pontiac heads. Your test just scratched the surface. The main benefit of aluminum heads on the big block Chevrolet over factory big valve, rectangular port cylinder heads IS WEIGHT ! Bust a gut lifting those stock hunks of iron. Got a little long winded. Thanks

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

@@johnringel9892 i bowl ported my big block mopar motorhome heads, put new valves in, and had a valve job done for far less than 1k. i cant justify aluminum head prices, especially assembled ones that come with crap springs and full of metal.

[@johnringel9892]

@@frigglebiscuit7484 I recall, I did say something about using iron heads on a budget build. I am well acquainted with the fact that there are no " use them right out of the box " aluminum heads. My experience is they all need to be disassembled, and cleaned. Check the cave guides, maybe clean up the valve seating. Most you will want to invest in quality valve spring, locks, and retainers. Items you were going to replace anyway on the stock heads. With all of that said. When you look at all that you gain. I still maintain it makes sense to invest in aftermarket aluminum heads. That's my 2 cents. Thanks for your response

[@LucoreAuto]

@@johnringel9892 there's a CHANCE we may pull the Poncho heads at some point and have them ported then run it again, just to see the TRUE difference in power compared to all the urban legends. We'll see. The Mopar... we'll never spend another dime on those things! For the $1300 we spent in fully rebuilding them, you can basically buy a set of good aluminums have them checked and replace the junk parts ... and only be a st a LITTLE more money for a FAR better head!

[@zorpit]

Gotta love the Olds puking oil out of the valve cover. Might wanna do a leakdown.

[@LucoreAuto]

SOMEONE way over filled the oil capacity unfortunately! Compression and leakdown test WAS done off camera though just to make sure :)

[@danielrobey1759]

Actually that is a very common thing for Oldsmobiles, the best way to deal with it is oil restricted push rods. The oil return passages are notoriously small on olds heads and that was simply the valve cover filling up with oil.

[@jrobb7539]

Is it just me or does the pontiac 455 look twice as big as the olds 455❓ great video btw ✌️

[@LucoreAuto]

It definitely looks big with the blue paint on everything, and the perspective because it's closer to the camera. OR it's cause Pontiacs are big awesome torque monsters! ;)

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

@@LucoreAuto torque monster is definitely the game..even back in the smogged and bogged big GM land yacts in about 74/75 even though they didn't go fast off the line boy did they build up torque when you got on them it took him awhile but they would just keep on moving... I had a big old lead sled Granville was like that.. that 455 4 Barrel when you put your foot into it it took a while but if you held your foot into it although it was smogged and bogged you could feel that torque. would just pretty much be ready to blast off into Infinity. the Olds are the same way that 455 olds that powered those 98 regency, and delta 88 royales big boats people don't realize when gm it built what I call the stripes mobile.. that GM RV to rival Winnebago all utility vehicle they went with the Olds motor just because of the torque

[@muffdiver69x]

it's all in the paint......magic paint. ;)

[@kcav5374]

I was a machinist @ Total Automotive Engineering in Detroit Mi. from 1994 until 2002 and we had an employee racing a 500+ in 440 running iron heads and he dyno'd over 600 hp. And a 400 Pontiac we did for a fellow employee, we got 560 lbs/ft off torque and 400 hp. (at only 2800 rpm it made 463 lbs ft of torque!)

[@shawnriddle3018]

Have you seen a raised block from a Chrysler 440 Magnum? Can you see how much stronger the block is. GM engines blocks stop above the rotating assembly. Chryslers block with nickle surrounds the rotating assembly. Stronger bottom end. The other BBC is the King Hemi which adds to that with cross bolt main caps.

[@LucoreAuto]

We kicked around doing a 440 build for a little bit the problem is, they are pretty common in the performance Mopar world. Very easy to make really serious power out of and because of the really tall desk design you can get HUGE cubic inches out of them. With this competition we wanted to keep all the displacements as similar as possible.

[@440capnhook]

if you have valve float at 5k you got somthing really wrong with your spring setup.

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately the springs are being overpowered, definitely not an ideal situation. There's also an issue that the cheap SBI valves that were used in the rebuild are HEAVY compared to what would ideally be in there. Knowing the cast iron heads will only be on this motor for a reasonably short time as she gets used to the new setup and power levels, it just wasn't worth the money and frustration to keep fighting it.

[@jessemilstead810]

Here’s something most of y’all probably won’t believe. My mustang 2 has a high compression 2.8 lima 4 banger. Pumps out 280-300hp. Motor was originally a 2.5 for my families 150mph 2.5mod hydroplane. But once said class basically went away some years ago. Now. Motor sat in my barn until I came home from florida and found it was still there and the parents had gotten a 78 mustang 2 with a 2.3 lima. Took her out and replaced it with the all aluminum high compression motor!

