Big, Loud, and Proud! System76's Adder Workstation 3 (8 Months Later)

[@jaakkohintsala2597]

The fact that they neuter the IME is the best thing about this manufacturer in my opinion

[@mmstick]

Workstation laptops have always been loud and hot. After all, the mobile cooling system has to manage the heat generated by a desktop CPU/GPU drawing up to 280W of power. You should switch to the battery profile if you don't need to use the system at full power.

[@Trafotin]

I did use the power-saving profile in all use cases and could not get a discernible improvement except with tlp. I'm more than willing to blame Nvidia because I agree graphics cards are power hungry.

[@tostadorafuriosa69]

​@@Trafotin also on linux for now you cant deactivate it

[@unicatte]

I don't think the sticker implies you can't remove RAM to keep your warranty. It implies you can't remove the sticker from the RAM.

[@mikeinal5521]

IME disablement is the primary reason I would consider getting a System 76 machine. And I wouldn't trust anything Microsoft tells me.

[@Trafotin]

Except you can read the documents and they back up their claims pretty reliably. The talks I showed are from Lennart Pottering (creator of systemd), Richard Brown (Chair of openSUSE), and Matthew Garrett (long time advocate for secure hardware on Linux, used to work at Red Hat/Google). The industry is moving in this direction and this is what people need to keep in mind when purchasing, never mind the volatility of Microsoft forcing people to use NPUs.

[@mmstick]

@@Trafotin The NSA does not agree. They worked with Intel to add a property to disable the ME to prevent possible side-channel attacks on their equipment. They explicitly request hardware vendors to disable ME at the factory when they're purchasing new hardware. Vulnerabilities are frequently found in the ME, which can be mitigated by simply not exposing the ME at all. Such as CVE-2017-5705 through CVE-2017-5712. A quote from Intel: "In response to requests from customers with specialized requirements, we sometimes explore the modification or disabling of certain features. In this case, the modifications were made at the request of equipment manufacturers in support of their customer’s evaluation of the U.S. government’s “High Assurance Platform” program"

[@WolfiiDog13]

I wish System76 was avilable in my country, their loptops look so good

[@deersakamoto2167]

9:50 fan noise - oh I remember when I bought a Lemur laptop from System76 years ago and the fan noise was atrocious. That experience was so bad that now I only use (admittedly less-powerful) fanless machines. I very occasionally play games on Switch but I never game on my PC so that helps.

[@ccf_1004]

MAN that laptop has a lot of cores...

[@Blender-3D-Guides]

Is this good for 3D modeling and rendering in Blender 3D? I read that POP!_OS is quite compatible with Nvidia graphics cards.

[@Trafotin]

I use DaVinci Resolve for editing and Nvidia performance is pretty reliant on your distro. I use uBlue's Bluefin right now, but was using normal Fedora when this was recorded.

[@mohamad20zx34]

congrats on supporting system76 Mr Matt

[@Just_Add_Coffee]

I got a System76 Thelio Major r4 with an AMD 7950X CPU and a Radeon 6700XT around the same time you got the Adder. Zero complaints with System76 or the machine itself, though I've had some weirdness here and there that I suspect has to do with the Linux kernel itself. Oh ... and I didn't get a t-shirt or even stickers😢

[@afrofantom6631]

the last one is a travesty

[@Trafotin]

That is weird. It was a promotional deal thing when I was doing it and they sent me the full package. They don't even know about my channel, so no reason for preferential treatment. Maybe it was only for the laptops.

[@dariuszc47]

How’s the battery life & heat on the AMD variant?

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

You have no idea how happy your review made me. I got an unexpected but very much wanted proof that you can run DaVinci Resolve on Leenux. I been using it on an old Mac I have, and fell in love with that editor (though I hate with a passion it does not accept WEBM video as source..... and perhaps h265 MP4?). Something I've been worried about is now gone. Another thing is of course honesty. Though I will probably never be on the receiving end of those flaws. My perfect screen is a matte 144 RGB 1080p. I only wish when I pull the trigger, they still have a 17 inch model with such a screen.

[@Trafotin]

Resolve accepts WEBM, but not H264 on the free version. If you use Studio (I do), it works fine. But if you are happy using Mac, I'd recommend bumping it up when Apple announces whatever the newest M-series Pro (M4 Pro?) is. If not, probably buy a different computer. You will get your money's worth and security somewhere else.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@Trafotin I assume that was a mistake on your part, about the formats. If paid version accepts WEBM, then great. And yes, free accepts h264.