[@antilaw9911]

The Mopar 452 heads don't have the raises floor or hump before the intake valve. Like the 906 or closed chamber 915

[@brucenaylor2043]

Love that pontiac sound!!!!!!!

[@LucoreAuto]

It certainly sounds good, and I can't WAIT to get it back in the '70 LeMans to hear it rumbling through some pipes! Non-Car people just don't get it, sound is IMPORTANT!

[@brucenaylor2043]

@@LucoreAuto I have a 72 Catalina convertible and I love it.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@brucenaylor2043 Ohhhh that's a WHOLE lot of Sexy Pontiac! With some good rumble what a great summer cruising car!

[@GalaxieMarauder]

MoPar for the win. You ll never get above 5000rpms in a street Charger to worry about valve float. That 0-60 launch is enough to make it worth it. Especially since RB motors arent that expensive to fiddle with

[@LucoreAuto]

It'll definitely a beast of a motor in her Charger for sure. It was just extremely frustrating given the powerband was still climbing when the valve float came in. So the true peak power of the Mopar WOULD be higher, likely at above the Pontiac and Olds. The lighter rotating assembly versus a 440 should be it.. fun also ;)

[@timsharpe3498]

Big thumbs up. I really liked this BUT I hate the fact that you compared a 454 with High Performance heads to a Pontiac with poor flowing smog heads. Some BBC fanboys already have huge heads that don't need to get puffed up more by lopsided comparisons. The last BBC guy I raced talked all kinds of smack about my 400 Pontiac until I showed up to race him. He had more modifications than I had and better heads and he still refused to race me heads up without using his Nitrous. He still lost even with a 150 shot against my NA.

[@LucoreAuto]

Well thanks for the view, the comment, and the thumbs up! Unfortunately this was a situation of "run what ya brung" as we had this 454 already going through a mild rebuild and figured it would be useful data. With that in mind, we still think the Poncho out punched the Chevy when you see what it did. Given the heads on the Chevy were considerably superior AND it had a roller setup... imagine what the Pontiac would do with those heads worked a little, and a full roller setup. Very likely would have not only out torqued the Chevy but out HP'd it as well. At least, that's our opinion :)

[@timsharpe3498]

@@LucoreAuto, I totally understand. Let the BBC fanboys keep their superiority complex. I love to see them pay up every time they underestimate a Pontiac.

[@salninethousand2496]

For a mild big block, I'd go Buick - dat thin wall casting is light, light, light. AL heads, AL intake, roller cam and you have a mild big block that can't be beat in terms of size+weight+power.

[@dinadaughtry8993]

That 400 Mopar needs 906 casting # heads and a custom cams from Howard's cams and long tube headers

[@CJColvin]

There's also the Ford 460 as well.

[@LucoreAuto]

For sure and we would love to have included one, unfortunately no one really does hot rod Big Block Fords around here. These were all motors for projects we had so could use them for the video, some day we hope to include a BBF as well!

[@CJColvin]

@@LucoreAuto Awesome brother.

[@timothyheller2580]

Very nice 455 I have a 400 pontiac motor with number 62 heads runs great

[@bobgipson9330]

If that LS6 is intact and unchanged, it has 11 to 1 compression. Kind of apples to oranges compairing an 11 to 1 roller motor to the other street motors

[@LucoreAuto]

We mention in the video that it had been lowered previously to the same compression levels as the others. It DOES have a roller cam though which certainly helps it make power in the higher RPMs better.

[@abrammitchener131]

Like the comparison but I like how they used a stroke 400 BB Mopar (451) and not a 440

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately this is kind of a situation of use what we could, we just happened to have builds going with all 4 of these motors and felt it would be an interesting comparison. Our KZbin revenue doesn't QUITE cover the costs of building big blocks just for video purposes ;)

[@abrammitchener131]

I totally get that and you guys making these videos is awesome the 400 bbm doesn't really get a whole lot of love but they can make 440 type of power with some know-how and money

[@jamesrogers5783]

i would have liked to seen a open chamber head 454 with the .2.19/1.77" valves compared. the L6 was quite the mill in the day and they ain't in every bodys garage, waiting for a re-boot.

[@LucoreAuto]

They definitely aren't what you would find in a typical "normal" rebuild of a 454, completely agree with you there. Given this started out life as a hot rod crate motor it's not that surprising it did so well. Those damn high flowing Chevy heads!! ;) With all the interest in this video honestly we are already hunting for Part 2 motors

[@johndillinger8482]

i would go with a custom piston instead of those TRW concrete blocks. there are 500 plus cubic inch packages available for Olds Pontiac & Buick Rocket Racing has a new 455 Olds block that can go 600 CI

[@LucoreAuto]

The Pistons in the Olds were chosen because they were, well FREE. The point of this comparison wasn't "how much power can we squeeze out", it was more of a "what do the stock-ish parts really make". There were a TON of things we could have done differently for all 4 motors to make lots more power... but there are lots of KZbin videos out there showing that. The aftermarket block conversation opens up a WHOLE different world. Rocket Racing sells an aftermarket "Olds 455" block that goes to 600CI? Sure, I guess. They're also $4,995.00 for the BLOCK! Butler Performance also sells an aftermarket "Pontiac 455" block with all sorts of sizing options but they are THOUSANDS of dollars, well outside the range of what most people need/want for a street car.

[@LucoreAuto]

@Dave Micolichek will certainly agree with you when going north of the 600+ mark. On old iron blocks you're just asking for trouble and some seriously expensive parts getting damaged when one of those blocks let go. When we were building the 455 Poncho there was a 400 in there as well that had split straight down the cam tunnel. It was just a crack at that point but a 8 inch long crack down the center of your block is NOT good!

[@LucoreAuto]

@Dave Micolichek the later generation 400s had considerably weaker blocks, less material used means less weight and less cost. Unfortunately also means much less likely to survive abuse north of 450-500+

[@LucoreAuto]

@Dave Micolichek that particular motor had lived a very hard life under the hood of a mean GTO that also occasionally ran little spray. So it was put to the test for sure :)

[@armyjeep4]

My machine shop guy says all Pontiac blocks are the same..I told him thats awesome,here is my 301,make a 455 out of it,chop chop

[@LucoreAuto]

Lol! That's something you'll hear often, as you can see from so many Poncho people in the comments :) Curious, what was he response?

[@ramairgto72]

PMD

[@LucoreAuto]

Which color of blue do you bleed? ;)

[@briansd2772]

@@LucoreAuto "Repainted to pass EPA scrutiny SD-455 Dark Blue" for me.

[@shadetreetrades.jackofall2188]

The 440 is the best big block ever. Indy parts and run every weekend at 1000hp level with no breakage. Over 200 runs no issues. It’s just a masterpiece of internal geometry/. Second the BB Chevy is awesome as well. Mainly for the ease of parts and price.

[@LucoreAuto]

Gotta say those damn RB motors have some SERIOUS potential that many people outside the Mopar community just really don't understand. This B series with RB crank and rods can be quite a monster as well and it's really starting to wake up with the recent upgrades. Should be a heck of a streetable motor now!

[@danielbeiersr3642]

Where the Ford 428cj, 427so,Boss 429, 835 Ford 429/460

[@LucoreAuto]

Oddly, BBF builds aren't very popular around here. Would love to do a 460 to compare but didn't have any customers or projects calling for one. However we'll keep our eyes out for one and hopefully do a Part 2 of this down the line...?

[@mark-wn5ek]

In the junk yard

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mark-wn5ek surprisingly hard to find decent intact ones in the yards around here! :(

[@mark-wn5ek]

@@LucoreAuto it was just an open cheap shot I couldn't ignore. .hehe! Yeah bring it on, like to see what the Ford can do.

[@coreyspencer8610]

Where is that rat 427 Chevy at

[@bobhenry6159]

Should have gone with the Buick nickel-iron 455 block (70-76). It was stronger and 176 lbs lighter. Back in the day, vet owners were swapping out their 454 blocks because they topped out at around 500 FP, while the Buick 455 block could easily handle 700 FP. I don't think the Olds block was nickel-Iron, but maybe I'm wrong.

[@karlsracing8422]

Biggest bore of all mopar big blocks bigger than a 440.

[@LucoreAuto]

Being 100% honest, never knew the potential of these ole worthless blocks. With all the hype the other Mopar powerplants get, what a hidden gem of hotrodding. There will definitely be another build coming down the line. There IS a '73 400 in the car now, so when it comes out for this 451 to go in... we'll have a factory fresh 400 to play with ;)

[@Torquemonster440]

@@LucoreAuto Ohh man, a 512ci 400 paired with the new Trick Flow 270 heads would be an absolute beast!! You're at about $2200 for the stroker kit and about the same for the heads. I'm a mopar guy and that is my dream engine combo. Paired with the right cam you're hitting 700 hp easy.The 400 B block is about 50lbs lighter than the tall deck RB block. Also, those B blocks utilize a much more robust main webbing architecture vs the RB. The B block is also easier to shoehorn into a small A body vs an RB being that it utilizes a shorter deck. A stroker B block build is big WIN all the way around in my opinion. Great vid by the way ! 🍻