[@Trafotin]

On Mac, Resolve accepts H264 because Apple coughs up a license fee to Via LA Licensing, the patent squatting body that controls H264 and the sole reason AV1 has been pushed so heavily as of late. Since Linux doesn't pay the extortion fee, Resolve's lawyers probably determined Linux (servers) cannot get it because they need to pay in some form, thus why it works on Studio on Linux, but not the free version on Linux.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@Trafotin I thought it does not exist on Linux, and it's being emulated through WINE.

[@tomcollingwood5300]

Huge thanks for this video - it allowed me to finally come to a decision after going back and forth for days. System76 not quite there yet for me. Cheers!

[@unLinuxeroMas]

wich program do you use for editing

[@Trafotin]

DaVinci Resolve. I said so in the video.

[@unLinuxeroMas]

@@Trafotin ups sorry

[@OcteractSG]

The boot and EFI partitions require root to write to, so you’d already be screwed if an attacker can comprise your through the boot process. Secure Boot was made to be used in tandem with antivirus, as it prevents malware from running before the antivirus and establishing persistence through primacy. Being unable to password-protect the firmware is an issue, though, because that feature can mitigate physical access threats. Everything else is simply defense in depth; it’s good to have for the sake of stopping zero-days, but not absolutely necessary to have a secure device. IME may introduce its own vulnerabilities, and System76 has announced disabling it a couple of times for that reason. But maybe I’m mistaken or missing something important. Let me know.

[@mmstick]

ME is disabled due to security risk from firmware vulnerabilities, and demand for systems with ME disabled in the factory firmware. It is much the same reason that we use systemd-boot in Pop instead of GRUB. It's one of the reasons why we want open firmware. There is less surface area for vulnerabilities to exploit. Most systems in the wild today are vulnerable to the ME firmware exploits in one form or another. It's not necessary to continue running the ME after the system has initialized, so we disable it.

[@Trafotin]

I can sympathize with the historical vulnerabilities of the ME, but even if you disable ME, the firmware is still missing Boot Guard and other certifications. I said in the video 99% of people will not care, but computer users are left guessing because Microsoft has a proclivity for making really crazy hardware decisions. Boot Guard and Pluton work on Linux and I personally classify that as a higher priority than disabling the ME. In an ideal world, both are accomplished, but much of the space is filled purely people purchasing disabled ME machines out of paranoia rather than looking into it.

[@danielayalajr]

I have the System 76 Serval WS. How do you run Steam AAA games on Linux? I am thinking I would need to install Windows 11 on another partition to play Steam games because of the anti cheat.

[@Trafotin]

I've had issues with System76 and Windows. While it meets the Windows 11 requirements, the touchpad frequently stops working. Apparently it's a bigger problem with Intel/Clevo that has not been sorted out with Microsoft. On games, I use the Steam Flatpak (probably the wrong thing to do), Heroic, and Lutris for my offline GOG collection. Nowadays, the process is seamless, provided the game doesn't have intrusive anti-cheat (Destiny 2, COD, Rainbow Six Siege), bad DRM (Ubisoft's combo of their in-house stuff and VMProtect has caused problems in the past but I think it's been resolved), or the outdated Linux ports of Shadow of Mordor or the Witcher 2 for example.

[@Omkuskom]

how is the laptop holding as of 8 more months later?

[@Trafotin]

It's an okay laptop, but there's better security and prices awaiting you in off the shelf laptops. I don't recommend it, but not too broken up about it.

[@Omkuskom]

@Trafotin thanks!

[@igorgiuseppe1862]

music name at the end ?

[@Trafotin]

See the description or my website for a track listing.

[@notkudu]

nice video but why the laptop is so oily 8:53

[@JohnDoe-jk3vv]

Yogurt

[@Trafotin]

just touching it smears off my skin

[@RogueRen]

Wait you stream? Where to?

[@Trafotin]

Like 2 times? Just here.

[@nicholastoo858]

1080, I remember when those used to be equivalent to 4080 today.

[@yaroslav7328]

They say that TLP doesn't work on Fedora as intended: - Power saving profiles are not applied when switching from AC to battery (or vice versa) - The Radio Device Wizard does not work - Trace mode does not work How did you get it to work?