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

@@LucoreAuto ive got a stock compression, stock stroke '73 400 in my 70 dart. its got bowl worked motorhome heads, a 268/276 lunati voodoo cam, weiand action plus dual plane intake, 750 street demon, and tri y headers. for a stock compression "slug", holy mother of god does it rev and turn up. stock rockers and pushrods too LOL.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@Torquemonster440 Oh a BIIIG B is definitely in the works down the line BUT... the problem with making really monster numbers is they break all the other things attached to them! The TCI Streetfighter in there now should be fine with the 451, and the rear end will soon get a BIG upgrade so it can handle all the abuse we will likely throw at it. Nothing like building a monster of a motor.. then spending another $7,000 to support it ;)

[@gilbertw5370]

Great Information. Try telling a “Big Block Pontiac Guy” that’s not a big block;)

[@RENEGADEX800]

Big block Pontiac? Really? You should know better!

[@mattrodgers4878]

I had the same thought.

[@LucoreAuto]

Did I actually say that in the video? If so WHOOPS! :( As a Poncho guy I don't often make that slip of the tongue. If so I apologize to the Poncho nation! For the non Pontiac people out there Don's point is there are no small and big block Pontiacs, just Pontiac blocks. It's a true Pontiac motorheads biggest annoyance ;) And just to say personally, there was NO way I would let these 3 in the video without showing off what this big old Pontiac did ;)

[@LucoreAuto]

@@mattrodgers4878 I hope I didn't actually say that in the video or I deserve a whuppin out behind the teepee! ;) I know, I know, there's no such thing as a "Small block or Big Block Pontiac" ;)

[@mstover2809]

Consider small journal vs big journal for the 421, 428, and 455.

[@RENEGADEX800]

@@mstover2809 that doesn't change the dimensions of the block!

[@bikinicarwash6320]

I have no idea about most of the stuff you are talking about BUT pretty colors and they all sound GREAT!

[@LucoreAuto]

Definitely have a range of colors for all flavors :) The Blue and Gold are as they should be, the Purple.. well whatever the lady want she gets ;)

[@steveschulz7824]

Pontiac never built a big block. All Pontiac motors are based on the same basic block size. Externally they all have the same dimensions.

[@LucoreAuto]

Yes yes yes as we Poncho people always point out :) But if we want to play with others we have to pick a league and the Big Blocks are the only comparable other guys out there.

[@82mrbush]

Does that mean any Pontic motor will fit in any Pontic? I got a 86 Bonneville and want the biggest Pontiac motor

[@LucoreAuto]

@@82mrbush roughly speaking yes. If it came with a Pontiac in it, a Pontiac will fit in it. Until you get to the time when they were running Olds or Chevy motors then all bets are off.

[@82mrbush]

@@LucoreAuto thanks bro. I want a 400 in my Bonneville. Didn’t know if it’ll fit because it’s only a 305 in it now. I heard all Pontiac motors are blue is that true? If so why my motor not blue? Think it was swapped out before?

[@LucoreAuto]

@@82mrbush unfortunately for you that was past the days of Pontiac V8s so yours is Chevy powered. Essentially you've got a small block chevy. There are definitely ways to swap into an old school Poncho motor but for the time money and energy, you would be way further in the hole than most rational people would want to be ;)

[@jcnpresser]

I wonder if the olds would make more power if it had stock heads on it. I seen a guy flow some sbf speed master heads and they were just horrible, til he worked them over pretty good. Just wonder if those heads recorded the same poor valve job and bowl work as the sbf heads he did? Heck I saw were he flowed some flowtek ls heads and they flowed worse than any factory ls head til he worked them over. Just goes to show you get what you pay for some times I guess. They’re all pretty much the same size air pump, just depends on which one can more air the best. I still really like the paint job on that mopar though! That thing looks sexy, with that distributor looking out the front!

[@relickeep]

Yeah, but what about mpg? Which sucks the most gas?

[@LucoreAuto]

Ha! Now THAT will be an interesting test! We'll have to get back to you on that ;)

[@ryotaryuu]

i'd love to see another comparison of all of them with good heads to see the difference.

[@LucoreAuto]

The next test you'll see is what they do on the chassis dyno once they are all in their vehicles. The Mopar will definitely get a good set of aluminum heads.. not sure about the others. We'll see!

[@michelflesner531]

I have crossed to the dark side and am now a mopar fan.

[@LucoreAuto]

It's something that's growing on all of us, especially "junk" smog Era big block. We love em all, but there's some surprising appreciation growing for the Mopar... they also aren't terribly expensive to build

[@davidbreitwieser3591]

At 5:30 the building just sounds angry as all hell. Ever seen a building do an 11 second quarter mile? 😂

[@vannjunkin8041]

Buick, Olds, Pontiac.. all day errday

[@LucoreAuto]

We like your style! ;)

[@David-yy7lb]

I guess the Ford 460 would have beat them all that's why it wasn't included

[@LucoreAuto]

We need to find someone wanting to build and RUN a 460 Ford then we'll definitely include it! Unfortunately, not a real popular motor to build up in Central Ohio

[@strick189]

I would've like to have seen the BBF 460 to. I never really understood why Fords tend to be a bit more expensive than GM.

[@jimclarke1108]

Ford 429 was quicker "429 CJ"

[@victorvondoom2386]

hahahahahahaha... no reason to try. 460 is a truck engine or RV

[@rolandgutierrez813]

curious why you didnt add Ford to the big block mix ?

[@LucoreAuto]

It certainly wasn't intentional, we simply didn't have a single customer over this time period wanting to build a big block Ford for their project. For some reason, at least in our area, BBF powerplants just aren't something people really go for. We HAVE discussed picking one up just to build for a future episode, then maybe find a vehicle to stick it in.

[@brycewalat5321]

To really round it out, all you need are a Ford 460, Buick 455, and Cadillac 472-500

[@LucoreAuto]

We have a Buick 455 we are running on this coming Thursday, that will be in a video soon to come. We are now actively hunting a Ford 460 since so many people asked for it and eyeballing a possible video of 500 CI motors for a future episode ;)

[@LucoreAuto]

Buick 455 video about to go live in an hour, be sure to check it out and give us your feedback!

[@skylarreid1284]

Holy shit that 454 sounded amazing

[@LucoreAuto]

There's definitely a whole lot of sexy America sounds with these 4! ;)

[@77chevy4x4]

Well from the 70s childhood stories of street wars . Old mans “hell cat” of 71 was that 451 6 pack four speed built by the best AT grand Spaulding dodge. It’s only headaches 427 vette. And damn 440 cornettes… damn b @&! can hook on anything….lol big poncho fan here . But I’m all 454 . Dyno is play time . Chicago to the Wisconsin border. Boat run … straight boat run . 400 Pontiac did it fine . Can you imagine breathing… !? On a mark IV!?

[@mark_osborne]

Really enjoyed this. The one thing I might add, the Big Block Olds will likely outlast them all, although the Chrysler would give it a good run in the longevity department. Just my opinion after nearly 50 years of building engines

[@LucoreAuto]

Glad you enjoyed it, appreciate you dropping by and commenting! It will be interesting to see how all these motors fair over the years, they will actually be getting a good deal of mileage not sitting around relaxing in a garage like many classic car builds do. We'll see about doing an update down the road ;) The Mopar is going to have a pretty drastic change in the not too distant future though because her Charger is going to be seeing a good deal of track use so... may "need" a bit more power and rev range ;)

[@corporalclegg914]

29:59 - the only problem I run into with Pontiac motors is the intense moaning I hear from the cars that they’re installed in. they moan loud & often. some are screamers…I have to close the shop doors & crank the tunes, so I’m not bombarded with those that wanna come in & make those noises themselves. I just don’t have that much jam.

[@pauleanes1389]

My 451 Chrysler with a good set of heads in the right intake and carburetor made over 700 horse

[@MsKatjie]

Why no flat tappit solids? Yes adjustable rockers but hell, free power as i see it!

[@LucoreAuto]

Really, because they just aren't daily driver friendly. All these motors are going in driveable muscle cars that will do commuter duties with occasional trips down the strip. Absolutely could have freed up some power going solid or roller setups BUT, tried to keep them more old school true to form.

[@faustthehammer8706]

The heads and intakes will swap with just a few mods cam berings are same mains are not

[@justintharp5652]

And what was the cfm on the demon carb you used?

[@BobbyOfEarth]

Perhaps physics in your location is different then here in Calif. but even with Pontiacs anemic condition (215 cc heads), it still made 515 lb ft. which ..despite the inaccurate commentary to the contrary, the Pontiac made more torque than the other engines. Having a roller valve train and bowl blending, I was very disappointed in the Chevy numbers. Sad.

[@LucoreAuto]

Sorry to hear you didn't like the video, but thanks for the view and comment at least! As for the inaccuracy, where did we say the Pontiac DIDN'T out perform the others on torque? Maybe you heard something none of the others did? On the subject of the Chevy, why would you consider those numbers sad?