[@Trafotin]

Who is "they?"

[@yaroslav7328]

@@Trafotin Official documentation.

[@typrovoost7640]

I do not speak geek or talk tech but I understood learned, and appreciate your input on the safeguards of the intel boot process. I’ve watched a few reviews now on the system and this was unique and good info to learn. Thank you!

[@Atomic-Purple-Guy]

they have a 96 gig ram option. thats a lot of ram especially for Linux.

[@Trafotin]

You can swap out RAM for 32/64 GB sticks on a normal laptop or desktop.

[@jjcoolaus]

In 2024 the Adder WS is $2012 USD with the upgrades mentioned in the video

[@Trafotin]

Inflation unfortunately exists. As I said, this is a stop gap and the end of Windows 10 and the NPU craze might be when I consider rebuilding my desktop.

[@jjcoolaus]

@@Trafotin if system76 wasn't so expensive compared to local laptop builders in my country (Australia) then I'd buy one

[@jamonmang6099]

Subscribed because i like your style.

[@typrovoost7640]

I know nothing …about Linux and am transitioning over - looking at Oryx or Serval as I think I need a graphics card for AI…I know nothing! BUT….I went to configure a DELL XPS with Linux…..and there is no other option than to get (and pay $500 extra for the disabled Intel thingy…..and you can’t get Linux without this feature on Dell XPS (which I really like because of touch screen…but I hear Linux doesn’t work with touch well). So…yeah…don’t know what is going on with this Intel boot security feature….but I will now look into because of you. Thanks!!!

[@Trafotin]

Cons of the Dell XPS is I've seen motherboard/fan failures after a few years. Alienware (owned by Dell) is an option, but I don't know where they stand. Intel EVO devices have to meet specific certifications for business and AFAIK the Latitude and XPS have EVO versions with Windows 11 Pro. I have 2 friends running Linux on MSI machines, but I haven't used them personally.

[@MrMoneyHelper]

I would buy from System 76 just because they AREN'T Microsux or Apple or Google. I haven't decided if I will need a laptop or desktop. This is solely because I don't know where I'll be living in six months. If traveling will be happening, I'll go for a laptop.

[@xexat]

Why didn't you mention framework laptops? I'm not saying you should or shouldn't buy one just curious why you didn't bring them up

[@Omonarc]

Framework is still a relatively small company and even if you want a 16, they're backordered to Q3 at the earliest. It's hard to draw a comparison when you can't buy the competition. (Note: I have a Framework Laptop 16)

[@Trafotin]

Humble brag. In all seriousness, I would think about it, but I need GPU power and a gaming laptop felt like a better choice. Plus Framework 16's so expensive! 😭

[@xexat]

@@Trafotin that's fair, was just surprised they weren't mentioned at all like you did with the Librem laptops

[@Omonarc]

@@TrafotinI will grant you that it is expensive, but it does have the GPU that you can upgrade later down the line. There's also the solid iGPU in the AMD processor if you want to go without the dGPU to save some money now and get it later.

[@paladingeorge6098]

The problem with the Intel Management Engine is that it has/had some major security exploits that can't be patched out with software updates (I have had to disable it on a lot of older systems for that reason). Its not a conspiracy to be worried about known exploits. Hardware backed disk encryption absolutely is important, but forcing it down normal users' throats at the cost of their data integrity is the reason nobody wants it. Some people (including myself) strongly believe that its a strength of Linux to be able to take an existing install on one system and swap the drive to another in the event of system failure.

[@Trafotin]

Security should not only be forced onto people, it should be the default. If you don't like it, turn it off. You can absolutely swap a drive with TPM, just take precautions to disable it before you do. If people are going to spread FUD about something and don't present any proof, I'm less likely to listen to those cases. Right now, the ME is necessary for basic security features, default in Windows 11 and supported on Linux.

[@paladingeorge6098]

​@@Trafotin The issue with enabling TPM and disk encryption by default is that most normal users who don't know don't care about the cybersecurity zeitgeist aren't going save their bitlocker keys and most don't even back up their data. I had a laptop a few years ago that got borked because of a WINDOWS UPDATE and because I ignored the popup to backup the bitlocker key when I first setup the laptop I had to re-image the drive. Thankfully, I didn't have anything important on that laptop but that device came OTB setup with bitlocker enabled. The problem I have with these decisions isn't with the technology itself or the use thereof but the fact these massive corporations like Microsoft think they know best for you. Sure, everyone SHOULD have full disk encryption and regularly backup their files and keep every password and encryption key they have ever made hand written in a notebook locked away someplace safe...but most people don't. Its a big ask to expect people not involved in the zeitgeist to conform their workflow to "best practices" especially when the cost of being ignorant is all the data on your computer.