[@jamescutler8055]

NIce, especially when you consider the Pontiac isn't a Big Block. It is just a Pontiac 350 bored and stroked by Pontiac. Crank Journal and deck height biggest difference between 326, 350, 400, 426, 455 Pontiacs.

[@mikee2923]

All Pontiac V8s had the same deck height from the 287 all the way up to the 455. The 326, 350, 389 and 400 all shared the same 3.75” stroke and they all had 3” main bearings. The 421, 428 and 455 all had 3.25” main bearings. The only short deck engines were the last 2 Pontiac V8s made the 265 and 301.

[@byronmcelfresh2380]

Check out that beautiful GMC in the background, 56,57?

[@LucoreAuto]

Figured that would be a pretty good background for the video, glad someone noticed it! ;) That's a '53 Chevy truck we are buttoning up after a full Code 504 Frame Swap. There's also a Dodge Coronet in the background of the 2nd shot, though that's probably not what you're looking at ;)

[@Minong_Manitou_Mishepeshu]

Pontiac "WIDE Block", 🐐 riders know. 😉

[@LucoreAuto]

Lol yea yea yeah ;)

[@karlx-1]

Put a 545 stroked Ford 460 and let it eat the competition at the same price point as the others.

[@LucoreAuto]

We've had a lot of people bring up the idea of doing a BIG big block video with some 500+ inchers. Oddly big block ford builds just aren't really a thing around Central Ohio for some reason. We are definitely tempted though, if we can find someone wanting to do a build we'll will for SURE film it to share!

[@maynardreed4036]

Tell me how you 9.5to1 compression with 6x8 heads. My 455 thats .040 over with 6x8 heads has 8.5 to 1. compression.

[@dallaswiens126]

9.8 deck height bbc goes to 500 ci cheap and easy, who doesn't put a 496 stoker kit in and you can always bore it a little more to get to and over 500 ci. But overall I enjoyed the video

[@LucoreAuto]

Thanks for the watch and glad you enjoyed it! Your point is very much on point, EVERYONE knows and goes for the big displacement setups on the BBCs and it's well known. Most people, outside the true Mopar folks know you can take a 400 to a 499 with a simple drop in stroker kit. Trying to shine a little light ;)

[@andy347495]

@@LucoreAuto on the video you said you cant increase the cubes on a BBC to 500 without using a aftermarket tall deck. Dallas is saying that is not true, Which is correct.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@andy347495 his is certainly correct I apologize for the confusion. What I was trying to illustrate was that everyone KNOWS the BBC has the potential for big cubes but these B series Mopar motors... not many people have a clue what their potential is.

[@davy1458]

If I could see any engine vs engine competition.....id love to see a naturally aspirated LS vs sb2 shootout with a few rules....no more than 410 cubic inches...no compression ratio higher than 11.5....... I'd sure like to see what the LS could bring to the table against the sb2.

[@LucoreAuto]

SB2!? Now you're talking some true engine porn stuff! ;) Problem you will run into SB2 stuff, very few people build them versus the cost of building something off an LS and even fewer people put them in road cars. But they are definitely an interesting exciting powerplant!

[@davy1458]

@@LucoreAuto ....yeah I know the sb2 is kinda exotic and extremely expensive ....i don't know if you could build both motors with a limit on the amount of money that can be spent on the build but man it sure would be a cool comparison.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@davy1458 the money spent on the SB2 would leave money to put some solid gold parts on the LS. Those suckers are crazy expensive, but no doubt awesome motors. Have seen a few built and run on this same dyno, very VERY capable high revving angry monsters

[@davy1458]

@@LucoreAuto yes I've seen several run on the dyno and at the drag strip....my buddy's dad used to build very small cubic inch sb2 for someone ....dont know what kinda vehicle it was used in but they where like 292ci or something weird like that and would turn like 11000rpm....i think I might have even seen one go all the way up to around 13000rpm but that was like 2005 so don't take that as gospel truth because I maybe mistaken and I'm not wanting to look like I'm full of shit....my buddies day used to do some pretty crazy small block builds....he used to build these crazy 331ci small block chevyss were he would take a brand new bowtie block and cut out or line hone the cam tunnel out so that he could insert a tube that would install roller cam bearings in and oil fittings and larger cam core....then enlarge the lifter bores and install bushings in them to run a Chrysler size lifter....the tube in the cam tunnel would require the distributor hole blocked off and moved to the front were it was driven of the belt drive by a tiny belt and gear and used a magnetic timing trigger on the balancer.....but the heads was the crazy part he would use factory 041 heads and machine off all the rocker stud bosses and convert it to a shaft mounted rocker assembly.....then fill the exhaust ports with brass or something that looked like brass and then regrind the exhaust port on a different degree which would require mounting plate for headers that had a different bolt pattern than regular headers and mill the heads down so far that intake would have to be milled or have spacers machined to make it fit....it was some pretty wild stuff....my buddies dad's name who built this stuff was Mike keown but he passed away a couple years ago....i got to see alot of cool things and he would always help me or teach me stuff when I was doing my own motors.he was a heck of a guy..i wish I knew all that he knew about building Motors.

[@theoriginalmungaman]

The Olds has aluminum heads?

[@LucoreAuto]

It does, but they are basic out of the box aluminum heads. Unfortunately it would have cost more to buy and recondition a set of iron heads for it. The stats on the aluminum ones are VERY close to a "good" Olds head though

[@williambeglen4771]

455 olds/cadillac is cool. I really liked the 350 rocket.

[@LucoreAuto]

Unfortunately no Cadi in this test but with so many people asking for one, there's a good chance we may have to track down a 500CI Cadi and maybe start a 500 inch war?

[@davidcollis4758]

@@LucoreAuto Don't forget 425 and 472 if you can't find a 500. About 10 years ago I could have got you a 500. The guy shut down and I think the engines went for scrap. Thanks and take care.

[@LucoreAuto]

@@davidcollis4758 with so many people asking about the BIG displacement builds we've done some hunting here and there, problem being the budget. Building motors just for a couple KZbin views doesn't make a lot of business sense ;) But... we ARE actively hunting a few things for future episodes

[@davidcollis4758]

@@LucoreAuto I understand. I was just suggesting one of these engines be included in the line up for a possible future video.

[@twinv63]

Were the Chevy heads round, oval or rectangular intake port hears?

[@michaelparadisis4076]

Chevy 454 is the best......by far.

[@LucoreAuto]

There's a reason BBC and SBC ruled the hotrod motor world for 5 decades! :) It certainly wins in most categories but NOT all! ;)

[@LucoreAuto]

@living in a desert you just can't deny the power dependability and customization options for a 454 Chevy. Pulling rig? Sure. Drag motor? Sure. Daily driver? No problem. Cammed out show queen? Absolutely!

[@jimkillen1065]

I not a mopar fan but I built one a 440 many years ago and I will comment on it . First I was not impressed with the rockers and I used shaft rockers that I had the brass bushing installed . The motor had forged flat top pistons and steel crank. SPS rod bolts installed with recon rods . . Road runner cam . Ran ok but the deal is the cylinders head and not much . The 440 Need aluminum heads like the Max wedge had something along the line that Indy sells . The Aluminum will allow you to run more compression and I think a tad more timing . I not a expert on mopar The 500 cu mopar with the max wedge would move the heavy car lol

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

so you shit talk something that you built for the first time and know nothing about? great....what rockers are you talking about? brass bushings? WHY? your first mistake was the 440 magnum cam...old tech garbage. second was running stock heads with the horrible bowls.

[@LucoreAuto]

First off thanks for the view, hope you enjoyed the video! As we say in this, it was our first time also building something like this and there were certainly some surprises and learning points along the way. The potential of this 451 is to be honest AWESOME, unfortunately we capped it with a set of pretty terrible iron heads but we HAD to do that in order to make this video happen. For the money we spent getting those heads machined and rebuilt with all factory style stuff we would have been able to pick up a MUCH better set of aluminum heads that would have REALLY woken this thing up. That WILL happen down the line, but for now... it's monster enough for some fun in her '73 Charger ;)

[@LucoreAuto]

Isn't shit talking the #1 hobby of all gear heads? Who does it best? Who can do it faster, for cheaper, and for longer? ;) Honestly there was a lot we learned ourselves in building this Mopar and now that we have done so there is NO way we would ever build another one with the factory cast iron heads. For the price and headache, the extra weight savings and heat dissipation, extra compression you can safely run... why would you even bother? And yes agreed on the cam shaft piece, the knowledge we are building modern camshafts with compared to the old stuff is a HUGE difference!

[@cjmdlln2471]

The strongest one should be the 455 Buick if you had one

[@LucoreAuto]

We actually DID test a 455 Buick right after this on a chassis dyno, the video came out right after this was published if you are interested in it!

[@timmotel5804]

excellent

[@LucoreAuto]

Ty Sir!

[@leroyjful]

What about the 455 c.i. Buick?? It had more H.P. than the Olds...

[@leadfoot1879]

Why would they use "motorhome" heads on the 451? 346 or 452 heads are easily sourced. Of course the 906 would be better.