[@Sithhy]

30 day Solus distro challenge? It's also a rolling release

[@Trafotin]

They only issue updates on a Friday, which is just ridiculous. On top of that, they disappeared for over a year and only started doing stuff again recently. You can't just abandon your users like this and this isn't the first time this has happened with them, because the same thing happened when Ikey (now runs Serpent OS) ghosted them for months and left the project. SUSE Tumbleweed or Fedora would be a better pick.

[@Sithhy]

@@Trafotin I don't want to be *the* "akshually" guy but I have to correct you a little. I've been running Solus on my media laptop for over 4 years at this point & I have only positive things to say about the distro itself. While yes, it's true that they do issue updates on fridays, it's not the whole story; they do issue updates on other days of the week as well but only if it's smaller stuff, like a few packages they just had to update to not break functionality etc. where as fridays are usually reserved for the big updates with 1GB+ in size (you can often find Discord having an update on a random week day). As for them leaving their community abandoned, it's true & that time sucked as there were no OS updates but they were gone for 3 months, not a year like you say. After them coming back with better management & staff, I have to say that Solus never felt better like it does now, you can feel the entire distro & people involved with it "run smoother" overall & the updates are plenty. Since the 4 years ago that I installed Solus, I have never doubted it & will continue using it in the future as it's just *the* distro for me as it has a bright future even if it is an underdog

[@mikepond8898]

@Trafotin. Off topic but do you think SUSE Slow Roll is a good concept?

[@JG-nm9zk]

What good is a rolling release if it doesn't have any packages?

[@GKahla]

radical opinion: the KZbinr who erased his DE shouldn't be allowed to use anything but a commercial OS. he's just not willing to do the digging and research.

[@Trafotin]

But he did and went to a bungled Arch Linux wannabe...

[@rochr4]

SeKurity muppet show :p

[@BlogingLP]

Things like TPM and IME are just monopolistic measures so the user (who owns the laptop btw, not the megacorps) can't run alternative OS's like Linux and knowing they want to lock the user out of their Hard and software so yeah I am with System76 on this one because both are just (TPM and IME) is just proprietary bullshit which seeks to impair my way of using my hard and software how I see fit while at the same time are anti user because when I buy a laptop it is MY laptop not the laptop of M$ or Intel.

[@Trafotin]

Guess you better drop the other proprietary hardware in your computer too. Tough caboodles, but IME and TPM are part of modern hardware security. In the age of Windows 11 and trusted computing, the downsides of potentially being hacked by your ME are far outweighed by the security benefits. It's all been supported on Linux for years.

[@tostadorafuriosa69]

wbqt do you mean? You can install linux on any machine with this

[@davey820051]

Maybe hire a hand model without nail fungus / psoriasis / gang hand tattoos so they don't have to wear gloves.

[@Trafotin]

Actually, I am a severe burn victim and need special treatment in removing my gloves, thank you very much Dave.

[@davey820051]

My apologies.

[@liefhebber6277]

not cool dude

[@chomskyan4life]

I am not a fan of System 76 at all. Their OS always breaks for me, most Clevo laptops (including the P775TM1-G I am currently using) used to provide replaceable GPUs and desktop class CPUs, and I don't like their overpricing stuff. Neither am I a fan of the name, it's implications or the way these guys approach Linux in general. But that laptop seems to be a very capable machine.

[@Trafotin]

They aren't overpricing as much as you are supporting their work for desktop Linux and the labor for their American workers. There's a reason most companies resort to outsourcing their work.

[@chomskyan4life]

@@Trafotin Really? How much of their profit is passed on to these so-called "American workers"? How much of a decision making power do these "American workers" have in the company? What about those "American workers" who do not want to be associated with genocidal 76 connotation in the name? Don't try to pass off capitalist posturing as some sort of social agenda. System 76 is a racket. Just like every other corporation. What makes them extra scummy is the posturing. No thanks. I will buy a normal laptop and install GNU/Linux myself. Hell, I will use Windows 11 with all its telemetry before I give a single cent to System 76.