[@LucoreAuto]

This was a "run what ya brung" kind of situation on the Mopar and as it turns out the heads weren't what was limiting it, not really. Just an improper mismatch of parts. If you're interested there are several recent follow up videos with it.

[@leadfoot1879]

@@LucoreAuto I'll check it out. Was just going by what i saw/heard in the video. 👍

[@johnsmith-qz4bv]

great video alot of infomation ...are you going to build a gen3 hemi ..?..all the motors you talked about are all great motors..

[@LucoreAuto]

I'll be honest the new gen Hemi stuff isn't much of a part of our business. And realistically the way you build power in most modern Hemi powerplants is kind if the same plan with LS power. Minor upgrades to the valve train and maybe ring gap, then add boost and fuel! If the opportunity presents itself though... ;)

[@mikestufano4961]

i have an olds im building because it came in the pontiac i bought and it runs well.I did get a set of #7 cast iron heads and have those worked with 2.07 big block chevy valves , i didn't go with the edlbrock heads Soley because of the cost!!!! the 1000+$ price you showed is PER HEAD! that's over 2 g"S for a factory over the counter aluminum head. so the olds stuff is a lot more expensive and less available than the chevy. and what are the chambers on the edlbrock heads for the olds? 80 sommethuing cc? and what are my number 7 head chambers at (before i had them cut)?70cc? so i had them cut, i imiter at 5had them ported, i had big valves put in and big springs All for less than half the cost of the expensive edlbrocks. im sure with this work to the edlebrocks they will easily out oerform my cast irons. but you will be into them for over 3G"s so my heads are stock heavy but for 1100$ i am uuder the cost of one edlebrock head amd im over 100 hp increaswe over stock with the heads and a cam over my number 4 heads. and you stated the olds didnt get much from the aluminum heads that were put on, im glad i stayed with ny cast iron heads!!! awsome video! im glad you still have it up. And i just saw the uncle Bob video on the updated 451 stroker chrysler heads!! you had a feeling it was being choked with the heads, and you saved it for the last.She runs out to 6k now by golly! id set the rev limiter at 5-5500 and shell live forever, i just subscribed and like your channel amd content a lot. its a lot of work on your end, ill hit the likke button as much as i can an see if i can swing some merch also to say thank you. your viudeos are a big help to us at home buiulders that cant afford to have hot rods built for us. i do know some olds stuff tho. the #7A heads were inductioned hardned around the exhaust seat and that was gone on the first valve job so otherwise after that the same as the #7's...I see th301 mentioned! how about the 403's ?? The 403 was a good motor for cars that had a tow option and needed the tourqe. with th455 gone sadly you got a 403 when you checked the tow optiom . Arent the 403 pistons 4.350" diiameter? the biggest GM made fir passenger cars rite? if you can find a 403 olds without the windowed block youll have a winner there

[@rsvette99]

If you made the mopar 500ci then you have taken it out of the same catagory as the others.

[@LucoreAuto]

That's one of the reasons we left this one at 451 and didn't go full "big bore and stroke" to keep it comparable

[@davidjohnson8474]

I have a 455 Pontiac with those 6x heads! With stock cam

[@davidjohnson8474]

I would love love to have a set of RamAir V heads on it and make just sick power! But they are insanely expensive for orginal ones but some people are repops of them. Maybe one day I'll find some. Oh ya mine is in a 71 lemans sport

[@LucoreAuto]

Actually doing a video on a 71 LeMans sport next week! Have a green one as my "fair weather driver" and show car! :)

[@LucoreAuto]

They are very capable in their stock form and can obviously support some serious power. As you can see in the before and after graph though even a somewhat mild aftermarket cam can REALLY wake it up!

[@davidjohnson8474]

@@LucoreAuto very cool! Don't see many of them. The header should be fiberglass!

[@VDykes]

so new cam and springs and you have valve float ???? that = weak springs = valves not staying closed . so i would test the springs at installed height and check to cam spec pressure before i run an engine . in all my 40 years of building engines never had one that would not go to 6000 rpm's making power all the way. and the weep hole on the water pump is to point down not to the right of the block.

[@LucoreAuto]

The water pump has indexed bolt holes so it physically CAN'T go straight down. There's a shelf on the pump to move any drips away from straight down onto the belts/pulleys. There's literally not another way to install that waterpump. You are almost correct in your assessment, the valves ARE floating and not staying closed but it's not due to weak springs. The ultimate answer to combating valve float isn't always throw a bigger spring at it or you'll wipe out that fresh new camshaft you just installed. There are factors on the OTHER side of the equation that are causing the float. Which will likely be addressed in a future video of the 451 ;)